The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Dicks): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am sure all hon. members of the House are very much aware of the great showing that was made in Norway in the last two weeks. I stand today to especially congratulate -

MR. SPEAKER: I should say that if the member has consent of the House to address the House - it would be a bit out of order but but I think we extend him the courtesy, normally.

Go ahead.

MR. MURPHY: - to pass on congratulations through Your Honour to Newfoundland's first athlete to ever win a medal at the Olympics. The very first Newfoundlander to win a medal at the Olympics is Dwayne Norris.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MURPHY: I know we all feel it was an extremely tremendous achievement. The Canadian team did exceptionally well as did all Canadian athletes and I am sure all members of the House would want to pass on to Dwayne our sincere congratulations.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to echo the comments made by the Member for St. John's South in congratulating the Canadian Olympic Team, and especially Dwayne Norris, of whom every time his buddies were interviewed they referred to him as the Newf. And Dwayne Norris certainly didn't feel out of place when they referred to him as Newf. I saw every interview that was done by CTV and all his colleagues always referred to him as Newf and he certainly never felt out of place, and he certainly didn't look out of place when he was on that ice in Lillehammer - a far cry from what the hon. the Member for St. John's South used to look like when he was on the ice, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. HARRIS: I would like to join in and make unanimous the expression of the Member for St. John's South of our pride in our native son, Dwayne Norris, receiving a medal as part of the Canadian Olympic Team. He is not the first Olympian from Newfoundland, as the hon. the Member for St. John's South, and we all know, but we are very proud of that and we are only disappointed that he did not get his chance for a second shot on goal because I am sure he would have made us prouder still, if he had gotten that chance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On behalf of hon. members, I would like to welcome a delegation from the Town of Milltown, Bay d'Espoir, Mr. Jerry Kearley, Mayor, Doug Sutton, Deputy Mayor, and Mr. Clyde Sutton representing the Canadian Legion and the senior citizens from Greenwood Manor, of Milltown.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SIMMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, during the debate on the motion after the Throne Speech was delivered, the Premier spoke with a great deal of passion about the need for the Federal and Provincial Governments to consult the people on issues involving the restructuring of the fishery. In fact, he said it is not good enough for either government to say, here is what it is and then do it; consultation must precede the plan. Those are his words, and I say to him, we agree fully; and it is exactly that process, Mr. Speaker, that we say government should take before proceeding with Hydro privatization, so I want to ask him, will he take to heart his own good advice that the gave to the Federal Government and to us yesterday in the Legislature, will he put aside the Hydro privatization legislation until he has consulted fully with the people of Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WELLS: No, Mr. Speaker. The government proposes to bring the proposal to the House of Assembly for full disclosure of all of the details and for full debate on all of the aspects of it and when that is done I am confident that Members of the House of Assembly who look at it fairly and objectively will come unreservedly to the conclusion that there are compelling reasons to proceed with privatization.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, it is too bad we have a double standard here; nevertheless, that is the government's decision and I wanted to find out precisely whether they would consider their own advice in dealing with matters of this nature. And I wouldn't bet the House on the members in this Legislature supporting, without question, the Premier's proposal, I can tell him that right now as well.

Now, yesterday, Mr. Speaker, as well, the Premier said that he isn't at all concerned if business and investors make great profits in this Province because they can't make profits without creating jobs; those were the Premier's words yesterday during the debate on the Throne Speech. Now, obviously, the sale of Hydro would be the exception to that particular rule because huge profits are going to flow out of this Province. It won't create one new dollar of new business investment and it won't create any new jobs, surely the Premier can't deny that. I want to ask him: Will he, can he guarantee that the privatization of Hydro will create new jobs and will stimulate new business investment in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WELLS: Mr. Speaker, the privatization of Hydro will cause the investment of hundreds of millions of dollars as equity, displacing the hundreds of millions of dollars of debt for which the Government of this Province now has ultimate responsibility and is on the credit of the Province. So it will cause hundreds of millions of dollars to be invested by people who have confidence in the economy of this Province. Now, at the same time that that occurs, it will greatly strengthen the private sector economy of this Province. You can count on two hands the sizeable companies that we have in the private sector of this Province. Look at the level of corporate income tax in Newfoundland and Labrador compared with, say, Ontario. Ontario has - what, forty times our population? - no, eighteen or twenty times our population but they probably have fifty times our tax from corporations. We want to have our fair share of it. We want to increase the private sector activity in this Province and creating a company like the new Hydro would be, would greatly strengthen the private sector. It would be one of the TSE 300 companies - one of the biggest 300 companies in Canada and would be part of the TSE 300. It is not included in the TSE 300 now. It is not a private sector, it is a Crown agency, in effect. So, Mr. Speaker, it will add greatly to the economic vibrancy and activity, and the future of the private sector in this Province will be substantially enhanced by any such endeavour.

MR. SIMMS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I would challenge the Premier on it. We'll see when we get into debate on the legislation whenever it comes forward but, in my view, it will be one of the biggest mistakes ever made by any government in the history of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SIMMS: Because it is not going to be in the best interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Now, yesterday during the debate as well, the Premier talked about the need - and he just alluded to it there then, about the intention to create and improve business climate and all the rest of it. Yesterday he also talked about the need to give businesses a tax break, reduce the burden of taxation on businesses, which is rather ironic since his government is the government that actually piled the taxes on in the first place over the last four or five years.

Now the fact is, the Premier's intention to reduce - or his plan; I am not sure it will come about - business taxes, is because he knows that businesses are going to have to pay higher taxation anyway, because of the tax plan that now exists, and in order to offset that, he knows that they are going to have to pay more for electricity after Hydro privatization, so his intention is to try to reduce taxes because they know they can't pay both high taxes and high electricity rates.

Now that is his plan, Mr. Speaker, and I want to ask him: Isn't it true, or wouldn't he agree, that in fact any money that businesses might save from his reduction in tax plan that he talks about is simply going to be siphoned off in higher electricity rates? Isn't that the fact?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WELLS: The hon. member has made a lot of wrong statements in the House. Seldom has anything been so clearly inaccurate, wrong or unfounded.

MR. SIMMS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A further supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, so the Premier is saying there won't be any increase in electricity rates for businesses in this Province as a result of Hydro privatization; is that what he is saying here today?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WELLS: No. What I said was, the statement the hon. member made couldn't be more unfounded or more incorrect, and I stand by that comment. This suggestion that we are somehow giving them a special tax break so we can offset the increase that there is going to be, he is totally incorrect in his whole representation of it, and when the full story comes out, when the Budget is delivered by the Minister of Finance, when the details of the proposal for Hydro privatization made known so that all of the people of the Province can participate in the debate on it, as soon as that is done, people will become very much aware of how incorrect and totally unfounded the hon. member's comments are.

MR. SIMMS: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I don't know how the Premier can suggest I was incorrect. He just confirmed that, in fact, he can't say there won't be an increase in electricity rates for businesses. He just confirmed what I said, and the reality is that their reduction in business taxes is to help offset that.

Now I want to ask him, in my final supplementary: Does the government also intend to bring in any kind of a tax break for the consumers, the home owners, on the high electricity rates they will have to pay as a result of Hydro privatization?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WELLS: There is no connection between Hydro privatization and taxes whatsoever - none at all. What the government proposes to do with respect to creating a better tax climate, it started last year in the Budget. We intend to pursue that. We intend to continue to bring in policies and bring policies before the House that will be beneficial to industry and which will create a far better climate within which industry can work in this Province, and will act as an inducement for new economic development activity to be attracted to this Province, which is what we want to do.

Mr. Speaker, I just ask the Leader of the Opposition to simply wait until he sees the Budget, and wait until perhaps in a few days when he has the information tabled on what is involved in Hydro privatization. Then he won't have to speculate on what the rate level might be for industry or might not be. He will know and he will be able to comment on what the prospective rates probably are, and he will be able to handle it far more effectively at that time and I will be able to answer questions far more effectively at the same time.

MS. VERGE: You have the information now! So answer now!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Menihek.

MR. A. SNOW: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the President of Treasury Board. We've learned that at least 200 teachers - about 3 per cent of the full-time teachers of this Province - have filed for retirement before the end of March to avoid the loss of severance pay. Of course, this is probably going to cause a similar stampede in hospitals and other places in the public sectors with regard to public employees in this Province. I'm sure the minister has been monitoring this. Can he tell us the numbers of people who have filed for early retirement or for retirement?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I can't give him numbers up to date today. I think there were probably upwards of eighty by the end of last week. Yes, that situation does exist. It's unfortunate that it exists but it certainly does exist.

MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the hon. the Member for Menihek.

MR. A. SNOW: Mr. Speaker, we've learned that it is over 200, not eighty. I'm surprised that the minister is attempting to mislead the people. I'm sure it isn't deliberate.

This unexpected retirement of public employees will affect the delivery of government services. The problems will be most acute of course in the hospitals and in our schools. Why did the minister propose to cut off severance on March 31 when he knew it would cause a massive exodus of teachers from the classrooms and employees from the wards of our hospitals?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to remind the hon. member that we are into a collective bargaining process. The process essentially -

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. BAKER: The hon. member might listen if he wants to understand what that process is. The process essentially is that the employer tables an initial proposal; the employees, represented by their union, also table an initial proposal. Then the normal process is that for a period of time - days, weeks, maybe several months - there is collective bargaining, there is discussion.

Now what we have said to our employees is that we have outlined to them the financial problems this Province faces, number one. Number two, we said to them that we would prefer not to deal with this problem by reducing normal take-home pay of employees. We would prefer not to deal with the problem through planned lay-offs in the public service, so we have set those parameters that we prefer not to discuss at this point in time, and then we have tabled a list of possibilities of items for discussion, of suggestions where we feel our objectives could be achieved, and we said to the unions: We look forward to having a look at your alternatives and discussing the alternatives to achieve our objective.

So, Mr. Speaker, this is a normal collective bargaining process. What is unfortunate about it is that all of a sudden a particular union has taken the government's initial proposal and, I believe, gone to the membership and said: Government has said they are going to legislate all of this.

That is not what has happened, and it is unfortunate that irresponsible behaviour has created the panic in the system. So, Mr. Speaker, I recognize this may cause problems in the system, but I also recognize it is as a result of the total abandonment of the collective bargaining process by one of the unions in particular.

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Menihek.

MR. A. SNOW: Mr. Speaker, the minister recognizes the problem that he has created, and I thoroughly agree with him that the problem is in the collective bargaining process, but it is not because of the unions. It is because of what the minister and this government is doing with the collective bargaining process.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. A. SNOW: Mr. Speaker, he has admitted it is a ploy. The minister told CBC Here and Now last week that cutting severance pay was just a threat - like threatening wife beating - something he has the option of doing, but does not mean he will. That is what he told CBC, Mr. Speaker; but this government has a history in collective bargaining where your deeds match your threats. That is what this government has done, and that is why -

MR. SPEAKER: The question, please.

MR. A. SNOW: - the hysteria is out there. That is why the fear is out there, Mr. Speaker, in the hospitals and in the classroom -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If the member has a question -

MR. A. SNOW: My question, Mr. Speaker, this severance pay cut, if this was a ploy in collective bargaining, and the minister wants to really start the true process of collective bargaining, if he wants to fall in the path that the Premier suggested - unless the Premier was misleading the people yesterday - of co-operation, why doesn't he remove this threat from the bargaining table now, Mr. Speaker? He has the option of doing that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I am sure that the hon. member opposite, as well as the leadership of that union, would love it if we came in and said to everybody, our starting position is everybody gets a 50 per cent salary increase, but that is not the reality. That is not the reality.

The reality is that we have a fiscal problem. The reality is that we had a problem last year which we solved through a temporary measure. That was the reality of last year. This year we still have part of that problem left, so we go to the unions and we lay the case before them, baring our breasts in terms of all the facts and figures. We lay the case before them. We say: We have a problem. We say: Here are the things we would like to discuss, but if you want to substitute other things, please feel free to do so. Let's sit down and let's work out this problem that we all have. Let's work out the solution together. How much more co-operative can we get, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Health.

On January 29 of this year a forty-six year old man, Sylvester Lynch, died of a heart attack at his home in Bay Bulls while waiting for an ambulance to arrive in response to a 911 call.

Now the ambulance was dispatched from the Health Sciences Complex and arrived on the scene forty minutes later. The minister received a full account of this incident on February 9th. Can he explain why a man was allowed to die, waiting forty minutes for an ambulance from the Health Sciences Complex when a fully equipped, fully trained unit was available just three minutes away at the Witless Bay fire department?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, this matter was not brought to my attention at the time that the hon. member said, but I did find out about it quite recently and I am having the matter investigated.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Ferryland.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the ambulance finally arrived at his home it was totally unequipped to deal with the emergency through the 999 even though they were told the person had a heart attack.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Nine one-one.

MR. SULLIVAN: Or 911. The ambulance had no oxygen, it had no heart stimulants, no nerve relaxers, and there was no doctor present. The ambulance attendant could not even start up an IV. A person on hand, his sister, who happened to be a registered nurse, started an IV. Now how could there be such utter negligence? Surely ambulances are not being stripped of their life-saving equipment, or are they? Can the minister tell Mr. Lynch's family why this would have happened?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, from time to time questions are raised by the hon. members opposite in a very frightening manner. We have looked at many of the things that have been raised by members opposite and found them to be not entirely correct. I believe that when hon. members make statements in the House about things that they read in the newspapers and things, that they should really check it out before raising it before the public. What I would like to do before any further comment is to have the matter investigated appropriately rather than this kangaroo court that comes up here every so often from the hon. members opposite.

MS. COWAN: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SIMMS: You are incompetent, boy, you are incompetent!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Ferryland.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I stood by this man two days every week for the last year and spoke with him, twice every single week, and I know his family. It is no joking matter. It is not reflective on an incident, it is reflective on the system generally. The minister knows that Mr. Lynch was sent to the Grace Hospital two days earlier because of severe chest pains and he was not admitted or given tests that are normally used to diagnose heart problems. He was sent home and told to rest. Has the minister found out why he was not admitted for observation at that time and why the proper tests weren't given? Does it have anything to do with government budget cutbacks that have forced hospitals to put restrictions on admissions and diagnostic tests?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, from time to time I get complaints from people in the system about how the health system works. Every time I get a complaint from a person in the system or that person's family I have it investigated. A report comes back to me. I communicate back to the people and we sometimes take remedial measures. The proper procedure is not for people to appeal to the hon. member of the Opposition or to the deputy mayor of St. John's. That is not the way the health care system works. They should appeal through the proper procedure which is here. It is no good for him to raise it in the House and expect an immediate answer until after we do not respond, and that is quite appropriate at that point. What he should do is refer all enquiries to me and we will investigate it and we will get back and try to straighten it out.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford - Kenmount.

MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Education. This morning we listened to a CBC interview with the associate Deputy Minister of Education on the government's plan to implement full-year kindergarten in September, just six months from now. Mr. Crocker told CBC that the department doesn't yet know if there is enough classroom space to accommodate full-year, full-day kindergarten or if a curriculum can be cobbled together between now and September.

In view of the Deputy Minister's uncertainty, will the minister today admit that there are problems with space, problems with the curriculum, and postpone the implementation of the full-day kindergarten until these problems can be appropriately addressed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, the intention of introducing a full-day kindergarten is to help us with the overall reform of education and hopefully give our children a head start in the educational system. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone who would purport to have any interest in education in this Province would try to put roadblocks in the way to delay us from implementing these reforms.

I will tell the hon. member that in some schools it has been suggested that there will be a space problem. The department is having that checked out. So far it seems like it is in a very small, minute number of schools that there will be a space problem.

As for the curriculum, a full-day kindergarten is by no means unique. There are several other provinces which are offering a full-day kindergarten, so a curriculum is available off the shelf. New Brunswick has a full day kindergarten, it is the simplest thing in the world. The department does, quite often take text off the shelf, curricula off the shelf, for various subjects, so curriculum will not be a major problem. But Dr. Crocker is quite right, we have not decided exactly which curriculum we will offer. I should also tell the hon. member that full-day kindergarten is being taught in Newfoundland and Labrador as well, out in the Exploits School Board, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure if it is sheer coincidence or not, but in the last Canadian test of basic skills, Exploits School Board made the greatest strides toward improvement in all of Newfoundland and Labrador. I don't know if it is coincidence but they are teaching a full-day kindergarten in some of their schools, not all of them, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Waterford - Kenmount.

MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the issue is not whether or not we agree with full-day kindergarten; in fact, in the Province of Nova Scotia they have a half day in September to December, a full day after the beginning of the school year and in Alberta, they have just cancelled kindergarten altogether, so that there is a wide number of different programs in the country. But the lack of proper planning is causing great confusion for parents, especially working parents who have to make arrangements now to register their children at day care or early childhood programs if they can't count on full-day kindergarten for September. What does the minister suggest to those parents - should they go ahead and register their children in day care or should they listen to the Associate Deputy Minister, bring up the questions of space and curriculum and register their children for early childhood education programs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, I hope the hon. member's facts are a little more accurate than the ones about Alberta. Alberta is not cancelling kindergarten; Alberta is reducing the number of hours from 400 to 200 a year, which is a long way from actually cancelling.

Mr. Speaker, parents are phoning me from time to time; most of the parents are quite happy and pleased that we intend to do this and I would tell them today exactly what I tell them on the telephone. It is government's intention, it our hope to have kindergarten a full day come this September. However, we cannot tell them 100 per cent with certainty that that will be the case, because we are finding, in some cases, people like to put a road block in the way of education reform, Mr. Speaker, but it is our hope to put them there, it is our hope to have them in September, we certainly would like to do it but I cannot guarantee 100 per cent, I can probably guarantee them 85 per cent or 90 per cent that we will have kindergarten available. And also, we are considering, Mr. Speaker, if there are particular schools in the Province, a minority of schools which do not have the space for full-day kindergarten, we also have the option of going ahead with the various schools and school boards who do have the space available. So there is a possibility we could end up with a few schools which don't have a full-day kindergarten, but that would not be all that different; at the moment, a minority has kindergarten, a full day, some don't. We could end up with a majority of the schools in the Province having a full day; there might be some adjustments that we will have to make to a few others, but the intent is, a full day, Mr. Speaker, to improve, to reform education in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I have a question for the Minister of Environment and Lands.

In the fall of 1992, the Environment and Lands minister said government would bring in legislation to force soft drink companies to use returnable bottles. Last November, after an intense lobby by the Canadian Soft Drink Association, government announced that it changed its mind, and it was really bought off, I guess, by an offer from the Canadian Soft Drink Association to fund a $2 million anti-litter campaign in the Province. I would like to ask the minister: Is the deal with the Soft Drink Association still in place, and if so, when does the minister expect the public relations campaign to begin?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands.

MS. COWAN: First of all, let me clarify one thing, there is no deal. What we have done here, is, follow the advice that has been given to us by the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment and taken a new approach, different from the old-fashioned deposit-refund system, Mr. Speaker. That is now considered outmoded, and it is considered more appropriate to go after the people who produce excess packaging or, in this case, pop containers, and not put the total burden on the consumer. Both the consumer and the manufacturer will share in the burden, which makes an awful lot of sense, so there was no intense lobbying, there was no deal, and I must say, I find those words rather offensive, because what I did, and I am really pleased I did it, was find a better way of doing things, and thank goodness, I don't have such a self-concept that I can't change my mind.

Walt Whitman said -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) to do it.

MS. COWAN: Well, I want to tell you what Walt Whitman said.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS. COWAN: I will save it for a speech some day and they can look forward to that. In the meantime, as far as the campaign itself getting underway is concerned, I am looking forward to its beginning in the spring, as I have indicated all along. That will be either late April or early May.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I wouldn't want to ask the minister a complicated question. But, anyway, I would like to ask the minister - as I understand it, there was a Cabinet committee of ministers that was directed to watch over the development and implementation of the anti-litter campaign. Can the minister tell us what ministers participated, or served on that committee? What ministers were involved in that process?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands.

MS. COWAN: Thank you again, Mr. Speaker. The original paper was brought to Cabinet by me, as Minister of Environment and Lands, and it was decided at Cabinet that we would put in place a committee of the Minister of Industry, Trade & Technology, Tourism and Culture, and Environment and Lands as ministers responsible in overseeing our discussions with the Canadian Soft Drink Association and with CIPSI, the Canadian Packaging Stewardship Initiative.

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I hate to refer to it as a deal, but let me word it this way: As part of its arrangement, I guess, with the government then, the Canadian Soft Drink Association promised to spend a $2 million advertising and public relations budget in this Province. Can the minister tell the House what work is being done in this Province, how the work was awarded, and who is doing the work?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands.

MS. COWAN: Mr. Speaker, this initiative is being undertaken by the Canadian Soft Drink Association and CIPSI, who are two private companies. They have not yet announced who will be doing the work or where, indeed, it will be done. I have heard rumours, as many people have, but it is up to them to make the announcement because it is, indeed, their money that is being spent. The one hope I do have is that they are able to do it in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In view of the fact that the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations is not here, I would like to ask a question of the President of Treasury Board. Can he confirm that in government's savvy to save money on the provincial Budget that $1.2 million is being proposed to be shaved off Workers' Compensation in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. BAKER: No, Mr. Speaker. I can confirm that we have in place a system of Workers' Compensation that will continue in the coming year.

MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has expired.

MR. SPEAKER: In accordance with Section 32 of the Auditor General Act, I must table the auditor's report and annual financial statements respecting the audit of the Office of the Auditor General for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1993, and I do so table this report.

The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to table the Public Accounts Volume I, the Consolidated Revenue Fund summary financial statements to the year end, March 31, 1993. I would also like to table, Mr. Speaker, Public Accounts Volume II, the Consolidated Revenue Fund supplementary statements and schedules for the year ending March 31, 1993 and,as well, the Public Accounts Volume III, accounts of Crown corporations, boards and authorities for the year ending March 31, 1993.

MR. SPEAKER: In accordance with Section 13 of the Auditor General Act, I hereby table the Annual Report of the Auditor General for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1993.

The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WILLIAM ANDERSEN III: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Select Committee appointed to draft a reply to the Speech of His Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor, I present a report of the Select Committee as follows:

To His Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor, the Hon. Frederick W. Russell, C.M., LL.D., may it please Your Honour, we, the Commons of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative session assembled, beg to thank Your Honour for the Gracious Speech which Your Honour addressed to this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On motion, report received and adopted.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the annual report for Enterprise Newfoundland and Labrador and the financial statements for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1993.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To End The Automobile Insurance Act."

MR. SPEAKER: Answers to questions for which notice has been given.

MS. VERGE: What about the Public Libraries report?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for LaPoile.

MR. RAMSAY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to rise with a petition on behalf of some 685 residents of the community of Rose Blanche on the Southwest Coast in the district of LaPoile. Mr. Speaker, I would like to first read the prayer of the petition into the record:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland in Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of the district of LaPoile:

Whereas we, the undersigned residents of the town of Rose Blanche, implore upon the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to avoid finalizing matters with respect to the government-owned fish plant in Rose Blanche;

Whereas a revitalized fishery may, in fact, be centred around the hook and line gear type; and

Whereas the community of Rose Blanche has the largest number of small and medium-sized vessels participating in the hook and line fishery, some 130 fishermen involved on the Southwest Coast, these fishermen have granted that they will work with community leaders on developing proposals for the revitalization of Rose Blanche's fish plant;

Wherefore, we ask your government's indulgence to entertain proposals as may be generated by our community and as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, these petitioners - a delegation on their behalf, travelled to meet with the Minister of Fisheries here in St. John's earlier today. We had a very lengthy meeting and a lot of discussion about the issue of government-owned facilities, the issue of the community of Rose Blanche and what the future will hold with respect to its participation in the fishery. We have in the gallery, a delegation which has travelled in excess of 600 miles to be with us here today, and I thank them for taking the time to come forward and put their position to the minister. As well, Mr. Speaker, I think that theirs is a special case, and not just because they are in the district of LaPoile, which I represent.

The community of Rose Blanche, as I have often said here in this House, is a community which was always seen as a place where unemployment wasn't even thought of. The issue of unemployment for fishermen and plant workers was such in Rose Blanche that they were known as probably being the wealthiest and one of the most highly held communities in the fishery in the Province. It is with that proud tradition that this petition comes forward and these people come to deal with the situation that has now approached us with the fishery.

The hook and line fishery in Rose Blanche as far - I think it was in 1986 there were landings in the order of 20 million pounds landed by hook and line alone - a huge fishery that supplied not only the community of Rose Blanche in the past, history had it supply other communities along the Southwest Coast with fish, and it was known as a real hubbub.

My own situation - I grew up in the town of Port aux Basques, which depended almost entirely on the smaller communities out around Port aux Basques to provide the wealth, the new dollars, the wealth that the whole area was built up on. It is with that, Mr. Speaker, and the wishes of these people who have signed this petition today, that we ask that government consider the situation that they are in, where they would like to be able to work - and not do it blindly and do it in thinking that the future may hold something for them that it doesn't hold for other people throughout the Province.

Because there are a lot of communities in the same circumstance, I understand that, as do the individuals from Rose Blanche. The thing is, they do want the opportunity to be able to put forward proposals as they may be able to arrive at them in approaching the variety of companies or individuals or whatever it is that Rose Blanche's future is held in, and see to it that they do get a fair shake when it comes to government's consideration of the matter.

They would know that government is coming forward with some initiatives, as noted in the Throne Speech, that there will be the presentation of a White Paper. Just hopefully, within the context of whatever is presented, the community of Rose Blanche will be able to pull together and develop some form of a proposal on which their heritage is based, a proposal that will see that community continue and become prosperous again as it has been in the past, and not be reliant on government provisions for them because of problems that were caused by other than them. Because they are the victims in this kind of situation, as are many other fish plant workers and fishermen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I want to rise today to support the petition put forward by the Member for Lapoile and say I would like to commend those in the gallery and others who have taken the initiative of getting this petition and taken the initiative to come to St. John's to meet with the member and the minister.

I can say to the Member for LaPoile and others that the situation in Rose Blanche is one that most of us are very familiar with, all of us along the South Coast, from the southwest corner of Rose Blanche all the way down to the section of the coast where I live on the Burin Peninsula - that we are not used to not working. We were always used to working for twelve months. I remember, not so long ago, that if you got a few days off at Christmas - and no one ever thought about having two or three weeks off in the summer for summer vacation, because the people worked full time, and that is all they knew. Of course, the circumstances and the events of the last number of years have taken their toll on any number of communities along the South Coast and all over the Province.

So I can identify very well with the story that the member has put forward today on behalf of the people of Rose Blanche. I've gone through it a number of times in my own district of Grand Bank with four or five different communities, I say to the member. I want to rise today to support the efforts of the member and the people in the gallery, and all the residents of Rose Blanche and surrounding communities who really, I guess, are crying out for an opportunity to make a living and to keep their community alive.

A lot of communities all around our coast are going through the same kind of process. I want to say to the Minister of Fisheries and to the Premier and the government that in some of those communities there are opportunities, but it is going to take the willingness of the government, it is going to take the help of the provincial Department of Fisheries, the provincial Department of Industry, Trade and Technology and other departments, to work very closely with the people in those communities to seize upon any opportunity that may arise.

If they are not successful in keeping their community alive in finding employment opportunities, it will not be because the people in the communities are not trying to do so. A lot of times the blame and the fault must come back to rest with those in government, whether it be the provincial or federal governments. In this case here we are petitioning the provincial government, and the provincial Minister of Fisheries in particular.

So I guess all I say to the Minister of Fisheries is: Put your shoulder to the wheel with your officials. Work with the member. Work with the people. There may be an opportunity that will arise soon that will provide an opportunity for those people; and there are other communities that we have seen come forward over the last year or so that there are opportunities in their communities, Mr. Speaker, but we have seen it being taken away and eroded by the very government that is supposed to help them.

That is an issue for another day when we will get into one or two of those communities that have had an opportunity, that have found a new operator for their fish plant, and were thinking that a licence was there for them when they found that golden opportunity of a new operator willing to put in money, only to find out, when they have gone through this whole process, that the Minister of Fisheries and the provincial government, and their member, who should have been supporting them, has really pulled the rug out from under their feet and now they do not have an opportunity.

So I want to say to the Member for LaPoile, I support your petition 100 per cent, and I support the people who are trying to keep their community alive and to find some employment opportunities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries.

MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, in speaking to the petition I want to congratulate the member for presenting it. I met with the delegation that he referred to this morning, in my office, just before lunch, and I think they pretty well understand the situation and how limited the options are.

The plant that is in Rose Blanche has had a long history. I believe it was built there by the Hardy interests, and subsequently sold, I believe, to Rose Ting, and subsequently to that, expropriated by government at a time when there were plants expropriated in Port aux Basques and St. Lawrence and, of course, the one in Rose Blanche.

Now the delegation this morning, I think, pretty well agree that maybe that is where the problem really started, back in 1988, when the government of the day expropriated that plant, because in so doing, on looking back, it probably deprived the people of Rose Blanche from getting a good, solid operator to move in there to buy the plant and to have a long-term commitment to its operation and to -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am having trouble hearing the hon. minister, and he is fairly close to me.

MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, the current owners, Conpak Seafoods, rented the plant from the government and just a few weeks ago, in fact, notified government that they were no longer interested in its operation, and they walked away from it. The main problem, of course, given by the company, was the fact that there was a shortage of fish. That, Mr. Speaker, is common around the Province these days.

I explained to the group this morning the problems that we are having, and that everybody recognizes the fact that we do have considerable overcapacity in the processing sector. We have to downsize the processing sector, and it would not be fair to tell them, or to give them an assurance, that the licence would be reinstated in that plant, because the conditions under which that would happen are far beyond the capability of anybody in this House. In fact, I don't suppose there is a person on this planet who can predict, with any level of certainty, just how much fish will be here next year, or ten years from now. So it is difficult to be able to say what plants will be open two, three, five or ten years from now, not knowing how much fish will be available for them to process.

I should point out that on that corner, on the southwest corner of the Province, there are presently four plants operating. There is a plant in Port aux Basques, of course, one in Burnt Island, Margaree, Isle aux Morts, and the plant in Rose Blanche would have been the fifth plant. I think the delegation this morning agreed, too, that that is too much capacity for that area, given the fact that the stocks are in short supply right now.

Mr. Speaker, I was happy to have met with the delegation and I can say they were very understanding and obviously got a very good grasp of what is happening. I can only tell them that as time goes on we will be presenting in this House our White Paper on fisheries at which time we will be outlying the criteria for the issuing of licenses. We will just have to wait and see, but I do not want those people to return to their communities feeling certain they are going to be able to have a license to operate their fish plant. I can only tell them the matter is under review and there will be a White Paper outlying government's policy presented in the House during this session and then we will have to wait and see what happens from there.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, could we do Motion No. 1 first and then we will deal with the Address in Reply?

MR. SPEAKER: Motion No. 1. Motion, the hon. the Premier to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting The Privatization Of The Newfoundland And Labrador Hydro-Electric Corporation," carried. (Bill No. 2)

On motion, Bill No. 2 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, we have received a report of the Select Committee to deal with the Address in Reply but I am advised it is necessary to adopt it formally so could the House move to that and then I will ask Your Honour to call the Address in Reply debate? I believe we are going to be treated to a speech by my friend for Grand Bank.

MR. SPEAKER: I might ask the hon. Government House Leader on the Address in Reply, we earlier accepted the report, did we not, the committee report?

MR. ROBERTS: We said presently and I guess presently is here, Mr. Speaker, but, of course, I am in your hands.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion in favour of adopting the report as tabled, carried.

The hon. Opposition House Leader.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I saw the Member for Eagle River rise in his place and I thought he might have had some urgent business he wanted to bring to the attention of the House.

It is my pleasure today to rise and have a few words in response to the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne of yesterday.

I suppose to a degree I can say I found it interesting. It is not too often you can say, or I can say anyway in the time I have been here, that I found a Throne Speech to be interesting, but with the bold initiatives that government is putting forward and going to bring to the floor of the Legislature over the next five or six months - I would say they will probably be brought to the floor of the House before, probably in the next two or three weeks, but before they are dealt with, if ever by the House, I am sure five or six months will at least have elapsed.

I see my good friend the President of Treasury Board, the Minister of Finance, and it seems as if he is smiling almost in agreement that he sort of anticipates that it just might be that kind of a sitting here as we begin now this day March 1, 1994. Mr. Speaker, I did find some of the things interesting and I look forward to a vigorous debate once the respective pieces of legislation are brought to the floor of the Legislature for members to peruse and debate. Of course the first one that we all know is coming is the privatization of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro.

MR. SIMMS: I want to hear the back benchers' views.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Sorry?

MR. SIMMS: We want to hear the back benchers' views.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I'm sure that the members opposite will be on their feet in lively debate. I don't think that they will be stifled, I say to the Leader of the Opposition. I don't think any of them over there on these very important and dramatic issues, dramatic decisions that will be made on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, that I think that we are going to see quite a participation by members opposite in the privatization of Hydro and the education reforms that are coming forward, and all the other issues that are mentioned in this Throne Speech. I'm sure they will be participating.

I think the Premier summed it up very well yesterday when he said it will probably be one of the most, if not the most, significant sitting of the Legislature perhaps since Confederation.

MR. SIMMS: Most stormy.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I don't know if it is going to be all that stormy but if the weather outside the last month or two is any indication I expect that it might be at times considered to be stormy and aggressive. Perhaps a little bit miserable at times.

Having said that, I hope in the final analysis of whatever happens here that what is put forward and what is debated and I guess what is approved and passed in the Legislature first and foremost puts the interests of the people of the Province before everything else. The Premier had a great few moments on that yesterday. As a matter of fact I couldn't believe really that it was the Premier who was saying those things yesterday when he talked about consultation and cooperation and all those other words that this government, Mr. Speaker, is not very well known for.

This government is known for being confrontational. They are known for not listening. They are known as being very dogmatic. Dictatorial. More and more every day out and about in this Province now when you are out there you hear this reference to this dictatorial regime. I have to be honest and say that to me it is quite amazing how quickly things have changed. Because up to a few short months ago there was the odd inference or reference to the Premier being that way and the government being that way, but now you can't go out for a quiet lunch unless people are coming up to you and saying those things about the Premier and the government.

There is no doubt that the bloom is off the rose. The Premier is under severe attack from the electorate. The government is under severe attack. With the initiatives that they announced yesterday in the Throne Speech I will not be surprised if they are not literally under attack in another month or two right here on the steps of the Confederation Building. Because that is what I expect. Because the people out there are so full of anguish and torment. Their lives have been disrupted so much that they are ready to lash out. Usually they lash out at those who are closest to them. In this case, it is the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, the government that is expected to stand up for them first and foremost, to put the people of Newfoundland and Labrador before everyone and anything else.

I think that is one thing that the people have come to realize now, is that this government that is supposed to stand up and protect their interests and speak for them has done anything but that. As a matter of fact, the people out and about the Province think that this Premier is putting the interest of the country before the interest of his own Province. The recent income supplementation proposal that the Premier.... He went under the cover of darkness almost to Ottawa and gave it to the new Prime Minister and said: Prime Minister, here is what my Cabinet has endorsed. Would you have a look at this, Mr. Prime Minister? This is what we would like you to consider.

MR. SIMMS: Here is what I've told my Cabinet to endorse.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Whatever. This is what we would like for you and your government to consider, Mr. Prime Minister.

It has some very dire consequences for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker. It has some dire consequences for the unemployed, dire consequences for all the fisherpersons out and about this Province who are being kept alive today by NCARP and the other fisheries compensation packages that this Premier went to Ottawa and suggested that it either be done away with completely or significantly reduced.

Now that is what is happening out and about the Province, Mr. Speaker, and we only have to reflect back to Sunday, when thousands of them came to the waterfront in St. John's, came to the waterfront in St. John's, Mr. Speaker, and who was the main target of attack on the waterfront of St. John's on Sunday? It was this Premier and this government because they can't believe that this government would propose measures that would so significantly harm them and, Mr. Speaker, I can only say this: Thank God, that Mr. Axworthy and other ministers in the federal government did not go as far as this Premier wanted them to go, because if they had, the fisherpersons would be in here today and have this place taken over I say to the Premier; they would have it taken over, because it is going to cause enough grief with what the federal government has done, but if they had gone as far as this Premier wanted them to go, Mr. Speaker, God knows what the end results would be.

AN HON. MEMBER: The premier is singing out.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, I don't care who sings out at me. It does not bother me who sings out at me in this Legislature.

MR. SIMMS: The Minister of Finance says you got to have faith.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes. Who said?

MR. SIMMS: The Minister of Finance, keep faith.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I say to the Minister of Finance, if there is one person in this House of Assembly who really needs a lesson in faith and trust, is this minister, because what we see going on in the public service in this Province today amongst the teachers, the education system, in our health care institutions and in every department of government here, a mass exodus, because this minister is threatening to do away with severance pay. People who have worked twenty-eight, twenty-nine years of their lives -

DR. KITCHEN: The sky is falling again!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Never you mind about the sky falling again I say to the Minister of Health. No, I am going to tell you something. It wasn't any Harlequin Romance fell on your head, I tell the Minister of Health, it was something a lot heavier than that. Now, Mr. Speaker, that is what is happening in this Province today and members opposite know it, I don't have to tell them. They are out and about their districts the same as I am out and about mine and in other parts of the Province on occasion, they know what is happening, you can see it written on their faces these days, Mr. Speaker, you can see it written on their faces and there is a lot of them who are not very happy.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, you are always happy, I say to the Minister of Health. Everything is wonderful in its own way, I say to the minister. It wasn't a very happy occasion the Member for Ferryland brought up to you today and the occasion that I brought up to you just about a year ago, to which you have not yet responded.

AN HON. MEMBER: What was that?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Another death, that happened -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, you have all the answers, there is no doubt.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: How long ago was that, that you have not stood in your place and given an answer to the family in Grand Bank who lost their relative, and now, another incident today, that you won't answer for I suppose; everything is wonderful, I say to the Minister of Health.

Tomorrow means whenever in parliamentary terms: I will answer tomorrow.

Now, Mr. Speaker, there is going to be some lively debate on privatization of Hydro, the education reforms and all the other legislation and possibly I guess, privatization as the Premier referenced in the Throne Speech yesterday. His ministers have been asked to look at other potential privatization initiatives outside of Computer Services, Newfoundland Farm Products -

DR. KITCHEN: We are going to privatize the Opposition.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well I wish you would I say to the Minister of Health but there is one thing we do know, Mr. Speaker, that we will never have an opportunity to privatize the Minister of Health because no one would want to privatize him. There are other things that people might want to do with him but I don't think, if the government was to call for public offers on the Minister of Health, I don't think they would need any committee of advisors like they had for Hydro. Now, Mr. Speaker, well what can I say about the poor Minister of Health? I can only say that the Premier has been a little too late in his Cabinet shake-up that he promised just before he left for Asia. He has waited a little too long. The word was that he was waiting until the results of the Placentia by-election because he wanted to dangle that carrot in front of the electorate of Placentia that maybe the Liberal candidate - if you elect her, she might serve in my cabinet.

MR. TOBIN: He said sure, he'd be proud to have her in the caucus.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I heard the Member for Terra Nova on the radio one day talking about how much she was looking forward to working with the Liberal candidate and what a wonderful addition she was going to make. The Member for Eagle River was out in Placentia every second day.

MR. SULLIVAN: That is why she lost.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I only wish I knew then what I know now, Mr. Speaker. I would have made sure that he had a hotel room and meals for the whole duration of the campaign -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: - because the MHA for Placentia would have won by even a bigger majority, I say to the member. Every time I listened to CHCM Radio in Marystown it was a giant rally of workers meeting in some town and Mr. Danny Dumaresque will be there.

AN HON. MEMBER: Beaton was out there?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, Beaton was out there, the Member for Fogo.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, the man who was responsible for the affairs in Placentia during the by-election process was the Member for Bellevue. It was that rough in Placentia for him, Mr. Speaker, that he even lost his beard. They even took away his beard.

MR. SULLIVAN: They scalped him.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, really what it was, was that he disguised himself. He had a shave so they couldn't recognize him.

The one that really took the cake, Mr. Speaker, was the big advertisement about the giant rally a day or two before the election. They went on and listed them out and said that the special guest speaker was the Provincial Minister of Fisheries. Well that took the cake altogether. They couldn't even pay to get them into the hall, Mr. Speaker, because we know one of the biggest reasons why the Placentia result was as it was, it was because of the attack on fisherpeople.

The proposed and suggested attack by this Premier and this government on fisherpersons in this Province, is to not only reduce their UI and to increase the qualifying period of time, Mr. Speaker, but they propose to wipe it out, to wipe it out altogether. Members opposite know, Mr. Speaker. I am sure the Liberal candidate, who I understand was a most credible person too by the way, she understands why and she knows what happened. As a matter of fact I heard that she was telling a few people in the lobby yesterday that she knows some of the things that went on. She wasn't to pleased with some of the actions of who she thought were to be her colleagues. Of course she was optimistic. You can't blame the lady for that.

The Member for Port de Grave, Mr. Speaker, I see that there are some people pointing at him but he couldn't devote the time that he would have liked to in Placentia. Now I am not suggesting the result would have been any different but I have to give him credit for setting some very good political smarts, Mr. Speaker, and -

MR. SIMMS: Staying away.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, no - and knowing what to do on the ground.

MR. TOBIN: Bill he was in Southern Harbour and reported back that they were going to sweep it.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, did he?

MR. TOBIN: Yes.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, I didn't know that.

MR. SIMMS: His lips are sealed.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: It was reported back that there was going to be a sweep in Southern Harbour. What was it 280 to fifty or sixty?

MR. EFFORD: The only mistake you're making is, you need me to write your questions for you.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I know. I say to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation - oh, I can't say it. I don't want to let all the secrets out, I say to the minister. He said: All I need is for him to write my questions for me. I had better stop right there.

The only thing with the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation is that most of the questions he asked when he was in the Opposition is what he found out in the dark of night. He probed in the dark of night with his flashlight. He probed in crawl spaces. He went into places that I don't think man had ever ventured before and he would come back the next day and he would sound so convincing, Mr. Speaker. He would sound so convincing.

AN HON. MEMBER: He was good though. You have to admit that.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: He was not too bad. I remember very well that the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation when he was social services critic, and my good friend the Member for Burin - Placentia West was the minister, I remember it very well.

MR. SIMMS: They are throwing you off track now. You are giving a great speech. Never mind that old nonsense.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: If you are going to speak for two or three hours you need to have a little disruption that you can interact to.

There is one thing I must say, Mr. Speaker, there is one thing that I've done -

MR. DUMARESQUE: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: - since I've started, I say to the Member for Eagle River, is that I've silenced the Minister of Finance. He is there now with a very sad face. He is really wondering now in his mind, he is anticipating now going out to the press and telling them that this severance pay stuff is really only a bluff. I am going to announce to you now that this is off the table because I don't want this mass exodus out of our schools or our hospitals. I don't want that. I don't want positions being vacated. Because you know it is one thing to have 400 or 500 teachers leave the system, which some people would say is a positive step, and to a degree I think it -

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: It is 200 now, I say to the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture, right now. I would suggest in school districts of this Province there are teachers right now who are meeting with their superintendents to tell them that they are leaving, or first of all to ask them if they can leave, I guess. Because they are supposed to give a notice. Some boards are giving the okay. Because I heard one superintendent on radio today - I think it was after 1:00 p.m., I say to the Minister of Finance - from some region I believe there was thirty-eight or forty-two teachers leaving.

MR. SIMMS: From one board?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: One board. I heard the superintendent on lunchtime. He was saying how really unfair it is to many of those people who have worked so hard and so long over the years in the education system of this Province. They are really being forced out by the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Education, who has become very quiet, I must say, on this issue. Of course, he has enough trouble with the churches, I suppose. He doesn't want to fight with the NTA as well. He can only fight so long.

Of course, you have to remember about the Minister of Education that he is reported to have said that anybody can build up education, that he really wanted to tear it down.

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I can understand the minister saying: Did I say that? Because it is no surprise to us, Mr. Speaker, that the minister can't remember what he says most times or doesn't know what he says.

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh. oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, not being one of your biggest fans, but I do listen to you very closely. I get an awful lot of reports on what the minister says in certain places, I say to him.

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: More faxes coming into my office these days from things the minister said and questions they want me to ask the minister, I say to him, that there would not be enough time left in the question period for all this sitting to ask the minister the questions that people want asked of him. Particularly those from his own district. Very serious questions.

Mr. Speaker, look at the need for educational reform, which no one on this side of the House - and I would say no one on either side of the House - objects to. I support educational reform. I think we have to have educational reform. I don't think that all this emphasis and time and debate that we've gone through the last - my God, since last March. The Premier rose in his place I think March 12 and gave a statement on a Friday morning to the church leaders who were here.

MR. SIMMS: Oh yes. That was when he duped the church leaders.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Before he went to the electorate.

We have gone on for over a year on this issue with the churches, government, schools, all of this stuff. You know, Mr. Speaker, I am not sure, with all this debate and all this time, that if we go the way the government wants to go, or if we go the way the churches want to go, that the quality of education in any of our classrooms around this Province will improve. I am not convinced of that, you know, because I don't think we are getting at the real issues to improve the quality of education in this Province, and I say that very sincerely.

I think this is an awful, confrontational situation we have here, and I am not so sure, if everyone was to agree with what the Minister of Education wants to do, and what he is proposing, I don't think the quality of education is going to improve in the Grade IV classroom in Partanna Academy in Grand Bank, I say to the minister; and I don't think if we go 100 per cent the way the church leaders want to go, I don't think it is going to improve the quality of education in the Grade IV classroom in Partanna Academy in Grand Bank. I don't believe it, Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister. I will tell you something, Minister, if you believe that, then you should start espousing your reasons why, and try to convince people.

MR. DECKER: I've done that. Do you want a copy of Adjusting the Course?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, my God, Adjusting the Course; part one or part two? When are you going to get part three?

The best way to adjust the course in education in this Province, I say to the minister, is for him to go up now to the eighth floor and get his letter of resignation in to the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Because I will guarantee you one thing, if this Minister of Education was out of there by six o'clock, we would have an agreement between government and the churches in no time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I will tell you something - there are members on both sides, and members on that side, who know what I just said is very, very true - the biggest obstacle to getting an agreement is the present Minister of Education, and no one should be surprised. Look at the problems we had in health when he was there. We still have problems in health, but that minister seems to create a lot of problems, whatever department, whatever responsibilities he is given in government.

Mr. Speaker, as I alluded to first when I started to speak -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Education is not part of the Throne Speech, I say to the minister?... wide-sweeping reforms that this minister is bringing to this House.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The Budget hasn't been brought in yet, I say to the minister. You talk about an attack on the Minister of Education when that comes in.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I am talking about a government that has lost the confidence of the people. Dogmatic, dictatorial, doesn't listen - that is what we are talking about, arrogance. We are holier than thou; we will always be the government; no worries about us being defeated.

AN HON. MEMBER: For the next three years.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, yes, I say to the Minister of Finance, for the next three years, but I would say over the last day or two the Minister of Finance has looked very closely at his pension benefit statement because he knows that the most he can get out of it is another three years. The most he can hope for is another three years.

So people have lost confidence in the government, Mr. Speaker. That is what has happened, very quickly, I say, as I said earlier.

AN HON. MEMBER: The Opposition has lost confidence.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, no, we haven't, really. There are some of them over there that we still have a little confidence left in, but the government as a whole, as a total, yes; but there are some ministers we have some wee bit of confidence left in.

Mr. Speaker, I want to move the following, seconded by -

AN HON. MEMBER: An amendment to the Throne Speech?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, an amendment to the minister.

This is about confidence, or lack thereof, in the government, Mr. Speaker. That is what this is about, and the poor old Minister of Education doesn't know. Now, if it were three months time I could understand it if he said what was it that came down on February 28? Was it the Throne Speech or the Budget? But, here we are the day after the Throne Speech and he doesn't know if I am speaking to the Throne Speech or the Budget. Mr. Speaker, he only happens to be Minister of Education and a member of the Planning and Priorities Committee of Cabinet. He was in here Sunday afternoon, Mr. Speaker, and I suppose he has worked so long and so hard, he is so tired and fatigued, that he doesn't know what they agreed to do yesterday. The poor man is worked to a frazzle. The Minister of Finance still seems to be holding up. He was here on Sunday - Saturdays, Sundays, Mondays and Tuesdays, but he carries it off in a much better fashion.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to move the following, and I guess I will have to be seconded by someone who is present - okay, seconded by the Member for Humber Valley. I will have to change that here because my good friend for Ferryland was supposed to be here when I did this but he is still out, I guess, talking to the press on a number of matters that will be further developed over the next day or so.

MR. MURPHY: His leadership is moving forward.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I say to the Member for St. John's South that maybe the Member for Ferryland's leadership is moving forward, but his movement so far has been lateral - talking about gridlock! I watched the council last night and someone asked the Mayor did he know what gridlock was, and he said that is something on a football field. They were talking about the lights and the arrow they put on Allandale Road to go left. Andy Wells said it backed up to Empire Avenue so he asked the Mayor if he knew what gridlock was, and Mayor Murphy said, `It is something on a football field, isn't it?' I'm not surprised that he said that, either.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to move, seconded by the hon. the Member for Humber Valley, the following amendment, that all the words after `that' be deleted in the motion before the House and the following words substituted therefor: `this House deplores the government's failure to deal adequately with the real problems facing our people and its failure to provide competent management to our Province.' I would like to move this and ask Your Honour to see if it is in order.

MR. FLIGHT: That is the same one (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: That is the same one, I say to the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture, that he moved when Don Jamieson was Leader of the Opposition. At that time, Mr. Speaker, the minister was so proud to move it. The minister now, the member then, was so proud to move it, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On the motion put forward by the hon. the Member for Grand Bank, the Chair declares that the motion is in order.

The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I want to say to members opposite in a very sincere fashion that it is hard to admit when you are members of the government - I mean, we went through it in our day - I remember when I came in here in 1982 and we won forty-four seats. We were on such a high when we came it here it was unbelievable, I guess, much like members opposite were when they came in in 1989. The government had changed, and I guess they felt pretty good for a few months since this May's election, but a lot of them are not feeling as buoyed up anymore. I remember when we came in in 1982 and then the bottom started to fall out of everything. The bottom fell out of the fishery and we had the whole restructuring. Remember Michael Kirby and Peter John Nicholson. All those fellows who were going to restructure the big fish companies. Then, shortly after that the Bowater problem and it went on and on, in a matter of twelve months. I remember at one Christmas party, well, at the first Christmas party I was here actually, on the floor where we are now -

AN HON. MEMBER: The dungeon.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: We deserve it though, I must say. I have to be honest with you. It looks good on us now up there in the dungeon. One of the leading ministers then, of government, a new member, very sensitive to everything - and if you heard someone called from your district and said that someone said something about you, you didn't sleep that night; and then things started to go bad with your fish plants, and you said, well, this is the end of it I will never be elected again; and every month things got worse and worse and worse, so of course, at the Christmas party up on the fifth floor, you know having a few snorts and -

AN HON. MEMBER: What?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: - I remember, I said to a very prominent minister of the Cabinet of the day, I said: `You crowd from St. John's would look some good the next time in Opposition!' I'll never forget - his glasses fell off - but I guess what I'm saying is, that is what can happen to you, that things can change very quickly, and I would say to members opposite, that I sort of compare that to what is happening right now, where you feel very good after being re-elected, you have a very comfortable majority, but things are not good out and about. I mean, all of us have problems in our districts; people are very, very tormented, there is a lot of anxiety, they are very frustrated, and they are blaming a lot of it on this government, I say to members. Because it is not as easy now either for members opposite, the government, to blame things on Ottawa. They got away with that for four years, but they can't get away with it anymore.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I don't doubt, Mr. Speaker, but what I am saying to members opposite is that the people's confidence in this administration has taken a tremendous beating. This government - and I will say for the third time, that even I, am surprised that it has happened so quickly, because I can't go anywhere now without finding that the Premier in particular and the government in general, are under attack. Whether it is a group of four or five or six people, or a group of 3,000 or 4,000 people, their main target now, their prime target, is the Premier and the administration; and I say to members opposite, just remember, you don't have to reflect back too long, when right across this great country, the same anger, frustration, anxiety and torment were expressed towards one, Brian Mulroney and his administration, and once it sticks so thick, you can't shake it.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, you know, there are some things, I say to the Member for Fogo, for which I can forgive anyone. I can forgive the Leader of the Opposition for going up and supporting -

AN HON. MEMBER: Voting for Campbell?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I can. Sure, there are some things, but members opposite know where I am coming from, they must get it in their districts; I got it in my district when I was a member of the government. As a matter of fact, come Budget times - I remember the time we put the sales tax up to 12 per cent. It just so happened that there was a reception on in my district at the time, that night, and I walked in to the place and I thought I would never get out alive: `You will never get another vote, you betrayed us, you are a traitor,' and I tell you, they had me pretty worried, I believed them then.

AN HON. MEMBER: What happened, `Bill'?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, they changed their minds, they knew I was such a good fellow that they couldn't do without me. But what I am saying is - the Member for Fogo is saying that he kind of thinks that, do all this terrible stuff and they will forget.

MR. TULK: And remember it was 1982 -

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, it wasn't.

MR. TULK: - and you were there in 1989.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, 1985, it was.

MR. TOBIN: Remember when I moved in, `Bill'?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: What is that?

MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible) you were gone?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes.

MR. MURPHY: I heard you were campaigning with your (inaudible) sweater on.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, I never would, because you know, I say to the Member for St. John's South, I could never campaign, Mr. Speaker, with my Grand Bank sweater on because it was red and white. Can you imagine in the middle of the election campaign, me, going around with a red and white Grand Bank sweater on?

AN HON. MEMBER: I'll have to get the loan of that one for the next election.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Sorry?

AN HON. MEMBER: May I have a loan of the red sweater?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, I guess you can have a loan of anything I have for the next election, I say to the Minister of Education. I say now that perhaps there is a fair chance that the Minister of Education and myself will be going around in the middle of the next election campaign with that bumper sticker on: `Retired'. That is what all the people up in his district think anyway, because they are calling me now and asking: Where does Chris have his house bought in St. John's? It is a sure sign he is not coming back.

Of course, he has told them he is not coming back. He has told them up there. `If you want anything done now,' he says, `you had better give me the word quick, and don't open your mouth against me or you will get nothing.' That is what he has told them up there.

MR. DECKER: There is a lot of pressure on me now not to retire, you know.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I know. I talk to them almost every second day, those people who are really afraid that you are going to retire. There are about twelve of them in your district that call me every second day and send me faxes. Their biggest concern they said is: `When the House of Assembly opens, please ask Chris not to resign.' The first question they want asked is about the Minister of Education. The people from up in his district want me to plead with him and say: `Please, minister, please, don't resign.'

MR. SIMMS: No, it is not, now, you are leading him on now, `Bill'. Tell him the truth.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: He knows what is happening up there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, I say to the Minister of Justice. We don't want him to resign. We have to have somebody left out of the front four. We need somebody left there.

MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible).

MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible) stay down in the engine room with you!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: We need at least one of the front four here in the middle left - at least one. There are a couple of them on pretty shaky ground over there now, I say to the front four. Pretty shaky ground.

MR. ROBERTS: `Bill', I will give you a call about it.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: You will give me a call about it? If you are going to call me about it now make sure you call me from the city. Then you won't have to call long distance, I say to the Minister of Justice.

MR. ROBERTS: Exactly, that is why I said I said I would call you.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I know why you said it.

MR. DECKER: I am going to give him back his seat.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Sorry?

MR. DECKER: He can have his seat back.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Give him his seat back. Don't give him your card, too, then. I must say, the Minister of Justice looked pretty shaky on television last night, looked pretty sheepish, didn't he?

MR. ROBERTS: That's right - head down.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes. You can always tell - a guy looking at his boots. You can tell when his pride has been hurt.

MR. TOBIN: Looking at his new suit.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, that was an interesting comparison, I say to the Member for Burin - Placentia West. He said - you all watched the news last night, I suppose. He said: Did you see the Minister of Justice on last night? Did you see where he announced he resigned in 1985? I said: `Yes, I saw that, where he is down in the engine room and whatever he was going to be doing, I don't know, oiler or whatever it is. Then they put him on right after and the Member for Burin - Peninsula West said: My god, he was wearing the same suit!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I said, it was only 1985! That is what he said.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible) less kind things than that about my suits.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, I'm just telling you a story that, you know, as we were talking about the news today. It was only meant in jest. We understood -

MR. ROBERTS: How do you know it's not true?

AN HON. MEMBER: It is!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: We believe it is true! We believe that it is true, I say to the minister. But how you spent that much time in the engine room and still could wear your suit on television last night is the big question. You must have had some good coveralls.

MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible) to change his tie and keep the same suit. That's what `Ed' did.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I'm beginning to wonder now - I say with respect to the Member for Burin - Placentia West and the Minister of Justice - I'm wondering who is supposed to have the floor. It is getting rather difficult. Because I've only been a short time yet. I have about two more hours, I believe.

MR. ROBERTS: You are being harassed, are you?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I am being harassed, I say to the minister. But I was saying at the time - when I pleaded with the Minister of Education not to resign, then I said that we need at least one person left from the front four. I know the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology missed that, Mr. Speaker, and that is why I wanted to repeat it, because I knew he was looking at me kind of curiously.

I said, the Minister of Education - I pleaded with him not to resign, to stay on, because, I said, we need at least one person left from the front four. I said, `There are a couple real shaky there now, but I want him to be there. At least we can move him up and move two or three in with him to try to keep her going over there for another couple of years.

The Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology - that is what I was talking about before he came in. I knew that he would be most interested in hearing that, not suggesting now that with this lack of confidence in the government, and things that are happening, that in any way the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology might be one of those that might be shaky over there. I wasn't suggesting that, I say to the minister. I wasn't suggesting any of that, not at all. I was just talking about lack of confidence in the government, and what is happening out and about Newfoundland.

Now, the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology can't identify with that too much, of course, because he is just back from Switzerland, I believe he told me. I don't know if he was in Austria or not. He was in Austria?

MR. FUREY: Yes, I will yodel for you.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Is that right? Good. I have a yodelling tape I could loan the minister for the next time he goes back. He could do a little practising.

MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible) yodel.

MR. MURPHY: Who is it, `Jim Morgan'?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Voices in the Wind.

Where else were you, by the way, Minister?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Just those three countries?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Two. I understand the minister was trying to attract business or something - something for the Northern Peninsula, perhaps?

MR. FUREY: Maybe.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Maybe.

What I am saying is that you wouldn't know what is going out and about the Province because you're not here that much. You wouldn't know that there is such an overwhelming lack of confidence in the government that has occurred in the Province the last while because you have been so busy travelling about.

MR. FUREY: Only one week.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, far more than one week. Well, I tell you, there has been a dramatic dip, I say to the minister, in the last week. Really, there have been some tremendous happenings out and about there. The minister knows.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, and I am sure he is going to hear more, I say to the minister, of the happenings out and about here, he is going to hear more.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, I don't know. I wouldn't say that, now, about the minister.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) poll, `Chuck'.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Poll! I say to the Member for Fogo, I remember those days when we boasted about polls, and I remember the days when we dreaded polls, and I say to the Member for Fogo, you are getting into an area now where you are starting to dread them. You are starting to dread them, I say to the Member for Fogo, and the dread will get worse.

The old Mad Hatter over there - now there is a man who knows a lot about polls.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Please do that. Please do it, I say to the member. I have seen polls over the last three weeks, myself; I have been involved in them myself actually, I say to the member, and I know what is happening in public opinion in the Province, as much as anybody here - very recent polling, I say, not quarterly polling, recent polling - and if ever there was a shift, I say to the defender of the health care system; he should not be surprised why there is such a dramatic shift, the old Mad Hatter over there, the Minister of Health. He is part of the problem, why there is no confidence in the government, why day by day the confidence in this government erodes. Visit the hospitals, I say to the Minister of Health, like I have been doing the last three weeks. Go down and about down there.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, another smart alec remark, I say to the minister. Yes, perhaps I should be down there. Yes, they should be taking out my gall bladder, I say to the minister.

MR. ROBERTS: The hon. gentleman doesn't lack for gall.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, and I guarantee you something - now listen who said that, I say to the Minister of Justice. Who said that - an hon. member doesn't lack gall? Can you believe it? Can you believe who would say that?

I want to say to the Minister of Health, on a serious note, that we have some very serious problems in our health care system out there, you know. If you go in and out some of the hospitals in this Province on a regular basis, which I have had occasion to do the last three weeks or so - not because I wanted to go but because I felt obligated to go - I'll tell you something: it ain't the best of situations, and that is no reflection on those who are working there, either. Some of these people are worked to a frazzle, I say to the minister. I am sure he recognizes that, and if we get an exodus now out of the health care system because of these suggested harsh measures that are coming in the new budget, it is going to make it even worst.

The Member for Ferryland alluded to a case today where this gentleman went down and wasn't diagnosed for whatever reason. There are some very serious situations, we all know about them, we all have constituents who are in hospital on occasions that we go visit or we have relatives that we go visit on a regular basis. It is a pretty serious situation and it is one of the reasons why the confidence in this government is dwindling, particularly for a Premier and a government who promised better health care, who promised that more hospital beds would be opened in this Province. These are the kinds of things that are happening, Mr. Speaker. There is no confidence whatsoever in this government out and about this Province.

Public servants? You say, well so what? They are taking their living from the public purse but there are several thousand of them in this Province who have no confidence in this government, who have no trust in this government. Any person now who is receiving unemployment insurance in this Province has lost complete trust in this government because of what this Premier and this government proposed in the Income Supplementation Program. Every person in this Province who is receiving income on the Fisheries Compensation Package have lost confidence in this government because this government proposed that they be wiped out.

Now, Mr. Speaker, when you put all of that together, you have a lot of people in this Province who have lost total confidence in this government. Yes, you may slough-off the result in Placentia as being for whatever reason but the weakest slough-off I heard, Mr. Speaker, was the one of the Premier, who said it was because of a sympathy vote. It had nothing to do with him of course, it had nothing to do with the antics of the former minister, it had nothing to do with income support, the proposals that this administration wanted implemented by the Government of Canada. Mr. Speaker, that is what the Placentia vote was all about. It was about all of those things.

In Placentia you have a situation where you have all walks of life the same as we have in any district in this Province. We have public servants, educators, health care workers, transportation workers, fishermen, former fishermen and fisherpersons that were all, in some way, affected by the measures that this government was proposing and would have been affected far more seriously if the federal government would have done what they asked them to do, and that is a lot of people.

So I say to the Member for Fogo that you can talk about polls all you like but Placentia was a poll. Placentia was the electorate speaking in a certain situation. Polls are a snapshot of the day, of the hour, they change as we all know but there is a very strong message in what came out of Placentia. If I were in the government today I would listen to that message because as we know and you know, it is a very powerful tide to fight when every fifteen or twenty seconds you listen to your radio station and someone is talking of the advantages of being on the government side. It is a very powerful message, it is hard to fight it. We used it when we were the government and we used it very effectively, the same as the government of the day. It is very hard to fight but in Placentia, just a few months after a general election, the people were not willing to be any part of this government. That is what the people of Placentia said. It was a total vote of non-confidence in this administration.

Mr. Speaker, there will be more by-elections between now and the next general election in this Province, there is no doubt about that. We average four or five a term, I guess, if you look back over any number of years. It averages at least one a year, I say to the Member for Fogo. There will be by-elections. There will be other signals come from those by-elections.

MR. CRANE: You are not giving up though, are you?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I'm not talking about myself, I say to the Member for Harbour Grace.

MR. CRANE: That is the main thing (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, no. They will have to carry me out of here, boy.

MR. CRANE: I don't want to see you go.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I will be here a long time, I say to the Member for Harbour Grace. Because my ambition and aim right now, Mr. Speaker, my ambition, and, right now, desire -

MR. CRANE: Is to be leader.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: - is to - no, it is not to be leader. I say to the Member for Harbour Grace, who would want to be leader?

MR. CRANE: Of the PC Party I don't know.

AN HON. MEMBER: The Member for Ferryland wants to be leader.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No. I want to be in a position of influence, I say to the Member for Harbour Grace. To make things better in this Province. To get rid of this uncaring government that is here. A government that in five short years has lost touch with the people. Become arrogant in five years. Think you are going to be around forever. That is the first mistake. Because we all know once the electorate makes up their mind, it doesn't make any difference of how good a member you've all individually been, that you are going with the sweep. It is hard to hold on when that tide strikes, as we saw federally. Some very good people lost and went with the tide.

That is what you are facing there in five short years. That is how bad the confidence of the people has been shaken in this Administration, I say to the Minister of Environment and Lands. They've lost total confidence in this Administration.

MS. COWAN: I was just going to complement you. I was going to say, you are an example of someone who (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: What can I say? With all of the government side propaganda and the obvious interest in the candidate against me in the District of Grand Bank, and the whisper campaigns of the great future, it didn't make any difference in the final analysis.

MR. MURPHY: You were nervous, (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, I would say to the Member for St. John's South. It is my second largest majority, I would say to him.

AN HON. MEMBER: But you were nervous.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I've never been nervous. Never been nervous about that.

MR. TOBIN: Not a bit nervous, and we spent the day together, didn't we, buddy?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes. Up in Tobin's cabin. We spent the day together up in Tobin's cabin.

MS. COWAN: I think when you were fresh back here though after the last election Hansard will show that you (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, I didn't say that. I've never met a woman yet who made me nervous, I say to the Minister of Environment and Lands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. ROBERTS: That one will cost you badly.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: That one will cost me? You are not going to tell the wife Ed, are you?

MR. ROBERTS: A copy of the Hansard will be delivered to your House (inaudible).

MR. TOBIN: Ed, I will take it.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: It is hard to fight the government line. The Member for Burin - Placentia West is threatening me. He is going to deliver a copy to my wife. Then we had better all be careful about that. I will get the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation -

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: What would the Minister of Health like to know, I wonder? Would he like to hear of the overwhelming confidence of the people of the Province and the health care workers in particular, the confidence that they have in the minister, would he like to hear a few stories about that? About how their worst dread, how they dread the day when the Premier shuffles the Cabinet, and shuffles him out? They don't want it to happen, Mr. Speaker. They have so much confidence in the Minister of health.

That is a by-election I wouldn't mind seeing called before 6:00 this evening. By-election in St. John's Centre. My MHA, my member, I say.

DR. KITCHEN: Thanks for your vote.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, no problem. I made sure election day that I voted for myself and then I came in and voted for the minister. I voted twice. I couldn't go to sleep that night not knowing I didn't vote for him.

AN HON. MEMBER: Thank your seat mate too.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Which one?

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The Member for Ferryland? He didn't vote for you too, did he? If that is the case we might have cause here to have it overturned, I say.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: That is three of us here voted for you. The way we looked at it -

MR. TOBIN: Rick lives in the district.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Rick, yes. The Member for Humber Valley is in your district too. We couldn't vote, you see. We waited till about 7:55 p.m. on polling day -

DR. KITCHEN: I had better be nice to them.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes. We waited till 7:55 p.m. on polling day. We said: We've had a good campaign and we've closed the gap, and we've done well, much better than people thought. But it looks like we are not going to quite make it to form the government. The best thing the four of us can do now is go down and vote for Dr. Kitchen. Because there would be no doubt about the next general election, if we can get him re-elected and back in Health, there will be no doubt that the next time we will sweep the government out, so you can't always go thinking about the moment, I say to the Minister of Health; you have to think about the future, you have to plan for the future.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, it is working so far, I say to the Minister of Environment and Lands; it is working so far because the confidence in this government has been eroded so much and so drastically. Members know it, that is why the Premier talked for months about a shuffle. Just before he left to go to Asia I remember they interviewed him at the airport I think it was and he said: Well, I wouldn't be surprised if I thought about it while I was away. But of course he met with so many business people while he was away, as he told the press when he came back, that we can understand why the Premier didn't have time to think about the shuffle.

He had such a long list that he released to the media and the people of the Province with the business contacts he met in Asia, that we know he could not think about a Cabinet shuffle, and do you know the real reason, Mr. Speaker, do you know the real reason, Mr. Speaker? The Premier now, in the position which he finds himself, and with the drastic slide in public opinion and confidence in his government, he has himself in a box. He cannot make the changes he wants to make over there because the last thing he wants now is, two, three or four of them bolting, saying: I am leaving Premier, if you are going to sack me, I am leaving - because he can't face another three, four or five by-election, Mr. Speaker. By-elections, he can't face them, he knows what the results are going to be now; all you would need is another seven or eight by-elections and we would have to go down to the Lieutenant-Governor and say we have more than they have, Sir, send us over.

MR. SIMMS: And then the couple who wants to come over

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Every day my phone is ringing from certain people who want to come over because they say: We are a short-lived bunch -

AN HON. MEMBER: Name them.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, I am not going to that; I am not like that I say to the Minister of Health, I am not like that. When I talk to someone in confidence, I never name them.

MR. SIMMS: The Minister of Finance is one.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The Minister of Health? My God, we had to boot him out of the party, why would we want him back? We booted him out of the party why would we want him back? Oh the Minister of Finance, we could never have anything to do with him now, the Minister of Finance. I would say the Minister of Finance, there probably would be a by-election in Gander for another reason, I would think, if he gets the public service roiled up anymore.

AN HON. MEMBER: What are they going to do?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: God knows, with the stories I am hearing, God knows. They are getting pretty worked up out there I say to the Member for Fogo; we are getting an awful lot of phone calls and faxes coming in.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh God no, I say to the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. I always talk them down when they talk that way, I tell them they had to be responsible; it is tough times. What do you really think, what options this government has, I tell them. Relax, don't go getting up tight with the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation because your road is not ploughed, don't get upset with him, that is what I tell them; what do you expect this poor government to do? They are getting lots of help now from Ottawa, Ottawa is helping them out a lot; no freeze on transfer payments now, they have all their buddies in Ottawa; they can't blame it on the feds so it must only be one big problem, it must be this Administration itself that is a dead failure, an outright failure to the people of this Province, I say to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, that is what they have become over there, a big failure.

MR. EFFORD: I say we are going to Bobbitize you.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I don't care what you do to me, Bobbitize me. Well, Bobbitize? I don't know what reference that is to, Mr. Speaker, Bobbitize me, but I suppose if I had a little bit of imagination I could think about what it meant. I suppose I could be forced to think what the minister meant, Bobbitize me, but I am not going to get drawn into that one because the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation knows, Mr. Speaker, he did it to me one time before, when we had this, what's your hand doing in your pocket bit, and who came out of it the worse but me, not realizing at the time that they were taping me live off this, and what did I hear on my way home? I said: Oh my God, I hope they don't listen to CBC Radio down on the Burin Peninsula, because I really got caught, so I am not getting into the Bobbitizing bit, no.

MS. VERGE: There is a little, old woman in Pasadena who wants to take a gun to the minister.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, really? A little, old woman in Pasadena upset with him?

MS. VERGE: Yes.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes.

MS. VERGE: Lots of younger women (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes? She told you? Well, that is what I am saying, see. Anything can happen. That is what I was saying about the Minister of Finance, and the Member for Fogo - see, the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, the people are threatening him, and want to shoot him. Now can you imagine the person they are going to blame, like the President of Treasury Board, the Minister of Finance and the Premier, given another month or so, what are they going to want to do with them.

MR. TOBIN: The Member for Harbour Grace.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, the Member for Harbour Grace, no, he is not part of any of this, Sir. That is one thing I know.

MR. TOBIN: He is not?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, he is not that kind of man, Sir. No, he is not that kind of man, but the thing is, they are overpowered over there, you see. They are overpowered; they are not allowed to think for themselves. They are not allowed to speak.

MR. MURPHY: Now, now.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, I say to the Member for St. John's South, I look forward to you, over the next number of weeks, on the Hydro privatization, education reforms -

MR. MURPHY: I started it all three years ago.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, yes, and you know why you started it all? You were told to start it all.

MR. MURPHY: No, Sir.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: You were told to start it all, and he is up there now on that eighth floor, and he would do anything now to swear that oath, Mr. Speaker. You go down to the Lieutenant-Governor and talk about those insurrections, seditious plots, that you have to take that great oath that he will not participate in seditious plots, and intestine insurrections. The Member for St. John's South is up there now, I have heard, rehearsing it.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The Member for Fogo? He is not practising the oath, I will tell you that.

AN HON. MEMBER: What is that?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I am just saying that the Member for St. John's South is rehearsing his oath to be sworn into Cabinet, and the Member for Humber East said - and I said, no, there is no way you are, because you know it's a complete waste of time.

MR. TOBIN: Bill, did you hear how Graham said his when he got sworn in?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I what?

MR. TOBIN: How Graham swore his oath.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, I didn't, but that is what is happening over there, one foot in the door now, the Member for St. John's South, and he is petrified they are not going to drag the other one in over the threshold for him - petrified.

MR. TOBIN: Graham said, I will reveal all the secrets.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: He took an oath that he would reveal all secrets? Well, somebody should get to talk to the man.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I know, boy. No, it is not you. You're not the one giving the leaks, I say to the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. You're not the one who is providing the leaks. You took your oath seriously, something like I did when I took it. I took it very seriously. I haven't told a secret since, but there are those over there who took the oath who - I don't know about them. I don't care if some of them don't get expelled for being spies or something. There's a lot of that going on in the world these days.

AN HON. MEMBER: You mean the power struggle.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: There's a power struggle over there, all kinds of happenings.

MR. TOBIN: Leadership on the go.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, leadership aspirations and campaigns going on over there.

AN HON. MEMBER: I don't believe that.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, there are, very serious ones, too; I know. Then we have the conniving and the lobbying for Cabinet. It is amazing what is happening.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, always.

MR. MURPHY: The Member for Grand Bank is not as good as he was last year.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, of course not, I am a year older.

AN HON. MEMBER: You are aging rapidly.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, rapidly, slowing down, losing my exuberance; but the two problems over there, you see, you talk about the Province -

MR. TOBIN: When Bill came in here he had long hair and a beard. That is how long he is in here.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: That is right. They say some things are for the better.

AN HON. MEMBER: It is serious.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, it is. It is hard to keep your train of thought when you are continuously being interrupted, Mr. Speaker, by the Member for Burin - Placentia West and by the Government House Leader.

MR. ROBERTS: I really doubt if you ever had a train of thought.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I do. There are times but I cannot keep it for too long. One of the problems with the government is they have all of those backbenchers who really want to become ministers and then you have four or five ministers who are petrified that they are going to get the boot. Now, that is eight or ten people you have over there that are really in turmoil.

AN HON. MEMBER: A dangerous situation.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I say to the Minister of Environment and Lands that I would do an environmental impact study on the caucus, if I were you, because it has the potential to blow up over there. Then you have three or four of them, Mr. Speaker, in after the Premier's job, so that brings her up to ten, twelve, or thirteen. You have a third of the caucus, Mr. Speaker. I can understand why the Premier is not well.

MR. TOBIN: Then you have Danny.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Then there is Danny Dumaresque. The Member for Burin - Placentia West makes a very good point. Put Danny Dumaresque in amongst all that, Mr. Speaker, and I am surprised that the Premier does not have pneumonia, I tell you that.

MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, naming the member, that is shocking.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I am sorry, the Member for Eagle River. I apologize, Mr. Speaker. Now, that is what is happening over there. What a mess over there, Mr. Speaker. All of that then with the terrible policies they are trying to push down the throats of the people and with their own internal problems is there any wonder why this Province is going nowhere with this Administration, with this dictatorial attitude? This dictatorial attitude that is not listening and members that are muzzled. We will watch very carefully over the next few weeks, Mr. Speaker, when those major, significant, substantial pieces of legislation come before this House for debate. We will be watching very closely to see where members stand, what they say, and what they support. There are some big decisions to be made here over the next couple of months, big decisions, and serious implications for not only Newfoundlanders and Labradorians of the day but future generations of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Decisions we are going to make here sometime between now and I would say the last of August. We might clue it up by Labour Day. That is if we have a real reason to have a Labour Day in this Province this year, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know if we will have a purpose and a reason to do it because this Premier is intent on breaking the backs of the union movement in this Province. He is intent on breaking their backs, Mr. Speaker, and everything that those unions have negotiated over the past twenty years. I hope members have seen what is on the table, particularly with NAPE, I hope you have seen it because there is not one benefit that has been negotiated in the last twenty years that is not under attack by this Premier and this Minister of Finance. There is not one item that has been negotiated for the past twenty years that is not under attack by this Administration. Now, that is pretty serious stuff.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Sorry! I do not know what you said - never went out on the street? I say to the Member for Eagle River, do not jump too quickly. Is this it? Changes to severance pay provisions, changes to Workers' Compensation benefits, changes to sick leave provisions, restructuring initiatives in certain sectors - now that is a beaut - reduction in employer contributions to pension plans. Those are only some of the things they have there now.

What do you all think about that sick leave tampering? What do you think about that? What do you honestly think about the threat to do away with severance pay provisions? Are you all in favour of that over there?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The Member for Eagle River is in favour of it he says.

MR. TOBIN: I am not then.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Changes to Workers' Compensation benefits, another reduction, how many people are in favour of that? A reduction in employer contribution to the pension plans for the second year in a row, I suppose we all agree with that? That is going to be a big help to the pension plans.

AN HON. MEMBER: Two out of three (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Two out of three?

No, I say to the Member for Eagle River, it is people like you that really worry me.

MR. DUMARESQUE: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: People like you worry me because like the Premier, you see, there are too many double standards and that's the problem with this Administration and this government. There are too many double standards. It is alright to slash, to cut and to pull another needleful of blood out of somebody else. That's the problem, no consideration for anyone else. Let's wipe out the severance pay. Yes, that is a good thing to do. It should be done anyway. Throw out all this sick leave, let's reduce that. We can't have them building up all that sick leave. Give them five days then after that knock them back to 75 per cent. Yes, let's do that. That is what's going on over there. No planning, no thought, Mr. Speaker, into anything. Then they go and slap it down on the table to the unions and expect them to lap it up and say: yes, government we will go along with that. We have only been twenty years negotiating those benefits. You take it, no problem. Why? Because one Clyde K. Wells thinks we should have it cut, that is the problem. The rest of them over there then: yes, Premier, and bow and nod their heads. Most of them don't say anything they just nod in agreement.

MS. VERGE: Sure he's going to be gone in a couple of years anyway.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, he won't be there to take the brunt of it, the Member for Humber East is right. He will do all of this and then he will run away with his tail between his legs.

MS. VERGE: With his Fortis buddies.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Run away with his tail between his legs, that is what he'll do. The rest of them over there then will think that they will be able to say: sure we didn't do that, that was Clyde. Clyde did that, we didn't do that. That is what they think they'll be able to do. They're over there now and they'll stand in their places, they'll support it and vote for it but it will be too late then because you'll all be tarnished with it. I say to the Member for Fortune - Hermitage, you don't seem like you're too happy with what I am saying. It will be to late then. You won't be able to separate yourself from Clyde Wells then. When you stand here day after day to debate, debate and support him and vote for it, even though it is against the best wishes of the people of your district, it will be too late then.

MR. LANGDON: I have a bad stomach. I am not listening (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well I can understand you have a bad stomach if you are listening to me.

MR. LANGDON: No, you didn't cause that.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, but I'm just saying that I thought you were taking exception to what I was saying about you won't be able to get away from being tarnished with it because you're part and parcel of what's happening now, is my point.

MS. VERGE: He might try to switch back to the PC's though.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: What's that?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: He should take exception to it? Why, because of what I said? Well he should never take exception to the truth, I say to the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture, and you won't be able to separate yourself from the decisions that this government is going to make over the next five or six months with Hydro and with education.

MR. DUMARESQUE: I will be proud to stand here.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: You are not going to be able to say: well, we had no part of that. It is going to be too late. Yes you will be proud to stand there, you're right about that. I don't doubt that, I say to the Member for Eagle River. He probably will be proud to stand there.

MS. VERGE: The last stand of the Liberal Party.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: But you won't be proud to swallow the results when it comes down because you'll then turn on those who did it. That is your personality and your nature. It'll be all someone else's fault then instead of standing in your place now as a member of the caucus and telling them where they are wrong, that is the problem. That is what's happening over there. Stand up and be counted.

Maybe the people of the Province should be told all this, Mr. Speaker. Maybe, Mr. Speaker, the people should be told.

AN HON. MEMBER: You can't say, will you run down and get me some more money for this and money for that.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, you can. Why can't you? You can tell him. I suppose you could give him your bank account, and you got some money in it, you can tell him to go down and get a few dollars for you. You can go down and do that.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, we did it all the time.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, no. That argument doesn't wash any more with the public either. I say to the Member for St. John's South, that argument has worn through, it is worn thin. You can't go blaming it on `you fellows', it is too far back. You fellows, you fellows.

You've ruined the Province. People have no confidence in you, no confidence. You are all going to be turfed out, I say to the Member for St. John's South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: You do, yes, oh yes. Mr. Speaker, I've stood in my place in this House for the last four or five years and I've told them that the direction that they've taken and the fiscal policy that they've adopted for this Province has not worked. Each year the deficit for this Province has gotten bigger. More people unemployed.

MR. MURPHY: The member said the same thing this time last year. We had an election -

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, I say, I know that, I went through all that, I say to the Member for St. John's South.

MR. TOBIN: Only for the NDP he wouldn't even be back.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Well, that could be, I don't know.

MR. TOBIN: Couldn't even get 50 per cent of the vote in your district (inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I don't know. There is another time coming for that.

MR. MURPHY: Only for the Minister of ITT you would have nobody working.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: There is no good talking about that now, we will talk about the future. What is going to happen in the future we will talk about now. Let's talk about the future. Let's talk about the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture, let's talk about his future.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you a fortune-teller?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Fortune-teller. Let's talk about the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology, let's talk about his future. Let's talk about the Government House Leader, let's talk about his future. You want to talk about futures, let's talk about futures, Mr. Speaker, what does it hold.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) trouble again?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, no trouble. Well, I don't know. I will tell you something. If the Government House Leader is not in trouble it will be one of the few times in his life he hasn't been, I say to him.

MR. ROBERTS: The story of my life.

MR. TOBIN: Trouble and conflict.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes. Continuous trouble. Every time he is on the television screen there is more trouble.

MR. ROBERTS: Even my suits are wrong now.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, no, they are just worn out like the minister. I say to the minister, your suits are like you, you are worn out. It's time for a change, a new era.

That is why people in the Province have lost confidence in the government, Mr. Speaker. We have two of them together there, from the 1960s. The 1960s are trying to run this Province in 1994. That is what is wrong with this Province, and we have so many young new members over there with loads of enthusiasm and new ideas, but they are muzzled from expressing them. They are told their place. You got elected and you came in here, now sit in your seat. You did what we wanted you to do, you gave us the government, now sit back, boys, we are going to run her. That is what is going on.

You (inaudible), you won your seat, you gave us thirty-five or thirty-six seats, now be quiet. Then, four years time when I call it again, you go out and run and win again so I can do the same thing for another four years. That is what the problem is over there. Rise up! Get up, speak up for your constituents, whatever, whoever. Don't be muzzled there because you have the Premier there, and the Government House Leader wheels around in his chair and glares at you. You shrink back in your seat, frightened to death. You are even afraid to talk amongst yourselves!

Frightened to death! Have a caucus revolt and get it out of your systems. That is what you need to do over there. Or else you will have the Province on the rocks. There will be no future for anybody if you don't rise up and get rid of the top honchos over there. Boot them out! I will tell you something, you are hearing it out in your districts. You are getting it in your districts. It is time for Wells to get rid of some of that deadwood he has in there. Get rid of them. Get rid of the deadwood. That is what they are saying out in your districts. They are telling you. There has to be a big shake-up in there, they are saying. You all hear it. How come you're not in there, Gerald? How come you're not in there, Lloyd?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Danny, we know you will never get in there. That's what this crowd tells them. What about you, Tom? You promised us the last election that you were going to be in there, but you only got one foot in there yet. What happened, Tom? The Member for Fogo, self-appointed Minister of Fisheries, and has come in since and slunk down in the seat and said nothing.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I am not, I say to the member. He knows he told them out there: Send me in, boys, and I will be the Minister of Fisheries. That is what is going on over there. What a mess. What a snarl, Mr. Speaker, three or four after the Premier's job, five or six trying to get five or six booted out of Cabinet. My, oh God in heaven. I am telling you, that is what is going on.

The Minister of Education had a delegation in, over in his office. He said: Boys, I will tell you what. When the Premier gets back from Asia, he said the Minister of Fisheries is getting the boot. That is what he told them. A big smirk on his face, and he said: And I will tell you something else, boys, the new Minister of Fisheries will be pretty generous and supportive of the Northern Peninsula.

That is the stuff that is going on over there, and you wonder. There is no confidence amongst yourselves, so how do you expect people to have confidence in the government? That is what is going on, Mr. Speaker. What a going on. What a snarl. It is a worse mess than the economy.

MR. TOBIN: Hitler just came in.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I will tell you something, Mr. Speaker, word is that the caucus over there bought every knife there was in Woolco on sale. There's not one left.

MS. VERGE: Bill, a couple of them got used in Corner Brook in our Winter Carnival.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes. There are rumbles that some of the Woolco knives were used out in the West Coast just a week or so ago, cut right to the bone, sharpened up and drove right in. That is what is happening over there. Self-destruction is -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, it's shocking what's going on over there.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The new minister, another new minister, that corner there, they are going to take over the Cabinet, I will guarantee you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: No, there is going to a big, big shift from that corner, I guarantee you. I cannot wait for it to happen, because that will mean at least five by-elections, another $100,000; another five members.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: What is that?

AN HON. MEMBER: They are just going out to get severance pay, that's all.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, nothing would surprise me, but I don't think - no. That corner there, there are not too many of them have much to gain from severance; one or two of them, but not the majority of them, by far. They don't have much to gain from severance, so that is not their motive. Now their motive might be to get in Cabinet and increase severance pay, but it is not to get it.

I am sorry, what's this - what's the debate on again, Mr. Chairman? What's the debate about? What's the debate now? Severance -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, I am sorry. I thought the minister was saying something about severance when he went to the engine room. No, he didn't get severance when he left the engine room? Did he get severance when he came up out of the engine room? No?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, of course. Well, they know - now the minister has touched another very important point. You have destroyed the hope of all the people out there - people like you. I am serious. You don't believe. You have taken away all their hope.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) taxes on cigarettes.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I am not talking about that. I don't care how much tax you put on cigarettes. I don't smoke.

AN HON. MEMBER: You don't smoke?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I don't smoke.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Sorry?

AN HON. MEMBER: You know what you are saying to (inaudible)

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I don't say anything to my constituents, I don't know any constituents who smoke.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Exactly, we are in a very high tax region and god, if you took a cigarette out of your pocket up my way, I suppose you would be handcuffed immediately. You would be lugged off! I am not a smoker but I'll guarantee you one thing, if I smoked, I would go in the house and lock the door before I took out the pack.

MR. TOBIN: Or had a drink?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Oh, I don't do that anyway, I don't drink - but smoke, seriously, my god, the Gestapo - I used to refer to my friend as `comrade' over there.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Yes, but now, what has he done down there? You can't drive to the supermarket to pick up groceries unless `boo-roo roo' - honest to god, I mean, seriously, the KGB has nothing on it.

MR. TOBIN: Do you pick up groceries often?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: What?

MR. TOBIN: Do you pick up groceries often?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. W. MATTHEWS: I'm telling you boys, you can laugh at it all you like, but I say, the reason that the Burin Peninsula Highway is closed today is, the police cars have it plugged up down there. And, you know, I say to the Minister of Finance -

MR. TOBIN: You should be talking to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The Minister of Finance - yes, you should listen to this, because you have the road plugged up down our way.

MR. EFFORD: What?

MR. W. MATTHEWS: You, you have the road plugged up; yes, you have equipment shifted to other areas of the Province and have us stranded; talk about having confidence!

Now, I just want to touch on this for a minute. Can you imagine the cost to the taxpayers of this Province of this new KGB force that the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Justice have put in place? Do you really think that we are going to be any better off tax-wise because of the measures taken by those two ministers?

MR. ROBERTS: Yes.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: You are. You know that, do you or, are you guessing?

MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: The answer is yes, by how much?

AN HON. MEMBER: Enough.

MR. W. MATTHEWS: Ah. Now, Mr. Speaker, see, `enough', a wild guess. It might be that you are costing the taxpayers more than you are going to save them, I say to the Minister of Justice.

MR. SPEAKER: (Inaudible).

MR. W. MATTHEWS: By leave, Mr. Speaker? I have finished.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Eagle River.

MR. DUMARESQUE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am very happy today to rise in this debate and obviously, Mr. Speaker, I will be speaking against the motion put forward by the Opposition House Leader, because, with a Speech from the Throne that we heard here yesterday, one could do nothing less than support it and pursue the implementation of the complete agenda.

First of all, before I get into the substance of the Throne Speech, Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Member for Torngat Mountains for giving a fantastic speech yesterday, and really enlightening this House, I believe, on some of the issues facing his riding and facing the people of Labrador and obviously the Aboriginal people of this Province. I look forward, as I know many other members over here do, to more speeches of the same nature from the Member for Torngat Mountains. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, it was backed up solidly by the Member for St. John's North in great fashion, accentuating the virtues of this particular speech, so I want to congratulate them for such a fine job.

Now, as I sat there listening to the Lieutenant-Governor reading the Speech from the Throne yesterday, I was wondering which words would capsulize it, which words could characterize the tenor and the substance of that particular Speech from the Throne. There is absolutely no doubt about the conclusion that the general public and all the guests in this House would come to yesterday, that this was a speech characterized by political courage like we have never seen it before in this Province since we were a Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Last May, when we said to the people, `We want a mandate to meet the challenges,' Mr. Speaker, we were sincere. And what we saw yesterday was the most revolutionary plan put before the people to meet the challenges of the day that was ever put forward in a House of Assembly in this Province, bar none. I am quite proud to be here supporting this agenda in education, the agenda of supporting the business community and the privatization initiatives that we have outlined, and obviously, supporting the initiatives we have outlined in fisheries. I will spend a bit of time on each one.

Education cannot be the least of these. It is, indeed, a great pleasure and an honour to be here supporting this government. It is fast becoming the hallmark of this government that we are, indeed, an education government. We are, indeed, a government that is putting children first - the first time it has been done in quite a long time, Mr. Speaker.

We are a government, and I am a member, who sat here a couple of years ago and saw a situation where our most disadvantaged students, the most disadvantaged people in our society, were put on public TV because they said they couldn't find the money and wouldn't find the money - the school boards wouldn't find the money to make sure that our most disadvantaged children had the special support they need. They put them out on the corner so they could display them to the people of this Province. It was agonizing to watch and I am proud to be here to see initiatives taken that will provide the financial resources to see that that never happens again in this Province, that our most disadvantaged students do get that special care, they do get that extra attention, and they do get those resources that are so essential to making sure they are full participants in our society.

We are seeing an education agenda that is touching on every element of education. We are going to approach the administration, cut down on the administration costs, to be able to free up those essential dollars for the things I just noted. The administration and the ending of duplication is a very, very important part of governance of education. We are going to get the curriculum changed in this Province that has not been changed for the last twenty years. And it is so necessary. It is crying out for change, and it is this government that is taking the initiative, taking those reforms that are unsurpassed in recent memory in this Province dealing with education, with curriculum, with the school year, with giving more time to the students and less to the administration. Those are the kinds of changes that the people in this Province voted for. Those are the kinds of changes that the people in this Province support today, and we do not, and we will not, and neither would any member of this government, support a situation where we have a Godless school. That is not what is happening, contrary to what was done in the Placentia by-election when people went out there and misled the people.

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. DUMARESQUE: Absolutely! They said we were going to create a Godless school. That was wrong then, it is wrong now, and it is wrong in the future. It will not happen as long as we occupy this side of the House, Mr. Speaker. We are giving the churches and the people of this Province a greater program for religious education than there was ever in the curriculum and in the school's administration in this Province. That is, indeed, an acknowledged fact for those who want to read the report on reforming and `Adjusting the Course', and for those who want to read and acknowledge the virtues of that particular program.

Then, there is the issue of privatization. Mr. Speaker, I can't believe that members of the Opposition, especially those being so prominent in the Tory philosophy and the great supporters of free enterprise - it is awfully ironic that they would be out there condemning us for taking some initiatives out of the hands of government and putting it in the hands of the private sector. It is something that has to be done and I have every confidence that once this proposal on Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro is told to the people in its every element, that it will be supported by the people, Mr. Speaker. It will be supported by the people and I will do my part, as one member of this caucus, to see that this issue is clarified, that the truth is told to the people and that the facts are put on the table, Mr. Speaker, because this is going to be a good deal for Newfoundland and Labrador. This is going to be a good deal for the taxpayers of this Province and we are going to see our debt relieved, Mr. Speaker, we are going to see our credit rating improved, we are going to see cash put into our current account that we now have to go and borrow for on the backs of our young people and our next generation, that is going to be the positive and telling arguments that will be asked for the people to support. That will be the elements of this proposal that are going to be real.

We are going to give the role of government in this area and not unlike the area of dealing with computers, not unlike the area of dealing with farm products or growing chickens, Mr. Speaker, this is something that government has no business in. We can get out of it and we should get out it, especially at a time when we need to free up every dollar we can to meet the educational requirements, to meet the social services requirements, to meet the health care requirements that we so dearly cherish in this Province and indeed, in this country. We have to take advantage of every opportunity to get every dollar to make sure that when it comes to the care of our elderly, when it comes to the care of our children, when it comes to the education of our next generation who are going to be the leaders who want to stay here and build this Province, that we leave no stone unturned to find that extra dollar. If it means taking one of our assets and going to the people of this Province first and saying invest your money in it because it is a good solid investment, they will do it, Mr. Speaker, they will do it.

The people of Alberta were asked to do it, Mr. Speaker, some time ago with their telephone company and it was a mad rush on opening day and they had to close it off because everyone of those shares were sold to their own people and it will happen here. Our people, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, will buy those shares because they are a good solid investment and they are an investment in our own people, Mr. Speaker. They are going to be heralded as a tremendous buy in this Province and the people out there will look forward to having their share of that particular company as they have done so when it came to our fish company in FPI, when it came to our telephone company, Mr. Speaker, people know that it is there.

I know it hurts the Opposition Party when they go out there and they try to find a parade to lead. On two or three occasions now they've went out there and tried to lead the parade only to come into the wall of truth at some point in time. Then the people turned around and said: you have no business here trying to do this to us because you've misled us. You are going to be accused of exactly the same thing on Hydro as you've done on other issues. Once the truth is out there, once the facts are out there and once people acknowledge the virtues of this deal, you will be turned back as you have been on other issues. You will be told that you have been doing a disservice to the people, that you have been doing a disservice to Her Majesty by doing what you've done on this particular issue, Mr. Speaker. I have every confidence of that and I will be doing my share to try and make sure that we never go to the point of reverting to the mentality of members opposite.

I also see, Mr. Speaker, the initiatives that we've outlined in this Throne Speech with relation to the fishery, the fishery, Mr. Speaker, which is so essential to all of our communities in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I take great pride in seeing the government insist on a joint industry renewal board. That is where it is, Mr. Speaker, and not on the industry renewal board or not in the Atlantic board that Mr. Crosbie recommended but a real industry renewal board where all aspects of the fishery, all aspects of fisheries management are given to that board so they can plan a good orderly fishery for the people of this Province, that all aspects, in quotas, licensing and fish plant processing licenses, all of these things can be given over to that board so they can manage it on a sound, financial basis, but also on a very well co-ordinated basis, and have our people, through this government, have our input in that very essential element of our economy, Mr. Speaker.

I also take note of another significant element of the Throne Speech as it relates to the fishery, and that is the economic restructuring agreement that we want to see put in place, because that is absolutely essential, because what has happened in our fishery over the last number of years, not unlike what has happened, I guess, in the last 400 years, is that the people of this Province always thought there would, forever and a day, be a cod fishery, and we put all of our eggs in the cod basket. It was wrong; it was the wrong strategy.

There's nobody to blame for that because that happened to be the prominent fish that came in, and it was the most abundant, and it was the most lucrative, it was the most easily harvested, and obviously it was in great demand, but what we have to do in this Province is not unlike what is done in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and other provinces, is that we have to diversify. We have to take other species and be able to harvest them and process them onto the secondary and further stages to be able to get that extra value added, but what we need here now is some assistance in being able to get that done, because we have a tremendous turbot resource just outside the 200-mile limit, some inside, but we have not had the experience.

We do not have all of the proper technology right now to be able to get that resource, but let me tell members of this House that 100 million pounds of turbot was taken last year by foreign vessels inside and outside the 200-mile limit - 100 million pounds that is worth between $4,000 and $6,000 a ton, more valuable than shrimp, more valuable, twice as valuable today as cod - 100 million pounds. That fish can be caught by us. It can be processed in our plants. These plants can be changed, but we do have to adjust our harvesting effort. We do have to invest in some new vessels. We have to invest in new harvesting techniques, and we have to adjust our plants to be able to process it, and also to take it beyond the first processing stage, and that is going to need capital.

We need to do that, and I believe that this is where the federal government has the role to play, and it is not good enough to just provide money for income support but not acknowledge that there is opportunity and provide us with a mechanism to achieve that opportunity. We have to do that, and I think that we are well on the way to seeing that, because there are other tremendous underutilized species. The red fish fishery is another one, the crab fishery, the shrimp fishery.

I would like to say to members opposite, do they realize, right now, that we have $140 million shrimp industry off the Coast of Labrador and in the St. Anthony Basin, off the Funk Islands of this Province? Over in Greenland, which is a shot away from Northern Labrador, there is 65,000 metric tons of shrimp being processed every year in eight shrimp processing plants that operate from eight to twelve months each year, north of the sixty, up where the ice is frozen for half the time, and they are over there with hundreds and hundreds of people working in eight processing plants, and we are going to get that processing on the Coast of Labrador.

We are going to get that done here, because we have a situation now where we have a friend in Ottawa. We have a situation now where we have an ally in Ottawa. We have a situation now where we have some political courage in Ottawa, and it should not be lost on the people of this Province that a few short days ago we had the Prime Minister of our country come to the steps of this building and say: I am going to fight for the fishermen and plant workers of this Province, and I will extend custodial management over the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DUMARESQUE: It should not be lost on them, because the last mighty mouse that we had come down here, to the steps of Confederation Building, was John C. Crosbie, and you never heard anything like that from him. He came up and told us how it could not be done. That is the history of the Tory party. They spend all of their time telling you how it cannot be done, how it can never be achieved, how you should ignore reality. The record of the Liberal Party, the record of Brian Tobin and the Fisheries and Oceans Department today, and the Prime Minister's office, is very loud and clear.

I know the Member for Grand Bank couldn't stand it when he had to get on the radio the other day and acknowledge that for the first time in history all twelve NAFO countries are not going to take any cod from the southern Grand Banks for at least a year. When he had to acknowledge that, I knew it was hard. I knew he had to try to find some kind of out. He had to try to find some kind of out because it was the kind of day that he dreaded would ever come. He never had any worries while his friend Crosbie was up there, because he knew the day would never come when he would have to say what a good thing that was.

It was a Liberal, it was our own Newfoundlander Brian Tobin, that took a halt to the cod fishery in 3NO and on the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks. It is not lost on the people of this Province. We are taking very solid, meaningful steps to take control of our fishery and get it back to the people of this Province. The people of this Province have renewed their confidence in us. The people of this Province know who is speaking for them. As I said earlier, to see such a revolutionary agenda not only placed before the people of this Province, not only being cried from the rooftops of this Province, not to see the plan, but we are seeing the actions of a government that is prepared to challenge those problems and challenge them in a fundamental and real way.

That is the hallmark of a real government. That is the hallmark of leadership. That is the hallmark of having a responsible government elected by the people to govern the people of this Province. That is what is going to be remembered, that is the most significant thrust of the Throne Speech that was so well delivered yesterday. I am indeed proud as the Member for Eagle River to stand here in support of this particular Throne Speech. It will not be lost on the people of this Province that this session and this year will be one of the most fundamental in our forty-five years of Confederation.

That is, indeed, the truth, Mr. Speaker, we will see things change in this Province as they have not changed in the last twenty-five years, because in the first twenty or so we did see fundamental change. We saw new dollars come into our Province. We saw schools being built, we saw water and sewer being put in, we saw infrastructure put in and government services provided that we didn't know before. That was done. The roads were put there, the University was put there, the hospitals were put there. That was real fundamental change for twenty years. Then we had a period in the early 1970s when we had a government elected with a deficit of some $300 million to carry with them, and we had them with an unemployment rate of 1 or 2 per cent lower than the national average. And what happened over the next fifteen to seventeen years is not lost on the people of this Province. There was a conscious plan, a conscious philosophy applied to this Province that dragged us down day by day, month by month, year by year, to give us in 1989 the biggest financial crisis that ever faced this Province. But thanks to the electorate, thanks be to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, when they said to the Liberal Party, it is time to come back, it is time to restore order to this government, to this Province, and that is, indeed, why four or five years later they said again, `You done a great job so we are going to send you back for four more years,' and I am confident we will renew it again in four years to come, Mr. Speaker - absolutely!

So, it is indeed a pleasure for me to stand here and support this Throne Speech and to speak against the motion put forward by the Opposition House Leader. I know that the hon. House Leader got carried away that time and said `Carried'. I know he got carried away. He didn't mean to indicate that we should carry -

MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible) a vote of non-confidence (inaudible).

MR. DUMARESQUE: I mean, the nerve, the unmitigated gall of a member of this House to stand up and speak about non-confidence in this government, Mr. Speaker. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked by it. I know that last year they never moved a motion. I couldn't believe how they may have changed in the last six months or so. But I have to speak in opposition to it. I have to speak against that resolution, Mr. Speaker, because if anybody had been listening to the Throne Speech yesterday, if anybody has been really assessing the essence of this Throne Speech, looking at the initiatives that this government is taking, Mr. Speaker - and one that I didn't note, is that we are building this Province on the basis of encouraging private investment, of encouraging the business community. We are going to make revolutionary changes in bringing in a government bill to encourage investment and to encourage small business development. We are going to be putting a commission in place that will review and will take away the unnecessary regulations that are right now inhibiting progress, that are right now stymying investment, that are right now taking away the chance for some growth.

We are not going to get tied up in and carried away with the kinds of regulations, the kind of red tape that was put in place when these members opposite were in government. We are going to take that particular problem as we've taken them all, dealing with the essence of it. And when we come back here after that review, we will have a much more streamlined - I would hope we will have one-stop shopping when it comes to having a business proposal approved, where we will be able to go in and have somebody there who will be able to look at your application and approve it for land use, approve it from an environmental perspective, and approve it without having to go through months and months of red tape, in this government.

That has to come to an end. Because we know, every member in this House would be dishonest to say we didn't know of an example where government red tape has inhibited progress, has stopped somebody from doing what would have created jobs.

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, it would be an understatement to say that I am proud to be here today to support this Throne Speech, to support the tremendous initiatives that have been put forward by a government of courage, a government of vision, and a government that will carry the political will of the people to the floor of this House to make those fundamental changes to make tomorrow better in education, in the fishery, in environment, in health, in social services, in every facet of responsibility that we were given. That will be the record with which we will go back to the people. And I know that the people of Eagle River will again return to this Legislature the kind of commitment that we have and I know that I hold dear to the needs of that community of interest, so with that I ask hon. members on all sides, to neglect that very partisan approach that they have taken in the last few hours, to rise to the challenge again and shoulder the responsibility for building this Province, for changing the course, for putting in place our most fundamental changes that will make for a better day for all of our citizens.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

MR. WOODFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I only have a few minutes before we adjourn the debate for this evening, but I would like to make from the outset a few comments on the Throne Speech itself, especially as it pertains to the previous speaker, the Member for Eagle River, when he talked about mandate in the last provincial election and what it meant for this Administration today.

Mr. Speaker, if anybody could show me in the campaign of May 3, last year's election, anything in the Liberal Campaign Manual that made reference to the denominational system being changed, that made reference to anything to do with health care, anything to do with privatization, not one thing did I see in the last provincial election that alluded to those three areas, and I can name others; but I did not see any of them, none of them.

When you talk about mandate, you go to your electorate and you are talking about generalities, it is one thing to talk about a mandate, another thing to talk about generalities and there is another thing to talk about, specifics. Mr. Speaker, as of April 2, in another couple of months, I will have been in this business for nine years, and I never ever heard so much concern, I have never seen so much hurt, I have never had so many phone calls, I have never had so much constituency work to do as I did in the last year to eighteen months, never!

There is no compassion, that is what is coming back to me. They say they consult, consult with whom? Consult is one thing, listen is another and, Mr. Speaker, I don't have it, if there was an election call in this Province today, I can assure you there would be no mandate for hon. members opposite.

I say to the Member for Eagle River, and a few of the other gentlemen that I know over there, it is great to get up and talk about the Throne Speech, but it is very timely now to see why members would get up and fight, and show that fighting spirit, and show all that support for the leader and for the Administration. There is soon going to be a shuffle, and I say to members opposite, you had better stop spinning, because there is one member over there spinning now, I will tell you that. He is spinning. He has another couple ahead of him, though, and when he gets that call - I remember I came in here in 1985, along with some hon. members opposite, there was one fellow in our office, I guarantee you, I didn't know what was going on then. I didn't know the system. I didn't know what the hell was going on. Everybody was talking about phone calls - going to get this phone call. The only one I was used to getting was one from my constituents. There was one hon. gentleman there who, every time the phone rang, would just knock you down. Get out of his way. Well, I am sure that within the four or five days it took for the Premier to form a Cabinet, that he wore out two pairs of pants, guaranteed.

AN HON. MEMBER: He got the call.

MR. WOODFORD: Eventually he did get the call. Yes, he did. He got the call, but I can assure you there is a lot of stuff going on now. It is going to be very interesting to listen to the speeches.

The hon. Member for Eagle River just sat down. Nowhere in his speech did he mention anything about the change from ten to twelve weeks; never mentioned the Saltfish Corporation, never mentioned that; Newfoundland Hydro and privatization, a few things like that. They get right cosy with the Premier now for the next few days. We will see how it is going to work out for the hon. Member for Eagle River.

That aside, I wish him well. More power to him if he gets the call. I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, there is going to be some vying, and you will see some boots. I tell you, when you see the Premier walking down anywhere now, you will see some boots behind, I guarantee you that, and it will be no trouble to see the taps, I can assure you, over the next short while.

A very interesting non-confidence vote. I used to always hear this, too, over the last number of years, but never before have I seen it, or seen a time where it is more appropriate. This non-confidence vote today, if there was ever a time - take it a little further, take it out of the House of Assembly and challenge the Premier to put it to the electorate. Take it a little further and I'll tell you, if you want to know abut a non-confidence vote! It was only ten months since we had one, but you put it to the people of the Province today, and I guarantee you, we won't get the same results. We won't get the same results at all.

Polls - members talk about polls. I tell you, it won't be the same polls they said they read out here eight or nine months ago. It won't be the same polls at all. Members opposite are getting it. Members on the back benches here and ministers are getting the same types of phone calls I am getting, the same kinds of phone calls we are getting. The hon. member will soon take flight. The hon. the Minister of Forestry is soon going to take flight. He will be gone. He is not worried anymore.

AN HON. MEMBER: And Hulan is drooling.

MR. WOODFORD: Hulan is drooling - yes, that was a good one the other day. The hon. the Minister of Fisheries is soon going to swim and take off. He is gone.

MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible) adjourn the debate.

MR. WOODFORD: Okay, I will adjourn the debate, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TOBIN: He was just getting to you.

MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I deny that the hon. gentleman for Humber Valley was just getting to me, as my friend for Burin - Placentia West advised the House. I look forward to this and when we call the Throne Speech again, I await it.

If the House would permit, Mr. Speaker - we are at 4:59 and counting - let me take a moment to outline the business that we plan to ask the House to deal with during the rest of the week. I have had a word with my friend for Grand Bank, but for the benefit of other members, tomorrow is Private Members' Day and there is a motion in the name of the gentleman for Kilbride, if memory serves me correctly; that will be dealt with, debated, and voted upon. On Thursday, we plan to call the Electrical Power Control Act. The bill was distributed in the House today, and it is in the Premier's name, he will introduce it. I have assured my hon. friend opposite that we will ask the House to sit beyond the 5:00 o'clock adjournment on Thursday, bearing in mind that there is a Late Show on Thursday which may come in as well, to ensure that a representative of the Opposition has an opportunity to speak to the debate on Thursday. My understanding is that both the Premier and whoever speaks in response, be it the Opposition Leader or some other member, is entitled to an hour, so we will ask the House to sit late should that be necessary, to make sure that each side has an opportunity to express a view on this bill.

The Privatization Act, Mr. Speaker, I anticipate will be distributed here in the House tomorrow. It is at the printers and I say to hon. gentleman and ladies opposite that they may be disappointed because apparently they think they have copies of it; well, it is at the printers now, so whatever they have, isn't the bill itself. They may be drafts, or who knows - they may find it very drafty, indeed.

We propose to ask the House to begin the second reading debate on that bill, Mr. Speaker, on Friday morning. Again, we shall propose the same arrangement to the House. The Premier will speak to introduce the bill at second reading, and if it is necessary in order to accommodate a spokesperson for the Opposition, we will again ask the House to sit later than noon. Other than that, we have no plans to ask the House to sit later on that occasion.

AN HON. MEMBER: Saturday?

MR. ROBERTS: If the hon. gentleman would like to be here on Saturday, that's fine. I plan to be in Happy Valley - Goose Bay myself, but he is welcome to be here.

Mr. Speaker, with that said, I move that the House at its rising do adjourn until tomorrow, Wednesday, at 2:00 p.m. and that the House do now adjourn.

MR. SPEAKER: We are past 5:00 p.m. Normally, we would have to return at 7:00 p.m. I take it - it has to be unanimous - that we agree to adjourn until tomorrow.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, at 2:00 p.m.