May 6, 2022
Pursuant to Standing Order 68, James Dinn, MHA for St. John's Centre,
substitutes for Jordan Brown, MHA for Labrador West.
The
Committee met at 1 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.
CHAIR (Pike):
Okay then, everyone, I'm going to call this meeting to order.
We have
one substitution today. We have MHA Dinn for MHA Brown. We don't have any
unaffiliated Members.
We can
take a break if you'd like one, or we can just go through to, hopefully, cut
down on how long we'll be here.
Just a
note to everyone, always identify yourself if you're speaking and wait for the
tally light each time. If you wave, the tally light will come on.
Consistent with protocols, we're asking that masks be worn in the Chamber by
employees unless they are speaking. It is discretionary for Members, but if
you're not feeling well and this goes on longer, you can certainly take your
mask down and breathe, because we know what that's like here in the House.
Members
and officials are reminded not to make any adjustments to their chairs – not the
Chair but to the chairs – because they're set for us. When I'm in the House, I'm
fooling around with mine all the time, up and down.
Water
coolers on each end of the House. We have glasses provided so you can use
glasses if you don't have your bottle or your cooler with you.
To
start the process, we just go through the identification of Committee Members;
the minister will speak. The Committee will have to move minutes and then the
Clerk will call the first subhead. I'll ask the Committee to identify
themselves. I'll ask the minister to identify departmental staff, which you can
do right away. The Chair brings the minutes of the previous meeting forward and
that's basically where we go with that.
So
we'll start. First, I will ask the Members of the Committee and any staff
attending to introduce themselves. Minister, you can do that too, as well.
So
we'll start.
S. STOODLEY:
Okay.
Hello,
I'm Sarah Stoodley, Minister of Digital Government and Service NL and MHA for
Mount Scio.
S. DUTTON:
I'm Sean Dutton, Deputy Minister of the department.
B. STEELE:
Bonnie Steele, Departmental Controller.
G. BOLAND:
Gail Boland, Assistant Deputy Minister, Digital Government and Services.
A. HILL:
Angelica Hill, Executive Assistant to the Minister.
K. DICKS-PEYTON:
Kathy Dicks-Peyton, Director of Communications.
CHAIR:
Okay. So we'll start over
here.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Loyola O'Driscoll, MHA for
the District of Ferryland.
M. WINTER:
Megan Winter, Researcher with the Official Opposition Caucus.
J. DINN:
Jim Dinn, MHA for St. John's
Centre.
S. KENT:
Steven Kent, Sessional Support for the Third Party Office.
B. POLLARD:
Ben Pollard, political staffer, Government Members' Office.
B. WARR:
Brian Warr, MHA, Baie Verte
- Green Bay.
L. STOYLES:
Lucy Stoyles, MHA, Mount
Pearl North.
CHAIR:
Okay, Minister, I'm going to
give you the floor and you have 15 minutes to speak and then we'll (inaudible).
CLERK (Jerrett):
Actually, I'm going to read
the subheads first.
CHAIR:
Okay, you can go ahead and
read the subheads.
CLERK:
Executive and Support
Services, 1.1.01 to 1.2.03.
S. STOODLEY:
Okay, thank you everyone for
joining
us.
This is our very hard-working team in Digital Government and Service NL. And I
would also like just to mention Scott Jones who is our assistant deputy minister
for Regulatory Affairs. He couldn't be here today, but Deputy Minister Dutton
certainly has all of that information as well.
I would also like to thank the Members who have joined us today. I do personally
think Estimates is a very important process. It is very important, I think, to
go through the budget line by line. So I certainly am very happy to be here and
answer any questions that anyone has.
We have already done the staff introductions.
So just to give you an overview for anyone watching or listening of our
department. So we do all of the licensing and inspections related to public
health. We do public safety, environmental protection inspections, provision of
vital document. We regulate the health and safety of employees in the workplace
with occupational health and safety, and we safeguard consumer interests. We
have Motor Registration Division. That gets a lot of media attention. So we do
driver testing, drivers' licences, vehicle registrations and photo ID cards. We
are responsible for safety on our roadways, on public highways and we do that
for a number of areas. And I guess, originally, or most recently, our department
was created with the goal of consolidating licensing, permitting, inspecting and
regulatory functions within government and then, where possible, provide a
single-window access to the public for those services.
We have over 150 pieces of legislation, standards and codes of practice which
give us that authority and we also have a lot of memorandums of understanding
with other departments. For example, with Health when we enforce or do
inspections or environmental protection, for example, the legislation and
regulations that we are enforcing belong in other departments. So there is a lot
of cross-departmental work that we do.
So we have a net budget of just over $27 million. In addition to the $8.3
million that is in our Estimates, there is also $111.4 million that does not
show up on our Estimates, but that goes right into general revenue. A big part
of that is from MRD. When you pay your now $90 for to renew your licence, that
does not show up in our Estimates; that goes right into general revenues. We
also get revenue from issuer fees, Registry of Deeds, and, like I mentioned,
Motor Registration fees.
So I would just like to highlight some changes since out last Estimates in our
department. We merged our divisions of Consumer Affairs and Financial Services
Regulation into a single division and we also received a transfer of income
support collections to our department from Immigration, Population Growth and
Skills. So I believe we have now most of the collections functions across
government. I think there are still a few left to come in, but we now hold most
of the collections
and we kind of brought Consumer Affairs and Financial Services Regulations
together. We got some efficiencies from that so I'm happy to chat about that as
we go.
Obviously, digital is a very important part of our department. I am also
responsible for the Office of the Chief Information Officer, which we discussed
in Committee recently – or two nights ago maybe.
Obviously, it's very important that we increase the number of online services
available to the public. Digital Government and Service NL and OCIO work with
all departments to increase the number of services available online.
Obviously, we were impacted by COVID-19, as were most departments, we assisted
other departments with their COVID online application forms and that kind of
stuff. MyGovNL, which I know is not at its best at the moment, we're happy to
talk about that further.
We also
oversee Occupational Health and Safety, which is a huge priority for our
department and the enforcement of that. We have legislation, codes and standards
for health and safety working conditions and the cost of all of that are
recovered from WorkplaceNL. So there is offsetting revenue for all expenditures
from Occupational Health and Safety.
We are
also responsible for the Office of French Services and I'm the Minister
Responsible for Francophone Affairs. So we do French-language training and
translation services to all the provincial government.
We are
also responsible for the Queen's Printer, which does most or all of the printing
for the provincial government and some of the agencies, boards and commissions
as needed.
So I
think most people in the province would interact Digital Government and Service
NL at least yearly so we're always looking to try to make that experience with
the residents easier and better and more efficient.
I guess
that concludes my remarks. I'm happy to answer any questions on anything that my
department – sometimes referred to as the lint trap of government – covers.
CHAIR:
Okay. Just before MHA
O'Driscoll speaks and asks questions, I need a mover for the minutes of April
11, 2022.
B. WARR:
(Inaudible.)
CHAIR:
Okay. Moved by MHA Warr.
On
motion, minutes adopted as circulated.
CHAIR:
So now we'll continue.
MHA
O'Driscoll.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Thank you, Chair.
It is
certainly a pleasure to be here again this Friday afternoon. Thank you all for
being here. I'm sure you do a great job for the minister in all the work you do.
I would like to say that I know how much work it is but it don't; I'm sure there
is a tremendous amount of work but I certainly do appreciate it.
First
of all, to start off, can we get a copy of the minister's briefing binder?
S. STOODLEY:
Yes, we have extra copies here and you can walk away with one when we're done.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay, perfect.
I just
have some general questions first and then I'll get into –
S. STOODLEY:
Sure.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Is the attrition plan still
being followed? If so, what are the changes for last year and this year?
S. STOODLEY:
We met our attrition target
for last year and we do not have an attrition target for the upcoming year.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
How
many people are employed in the department?
S. STOODLEY:
We have a grand total – at
the moment, we have 391 filled positions in Digital Government and Service NL.
Feel
free to interrupt what I'm saying at any time, team. Thank you.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
How many retirements
occurred in the last year?
S. STOODLEY:
We had 18 retirements in the
last year.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
How many vacancies are not
filled in that department?
S. STOODLEY:
We have 71 vacancies.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
So you
have a chance to fill them this year and be able to fill them I guess?
S. STOODLEY:
A lot of them are kind of
rolling. For example, at MRD we have a lot of people that come in and lot of
people come right in and then they apply for other internal jobs in government.
So it's like a steady stream of people that we train, unfortunately – we'd love
to keep them longer. It is a challenging work environment.
So just
for example of the 71, 25 of those are in MRD and we kind of need more just
because so many flow through MRD. Then, for example, we have highway enforcement
officers and they keep moving around the province. It's a lot of movement, I
would say, of roles within the provincial government.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I'm sure people serving on
the front counter; it's not easy to keep people there. I was in the service
industry so I totally understand that dealing with the public.
S. STOODLEY:
Yes.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Have any positions been
eliminated? If so, what are they?
S. STOODLEY:
I'm not aware of any
positions officially eliminated. We do have positions that we may not need to
fill or may be a lower priority to fill at any given time.
I don't
know if you wanted to expand on that?
S. DUTTON:
Sure.
The
minister alluded to the restructuring that took place in the Consumer Affairs
and Financial Services area. We've had some trade-off. So as opposed to
eliminating positions, we've reprioritized some of them and there are some
changes in classifications. We're going through the classification process now
on those where the duties have changed a little bit, but I guess in the big
picture we had a director for each division and two managers in one. At the end
of the process, we'd have one director and three managers so it would be
slightly cheaper in terms of the management complement and some of the staff
positions have moved around. So we've used some of the resources to focus
particularly on residential tenancies as an area where we want to increase our
staff complement to help meet the service demand.
In
Motor Registration, we've looked at our salary plan and we're focused on
particularly having sufficient number of staff for things like the call taking
and that sort of thing. So we've made some adjustments in the overall plan in
that respect as well.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
So I guess in that
transition, did you have any layoffs that occurred in the department now with
that last year? With the combined, when you did all that, were there any layoffs
that occurred?
S. DUTTON:
No.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
No, okay, good, all right.
How
many new hires took place last year?
S. STOODLEY:
We had 20 new hires.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
How
many contractual and short-term employees are in your department?
S. STOODLEY:
We don't have any
contractual, as far as I'm aware. We do have 12 people who have come in on short
contracts.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
And how many vacancies in
your department that have been vacant for over six months or longer? Do you have
that?
S. STOODLEY:
I don't have that
information on hand. I don't know if anyone else. We can certainly provide that.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yeah.
S. STOODLEY:
Yeah.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
And listen, if some of these
have to go back and get us an answer then that's fine, that's okay. Just to say
that, that's all.
S. STOODLEY:
Yeah.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Did you department receive
any funds from the COVID contingency fund? If so, what for?
S. STOODLEY:
I'm not aware of any funds
that we've received from the COVID contingency fund.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
You're normally collecting.
S. STOODLEY:
Pardon?
L. O'DRISCOLL:
You're normally collecting
money.
S. STOODLEY:
Yes, I mean, the federal
government funded the VaxPass, which we talked about that in OCIO, but there's
no provincial government contingency funding, no.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
I'm
going to move on to under section 1.2.01.
S. STOODLEY:
1.2.01.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I have some questions to go
back (inaudible).
S. STOODLEY:
Perfect, thank you.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Under Salaries, the budget
for Salaries increased to $1.4 million.
S. STOODLEY:
Yeah.
In
terms of Salaries under Executive Support, we've had kind of a transitional
deputy minister situation where we were sharing Deputy Minister Dutton for part
of the year. So now we have Sean as a full-time deputy minister. So that
aligned, considering then other vacancies throughout the year is why we need the
extra budget.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Employee Benefits, it went over budget. It was budgeted at $87,200. Last year,
$181,000 was spent. I believe that before that Employee Benefits went over
budget, could you please provide some detail – is the base budget being
increased because of that overspending?
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Under Employee Benefits, it
went over budget. It was budgeted at $87,200. Last year, $181,500 was spent. I
believe that before Employee Benefits went over budget, could you please provide
some detail – is the base budget being increased because of a pattern of
overspending?
S. STOODLEY:
This is all directly related
to workers' compensation charges. We had higher than anticipated workers'
compensation charges during the year, which is why it went up, and then it's
going up a bit again because we anticipate higher than what we had budgeted in
2021-2022. That is all related to workers' compensation charges.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Revenue - Provincial, can you outline – there's $104,100 less received than
anticipated.
S. STOODLEY:
When I mentioned
occupational health and safety, that is 100 per cent recovered from WorkplaceNL.
So as we kind of spend more time in occupational health and safety, we get more
revenue from them for that. We had less time, I guess, to bill back for
occupational health and safety related expenditures.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
1.2.02, can you explain why the Professional Services are included here?
Additionally there are significant savings last year, and how was that achieved?
S. STOODLEY:
Professional Services, so
this is the French Language Services.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yes.
S. STOODLEY:
Okay.
For
COVID and stuff, we had fewer demand for French translation. We have an
agreement with the federal government. We have three full-time French staff. We
do some translation in-house, and for bigger projects, or if we don't have
capacity, we use the federal government. We have an agreement with them and they
provide the remaining French translation services.
We did
not need as much French translation services in the past year, which is why we
didn't spend as much.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
1.2.03, Administrative Support, Purchased Services, can you detail what
purchased services fall in this line item, what accounts for the variance?
S. STOODLEY:
We're responsible for Vital
Statistics. There's a federal government project called the death registration
project, which is meant to have an automatic way for funeral homes, that they
would go into a website, they would put in that someone has passed away, and
then that information is connected with government and health and the federal
government so that everyone knows that there has been this death.
So
we're trying to reduce paperwork, and we're the first province to do this with
the federal government. That is why there is an increase. We carried forward
some of the money. So essentially, we won't receive any more of the death
registration money from the federal government because the project is nearing
completion.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Revenue - Federal, can you provide some insight as to where that $30,000 came
from?
S. STOODLEY:
So that is from the federal
government for the death registration project.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
From the federal government,
okay.
How far
are we going on this one? What section – just make sure I'm not gone ahead of
you, that's all. 2.1.01.
S. STOODLEY:
Okay.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
No, that's the next section.
Okay, that's it for this section.
S. STOODLEY:
Okay, thank you.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Perfect. That's why I was
asking; I wasn't sure.
CHAIR:
Okay, are you good?
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Well, until you go to the
next section, yes.
CHAIR:
Okay, thank you.
MHA
Dinn.
J. DINN:
Thank you, Chair.
The
Greene report recommended some form of privatization for motor vehicle and
Registry of Deeds. In a best and final offer RFP to Rothschild, PwC and Deloitte
from October last year, the government asked the bidders to devise a plan to
privatize provincial registries, along with four other entities. The proposed
completion date for the monetization of the provincial registries was November
2022, this year coming.
What
contact has your department had with Rothschild as it begins preparation to
monetize or sell off provincial assets? What is the plan for provincial
registries and what work has been undertaken so far to prepare it for
privatization?
S. STOODLEY:
We have received work from
Rothschild in terms of Cabinet documents, in terms of potentially looking at the
value of our registries. We have received that information from a Cabinet
context. We are currently evaluating the information that has been provided and
that is that state we are in right now.
J. DINN:
Okay. So you got their
documents and you know as to what they've considered the value of your services
would be and you're currently evaluating what they put down there.
S. STOODLEY:
We're evaluating what
they've given us in terms of registries.
J. DINN:
Okay. I guess what you're
looking at is whether their evaluation is correct or not?
S. STOODLEY:
We're reviewing the
documents they've provided in terms of the scope of the project in relation to
registries.
J. DINN:
Okay.
How is
the transition progressing to increase the number of services delivered online
by 75 per cent this year and what kinds of savings are these measures expected
to bring to the department and have they, in fact, materialized?
S. STOODLEY:
Sure, thank you. I'd be very
pleased to talk about all the new online services that we've created.
Residents can now apply for a charitable lottery licence online. So a lot of
this, I think as we talked earlier, we amalgamated two divisions within our
department which got rid of a leadership position and added a new lower level
leadership
position but then also allowed us to hire a new residential tenancies
adjudicator. So we kind of moved resources around our department.
You can apply for a charitable lottery licence online. We launched a new ability
to tell Motor Registration if you are transferring a vehicle online, because
before that was our longest appointment. It was like 40 minutes to transfer a
vehicle if you went in person or if you called and there was a lot of paperwork
that you had to mail in or drop off or fax. So now you can tell us about
transferring a vehicle online. That was a big priority for us and that was
launched last September, October.
So you can now do your MRD permit test online. This is, I guess, where we are
working with other departments to have other department's functionality in line.
You can get your woodcutting permit; your MCP renewal for dependants was a new
very highly used service. As part of the COVID-19 VaxPass, you could get your
vaccination record. We worked with IPGS on their Provincial Nominee Program
application. In terms of the COVID-19 government programs, there was the Small
Business Assistance Program application, the Tourism and Hospitality Support
Program application.
Within then, more focused on our department – we, obviously, have all of the
licensing for financial services. So like mortgage brokers and all of that
stuff. So there is a new online application process for the yearly renewal for
mortgage brokers, real estate brokers, real estate salespeople, pre-paid funeral
sales, licences – you apply for a licence, renew your licence, insurance broker
licences, and any of those that you need to renew you can do that online.
We also work with a lot of electrical contactors and electricians so you can now
apply for your commercial electrical permit online, your electrical permit
extension, your non-commercial electrical permit and then renew your contractor
electrical permit online.
Some of this is there is efficiency for us. It is also making things easier for
the contractors. They don't have to fill out paperwork and then there was also a
data quality benefit because they put it in, there is no one has to retype it
and that kind of stuff.
So those are recently the new online services that we have put up.
J. DINN:
Any savings so far?
S. STOODLEY:
I guess the amalgamation of the departments within our Digital Government
Service NL, doing this allowed us to move – and moving more things online
facilitated that. Now, there are still some wrinkles in our current processes.
We physically relocated people, so that team is also moved to the Mount Pearl
office. So I think there is still some normalizing, I guess, going on.
We were
able to hire a new residential tenancies adjudicator. So we're going to have
four soon; we have three at the moment. I can't tell you kind of a number of –
S. DUTTON:
(Inaudible.)
S. STOODLEY:
Oh sure, Sean.
S. DUTTON:
I guess I could add that, in
terms of savings, there's been no correlating reduction in our human resource
budget other than the attrition targets that we had to meet in past years.
Again, this digitization target of 75 per cent, that's been more than exceeded.
As a result of that, we have more of the staff being focused on higher priority
work and less of the back-office functions.
In
Motor Registration, as an example, we don't have people in the back rooms
stapling the sticker onto the letter to stuff it in the envelope anymore,
because that's done print on demand. So those staff are able to focus on higher
priority work like the call taking and counter service and other functions of
the division.
J. DINN:
So is the move to
digitization also, I guess, a part of a government strategy to make the services
more attractive to private capital and to make it easier to privatize them?
S. STOODLEY:
I'll say for myself that is
absolutely not a consideration. We are trying to make things easier for
residents to deal with government, and trying to make government more efficient.
Government should be easy for people to deal with. We should have less red tape.
I would strongly add that is not at all what we've thought about.
J. DINN:
If your department or if
Motor Registration is eventually privatized, would the system that you're set
up, would that go with it, be part of the deal or would any company be
responsible and more less have to come up with their own data management system?
S. STOODLEY:
All that is to be
determined.
J. DINN:
And I would guess that is
part of what you're evaluating, too.
S. STOODLEY:
Well, I guess, just for
everyone, and for those who don't know, a lot of the IT systems that we have are
very old. MRD system is very old. It's on a mainframe, which limits our ability
to do new things, like, for example, have a plate-to-owner system rather than a
plate-to-vehicle system like we have.
So we
have a big, long list of new things we'd like to do, like having electric
vehicle plates. We get requests all the time for new licence plates from
organizations. We're not able to move as fast as we'd like because our
technology is slow. I guess regardless of what we do, we will need to upgrade
our technology as well. So that's another consideration.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
What's
the update on a transition from plate-to-vehicle to a plate-to-owner system,
when it comes to –?
S. STOODLEY:
So we have not been able to
do that with our current system. We need to invest in a new system prior to
that, unfortunately.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
And
what is the status of the shared services approach to back-office functions of
government, such as financial administration, human resources, IT and so on and
so forth, and has there been any progress in implementing the policy, any
savings?
S. STOODLEY:
The big thing that we've had
progress on recently is collections. So collections, we've brought it in from a
few areas of government. It now sits in Digital Government and Service NL. I
mentioned in my opening statement we recently just brought in collections for
IPGS. I guess from an IT perspective, OCIO is essentially a core shared service.
We're now looking at how the IT and digital landscapes look when you consider,
for example the NLESD or NLCHI – I think NLCHI's been announced that it's coming
into government. So what does digital look like and IT with NLCHI coming in and
any other organization.
But I
think cybersecurity is also a relevant discussion here where government spends a
lot of money on cybersecurity, and we have lots of agencies, boards and
commissions who may not have the expertise or financial means to spend any money
or time or knowledge on cybersecurity. And given the lack of cybersecurity
experts in Newfoundland and Labrador, I think it makes sense for the provincial
government to take more of these organizations under its wing from an IT
perspective. Even for the simple, pure reason of protecting the information that
we all have. So that would be my next big priority.
CHAIR:
Okay, thank you.
MHA
O'Driscoll.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Are we going on to the next
one? That's it for that section, I think.
CHAIR:
Oh, I thought you might've
had more.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
No, I'm good on that
section.
CHAIR:
Are you good as well, MHA
Dinn?
J. DINN:
No, I have just a few more,
Chair.
CHAIR:
Okay.
J. DINN:
Are there any pilot projects
under way for introducing new safety measures in school buses, such as camera
technology, seat belts, automatic emergency braking?
S. STOODLEY:
Okay, just one second.
I used
to have something on this. We are working with the Canadian organization – Sean,
I don't know if you want to talk about school buses. Thank you, Sean.
S. DUTTON:
In terms of seat belts on buses, there was an evaluation done through the
Council of Ministers Responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety. They
completed that report and it's online at comt.ca, for anyone who wants to read
it.
I think
also you were asking about the braking; I don't have any specific information on
the braking. The standards of manufacture of school buses
is a federal matter – Transport Canada regulates that. And I am sorry, what was
the third item you mentioned?
J. DINN:
There was seat belts, camera technologies and –
S. DUTTON:
So in terms of the cameras, legislation has been passed and regulations
published around using image capture technology for highway enforcement and the
regulations have been published in the
Gazette. We formed an inter-departmental committee. Education is one of a
number of departments that would be involved, along with Justice and
Transportation.
So we are evaluating the options on the deployment of cameras for strong
enforcement around school buses, school zones, highway construction sites and
for general highway traffic enforcement by law enforcement offices. They will be
reporting back to government later this year and then that will inform next
year's budget process.
J. DINN:
And that would include cameras in the school buses? That is what I was
specifically asking about. This is –
S. DUTTON:
We don't have any involvement in our department in cameras on school buses if it
is for the behaviour of the children. I think what I am talking about is the use
for ensuring that people are not illegally passing a school bus.
J. DINN:
What policies have been put in place over the past year to help streamline the
client experience for businesses at Digital Services?
S. STOODLEY:
We have done more of the kind of online processing and applications and renewals
rather than I guess from a policy perspective. So I will mention them. For
example, you can now apply and renew your mortgage broker licence online, real
estate broker, real estate salesperson, pre-paid funeral sales licence,
insurance broker licences, financial services licences, applications and
renewals. Then from an electrician's perspective, anyone applying for an
electrical permit, extending an electrical permit, a non-commercial electrical
permit or a contractor electrical certificate, renewing or applying for, all of
that can happen online.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
When can we expect amendments to the
Buildings Accessibility Act to be introduced in the House?
S. STOODLEY:
So the Buildings Accessibility
Advisory Board gave us their recommendations and we did consultations on those.
I think I did three or four virtual consultations with a range of stakeholders
and then the What We Heard document
was just recently published on our website. So I encourage anyone who is
interested to go check that out.
We are working now on taking the information we heard as well, as the
recommendations of the Buildings
Accessibility Advisory Board, and we will be putting together draft legislation
that has to go
through the process.
I have
said, I would ideally target the upcoming fall sitting, but I'm not sure how
confident I am in that, but that's my ideal target at the moment.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
Is
there a system in place now where insurance companies can tell the department
when someone has cancelled his or her car insurance policy?
S. STOODLEY:
The insurance validation
project is in its final stages. Do you have –?
G. BOLAND:
Yes, we've been working with
IBC, the Insurance Bureau of Canada, as well as all of our insurers to implement
a real-time validation process. We actually, this past fall, had to make some
more amendments to our legislation to help facilitate the authorities required
to demand the information being reported to the registrar of motor vehicles.
We're
working with IBC, like I said, and the OCIO to develop the systems required and
we are aiming for this fall to have that process in place.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
1.2.02,
French Language Services: Are there any particular efforts under way to expand
the availability of French services to the public, either in the public or the
private sector?
S. STOODLEY:
Thank you.
I have
to say, I've has an excellent relationship with the FFTNL. We did launch the
ability to get, I think, French birth and death certificates online. The
experience is online and you get the certificate in French. We do look at any
new online service and could we launch that in French and what's required for
that, considering the end-to-end experience.
That is
something we are actively looking at. We certainly want, ideally, to have as
many services in French as possible. We just have a big priority list and
looking at volumes and which thing we could do next that has the biggest bang,
has the most impact for residents. So where possible we do have services in
French.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
One
final question under 1.2.03, just to make sure I heard it correctly. The death
notification project that was referred to in Purchased Services, has that been
completed?
S. STOODLEY:
My understanding is the
majority of the IT work has been completed. We are now moving on to staff
training. So, recently, in the last few weeks, I've written the regional health
authorities asking for contacts, just to facilitate training and the person on
the ground who is going to be leading it. So all that is under way. So we're in
the kind of final, I guess, acceptance phase. Now we're working on getting the
staff trained so that everyone understands how to do the project and the IT
systems work is complete.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
That's
it for me, Chair.
CHAIR:
Thank you.
Clerk.
CLERK:
Executive and Support
Services, 1.1.01 to 1.2.03 inclusive.
CHAIR:
Shall 1.1.01 to 1.2.03
carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
MHA
Reid.
S. REID:
I'm in favour.
CHAIR:
Are you okay?
S. REID:
Yes.
CHAIR:
Do you need to ask any
questions or anything?
S. REID:
No, good.
CHAIR:
Okay.
On
motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 1.2.03 carried.
CHAIR:
Get well soon.
Next we
have – Clerk.
CLERK:
Regulatory Affairs, 2.1.01
to 2.2.04.
CHAIR:
MHA O'Driscoll.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay, thank you.
Just a
couple of questions again.
In
2020, you amended a legislation to allow unlocking pensions. Do you have any
update on how much was withdrawn from the pension funds in '21-'22?
S. STOODLEY:
We do have some information,
I'm not sure if it's the amount. Just one second.
OFFICIAL:
(Inaudible.)
S. STOODLEY:
Okay, sure.
CHAIR:
Just to note that if your
officials would like to take down their mask when they're speaking, it's fine.
S. DUTTON:
So we have been monitoring the progress and I think the initial report for
six-month period from – I'm sorry, it was less than six months – from 1st of
March to June 30 last year there were 428 withdrawals and then for the period
July 1 to December 31 there were another 336 withdrawals.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay. Perfect.
These
are in different sections but I thought I'd just get these questions out of the
way and then be able to move on.
Can you
provide some information on the number of complaints received last year in the
Consumer Affairs division and how many of them were related to the pricing of
goods?
S. STOODLEY:
I might have something on that, I think. Give me a second, apologies.
Sorry,
I can't put my finger on that but we can certainly get that for you.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay. No problem.
Just
related to that, to costs and the rising costs and people, I'm going to say,
gouging customers, I'm going to say. I don't know if you call it gouging, but
prices just jump up an extreme amount. I use lumber as an example. They pay
more, but how do we track – I know they get complaints that people are charging
you more. Is there a need? Is there something that you can check to go against
that? Do you know what I'm saying, that they might not be price gouging but is
there a way that we're checking to say that they're not?
S. STOODLEY:
The wording in the
legislation is around unconscionable acts. That was in before I came in. It's
not as, I guess, helpful I think in, let's say, prosecuting someone who is
charging more in one place.
We do
welcome anyone who feels like they've been impacted in that way to reach out to
our office and make a complaint. The team, they do consider the price of things
in other similar locations. If a price was $10 everywhere then that wouldn't
necessarily be an unconscionable act, but if one place was charging 20 or 30
times the same price as everyone else, then maybe that would be considered. So
we would work with the person making the complaint to try and get together as
much documentation as we could and we'd reach out to the supplier.
I don't
know if you wanted to add anything.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
There are examples that
people ask. I would use a simple one that one of my buddies is a plumber and he
bought hot-water boilers and they're $250, now all of a sudden they're $500 and
everybody blames it on COVID. Is that actually the case is what I'm trying to
get at. Is it really the case? Because last week he could go get one, next week
he goes up and they have to charge more obviously because that's the price of
it. Is there anyway to check against that? I don't know if there is, but I mean
that's a question that certainly comes up.
S. STOODLEY:
Yes. I certainly agree and I
know the cost of everything has been going up. I've seen articles in the paper
about certain stores maybe charging more than inflation and more than what a
supply chain markup would be.
But I
guess I go back to the legislation, which I didn't bring in, around
unconscionable acts, it is – I'm not an expert on how one would prove something
would be an unconscionable act. I would say that the price increases we've seen
in Canada, overall generally probably would not, if I had to guess, would not
meet that threshold of unconscionable act, but we'd certainly welcome anyone to
reach out to our department and we would work with them on any complaints that
they might have.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
We just hear it so often,
based on COVID and is it really the problem?
I had a
question on your tech system and I know that it's antiquated and it's old. Have
you looked into seeing how much a new system would actually cost to get it where
you want to be?
S. STOODLEY:
This is more of my OCIO hat, because the Office of the Chief Information Officer
would do that kind of RFP work around the systems. I guess there's no issue with
me providing more information on that with that hat on. So we did do, maybe in
last year, a request for information – because we have four mainframe systems. I
think it was a request for information where we went out, or it could have been
an RFQ, and we went out to industry and said how would you approach this
problem. And we got a range of options from a range of vendors.
One of those was taking the code that we have and just rewriting it and plopping
it onto a better, newer code base and then we wouldn't get any more
functionality but we would have a – it is very stable. You can't hire coders
that know how to code the mainframes. So that is the problem. The security is
not the problem. It is very stable. It is just no one knows how to use it. And
there are other companies that have really old technology that pay more than
government. In my last life, we had a mainframe system so they would pay more
than what government would pay those same coders.
So we have not yet decided exactly which road we are taking in terms of
upgrading the systems and it would depend on whether we did all four or just one
of those. But I know the MRD, for example, is one of the bigger systems and it
would be, depending on what you did, it could be $5 million, $20 million –
L. O'DRISCOLL:
A big range.
S. STOODLEY:
Yeah, to get absolutely no new functionality, like you couldn't do it for less
than $5 million. Based on the information, and I don't have the exact numbers
off the top of my head, but I guess that was a range. I personally am bothered
by spending that money and coming out with exactly the same functionality. So
then what does it cost to have a new system with purpose built for what we
actually need? And that is not what we have got the prices on. So that is all
still –
L. O'DRISCOLL:
It is hard to put in a new system for a plate to vehicle or plate to owner – if
that is the only reason you are going to do it, it would be hard to spend that
much money if that was going to be the only change in your function, which I
think is a big change. I guess the other governments across Canada have
difference systems. So it would be hard just to do it or spend that kind of
money just for that change, but I guess eventually it will come.
S. STOODLEY:
And I will just respond to that, with my OCIO hat on. We have looked at what
other provinces have done and most other provinces, in that situation, they have
done a like for like, so they pay and they pick it up and drop off the exact
same functionality with just a new, better code base.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Regarding MyGovNL yesterday and the issues that you had, you did say that you
are considering changing it. What would be the ramifications of changing if you
did go and change?
S. STOODLEY:
Well, we haven't had the time – really, the team has been fully focused on
getting things back so it is up at the moment – well, not up. What has happened
is there is a problem with how many people can access it at a time. Even though
before we launched I asked very
specific questions to the vendor about volume and peak volume and they assured
me that there would be no issues.
So my understanding is
that's kind of the crux of the issue. At the moment, there is a queue put in
front of it so if someone went on right now, I think they would be able to wait
in line and do something with MyGovNL. My feeling is that is not fixed yet. So
we have not put out a press release saying it is resolved because it is not
resolved.
We're
looking at a range of options in terms of going back to the original, what we
had a few months ago, which is the same functionality. It's been four days now
and I cannot tell you when the problem will be fixed, which is itself a huge
problem. It's the biggest thing I'm working on when I'm not here in Estimates,
with the OCIO team.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
All right, no problem, thank
you.
Just
move on to 2.1.01, under Regulatory Affairs, Salaries. Last year Salaries came
in under budget by $357,000. Can you outline why and were there positions vacant
and how have you filled them?
S. STOODLEY:
This is where we merged the
two divisions in advance of 2022-2023. So there were eight positions which no
longer exist, which then became four new positions created. So we didn't get rid
of any people, just positions that changed. And then we moved a role to
Executive Support. Then the extra savings we have from that, we are then moving
to be an extra residential tenancies adjudicator position.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Purchased Services, last year it was over budget by $59,600. Can you explain
that?
S. STOODLEY:
Absolutely. As we move
things online, we unfortunately incur additional Moneris fees. Those are fees
like when you buy something on your credit card online Moneris is the company
that government has a contract with. That contract with Moneris is with the
Department of Finance. They are, my understanding is, currently or soon to be in
negotiations with them or are looking for a new provider.
So our
department has a strong interest in lower fees. At the moment, it's with the
Department of Finance to negotiate and there's very little we can do in terms of
the extra costs that were charged to process fees online.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
CHAIR:
Okay, thank you.
MHA
Dinn.
J. DINN:
Thank you, Chair.
Under
2.1.01, Consumer and Financial Services, what is the current wait time to have a
hearing at the Residential Tenancies Board and what is the current caseload
waiting to be heard?
S. STOODLEY:
Sure, just a second. So
while I look that up, we recently hired our third residential adjudicator. So we
have three of three and, as I mentioned, we have moved resources so that we're
going to have a fourth residential tenancies adjudicator.
It is a
difficult role to fill and it is a difficult job – sorry, I need to better
organize my binder here. Do you have that information, Sean?
S. DUTTON:
Last year, the average wait time was 86 days but so far, in 2022, it is 43 days.
Again, we are anticipating hiring of an additional adjudicator this year so we
should be able to further reduce the wait time.
J. DINN:
That is good news indeed for
a lot of people who call my office.
I want
to go back, with regard to the vacancies, and I think you talked about people
move in and move out or they apply for other jobs. Is that affecting services?
Because after a while, there is no continuity and there is no passing on of, I
guess for a lack of a better word, corporate knowledge or the learning. I'm
calling up one day and talking to a person, the next day that person has moved
on and I have to start all over again. More importantly, is there any way then
for that person where they pick up a lesson plan, I guess – here is what is so
far and we're moving ahead.
S. STOODLEY:
So I would say the movement
of people, particularly coming into the front-line roles in our department and
then moving to other internal roles within government, are certainly a
significant problem which last summer when we saw the MRD issues, that certainly
was a huge contributor to that problem.
We do
have very – sophisticated is the wrong word. Training programs and all that is
quite standardized. We recently did kind of a Lean review, using some of our
internal Lean experts, just to make sure that everything was as streamlined as
possible.
I don't
know if you want to add anything. It is a big problem and we do have training
and stuff.
J. DINN:
Is it more of a problem for MRD than any other department or is it specific to
Motor Registration?
S. STOODLEY:
I'll let them add to it, but
I do think it is, particularly for MRD because – well, any front-line service.
If you go to an airport, there is a sign up saying please be nice to people. I
guess there is the customer service side where people are generally a bit more
agitated, maybe, and maybe not as nice and patient as the general public. But
then there is also the challenge of hiring staff.
I know
that across Canada, there are challenges hiring and retaining front-line workers
to deal with the public. So we have those two issues coming together, plus the
media attention, I'll be honest, that MRD might get doesn't make it better. If
they hear something on Open Line
about MRD and then they walk in and things are not perfect, then no one is to be
happy. The staff aren't happy, the residents aren't happy and then it –
J. DINN:
So we need to get more
people in there permanently and make it attractive.
S. STOODLEY:
I mean, we try our best to
bring as many people in as we can. We do have a team that handles calls. In the
future, I'd like to see a team that helps via online chat. One benefit of having
more things online allows people more time to deal with or help people in
person, seniors who might not have access online, more time to sit down and
handhold and just take care of people when they see them in person.
It is a
problem and there's no magic solution. I don't know if anyone wants to add
anything.
J. DINN:
That's fine, just as long as
we acknowledge that.
I know
my colleague from Ferryland mentioned about price gouging. Have there been any
reports brought to the department accusing businesses of price gouging last
year?
S. STOODLEY:
We definitely would have had
complaints. I don't have the numbers with me, but we'll certainly get those for
you.
J. DINN:
Also, if there were any
investigations and follow-ups or fines as a result of that would be great.
S. STOODLEY:
Yes. We'll happily provide
that.
J. DINN:
2.1.02, Pension Benefits
Standards: Salaries were under budget last year. What was the reason for that?
S. STOODLEY:
We had a vacant compliance
officer position for a large portion of the year.
J. DINN:
That compliance officer
would be dealing with what? Would that be housing?
S. STOODLEY:
Pension benefits.
J. DINN:
Okay.
2.1.03,
Commercial Registrations, why did spending on Salaries come in under budget last
year?
S. STOODLEY:
We had a vacancy in a clerk
IVB and clerk III position throughout the year. We just had delays in
recruitment. There was a decrease of $117,000.
J. DINN:
Okay.
Under
that same section 2.1.03, Purchased Services, why did the spending in that
exceed the budgeted amount?
S. STOODLEY:
We exceeded the budget there
because of the Moneris fees again that we didn't anticipate. Higher debit and
credit cards – because
what we pay for an online transaction is more expensive than what we pay for an
in-person. So if you go in and use your chip and PIN on the machine, that is
cheaper for government than if you pay online.
Based on the current contract we have with Moneris – that we are not involved in
– that is how the pay rates go. So as we have more transactions online that
require payment, the Moneris fees go up. And there is also a Unisys contract. It
is not just Moneris; it is Moneris and Unisys contracts.
J. DINN:
I wouldn't mind having a further discussions about the cost-benefit analysis of
online versus actually having real people do – since we seem to be digitizing. I
am assuming you have done the analysis and you are assuming you will save money
in the long run. I guess with transaction fees you don't have to worry about
pension benefits and sick leave too. Do you know what I am saying? Like if the
Moneris fees are going up would, it be better to have people there.
S. STOODLEY:
Sean.
S. DUTTON:
Again, we haven't eliminated any positions as a result of putting any services
online. In terms of commercial registrations, we have one location on Elizabeth
Avenue. So it is not convenient for most of the population to go to the office.
The number of offices we would have to staff in order to make that service more
widely available – this is the most cost-effective way to make the service
accessible to the majority of people.
It is a cost that we have to absorb, but it helps make it more accessible. The
time it takes for someone to do that renewal online is a fraction of what it
would take to have to get to the office and provide a wet signature or write a
cheque or any of the other factors that would be involved in in-person service.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
2.2.01, Vital Statistics Registry, why was spending on Purchased Services under
budget last year?
S. STOODLEY:
So 2.2.01, Vital Statistics, Purchased Services, we had a reduction in the
number of certificates purchased. We had a registrar retire. The registrar's
names are printed on the certificates and so we didn't order as many as we
usually would because we are trying to use up the certificates with the old
registrar's name before we order new certificates with the new registrar's name.
We couldn't order too many with the old registrar's name on them because we knew
they were retiring. That's why we spent less money.
J. DINN:
Sounds good. It is efficient.
Under that 2.2.01, why were the projections for federal and provincial revenues
so far off the mark last year?
S. STOODLEY:
Sure.
Our Vital Statistics
Division, we have systems where our system talks to Stats Canada, talks to
Service Canada, talks to CRA, talks to Elections Canada. So as we share
information with those, the federal government would compensate us for providing
them records or information.
On the federal revenue, for
example, we had higher than anticipated revenue for records that we provided to
the federal government. The provincial revenue, we had a lower than expected
revenue from shipping birth certificates to individuals.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
I can
keep going.
CHAIR:
I was thinking how I was
going to reply to that last email.
Go
ahead, MHA O'Driscoll.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I'm just waiting for the
minister; take your time.
S. STOODLEY:
Thank you.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I did have one question;
Queen's Printer, they must print the budget, obviously.
S. STOODLEY:
Yes.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I was thinking about that
last night. I said, where does that actually get printed?
S. STOODLEY:
They stay up all night.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Well, secrecy on it, too; so
you can't go outside. So I started to think on that last night when they were
talking about it.
Under
Queen's Printer, Revenue - Provincial – you might have done that already, I
think, did you? No, maybe not.
S. STOODLEY:
No.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Could you please provide an
explanation of less than anticipated revenue last year?
S. STOODLEY:
Absolutely.
As more
things, more people search and find information online, we print fewer things
and we sell fewer things. So university libraries bought fewer books from us and
they bought fewer copies of legislation from us.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
I'll
move on to 2.2.03. Under Salaries, last year there was a saving of $70,000. Can
you explain that?
S. STOODLEY:
We had a vacant printing production worker position and we did not need as much
overtime as we had allocated.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Supplies, under the same section, last year there was a savings of $62,200. Can
you explain that?
S. STOODLEY:
We had lower printing
requests. In particular, we didn't have to print public exams because of
COVID-19. That was offset by a purchase of a replacement part for a printer.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Under Purchased Services,
there is a savings of $15,500. Can you explain that for us?
S. STOODLEY:
So we had lower copying,
printing charges. This is a bulk of the printing for government. If we're not
printing as much, then we don't have as many costs.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Under 2.2.04, Salaries,
there was a salary savings of $288,000. Can you explain that?
S. STOODLEY:
Yes. This is due to
vacancies and delays in recruitment of collection officers.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Under Purchased Services,
under the same heading, there is also a savings of $21,800. I wonder if you can
supply some detail on that.
S. STOODLEY:
Yes. So we had lower than
anticipated legal costs associated with collections activity and we had less
collections efforts during COVID-19. Actually some of the collections team were
reallocated to doing other things, as were important to the government for
COVID-19. We did not do as much collections activity.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Can you give an overview of
how much is outstanding in terms of being owed to the government? How much was
collected last year?
S. STOODLEY:
I don't have that
information.
S. DUTTON:
For the year ending March
31, the number of outstanding accounts was 86,000 for a total receivable for
$743 million, but $58 million was collected.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
That's
it for this section for me on that section. Jim, I don't know if you have more.
CHAIR:
MHA Dinn.
J. DINN:
Actually not many more, I
think my colleague asked just about all of them. But I do have a question with
regard to the online submission of expenses for MHAs.
S. STOODLEY:
It's horrible.
J. DINN:
Okay, good.
I don't
need to go further on that, except to say that I know when I was with the NLTA,
CTF, you could submit things online boom, done. Here, it seems to be: do it
online, print it off, sign it, bring it – is there any – would you have control
over to upgrade so that it can be done totally online and save this – it's a
rather archaic process.
S. STOODLEY:
I would be happy to have
OCIO engage with the House of Assembly. I'm not sure who would – because I guess
there's a process piece there that the House of Assembly would be involved in
outlining, then the OCIO would work with them on the technology. I mean, we can
certainly get together and see if there's any way we can make that more
streamlined.
I
guess, from an overall government digital perspective that impacts 40 people. I
agree, it's a very poor experience for someone; 40 MHAs and their 40
constituency assistants, so that's 80 people. I guess, just to be a devil's
advocate, I could have them spend the time on things that would improve the
customer experience and resident experience of more than 80 people.
So
those are the types of things we think about for which service to do next. I
mean, we can certainly do that, but then we're taking away from improving
something that impacts more than 80 people.
J. DINN:
No, I'm just saying, in
terms of – I don't know what the cost is, but all I want to be able to do is
submit my line, put my digital signature and be done with it.
S. STOODLEY:
If I had to guess, and I'm
pretty sure as an MHA I've asked this before, because it is a very poor
experience, they require a physical signature. But maybe one of our House of
Assembly Committees can take that further and if that's no long required then we
can certainly look at changing the process.
J. DINN:
Okay, maybe that's a simpler
fix.
A
question with the print plant: Do you actually have printing presses down there
or is it digitized now? I thought they were with the dinosaurs, they're almost
extinct, not the mimeograph.
S. STOODLEY:
I know we do have digital
printers, I imagine we also have a printing press. But I don't know if Sean
knows?
S. DUTTON:
These are Xerox-type quality machines, but they're for this kind of large-scale
printing. It's not like a photocopier.
J. DINN:
No, no.
S. DUTTON:
But it's not a Gestetner machine either. So they have a variety of those
machines. There's a saddle-stich binder, things you need to make public exams,
all of that stuff is there. I'm sure that the director would be happy to offer
any of you a tour anytime you'd like. They're in the basement of the East Block.
J. DINN:
And my point was that if
it's like what I'm thinking of as a printing press, we had gone digital. It's
not the photocopier. I understand that. I just wanted to know is it gone to that
level. We're not using the old printing presses, which we used to use in the
NLTA. That's long gone. I just wanted to make sure (inaudible).
S. DUTTON:
It's for making documents that require binding, so pamphlets, brochures –
J. DINN:
Perfect.
S. DUTTON:
– things that require staples in the middle, all of that sort of thing.
J. DINN:
Thank you. That's it.
CHAIR:
Okay.
S. STOODLEY:
We're ready to go to the
next section, I think.
CHAIR:
Yeah, okay, just wondering.
Clerk,
can you recall the grouping?
CLERK:
Regulatory Affairs, 2.1.01
to 2.2.04 inclusive.
CHAIR:
Shall 2.1.01 to 2.2.04
inclusive carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, subheads 2.2.01 through 2.2.04 carried.
CHAIR:
Okay, next.
CLERK:
Digital Government and
Services, 3.1.01 to 3.4.02 inclusive.
CHAIR:
MHA O'Driscoll
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Thank you.
Just a
couple of questions. One is have you ever considered – I know I came from the
car industry – just for safety reason, motor vehicle inspections on vehicles
after a certain age, say five years, six years, maybe seven. Seven is old but
I'm going to say five years or depending on kilometres, because there are
vehicles out there, I know and we all know that they're out there. No one ever
sees them until you see them go in with – I've had mechanics or – not in where I
worked, but I've had garages that take pictures of vehicle with a Vice-Grip on a
brake line because that brake line has stopped, and there's no inspection until
the brake pads need to be done, then they have to get into it.
So I
think it went out in John Efford's days, I think. Just something I wonder if it
ever came up in consideration because it is a safety factor for sure in some of
these vehicles.
S. DUTTON:
This was eliminated when
Ernie McLean was the minister in the 1990s. We have occasionally gotten
correspondence around the point that you raised, particularly from certain
garages and that sort of thing, but at the time concern was that the inspections
weren't overly effective. They were concerned about fraud and things of that
nature. I believe they're still inspection required when the vehicle changes
hands – correct me if I'm wrong.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yes, no, you're right.
If you
change ownership for sure, you need an inspection, but if somebody buys a
vehicle sometimes and keep it 10 years. Sometimes they're not safe, that's all
I'll say. And when they're telling you, they're telling you that for a reason
because they're the ones that are fixing them and they're shocked at the point
that they are. It's just something that I said I'd throw out there, because –
S. STOODLEY:
Well, if the PC caucus are
supportive of that, we can certainly take it away. I'm all for improving safety
on our roadways.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
The other side of that is
when I asked that question, obviously, we're talking about cost of living, and
that affects the cost of living for those people as well. It's a hard question
to ask but it's a safety question to ask. So that's why I'm asking it.
I'm
good. I'll just go on to 3.1.01.
Did you
have anything else to add there? No, okay.
3.1.01,
Salaries, can you provide a breakdown of the number of employees in this
division by region?
S. STOODLEY:
I don't have that to hand. I
can certainly provide that. It doesn't look like we have that to hand, we can
certainly provide that.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Salaries there's a substantial savings in this line item from 2021-22 of
$801,000 was saved in Salaries. Can you explain that?
S. STOODLEY:
Absolutely.
We had
vacancies during the year in highway enforcement officers, clerical staff, a
driver examiner and manager positions throughout the province with MRD. Those
are impacted by high turnover and delays in recruitment.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Supplies, last year went over budget by $119,000. Can you explain that one?
S. STOODLEY:
Absolutely. We had kind of
an addition and a subtraction here. We purchased licence plates for Come Home
Year and that was offset by a reduction in requirement for supplies and uniforms
for highway enforcement officers and driver examiners due to the vacancies.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
All right.
Under
Purchased Services, can you provide a breakdown of the services purchased and
the amount of each? Additionally, why did the line item go over budget by
$393,000?
S. STOODLEY:
Thank you.
Purchased Services, we had higher debit and credit card fees so that was
$373,000 worth due to greater volume of online transactions. We also had $10,500
worth of ergonomic assessments. Another thing is as we have a lot of staff
coming in and going through, if people request ergonomic assessments, those are
provided. The more staff we have coming through the more ergonomic assessment
costs we have. Then we did have $10,000 of charges for the insurance validation
project.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Grants and Subsidies, can you provide a breakdown of how and where these grants
are awarded?
S. STOODLEY:
That is an excellent
question. I'm going to refer to the team here.
B. STEELE:
Can you repeat the question.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Sure. Under Grants and
Subsidies, can you provide a breakdown of how and where these grants are
awarded?
That's
under 3.1.01, sorry.
B. STEELE:
This provides membership fees for the following – and also $10,000 grant for
SafetyNL Lids for Kids program. So we provide money to Commercial Vehicle Safety
Alliance, Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators, International
Registration Plan and American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
B. STEELE:
And I have the amounts as well, sorry.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Sure.
B. STEELE:
Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators is $10,200; Lids for Kids is
$10,000; the CVSA membership is $10,200; the American Association of Motor
Vehicle Administrators is $2,300; and the International Registration Plan is
$9,800.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Revenue - Provincial, can you provide an explanation for the less than
anticipated revenue last year? I would think that is all the same: online.
S. STOODLEY:
Thank you.
(Technical difficulties.)
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Can you provide an update on how long someone needs to wait for an appointment
at the various Motor Registration divisions then?
S. STOODLEY:
Sure. I don't think it is that long at the moment. We have that – okay, thank
you, Gail.
G. BOLAND:
I ran a report on April 28 across our office locations throughout the province,
on average it's only a two- or three-day wait for in-person services. The
exception, of course, is road tests. In Mount Pearl there is a wait. We do have
a wait-list started and I'm working with staff now to identify a plan to address
the current wait time to get that down to something that is reasonable.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
How big a wait-list is it? Like is it (inaudible).
G. BOLAND:
Last week, there were about 60 people on the wait-list.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
How many do you do per day? Roughly? (Inaudible) different, it changes.
G. BOLAND:
Yeah. It changes every day and depending upon is it a Class 5 licence, is it a
commercial licence, is it a taxi licence. So for example a Class 5 licence takes
about 30 minutes to do. A taxi licence would take almost an hour to do. So it
depends on the type.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
We'll say that I had a dealing with – I had an ATV that – when we went though
the regulations, it had to be registered. I bought it from my brother and he
never had it registered. So I had to go through the process. It was a real good
process. Now, it took a month but that is the process because I didn't know if
it was stolen. He didn't know if it was stolen so he had to go through and check
the serial number. It was a good process and it did help it for sure.
G. BOLAND:
Absolutely. And that is something that we are looking into to, especially with
the new off-road vehicles legislation and providing that service through
MyGovNL.
S. STOODLEY:
I will just add, we do have an issue with people booking multiple driver tests,
which does cause inefficiency. We need to sort out some kind of solution because
we see someone; they book one appointment here, they book one appointment in
Harbour Grace, they book one appointment in Clarenville, they might book another
one in Harbour Grace the next day. I would prefer not to charge them or I would
prefer not to charge and have to rebate, but we do see some people – there were
tens of driver tests booked and someone then had to notice and cancel them and
that. We are trying to solve that issue, but that does lead to our inefficiency
in driver tests.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I guess with your antiquated system it can't stop you from booking at all other
Motor Registration divisions. So at some point in time that might be another
avenue for it to go.
That's fine, but it was a good experience. I will say that.
S. STOODLEY:
Thank you.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
The other question would be
on ATVs. Obviously, legislation is coming down; I mean you have people that have
never registered an ATV. It's going to be a big problem. You're going to have
enforcement; you're going to have more costs to people.
I just
think that it might be a little bit of leniency for the first time. It could be
an older gentleman in the community that never registered and is driving in – in
these rural communities, I'll say that, they're driving on the sides of the
roads or they're going in and cutting wood. You haul them in and give them a
ticket, that wouldn't be so good. Eventually it has to get there, but maybe a
warning to start.
S. STOODLEY:
I would just add that the enforcement of the legislation would rest in Fishery,
Forestry and Agriculture or with Justice and Public Safety.
I will
say that there won't be – the new laws don't come into effect until May 19, so
anyone who's registered their vehicle in advance of that won't have any
additional requirements. It's after May 19.
S. DUTTON:
I could just add that the requirements for registration have not changed as a
result of the law. So it's a long-standing requirement that, as you say, there's
probably low compliance with. And the only place where that might have an impact
on people is with respect to the training requirement. So they're not coming
into force on May 19, but at a later date once we have the training more widely
available and people will have to do the training, if they are registering for
the first time.
So a
long-time user who has not registered, this would be a good time for those
listening out there to register your off-road vehicle.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yeah, that's why I did mine.
CHAIR:
MHA Dinn.
J. DINN:
Thank you, Chair.
I'll
start by saying, I will agree with my colleague from Ferryland about motor
vehicle inspections after some date. New cars, they're under warranty and
they're brought back, but I think it's something to be considered down the road
to look at how we can do it efficiently and cost effectively.
The
other thing I'm going to talk about is I see increasing number of cars that have
tinted glass all around. I don't know if there's a way of having that – just as
it's illegal to remove a catalytic converter, that should be illegal, too.
S. STOODLEY:
It is illegal.
J. DINN:
So they're getting it done somewhere, and it's not just simply someone buying
the film and putting it on there, you can see it looks professionally done. But
from my point of view, I should be able to see the driver of a car, especially
if I'm a pedestrian; I want to be able to see their eyes. If they're coming, I
want to be able to see. So I don't know if there's a way of cracking down on
that, but that's got to be –
S. STOODLEY:
I will say it's illegal to
have your windows tinted at the driver and in front. I'll certainly raise that
in my next discussion with the Minister Justice and Public Safety. It is already
illegal.
J. DINN:
I see more and more of them.
The
other one, I'm just wondering – I do cycle to work. Probably the most dangerous
part is coming up on Prince Philip Drive there. As someone who lost a brother to
a cycling accident, I'll say this: A lot of cars, they'll slow down and move out
three feet; not everyone does. I'm just wondering as a fun or positive,
proactive way – we have to renew our licences every year. Maybe it's time to put
in a little quiz that make it fun – hey, complete this quiz, maybe you'll get a
free motor vehicle registration for a year, if your name is drawn or you get an
iPad or whatever else. But each year as a way of hey, did you know what you do
when you come to a crosswalk.
It just
reminds people, because bad habits get ingrained over years and you don't even
know it. I know I'm far from it, just as a thought. Especially if we're going
digital online right now, it's just a matter of here, click on this and go from
there.
How
many highway enforcement officers are currently employed by the department under
the highway safety program?
S. STOODLEY:
I'll defer to Gail.
G. BOLAND:
There are currently 13
highway enforcement officers employed throughout the province. We do have some
vacancies there that we are currently actively recruiting.
J. DINN:
Okay.
How
many vacancies would that be?
G. BOLAND:
We have five positions
currently under recruitment, and we have two positions that are inactive due to
extended leave.
J. DINN:
Okay.
But
they are replaced, though, are they?
G. BOLAND:
Yes.
J. DINN:
Okay.
Where
would those five vacancies be across the province, or are they –?
G. BOLAND:
Yeah, they're across the
province.
J. DINN:
Okay, thank you.
Provincial revenues were less than anticipated last year because of –
S. STOODLEY:
If we're still at 3.1.01?
J. DINN:
Yes, we are.
S. STOODLEY:
We had fewer requests for
expedited delivery of driver's licence cards.
J. DINN:
No one was driving.
S. STOODLEY:
People didn't lose their
licence; they weren't travelling.
J. DINN:
Yes, that's right, exactly.
The
budget for Salaries increased this year under – sorry, I'll move on 3.2.01,
Support Services. By the way, out of curiosity, I don't know if it's under your
jurisdiction or not, probably not. With the advent of driverless cars, any
discussion within your department or between departments as to how that's going
to be as the future unrolls.
S. STOODLEY:
The Canadian Council for
Motor Transportation, CCMT, along with the federal government, we kind of have
an agreement. The federal government has set standards for driverless cars and I
guess it's currently in like a test-and-learn phase, if I would call it that off
the top of my head.
There
is documentation online available that we can certainly share with you. The
federal government has set standards for what is appropriate and what is not
appropriate. At the moment, we're still – I guess all provinces are evaluating
that. Transport Canada ultimately has ownership for driverless cars and the
safety. They're responsible for like the cybersecurity, the privacy and all
those considerations. I guess we're working with Transport Canada then in terms
of how that trickles down into the provincial regulations.
J. DINN:
Will there be any
discussion, whether it's your department or an insurance company, as to
insurance rates? So for right now, if I were living over in Port aux Choix, for
example, my premiums would probably be half what I'm paying here because I'm in
a high-risk zone. I'm just wondering if there's any discussion as to what that
would mean.
S. STOODLEY:
Sure.
That is
under us, under our Financial Services Division. The Public Utilities Board
regulates insurance rates, and the Public Utilities Board legislation is under
Justice and Public Safety. In the upcoming Justice and Public Safety review of
the Public Utilities Board it will include a high level, somewhat look at
insurance I guess.
We do
have a mandatory insurance review every five years, and I think we're two or
three years in at the moment. Insurers have to apply to the Public Utilities
Board for a rate increase. There are formulas around that, and the Public
Utilities Board has to approve those rate increases. I guess that's –
J. DINN:
I was just curious as to how
autonomous vehicles might affect that down the road as well.
Under
3.2.01, Support Services, the budget for Salaries has increased this year. What
was the reason for that?
S. STOODLEY:
If we're talking about
3.2.01, Support Services, Salaries?
J. DINN:
Yes.
S. STOODLEY:
I guess it reflects the
salary plan. We had two previously unfunded positions, and now the government
step salary increases.
J. DINN:
Why was the budget for
Purchased Services decreased this year? It went from $64,000 to $62,000 and then
on to $49,100.
S. STOODLEY:
In our Gander location, we
no longer need to pay for secure cash services. We no longer need to pay an
armoured vehicle to pick up cash, because our office is now next to the bank –
OFFICIAL:
It is in the same mall.
S. STOODLEY:
In the same mall, so we no
longer need our protective cash services.
J. DINN:
Okay.
You can
always call on me and the Member for Ferryland, we'll be glad to deliver cash
for you.
Why was the provincial revenue less than anticipated last year?
S. STOODLEY:
So we had fewer inspections carried out.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
3.2.02, Regional Services: Given the move to digitizing services, are there any
plans to close some local offices and consolidate services into the remaining
branch offices?
S. STOODLEY:
So we have no plans to close branches.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
Under 3.2.01, Salaries, it was under budget. Why was that the case for last
year?
S. STOODLEY:
Sorry, is that 3.2.02?
J. DINN:
Yes, it is.
S. STOODLEY:
We had vacancies throughout the province, delays in recruitment. We had
environmental health officer vacancies, environmental protection officer,
regional support supervisor and a word processing clerk role vacant.
J. DINN:
Perfect.
And under 3.2.02, Regional Services, provincial revenue was less than expected
last year. This year we are expecting to collect only half the amount that was
budgeted last year. Why is that so? Why is that the case?
S. STOODLEY:
Just a second. So this is related to, from an accounting perspective, the
difference between if someone pays for their permit online versus in person. So
fewer permits sold over the counter, they are recorded as related revenue
whereas a permit sold online goes to the consolidated revenue fund.
J. DINN:
So it just goes to two different, okay.
3.3.01, Occupational Health and Safety Inspections: How many inspections were
completed last year and how many investigations into workplaces were conducted
last year as well?
S. STOODLEY:
I'll defer that to Gail.
G. BOLAND:
So in 2021, we completed 4,096 inspections.
J. DINN:
Any investigations into workplaces or would that be part of that as well?
G. BOLAND:
That would be part of that. In 2021, we concluded 11 prosecutions. Currently, we
have four ongoing fatality investigations: two that started in 2020, one in 2021
and one in 2022.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
S. STOODLEY:
We have many ongoing investigations.
G. BOLAND:
Yes.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
CHAIR:
Okay.
J. DINN:
You'll notice, Paul, I'm not
taking advantage of you.
CHAIR:
I noticed that. There's a
reason for that.
MHA
O'Driscoll.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Thank you.
I'll
just go back to the previous one, 3.2.01. I just have one question on
Transportation and Communications. Last year there was a savings of $57,700. I
was just wondering if you could explain that.
S. STOODLEY:
Sure, 3.2.02?
L. O'DRISCOLL:
No, 3.2.01, Transportation
and Communications.
S. STOODLEY:
Okay.
We had
fewer travel costs for inspection services, which is why we didn't spend what we
had budgeted.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
And under 3.2.02,
Transportation and Communications as well was $44,100. I was just wondering if
you could explain that one.
S. STOODLEY:
Under Transportation and
Communications, 3.2.02, we had the same again: lower travel costs related with
inspections.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Just a
couple of questions. I know that the Member there had asked earlier on
insurance. I think you were speaking about it. When you buy a vehicle, obviously
you have a loan on it. So before you take it, the dealerships will call the
insurance company, get the policy number and make sure they have it before the
vehicle leaves.
Someone
that pays cash for a vehicle, is that what you're trying to get – if somebody
pays cash for a vehicle, say $10,000 or $5,000, they go and get it insured, put
the insurance on it, public liability, then they go cancel it. Is that what
you're trying to track in regard to insurance on vehicles?
S. STOODLEY:
I guess in terms of the
insurance validation project – is that what you're referring to?
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yes.
S. STOODLEY:
It's important that
insurance companies let us know when someone has cancelled their insurance.
Obviously, public liability insurance is mandatory. So we would cancel their
registrations if they cancelled insurance. We can't have drivers driving around
without any public liability insurance.
S. DUTTON:
When we did the auto
insurance review, that was one of the issues that came up in our EngageNL
survey, in our discussions with insurers and other stakeholders. The concern was
that people would go online and they could list a policy number in order to get
their registration for the year and then cancel their policy. We didn't have any
feedback loop to find out when those sorts of things occurred.
To do a
paper-based process to have hundreds of thousands of people send in their
insurance information wasn't really practical. So that's why the electronic
solution was devised, so we'd get real-time data when people cancelled a policy.
Then you'd be able to connect that with law enforcement.
So,
again, we're at the very late stages of completing the project. We just need to
ensure that we have a secure means for transfer of the information between the
Insurance Bureau and their members and the registrar.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I know the bank is looking
after their interest, when you – I keep saying mortgage – get a loan for a car
and you call out and you're going to change insurance companies. The insurance
company will notify the bank if somebody tries to change the insurance. Then the
bank will get after that person to get insurance. But I'm thinking on a vehicle
that doesn't have a loan on it and there is nothing tied to it. They're the ones
that we have to be careful with. Because you could buy a car off me today, you
go get public liability and you go cancel it. Are they calling you to say that
the insurance is gone? That's the ones that get you in trouble, not the other
ones.
S. STOODLEY:
At the moment, they would
not be able to renew their insurance, so we would find out at time of renewal
because you need an active insurance policy to renew your vehicle. But with this
new project, then the insurance companies would tell us when someone cancelled
and we would then look at whether or not it was appropriate to cancel their
vehicle registration.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Just trying to be clear
because, like I said, I go get insurance today on a vehicle that has no loan
attached to it. I go get the insurance, I get the policy number, register the
car and then go cancel the insurance. Is that what (inaudible) –?
S. STOODLEY:
That is what we are
preventing against.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
That is what you're trying
to prevent.
S. STOODLEY:
Yes.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
And that is what is going to
happen, so that is good. There were lots of times that happened. When we sold
cars, if you bought a car for cash that was up to you if you put insurance on
it. Now, if you had a loan on it, we had to make sure that if you left the lot
and didn't have insurance in place – because we'd do an online one but you'd
have to make sure it was done on a loan. But on the other one, if you left the
lot and then wrote off a $10,000 car, well, that's your loss because you didn't
have it on it, but hopefully that is changing.
S. STOODLEY:
But it is the law to have
public liability insurance.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Oh yeah.
S. STOODLEY:
This would be an extra
measure, but it is the driver's responsibility to follow the law of owning a
vehicle.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
The same thing could be said for house insurance with people losing their houses
–
S. STOODLEY:
No, it's not mandatory to
have house insurance.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
No, but I'm saying the same
thing could be said. House insurance is something that should be mandatory, you
would think, if people happen to burn down their house and then it's gone.
Anyway, we will move on –
S. STOODLEY:
If you got pulled over
without insurance, you'd get a ticket. It is illegal not to have public
liability car insurance.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yeah, absolutely. That is
where your $30,000 to $40,000 people that got these fines that you can never get
to the end. They buy their car, cancel the insurance, get caught, they don't
care and they go do it again.
S. STOODLEY:
That's Justice and Public
Safety.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yeah, but you're trying to
get to it, so I see that point.
Under
3.3.01, last year there was a savings of $766,000 in Salaries. Can you explain
that?
S. STOODLEY:
So we had a vacancy for a
hygienist and occupational health and safety officer positions throughout the
year and then the delays of recruitment.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
We also had similar savings
last year and the same Estimates. So I'm just wondering have the same positions
been vacant for that period of time.
S. DUTTON:
They're not all the same every year. Some of that is we'll hire people, let's
say, in our Labrador West office, they may be there for a few years and then
they compete for a job in Corner Brook or Grand Falls and then there's a
turnover. So that's one of the types of situations we're dealing with today.
We're
also looking at doing some internal review around the resources required for the
investigations. We were talking about that a little bit earlier. We do have a
number of investigations around serious incidents that go on. They're very time
consuming and require a lot of specialized skills, so we're also taking a look
at are there things we can do to help ensure we have the right skill sets to
support our OHS officers when it goes from the inspection into the investigation
stage.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
3.3.01, Transportation and Communications, last year there was a savings of
$135,000. I wonder if you could explain that.
S. STOODLEY:
So the decrease reflects a
savings in travel costs associated with occupational health and safety accident
investigations.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
And
under Supplies, this year the budget for Supplies has been increased. Can you
give us some commentary on that, please?
S. STOODLEY:
Sure.
So we
looked at the budget required for all of our occupational health and safety
subscriptions and publications, the CSA standards,
Journal of Occupational and Environmental
Hygiene, OHS Insider
and the Newfoundland portion towards the development of CSA standards, and we
needed an extra $7,200.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Under Purchased Services,
can you explain what services are included here and what explains last year's
savings?
S. STOODLEY:
Sure.
So the
savings, we had a reduction in in-person training and radiology services. We had
a lower requirement for witness fees and experts when we're looking at securing
accident scenes. This would include advertising, vehicle repairs and
maintenance, equipment rentals, meeting rooms, lease of office space in Corner
Brook, Grand Falls-Windsor, Wabush and St. John's; maintenance and analysis of
hygiene samples; implementation of professional development for staff; and
training.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
Under
Revenue - Provincial, how is that revenue generated and can you provide an
explanation for the less than anticipated revenue last year?
I note
that last year when we were in Estimates, I asked the same question. Is there a
pattern here or is COVID a part of that problem?
S. STOODLEY:
The revenue we get is
because all occupational health and safety expenses are recovered from
WorkplaceNL which are recovered from the Workplace Injury Fund. So, essentially,
employers pay a fee to WorkplaceNL. That goes into a fund and then that pays for
all the occupational health and safety costs that we have. The more costs we
have, the more they pay, essentially. So when our costs go down, they pay less.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Perfect.
Under
3.4.02 under Grants, can you outline the purpose of this $8,000? It looks like
only $2,500 was spent last year.
S. STOODLEY:
3.4.02?
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yes.
S. STOODLEY:
Okay.
These
are grants to safety organizations: Newfoundland and Labrador Occupational
Health and Safety Association, the Canadian Society of Safety Engineering,
Safety Services Newfoundland and Labrador, Canadian Standards Association,
Newfoundland and Labrador Employers Council, NAOSH, Newfoundland and Labrador
Construction Safety Association, Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Labour
and SafetyNet.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
I only
have one more question in that section, then that will be done.
CHAIR:
Yes, you go ahead.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Revenue - Provincial, can
you please outline where this revenue comes from?
S. STOODLEY:
This is just revenue – this
is what WorkplaceNL pays us. We give out the grants and then WorkplaceNL pays us
back.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay, perfect.
CHAIR:
Thank you.
MHA
Dinn.
J. DINN:
Thank you, Chair.
Just
with regard to the insurance, I think it's a great idea in terms of if it's
cancelled and the registration is void, but how do you enforce it in terms of –
I guess it's like a locked door, locks on doors, really they're for honest
people. So how do you make sure that the person is not actually out driving
around in the car anyway? Or is it going to be a chance that it gets reported or
the police happens to be behind the person? Or are they notified then: I just
wanted to let you know we need a response, are you aware that your insurance has
been
cancelled? You need to renew. Or are you then going to escalate it to the point:
We'll put a boot on your car until you get the proper insurance.
I'm just curious how that would work enforcement-wise.
S. STOODLEY:
So I guess once the project is live, we will be notified that someone has
cancelled their insurance and we can cross-reference that with, you know, when
their vehicle was renewed. And then we would just pass that information on to
law enforcement and work with them on the execution and the operationalization
of that.
J. DINN:
Excellent.
Maybe that will save us some money, too, in terms of fines and that as well.
Under 3.3.01, how many inspectors are currently employed by the department in
total? I think you said – no, sorry, that was something else. But how many
inspectors would be employed there under OHS?
G. BOLAND:
Just focusing on our main inspectors, so our Occupational Health and Safety
inspectors, we have lots of different types of positions, but in Labrador, we
have one currently. We are recruiting for another. In Grand Falls-Windsor, we
have three Occupational Health and Safety officers. In Corner Brook, we have
five and in the metro area we have 14.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
I'm trying to figure out if this one was asked. With regards to 3.3.0, spending
on Supplies and Professional Services was lower than budgeted last year. Why was
the allocated money not spent?
S. STOODLEY:
So in terms of Supplies, lower than anticipated requirement for uniforms, PPE
and field supplies. Then under Professional Services, we had less than
anticipated need for witness fees and bringing in experts in relating to
accident scenes.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
3.4.01, how many dependents are currently receiving assistance through this
program? Last year it was 40. The year before it was 43.
S. STOODLEY:
Thirty-one.
J. DINN:
Thirty-one.
That's it for the questions. One last thing and I know it was brought up in the
House of Assembly, but in these Estimates there seems to be an awful lot of
vacancies throughout. Is there a problem with – I guess, does government have a
good name? I'm just trying to get an – as to why there seems to be so many
vacancies because there's a certain level of job security or have you done any
analysis as to why?
I mean, there are a lot of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and immigrants who
would certainly be able to fill these positions, I figure. But I'm just trying
to get an idea: Have
you done an analysis as to why there seems to be so many vacant – even talk to
your Cabinet colleagues as to what the rationale is here or what's behind it.
S. STOODLEY:
I guess, just from my
perspective, there would be – when someone leaves a job, there's the timeline
associated with – we may or may not know in advance whether they're going to
leave. Then the internal process, work with HR to go through the system and then
I see it at a certain point. Then the time to post the job, all that to happen.
We can't do all of those at once, so we prioritize at any given time which ones
have priority.
I'll
let Sean –
S. DUTTON:
I guess I could add, though,
that if you look at data from Statistics Canada and the Atlantic Provinces
Economic Council, there is a higher rate of vacancy across the economy in all
employers. So it's not that we're having a unique problem. There are some jobs
that are harder to fill because they're very specialized skillsets. Anybody
listening out there who is qualified to be an elevating devices inspector, we
will hire that person to work in any part of the province; location is
negotiable. We are working to try to address those types of challenges.
I guess
in terms of the turnover, we are also looking at where we can try to shorten the
time frames on processing of some of the back office work, like a request for
staffing action approval to try to shorten those time frames as well.
There's
been a lot of discussion globally about the great resignation and those sorts of
things. I don't know if that's indicative of people not being as interested in
work that's not completely in their niche, finding other things to do, but
certainly we do have opportunities. We're posting them on the job site for the
provincial government, on the main page, and we'd certainly encourage people
interested that we have a number of openings in our various offices throughout
the province.
J. DINN:
Thank you.
That's
it for me, Chair.
CHAIR:
MHA O'Driscoll.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I just got a couple of small
questions there. Just under the insurance again.
So
somebody has a motorcycle and it has to be registered, obviously. When they park
that in the shed and don't use it anymore, because they're only using it for the
summer months, they cancel their insurance. It's in there stored away. How will
that work? That's something I'm just going to say directly: How will that work?
S. STOODLEY:
I guess this is with my
insurance industry hat on. Generally, I think people don't take the public
liability insurance off; they take the other insurance off. If the vehicle is
still roadworthy, the vehicle is registered for the year – at least from my
experience – people in those situations they keep the insurance on, they just
remove the bodily injury, all that kind of stuff, to save money. They only pay
the minimum while their car is in the garage and then they call their insurance
company back to say, okay, I'm going to drive it again and then they add the
other insurances on.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Yes.
S. STOODLEY:
So they don't cancel public liability.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
I'm going to say that some
people will, like on a motorcycle as an example or – I wouldn't think on a car
because, you know, just if you're storing it away, it would be in your house or
your garage or wherever, but on a motorcycle, I would think they just flat out
cancel it for six months. So you don't want the police showing up at their house
and saying you haven't got your bike insured; well, they're only driving it six
months.
S. STOODLEY:
Well, the insurance company
I worked for, we wouldn't do that. We wouldn't allow them to do that.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
No?
S. STOODLEY:
No.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
Okay.
I will
go back to the Member for St. John's Centre on tinted windows. Most of that is
about enforcement and some of these side garages that are doing it. I agree with
him, sometimes you can't see anything in through these side windows or front
windows, but that's about enforcement and if the police see them they're
certainly ….
One
other thing that I will touch on is seniors. I know you're trying to get most of
this stuff online, but you just have to keep in mind that not all seniors are
able to do it. I'm sure it's never going to be shutdown totally, I wouldn't
think.
S. STOODLEY:
No, of course not.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
No. I just wanted to throw
that out there because that was some of the questions I think we asked last year
when it started.
Before
I finish, and I'm done with my questions, I would like to thank everybody on the
other side there from all the departments for all your work and being so cordial
and answering all the questions. I'm sure it's a tough job to get this done this
time of the year. It's a lot of work involved, I'm sure. Months before this
budget comes out, all the work has to be done. So thank you again.
CHAIR:
Thank you.
J. DINN:
I want to echo my colleague
and say thank you for your work. I know when it comes to registering for
vehicles or anything, it can be a frustrating experience, but I will say that
for the most part, my wife and I, we tend to do a lot of that online and it does
work effectively for those who are competent.
But I
will echo what my colleague for Ferryland says, for a lot of seniors it's a
problem and it's a problem, also, if they go to – as in our case – where my
mother and mother-in-law might come to us and they have to have an email. They
may not have an – there has to be some way that allows family members who are
able to help them to do that without having to go through that extra layer. So
it can work, it's just a matter of making it less frustrating for people and
they'll do it.
S. STOODLEY:
From a MyGovNL perspective,
on the list of things we want to do is to allow someone to have a designated
person to do things on their behalf. I don't have a timeline on that but that is
one of the next highest priority things and that would be for motor vehicle
registration and MCP and that kind of stuff as well.
CHAIR:
Okay.
L. O'DRISCOLL:
(Inaudible) it's not even a
question, but I will say when you're dealing with the public, lots of times when
they go to your counter they're the ones that don't have the information. It's
not the people behind the counter and they give you the frustration. So you're
working in there – I have to tell them to stay with it. I know working in a
service industry, it's always the person at the counter's fault, it's not
someone else.
So pass
that on that I've been there, done that and it's pretty frustrating, but you're
only following the rules. So that's where it's too, they don't have the
information.
But,
again, thank you and thanks for all your work.
CHAIR:
Okay. I ask the Clerk to
recall the grouping.
CLERK:
Digital Government and
Services, 3.1.01 to 3.4.02 inclusive.
CHAIR:
Shall 3.1.01 to 3.4.02
inclusive carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, subheads 3.1.01 to 3.4.02 carried.
CHAIR:
Clerk.
CLERK:
The total.
CHAIR:
Shall the total carry?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
On
motion, Department of Digital Government and Service NL, total heads, carried.
CHAIR:
Shall I report the Estimates
of the Department of Digital Government and Service NL?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
CHAIR:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
CHAIR:
I'd just like to thank our
officials and our Members for being here.
Oh,
sorry, MHA Reid.
S. REID:
I'm in favour as well.
On
motion, Estimates of the Department of Digital Government and Service NL carried
without amendment.
CHAIR:
I keep forgetting you. I'm
used to sitting by you, too, right.
So,
again, thank you to the officials, thank you to the Members, but I'd just like
to ask the minister if she'd like some final remarks.
S. STOODLEY:
Sure, thank you very much.
I will
say we have a very hard-working, diverse team across the province. I spent some
time with some of our occupational health officers across the province, some of
our highway enforcement officers. They are certainly very passionate and
knowledgeable and experts in their field. In our department, we have a range of
experts on a very, very wide variety of topics.
I do
thank our leadership team and our executive team because they also have to
become experts on a wide range of topics. I know it adds the complexity because
I think we have the most legislation of any department. But we also then deliver
that customer service side and those are very different skill sets. Working on
policy and legislation and then also the customer service side.
I know
it is a bit tricky. We have very hard working, a lot of really smart people on
our teams. So I just thank them for their hard work and thank you for asking
these
very important questions. I think this is an important part of the process for
people of the public to see how we are spending their hard-earned money.
Thank you very much.
CHAIR:
Thank you very much, Minister.
I would like to have a motion for adjournment.
L. STOYLES:
So moved.
CHAIR:
Moved by MHA Stoyles.
Call for a vote.
All those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
Thank you all so much.
On motion, the Committee adjourned sine die.