May 4,
2017
GOVERNMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE
Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Mark Browne, MHA for Placentia West – Bellevue,
substitutes for Neil King, MHA for Bonavista.
Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Tracey Perry, MHA for Fortune Bay – Cape La Hune,
substitutes for Steve Kent, MHA for Mount Pearl North.
The
Committee met at approximately 6 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.
CHAIR (Finn):
Good evening everyone and
welcome.
My name
is John Finn; I'm the MHA for Stephenville. I'll be filling in as Chair this
evening for Mr. Edmunds.
Also
this evening we have substituting – Mr. Browne is substituting for Mr. King; Ms.
Perry is substituting for Mr. Kent.
The
first order of business will be to accept a motion to adopt the minutes of the
Government Services Committee as just distributed, the minutes from a meeting of
April 11.
Can I
have a motion to accept the minutes?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So moved.
CHAIR:
Moved by Mr. Hutchings;
seconded by Ms. Haley.
Thank
you.
On
motion, minutes adopted as circulated.
CHAIR:
First of all this evening
we're going to start with the Public Service Commission and we just ask that
Members be patient with us as we exchange staff. There are three departments
that will be dealt with here this evening.
So with
respect to the Public Service Commission, we'll start with the minister with
some opening remarks.
Shall
1.1.01 carry?
Minister Bennett.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Thank you.
I think
if it's okay with the Members of the Committee, I'll just take a moment to
introduce the officials that are here. So maybe we'll start with the deputy – or
sorry, we'll start with you, Bruce.
MR. HOLLETT:
Thanks.
Bruce
Hollett, Chair and CEO of the Public Service Commission.
MR. SMYTH:
Mike Smyth, Manager of Appointments and Accountability, Public Service
Commission.
MS. TRICKETT:
Wanda Trickett, Departmental Controller.
MS. C. BENNETT:
For Members of the
Committee, you'd be aware that the Public Service Commission, or as it is
referred to as the PSC, it is the arm's-length agency that supports government's
efforts to be accountable and transparent by ensuring that hiring for public
service positions and appointments to agencies, boards and commissions are based
on merit. The PSC has a legislated mandate for staffing policy and oversight of
the staffing process to ensure fairness and open opportunity in government
hiring and appointments and to provide a highly qualified, non-partisan public
service for government and the people of the province.
In
addition to its role in staffing and appointments, the PSC also administers and
chairs classification appeal processes, administers the
Conflict of Interest Act, provides
Employee Assistance and Respectful Workplace programs for public sector
employees, administers the ABC, or agency, board and commission application and
merit-assessment process and provides support to the Independent Appointments
Commission, or the IAC. The integrity and impartiality required to properly
deliver on its mandate is enhanced by the neutral and independent nature and the
reputation of the PSC.
With
that, Mr. Chair, the heading 1.1.01, I'll leave it to you.
CHAIR:
Okay. Thank you, Minister
Bennett.
We'll
now turn to the Committee. Before we listen to any opening remarks, I'll kindly
ask that you take a moment, if you can, to introduce yourself to the minister's
staff.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Keith Hutchings, MHA,
District of Ferryland.
MS. DRODGE:
Megan Drodge, Researcher
with the Official Opposition caucus.
MS. PERRY:
Tracey Perry, MHA, Fortune
Bay – Cape La Hune.
MS. MICHAEL:
Lorraine Michael, MHA, St.
John's East – Quidi Vidi.
MR. MORGAN:
Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP
caucus.
MS. HALEY:
Carol Anne Haley, MHA, Burin
– Grand Bank.
MR. BROWNE:
Mark Browne, MHA, Placentia
West – Bellevue.
MS. PARSLEY:
Betty Parsley, MHA, Harbour
Main.
CHAIR:
Thank you very much.
We'll
turn to Mr. Hutchings for any opening remarks.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, I'll start off with some line items; 01, Salaries. I noticed Salaries
– what was estimated in the 2016-2017 budget was exceeded. Then, in 2017-2018,
the estimate is again lower than what the original estimate was in 2016-2017.
I'm just wondering if I could have some explanation in regard to that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sure.
The
increase in the projected revised for '16-'17 would have been driven – I think
it's $49,700. That would have been increased as a result of retirement costs
that were paid to three employees in 2016-2017 totalling $141,000 for the
retirement amounts. That's one of the reasons for the difference.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So those three positions,
Minister, are they related to – I'm trying to remember – the 450 FTEs that were
announced in last year's budget?
MS. C. BENNETT:
These would have been
retirements.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Retirements, okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you.
If we
go to Employee Benefits, I guess that's under the bigger envelope here, but last
year the budget amount was not used, there's a small difference there. What
would that have been?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sorry, just for clarity, are
you asking about the decrease from $6,600 to $2,700?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes, from the estimate and
from the actual.
MS. C. BENNETT:
So that decrease was from
the reduced cost by restricting participation in conferences and deferring some
employee training.
The
Public Service Commission – and I'll ask the CEO to correct me if I happen to
speak incorrectly – when their budget is approved, because they're a stand-alone
independent organization, they have to make sure they take their full envelope
for the year, and they have to manage it throughout the year because they don't
have the opportunity to come to Treasury Board looking for additional funding.
So they have to be stand alone.
In this
case, there was $3,900 less spent on travel. The reason the increase then is at
$7,600 over $6,600 reflects the requirements as per the departmental zero-based
budgeting submission.
I can
get Bruce to speak to that if you'd like.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure.
MR. HALLETT:
Yes, as the minister said, we put a very tight rein on anything we would
consider to be controllable costs last year because it became evident very early
in the year that we were going to be running into trouble with respect to our
EAP spending which is, of course, an open-ended program or a demand-driven
program. So we basically held back on everything that we could.
In
terms of the money for next year being up by $1,000, that's based on the
professional requirements for our EAP counsellors in terms of what they do. The
things we deferred last year, we have to do this year in terms of keeping their
accreditations, et cetera, up to where they need to be.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So that would be related to
certification of EAP counsellors.
MR. HALLETT:
And ongoing professional development for them to make sure they're up to date in
terms of alternative dispute resolution, all those things that they have to be
on top of.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. So it wouldn't be
related to the utilization of EAP or how many EAP. This is just related to
certification –
MR. HALLETT:
Correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
– career development, those
kinds of things?
MR. HALLETT:
Correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
Down below on Transportation and Communications, the budget
amount was not used there last year. I think it was $14,300 was unused, and then
this year it was bumped up again. There is an increase there. Could you just
give us some details on that?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
So the
decrease in the Transportation and Communications from last year was that the
travel activity, as Bruce has indicated, was severely restricted to essential
travel only. The Independent Appointments Commission met regularly throughout
the year and the EARWP continues to provide training intervention services
across the province, but travel was certainly restricted. I think the travel for
the IAC came in less than?
MR. HOLLETT:
Yeah, we didn't have any experience of course with the IAC prior to last year,
so we wanted to make sure that we had enough for them. Again, because of the
pressures on EAP costs, we deferred whatever we could in the way of travel,
including Respectful Workplace and EAP training that they would normally go out
and do across the province. We deferred some of that until this year.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, so the transportation
costs for the Independent Appointments Commission members would be included in
this line item?
MR. HOLLETT:
Yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
And in 2016-2017, what were
the actual travel costs for the Independent Appointments Commission?
MR. HOLLETT:
It would have been in the vicinity of $15,000.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
$15,000?
MR. HOLLETT:
Right.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
In your projections for
2017-2018, has that projection increased or is it somewhat status quo when you
went through the zero-based budgeting process?
MR. HOLLETT:
We would have estimated about $20,000 for them because it would be a full year
where it was not a full year last year.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
If I
could go to Professional Services, the budget exceeded from the Estimate last
year and we look at the revised. What would that be for in regards to that
increase?
MS. C. BENNETT:
That would have been as a
result of the increase in Employee Assistance and the increased uptake. The
uptake would have been driven from a number of things related to personal
situations that employees found themselves in, personal situations that their
spouses and family members found them in. That was what drove the Professional
Services increase in '16-'17. In '17-'18, the Public Service Commission
requested that increase be carried into their budget to reflect that as well.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
What we're looking at here
in regards to EAP, that would have been contracted services as well as in-house
or would it just have been all contract?
MS. C. BENNETT:
My understanding is that the
first intake is done at the Public Service Commission.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure.
MS. C. BENNETT:
And should an individual
need or require to be referred to somebody outside the PSC, counsellors will
provide that.
Bruce,
I don't know if you want to add anymore texture to that?
MR. HOLLETT:
No, that's exactly right,
Minister. We do the initial intake or the triage, if you will. Then we put them
out to whatever counsellors in the community are best suited to handle the
particular issue that people are presenting with.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
This
line item here, would the majority of that be for EAP services?
MR. HOLLETT:
Virtually all of it.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Virtually all of it. Okay.
I see
there's a small increase in Estimate for 2017-2018. It's not a line item, but
certainly in regard to the budget amount do you foresee an increase in regard to
EAP services or status quo? What's your thought in terms of going forward this
year?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Well, the department or the
PSC is going to end the year for fiscal '16-'17 with increased expenses of about
$131,000 related to the Employee Assistance Program.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
What we've done is we've
made the allowance for $150,000 so that, again, to provide, as I said earlier,
an opportunity for the PSC to be able to do its work. Because it doesn't have
the opportunity to come and look for support from other departments, it has to
stand alone on its own. So we wanted to make sure that the PSC was properly
resourced, particularly, with sensitivity to the need for Employee Assistance
Program availability.
Of the
$150,000 there was also $5,000 in the Professional Services that was identified
under zero-based budgeting. That nets the $145,000 increase.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Under
Revenue – Provincial there's a revised number for 2016-2017. I'm just curious,
this $4,900, what would that be?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah, that was the recovery
of a duplicate payment recovery.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
As well, recovery from the
English school board. The PSC will support the English school board with EAP
services, should it be necessary, but it's on a cost-recovery basis. The school
board would then – and it would be booked as revenue.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Minister, you referenced the fact that the Public Service in its budget envelope
wouldn't go back during the year, I guess, to Treasury Board or the government
to increase that envelope. On the line here, Total: Services to Government and
Agencies, the budget for 2016-2017 Estimate was $2.482 million. The revised was
$2.650 million. Where would that increase come from if they couldn't go back to
government for that?
MS. C. BENNETT:
On the total? I spoke in
error because the $130,000 for the EAP was an approved item for the Treasury
Board, so just to clarify that for the Member opposite.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
They did come into Treasury
Board and ask.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So during the year they
would have been back for EAP and looked for an increase.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes, and it would have been
a directive.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Thank
you.
Mr.
Chair, if somebody else wants to ask a question, they can.
CHAIR:
Sure. Thank you.
Ms.
Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Chair.
I don't
have any questions for the line items but I do have some general questions.
Minister, first looking at the description of what the mandate and what the PSC
is tasked with, it has responsibility for establishing and enforcing policy for
the protection of the merit principle in recruitment and selection within the
public service. And that's fine, but I'm wondering if any thought is being put
into bringing in other principles such as the equity principle, and not just
gender equity, people with disabilities, race, et cetera. Because it seems to
me, it's at this point where we need to have that principle in and I'm wondering
if any thought has been given to that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I certainly appreciate the
Member opposite's thoughts and opinions on that. Any work that government is
undertaking to look at policies like that, I don't have the information to share
in Estimates.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Maybe we can get that
in another way outside of Estimates, maybe sitting down with people who are
working on the policy and get some information on that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you.
And
with regard to the EAPs, is a record kept of – certainly the numbers are being
kept – the different areas that people are requiring the service?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'll let the CEO speak, but
I would suggest that at a minimum, for privacy reasons, although the Commission
may keep records to be able to forecast what it needs in actual supports,
particularly in skill sets, as Bruce as indicated for the individuals that may
be triaged when they come in, I would suggest for privacy reasons that type of
information wouldn't be kept, but I'll turn it over to you, Bruce.
MS. MICHAEL:
I'm only thinking about
numbers. I certainly wouldn't want to know names or departments even but if
there are some that have to do with sexual harassment, different things, I don't
see a privacy issue there, but I'll wait to hear Mr. Hollett's explanation.
MR. HOLLETT:
We track the intake numbers very, very carefully and monitor the overall usage
and look at what proportion of the public service is using EAP from one year to
the next. Very early in the year we can tell, based on the intake numbers,
whether we project that we're going to have a budgetary issue for that year.
With
respect to the types of issues that people present with when they come to EAP,
we also track that very closely from the perspective of making sure, number one,
that our own staff have the right skill sets to deal with that and, secondly,
that we have the right supports in terms of the providers that we use out in the
community.
If
we're running into a new and particular issue, certainly in the addictions area,
for example, then we may find that we need to find more counsellors, not just in
the St. John's area but in other areas of the province as well to help us deal
with that. But we track that.
Ms.
Michael, overall, I think when we look at the types of issues that people
present with, there are no substantial changes from one year to the next in the
last three or four years that I can put my finger on to say that one area has
become particularly challenging, except perhaps in the addictions area.
MS. MICHAEL:
So it's –
MR. HOLLETT:
But it's more anecdotal in terms of us understanding what the needs are in the
community and making sure that we're able to deal with those as they come in.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Is that information
that is collated and could be shared?
MR. HOLLETT:
We do maintain statistics
with respect to overall usage in terms of the numbers of people that we intake
every year. I'm not aware that we keep statistics as such in terms of the issues
that people are presenting with.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you.
Minister, I think last year when we went through this we learned that there was
a backlog in classification appeals. Where do things stand right now with
backlogs?
MR. HOLLETT:
We are making our way
through the backlog. It was a very large backlog on the management appeals.
We're making good progress with it. We're not through the backlog but we are
plowing through them.
MS. MICHAEL:
Well, there are other types
of appeals as well, obviously. Is there a backlog there as well?
MR. HOLLETT:
The other types of appeals
that we would see would be people coming with staffing appeals, that they don't
like the outcome of the staffing action. But we don't have a backlog with those.
We're usually able to deal with those very, very quickly.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you.
Minister, I'm just wondering, how have things gone with the IAC and has the
Public Service Commission been able to keep up with – is there extra workload, I
guess I should ask first of all, and is there enough staffing, if there is, to
keep up with that?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I think the volunteer
members of the IAC certainly would indicate that the staff in the PSC has been
very supportive and very helpful. I think they've worked on new processes and
systems to be able to move through the volume of activity that they've had to
do. If you think about it as a start-up entity that had to kind of create the
processes in-house, there was certainly a lot of collaboration between staff and
the PSC and collaboration from the volunteer members.
There's
no doubt that the volume of positions, particularly because we were just coming
out of a former administration into a new administration, positions had been
vacant for a period of time. The IAC is working very diligently to provide
recommendations and I think they would say they've been making progress.
We've
also seen progress and activity changes in recruitment activity. Certainly, this
is continuous. Any time you try to recruit volunteers of individuals to sit and
serve the public, you want to make sure you are encouraging people from broadly
across the province to participate, from every corner of the province, and
certainly the PSC has taken a number of initiatives with a number of different
departments to kind of support the work that the volunteer committee does. We've
seen some really good results, I think, from some of the inflow of resumes that
has been coming in.
The
committee, as you may or may not be aware, there are five members and they split
into two groups of three to deal with particular recruitment activities. So for
that reason, they're able to share some of the workload. And we continue to look
for feedback from the committee on things we can go to improve. We'll certainly
be working on continuous improvement activities to make sure that the IAC
operations and the results meet the expectation of Bill 1.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
Minister, could we have, I guess not an explanation so much, but give us an idea
of all the different ways in which the positions are advertised.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes. Bruce, do you want to
speak to that?
MR. HOLLETT:
First of all, we post all of the opportunities on the appointments website,
which is linked right off government's website. Depending on the nature of the
position, periodically we'll have Mr. Wells put out a press release announcing
that we are recruiting for a particular opportunity.
We use
Twitter very extensively. We found that to be quite helpful. We reach out to
different industry organizations. Or if we're looking for lawyers we'll reach
out to the Law Society, we'll have them promote it to their members. We reach
out to the Institute of Corporate Directors and have them promote it with their
members.
Also,
every time we do recruitment for a particular board, we'll talk to the
department or entity involved and ask them to provide us with a list of their
stakeholders. Then, we will do our best to reach out to those stakeholder groups
to have them promoted amongst their members.
We
typically do as much of that as we possibly can to try and generate interest in
people putting their names into the process and going to the application portal,
having a look and seeing if there's anything there that interests them in terms
of a board opportunity.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'll just add that the
Women's Policy Office has also supported the efforts of the PSC to make sure
that we are communicating in places that may be non-traditional to encourage
women from across the province to participate as well. We're continuing to put
very serious effort into that.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
Just
one more question, if I may ask it. He's saying no, so I'm going to go ahead.
The
Respectful Workplace Program is still in place, no changes?
OFFICIAL:
Yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you very much.
That's
all from me, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Ms. Michael.
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you.
Minister, in regard to the Independent Appointments Commission, the only cost
incurred by government overall, is that the cost of travel and any services that
are used by the Public Service to assist the Independent Appointments
Commission?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Administrative services to
support the committee would be housed and coordinated through the PSC. All of
the PSC materials – paper, whatever they would need to go through the day-to-day
activity that they do, is supported through the PSC and the PSC's budget. So
there's no interaction with any other agency, board, commission or government
department by the IAC that I'm aware of.
MR. HOLLETT:
No, that's correct. The only other potential cost is if, for example, a
particular organization for which we are recruiting, maybe a CEO wanted to do a
national advertising campaign, then that would be paid by the department itself
or the entity itself, but we have not had any of that yet.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
These
are all volunteers, right, so there's no per diem or anything paid when they
sit?
MR. HOLLETT:
Right.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
I don't
know if you have it now, but could we get a list of the independent appointment
reviews, how many have been done for positions in government, how many referrals
have been done to Cabinet and to a minister?
MR. HOLLETT:
I can give you some of those numbers right now, if you want.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure.
MR. HOLLETT:
In terms of the activity so far, over 1,100 individuals have applied. We've had
about 2,500 applications, because some of them have applied for multiple boards.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure.
MR. HOLLETT:
So far between the IAC for tier one and the PSC for tier two, we've processed 48
different board opportunities in terms of completing them through to the
recommendation stage. We've done three CEO positions that have been complete,
and those have been sent through to the recommendation and appointments made to
those.
We have
another 87 boards in play at the moment for which we are recruiting both IAC and
the tier two ones that are done with the PSC, and we've got three executive
recruitments that are ongoing now that are not complete yet. So it's been quite
busy.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So there are 48 that have
been completed and appointed?
MR. HOLLETT:
Forty-eight for which recommendations have been sent.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLETT:
I mean, that would include right up to last week, for example, in terms of
recommendations sent. Not all of those appointments are made yet, but 48
recommendations so far.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
No, fair enough.
Are you
aware of any recommendations that have been rejected?
MR. HOLLETT:
All of the appointments that have been made so far have been directly from the
recommendation lists that were sent by the IAC and the PSC, without exception.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, thank you.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sorry, if I might.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
No, go ahead.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I would just add that when
the Independent Appointments Commission began its work, the volunteer board held
a series of meetings planning strategic planning days with staff at the PSC. I
was invited to attend and, as part of that, we had significant discussion about
the expectation that the recommendations coming from the committee would feed
into the Cabinet decision-making process and I made a commitment to the members
of the volunteer board, just as we had made in the legislation, that the
recommendations from the Independent Appointments Commission would be those that
Cabinet would consider.
I just
wanted to add that to Mr. Hollett's confirmation, that's been what's happening.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Minister, is there a wait time – I don't know if you covered this or not, I'm
just curious – for EAP? What that wait time would be now?
MR. HOLLETT:
No, there's no wait time.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, no wait time.
Thank
you.
There
was an attrition plan started in 2015. I know we talked about it last year as
well. Is that still being pursued by the public service?
MS. C. BENNETT:
The salary dollars that we
talked about, and the former administration had put in as attrition, all those
salary dollars had already been taken out by the budget that you guys had done
in 2015.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes.
MS. C. BENNETT:
The staffing changes that
would have been made since then would have been based on the analysis of what's
been going on in different departments and in this particular entity.
Bruce,
is there anything that you want to speak to specifically about your staffing?
MR. HOLLETT:
With respect to staffing levels at the PSC, we had 18 people last year at the
PSC, including one temporary and one part time. This year we have 17; one
temporary and one part time.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Last year, I know in
our discussion, you indicated there was a vacant position that would support the
Independent Appointments Commission.
MR. HOLLETT:
Yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Is that person the only
person that still supports the Independent Appointments Commission or are others
because your numbers have dropped from 18 to 17? So I guess –
MR. HOLLETT:
The drop from 18 to 17 is not related to the Independent Appointments
Commission.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLETT:
We have two people who support the IAC process almost full time, not quite full
time, and there are probably three others of us who spend varying amounts of
time on support to the Independent Appointments Commission. The one position
reduced was in investigations.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. They would be
investigations related to what?
MR. HOLLETT:
They would be general investigations throughout government. Whether those would
be harassment investigations, et cetera.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLETT:
Human Resource Secretariat has primary responsibility for investigations. The
PSC had an investigator position there for years. Essentially, it was we would
help when needed.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLETT:
Through the restructuring
process, that entire responsibility was given to or left with the Human Resource
Secretariat. We did not have primary responsibility at all.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
One of
the functions in the description for the Public Service Commission is support
the Conflict of Interest Advisory Committee. Who chairs that committee?
MR. HOLLETT:
I do.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, so who else would be
on that committee?
MR. HOLLETT:
The committee members would
include an assistant deputy minister from the Department of Justice. All the
positions are by position as opposed to by individual. So it would also be the
deputy minister of Human Resource Secretariat, deputy minister of Transportation
and Works and the president of the College of the North Atlantic. Those are the
other members of the Advisory Committee.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. When would that
committee have been appointed? Is that an annual appointment or is it position
appointed? Basically, it's the status quo.
MR. HOLLETT:
Standard.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
How
many reviews would the Advisory Committee have done this year? Do you have any
idea?
MR. HOLLETT:
We do on average – I don't
have the exact number – 15 a year.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Would
that be public knowledge on which ones were done?
MR. HOLLETT:
No, it wouldn't. We get a
direct request from a deputy on a particular issue to have a look at it and we
will provide them advice. They're always about individuals so we don't make that
information (inaudible).
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So that would maybe be
driven by a deputy minister in a department who, before hiring, may want to have
some feedback on possible conflict to through the Advisory Committee? Would that
be how it would work?
MR. HOLLETT:
That is a scenario but it's
not the most common scenario. The most common scenarios would be situations
like, for example, a deputy may contact me and say one of our staff has been
invited to a trade show down in New York, all expenses paid. Is it okay for them
to take it? We would provide advice on that. Or somebody retired from the
department six months ago, we need them to come back for a month on a contract
to help finish up construction of a bridge.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLETT:
Those are the types of
issues that we would get into.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Would you ever see if it's
initial appointment or initial review of a position that someone was going into
that you'd be asked to review whether, in your opinion, there would be any
possible conflict under the conflict legislation?
MR. HOLLETT:
On occasion, we are asked –
somebody has just been hired and they, for example, or their spouse might be
involved in a business that in some way might be perceived to be doing business
with the department. The deputy will ask us for advice as to how that should be
structured to ensure that there is no conflict. That does happen from time to
time.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
Just a
final question on the merit principle in regard to the Public Service
Commission: When you're going to your competitions, how does that work in regard
to bargaining, non-bargaining and management in the public service? Is it viewed
all the same or is there any variance from that in regard to using the merit
principle?
MR. HOLLETT:
Number one, I need to clarify that the Public Service Commission would be doing
staffing policy.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure.
MR. HOLLETT:
But the Human Resource
Secretariat, the staff would be doing the actual staffing itself. The merit
principles would be the same regardless of whether a position was management or
bargaining. But there may be situations with union positions where seniority or
other factors may also come into play and may require a secondary evaluation in
terms of: If you have two candidates that are virtually very, very close in
terms of how they came out, the union contract may require, or may suggest, that
the position be given to the person with the greatest seniority. Those will be
the only differences between management and union positions.
CHAIR:
I remind the Member his time
has expired.
Shall
1.1 –
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Excuse me.
MS. MICHAEL:
I would like to ask a couple
of more questions, please.
CHAIR:
My apologies.
Ms.
Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just
coming back, Minister, to the classification appeals – and as the deputy has
said backlog continues – I'm just wondering: What is the length of time, the
wait time, for getting an appeal settled?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'll turn that to the
deputy.
MR. HOLLETT:
When we've been doing bargaining unit appeals we are essentially up-to-date
which usually means that we can get an appeal heard within three months. For the
management appeals, we're still dealing with the backlogs, so some of those are,
in some cases, several years old. New ones that come in, it would be reasonable
– we tell people that we're not going to get to it in the short term, certainly
what we would consider to be a desirable period, which is about three months,
but we will get to it.
MS. MICHAEL:
But sometimes they're
longer.
MR. HOLLETT:
Sometimes they're longer.
MS. MICHAEL:
Minister, with regard to the
staffing around appeal investigations, I see from the active staff complement
that there are just three positions there: employee services officer, info
management technician and administrative officer. Is that correct?
MS. C. BENNETT:
You're getting that from the
Salary Details, is it?
MS. MICHAEL:
No, I'm looking at the
Public Service Commission, Active Staff Complement.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Okay. Sorry, you –
MS. MICHAEL:
The temporary position, the
employee services officer, and then two permanents, the information management
technician and the administrative officer.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'm sorry, I didn't
understand the question.
MS. MICHAEL:
Are they all the staff who
deal with appeal investigations? They're identified as appeal investigations
staff.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Understood.
MR. HOLLETT:
The way that these are presented is based on the historical structure of the
Public Service Commission which doesn't really translate to the way the place is
actually organized today.
With
respect to appeals and investigations, we don't do investigations anymore. But
for appeals, the administrative officer who is there is the person who
administrators the classification appeal process. The information management
technician supports the PSC generally, but it had been voted under the previous
structure in the Appeals and Investigations Division.
When it
comes to staffing appeals, those would be handled through the accountability and
certification area of the Public Service Commission, who are the same people who
support the staffing process, do the staffing audits and also support the
Independent Appointments Commission.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay, so this area is just
management appeals.
MR. HOLLETT:
Yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you.
MS. C. BENNETT:
If I may, the other thing I
point out for the Member is that the Salary Reports – as we talked about last
year, we made a decision to have the Salary Reports created from the PeopleSoft
payroll software. Some of the –
MS. MICHAEL:
Created from where?
MS. C. BENNETT:
From the PeopleSoft payroll
system.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. C. BENNETT:
It's a comprehensive
database of employee information. I appreciate and I'm glad that the Member
asked for clarity on what work is assigned to whom. It's important that the
assumptions, when you read these notes, should be to continue to ask for clarity
as to who is doing what work, because depending on how they've been set up in
the payroll system or how the actual information is printed, may not necessarily
provide the answer to the question.
Mr.
Hollett has provided the answer and I just wanted to call that out for the
Member.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you very much.
As far
as I can see – for example, with regard to this salary report – the departmental
total is just about $60,000 out from what is in your budget. It seems to be
pretty accurate.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Uh-huh.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you.
Those
are all the questions I have.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Ms. Michael.
Any
further questions?
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
No, we're good.
Thank
you.
CHAIR:
Okay.
Shall
1.1.01 carry?
All
those in favour?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
Against?
Carried.
On
motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.
On
motion, Public Service Commission, total head, carried.
CHAIR:
That concludes the Public
Service Commission. Thank you very much to the staff.
Minister, next we'll go to –
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes, we'll take a minute
just to switch over the staff. I just wanted to take a minute to thank the
officials who have worked hard not only to prepare for this evening's Estimates,
but also who have worked very hard through the entire process of building this
budget and particularly the work that they've done.
We've
been working on this since last fall. I certainly want to acknowledge their
efforts at the Table tonight. I'm sure I speak on behalf of the other Members as
well.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you.
CHAIR:
Okay, we'll now be looking
at the Women's Policy Office.
CLERK (Murphy):
2.8.01.
CHAIR:
2.8.01.
Minister.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Okay.
Well,
before we get into the questions I just wanted to provide a little bit of some
opening comments and talk a little bit about what the Women's Policy Office is
responsible for doing in government for the Committee.
The
Women's Policy Office responsibility includes advising government on gender
issues. They are responsible for working with departments to apply gender-based
analysis to the development of policy, programs as well as legislation.
The
Women's Policy Office leads the Violence Prevention Initiative, which is an
interdepartmental and interdisciplinary strategy to address violence in our
communities and also to partner with equity-seeking groups. They collaborate
with and fund women's centres, the Multicultural Women's Organization of
Newfoundland and Labrador, SHOP, THANL, NAWN as well as Violence Prevention NL.
Some of
the ongoing initiatives to enhance women's economic security: Included in
The Way Forward you would have heard
or read information that we committed to require women's equity plans on
government infrastructure projects. They are also working on a union
collaboration committee to ensure that women who have taken the opportunity to
train in the trades have the opportunity to continue to participate, and working
on pay equity legislation, supporting indigenous women initiatives such as the
indigenous Women in Mining project. They're also working with SNL on the
procurement act regulations and are participating in trade policy development.
Some of
the ongoing initiatives to enhance women's social policy: They are working with
the PSC and the OCIO to improve the IAC website. They're working with the
community sector to bring gender-specific board governance training to women. We
are developing an equity profile which is a compilation of statistical data
about women in Newfoundland. We are continuing the promotion of women on
agencies, boards and commissions.
They're
also engaging with community groups to support shared-space initiatives and
engaging with transition houses, THANL and Newfoundland and Labrador Housing
Corporation to improve the service delivery to women and children in the
province's shelters and developing a women's leadership strategy.
Some of
the ongoing initiatives on the Violence Prevention strategy that I'd like to
share with the Committee today before we get into the Estimates: The Women's
Policy Office is responsible for leading the increased collaboration among the
violence prevention NL partners and to promote shared services and greater
impact.
They
are supporting training sessions in the community for the VAAT program. They are
working with Justice on initiatives such as the provision of legal advice and
supports to victims of sexual assault and working to increase the capacity in
Labrador, through THANL, to support indigenous women and children fleeing
violence. They're working with the interdepartmental committee on issues of
homelessness and supporting the housing strategy and supportive living.
With
that, Mr. Chair, I'll turn it over to you and the Committee for questions.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Minister, and
just your staff with you as well.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Right. Thank you. It's been
a long day.
I'll
turn it over to the deputy minister for Women's Policy Office.
MS. BALLARD:
Donna Ballard, Deputy
Minister.
MS. TRICKETT:
Wanda Trickett, Departmental
Controller.
CHAIR:
Excellent. Thank you.
And
opening remarks.
Ms.
Perry.
MS. PERRY:
Thank you very much.
I don't
usually have opening remarks; I usually start out with the line items. You said
in your introduction something intriguing. You said you're working on pay equity
legislation. Can you elaborate on that?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Donna, do you want to speak
to that?
MS. BALLARD:
Well, of course, there was a motion in the House this session to start that
process about – we should be looking at pay equity legislation, so we're
starting now. We're collaborating with the Provincial Advisory Council on the
Status of Women.
At this
point we're doing some jurisdictional scans and some research. Then we'll start
pulling together a departmental committee to look at some options.
MS. PERRY:
What kind of a time frame?
Do you think it will be coming forward to the House this session?
MS. C. BENNETT:
The work that the Women's
Policy Office is doing currently would be the background and research work. When
we have that completed, that work will be provided to the department for the
department's review.
As to a
timeline, I don't have a timeline that I can speak to tonight. Certainly, as we
get clarity as to the volume of work we have to do, we'll have a better idea of
the timeline.
MS. PERRY:
Okay. Thanks so much.
I'm
going to start with 2.8.01. In 2016-'17 you actually spent less in your revised
than what you had budgeted. Can you explain why that was?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Just for clarity – I want to
make sure – you're referencing the $871,000 number?
MS. PERRY:
Yes.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Right.
MS. PERRY:
2.8.01.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
That
reflects savings from the '16-'17 budget due to position vacancies.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
This
year then, in your new budget, you've allocated $900,000. You anticipate what
changes there?
MS. C. BENNETT:
We're down in the budget
from last year. There's a $79,700 annualization of prior year decisions, there's
a $95,300 zero-based budgeting impact and a $15,800 change to management
structure that are offsetting the $79,700. The $95,300 and the $15,800 offset
the $79,000 to net $31,000.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
Can we
get an organizational chart for WPO? I know it's not a large entity but it would
be nice to have an organizational chart. Are there any contractual positions
included in those Salaries?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Since it is a small
department, I think with the Member's permission I'm going to ask the deputy to
speak to the org structure right here and she'll provide it for you.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
She'll provide it for you.
MS. PERRY:
Sure.
MS. BALLARD:
Okay.
Of
course, it's myself, as the deputy minister, and there's one administrative
support person. There's a second administrative support person who is also our
information manager. She is actually supported through the Opening Doors
Program.
We have
a financial administrative person who is currently on long-term sick leave.
We're absorbing that work within the organization and with the help of the staff
from the departmental controller.
We have
three management positions: one is the manager of Economic Policy, the second is
the manager of Social Policy and the third is a newly created position of
manager of Violence Prevention. We're hoping to post that very soon. There are
two analyst positions: one is a secondment, but it is backfilled and the second
one is a short-term sick leave which we're hoping to fill in the interim very
shortly.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
Do you
have any temporary positions in place over there at the moment?
MS. BALLARD:
No.
MS. PERRY:
No temporaries. Do you have
any 13-weekers over there?
MS. BALLARD:
Pardon me?
MS. PERRY:
Thirteen-weekers?
MS. BALLARD:
No.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
In
terms of Transportation and – oh, no, before I leave Salaries though, I do want
to ask: In terms of the attrition plan, is your department following the 2015
attrition plan?
MS. BALLARD:
We didn't have an attrition
plan as such, but the financial administrative person, when she retires, which
we're expecting within a year, we won't be refilling that position because we're
able to absorb it.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
MS. BALLARD:
I should mention also – I
didn't when I talked about the Salaries – some of that salary money, $175,000,
is actually for the intimate partner violence prevention unit to pay the
salaries of one RNC officer and one analyst.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
Moving
on now to Transportation and Communications, what does this include? From budget
'16 to budget '17 there's a savings of $300, but the zero-based budgeting
documents indicate a savings of $22,900. Could you explain that?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
There
was $22,900 under the zero-based budgeting and there was $22,600 re-profiled of
funds based on intended requirements to make sure that it was in the right line
items. So that was the net of $300 that you're seeing.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
In
terms of Transportation and Communications, what else does that include? What
types of travel are funded under here? Is it just staff travel or do you also
extend some coverage of travel to some of the outside groups for conferences and
that kind of thing?
MS. BALLARD:
The departmental travel
itself, of course, is federal-provincial-territorial travel which is limited.
The minister and myself have a meeting each year and an Atlantic program as
well.
The
majority of it is we host and fund an indigenous women's conference every year.
We do fund for the indigenous women to come together. This year, they have
established a steering committee and they have particular areas that they want
to focus on. We've been helping them and using travel money from last year to
come together to put forward a proposal to the federal government which, if
we're successful, we will continue to build on that. So we will provide the
travel for those women.
We also
fund indigenous women to attend the National Indigenous Women's Summit.
Sometimes, depending on what funding may be available, we also fund to
participate in meetings related to the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and
Girls meetings and so forth. Also, there is some staff travel when we provide
support to companies who are required to do women employment plans. So sometimes
we travel to those regions to provide that support.
We host
economic round tables – we just had one but it was in St. John's last week –
which brought together trades women and unions to talk about more support they
need in the unions. We're going to be hosting another one on the West Coast next
week which is going to be about trades women over there and where the work is
finishing on Emera. Hopefully, they'll be working on the new infrastructure
project over there. That's the kind of travel that we do.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
If I might, I just wanted to
also add that the officials from the department last year had the opportunity –
and it was a purposeful opportunity – to visit all of the shelters. Do you want
to talk about that?
MS. BALLARD:
All except Rigolet. We
couldn't get in there because of the weather. But would you like me …?
What we
did is we did a review. We travelled to all of the shelters throughout the
province – except, unfortunately, for Rigolet; we weren't able to get in there –
just to see and to assess the condition and their needs. As a result of that,
there was increased funding this year through Health and Community Services. We
also have some planning for how we can support them in the future.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I didn't have the privilege
of visiting them all with you, except for Rigolet, but I was able to get to
Corner Brook and Gander. I was certainly pleased to be briefed on the results of
the visits that took place in Labrador. It's certainly important to get staff to
actually go into the shelters and see.
MS. PERRY:
Yes, absolutely.
I know
from my experience having worked there, there are a lot of issues and funding
constraints, in particular, that, not just the shelters, but some of the other
groups face. So when we get to, I guess, Grants and Subsidies, I want to
elaborate a little bit more as well on some of these, the funding these groups
are receiving and some initiatives around how they can achieve a little bit more
with the money they get.
But
before we get there, Professional Services, what services does WPO use and who
do you purchase the services from generally?
MS. BALLARD:
Professional Services is entirely funding that we give to the RCMP for the
intimate violence prevention unit and they fund an officer and an analyst and
then we do the operational costs as well because of the contract that the
province has with that organization.
MS. PERRY:
Okay. So why last year was
$60,000 not spent?
MS. BALLARD:
It was a vacancy, but they have it filled now.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
In
terms of the $2,100 that was cut for zero-based budgeting, what impact do you
think that's going to mean for operations?
MS. BALLARD:
The $2,100, that was a little extra that we had in Professional Services over
and above what we were using for the IPV; we weren't using it. We didn't need
any other professional services.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
Purchased Services looks like it's cut in half, what is happening here?
MS. C. BENNETT:
That reflects $4,000 that was achieved through the zero-based budgeting and
$22,600 re-profiled. You'll remember when you asked the question about
Transportation and Communications.
MS. PERRY:
Yeah.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I mentioned the number was
put in a different category.
MS. PERRY:
Yeah.
MS. C. BENNETT:
And this is the other side
of that.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
It was put in Purchased
Services to make sure it was accurately reflected in the right Estimates line.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
So now
we're down to Grants and Subsidies. First, I'd like to ask for a list of all the
entities and organizations that get this funding and if I could have a list of
the amount of funding per organization and entity as well.
MS. BALLARD:
I can actually give that to you now.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
MS. BALLARD:
So –
MS. PERRY:
Wait now. Mr. Chair –
CHAIR:
Lorraine.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you.
If I
may point out, Minister, anytime a request is made, can both parties get the
information?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sure.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Donna's going to give it to
you now; the deputy minister's going to give it to you now if that's okay.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right, yeah.
MS. BALLARD:
We fund 10 regional coordinating committees against violence and each of them
receives $80,000, except for Violence Prevention, Labrador, which receives an
extra $20,000 because of the challenges with travel.
We have
eight Status of Women Councils and they receive $142,625. That is up $15,000
from last year. That's with the increased funding this year.
MS. PERRY:
(Inaudible) operating
budget?
MS. BALLARD:
Yes, an extra $15,000 went in this year.
MS. PERRY:
That's not per council,
that's spread over eight councils?
MS. BALLARD:
No, $15,000 per council.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
MS. BALLARD:
It was increased this year.
MS. PERRY:
They must be some happy.
MS. BALLARD:
Yes.
MS. PERRY:
Well, I'm sure they'd like
more, but …
MS. BALLARD:
The Transition House Association of Newfoundland and Labrador are receiving
$200,000, and they are increased $95,000 from last year.
One of
the things they're doing with that money is they have partnered with Violence
Prevention, Labrador, which is one of our regional coordinating councils I just
discussed, and they're creating and hiring a joint position whose main job is
going to be to help with the transition houses in Labrador; the five transition
houses, but specifically to help with the three on the coast.
There
was also an increase through Health and Community Services in the Rigolet
transition house, which was open two days a week and now because of the funding
for this year, will be open seven days a week. There is a brand new transition
house about to be opened in Hopedale. That was funded through government and the
regional health authority. We are helping them negotiate through Newfoundland
and Labrador Housing with the federal government for funding for a new
transition house in Nain.
This
position will help to coordinate all of that work and help those communities
coordinate together. So that a woman doesn't necessarily have to go to the house
in Rigolet or be transferred to Hopedale but perhaps may go to the other two
Aboriginal communities on the coast. The rest of that money we're hoping will be
used to increase support to all of the transition houses to help them with their
governance, their governing structures and their boards of directors.
We also
fund the Newfoundland and Labrador Sexual Assault and Crisis Prevention Centre,
that's $110,000. We fund the multicultural organization of Newfoundland and
Labrador, $142,600, and that's up from last year. We've increased the funding to
that organization by $42,600. Now we've brought it up to the same level as the
Women's Centre.
New
funding this year for the Safe Harbour Outreach Project, which is a support
group for women in the sex trade industry. They have a number of community
partners but it's work from the St. John's council. They're being provided
$141,700.
We fund
the Newfoundland and Labrador Aboriginal Women's Network, $100,000. We provide
an application based program to support indigenous women grants, $230,000. So
that's been the same. Then we have a small amount of money for miscellaneous in
which we help support some travel or some meetings, that sort of thing. We also
provide funding to the Provincial Advisory Council and the Status of Women,
$418,000.
MS. PERRY:
Okay. I know I'm out of time
but can I ask one quick supplemental here on this one?
A
little while ago I referred to something I wanted to elaborate on when we got to
grants. When I was working with them back in 2015, a lot of these regional
coordinating meeting committees, particularly those in here on the Avalon, and
the Sexual Assault and Crisis Prevention Centre, they were concerned about tight
budgets and interested in sharing rental space, or acquiring rental space to
share so they could achieve economies of scale and save some money. Where is the
status of that? Is that moving anywhere? Have they had any success with that?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I guess the most appropriate
answer for me to give you is that as the Minister Responsible for the Status of
Women and the Minister Responsible for Finance, I get to learn a lot about
leases and spaces.
I've
asked, and the deputies agreed, to take on – as I mentioned in the preamble – a
responsibility of helping coordinate the possibility of a pilot of shared
service spaces for some of these organizations, and the organizations are happy
that we're looking at some type of pilot. It's in the very early stages right
now, and certainly I'm happy to provide updates to both the Official Opposition
Party and Members of the Third Party as soon as we have further clarity on that.
It's something the deputy has taken responsibility and direction from me as the
minister.
Certainly, we're very cognizant of the fact that we can have dollars that are
going into community organizations, going into supporting people versus
supporting multiple rents and multiple all kinds of fees that they have to pay
someone.
MS. PERRY:
Absolutely. Of course, the
synergies they achieve from working together and sharing their staff resources.
That would be great to see that happen.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Ms. Perry.
Ms.
Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Chair.
Minister, just to ask this upfront with regard to the briefing books, may we
expect to get your briefing books? Thank you very much, because that –
MS. C. BENNETT:
We have those for everybody
for tonight.
MS. MICHAEL:
Good enough. That cuts down
on how many notes we have to take, et cetera, as you know.
Thank
you. I appreciate that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sorry, Ms. Michael, if I
might. Donna can provide a written document of the information that she shared
orally.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. C. BENNETT:
We'll provide that in
follow-up in the future.
MS. MICHAEL:
Great. Thank you.
I don't
repeat questions, but there are a couple of cases where I need to get some
clarification because I may not have quite understood what you were saying. With
regard to the positions, is there still a vacancy? I know one was long-term sick
leave, but is there still a vacancy?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'll speak to that.
The
manager that the deputy spoke to that would be responsible for work in the
violence prevention area; that position had to be classified. In following up
with HRS last week, the classification has concluded and that position will be
posted. It is currently vacant, but it is our intention and has always been our
intention to fill that position.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
We're eager to do so and
look forward to getting that done as quickly as we can.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay, great. So I was
correct but it's in action.
Thank
you very much.
With
regard to the partner violence initiative, I know the deputy minister did give
an amount but I didn't quite get it, the money that goes to the intimate partner
violence initiative.
MS. BALLARD:
All of the Professional
Services budget.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes.
MS. BALLARD:
So that's the $233,000.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. BALLARD:
And $175,000 of the Salaries
budget and $15,000 of the Purchased Services budget.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
That's
all going to be in the briefing book, so if we can get that to keep those
details.
MS. BALLARD:
Sure.
MS. C. BENNETT:
We'll make sure you have
that information because I'm not sure it's identified the way that you're
describing it.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Ms. Ballard can provide some
information to make sure you have that clarity.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you very much.
Then, I
have a similar question to the Violence Prevention Initiative, the amount. Is
that under Professional Services or is that under Grants and Subsidies?
MS. BALLARD:
I'm looking at the departmental controller, sorry, who may be able to help me.
It's my understanding it's included in all of the lines.
MS. MICHAEL:
Oh, okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Ms. Michael, last year we
had a discussion around the Women's Policy Office funding. If you look
historically at the dollars on a consolidated basis, overall basis for this
office, there were some pretty significant swings in the last couple of years.
One of
the decisions that we've made is to limit and restrict the efforts around mass
marketing for violence prevention. Not because education is not important, but
some of the dollars that were spent in the past we felt weren't necessarily the
right focus.
We feel
it's very important for the officials from the department to work very much with
the community organizations. I would say that the work we've been able to do in
the last year to get to a place where we can say things like Rigolet will be
open 24 hours, seven days a week, is a result of that work and effort of
engaging on the ground with community organizations.
The
other thing with the Violence Prevention Initiative is the work that I mentioned
in the preamble. Working with Justice on legislative pieces that may be
appropriate for us to look at as a government is equally important. Certainly,
having a deputy with Ms. Ballard's background in law also helps us. She's had
very productive meetings with representatives of a variety of organizations
including, as an example, the Federation of Labour, who have provided us some
feedback on some legislative changes and regulatory changes they think might be
appropriate.
We'll
continue to look for ways of legislatively – and the community and through the
educations system. We also presented information to the Premier's Task Force for
the Violence Prevention Initiative of government and some suggestions for them
to consider as part of the curriculum. The officials in the department did a lot
of work last year on identifying what could be done to improve and add value,
and also add results to the efforts of reducing violence in our community when
we know we have significant challenges to deal with.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you, Minister, for
that explanation. I mean, obviously, I totally agree with the way in which
things are going because I think it has to be the way that you are describing,
so the direct working with agencies, departments and community on the ground to
really get change to happen.
I had
many questions about the – in the past, it's not there now – whole stuff around
the mass marketing because I don't think that's very effective. I'll be
interested – it's probably too early for you to give a sense – to see how we
will be able to evaluate on the ground how the new approach is working.
Certainly, having a place like in Rigolet – I've been to Rigolet many times and
I know its history around violence, et cetera. To have a shelter there open
seven days a week is so important, really important. I'm really glad to hear of
this approach. I think it's very important.
I have
some other questions here. With regard to the government departments – and this
is not around violence, this is around gender-based analysis – what training has
been done with departments around gender-based analysis?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'm going to let the deputy
speak. She can also provide some texture as to things the department has
undertaken in the last year in addition to training.
MS. BALLARD:
There is gender-based analysis training. We adopt, on our website, the Status of
Women Canada.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes.
MS. BALLARD:
And we've also gone out to departments and done training on the ground.
We're
going to do more of it. That's, I guess, one of our to-do lists for this year.
We do actually have a new analyst that's just recently joined us who we think
will be very co-operative in that. So we've done that, but we continue to do it
because we receive every Cabinet paper. We've done very well in the last year in
making connections with departments so they know to call us first.
We also
sit on a number of horizontal committees, for example, so that we're providing
that advice. We continue to do that on a day-to-day basis and our collaborations
with departments are increasing. We are finding now we're getting calls earlier
than when the papers are done. I think that partnerships are developing very
well.
MS. MICHAEL:
Good. Thank you.
The
Violence Prevention Initiative, is the prevalence survey finished?
MS. BALLARD:
No, we're still working on that.
MS. MICHAEL:
Still working on it. Okay.
With
regard to training, again, under the Violence Prevention Initiative, which
community organizations are you working directly with, with the training of
community organizations?
MS. BALLARD:
The VAAT, the Violence
Awareness.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes.
MS. BALLARD:
We just actually very recently launched an up-to-date revised set of materials.
We worked with our community partners, our regional coordinating councils, which
are actually rebranding themselves as Violence Prevention Labrador according to
their regions because they're coordinating and working together more.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. BALLARD:
They're the trainers and
then in their communities, they go out into the communities, seniors homes, high
schools, College of the North Atlantic, wherever they find a need and deliver
the training there.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
Does
that involve schools as well?
MS. BALLARD:
Yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes.
Are you
directly involved with the restorative justice organization with regard to the
project that's going on in schools?
MS. BALLARD:
I mean we're certainly aware
of the project. I know the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women is
very much involved. We support that.
We
also, as the minister indicated with the Premier's Task Force, submitted and we
encouraged our partners to submit as well. Part of the submissions that we made
is encouraging the restorative justice model.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
I know
that you're doing a lot of work with regard to gender equity and employment
plans with employers. I think WRDC is probably working along with you in some of
that.
Could
we just have a bit of detail about how that's going? Are you getting new
employers involved, et cetera? Does it involve smaller employers and not just
the large ones? I think initially larger corporations were taking part. Is it
also getting to smaller workplaces?
MS. BALLARD:
Yeah, we're doing very well
with that. Because of the benefits agreements, we are working with the big
projects.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes.
MS. BALLARD:
We're very successful with
the medium-to-small companies because under our
Environmental Assessment Act, when
there's a project of any kind and there's a requirement to come in under
environmental assessment, we're very fortunate to have legislation that talks
about economic and social development and benefits.
All of
those environmental assessment requirements come to our office. When we look at
those and find there's enough employment opportunity that a women's employment
plan is required, then we require a women's employment plan.
Just
recently this year as well, we partnered with the three other Atlantic provinces
and we released a guide to gender diversity in the workplace.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes.
MS. BALLARD:
We have also provided a template so that when employers come and they don't know
what to do, what does this look like? We're able to provide them with a guide
and a template and support.
As the
minister indicated in The Way Forward,
we've also been successful in requiring women's employment plans on
government-funded infrastructure projects. So we're working with Transportation
and Works right now on that.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
Thank
you.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Ms. Michael.
Sorry,
Minister, did you have more to –?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes, just on the
infrastructure spending for the provincial government. That infrastructure plan
is about $3.8 billion over five years, and certainly on some of the larger
projects it was really important for us to make sure that what the expectations
were of the private sector were being reflected from government's infrastructure
spending as well. We'll continue to work to make sure that continues to happen.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
Could I
just ask one follow-up question to that?
CHAIR:
Sure.
MS. MICHAEL:
With regard to the new
policy around procurement, I'm assuming this would be one of the principles that
would be in play in not just going with the lowest bid.
MS. C. BENNETT:
The regulations under the
new procurement act are currently being drafted and finalized. As I mentioned in
my preamble, Women's Policy Office is engaged in that process.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I know Service NL has had a
variety of meetings in addition to organizations that you've already mentioned.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Other organizations like
NLOWE would also have feedback and that is being provided, so that in the
drafting of the regulations we can look to see what opportunities are there to
continue to support gender equity.
MS. MICHAEL:
Great.
Thank
you very much, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Ms. Michael.
Ms.
Perry, any further questions?
MS. PERRY:
I do. I have some, not too,
too many.
According to the budget material, Budget
2017 commits $250,000 to establish the Sexual Assault Response Pilot
Program. It's found under both Justice and WPO in the promotional material, but
is this funding new or is it the $250,000 profile using resources already in the
system, and where can we find it in the Estimates?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah. So that is not money
that sits in the Women's Policy Office. That's money that the Department of
Justice and the Minister of Justice has been very successful in working with his
federal counterparts to provide funding for that.
We can
provide some clarity from the Department of Justice. I can follow up with them
if you'd like, Ms. Perry, but my understanding is that's housed in Justice as an
inflow from the federal government then an outflow into the community.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
Is
there any funding in this budget to advance women apprentices? In 2016-2017,
there's a line item for $200,000. Is that somewhere in –?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah, I don't have that
information in the Women's Policy Office budget. I would suggest that question
is more appropriate for the Minister of Advanced Education.
MS. PERRY:
AES.
MS. C. BENNETT:
AES, yes.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
Believe
it or not, I'm down to my last question.
Does
the Women's Policy Office take summer students or work term students?
MS. BALLARD:
Yes, we take all. We do take work term students. We just had a work term student
finish up.
The
summer, actually, I just reach out to the Law Society. We're hoping to get a
first year law student this year to help us do some work around pay equity
legislation and domestic violence legislation.
MS. PERRY:
Okay.
Thanks
so much.
CHAIR:
Thank you very much, Ms.
Perry.
Ms.
Michael, any further questions?
MS. MICHAEL:
No, I have no more
questions. I have them but the answers are going to be in the briefing book so
I'm not going to use up the time.
CHAIR:
Sorry, Minister, concluding
remarks?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'll let you do the vote and
then I'll have a last comment.
CHAIR:
Sorry, Mr. Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Just a general question. You
mentioned earlier in regard to Rigolet and some much needed infrastructure. The
federal government has referenced the fact that for First Nations and indigenous
peoples there are different programs and funding identified across the country.
Are there avenues here to leverage additional dollars for some of that
programming that you've talked about?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes. I'll answer that in two
parts and then I'll ask the deputy minister to add some comments.
The
federal government has provided funding through Newfoundland and Labrador
Housing Corp for some of the transition shelters for capital construction. The
funding that the federal government has for indigenous communities, some of the
indigenous groups need some additional support from us, and the Women's Policy
Office is providing that support to them so we can take advantage of those
grants.
You can
be assured that we're doing everything we can to make sure we get every cent we
can from the federal government for the indigenous communities in Newfoundland
and Labrador.
Ms.
Ballard, do you want to add anything specific?
MS. BALLARD:
No, nothing specific. We're hoping, actually – we're very hopeful that there is
going to be some funding coming down very soon for some infrastructure in those
communities.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
The Newfoundland and
Labrador Housing money is that 100-cent dollars or is it leverage money?
MS. C. BENNETT:
In last year's federal
budget there was an amount of money that was provided across the country related
to transition facilities, and that money is in Housing to be disbursed amongst
some of the houses in Newfoundland. The indigenous money is something separate
from that.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
The Housing money, I think
it came from CMHC, but the Status of Women federally championed that. The
indigenous money comes from a different department.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
CHAIR:
That's all, Mr. Hutchings?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah.
CHAIR:
Okay.
Any
concluding remarks, Minister?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Other than just to say a
thank you again to the staff. The Women's Policy Office, I would suggest and I
can proudly say, punch above their weight to some degree. They do a tremendous
amount of work. They've accomplished a lot as a team in the last year under some
pretty challenging circumstances in the context of the volume of work that we
want to get done.
I'd
like to congratulate Donna and her team back in the office for the work that
they've done. I'm sure the Members of the Committee would join me in thanking
them for their preparation for the Estimates tonight.
MS. PERRY:
Absolutely, we do. You do
very special work and heart wrenching in many cases, so hats off to you. Keep it
up, great work.
CHAIR:
Ms. Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
I also want to say a special
thank you. It's really good, Minister, to see more money being put in to meet
the needs of women in this province. I'm excited about the work that's
happening.
As
somebody who worked in this area for a number of years, it's good to hear some
of the things that came out tonight, especially around women's employment in
trades. That is something that's very close to my heart as I think you're
probably aware. We've just got to keep forging ahead. Thank you very much.
I'm not
surprised that the Women's Policy Office is punching above its weight and
working so intensely because that's the nature of women's work unfortunately. We
always have to be doing it.
Thank
you.
CHAIR:
Shall 2.8.01 carry?
All
those in favour?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
Against?
Carried.
On
motion, subhead 2.8.01 carried.
CLERK:
2.8.02.
CHAIR:
Shall 2.8.02 carry?
Minister.
MS. C. BENNETT:
For the Members of the
Committee, this is the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women. I
think Ms. Ballard had referenced already the grant for the Provincial Advisory
Council on the Status of Women when she listed the grants that we provide. This
one has a stand-alone heading in the
Estimates. It's consistent with the amount that has been spent in prior
years.
I don't
know if there are any questions.
CHAIR:
Ms. Perry.
MS. PERRY:
I already asked my questions
sort of intermingled.
CHAIR:
Excellent. Okay.
Ms.
Michael, no?
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
No, I'm good.
CHAIR:
Excellent.
2.8.02.
Shall
2.8.02 carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, subhead 2.8.02 carried.
On
motion, Women's Policy Office, total heads, carried.
CHAIR:
Excellent. Thank you.
We'll
take a short break, and when we come back we'll begin with the Human Resource
Secretariat.
Recess
CHAIR:
Okay, Human Resource
Secretariat, 3.1.01.
Minister.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Thanks.
I'm
going to turn the preamble, with the Committee's permission, over to the deputy.
This particular department has undergone some significant changes in last year's
budget and some that are reflected in this year's budget.
I think
it's probably best to let the deputy provide a bit of an overview of that, as
opposed to trying to find it as we go through. I'm sure you'll see it as we go
through, but we do want to provide a little bit of oversight.
I'll
let the officials introduce themselves and then I'll ask the deputy minister,
Geoff Williams, to take over and provide you with some of the structural changes
that have happened in the department.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Minister.
Before
you begin, I forgot to mention in the beginning just to identify yourself each
time you speak for the Broadcast Centre. As you're all nodding in agreement,
you're all very much aware.
MS. C. BENNETT:
It's only the minister that
doesn't know that.
CHAIR:
Thank you very much.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Geoff Williams, Deputy
Minister.
MS. FOLLETT:
Tina Follett, Assistant
Deputy Minister, Compensation, Benefits and Staffing.
MR. JOYCE:
George Joyce, Assistant
Deputy Minister, Labour Relations.
MS. MUNDON:
Tansy Mundon, Director of
Communications.
MR. STANLEY:
Todd Stanley, Special
Counsel.
MS. TRICKETT:
Wanda Trickett, Departmental
Controller.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Thank you, Minister, for the
opportunity to review the structure and put a bit of context around the
discussion this evening.
HRS
started planning for restructuring in 2015. The first part of that restructuring
commenced in 2016. The plan for restructuring for the Human Resource Secretariat
was outlined to be a multi-year plan. It was going to cover '16-'17, '17-'18
and, as well, '18-'19. As I talk a little bit about it, it will become a bit
clearer why it is a multi-year plan.
Our
first change was in 2016 when we moved to changing the mandate for the Centre
for Learning and Development. That mandate became one of focusing on
compliance-based learning and legislatively required training, as well, with a
significant emphasis on technology assistance to actually facilitate that
training versus solely in-the-classroom-based training.
With
respect to the restructuring of the Human Resource Secretariat, you will note
that there were three branches under the former structure. That has now changed
to two branches. Tina and George have introduced themselves. They're
respectively responsible for each one of the branches.
The
change, by way of context, is a reduction of approximately 48 per cent senior
managers within the Human Resource Secretariat and, as well, an overall
reduction of 72 positions through that three year.
Now, in
terms of my prior comment, in terms of why it was a multi-year approach, the
order of magnitude of the change we are embarking on required a phased in
transition kind of approach to ensure we were still are able to provide
efficient effective services to the clients we represent.
You
will note as we go through the material there are some new divisions within the
Human Resource Secretariat that were previously not there. There are some
changes in some that were there that are no longer. For example, there's been a
new division created of Executive Client and Consulting Services. We can
elaborate a bit on that as we go through. There is, as well, a dedicated
division with respect to Employee Safety and Wellness. As well, there's a
foundational component of a service centre with a multi-part layered approach to
addressing employee and employer concerns.
As
well, a change from last year to this year, French Services was previously
housed with the Human Resource Secretariat. It is no longer with the Human
Resource Secretariat, which is certainly not a function of the importance or
relevance of that particular service; however, it was felt, from the
restructured Human Resource Secretariat perspective, it was better aligned with
the Service Newfoundland and Labrador. So that's why it's not in our structure.
Those are some four changes right there that are easily to reflect on.
April
19 was the most recent change with respect to implementing the second part of
our structure and that actually seen the reduction from three branches to two
with the significant change in management structure as I just talked about.
I'd
like to try and put some context around the Estimates that we have here in front
of us, which will highlight some of the complexities that our controller has had
to deal with and our financial folks.
We've
essentially moved from nine activity centres to 12. So what that has actually
required to be completed by the finance folks is prior to going forward with our
budget this year, knowing that our structure was changing in a multi-faceted
approach, our finance folks had to essentially look back and take the original
budget that we were prescribed and say how do we now roll that over 12 activity
centres versus nine. So essentially overlay that budget that was provided to us
over the new structure, and as well the same exercise then with respect to the
projected revised.
So one
of the challenges that we faced in trying to present this in as clear and crisp
manner is that given we moved from nine to 12 activity centres, that involved a
movement of staff, it involved a movement of operating budgets so there was a
very tedious process of trying to determine how much of each operating budget
went to the new activity centres. In some cases that was very clear. In others
it was a bit more of a challenge in terms of how we were able to do that. That
was one of the challenges, I will note, in terms of moving forward.
Even an
example of how staff were being assigned to new activity centres and new
divisions, that required a best guest as to we knew the classification that
would be in the new division, but not necessarily what step salary the incumbent
would be at. So in terms of do we budget or move a salary over at a step 25 or
is that step 2? So this is our best, and where we are now a new structure this
is one of the challenges we've faced in terms of how we've actually captured the
data.
With
respect to we've noted a number of the changes in terms of dollar values and
variances. We've noticed those as being attributable to zero-based budgeting. I
think I just want to highlight that given this has been a multi-year approach to
a transition of Human Resource Secretariat, there is a component there of
zero-based budgeting, but there's also, from a savings perspective, the
annualization of changes that were previously enacted to facilitate a new
structure, which combined with the zero-based exercise. So as we go through we
can address any questions that arise. We just wanted to note in terms of the
presentation of the material.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'd ask Geoff just to
clarify for a second when he gets a chance to get a glass of water. When he
mentioned the consolidated change in management and the number of positions, I
think you mentioned 48 per cent, was it, reduction in management?
MR. WILLIAMS:
In senior management.
MS. C. BENNETT:
In senior management, and
that's over how many years?
MR. WILLIAMS:
In terms of the change of managers, in large part that was in bulk imposed this
particular year, Minister.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Right.
So the
Members of the Committee – and I'm sure you already have, I can imagine that
you've already done this work. If you look to the total spend for the department
you would see that it's down from $20,200,000 down to $17,900,000, a difference
of $2.3 million, and that French Services would have moved out of this
department as a whole.
I just
wanted to point that out as a flag. I'm sure the Members of the Committee have
already looked at that but I just wanted to call it out. So I turn it back to
you, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Minister.
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
If I
could, I'd just ask Mr. Williams to provide some information here and put some
context just to clarify. So the 48 senior management positions, are they out
now, taken out this current year; or was it over a period of time, with the
transition?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Mr. Hutchings, with respect
to the change, it was 48 per cent, just to clarify, not 48 positions –
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Oh, percent; I am sorry.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Forty-eight per cent, sorry,
just to clarify that.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes.
So 48
per cent of the senior management have been transferred out somewhere else or
the positions have been eliminated; I just need to understand.
MR. WILLIAMS:
In large part, the positions
have been eliminated.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
In some cases, we
re-profiled a small number of those, so we changed them from directors to
managers. But, for the most part, those positions have been abolished from the
organization.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
And from a reorganization
point of view that 48 per cent is done pretty well, is it?
MR. WILLIAMS:
That would be correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
You
mentioned classifications. Obviously, as you just said, in terms of moving some
of those positions around, they would require reclassification as well. So
that's done as well; is that correct?
MR. WILLIAMS:
In large part, yes, that's
correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
So 48
per cent and you also used the number 72 – was that 72 positions? What was the
72 again?
MR. WILLIAMS:
That is the 72 positions
that have been eliminated from the HRS structure that will be eliminated at the
point of conclusion. As I mentioned, next year that will be the final phase.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Is
there a connection between the 48 per cent and the 72? Is the 48 per cent 72
positions or …?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Of the 72 positions being
eliminated, the 48 per cent represents the actual change in senior management
level positions of the 72.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
The 72
would have both senior level and others as well?
MR. WILLIAMS:
That would be correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sorry, if I might, I'd
remind the Members of the Committee that last year when we were in Estimates we
had discussions around some of the decisions that were made in last year's
budget that would have impacted the department. Some of those decisions were
based on operational improvements and operational efficiency, and that's one of
the reasons why we wanted to make sure that the assistant deputy team was here
tonight to provide some texture as to what those operational changes were.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure, thanks.
Minister, you indicated in regard to the total at the end there was a $2.3
million less. Is that all related to French Services coming out? No?
MS. C. BENNETT:
No, I don't have the
information with me right here. I'm not sure if Wanda has, but I don't have the
information on French Services. That $2.3 million comparison from last year to
this year you'd also have to take out the French Services which moved out of the
department altogether. As Members of the House would know, Minister Trimper is
the minister responsible for Service NL and he's the minister responsible for
French Services, so it made sense for him to have that close to him for proper
oversight.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
I know
last year – and I mentioned this earlier in the prior session – you talked about
650 FTEs and 200 were in core public service. Some of the numbers we're talking
about here, would they be factored in as FTEs in that 200 number from last year?
MS. C. BENNETT:
From last year? Some of
those would be.
Geoff,
do you want to speak to that?
Mr.
Hutchings, just for clarity, the document I would have shared with you earlier
this week, which was the reconciliation of that –
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah.
MS. C. BENNETT:
– would have had numbers on there that would have reflected the actions that the
department would have taken in last fiscal year.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
It may include some of
these.
MS. C. BENNETT:
May include some of those.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
If we
could, I'll just go to some line items here to begin. At 3.1.01, if you look at
the salary change, there was an initial estimate last year, it rose to a
revision and this year there's a considerable reduction in that. I'm just
wondering if you could give some commentary on that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
That would have reflected
the savings that would have been identified through the zero-based budgeting
process which was part of the – one of the items that Mr. Williams mentioned was
the restructuring.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes.
MS. C. BENNETT:
That would have been the
shifting in the Salaries that would have been saved.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Do you want to add anything,
Geoff?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah, so basically what
you're telling me is the reorganization from nine to 12, was it, we went?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah, so just maybe just in
paraphrasing what the deputy has already said, we went from nine divisions to 12
at the same time as we shrunk the overall spend. The numbers in each line item,
particularly around Salaries, as individuals were changed and moved, or if an
ADM position was eliminated, things like that, they would be reflected in this.
It's going to be hard to track identically the last year.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah. Sure.
MS. C. BENNETT:
And that's one of the
reasons why I want to make sure that the deputy had a chance to kind of describe
the structure of the department, because it's changed significantly from what it
was two years ago.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
I'll
just ask this question I have here and you've probably answered it already, but
I'll just ask it. If you go back and look at last year's Estimates, the number
that was used then for the estimate I think – say for example, Salaries was
$790,300, this year that estimate is $812,600. So that would be due to the
revision, I guess, of Salaries moving back and forth?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sorry, I'm not following.
Are you still at 3.1 –?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
At 3.1.01, Salaries.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
If you looked at the budget
document from 2016 under Salaries, it would have gave an estimate of $790,300.
If you look at the 2016-2017 document this year and budget, it says $812,600, so
there's a difference in the two. The estimate has been changed from what was
last year to what's put in this year, but I guess that's reorganization of
Salaries and those types of things?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sorry, before I provide an
answer I just want to make sure I clearly understand. The restated original
budget for '16-'17 of $812,000, Wanda, do you want to speak to it?
MS. TRICKETT:
Yes, you are correct. The
difference is last year in the 2016-'17
Estimates book it states what the original budget was intended to be.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes.
MS. TRICKETT:
And what you're seeing this
year at $812,600 is reflective of the restatement of the reorganization.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
During the year, right.
MS. TRICKETT:
Yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. We'll see that from
time to time as we go through?
MS. TRICKETT:
You will see that a lot,
yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
I guess instead of asking it
all the way through, it's just that it is reorganization of the envelope from
what you've done in restructuring.
MS. TRICKETT:
Correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
That's
all I have on 3.1.01.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Mr. Hutchings.
Ms.
Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
I'm sorry, I was being
distracted here.
I
really don't want to go through every single salary head and ask questions about
it because of what you've described. We know that 72 positions are eliminated,
so all the differences there that we see are the reflection of the reorganizing
and the loss of the position. There's no sense going through every single head
and asking because it seems to me you've got different positions, different
names, et cetera. Is that correct?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
That's accurate?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Absolutely. As the
controller just mentioned, the restated original budgets were to take last
year's –
MS. MICHAEL:
Oh, I understand restatement
of the budget, yeah. I understand that you can't go back and look because it's
going to be restated.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
MS. MICHAEL:
That's not a problem for me
at all.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Okay.
MS. MICHAEL:
With regard to the 72
eliminated positions, I'm assuming that there were individuals in those
positions. How many actual people are no longer working in the system because of
the loss of the 72 positions?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Ms. Michael, in terms of that, I can get you that specific information. We still
have a couple left to do.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I can certainly get you the information to date of which ones have vacancies and
which ones had incumbents in it. I can certainly do that.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
Thank
you very much.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Ms. Michael, I'm not sure, I
don't remember the other day; I shared some information with Mr. Hutchings
around the FTEs from last year based on a question that he had asked. I don't
think – I'm assuming it would have been tabled but I don't know if you've
received it.
We'll
provide you with that information as well because it reflects the information we
shared in the budget last year about the FTE impacts. So we'll give you that
same information.
MS. MICHAEL:
If that's the information
you tabled based on his questions, yes, we have all that information.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Okay.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yeah. Thank you very much.
With
regard again to the 72 positions and in terms of elimination and vacancies, are
there any – I'm just doing it across the board now because it just seems to be
the better way to do it. Are there any vacancies right now that aren't filled?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes, there would be some vacancies. A minimum number, though, that are not
filled. We're certainly intently trying to fill those, given our reduced
structure and size.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right. Thank you very much.
Okay,
so let's move on then. Coming down to 3.1.02, I'm just going to pick on numbers
that are significant. Under Professional Services, the budget is $171,600 and it
was underspent by $27,000 approximately. Then it's going down again this year.
What was the change in the Professional Services for this loss of money in that
line?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Ms. Michael, I just want to
confirm that we're on the same number.
MS. MICHAEL:
3.1.02.
MS. C. BENNETT:
And your question is related
to the changes in Professional Services?
MS. MICHAEL:
Professional Services, yes.
MS. C. BENNETT:
The Professional Services
change and the projected revised reflects an overrun from the '16-'17 budget due
to higher than anticipated investigations.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. C. BENNETT:
And the $28,300, which is
the difference in the Professional Services budget for '17-'18, reflects a
decrease in the budget as identified under the zero-based budgeting.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. So it's not that any
services that are needed are going to be lost because of this.
Thank
you very much.
And
you're correct, I said it was under by $27,100 but it was over by $27,100.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Right.
MS. MICHAEL:
So that's why I confused
you, I think.
With
regard to the Purchased Services, here we do see a big jump upwards in the
Estimates for this year in relation to the estimate in the budget for last year,
so $68,800 more. What do you see happening under Purchased Services?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah. When the department
would have undergone zero-based budgeting, if there were items that were
identified – and certainly in this department's case with the significant reorg,
if there were items that were not identified as being allocated to a certain
line item, it would have increased the budget. In this case, that's what
happened with this particular number, $68,000. It was identified that these were
expenses in zero-based budgeting when we looked at it that should have been
allocated to this particular heading.
MS. MICHAEL:
Oh, got it. Okay. Thank you.
Coming
down to – a lot of my questioning was going to be about the Salaries, but I
don't have to do that now. I'm not going to question small amounts, but under
3.1.03, the Purchased Services, there's a drop in the Purchased Services there.
Is that because of zero-based budgeting? It's a drop of $2,500.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Okay. Yes, that would have
been zero-based budgeting.
Geoff,
did you want to add anything?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No, that's correct.
MS. C. BENNETT:
No?
MS. MICHAEL:
Yeah, okay. Thank you very
much.
Coming
over, then, to 3.1.05.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Mr. Chair, I'm wondering as
we go through if we could maybe do the pages. It's much easier to do
(inaudible).
MS. MICHAEL:
Pardon?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
I'm just wondering as we go
through and do two subheadings on each page and maybe approve that (inaudible).
MS. MICHAEL:
Sure. Okay.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
It's just tough going back
and forth.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. It's fine with me, Mr.
Chair, if that's what we want to do.
CHAIR:
It certainly makes sense, I
guess. Again, my first time, please bear with me here as Chair.
Typically, my understanding was by subhead. So for 3.1 we wouldn't vote until we
got to 3.2.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
(Inaudible) to follow. If
you go ahead two or three subheadings, then you have to come back.
CHAIR:
Sure.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So it's just much easier.
CHAIR:
No, for ease of the process
and staff and everyone following.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
I just have one question on
3.1.02, Lorraine, if that's okay.
MS. MICHAEL:
That's fine. Why don't I
stop and you go up to 3.2 up to 04.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
CHAIR:
Okay, excellent.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
3.1.02, Employee Relations,
the Professional Services there, is that related to negotiations, that heading,
or would that be under another heading in terms of public service or hiring
resources for that or outside resources?
MS. C. BENNETT:
No.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
No.
MS. C. BENNETT:
No.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
That's just related to
arbitration, mediation, investigation, those types of activities.
MR. WILLIAMS:
That would be correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
I think
I'm fine with that.
CHAIR:
That's all for you for
3.1.02?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes.
CHAIR:
Ms. Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
I have another question with
regard to 3.1.04. Can I go on to that?
CHAIR:
If we'll move on, then
that's fine. So we'll do 3.1.03 to 3.1.04 inclusive.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
CHAIR:
There you are, Ms. Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
My question has to do with
the job evaluations, the JES reviews. I think in May last year there were 730
that were outstanding. What is the status now of the job reviews?
MR. JOYCE:
You're talking about the
JES?
MS. MICHAEL:
JES, yes.
MR. JOYCE:
JES classification
outstanding is 472.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
How
long is it estimated that this list can be brought down even more?
MR. JOYCE:
Ms. Michael, we're working
very diligently on those on a daily basis, bearing in mind the staff we have.
We're trying to turn them over within a three-month period as a rotation. The
direct result of the JES that was implemented last year, we see a reduction now,
a decrease in the number that's coming in under the JES. So we're trying to deal
with the ones we have on the books right now.
MS. MICHAEL:
May I ask, Minister, are
these reviews identified within departments or identified by HR Secretariat?
MR. WILLIAMS:
To add to what Mr. Joyce
just indicated there, in terms of the JES process with respect to those reviews,
we are – further to George's comments, Mr. Joyce's comments – attempting to
streamline how we do that. The documentation involved in a review, as a minimal
it's a very lengthy document, probably 50-plus pages of documentation which is a
very manual, tedious exercise to review it.
In
order to get that timeline down in terms of completing a review, we are working
through and trying to work through some additional lean concepts to see if we
can shave that time off, recognizing that the impact on an individual waiting
for a review could be significant from stress on the individual in the
workplace. So we are moving forward with that, trying to see as best we can to
scale down the process to see how we can do it.
I'm
sorry, Ms. Michael, I didn't understand quite the last question you had with
respect to the reviews, the HRS. Sorry.
MS. MICHAEL:
The reviews that have to be
done, are they identified within a department and passed to you or are you the
ones who are identifying reviews that need to be done?
MR. WILLIAMS:
There can be a number of ways a review would be done. It could be submitted
through a department and an employee to Human Resource Secretariat. The numbers
that Mr. Joyce indicated, those are ones actually in the possession of Human
Resource Secretariat and are actively being worked on. That would be the process
that would be followed. It's initiated either by the employee or by the
supervisor or manager who may feel there's a need for a review to occur.
As I
say, that's the number; those are the ones we have within our possession and
actively working on.
MS. MICHAEL:
One more question: About how
many come in over a year?
MR. WILLIAMS:
George, do you have any stats?
MR. JOYCE:
I can say that approximately 70 per cent of the requests for JES – or 70 per
cent of the 472 were the result of JES.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MR. JOYCE:
Would that answer your question?
MS. MICHAEL:
I'm just wondering on a
yearly basis how many new ones come in.
MR. JOYCE:
I can't directly answer that question but I can get that information for you in
terms of on an annual basis. Is that fair?
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes, thank you very much.
Okay,
Chair, I'll turn it over to Mr. Hutchings now.
CHAIR:
That's all for you on 3.1.03
to 3.1.04.
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, thank you.
3.1.03,
the salary provision there on that one from what was budgeted last year, the
revision was down and then it was down again for the estimate for this year,
'17-'18.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes, the decrease in the
projected revised budget reflects a savings due to a vacancy. It's just over
$19,000.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
In the '17-'18 number, that
reflects a decrease as identified under zero-based budgeting. And again, any
salary savings that would have been driven from the restructuring, et cetera,
would have been either allocated to annualization of last year's initiatives or
zero-based budgeting and that's what you're seeing here.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
3.1.04,
in the Salaries again there's a little over $400,000. Is that related to
specific job reductions and the numbers we talked about earlier?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Do you want to take that
one?
MR. WILLIAMS:
It is related to job
reductions in the sense that was specifically a component of money that was set
aside to assist with the job of cleaning up or making some end roads on the
reviews associated with the Job Evaluation System.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
So that was one-time money
which had been allocated to assist with that particular project.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Just on that note, I know
last year in Estimates we asked for an update, and I think there were 730 that
were left at that point in time. And I think the commentary was by the end of
2016, the last quarter, we should be okay, but I think the update now is that
there are 472 that are left.
You're
indicating that special funding that was put in place last year to deal with
those has now been removed, so I'm just wondering, going forward, how we're
going to meet the objective and deal with these. It seems from last year, the
plan respectively hasn't met its target so how are we going to deal with what's
left there on the books?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Just for clarity, I think
the assistant deputy minister mentioned that of the 400 plus that are remaining,
only about 70 per cent of them are related to JES.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
As the deputy minister has
already indicated there is ongoing work from last year to this year to review
the process and try to streamline through the administrative functions.
I had
the opportunity last year, when I became minister, to tour the unit that was
doing this work and had extensive conversations with the employees that were
working there at that time on the process they were using. The department
undertook in the last 12 or 18 months a continuous improvement effort to try to
lean the process so that it would provide us the ability to do the last portion
of the JES faster than the first series were done when the JES was originally
brought in.
We're
optimistic that, based on what we've learned in the last year, we'll continue to
be able to work through these in a timely way, respecting the fact that
employees are certainly owed and expect an answer as quickly as possible. We
intend to do what we can to get those answers to them.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So roughly it would be about
350 JES that are left, that's 70 per cent?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So the new process, or some
of, I guess, the efficiencies that you identified that you could do, are they in
place now and you're working through those?
MS. C. BENNETT:
And continuing to improve.
If there's a process that's identified by officials in the department that will
help speed things up, they'll continue to look at that.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, thank you.
That's
good for me on 3.1.04.
CHAIR:
Okay.
As we
agreed, I guess, to go a page at a time, I'll call the vote from 3.1.01 to
3.1.04 inclusive.
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
Against?
Carried.
On
motion, subheads 3.1.01 through 3.1.04 carried.
CHAIR:
Okay, 3.1.05.
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, thank you.
CHAIR:
Oh, sorry, 3.1.05 through
3.1.06.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
Just on
the Salaries one again, there's a reduction of approximately $546,000 compared
to 2016-2017. Again, could you give some feedback on whether that's related to
specific job reductions we may have spoken on earlier?
MR. WILLIAMS:
In terms of that reduction, it's a combination of a couple of things. It's a
combination of the reorganization within the Human Resource Secretariat which is
a commentary which would have applied to other changes that have occurred, and
as well, it is a reflection of the new revised mandate of the CLD which does
involve some position eliminations. Some of those 72 are captured here within
the Centre for Learning and Development as well.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So this would be one of the
headings that in your original commentary you talked about that was being
restructured and technology was being used to advance. Is this the one?
MR. WILLIAMS:
It is the same division, but indeed, yes, we are using more of a technology
based.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Right.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And the focus is more so on
the compliance-based, legislated required training.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
So the
shortfall in Salaries, you believe you can continue to provide a high level of
service based on the attachment of technology and the use of that, so we're not
losing the service I guess. You still maintain the service even though you have
less salary through technology. Would that be fair to say?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes, technology is a significant component of it and, as well, we are very
focused on the training we're actually providing. So our training is more
focused on the compliance and legislative based, and technology is the other key
component, yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
Under
that same heading, 3.1.05, under Professional Services, we've seen a significant
budget increase there from the estimate was, what the revision was, everything
was used and now a significant increase this year in terms of $360,000. I was
just wondering if you could give me some details on that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Sure.
MR. WILLIAMS:
In terms of the changes there, there are really two components of that
Professional Services increase. One is instead of producing in-house some of the
e-learning modules, we are going to have those provided to us, as opposed
producing them in-house, and that will be consistent with our greater focus on
technology-based training. So that would be one component of the increase with
respect to the Professional Services.
The
other component of the increase would be attributable to a change management
function, ensuring we are prepared as an organization for the change management,
given the order of change that's occurring within the Human Resource
Secretariat.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes.
MR. WILLIAMS:
So that's the two components
that are made up there. And more specifically, with respect to the e-learning
modules, we're anticipating perhaps anywhere the need from eight to 10 of those
to be produced this year to facilitate the training requirements of the public
service.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So the providers of those
e-learning modules, would they be an outside contractor or consultant?
MR. WILLIAMS:
That would be outside resource, correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So have they been already
identified who that would be?
MR. WILLIAMS:
With respect to whether they're already identified, I don't think they've
already been identified per se, and I could get you information. There are
certain ones – obviously, folks who have an expertise in that area, but there is
more –
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Desire2Learn is one that
comes to mind. They're involved with a number of agencies.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
And the
second component would be, for the change management point of view, the same
sort of thing; you would contract out those services for someone to provide that
assistance to you.
MR. WILLIAMS:
In large part, yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
If I might add, I wanted to
make sure that the Committee wasn't left with the impression that this is an
ongoing purchase of e-learning on an annual basis. This provides us the
opportunity to do the one-time purchasing of the modules that they would need to
provide the critical training. So it's one time.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure. They would create the
modules and you would take them and use them as –
MS. C. BENNETT:
Or the modules may already
be created depending on what the topic is and we'd purchase the module and be
able to use it. Not necessarily would it lead into purchasing the same module on
an annual basis. You'd only purchase a module once you needed it. You'd use it
until it was irrelevant and then you'd have to purchase another one.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes, so in some cases it
would be a one-time spend, really.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Right.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Right. Okay, thank you.
There's
just some reference here to 3.1.05 in regard to federal-provincial revenue.
Could you just give me an understanding of what that would be, both of those?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes, most of that's related
to French language training and the contracts for French language training.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
And you
would provide it to federal agencies and provincial and you would bill it back?
How does that work?
MR. WILLIAMS:
With respect, that is correct. It could be both entities. For example, health
care in terms of self-paced French language training that would be billed, and
the same thing, federal government agencies, that's where the revenue would come
from there.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, thank you.
3.1.06,
Organizational Development Initiative, just if you could give me some commentary
on Salaries there from what was budgeted last year, almost less than half was
spent, and then this year the envelope has been readjusted as well.
MR. WILLIAMS:
With respect to the
Organizational Development Initiative, this is money allocated for salaries not
for individuals assigned to this particular division, but this is money that can
be availed of through government departments to assist with developmental
opportunities or increasing knowledge base of staff. This is money that's
allocated for departments to avail of to hire or engage people. There's not a
salary – there's no staff assigned to this, for example; this is money that's
available for departments to use.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Like in-house training,
something (inaudible).
MR. WILLIAMS:
In-house training, or a
typical example we'd see is that a department may have a need for an additional
financial resource and they may not have a position available but they may seek
a developmental opportunity. They may say, look, for six months, we'd like to
have somebody come work with us on a financial management project and this will
be where they could avail of funding to assist them with that process.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
My last
question on 3.1.06 is: Purchased Services, we seen what was budgeted last year
wasn't used and then the estimate for this year is down from last year's
estimate. Just give me some understanding of that; that was Purchased Services.
MR. WILLIAMS:
With respect to the
Purchased Services here, two points, Mr. Hutchings; one, with respect to the
first part of your question dealing with the reduced spending from the original
budget that would have been with respect to training that had been identified by
departments. However, for operational reasons or other reasons, it couldn't be
facilitated, so that would explain the less-than-anticipated spending there.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And I'm sorry, did you have
a second component to that question?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah, the restatement for
this year based on last year is significantly lower; it's $987,000. I'm just
wondering is that zero-based budgeting or just reassessing what you actually
need.
MS. C. BENNETT:
With the lower uptake last
year, a decision would have been made to reduce to more accurately reflect what
the uptake had been.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
That's
good for me, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Hutchings.
Ms.
Michael, 3.1.05 through 3.1.06.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Chair.
Mr.
Hutchings has covered all the questions I have, except one. That has to do with
the French language training. There have been concerns that have been brought to
me and there was one that I actually had to bring into the House of Assembly. I
did work with Minister Trimper a bit on that.
I guess
my first question is, so I'll get a good handle of what is happening, how much
of the French language training is now dependent on the module model with a
student with a computer, and how much is still face-to-face training?
MR. WILLIAMS:
With respect to that question, in terms of the percentage, I don't feel
comfortable now identifying the percentage but certainly that's a piece of
information I can get back to you on, the actual percentage that is. Essentially
you're looking for a distinction between classroom based versus module based
with a self-paced learning module.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Certainly, I can identify that for you.
MS. MICHAEL:
Well, I think I'd also like some information on what exactly is included in the
module model. I speak French, I taught French, I know what it is to learn a
second language and I have real concerns. One of the most important things is
the classroom base from the perspective of the communication and learning to
communicate freely and fluently.
So it would be interesting for me to know what's actually
involved in the modules because there can be some things that can be done that
way, but I wouldn't want to see somebody dependent only on modules, student
based with a module. I think there has to be more than that. So I really would
like a real understanding of what is happening to the French language training.
I have real concerns about it.
And the case that was brought to me – and I guess this is
all under your department – specifically was a nurse from the Health Sciences
who really needs it. She actually gets called upon because she's one of the few
who has been studying French and sometimes she is in one part of the hospital
and gets called to another part. Yet when she applied for her training this
year, she was told no, tough luck; you're going to have to wait. Even though
it's not written in her job description, there's an expectation. I don't why it
happened so quickly but after this all became public, she did get word there was
space and she's in a classroom now, which is good.
But I think there needs to be real evaluation of why
somebody is looking for the French language training, how much of it is
absolutely essential to the person. There are some cases,
like our director of communications did extremely well in doing that and she
actually has done the testing, examinations and she's considered now under the
French language international qualifications to be bilingual. It's great that
she can speak French, but it's not essential. It is really good that
communication people can deal with Radio-Canada and not just with CBC, et
cetera.
In the
case of the nurse I'm talking about, that has become an essential part of her
work. So I'm concerned about how the decisions are getting made, or in the
future will be getting made.
MS. C. BENNETT:
As Mr. Williams has said, he
can certainly provide an overview of the current program, its structure and how
it's delivered.
With
regard to the specific example that you mentioned in Health, I'll certainly
speak to the Minister of Health because they're having conversations about
recognizing that a French need could happen anywhere, anytime, in any place in
our hospital system and that there may be a way to use technology for electronic
translation of files. It doesn't solve the patient concern, but it certainly
should be able to expedite communication, particularly around medical files.
It's something he spoke to me recently about, and we can certainly continue to
provide the Member opposite with some information.
Mr.
Williams will get back to you, or somebody from the department will get back to
you with the curriculum layout and we'll certainly give you those answers.
MS. MICHAEL:
Could I make one more point,
Minister?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Absolutely.
MS. MICHAEL:
I think there's much more to
it than just the medical files being translated. The province I think is in a
contractual situation with the Saint Pierre and Miquelon government, for
example. I think if they're going to continue having patients come here, they
need to know that somebody who's in a bed and can't speak a word of English is
being taken care of, and translation of files is not doing that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
No, and if I replay the
answer I gave you, I said that that was one of the components that would help.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes, I heard that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Certainly not the only one,
and I think I referenced bedside and patient communications as being a critical
element, but certainly those challenges in health care are something that Health
would continue to be reviewing and looking at. What we'll provide is the Centre
for Learning's curriculum as per your request and provide you some visibility
into how that program is being delivered.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay, thank you very much.
That's
all I have for that page.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Ms. Michael.
Shall
3.1.05 through 3.1.06 carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, subheads 3.1.05 through 3.1.06 carried.
CHAIR:
3.1.07 through 3.1.08
inclusive.
Ms.
Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
Not a
lot here. Under 3.1.07, Employee Benefits, last year there was an overspend of
$34,500. Can we have an explanation of that, please?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes, it's related to higher
than anticipated Workers' Compensation costs.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay.
I'm
assuming Employee Benefits here is similar to other Employee Benefits line,
again, somebody going to a conference, that kind of thing?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes, okay.
Thank
you very much.
I don't
have anything else under that one. That's 3.1.07.
In
3.1.08, I don't have anything significant there either. You are dropping down,
though, from the budget last year, $33,000 down to $27,000. It's only $6,000,
but was that just zero-based budgeting?
MR. WILLIAMS:
That is correct.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you.
Under
the explanation of what happens in this division or section, I'm not sure what
the right term is: “Appropriations provide for the management and direction of
highly confidential and sensitive human resource management (HRM) issues
requiring attention at the most senior levels across client organizations.” So
there's a reference to client organizations and unique client needs. Who exactly
are the clients who are being served here?
MS. FOLLETT:
Ms. Michael, this particular division has been established in order to respond
to the needs of our executive clientele throughout the public service. So
effectively, when we restructured, we took a lot of duplication out of our
structure and we had built upon a number of surveys and research that we had
conducted. We had conducted a client-needs survey, and in that survey our
executive clientele had advised us that they had a need for personal and easy
access to our services.
The
nature of the type of issues that are addressed through this division involve
some of the higher complexity or escalated issues, which would involve things
like particular investigations. Certainly, the recent example of the Flatter,
Leaner Management initiative is also another example of the type of work that
these individuals would do.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. And this would include
executive level, both in departments, statutory offices and agencies of
government?
MS. FOLLETT:
It's primarily for the executive group of our core government departments but
there are some agencies that are tied in there if they are aligned with
particular departments, yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay. Thank you.
That's
all I have for those two sections.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Ms. Michael.
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, section 3.1.07, in the preamble there and some of the information
given: Would that be one of the new headings?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'm sorry, I was turning the
page and I didn't hear the Member opposite. Sorry.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
No problem.
3.1.07,
Employee Safety and Wellness.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Would that be a new division
in the restructuring that has come about?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes, it is.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So, if I remember correctly,
in the past a health and safety issue and case management of injured workers,
and Occupational Health and Safety, that may have been done individually in
departments. Is there a change in that now? Is that all under this heading here,
under the Secretariat?
MR. WILLIAMS:
In terms of the overall governance function of occupational health and safety,
yes, it would fall within this department, within this division; however, there
are still departments with resources in-house that will be facilitating on the
ground such things as risk assessments, some things – this division doesn't have
a staff which is working in every department doing a risk assessment or hazard
assessment. This group will be providing assistance and expertise as to how you
would in the department conduct a risk assessment, for example.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. They provide some
oversight in what's happening in the department.
MR. WILLIAMS:
They provide some oversight, and I think it would be fair to say that they might
take a department through maybe the first one or two assessments.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Sure. The expertise would
lie here.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Exactly, correct.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. Thank you.
Okay,
I'm good.
CHAIR:
Excellent.
Shall
3.1.07 through 3.1.08 carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, subheads 3.1.07 through 3.1.08 carried.
CHAIR:
3.1.09 through 3.1.10.
Mr.
Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you.
3.1.09,
Service Centre and Corporate Services Delivery; Professional Services, there's a
small increase there from last year, what was revised, and this year
Professional Services has gone up to $55,000. I wonder if you could just give me
some details on that.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes, this is related to new
funding approved in Budget 2017
associated with the group insurance plan and it'll be recovered through revenue.
So it's net zero when it's netted against revenue.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
And the revenue would come
from where?
MS. C. BENNETT:
If you look down at the
$250,000 on the bottom, you'll see that's going to be recovered from
Professional Services related to the group insurance plan.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay. What kind of
professional services would they be? What would that exactly be?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'm assuming it's the group
insurance team.
OFFICIAL:
Yes, it is, yeah.
MS. C. BENNETT:
The group insurance team is
doing some work. It will be recovered from that particular team that manages the
group insurance.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I'm going to let the deputy
provide extra colour, seeing that it is 8:33 at night and I want to make sure
Mr. Hutchings gets the precise answer, a little bit more precisely then I just
gave.
Mr.
Williams.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
A lot of pressure.
MR. WILLIAMS:
This will be consulting
services where the group may need to engage a consultant to help them determine
industry trends on a particular renewal or particular issue or they'll be asking
some consultants to provide some assistance in looking at industry trends among
other factors.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Geoff, can you add where the
revenue comes from then? It comes from the –
MR. WILLIAMS:
(Inaudible.)
MS. C. BENNETT:
Do you want to add it?
MS. TRICKETT:
Sure.
MS. C. BENNETT:
I think I know.
MS. TRICKETT:
The services, if we engage
with a consultant as the deputy had alluded to, would be recovered through the
group insurance plan.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So you would charge it back
to the group insurance and they'd reimburse it.
MS. TRICKETT:
Correct, yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Perfect, okay.
Where
the Public Service Pension Plan is now an outside corporation; is there any
effect on this here? Has there been any effect on this function here? No. It's
two different – separate.
MS. C. BENNETT:
No, it's two different
things.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
3.1.10,
Payroll and Benefits, we see in Salaries there was a significant increase from
last year, what was budgeted to what the revision was. Could we just get some
understanding of that?
MS. C. BENNETT:
That would have been due to
severance and related benefits combined with an overall budget shortage in this
particular account.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, and that I assume was
related to the restructuring and some of the positions and percentages we talked
about when we started, right?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, and it's gone back
down again.
That's
good for me, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR:
Thank you, Mr. Hutchings.
Ms.
Michael, 3.1.09 and 3.1.10.
MS. MICHAEL:
Yes, I guess I just have a
general question. You identified these as two of the new, sort of, divisions of
the 12. So where was this work done before in the old structure?
MS. FOLLETT:
Ms. Michael, previously, we had a number of Strategic Human Resource Management
units. What we found – and again in applying concepts of Lean and some of the
investigation that we conducted – is that there was a lot of duplication in
having the SHRM units, as they're called, in place at the time. So, effectively,
we were conducting a process but we always had a middle piece to the flow of the
piece of work. So it was causing interruption and a number of different
handoffs, so it was causing a lot of duplication, as I said, and a particular
waste, we felt, of the resources that we had.
So some
of this work was being conducted through the SHRM units. The work in those
particular units has now been smoothed out across our broader organization and
we've become more functionally aligned. You'll see that a number of our
consultant rolls, for example, in the SHRM units have been aligned now within
this particular service centre. They're been some aligned within the Executive
Client and Consulting Services division I just spoke of earlier and there are
also some that are currently aligned within the Staffing division. There are a
few also mixed in with some of the other divisions such as Employee Safety and
Wellness.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay, thank you very much.
This is
just a curiosity. Did you have to do physical changing inside of the department
because of all these new divisions?
MS. FOLLETT:
Yes, we do. We had to do some physical rearrangements and we found that the
closer the proximity, the easier the work is flowing for us, yes.
MS. MICHAEL:
Great, okay.
That's
all I have.
CHAIR:
Great.
Thank
you, Ms. Michael.
Anything further, Mr. Hutchings?
3.1.09
through 3.1.10.
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, subheads 3.1.09 through 3.1.10 carried.
CHAIR:
The final section, 3.1.11
through 3.1.12.
Ms.
Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much.
I
really didn't have any questions on 3.1.11.
With
regard to 3.1.12, is Opening Doors on its own in this division or is it managed
by Strategic Staffing?
MS. FOLLETT:
Yes, Ms. Michael, it has its own budget allocation as such, but it has been
consolidated within Staffing because a significant portion of what that program
does is centered around staffing activities.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right, understood.
I
wonder could we have an update of how many people are working under the program
now. Do you have that number?
MS. FOLLETT:
We have 82 positions that are funded through what is called our Opening Doors
program.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right.
MS. FOLLETT:
We currently have, I believe it's approximately five vacancies. There are other
vacancies; there are another five vacancies there but they're backfilled, if you
will, temporarily with registrants from the program. So we have about five
vacancies there currently and they are currently going through the competition
process as well.
MS. MICHAEL:
Okay, thank you very much.
I don't
think I have any other questions. No, I think that's it.
Thank
you.
CHAIR:
Thank you very much, Ms.
Michael.
Mr.
Hutchings, 3.1.11 through 3.1.12.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I
wonder if I could ask on 3.1.11, Salaries, there was a slight increase from what
was budgeted and then this year again the estimate has been readjusted as
opposed to last year.
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yeah.
You can
take this. It's the same answer as before.
MR. WILLIAMS:
In terms of, did you say a slight increase in what was budgeted from –?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Oh, I'm sorry, no.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I think it was –
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes, pretty close.
MR. WILLIAMS:
It was pretty close on.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah, and then it was
slightly reduced in this year's in the estimate.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right. And that would reflect the zero-based exercise and the restructuring of
HRS.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
So that wouldn't be probably
a position, I guess, it would just be –
MR. WILLIAMS:
The Salaries component?
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yeah, would that reduction,
would that be a position or would it be just – what would it reflect?
MS. C. BENNETT:
My understanding – and I could be wrong – is that the salary reduction is
related to last year's initiatives that were now annualized and that's what
you're seeing in here, right?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Exactly correct, yeah.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Those initiatives would be
what, what are we referring to?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Some of the things that
would have been listed last year in the budget as some of the changes that we
would have made under the Government Renewal Initiative.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. C. BENNETT:
They would have been
annualized and this salary line would be the reflection of an annualization of a
decision from last year.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, thank you.
So
3.1.12, Opening Doors, I think you indicated there were 82 positions for that
program.
MS. FOLLETT:
I'm sorry, Mr. Hutchings.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
I think you indicated there
were 82 positions.
MS. FOLLETT:
That's correct, yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay, and that's pretty
consistent is it? Okay.
The
federal revenue, that's under the Canada Job Fund. There's a labour market
disability component, there used to be, with the federal government. Does any of
that money flow in here or is it a different –?
MS. FOLLETT:
Yes, Mr. Hutchings, there's
a number of breakdowns around this particular funding. Some of it comes through
what's known as the ABCC Career Development Initiative.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
MS. FOLLETT:
Another portion comes
through the wage subsidy initiative LMDA, there's about $120,000 of that, and
that is for individuals who are EI eligible, unemployed or underemployed.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes, okay.
MS. FOLLETT:
Then the other piece is wage
subsidy initiative, which is what you just referred to, the Canada Job Fund –
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Yes.
MS. FOLLETT:
– and that's for registrants
who are non-EI eligible and are unemployed or underemployed.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Right. Wasn't that at one
time under AES?
MS. FOLLETT:
It is. It flows through AES
and then the money is referred into our coffers, yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
It flows through, okay. Yes,
that's what I was referring to. Okay.
I have
some general questions. I don't know if Ms. Michael has anything on the line
items or not.
MS. MICHAEL:
(Inaudible.)
MR. HUTCHINGS:
No.
Going
through, and maybe it's the restructuring; in the past we've talked about
McInnes Cooper and some contractual work that was done. Is there a heading here
that that would come under in terms of negotiations and where you could avail of
outside consultants?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Funding for McInnes Cooper
comes through the Department of Justice.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Is that
where it came in the past?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
Minister, would they still be used in the collective bargaining process today?
Still availing of services?
MS. C. BENNETT:
We're still availing of the
services.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
In the
Budget Speech there was mention of proposed wage freeze legislation for
management and non-unionized workers. Are we going to see that in the
legislation coming forward in this session?
MS. C. BENNETT:
Yes.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
Okay.
That's
all, thank you.
CHAIR:
Ms. Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
Just one more question I
think. With regard to the 72 positions that were eliminated, were all of those
in management or non-unionized positions?
MR. WILLIAMS:
They were all either, yes,
non-bargaining, non-management or management.
MS. MICHAEL:
Right, okay.
Thank
you very much.
CHAIR:
That's all?
Shall
3.1.11 and 3.1.12 carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, subheads 3.1.11 through 3.1.12 carried.
CHAIR:
The total. Shall the total
carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
On
motion, Human Resource Secretariat, total heads, carried.
On
motion, Estimates of the Public Service Commission, the Women's Policy Office
and the Human Resource Secretariat, carried without amendment.
CHAIR:
Any closing comments,
Minister?
MS. C. BENNETT:
I just want to take a quick
minute. As you can tell by the Estimates, there's been a significant amount of
change in this department and I think it would be appropriate to take a moment
to thank the leadership in the department as well as all of the team who work in
the Human Resource department. They have provided leadership through some new
projects this year and new work. They've been very supportive and extremely
professional when it comes to making sure HR policies and supports for our
workforce are in place.
They
are very focused on attention to detail, and I want to congratulate and thank
them for their work in preparing for not only the budget but the work they've
done in the last year, and I'd ask the Committee to join me in thanking them for
their preparation in tonight's Estimates.
MR. HUTCHINGS:
If I could, Mr. Chair, I
certainly recognize the staff as well in terms of the work they've done over –
certainly new initiatives. The minister may not always agree with it, but I
certainly recognize the work that's been done by officials. I've had the unique
experience of seeing firsthand the type of work these individuals do on a budget
and all year round. We recognize and say thank you for your work.
CHAIR:
Excellent. Thank you.
Ms.
Michael.
MS. MICHAEL:
I'd like to join my voice as
well. This had to have been an amazing job that you had to do. Thank you very
much for doing that so well, and for tonight as well, with your very clear
answers and helpful. I look forward to getting the materials that have been
promised to us, briefing books, of course, et cetera.
Thank
you so much.
CHAIR:
Thank you.
I'd
like to say thank you. Thank you for bearing with me as Vice-Chair of the
Committee and Chair this evening. I wish to thank the staff downstairs and our
Clerk. Thank you, Mr. Hutchings.
I'd
also like to advise the Committee that we will meet here again on Monday, May 8,
for the Department of Finance, Consolidated Fund Services and the Office of the
Chief Information Officer at 6 p.m.
Thank
you very much.
The Committee adjourned.