The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Before I call the routine proceedings, I want to inform the House that it is with regret that I acknowledge that I have received a letter from Mr. Douglas Oldford, informing me of his resignation as Member of the House of Assembly for the District of Trinity North, and Deputy Speaker of the House of Assembly, effective today, March 28, 2000.

In his letter of resignation, Mr. Oldford cited medical reasons for his decision to resign as the Member of the House of Assembly. He has also asked me to convey his best wishes to all his colleagues here in the House of Assembly.

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, it is with regret that I have been informed today that the House will lose its Deputy Speaker, a senior member who has served this Province well for more than nine years. Doug Oldford, a respected colleague of all members of this House - that respect in evidence by virtue of his discharge of his responsibilities as Deputy Speaker - has informed me that due to medical reasons he can no longer carry on his service to the people of Trinity North in this House.

Over the last decade, Doug Oldford has worked tirelessly for the people of his district and indeed for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. He was first elected in a by-election in 1991. He was successfully re-elected in 1993, 1996, and again a year ago in 1999. He served in the positions of Chairman of committees and as Deputy Speaker of the House of Assembly. Doug has been a conscientious, tireless representative on behalf of the people of his district. He is known as a fighter for social justice, well-known for the special emphasis he placed on the most disadvantaged amongst us in this society.

Mr. Speaker, I recall very well in the early days of the cod moratorium, when I was Minister of Fisheries and Oceans in Ottawa, the many representations that Doug Oldford made on behalf of those who were affected by that terrible disaster.

Mr. Speaker, among his numerous accomplishments for the District of Trinity North are the new Middle School in Clarenville, the re-development and ambulatory care project at the Dr. G.B. Cross Memorial Hospital in Clarenville. In fact, I think it is fair to say and it should be said that Doug was very instrumental in last week's Budget's announcement of a kidney dialysis machine for the region.

I would like to commend Doug, and all of us as well, for his valuable contribution to tourism growth and to the development of the Trinity area.

Prior to his election, Doug worked as a bank manager. He was a vocational school instructor, and was an apprenticeship officer with the Department of Labour.

Mr. Speaker, the District of Trinity North has been accustomed to conscientious service by their member. It is for that reason that I made a commitment to Doug, as recently as this morning when I talked to him, several hours ago, to call a by-election as soon as possible so that the service to the people of Trinity North would be as little interrupted as possible. Therefore, I am today calling a by-election in the District of Trinity North for Tuesday, April 25, 2000.

Mr. Speaker, Doug has had some health challenges in recent months. I think many members of the House, on both sides of the House, have been aware of that. The record should show, because it is true, that Doug has been encouraged by colleagues on both sides of the House to take the time necessary to restore his health. I think it is fair to say that members on both sides would have encouraged that, members on both sides would have supported that and would have understood that. Indeed, that is a tradition in this House - one of the better traditions of this House - the way in which the House, in a non-partisan way, closes ranks around those who require the support of their colleagues, and that has often been demonstrated on both sides of this House.

Both he and his family have come to the conclusion at this time that his first priority is to restore his health and then to ensure that he carries on his obligations to his family. All of us here understand that, and all of us here support that.

I know I speak for all members when I say to Doug that we thank him for his contribution to this place. We thank him for the good humor and the good judgement and the good fellowship he brought to his role as Deputy Speaker. Every one of us wishes him nothing more than that most precious and important gift of all, and that is the gift of good health. May it be restored to him soon, and we wish he and his family the very best in their retirement years.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me first of all offer to Mr. Oldford and his family our best wishes on this side of the House. I had a good personal relationship with Mr. Oldford. In my former capacity as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee - Mr. Oldford was a member of that Committee - I got to know him very well.

In this place, which is a partisan place, it can be said, I think, with certainty, that Mr. Oldford, while carrying out those duties, was many times a member among members, and in some ways the least partisan; and he upheld, I think, in many ways and in a number of circumstances, the parliamentary tradition that would be afforded to some people as statesmanlike, if I could use that term. Doug certainly had that respect, I know, from this side of the House.

I can only say to his family that - first of all, to reiterate what the Premier has indicated in terms of the support that would have been there for Mr. Oldford had he decided to take some time away from his elected duties because of personal health reasons, that certainly on many occasions in this House, when personal circumstances have dictated a member's response to a very personal situation, I think it is one of the hallmarks of people who sit in this House that all members, irrespective of political stripe, have rallied to support.

I want to ensure publicly that people understand that we would have, in every way, shape and form, afforded Mr. Oldford that opportunity should he had chosen to do so, but he has not. I can only say on behalf of the Official Opposition that we wish both his family and, more importantly, Mr. Oldford well. I know the medical reasons he has cited are serious. I spoke to him several weeks ago and it was very clear that he was having some difficulty.

I will pass on my own personal message to Mr. Oldford some time later today. Once again, we wish him well and hopefully, please God, the measure that he is taking today will alleviate some stress and put him back on the road to good health.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is with great regret that I learned today that Mr. Oldford's health was such that he felt that it required him to resign his position as a member of this House, as the Member for Trinity North. I too have known Mr. Oldford since he has been here. He was a real gentleman and a gentle man who served conscientiously, with humor and partisanship, in this House. I served with him on committees and he certainly was there with the cut and thrust of any member in terms of handling the responsibilities on those committees, and was conscientious in this House and to his constituents.

It is with regret I say, Mr. Speaker, when someone's health is such that his first priority has to be looking after that responsibility and that of his family. It is with regret that he is unable to serve in this House. I want to join in wishing him improved health, and wishing him and his family continued recovery and, hopefully, happier circumstances.

I would join as well with the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition and say that members of this House recognize that personal circumstances or health may cause them to be unable to preform all of their duties from time to time. That is understood and accepted, and it is never to my knowledge taken advantage of in a partisan way.

I do respect the opinion and the decision of the Member for Trinity North, Mr. Oldford. He is the one who has to determine what his priorities are. I respect his decision and wish him and his family well in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: May I just conclude by moving that the Speaker, on behalf of all Members of the House of Assembly, write to Doug Oldford, to his wife Judy and to his family, to express our appreciation for his service as a member of this House, but more importantly for his service as our Deputy Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour of that motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye!

MR. SPEAKER: Carried.

Before we call the routine proceedings I would like to welcome to the gallery today twenty-one grade IX Social Studies students from Whitbourne High in Whitbourne, in the District of Harbour Main-Whitbourne, accompanied by their teacher, Mr. Shawn Rowe, and chaperones Mrs. Louise Drover and Ms Cathy Lynch.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber East.

MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Over a ten day period, starting on April 5 and ending on April 14, the Corner Brook and Pasadena Ministerial Associations will sponsor a complete reading of the Bible. This reading, known as Proclamation, will take place at St. Mary the Virgin Anglican Church in Corner Brook. First started in the spring of 1995 at Rosemary, Quebec, the Proclamation on the leadership of the Canadian Bible Society has spread throughout Canada. Last year it was held in fifteen locations including a first time reading in Newfoundland and Labrador at the St. John's West End Baptist Church. The Corner Brook-Bay of Islands-Humber Valley Proclamation will consist of 1,310 individual readings and will involve over 500 readers from thirty-five different churches.

While English will be the dominant language used, readings will be done in Hebrew, Greek, Portugese, German and French as well as by individuals using Braille. I ask this hon. House to join with me in extending congratulations to the Canadian Bible Society and the Corner Brook and Pasadena Ministerial Associations in bringing this worthwhile Christian project to Western Newfoundland.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to inform members of the House of a very exciting event that took place in Labrador West this past weekend. The Menihek Nordic X-Country Ski Club held their twenty-fifth annual ski run, commonly known as the Labrador Loppet. This involves a ski race from Fermont, Quebec to Labrador City, a distance of twenty-seven kilometers.

This year approximately 250 participants of all ages took part in the event. Skiers came from places as far away as New York, Maine, Quebec City, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Scotland, Goose Bay, Churchill Falls, Sept-Isle and the Island portion of our Province. One couple even came to celebrate their twenty-fifth wedding anniversary as part of a vacation to ski the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Loppet.

Alf Parsons, a well known local skier, finished the twenty-seven kilometers in a time of one hour and twenty-one minutes, quite a remarkable achievement.

Menihek Nordic ski trails are world class, hosting events such as the World Cup. It has also been used as a training center for both national and international cross-country ski teams.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to congratulate the Menihek Nordic Ski Club and the many volunteers and organizations who gave a lot of their time and effort to again make this annual event successful. This is truly a community event with a community effort.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: Appreciation is extended to Air Nova and the Iron Ore Company of Canada who helped co-sponsor this event.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to join with you and the members of this House in welcoming Mr. Shawn Rowe's grade IX Social Studies class from Whitbourne High. I am indeed very proud to speak on behalf of these students and the school itself.

I understand from the teacher, Mr. Rowe, that they have waited eagerly to visit the House and see for themselves democracy in action. I am even more impressed that they are going to be staying for Question Period, where they will certainly see democracy in action.

Their school, Whitbourne High, has had a long history of excellence due to the dedication of the teachers, parents and the community. Along with Mr. Rowe today are of course some chaperones: Mrs. Louise Drover, a parent; the bus driver, Mr. John Hepditch; and the IT specialist, Ms Cathy Lynch. I congratulate the group on their interest and the school for encouraging these worthwhile field trips. Keep up the good work and have a safe journey home.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to stand in the House today and report that this morning government gave a progress report on the Public Service Commission's Graduate Recruitment Program.

As part of the Public Service Reform Initiative, the Graduate Recruitment Program began last year to foster the continual development of our professional public service workforce.

Since 1997, government has been involved in Public Service Reform. This entailed numerous developmental opportunities for current members of the public service including bargaining unit and management employees. A $2 million Organizational Development Initiatives Fund was established to foster the development of the public service. Programs such as Frontline Leadership Training, departmental and strategic planning initiatives and professional development opportunities have been made available to all employees as part of Public Service Reform's ongoing commitment to the renewal of public service.

To ensure that the Province continues to have competent, educated and experienced professionals in the public service, the Graduate Recruitment Program was undertaken. For the fiscal year of 1999-2000, the Public Service Commission received funding to recruit five recent graduates from recognized post-secondary institutions. These graduates were the top candidates selected from over 500 applications. The five candidates are in the gallery today, along with Chairman and CEO Mr. Fonse Faour, and I would like them to stand and be recognized if they would: Krista Barnes, Ken Sooley, Douglas Sparkes, Robyn Montague and Robert Simons.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: To build on our current success with this initiative, and in our continued effort to meet the needs of our public service, I am pleased to announce that we are continuing and expanding the Graduate Recruitment Program. This program will now be an ongoing initiative of the provincial government. Combined with the recent five recruits, approximately fifty new graduates will be hired through the program over the next three years.

Graduates will be hired into entry-level, unclassified, non-bargaining unit positions and rotate through at least four work assignments over the next two years. The work assignments will provide a valuable experience for graduates and, in return, the recruits will provide a benefit to the departments they serve.

After a competition process which includes a screening for qualifications, the public service entrance exam and an interview stage, successful candidates will be offered a position in the two-year program. While the recruits are eligible to apply for competitions during their internship, they will be encouraged to complete the program, thereby giving them a more comprehensive skill set and better opportunities throughout the public service. Selection of the candidates for the program is conducted by the Public Service Commission in response to a public advertisement for the program.

This program has been developed in response to the demographic of our present public service. In the next five to ten years, it is anticipated that a number of our management group will be eligible for retirement. This fact strongly indicates that the government needs to be proactive in its human resource planning. Our latest initiative, combined with others arising from Public Service Reform, will attract the best and the brightest to the provincial public sector and will also show graduates that there are good opportunities for a career with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We on this side of the House want to join with the minister today and offer congratulations to the five candidates who are in the gallery. We believe the that government has a responsibility to seek out in Newfoundland and Labrador those young men and women who are in their post-secondary years and who wish to join the public service. We commend the minister, we commend the government, because we believe that there are great merits in planning a career in the public service.

Minister, I want to say that we look forward to more statements like this, making opportunities for young Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to work and be employed right here in their home Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to congratulate the first five recruits into this program. It is noteworthy that there were over 500 applicants indicating a great deal of interest from post-secondary graduates in a career in the public service. This program will serve to enhance the image of work in the public service and the professionalism in the public sector, in the public service of this Province. I think it is a very good program and I congratulate the Public Service Commission on its work in building this program. I hope the government continues to support this for the next three years and expand it, if possible, as the demand within the government exists to have more recruits fresh out of our post-secondary institutions.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to inform my hon. colleagues of the allocation of a grant of $25,000 to big Brothers/Big Sisters of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: This is in addition to the $50,000 contributed annually to the organization by the Department of Education.

It is a happy coincidence that this new grant is for $25,000, since this is the twenty-fifth anniversary of Big Brothers/Big Sisters in Newfoundland and Labrador.

The organization, whose mandate is to provide quality mentoring programs to children and youth in our Province, was founded in St. John's/Mount Pearl area in 1975 and has expanded across the Province to include offices in Grand Falls, Corner Brook and Stephenville.

This new money will help Big Brothers/Big Sisters increase the number of adult matches available to children in the program, increase the number of caseworkers, and also help to develop and implement new programs such as Life Choices for girls and Right for Me for boys - programs which help equip children and youth with the information they need to make important decisions about life choices.

I am pleased that government is able to help support organizations such as Big Brothers/Big Sisters, that do such important work for the children and youth in our Province.

Government supports, through the Department of Education Youth Services division, over forty groups and organization, such as Cadets, Boys and Girls Clubs, Skills Canada, the School Lunch Association, Girl Guides and the YM/YWCA. Last year, over $600,000 was granted and the budget for this year is nearly a million dollars.

I am sure my hon. colleagues will recall that just a few short weeks ago, the hon. Premier and I had the pleasure of witnessing a school breakfast program in action and announcing $1 million in endowment funding for the School Children's Food Foundation. This was in addition to government's previous investment of $1 million in the foundation in 1998.

I am very pleased that government is able to support the efforts of Big Brothers/Big Sisters, and many other organizations that work hard to see that the children and youth of our Province have the opportunity to take part in programs that help to enrich their lives.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, to the minister, good news. The youth of our Province certainly are in need of boosts such as these and I would take my hat off, as all my colleagues on this side would, to the volunteers, especially in Big Brothers/Big Sisters, who give so (inaudible) of their time. The needs of our youth have to be addressed, they need to continue to be addressed, and again to say to you to continue the effort to reach out to the youth of this Province and to make sure that the funds are available to action these types of things.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, applaud the efforts of the minister in the addition of $25,000 to Big Brothers/Big Sisters. We believe it is important because Big Brothers/Big Sisters are dealing with kids who are less fortunate than the majority in society. I think that, with the efforts that are made by the people who are involved in Big Brothers/Big Sisters, they can have a very profound effect on the life of young people, as I say, who are not fortunate enough to - as most of the children in our society are.

I think that the new programs such as Life Choices and Right for Me are programs that certainly will enable young people to deal better with their life, as they are going through it at this age -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. COLLINS: - and the additional money will certainly be of use to the many volunteers who are involved in making this program work.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last fall, my predecessor, the hon. Joan Marie Aylward, announced the formation of the Teen Tobacco Team. These teams and this team was set up to advise government on issues related to youth and tobacco, and in particular to help us reduce the amount of smoking among the young people in Newfoundland and Labrador.

During National Non-Smoking Week in January, the team launched their first promotional campaign through a poster which has been distributed to schools around the Province, and by assisting in the development of the Class of 2000 Smoking Prevention Program Scholarship.

The Teen Tobacco Team met for a second time this past weekend to discuss the Province's legislation respecting tobacco and smoking, to provide input into a new web site which will be targeted primarily toward young people, and to offer suggestions for the comprehensive public education campaign to be launched by the Alliance for the Control of Tobacco later this year.

During their visit, the team also had a chance to review a smoking cessation program aimed specifically at teens. Today, I am pleased to tell you that the team has endorsed the Kick the Nic 2000 program.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Accordingly, Mr. Speaker, today I am officially launching the Kick the Nic program in Newfoundland and Labrador as part of the provincial Youth Tobacco Strategy. Information related to that program is attached to this statement.

The program was developed in British Columbia and will be piloted in schools in Western and Central Newfoundland, and in St. John's this spring. Eighteen health professionals from the six Health and Community Services regions were trained earlier this month, and are tasked with recruiting and training program facilitators to deliver the program to teens in communities throughout the Province. Early next year, Kick the Nic will be implemented Province-wide once the pilots have been completed and evaluated.

Through the Kick the Nic program - language adopted by the teens themselves - the Teen Tobacco Team, and other initiatives, the Province's Youth Tobacco Strategy hopes to send the message to our young people that smoking kills. I ask each Member of the House of Assembly to take up the challenge of working with youth to educate them on the dangers of smoking.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly would like to thank the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs for the advance copy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: I might add that we support any program that is going to stamp out smoking because smoking has an untold cost on our system. I might add, while they are enjoying it, maybe we should call it: ‘In the Nic of time.' That might be a better name. Have our own original name rather than adopt one from BC or somewhere else. We would like to kick the nic but we would like to do it in the ‘nic' of time.

We certainly endorse the program. I think it is youth today where the problem begins. That is where it has to focus. I certainly compliment the minister and the previous minister on getting a program started with youth in our Province and getting youth involved in it. Because if youth do not get to play a part in it you cannot dictate to them -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: I support it, I said at the time. Youth involved in making decisions affecting youth is a lot more beneficial and gets better results than people like ourselves trying to tell them what is best for them. We endorse it. It is a good program to continue anti-smoking programs, and especially targeted toward youth because you get the most productive return on your investment there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I hope that this program works. It sounds pretty cool, Kick the Nic. I hope it makes smoking not popular. It is something kids do because they think it is cool to do. I hope this works in stopping it.

We hear about this all of the time. There is another thing we need to hear about more. Maybe the Minister of Justice can tell us about the government's lawsuit against the tobacco companies. The Premier announced in in June 1997. He announced it again in the election of 1999. The next time there is an election we will hear about it again, but where is the lawsuit? BC has started one. The Americans have already collected on two or three. What is this government doing in terms of getting money from the tobacco companies which are poisoning our young people and poisoning our population with their tobacco?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The most important and most current issue facing the people of the Province today has been the news that was leaked from a document from DFO recommending, I say to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, a possible 50 per cent reduction in the quota of the crab stock this year with recommendations of 20 to 25 per cent. Had it not been for this leaked document, it is entirely possible that today in the House the lead off question would have been different.

I would like to ask the Minister of Fisheries this question. With respect to the information contained in that document, was he aware, prior to this document being leaked, of that information? If he was, when was he made aware, either by his federal counterparts or others, of the state of the crab stock in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: There was no leaked document. I was made aware of the information three weeks ago.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I understand that the announcement of the quota could be made as early as this afternoon. Has the minister been informed of what will be contained in that announcement? Or has he been made aware that there is an announcement going to be made? This is my information. If he has not been made aware and there will not be, has he been informed by his federal counterpart, Minister Dhaliwal, of when the announcement will take place?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, DFO scientists gave a briefing to my officials and myself and people in the industry the week before I went to the Boston Seafood Show.

AN HON. MEMBER: March 4.

MR. EFFORD: March 4, that is correct. At that time it was given also to FANL, which represents the processing industry, and representatives of the harvesting industry. So there was no information kept from anybody in the industry. After the initial discussions, I then had a followup meeting with scientists in DFO, and since that time we had a Fisheries Forum 2000 here in St. John's where scientists came in and made a full presentation to all of the people who attended that forum. So there was no information kept from anybody.

As far as the crab quotas in the year 2000 - are you talking about crab?

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes.

MR. EFFORD: As far as the quotas being announced today, no, Mr. Speaker. There were industry consultations that took place in Grand Falls yesterday. There are industry consultations taken place here in St. John's today with 3L fishermen, and in Labrador tomorrow with the 2J fishermen. As soon as the industry consultations are concluded, that information will be sent off within two to three days to the federal minister. He has agreed to make an announcement on the quota within a few days after that information is sent from industry consultations to his office.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is an important issue, because the growth in the shellfish fishery is probably one of the single biggest contributors to the growth of our gross domestic product in terms of driving the economy in real value, in jobs, in money that circulates in the economy, in corner stores, in car lots, et cetera.

Yesterday outside the House the Premier told reporters: No one should be surprised by the sharp decline in the crab biomass. The premier said: Crab is cyclical, and for the last couple of years we have been fishing at the top of the cycle catching two or three times as much as we did four years ago. So if that is the case, if you and the Department knew that it was cyclical, and that the decline was inevitable, why did the provincial government, through the Department of Fisheries, both the Minister of Fisheries and the Premier, support, publicly, giving the impression and enticing people into the industry, the three year crab management plan, where people spent literally millions of dollars to invest in this industry? Now they are to be left with uncertainty, based upon your advice enticing people in, to be left now with uncertainty of where their investment will go.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: My hon. critic for Bonavista South has very little knowledge of the fishing industry, but the Leader of the Opposition has less knowledge of the fishing industry, because everything that he just said is a distortion of the real facts. What the Premier said last evening is: Nobody should be surprised about what is taking place in the crab fishery today, because over the years, with the cyclical situation with the crabs, you do have periods -

MR. TULK: General knowledge.

MR. EFFORD: General knowledge, nature's own hands. You do have period of declines. In Alaska today there may be a small fishery this year and there will be none next year, because they did not have the science information on hand which we have today. We now know there is a problem in recruitment. We can make some adjustments in the quotas this year and next year to prevent a total collapse. I think it is wake up call, I think it is good news.

The other thing we should not be doing is placing all of our emphasis on just one species. We had an experience on the northern cod with that. I have been saying that for the last four years. We should be diversifying, we should be looking at other species. Yes, the crab will be cut back some this year, we don't now what amount, but it is a preventative measure against the total collapse of the stocks. By taking those measures we will have some short-term pain for some long-term gain.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: That is a typical Liberal minister way. This has become characteristic of any questions that have been asked in this House by any one of us. The minute they have a tough question to deal with, a serious question that deserves a serious answer, what is it? They try to distort the individual. They will not deal with the facts of the matter. That is what this minister is trying to do again today, as that minister did, and as that minister has done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Now minister, let me ask you this question. Yesterday you said in the House, and I will quote for you, this: Nature will also play a role in what will happen and I am worried about where we are going in the future. In his own document, Fisheries Forum 2000, let me quote for him. He says: In order to sustain our fishery for the long-term we must be conservation minded and ensure that only prudent management measures take place.

Are you convinced that with the knowledge that you have had about the cyclical nature of crab on the one hand that you have advised people properly in the industry, that you did not put their investments in jeopardy, and that the practices that you have been following are indeed sound and prudent management?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. In fact, about six weeks ago I took a lot of abuse from small boat fishermen in Newfoundland and Labrador who asked for an increase in quota. I said very clearly I will not support any increase in quota based on economics, based on selfishness, based on the demand for more, unless it is based on good, solid science. Unlike one federal minister from the Tory government in Ottawa who was part of doubling the science quota and caused the collapse of the groundfish stocks!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. EFFORD: This minister, under this government, will not support the increase of any stocks only based on good sound science. I have said to every fishermen in Newfoundland and Labrador for the last four-plus years: Be careful of where we are going in the future. Diversify! Look at other opportunities, because even if the scientists increase the quotas based on good, sound science, you can never predict what nature is going to do. So be careful where we are going in the future. That has been the sound, solid information, prudent management, from this minister and this government.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, this is the same minister who stands on his pedestal today who in the last three years since becoming minister has doubled the capacity in processing in this industry.

Let me ask him this question. If he is so concerned about science, the federal government - and I will remind him of something. Dhaliwal, the Liberal federal ministers over the last four years in particular, when we have needed science the most they responded the least. I will ask you this. What have you done in terms of the provincial ministry to ensure that we get more science? Isn't it about time to follow maybe a recommendation that we made to you, that we made to the people of the Province during the recent election, where we said: In view of the fact where the federal government is not supporting the people of this Province, or are not in terms of fishery science, isn't it about time that we take matters into our own hands? Isn't it about time that we put in place a watchdog sort of organization, partially funded by ourselves, to ensure that the science that we depend upon so much, that we are not now getting from the federal government, we can do ourselves to ensure the sustainability of the industry? Why won't you take that action, minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, this minister will take second place to no former Minister of Fisheries. This minister will take second place to nobody.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. EFFORD: How do you call doubling the number of plants when we have reduced the plants from 245 so-called fish plants in this Province to fifty-seven? Now that's doubling; 245 down to fifty-seven. When there were seventeen crab processing plants in the Province there was a quota of 16,000 tonne. Today there are thirty plants in the Province and there is a 66,000 tonne quota. There used to be a monopolization of the crab fishery. We have brought some regional balance to the processing of the crab fishery around Newfoundland and Labrador. We had that discussion in the Estimates Committee this morning when the critic from Bonavista South said we had too many and his colleague from Triton said: Oh no, I want my plant in Triton. So get your act together over there.

Mr. Speaker, there is science in DFO. Is there enough? No, there is not enough. We have called for more and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Canada within days will be announcing more science for DFO, not only in Newfoundland and Labrador but in Atlantic Canada as a whole, not only to study the crab stocks but to study all species of fish

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture as well. I say to the minister that while he is quick to accept credit, he is very slow to accept responsibility. It was only three weeks ago that I heard the minister calling back from the seafood show down in Boston, talking about him being down there trying to secure markets; and all of a sudden this fear was drifted over the Province of Newfoundland that there might be a cutback in crab fish stocks; there might be a cutback in the total allowable catch in crab.

The minister said: Take it easy, this is just one piece in a big puzzle. What you are doing is stifling my progress down here in order to create markets.

What the Leader of the Opposition was saying as it relates to expanding on the processing sector of this Province was not groundfish. It was shellfish, I say to the minister.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to now get to his question.

MR. FITZGERALD: The minister, during his term in the fisheries portfolio, has doubled the number of licences issued to crab processors, and existing processors have expanded their operations. In view of the fact, Minister, that the crab stocks were at their cyclical peak, does the minister now think that it was wise to approve such a massive increase in production capacity?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I do consider it prudent to do what we did in the past, increasing the number of processing plants in the Province. First of all, there was a quota of 16,000 tonne. There were seventeen licences owned by seven companies. Do you remember the cartel? Do you remember the monopolization? Then the quota went to 66,000 tonne, and then we increased the number of processing plants around the Province on a good regional balance.

Now if the Opposition, all members, wish me to decrease it, I can take three out of the Opposition House Leader's district, I can take one from Triton and one from the Member for Bonavista South, and then maybe we will have enough in the Province, if that is what he is saying.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, the people in the fishing industry, I am sure, will be glad to hear what the solution is to the problem. This is what we have been hearing from this minister on a continuous basis, I say.

This member here has warned the minister about issuing new crab processing licences from the very beginning. The alternative was to use existing capacity.

Does the minister know how much money was invested in new plants and equipment as a result of his promotion of a drastic expansion in processing capacity in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, in 1996 one of the first things we had to do as a government was write off $26 million of unpaid debt by former ministers, by former governments handing out money to the fishing industry in this Province.

MR. TULK: What about the middle-distance fleet? (Inaudible).

MR. EFFORD: And the middle-distance fleet, in excess of - how many?

MR. TULK: Twenty-nine million.

MR. EFFORD: Twenty-nine million.

What I have done since I came with this department, with the support of my colleagues in Cabinet, is not put one nickel into the industry whatsoever in building processing plants where there is crab, cod or shrimp; not one nickel. It is has been totally industry driven, and if somebody out there wants to buy new equipment, wants to expand their plant, that is up to them. Has there been too much money invested? No, Mr. Speaker. There has not been too much money invested because those people who will be processing crab and other species have been doing very well on the 66,000 tonne quota, what used to be just a few short years ago 16,000 tonne.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if the minister can tell the House how many of the processors he licensed since he became minister have recovered their investment into this particular fishery? Then he warned them at the time that crab stocks were not sustainable. Did he warn them, as the Premier said, that crab stocks have a shelf life of five to six years, and that they could lose their total investment into this particular fishery.?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Do I understand the member right? Did I advise Vic Young, CEO of FPI, did I advise Pat Quinlan, owner and operator of the Quinlan and Quinsea Seafood Products, did I advise Carl Sullivan, Bill Barry of Seafreeze, that they may or may not be making a wise investment? No, Mr. Speaker, I certainly did not. I would not consider my expertise up to their equal in managing their own business.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further to my question on March 23 to the Minister of the Department of Development and Rural Renewal with respect to the Auditor General's report, and the wasting and loss of $60 million by his department, why did you, as minister, permit loans to companies that were in arrears on existing loans, or when there were indications that these companies were not acting in good faith? Hasn't the Tobin administration now created their own file gate scandal?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me first of all say to the hon. gentleman that the figure of $60 million that has been lost, that he talks about - the Department of Development was put in place April 1, 1996. In its first year its budget, including the Special Reserve Fund, was $18 million; the next year the budget was $7 million; the next year that the Auditor General reports on, there was $7 million as well. Eighteen million plus $7 million is $25 million, plus $7 million is $32 million.

Let me say to the hon. gentleman that if we had lost every cent of it, how does his mathematics square with sixty million bucks?

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I would take the Auditor General's figures any day over those of the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal. I can guarantee you that.

Mr. Speaker, I will ask the minister this question: Why were three projects pre-approved under the Strategic Enterprise Development Special Reserve Fund, before the board of ENL or the department became involved - another ten and three-quarter million, I say to the minister? Why were proper procedures not followed in approving those loans?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me also say to the hon. gentleman that in terms of his $60 million that was spent -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TULK: I will get to the question. I have no problem with answering questions for the hon. gentleman.

Mr. Speaker, let me say to the hon. gentleman that in terms of the loan of $60 million that the Auditor General refers to, if he read the report closely he would see that the Auditor General did a number of cases, took a number of cases out of that report. Some of them came from April 1, 1996 to January 31, 1999. Of the -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TULK: Just a minute, I am about to get to it.

If he looks at the allowance for doubtful accounts -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TULK: In terms of the allowance for doubtful accounts, the Auditor General points out that 25 per cent of the money that has been loaned, let me say to the hon. gentleman, by a former government, by the Rideout government, by the Peckford government - she goes back to 1987 - all of the loans are not even ENL's. She goes back to one, for example, in the aquaculture industry that was, I think - the file was started in 1987.

Let me say to the hon. gentleman that in terms of what the Department of Development and Rural Renewal lost -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TULK: - in that allowance for doubtful accounts is 7 per cent of 25 per cent. I wonder if he can make that up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Health and concerns the conduct of genetic research in the Province. Is his government going to continue to permit the exploitation of the people of this Province with the unregulated collection of genetic materials such as happened with the snatch-and-grab or stab-and-grab approach taken by the organization from Texas? Or will he take steps to require proper ethical standards in the conduct of this research, counseling for participants regarding possible family consequences, or proper protection from the implications for life insurance for people involved in this approach. Is he prepared to take these steps to protect the people of this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

No to the first part, and yes to the second part.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, what is his government prepared to do to ensure that the participants in this genetic research will benefit from the results of this research, and what is he going to do to ensure that such research takes place here in this Province, and also that the people of the Province as a whole benefit from this research?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think it is understood in Newfoundland and Labrador that this is a ground that is very fertile and ripe for genetic research, and that genetic researchers from all over the world would like to have better and increasing access to work in this particular Province.

We are currently having an assessment done on a special contract with a consultant to advise the government as to the proper legislative and regulatory regime so that we can have all of the moral and ethical issues, as well as the administrative issues, with respect to genetics research properly placed before this Legislature, before the business becomes the booming business that I understand he wants it to be. Because he is suggesting that we want to attract more of this work and this effort to Newfoundland and Labrador, but we want to make sure that the appropriate safeguards are in place, and we are having that studied extensively at this point.

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is a sense of urgency about this particular activity because companies are already operating here. How soon is the government prepared to respond to this circumstance and attempt to put in place proper regulations and proper procedures?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: At the very earliest opportunity, Mr. Speaker. I am sure the hon. member would agree there are a series of very complex and important issues surrounding the whole basis of genetic research. We want to make sure it is a fundamental basis for a good program in Newfoundland and Labrador with continuing valuable research done here and that it is done on a proper basis so that we can protect the individuals involved, protect the information, and make sure we are doing it right, and doing it right here in Newfoundland and Labrador. At the earliest opportunity we will be bringing something forward.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are to the Minister of Health and Community Services. A new study completed this month is being carried out to assess the quality, validity and viability of agency provided health care and to recommend an action plan to enhance the sustainability of the sector. This report, entitled Home is Where the Care Is: Home Support Agencies Beyond 2000, puts forth thirty-two recommendations covering all aspects of home health care, including training, wages, administration, the whole gamut basically in the delivery of home health care.

The report states, "It is feared under the current framework, the Home Support Industry cannot provide the quality of service that is required and there is concern that the current quality of service will deteriorate if the situation does not change..." given challenges facing the industry such as confusing legislation and regulations, lack of clear standards, severe shortage of skilled workers and recruitment and retention of skilled workers.

I want to ask the minister - and I am sure he has probably seen or read this report - is your department now actively working to implement an efficient and standardized home health care program for this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: I asked him had he read the report? Is his yes to reading the report or yes to implementing a program for a standardized health care in the Province? Or yes to both?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Just the latter at this point, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding, actually, that the report the hon. member is holding in his hands is to be released publicly in the Province on April 3. We have been provided an advanced copy, as he has, so that we could have some advance notice of what the thirty-two recommendations are. The officials have been working with this issue for some time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Shame, shame!

MR. GRIMES: In fact, Mr. Speaker, it is already on our agenda as a major item to be discussed with the federal Minister of Health, Minister Rock, at a meeting in May so that we can join with the Government of Canada, hopefully, in a national Canadian home care program. We recognize that despite the effort in Newfoundland and Labrador of going from a $3 million program ten years ago to almost a $40 million program today - so we have almost a thirteen-fold increase in the program in a decade - there are a series of inadequacies. We do hope the Government of Canada will come forward and be a participating funding partner so that we can at least double our effort over the next few years in home care in Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm glad the minister said he has an advanced copy because I did not, and I did not know it was going to be released. I happened to get access, through a source, to try to get my hands on a copy. It was not provided, I might say to the minister quite clearly, and I am delighted now he said it is going to be raised on April 3. That is new information to me.

The federal government is contemplating funding a national health home care program. I am sure there will be certain standards and guidelines the federal government will want to make sure this program has universal application and is an accessible program. Is the minister currently addressing the deficiencies in our provincial health care system now so we can maximize the benefits to our Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are maximizing the benefits available in our Province at this point in time. Even from year over year, we have gone from a funding level of some $27 million last year to what will be almost $40 million this year, which is almost a 50 per cent increase in one year alone for home care and home support.

We are doing two things. We are trying to make sure that we provide better conditions for the workers who are providing the much needed service, and secondly we are trying to broaden the base for those who need the service so we can offer more of it. We would certainly welcome the participation of the Government of Canada on a 50-50 cost sharing basis as they have been indicating so that we can broaden the service and, hopefully, also increase the benefit levels for the service providers.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister said we are maximizing the service. That is not basically as I understand it, and the deficiencies in this report will tell you otherwise.

Minister, in some regions of this Province health care in the home, or home health care as we call it, is denied, even though clients have been assessed as needing that service. In certain regions of the Province now, because of limited funding, needy people have to wait until somebody in that region dies before they can get on the list.

I want to ask the minister this. Is he now addressing this problem so that people needing home care are not denied accessibility because they live in a specific region of the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I think there is a dangerous premise being suggested here which is not applicable. There are not different rules in different parts of the Province with respect to access to home care. There are consistent rules in every region of the Province. There is a budget -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I was making a point. There is a budget which when the budget is exhausted no further service can be provided. Depending upon how and what time of the year the budget gets exhausted, it determines whether or not there is a waiting list and how long it is in certain parts of Newfoundland and Labrador. There are not different rules. There are consistent rules. There are budgets. There is a limit which the government can spend on any service including home care in any one year, and in fact in some districts, in some regions, they get further into a fiscal year before they have to cut off any additions to the service than they do in others. It is not because there are different rules. It is because there are fixed budgets in every region for home support and home care. Some people run out of the ability to add new service earlier than others.

MR. SPEAKER: There is time for one quick supplementary.

The Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister has said there are standards and consistencies across the Province. That is exactly not so. There are people in certain regions of this Province denied care because they happen to live on the Burin Peninsula or elsewhere.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: I want to ask the minister: Is he aware that access to home health care is not standard across the Province? Because different boards have different budgets, and there are different wages paid to health care workers to work in those homes in the Province. That is not the same standard, I say to the Minister. Is he aware of that?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, there is one standard in the whole Province which is this standard: If a board exhausts their budget no further service can be provided in the fiscal year. That is the rule in every board depending upon utilization and need in any one area. Some people have to deny service earlier in a fiscal year than others, and that is a function of the demographics of the area, not a function of any change or difference in the program.

MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to section 49(2) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to table the attached list of treasury loans raised under section 48 of the act since the last report to the House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a petition here regarding some housing needs through Newfoundland and Labrador Housing in the area of Shea Heights. It is an issue that I have raised with the previous minister. I have not had a chance to go into great detail with the current minister. I have advised her briefly prior to the House today. I will be making a formal request to her on this.

The petition reads as follows:

We, the residents of Shea Heights, wish to petition the hon. House of Assembly to address the needs for wheelchair accessible housing units in the Shea Heights area. We are asking the government to consider the fact that people with disabilities and their families need to be able to utilize the support of family and friends within the community of Shea Heights. If persons are forced to live in units outside the community it compromises the help and support families so vitally needed. We are asking that serious consideration be given to the construction of wheelchair accessible units in the Shea Heights area so families with physical disabilities may avail of essential support networks, meaning those offered by family and friends and neighbors within the communities that they grew up in and lived in for a number of years.

Barring the ability of government to construct wheelchair accessible units, what we would like to see is for government to make some of the existing units within the Shea Heights area accessible to wheelchairs so that people with disabilities can have greater access to public housing units within the Shea Heights community.

Mr. Speaker, at present there are no truly wheelchair accessible units in the Shea Heights area. Ideally, what we would like to see is the construction of at least a couple of units that are truly wheelchair accessible in that community.

Shea Heights is a very close-knit community and it is really unfortunate that members of that community with disabilities or with wheelchair needs are asked to leave their community to seek public housing in areas outside of the Shea Heights area, in other areas of the city. It is important that they are close to their family, friends, and neighbors where they can gain extra help and extra support. In a lot of cases within the Shea Heights area, as I have said, it is a very close-knit community and there are far greater support networks and family networks in that area than there are in other areas of the city.

Again, I respectfully request that government take a look at this petition and give serious consideration to the petition.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, Motion 1. It is called the Budget Speech. I would like to rename it and call it the Jack Byrne show.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have been looking forward to this moment because I am going to give the true story of what is happening in this Province today. I am going to give the true story about this Budget, the Budget highlights. I am going to be general in nature in the beginning. I am hoping to go on for a certain length of time in my mind. I am not sure how long it will take. It depends on how long my voice will last.

I will tell you this, that I found a new job for the Minister of Finance and the Premier. We all know the Premier is not going to be around much longer. We know he has ambitions to go up along or somewhere. The Minister of Finance, his new job when he leaves government is going to be this. He is going to go to Halifax or he may go to Las Vegas, but he is going to find a casino for himself and he is going to become a card shark. I will tell you why. This Budget should be called the slight of hand budget. What you see and what they are telling you and what you get are different things, I say to you. I will give you a few examples as we go along.

Mr. Speaker, we have often heard the saying: You rob Peter to pay Paul. That is what is happening with this Budget.

MR. HARRIS: Who, Paul Martin?

MR. J. BYRNE: There is a comment here from the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi: Who is he talking about, Paul Martin? Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Basically, they are robbing from government departments or government Crown agencies to help balance the budget. We have seen it over the past few years where this administration are taking the quick fix. In due course - I have lots of time - I will get into that.

Basically, we have the Budget Highlights here and I am going to address some of these here now. It talks about the fiscal performance for 1999-2000. It says it is the fourth consecutive year the government has met or bettered its fiscal target.

Mr. Speaker, when we have an administration that are, as I said before, robbing Peter to pay Paul, it is not too hard to do that. When they are telling the people one thing and doing another, it is not too hard to do that.

Over the past few years, of course, what we have seen from this administration is that they have been saying there are no tax increases, but what we did see was licenses, fees and permits doubling, tripling and quadrupling. They are charging rates on permits today that were never charged before. I will get into that in due course. Probably on Thursday or Monday, I will address those concerns with respect to the licenses, fees and permits.

I see the Member for Bay of Islands over there shaking his head and smiling in agreement with what I am saying, the smile that we often get from that side of the House of Assembly. Again, we have the Minister of Fisheries who so often, when he is up - and we have the critic for fisheries, the Member for Bonavista South, putting the minister in his place all the time.

I have to make some comparisons here. We have the critic for health on this side of the House, who knows more about health concerns and what is going on in this Province with respect to health than any member on that side of the House. We have the critic for fisheries on this side of the House who knows ten times what the Minister of Fisheries knows, although he thinks - the Minister of Fisheries, that is - that he has all the answers; but, we saw our Leader today asking the Minister of Fisheries questions that he could not answer. As a matter of fact, I think he was rather embarrassed. I think the Minister of Fisheries was embarrassed with the answers he was giving here today. I know if I was Minister of Fisheries, I would be embarrassed. There is no doubt about that.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) cancel the boat trip.

MR. J. BYRNE: That is the thing I am expecting. Thursday night - I wasn't in attendance, but I would have to say - another embarrassing night for the Minister of Fisheries when he saw the Tories bid $1,700 on an afternoon with the Minister of Fisheries. I can tell you one thing, Mr. Speaker, if I was there at that meeting I would have donated the money and said no to the trip. I can guarantee you that. I would never be caught with the Minister of Fisheries on the bay for an afternoon. My God!. I will tell you why: because if the situation was reversed, the Minister of Fisheries would not be caught with us. I can guarantee you that. So, I expect the $1,700 for that donation to the group is going to become $3,400, because I expect the Minister of Fisheries to buy it back. He is going to buy it back. I wouldn't put it past him. Only for he is so tight you can hear him squeaking, he probably would do that.

With respect to the Budget, here is the situation. I will tell you where the slight of hand comes in. We have a projection here under the fiscal performance, projected deficit at $32.8 million. In the Budget itself we have a contingency fund of $33 million. If you look at the figures by the Department of Finance in this Budget - which we know are not accurate. We had the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal today answering questions, my questions. He was trying to get up and deflect the issue again and say that the Auditor General was wrong in her figures. Mr. Speaker, how ludicrous. How ludicrous is that, when we have the Government House Leader trying to say that the facts and figures of the Auditor General are not correct?

I have had a lot of dealings with the Auditor General over the past few years, as Chairman of the PAC. We have had a number of public hearings and I have yet to come across her figures being wrong. The Minister of Development and Rural Renewal would try and have you believe that they were wrong; again, trying to deflect away from the issue.

He never answered my second question with respect to why there were approvals - pre-approvals - given for three projects worth somewhere around $11.8 million. Why were the pre-approvals given before the Board of Directors of ENL were informed, before the department were given? Because, of course, politics, patronage, that this government is so rampant at. Patronage everywhere you look. We have the Public Tendering Act destroyed, and I am going to get into that on Thursday or Friday. We have the Public Service Commission destroyed, literally, and we had the minister today having the gall to stand up and talk about the Public Service Commission, when it was put in place in the first place by a Tory administration to try and straighten out the previous administration, Joey Smallwood's era, when we put the Public Service Commission in place, when we put the Public Tendering Act in place, and we have that crowd on that side of the House literally destroying it for all intents and purposes.

The Minister of Development and Rural Renewal has the gall to stand in his place today and question the figures of the Auditor General. How foolish.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I took it right out of the book. It is right here. Oh yes, here it is, I say to the member: Only 25 per cent of the ENL's total loan and equity portfolio of $78.2 million is estimated to be recoverable. Now, figure it out, I say to the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal.

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Smith): On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, let me just say to the hon. gentleman that the statement that he just made comes right out of the Auditor General's book, absolutely. What he does not do is - further along the way, the Auditor General says: When I step outside of the accountant's role, the ENL collects 65 per cent of all of its funds.

What he also did not say is that ENL has been named fifty-two times by the Auditor General as being responsible for those loans - when in fact the Department of Development was only responsible for 7 per cent of them, ran back in the days when the Member for Lewisporte was the Premier, was responsible for I think it was $4.8 million of them, and that a previous administration in this Province was responsible for some forty-eight.

My question to him was: How does twenty-eight, seven - $25 million and $7 million, $32 million, add up to $60 million? It cannot be done.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I think it is 99 per cent now he is batting. No point of order, as usual, abusing the House. The Member of the House of Assembly who is supposed to show decorum, is supposed to have respect for the rules and procedures of the House, is the one who abuses them the most, I say to you, Mr. Speaker. He should be taken to task on that one of these days, I suggest.

Back to the fiscal performance of 1999-2000 in the Budget Highlights.

MR. ANDERSEN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains, on a point of order.

MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, I was listening to the Member for Cape St. Francis speak and he made a statement about twenty-five paragraphs back when he said that the Member for Bay of Islands was shaking his head in agreement. Mr. Speaker, I do believe that it is nodding your head in agreement. I know that he is an hon. member so I want to give him the chance to correct himself.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Member for Torngat Mountains, a well-respected Member of the House, no doubt, and, as we know, works hard in his district and what have you, thank you. Please interject as often as you like. I appreciate it, I say to the member. The Member for Bay of Islands was over there nodding his head in agreement. I would think, knowing the Member for Bay of Islands - I think I heard him speak in the House of Assembly before, and I know he has a tongue - I am sure he is well able to speak for himself, I say to the Member for Torngat. Would the Member of Bay of Islands agree with that? I think he would.

MR. JOYCE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands, on a point of order.

MR. JOYCE: I would just like to tell the member opposite, I wasn't shaking my head in agreement. I was shaking my head, telling you that House is closed on Friday. It is open again on Monday.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I have heard tell of sign language before; but nodding your head as sign language, I didn't really pick up the message, I say to you.

Let's get back to the Budget. Here we have the member, Sir Gisborne of Bellevue -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I will let that go, Mr. Speaker.

We talk about: a stronger year-end position will allow the Province to defer certain revenues, 2000-2001, and to make strategic investments of $70 million before year end; $48 million targeted to health care.

Forty-eight million dollars, that is what they are saying they are putting in health care. We have in this Budget - we'll find it somewhere else - they are saying they are putting $136 million into health care. Do you see the trickery going on here?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Well, Sir Gisborne of Bellevue asked me if this is my maiden speech. I have been in this House for seven years and I would say that if the Member for Bellevue spoke - I am sure I can count on one hand how often he has been on his feet. He may have been up a few times more, not very often though. I will probably, one of these days, get some Hansards and send them out to his district. Maybe four or five times; you can count on one hand the times he made sense, I say to the Member for Bellevue, and to say: Is this my maiden speech?

He couldn't hold a candle, time wise, in speaking in this House of Assembly, to me and to every other member on this side of the House. We have members on this side of the House who have been here just over a year, who are speaking more in this House of Assembly. He has been here, what? Ten years you have been here - eleven years - and he is supposed to be a pro at it. When he gets up over there... That is another thing, too, that I have noticed lately, which was brought up in the House the other day, of course: his suits, all these new suits.

Actually, I really thought the last time when there was an addition to Cabinet, that it was going to be the Member for Bellevue; but no, it was not. I will make another prediction. The next time around is not going to be the Member for Bellevue either. You know who it is going to be? Over there in the corner, look, the Member for Torngat Mountains. That is who it is going to be.

That is the last time, because after the next election, if you're lucky, I say to the Member for Bellevue, - if you are lucky - you are going to be on this side of the House. If not, you are going to be out of the House altogether, gone. That is a fact. Mark it down, on March 28, at 2:52 p.m., that the Member for Cape St. Francis said that to the Member for Bellevue - gone, one way or the other.

AN HON. MEMBER: I will be asking you questions (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You could very well be. I t could very well be happening, I say to the member.

We have here the Budget outlook. I am only going to touch on the highlights of the Budget this afternoon because, as you can see, I am well prepared. This is my response to the Budget.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) Loyola.

MR. J. BYRNE: Is that right? Anyway, I can guarantee you one thing; the Member for Ferryland knows more about health care than the previous minister, the current minister, and the previous, previous minister, the Minister of Finance today, combined. He knows more than that, I can guarantee you that.

AN HON. MEMBER: That is why he was a good teacher. (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I didn't know him when he was teaching. I cannot comment. I can only comment on what I know to be happening in this House of Assembly. That is what we do on this side of the House. We criticize the government on that side of the House, and we know what we are talking about.

AN HON. MEMBER: You are just an old surveyor. That is all you are.

MR. J. BYRNE: I have been surveying the situation on that side of the House. Do you want me to talk about it? Do you want me to tell you what is going on over there? Do you want me to tell the Premier where he is going to be in a year to eighteen months? Do you want me to tell you about the Minister of Fisheries, how it is going to come down between him and the Minister of Health for the leadership?

AN HON. MEMBER: Where do you expect him to go?

MR. J. BYRNE: He is going to be out of here. He could be out of this Province. He may be in politics, but he may not be.

AN HON. MEMBER: Where?

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, he will be in Ottawa, if he is in politics, but he may not be.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, neither.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Possibly.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) congratulate him.

MR. J. BYRNE: When it happens. When it happens again, I will congratulate him for being out of the Province, there is no doubt about that, because the Province will be much better off when he is gone. We will have a new election, and we will have the Leader of the Opposition today become the Premier of this Province. That is when we will start to see things happening in this Province, and we will stop seeing the trickery, the smoke, the mirrors of the budgets that you are bringing down here all the time.

With respect to the Budget Outlook 2000-2001, we have: responsible financial management allows us to make a modest deficit of $34.7 million. I kind of touched on that. If you take out the $30 million, or if you factor in the $30 million of the contingency fund, the deficit is actually $4.7 million, according to their figures; but I am going to talk about, in due course, how that figure is really upwards of $300 million, the deficit of this Province, and what we are going to be facing a year or two down the road because of the quick fixes of this administration. We are going the see the cash crunch coming. We are going to talk about what is going to happen to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Even a further blow with respect to the financial mismanagement of the Province, the financial trickery of this Budget, if, in fact, the crab fishery is impacted upon like we have been questioning on this side of the House, and the revenues from the crab fishery have not come forward to the Province, this Province is going to be in even worse shape.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: What?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: If the revenues with respect to crab - the reduction in quotas.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You are the one who said it. The Minister of Fisheries is the one who said it, that we are going to have to cut the quotas. If you cut the quotas, obviously there is going to be less crab caught. If there is less crab caught, there is going to be less people fishing. If there are less people fishing, just think about the spinoffs. That will be addressed over the next few days also.

It says here that the government has a $30 million contingency reserve maintained. Maintained? Thirty million dollars of the contingency fund maintained. Again, what is that going to be? How is that going to be utilized? What is this Province going to do with that? Is that going to be another slush fund for this administration to put into - when elections are coming near, that they can pump money right, left and center and not really care about the consequences of it.

I remember in the last election, which was only a little over a year ago, when some of our policies were being put forward with respect to the payroll tax, with respect to the income tax and what have you. This administration, led by the Premier and the Minister of Finance - the present minister of Mines and Energy - laughed and ridiculed, said it could not be done. What did they do? They went out and did the very things we were preaching.

The Liberal Government in Newfoundland and the Liberal Government in Ottawa are - I will give them credit for one thing; they are good at stealing our ideas.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I am not accusing anybody.

MR. EFFORD: Be careful of what you are saying.

MR. J. BYRNE: I know what I am saying, I say to the member. I never pointed anybody out. I said the government here and in Ottawa are good at taking our ideas, stealing them and trying to call them their own. Again, we know what happens there.

I am going to have to calm her down a bit because my voice has to last another two-and-a-half hours. So I will try and keep it down a bit.

Highlights - no new taxes in this Budget. Again, another trickery, another misrepresentation of the facts. I suppose that is parliamentary.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Two per cent.

We have the payroll tax, and they are saying they are going to increase the ceiling on the payroll tax. That is a good thing, I say to you, no doubt in my mind. We on this side of the House have been opposing the payroll tax for years, since it was first brought in by the previous Premier Wells. It was really a tax on jobs. Can you imagine anybody in their right mind creating a tax that taxes jobs?

MS S. OSBORNE: In a Province where there is 17 per cent unemployment.

MR. J. BYRNE: In a Province where there is so-called 17 per cent UI, but in reality it is probably more like 20 per cent or 25 per cent - a tax on jobs.

I was involved in a small business at the time, and I saw the impact that the payroll tax had on small businesses. When they first brought it in the ceiling was $300,000. If you had a company and you were paying out $300,000 you would pay taxes on it, but if you had a company that was paying out, say, $150,000 you didn't have to pay the payroll tax. That was pretty bad. I thought that was disgusting. A year or two after that, what did they do? They reduced the ceiling from $300,000 down to $100,000. In Newfoundland there are small companies, and they have four or people employed, which are going to hit that target. Now we had people in private industry saying: We won't hire that position now, we won't fill that position, because if we do that we will be over the $100,000 mark and we have to pay taxes. Absolutely ridiculous.

We have this Administration today saying there were no new taxes in this Budget, but with respect to the payroll tax they spread it out. There are companies now paying the payroll tax that haven't paid it before. The pulp and paper is one, for instance, that is now paying the payroll tax.

AN HON. MEMBER: You are not complaining about that (inaudible)?

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, I am. The Member for Topsail, Mr. Speaker, is saying: You are not complaining about that. Is the Member for Topsail in his right mind, I say? You agree that we should have taxes on jobs? If you were going to create a few jobs tomorrow we should tax those jobs? That is a disincentive, I say to the Member for Topsail. It is no wonder, if you have that type of thinking over there, that this Province is so far behind. There are so many issues that are going to be addressed over here in the next little while.

In this highlights again, we talk about the economic performance, 5.3 per cent real GDP growth in 1999. The Premier is so often known to be praising the GDP in the Province but when you compare it to other provinces - I have my facts and figures on that. Again, I am going to be going into more detail as the time goes on with respect to these issues, but the true picture will come out in this House of Assembly over the next few days. We will make sure that the people in this Province understand what is happening with respect to this Budget, the slight of hand Budget.

Then it talks about a 5.5 per cent employment growth in 1999 that is double the national pace. That in itself sounds great, but after the cod moratorium and we were so far down, when you compare it to other provinces, we are not even near to the level where we were back in 1992. The other provinces are proceeding on all the time. We are talking about the rate? There is a big difference in reality and I am going to get into that. I have my facts and figures here on that, I say to you.

Here we go. The real GDP growth of 4.7 per cent in 2000 is expected to lead all provinces for the third consecutive year. Again, when you look at the gross domestic product and we try and compare it to other provinces, a true picture is not being given here. We are looking at it in seclusion and not what has actually happened with respect to the past number of years on where we were and how low we were and where we are going.

With respect to the GDP, just in passing, we are not progressing as fast as the other provinces. The other provinces are far ahead of us and I will address that in due course, in my figures.

Health care is the top priority. Mr. Speaker, this is a farce.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thirty-one point seven million dollars is all that is shown in the Budget (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I know, that is what is in the Estimates, $31.7 million, but look at it. Just to give you an example of the trickery - the word I am going to use very often in this speech today with respect to the Budget - just listen to this. It says here under one of the bullets, under health facilities - the Member for Ferryland, I know, will correct me if I am wrong on this - that: Work continues on construction of facilities in Gander, Old Perlican, Fogo, Bonne Bay, Stephenville, Grand Falls-Windsor and Grand Bank. It says work continues on construction in Grand Bank, but I was speaking to someone the other day and the facility in Grand Bank is not even started yet. It says: Work continues. That is stretching it. It is semantics. Nothing, not a piece of soil, no excavator. There is nothing done yet, and they are here trying to give the impression that that building is under construction; and that permeates this whole Budget, Mr. Speaker.

Now health care as the top priority. I have to go back to the federal budget on this. We had the federal Budget 2000 come down. What had happened the night of the budget? I remember looking at the Budget on television and we had the Minister of Finance saying what a great budget the federal Budget was. They had a little bit of problem with health, but other than that it was a good budget. Shortly after on Newsworld, I think it was, we had the Premier of the Province disagreeing completely with the Minister of Finance.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) not true.

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, I will get you copies of it, (inaudible), Mr. Speaker.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) copies (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: How much money are we getting for health care from Ottawa?

MR. TULK: Not enough (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Not nearly enough. I agree, I say to the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: You agree with me. How much (inaudible)?

MR. J. BYRNE: It is frightening, I say to the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal, that you think you and I are agreeing. I say you should give it some more thought.

What is going on here, what we have seen over the past number of years - and this needs to be cleared up - is that we saw the federal government cut as much as $125 million a year from the CHST, and they are talking about giving us back $11 million a year over the next four years. Eleven million dollars versus $125 million per year. It's a joke. This Administration, the Minister of Finance and the Premier, should be highly insulted, they should be offended, they should be rip-roaring mad. Here they are willing to accept this, $11 million a year compared to $125 million.

With respect to the trickery of this Budget, what is this Administration doing? They are taking four years again, the quick fix, four years up front. I think it is working out now to be $43.8 million or $42.8 million of the CHST for health care this year, putting it into the -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Okay, $43.8 million is what I said. It is close enough. Did you ever hear tell of rounding off figures in high school or in grade II or III or anything like that?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh yes, you need not worry.

Mr. Speaker, anyway, they are taking that quick fix again to try to give the impression that the Budget is balanced. If we look at previous years, from memory, I think it was Term 29 last year and they took in the tens of millions of dollars, I am not quite sure of the figures.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: How much? The year before. Tens of millions of dollars will not be there next year. The CHST, $40-something million, will not be there next year.

The South Coast ferry system -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I don't care. It is a Liberal administration. He is trying to pass it on like this government so often does. I would say to the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal and the Government House Leader, it will soon be time. You are in power for eleven years and it soon will end, by the way, thank God, but it will soon be time for this Administration to take responsibility for their actions and their inaction or non-action, I say to the minister. How long are you going to go back?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I have to save my voice. I will gauge that.

How far is this Administration going to go back? How far? One comment today was: Why don't you go back to the Commission of Government? As a matter of fact, this past weekend there was a - I will not say symposium, but there was a get-together with a number of people talking about the Amulree report which led to that. I wanted to attend it but I couldn't. I would have loved to have attended that.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I am telling you, I would have because I know where I would have been back before pre-Confederation days if I was involved in politics.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) Commission of Government, all right.

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

MR. TULK: You (inaudible) Commission of Government, that is where you would have been. (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I wonder. I would have been, there is no doubt in my mind. I think I would have been one of the ones that would have been there fighting for Newfoundland, I can guarantee you that. Just imagine giving up a country, giving up their own democracy. Unreal.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Was that a good deal? I say to the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal: When he asked Canada to join us, was that a good deal? So, where would you be? You would be back with Joey and the boys.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Where would I be?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, where?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, misconception. That is what they wanted you to believe, I say to you. In rural Newfoundland, according to what was going on this weekend - if you were listening this weekend - some communities in rural Newfoundland did not even know the depression was on.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

MR. TULK: They have blinkers on (inaudible), 20-20 hindsight (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, right.

With respect to health - I will get back to health - $135 million a year cut from the Liberal cousins in Ottawa, in CHST, giving us back $11 million.

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Walsh): The hon. the Government House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. TULK: I cannot believe that a member would sit in this Legislature and stand up and say that he would have been part of the Commission of Government, that he would have been part of that crew that said we should not join Confederation. Now, we know there is one here. We know there is one there from Placentia & St. Mary's, and I suspect that he was a closet anti-Confederate. Now I know. He has finally gotten up and said it. There are two anti-Confederates still left in this Legislature.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair appreciates the comments but there is no point of order.

MR. EFFORD: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have to use this opportunity just to see if I clearly understood what the hon. member said in his remarks. Did he say that most people in Newfoundland and Labrador didn't know that we had a depression? Is that what you said, that most people living in Newfoundland and Labrador didn't know we had a depression? You actually said that? If you did, then I have to question your stability.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I have to address those two points. For the Government House Leader's information, I wasn't even born until 1951. He was the one who said that I would be an anti-Confederate. He was the one who said that. I didn't say that.

With respect to the Minister of Fisheries' comment: yes, I will have to explain it twice for him. He needs things said to him two and three times for it to sink in and for him to be able to comprehend it. What I said was that there were some communities in Newfoundland - some - that did not feel that the depression was on. He should pay attention and not get all excited and exercised.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You didn't hear what I said?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible). I never do that.

MR. J. BYRNE: I said to you that I wasn't born in the days of pre-Confederation. I was born in 1951. In the meantime, I have read a lot about it, I can guarantee you that, leading up to it, and I know they were some very interesting times. As a matter of fact - I shouldn't even admit this - my parents loved Joey. They loved Joey until I ran in politics and they saw the light. They saw the light when I ran, and they marked a big X for Jack, no problem there.

AN HON. MEMBER: The Jack attack.

MR. J. BYRNE: I haven't gotten into a Jack attack yet but I will build up to it maybe. It depends on how it is going by 4:45 or 5:00. We will see, alright. I have to save my voice.

Back to the health care, I want to talk about that $135 million a year again. We have this administration taking $43.7 million -

MR. TULK: I will tell you one thing, Jack. It is a lot better to listen to you (inaudible) over there.

MR. J. BYRNE: You are going to be hearing a lot less. I have so many notes with me, really, I am telling you.

They are taking $43.7 million, a one-shot fix this year in health care. If you talk to the Member for Ferryland, the health critic, who knows more about health than anyone else in this Province - especially people sitting in this House, I can guarantee you that - if you talk to him and get the facts and figures, you will know that the amount of money they are saying they are putting into health care, they are not putting in.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: One hundred and thirty-six million, but $57 million of that -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: He is over in the corner.

Fifty-seven million is over three years and it is for capital works, capital expenditures, construction and what have you. Let's go back to Trans City. We have hospitals constructed, and some are partially occupied. I think, Loyola, some are not even occupied.

MR. SULLIVAN: What is that?

MR. J. BYRNE: Trans City, the hospitals.

MR. SULLIVAN: There are ten empty beds in the St. Lawrence one. Almost half the beds in Burgeo are not utilized.

MR. J. BYRNE: One hospital with ten beds not occupied.

MR. SULLIVAN: Out of forty.

MR. J. BYRNE: Out of forty.

MR. SULLIVAN: In the long-term care facility in St. Lawrence, they have only opened, over the last several years, thirty out of forty beds.

MR. J. BYRNE: It is shocking, Mr. Speaker.

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point or order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) Member for Ferryland, the Opposition House Leader, from interrupting his colleague down there and let him make his speech. It is terrible what he is doing to him.

MR. SULLIVAN: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: To the point or order, the hon. the Member for Ferryland.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, the Member for Cape St. Francis asked questions and he wanted some input, didn't he? I am just obliging him. If the Government House Leader keeps standing up, we are going to give that critic a long break and he is going to want to speak for weeks on this Budget.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order but the Chair has to agree that he is enjoying the comments of the Member for Cape St. Francis and probably would like to hear the comments that he has, uninterrupted.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad and I am delighted that you are enjoying my comments; but I hope that not only are you enjoying them, but that members on the other side of the House are also learning from my comments.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) making a note of everything you are saying, and it will be given to every minister of the Crown..

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you.

Yes, I did ask the Member for Ferryland. Every now and then I will refer to him when I am speaking about health care because, as I said, the new Minister of Health and the previous Minister of Health and the previous, previous Minister of Health know nothing compared to that man, and the facts and figures.

AN HON. MEMBER: Jack, you are not up again?

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, I am, I say to you. I have a lot to say, there is no doubt about that, and I am going to say it. I have been looking forward to this.

AN HON. MEMBER: There is no one going to stop you, Jack, is there? They may slow you down (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: There is only going to be one thing stop me before I say what I have to say, and that is this throat. If that gives out -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I am handling it. I already have this arranged with the Pages, to take care of this.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Okay, no problem.

With all of these points of order on this side of the House, as I said, I have unlimited time and kind of appreciate these points of order because it gives me a break, there is no doubt about that, so go for it, but I will get my points out. You may deflect me, you may deter me for a little period of time, but I will get my points out.

With respect to health care again, and how much money actually is being spent this year, they are saying they are putting $136 million in health care but in actual fact - it would lead people to believe that it is this year, but that is over a three year period. Fifty-seven million of that is not going to help Joe Blow or Tommy Toe or whomever, to speed them up, to speed up the long waiting lines.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I was just pointing all over the place. That won't do anything to shorten up the waiting lines for heart surgery, or anything like that. They are talking about $57 million over three years for hospitals, construction and what have you. I hope that in due course this government will learn from the mistakes of Trans City.

The new Minister of Health is there now, and he was there -

AN HON. MEMBER: What did you learn (inaudible)? That (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, there was no mistake all right. What did the court decide? How much extra are you going to have to pay out? It was criminal. That is what it was and now I have the court case to back me up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SULLIVAN: No, he didn't say that. He said what you said - the report (inaudible) was (inaudible), was it?

MR. J. BYRNE: What?

MR. SULLIVAN: What they did was criminal. You did not say they were criminals, did you?

MR. J. BYRNE: No, the report. No, I am talking about the court cases.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: I will get it. Do you want me to read from the report?

AN HON. MEMBER: What report?

MR. J. BYRNE: The court decision.

Mr. Speaker, I told you I was prepared. There is a degree of accuracy. I would say there is more than a degree; there is a good degree of accuracy.

Next, $1.2 billion allocated to operate the health care system in 2000. Now here is a factor that I want to talk about. This Administration is talking about how it is putting more into health care now than it was putting into health care two or three years ago. If you look at the Budget, under health care, if you look at the Estimates - I have it here - if you look at the bottom line, yes, in fact, there may be a few more bucks there on the bottom line, but what they do not say to the public is that that department has taken in other responsibilities over the past few years. Trickery.

MR. TULK: Jack, don't point that at me (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Trickery. All you have to pray is that I do not point that at you. You better pray that I don't point that at you.

MR. TULK: I don't have to pray for that. I know you are too much a gentleman for that.

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, I know.

Again, I am going to defer and just get side commnets from the health critic. We have the Department of Health taking -

MR. GRIMES: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

I am listening very intently to the words being spoken by the Opposition finance critic. I know he, like others on that side of the House, want to be accurate in their statements. In fact, the estimates that we compared for the new Department of Health and Community Services are compared to the old Department of Health plus the services that were moved over from the Department of Human Resources and Employment. The base budget for the old Department of Health was $903 million. The base budget that we are comparing to is $998 million because $95 million worth of services were moved over from another department and are accounted for in every document presented by the government. I know he wants to acknowledge that instead of suggesting what he just did, in error, that we are comparing something different. I know he wants to tell the truth.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair does not recognize the comment as a point of order but certainly a point of clarification.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, I say to the Minister of Health, for the break.

With respect to figures, I know what this government has been doing over the years. I know what the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal tried to do today. I know what the Minister of Health is trying to do. In actual fact, what I am saying here is that the new department is taking responsibilities from Human Resources with respect to child protection and youth and what have you, so they are not putting more money in health. As a matter of fact, they are putting in a few bucks to try and make it look good. As I said, robbing Peter to pay Paul and all these kinds of things. What they are not doing is putting in nearly enough money for health care.

This is another point I will make. I remember our leader and the critic for health standing in this House of Assembly asking questions to the previous minister. The word that was thrown back at us all the time is fearmongering. What do we see lately when we had the new Minister of Health take over? We saw a new tactic from him and the Premier. All of a sudden we are in a crisis in health care in this Province. It took us three years to sink that into the skulls of the members on that side of the House. Finally, we see the Premier of the Province, because it is politically expedient, go up along and now he is going to be ‘Captain Canada' for health care? A man who sat around the Cabinet table when there was $125 million cut from Ottawa, who was a member of Prime Minister Chrétien's Cabinet -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) your speech.

MR. J. BYRNE: I will get that for you in three or four weeks' time when we have the Hansard ready.

MR. TULK: I got this one.

MR. J. BYRNE: When I am finished, in a couple of weeks' time, and they have time in Hansard to type it and print it, we will get you a copy of it.

We saw the Premier of this Province going up along. When the federal Budget was coming down he was up in Ottawa trying to get his picture on television, up along with the national television stations, the stations up along in the mainland. He is trying to say now that he is going to be ‘Captain Canada' for health care when he was the one who approved it, condoned it, said nothing about it and said that we were fearmongering. Then he got a new minister, the spin doctor himself, because the previous minister was getting too much of a hard time from our critic and figured that the new minister could spin it back.

I will say to the present Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, the former Minister of Health, that I hope in her new portfolio she enjoys it because she is a different woman in this House of Assembly. She is a different woman. She used to come in here and sit down when she was Minister of Health and she would not get up and mingle around, go around or anything like that. Now she is up going around all over the place when the House is in, which is good to see.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Am I mingling with you crowd?

MR. J. BYRNE: I never said you were mingling with me. I never said that. Listen to what I am saying. Pay attention. All I ask is pay attention. You are mingling around. You were over looking at the Mace the other day and you were having that explained to you. You were up talking to your colleagues on the other side of the House. It is good to see. I will only suggest one thing to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. The previous Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, I have to say, I will give him credit, I found him to be pretty good to deal with with respect to municipal issues. I only hope that the present minister will be half as -

MR. SULLIVAN: So now you are his critic again.

MR. J. BYRNE: I'm his critic again, yes. That is it. We all have our crosses to bear, I say to the Member for Ferryland.

I am going to get back to the issue with respect to the Premier now trying to be ‘Captain Canada.' I was watching a show, by the way, last week on television. It was a special done by CBC and Here and Now, I think, with respect to the Premier and his political ambitions up along.

MR. TULK: What are they?

MR. J. BYRNE: What are they? Sure, everyone knows what they are. He would love to be Prime Minister.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible). Would you support him?

MR. J. BYRNE: Would I? Would I support him for Prime Minister? I really don't support him being Premier of the Province.

MR. TULK: Would you support him in the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada?

MR. J. BYRNE: The present?

MR. TULK: I would not expect you to vote for him in an election (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Just as a general statement, I say to the Government House Leader, I would not be opposed to a Newfoundlander being prime minister of the country.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I'll go no further than that, okay, but that doesn't mean -

MR. TULK: I would have voted for John Crosbie (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I would, too. Oh yes, I would have preferred him over the present premier though.

Back to the health care and what is going on -

AN HON. MEMBER: Is this your maiden speech, Jack?

MR. J. BYRNE: My maiden speech? Where have you been the past four years? What I told you was that I had to respond to the Budget speech again. Do I have to explain it to you three or four times like I had to for the Minister of Fisheries?

Anyway, Mr. Speaker -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Look, I am up an hour, Mr. Speaker, and I only got to the first page so far of that. I have this to go through yet.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I have been looking forward to this, I will tell you that, now.

Here it is: The cumulative increase in the health care budget over the past five years is $516 million. Mr. Speaker, when we know that Ottawa has cut $125 million over the past few years, which works out to be about $500 million, that means there has been an increase of $1 billion from the Province for health care. Not likely.

Let me see here. The total value committed by the government for capital spending for new health facilities, renovations of existing facilities and equipment is $433.5 million. That sounds like a lot of money to me. I do not know where they are getting it. It said: In this Budget alone $135.8 million in new spending is committed by this government to health care in the Province. That is what I was talking about earlier, $135.8 million. You would think that $135.8 million is in this year. Not so, not by any stretch of the imagination. No. It is $40-some million and they are getting that from Ottawa.

We had the person from St. John's Health Care Corporation on, I think Mr. Peddle his name was, and he said, before the Budget came down: If we receive $100 million we would not waste one penny of it. We need every cent of it, and they are talking about putting in $30-some million? It is not even going to address the deficit of the health care in this Province.

I have to say I truly hope that the Premier, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Health - by the way, the Minister of Health said they were taking a gamble on that $43.7 million - but I do hope with all my heart, and sincerely, that they are successful in negotiating with the Prime Minister and Paul Martin, or whoever it is, to get more money for health care in this Province because we are in desperate need.

I have an individual who phoned me the other day who is waiting for an MRI, who has a growth on her back. She is very concerned, and they have to wait until September for an MRI. September! The doctor marked urgent on it so what do you need to get in to have an MRI? Last fall, I had an individual in his seventies contact me, from down in the middle of my district. He had to have an MRI done and it was delayed. This was back in, I think it was, October, and they were going to have to wait until January or February. Anyway, between the jigs and the reels, they got in in the fall. He had a tumor and it was operated on within forty-eight hours. Just imagine if that individual had to wait for five or six months. That is how urgent it was and how serious it was.

We have health care, and we have a new tactic by this Administration basically trying to twist it back on us on this side of the House all the time. You know, trying to say that we are confused, and that one person is saying we are not spending enough and someone else is saying we are spending too much, and that someone else is saying we have a deficit more than what they are predicting and what have you. I will get into that in due course, but the amount of money that this Administration is wasting and has wasted and will continue to waste unless something is done about it is incredible.

First, the court cases. I have them all listed there. I will get into the details of them, but I am only trying to make some general comments today to get me started on the Budget speech. As I said, we have many millions of dollars being wasted by this Administration. It is very serious, and until this Liberal government decides to start taking responsibility for their actions and still trying to put it back to ten years ago, eleven years ago, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, that is when we might start getting somewhere. Or, by the way, in another eighteen months down the road we will be into another election, I suppose.

AN HON. MEMBER: How long?

MR. J. BYRNE: Another eighteen months.

AN HON. MEMBER: Provincial election?

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, because let's look at it -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, maybe. I will say maybe. I came here in 1993, and up to February 1999, in less than six years, we had three elections. So what does that tell you?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) six elections in a matter of ten years.

MR. J. BYRNE: I pity you.

MR. TULK: Three of those - four of those - involved that crowd over.

MR. J. BYRNE: Well, times change. So, in actual fact, what the Government House Leader is saying is that two wrongs make a right.

MR. TULK: No, I didn't say (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, that is the impression you gave, that two wrongs make a right.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Is that right?

Here we have equipment under health care, for the good of our people. I know what would be good for the good of our people, if we could defeat you guys.

Equipment, $54 million committed over three years for new and improved health care technologies. This is desperately needed, I can't knock it, and it is great to see, but again, over three years. That leaves $18 million a year for technologies.

When you look at the cost of equipment for health care, you take MRIs, CAT scans, all kinds of X-Ray equipment, all of these are fairly expensive stuff. When you have a hospital being constructed in there, the Janeway, and all new equipment that is going to have to go in there... As a matter of fact, I was speaking to some of the people who work at the Janeway not long ago, and they have old equipment. It was on the agenda to give them new equipment, but it is quite likely off the table now.

I remember when the Janeway was first announced, and it was going to $60 million. It went to $80 million, then to $100 million, then to $120 million. That was a year-and-a-half ago when the PAC did a public hearing on the St. John's Health Care Corporation, and that did not include equipment.

Again, I remember three years ago in this House of Assembly, the Member for Ferryland questioning where it was going to go, how much it was going to cost. It was fearmongering, not accurate, or whatever the case might be. We were right again.

It says here: New equipment will be purchased for all regions of the Province.

One thing, though, I would admit to with respect to the Budget, it was good to see those two new dialysis machines in two new locations -

MR. SULLIVAN: Two new locations.

MR. J. BYRNE: Out in Clarenville there was one, wasn't it?

MR. SULLIVAN: In Clarenville and St. Anthony.

MR. J. BYRNE: It is great to see that the people will have access to those dialysis machines in those regions, in those areas.

I have a friend who is on dialysis frequently. It is hard enough doing it, let alone having to travel probably two or three times a weeks to have that service. I will give credit there, there is no doubt about that.

Health care professionals; we say: we have $600,000 to provide incentives to graduating nurses who commit to work in the Province.

Now, this was supposed to be a great step forward. It was a step forward, there is no doubt about that, $600,000 to provide incentives to graduating nurses who commit to work in the Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: See, you have to listen to what I am saying. I have to repeat it again. I am saying that this is supposed to be a great step forward. I said that it is a step forward, but not a great step forward. Do you agree with that?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, yes. What we would have done was, we would have started listening to the people of the Province years ago when they started pointing out the problems, I say to the Government House Leader.

We have $2.1 million budgeted for new salaried physicians in priority areas. From what I understand, I think the federal government is talking about taxing these doctors who do locums and what have you. That is a threat upon health care itself, and the services available to the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: Jack, I was out to a meeting. Could you repeat what you have already said?

MR. J. BYRNE: Start again?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, start again. Could you start again? The Minister of Forestry and I missed all of that. Could you repeat it all?

MR. J. BYRNE: I am only on the second page of this.

Under High Priority Programs, $6.2 million is allocated to enhance the cardiac surgery program. From what I understand, that is not going to be nearly enough to do what needs to be done. I know we were supposed to be sending so many people out of the Province for heart surgery, and that was supposed to basically alleviate or shorten the lineups, but it hasn't. We know, for some reason or other, I think the rate of heart surgery is increasing all the time, the required heart surgeries. I don't know if it is because of the diet.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Go on out of the House if you don't want to listen to me, I say to the Minister of Fisheries.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I say to the so-called President of Treasury Board - the so-called President, because whenever you are asked a question in the House either the Minister of Finance has to go down and tell you the answer or the Premier has to give you some direction as to what to say.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: It is true. Don't talk about me being interesting or not interesting, I say to the President of Treasury Board. Don't be sarcastic with me.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TULK: That is not like you, Jack, getting on with (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: If I thought it was coming from the heart, I would say I was sorry. Is it coming from the heart?

MR. TULK: No.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, see, there you go.

MS THISTLE: You haven't asked me a question yet.

MR. J. BYRNE: Not true, I say to the President of Treasury Board.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I have asked you questions and I didn't get an answer so there is no point in asking.

They have $570,000 for two new community-based dialysis programs in Clarenville and St. Anthony. I have addressed that. Good move, I say to the Minister of Finance.

There is $3.3 million in increased funding to improve the road ambulance program.

With respect to the road ambulance program, in rural Newfoundland we have seen lineups with ambulances coming up here trying to get more money. You have $3.3 million allocated, and I think they were expecting something like double that or triple it. I don't know how happy they will be, and I don't know how long this amount of money will last to alleviate the problems with respect to the ambulance services in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

What we did see over the past few years by this administration - in the years that they said there were no new taxes - were charges for ambulances from the Health Science Complex. Seventy-five dollars a trip, I think it was, one way. If someone came in on a given day to the Health Science Complex they had to pay $75. Take an example, someone from Torbay or Pouch Cove or Flatrock, if they came into the hospital it was $75; if they take them back it is another $75. That was a hidden thing. That is one of the budget's where they had no tax increases, but nail the people, nail the sick people anyway. If they can afford it or not, give it to them.

MR. TULK: What's that?

MR. J. BYRNE: Charges for ambulances.

MR. TULK: Was that Clyde?

MR. J. BYRNE: I can't believe the Government House Leader. Was that Clyde? I know that you were in the back bench up there, hitting your head off the wall when Clyde was here, but the Minister of Fisheries was here, the Minister of Forest Resources or whatever it is there now, the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Mines and Energy, the Minister of Health -

MR. TULK: They were all misguided.

MR. J. BYRNE: They were all misguided. They were all here. The same Minister of Fisheries was here. He is the one who supported this, saying the previous minister, the previous Premier - the Liberal administration is what the people have to start looking at. The way you think, what you say, what you do - two different things - proven over and over again.

MR. TULK: In other words, you are telling me (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I can give you examples but I won't. I could give you personal examples of what I am talking about, but I won't because I am waiting on something.

I am going to get off health care for now. Here is one. I am going to go right back to health care. I just saw the last one. It says $6 million approved for the purchase of a more modern air ambulance.

AN HON. MEMBER: Perfect.

MR. J. BYRNE: That is perfect, $6 million approved for the purchase of a more modern air ambulance. I have no problem giving credit where credit it due.

MR. TULK: Didn't you know that?

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, I knew, but I am responding to the Budget Speech. Did you know that?

MR. TULK: I thought you were surprised.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, but I am going to address it though. I am going to tell you - but we saw what happened up in the Northern Peninsula with the ferry going to Labrador.

MR. TULK: What was that?

MR. J. BYRNE: The tender process, where it went to court the other day and the judge said to the people who weren't successful: Sue them, get some money. That is what he said, basically.

MR. TULK: The judge said?

MR. J. BYRNE: Not in those words, but you can certainly interpret it that way. He said it was mishandled, it was wrong. The judge said this: You have other recourse now. I cannot overturn it. I can't -

MR. TULK: Did the judge also say (inaudible)

MR. J. BYRNE: Let me say, the judge said this - if I can remember right - I cannot overturn it because of the public factor and service to the public, and they are expecting this, but you have other recourse. What is that telling you? And, he gave courts costs. Ah, what is he saying boys? Interpret it.

Now what I am saying, we have $6 million allocated for a new modern air ambulance. So I am asking you, on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador - I am pleading with you - when you put this out, that you put out a proper tender, that you put out the proper specs on the tender, that you put out a proper time frame, and that you follow it and not change it ten days beforehand, I say to the minister.

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: He wants a rest. Also, let me assure the hon. gentlemen that this government will do everything that is right for the people of this Province and in the best interest of the people of this Province, whether it be spending their taxpayers' money or whatever. When the time comes to get an air ambulance - a brand new air ambulance - we are putting away the stuff that the PC Cabinet ministers wore out trouncing all over the Province and buying a new one.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What I say to the Government House Leader on that - that you are going to do what is fair and right for the people of the Province - that is what you are saying, but your history doesn't show it. I can guarantee you that. That is why I am bringing it up here today.

I said to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment that this is a good thing. I agree, it could be a good thing, as long as that $6 million doesn't cost us $12 million, like the ferry up in Labrador is going to cost twice as much down the road. I will predict that, too, that it is going to cost twice as much as it should have. The same thing with Trans City down there.

Let me tell you some stories. Let's talk about the Trans City deal and an extra $35 million and not one job created, I say to the Government House Leader. Let me talk about the Murray Premises. Let me talk about the Mobil construction company - and I will, by the way. Let me talk about the Mayor, Andy Wells, and how much you had to pay out there. Let me talk about the call centers, and how much you paid out there. Let me talk about the legal fees alone for all of these. Let me talk about the legal fees for Newfoundland Hydro. Let me talk about North West River, another million bucks out the window. Let me talk about the ferry in Labrador. Let me talk about the Auditor General's report and $60 million bucks. Let me talk about the Cabot Corporation. Let me talk about the staffing and another forty or fifty court cases coming. That is what I will be talking about. You talk about millions and millions of dollars wasted.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You will be begging by the time I am finished, because the truth hurts.

The Minister of Health just said: Bring back Harvey Hodder because Harvey Hodder tells the truth like I tell the truth - that is why - and he is going to know the truth hurts.

Get rid of that yellow tie, boy, it is blinding me over here.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: A minute? Not likely. No, in a week.

Now let's move on to my next page, I think it is the third page of the highlights, Educating our youth. Now, here is a beaut. Where is the Minister of Education? Oh, he is not here. Here are a few comments for the education of our youth. Trickery, as I use so often to describe this Budget; now we had the Minister of Finance up - and I had to laugh, Mr. Speaker. He said: In excess of 300 teaching positions will be reinstated for September 2000 at an annual cost of more than $15 million.

That is not really accurate by any stretch of the imagination. Three hundred teaching positions will be reinstated. What is happening here is a play on words. Remember I said, slight of hand? What you are hearing and what you are seeing is not what you get. Three hundred teaching positions will be reinstated.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Exactly. They are not really putting back in 300 teaching positions, Mr. Speaker. According to the formula they had, they said they could take out 408 teachers. Can you imagine, with the mess that the education system is in, in this Province today, created by that side of the House, that they were going to take out 408 teaching positions? It is alright to say that, but when you sit down and look at the geography of this Province, look at the schools in this Province, and the numbers where they are located and what have you, and to say you are putting back 300 teachers when you didn't take them out in the first place. Now, is that misleading or not.

What they are doing, in reality, what this administration is doing, is actually taking out of the system 108 teaching positions. That is the comparison you make. They are taking out 108 teaching positions compared to putting back 300. That again is the smoke and mirrors of this Budget, one of the smoke and mirrors of this Budget.

MR. TULK: Is it the smoke or the mirror?

MR. J. BYRNE: Whatever, I say to the Government House Leader.

Another bullet, government's $125 million investment in school construction or upgrades will continue.

That has been announced two or three times, by the way. It says $125 million will continue. How much of it has already been spent, I say to the Minister of Finance? There will be $38 million spent in 2000-2001 on eleven new school construction projects in all areas of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I have to give credit to the former Minister of Education -

AN HON. MEMBER: Who is that for?

MR. J. BYRNE: - the present Minister of Health, because he told me about two or three years ago that there would be money available for a new school in my district.

AN HON. MEMBER: You got it?

MR. J. BYRNE: I got it. In actual fact -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) Roger is a man of his word..

MR. J. BYRNE: He was. I have to give him credit for that, and the site has been selected. It has been approved by the town, the site itself. The survey work has been done on it. The topographic survey work has been done on it. The school specs have been done. Now, it took some time, by the way, because it was in an agricultural land freeze. It had to come out and had to be transferred and what have you. I have been talking to the minister - well, the minister confirmed it yesterday in the House of Assembly for me. The ADM put some pressure on, finally, to the various departments to get it started, and I have been told now that the occupancy date is September of 2001, and the people of Pouch Cove, Flatrock and Bauline so richly deserve that. They have been working on this for some ten to twelve years.

It started out, by the way, as a K-IX school, but the with the education reform the school board decided at the last minute that it should be a K-VI, which I didn't agree with and I still don't agree with, but that is life. At least they are getting a new school in the area for the children to attend, and hopefully we will see the equipment down there within the very near future. The engineer on the job is working on the drawings now. It has been awarded. I have been talking with the engineer with education and they tell me that tenders will be let in the very near future, which is good news for the people down in that district. For the whole education reform to come together in and around St. John's, the Northeast area, that zone there had to be addressed first.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Not bad. You need not worry, I only have another hour-and-a-half. I have been up an hour-and-a-half already.

With respect to this new school down my way, as I said, the school board said that area had to be addressed because a lot of the children were coming into various schools in St. John's from Pouch Cove, Flatrock, Bauline and Torbay. What will happen in September of 2001, that will be a self-contained area and the kids from Pouch Cove, Flatrock, Bauline and Logy Bay-Middle Cove-Outer Cove will be feeding into the Holy Trinity High School in Torbay, which is going to have some major work done there also, but it has to be done to be able to accommodate that area. The Minister of Education certainly confirmed that for us. That is not a problem.

Now, on page 22 it says: "...$12 million over three years is being allocated to address priority repairs and maintenance for existing schools...," primarily "...roof repairs and air quality initiatives." Again, $12 million over three years, roughly $4 million a year. If you look at it, you would think they are getting $12 million this year, when you take a quick glimpse or when you were listening to the Budget speech in the House last week.

I will tell you a school, I say to the Minister of Education, when we are talking about repairs -

MR. TULK: I have to go out (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, no need. I have lots of buddies on this side.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Good point. Anyway, $12 million over three years for school repairs -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: How come you spent so much money to get elected?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) What?

MR. SHELLEY: Yes boy, you did.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I would say.

With respect to the school in Outer Cove, St. Francis of Assisi, that school itself needs money. Actually, they took two classes out of it, sevens and eights, last year, but, I say to the Minister of Education, that school and the record of that school are second to none in the Province. They do need some major repairs. Believe it or not, Mr. Speaker, that school has portable classrooms down there that were put back there some twenty-five or thirty years ago, portable classrooms that were only going to be put there for two years. They are still utilizing them. As a matter of fact, I am having complaints now - and I will bring it up in the House of Assembly; and it is a wonder the parents in the area have not kicked up more - that the children in those portable classrooms are having problems with their breathing, having problems with headaches and what have you. I would say to the Minister of Education that she has to put the pressure on to make sure that the school in Pouch Cove and the extension to the high school in Torbay are completed by September 2001. The old portable classrooms in St. Francis need to be torn down, taken away, and that school needs some major renovations done. Hopefully the Minister of Education is paying attention.

MS FOOTE: Always.

MR. J. BYRNE: I have no doubt that she is. How is that?

Anyway, $5.2 million is provided for teacher -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Minister of Education has recently moved into my district. Now I think she might have some -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible) about a year-and-a-half.

MR. J. BYRNE: A year-and-a-half, yes, but I think she may have some ulterior motives for moving into my district. She said that she supported me in the last election, for starters. People just heard her saying it here on this side of the House.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I think she has some ulterior motives. No, I think she was looking around. She looked at St. John's North and she did not like the representation in the House of Assembly in St. John's North. She looked at a few other districts, and she said the best member that she can -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: No, she is not running against me. She is going to be running, I am hearing, federally. She is going to take on Norm. Is she going to take on Norm?

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Now you are talking. She wanted to live in the district and she is hoping beyond all hope that she is going to get my support.

MS FOOTE: Well, I supported you (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Anyway, we will see what happens. Only the future will tell.

The Budget says on page 20: "...$1.5 million has been allocated for the implementation of new curriculum in September..." 2000. Let me see here now. That is another one I am going to get onto. I would say to the Minister of Education that is a good thing, $1.5 million for new curriculum. There is no doubt about that. It depends on what the new curriculum will be, I would imagine. I have to say that in recent years, and it seems to me - and I don't want to slight anybody here now, to be honest with you - that there should be more effort - and I don't mean E-f-f-o-r-d and I don't mean -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, ‘t' not ‘d'. Not E-f-f-o-r-d. More effort put into the languages -

MR. EFFORD: Do the world a favour and sit down.

MR. J. BYRNE: I'm not doing you any favours.

The languages, because kids coming out -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon? No, I want them to be able to sit down and write a sentence and/or a paragraph.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You need never worry, I will be on no cruise with the Minister of Fisheries. He could not pay me enough. I would not go with him. I will not go with him. Thank God I wasn't there to be one of the ones who were a part of it to have to give to go with him.

AN HON. MEMBER: You are paying.

MR. J. BYRNE: I said earlier that he is going to end up buying it back, $3,400 bucks. Buy it back.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible), Jack.

MR. J. BYRNE: I am not worried about the polls. I am only worried about one poll and that is Election Day.

MR. SHELLEY: How much did you win by?

MR. J. BYRNE: I won by almost 2,200. It was 2,100 and something. That is the poll. How much did the Minister of Finance win by, I wonder? Three hundred and something?

AN HON. MEMBER: Not even 300 votes.

MR. J. BYRNE: We have $1 million provided to develop and implement a new Newfoundland and Labrador history course.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: What percentage? I would say it is probably one of the highest in the Province. How many people vote in your district now?

MR. ANDERSEN: Do you want me to tell you?

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes.

MR. ANDERSEN: We had (inaudible), and 1,223 cast their ballots. (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes. 1,223 voters. We have over 8,000. That is quite the difference, I say to the Member for Torngat Mountains. Over 12,000.

MR. SHELLEY: You had a high one, Jack. Sixty-eight hundred voted out of 7,800. (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: There you go, look at that. Yes, one of the highest in the Province.

One million dollars is provided to develop and implement a new Newfoundland and Labrador history course, as I said earlier. That is a good thing. It is great to see that we would put the course in the schools. There is no doubt about that. I will make a comparison about Newfoundlanders and how well informed we are with respect to our history and Canadian history compared to the United States. If you look at Rick Mercer on This Hour Has Twenty-Two Minutes, he was down in the States talking to would-be presidents, senators and what have you, and they don't even know where Canada is. They don't even know who the Prime Minister is. They don't know where it is located or anything like that.

MR. BARRETT: Do they know who Jack Byrne is?

MR. FRENCH: Yes they do, sure they do.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, can you do something with ‘Sir Gisborne of Bellevue'? The man is not even in his chair, for starters. He is over there not making a clue of sense, as usual.

MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible) trying to keep up with you.

MR. J. BYRNE: My son, I say to ‘Sir Gisborne,' you shall never, ever keep up with me. You never ever will.

One million dollars has been allocated by the Province in partnership with the National Literacy Secretariat to create a $2 million Literacy Endowment Fund. See, Mr. Speaker, how they play on words. One million dollars is allocated but they are talking about $2 million. The government is only putting in $1 million.

Here is one, just a side issue. We saw the trickery, the semantics and the play on words that permeates this Budget. The Janeway Hostel is going to cost $3.5 million, but what they are saying is: We are going to give them $1.5 million but they have to fund raise $2 million. The government is giving the impression out there that there is $3.5 million from government.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, you wouldn't do that. The Government House Leader is trying to put words in my mouth. He said: You know we wouldn't lie. I never accused them of lying.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, it is not. It is stretching the truth and twisting the facts - a big difference.

Now here we go again, the post-secondary system. It says, the cost of this freeze over the next three-year period is $36 million.

What they are saying here is that they are putting $36 million into it, but in actual fact you are talking about the extension, the two-year tuition freeze at the Memorial University, that is extended for another year. Not costing this -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, I am.

It is not costing this Province one cent, but they are giving the impression -

MR. EFFORD: The guy who said twenty-five and seven (inaudible) is sixty.

MR. J. BYRNE: The poor Minister of Fisheries. No wonder he got sucked in the other night. He is over there now trying to add up two or three figures to make them sixty. What grade did you go to, by the way? Did you get out of Grade VIII?

AN HON. MEMBER: Book three.

MR. J. BYRNE: Book three. What grade did he get into? He is trying to add up seven, seven and eight or something to make up sixty. I don't know what he is doing. Whatever it is, it is wrong.

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: I know the hon. gentleman doesn't mean to mislead the House. I am sure of that, just as sure as I am standing over here. I have to tell him, he must have misunderstood. What the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture was saying is that he is amazed at the new finance critic, who has replaced the Member for Waterford Valley, has taken away the position of the Member for Waterford-Kenmount. He is amazed that the hon. gentleman added up eighteen, seven and seven, then took 75 per cent of that and got $60 million. That is what he is amazed at.

MR. EFFORD: And he is the finance critic.

MR. TULK: He wonders what the new math is.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Malarkey, what that crowd is so good at. I say to the Government House Leader, you had better be careful.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you threatening the member?

MR. TULK: No, he is not threatening.

MR. J. BYRNE: Lighten up, I say, Sir Gisborne. I am only giving him a bit of free advice.

AN HON. MEMBER: Tell him you are struck amazed.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I am not struck amazed. I will never be struck amazed by that crowd, I can guarantee you that; but, Sir, you had better be careful because someone is after your job as Government House Leader, and he is creeping up on you.

MR. TULK: Remember what I told you last year, the polls I gave you because how good you were (inaudible). You will tell me (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I will tell you. I am telling you right now.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Get real. You know it is one of the ministers.

MR. TULK: Who is it?

MR. J. BYRNE: Are you sure you want to know, because he is a threat.

MR. TULK: Who is it?

MR. J. BYRNE: I am telling you now, he is after your job.

AN HON. MEMBER: He knows it, too.

MR. J. BYRNE: He is sucking in big time with the Premier. He is one of the ones - no, I won't say anything. I will fill you in.

AN HON. MEMBER: It is not the man of many suits, is it?

MR. J. BYRNE: Look behind you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: That is the man, and I will tell you why. The Premier wants someone in that chair who he - he trusts you, there is no doubt about that - but he wants someone there who can spin it out. There is no one here better in this House of Assembly who can spin it than that man over there, I can guarantee you that -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) do the job.

AN HON. MEMBER: If you keep it up, Jack, he is going to resign.

MR. J. BYRNE: - than the Minister of Health.

I am going to move on.

MR. TULK: He is that good at spinning stuff out that I am almost convinced I should go to the Premier and tell him to give him my job.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I wouldn't want him there, to be honest with you. We wouldn't get anything done. I think the Government House Leader and our House Leader, the Opposition House Leader, have a pretty good working relationship, although I have to address one point. In the last sitting of the House, I got the feeling that you were pretty red faced - I know you were red faced - you were pretty upset, and you were kind of threatening him. There were undertones of threat.

MR. TULK: About what?

MR. J. BYRNE: I don't know.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: What? There was a big issue going back and forth and you were bawling out at him: Do you want me to tell? Do you want me to tell?

MR. TULK: You have to do that once in awhile.

AN HON. MEMBER: How much time do you have, Jack?

MR. J. BYRNE: As much as I want.

Mr. Speaker, just give me a minute here now, if I can dig it up.

MR. TULK: Are you going to pull out his 500 Club card?

MR. J. BYRNE: No, worse than that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: Lame duck Premier. Do you remember that, last year? Do you remember that someone on that side sent this to me? Look. I was trying to figure out who sent it. The Minister of Finance, the present Minister of Finance, was sitting right there and he was the first one up. I will show you what he did, just for a second. He said: Mr. Premier, Mr. Premier, it wasn't me. That is what he did, just like that.

MR. MATTHEWS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance on a point of order.

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I have to reaffirm that it wasn't me, it wasn't me, it wasn't me..

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I said this before - there are a couple of initials on this, by the way. Do you remember when the Premier said last year in the media and what have you that he may not be around that long? Then we got this, someone trying to undermine him, one of the contenders for the leadership.

AN HON. MEMBER: I think you should have it fingerprinted.

MR. J. BYRNE: I was trying to figure out who it was. I saw something there but I couldn't really see it so I kind of highlighted it with a pencil. Sometimes when somebody is writing on something and you get the imprint underneath, well there is a big L there and on the other side there is an R. I am not sure if it is Roger or Lloyd.

MR. TULK: Do you know what that is? That is something left from the Liberal Reform Party.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, it is the wrong form. It is the wrong way around.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: It came across to me. I am not sure who this is. It could be Roger; it could be Lloyd. Maybe that is a G. It could be.

There is some animosity, undercurrents, on that side of the House. There is no doubt in my mind.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I can point out a few. Do you want me to point out a few to you?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I am going to continue on now. The next, under the highlights, is supporting -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I don't know. He figured he didn't have to work like me any more.

MR. TULK: I heard (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Is that right?

I will repeat, just for Hansard's purpose, the Government House Leader said that he thought Harvey was pretty upset when I replaced him as critic for finance. I can only say to the Government House Leader that I will repeat the words - I will repeat your own words: Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

With respect to that issue, on the point you just make to me, I will repeat your own words that you said here in this House earlier today: Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, he saw nothing.

Mr. Speaker, I have to get through these highlights today because I have so much on the go here.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Read what out?

MR. TULK: The highlights of the Budget.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I'm just responding.

Supporting our families is the next highlight, I say to you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. TULK: What page is that on?

MR. J. BYRNE: I do not know. Whoever put it together did not number the pages, you see.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) want you to see how (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: He must be invisible, I say to the Member for Topsail.

Supporting our families. Listen to this. The Budget says: "An additional $1 million has been allocated as an endowment to the School Children's Food Foundation..." I remember before the Budget came down the Premier, as he so often does -

MR. TULK: Jack, do you know what you asked me to do the other day?

MR. J. BYRNE: Do I know what I asked you to do the other day?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible). You do that. (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: No bribery in this House.

MR. TULK: No, that is not bribery.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, there are two issues. Which one are we talking about?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The big one or the small one?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I am not for sale.

Supporting our families. I wanted to the ask the Minister of Finance. It says: "$1 million has been allocated as an endowment to the School Children's Food Foundation..." As I said, the Premier last week was over in one of the schools, as he so often does, and I know that he causes horror throughout his executive and his staff and what have you, and you were going to announce $500,000 for the School Lunch Program. He said; Well, I am so impressed, $1 million.

So now I want to ask the question: Is that $1 million this year? I mean he announced $1 million. Is it this year, or is it $500,000 this year and $500,000 next year? Because one would believe when he said $1 million you were getting it this year, but when you read the Budget it is not here. It says $500,000 each year, and it still was not even clear with respect to that.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The thing is it is $1 million. Are they getting $1 million this year or are they getting $500,000 and $500,000?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I do not care where it goes. It is $1 million. If they get $1 million this year, they could be entitled to another $1 million next year, but if they get $500,000 this year, they are only going to get $500,000 next year. See the play, see the trickery?

Supporting our families: An additional $200,000 will be provided in 2001 to support sport in the Province. Mr. Speaker, big whoop.

MR. TULK: How much is that (inaudible)?

MR. J. BYRNE: How much were they getting before you guys took over? How much have you cut them over the past few years, I say to the Government House Leader?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Bull, bull, bull. I will tell you who started the deficit financing in this country, your former Prime Minister Trudeau. That is where it all started.

MR. TULK: Trudeau was never (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: He was the one who started deficit financing. He was, and you should know that. You are a big Trudeau fan, aren't you? Is there a book there on the desk the Minister of Forest Resources and Agrifoods is reading on Trudeau? He should know that.

MR. TULK: His name was Brian but it was not Brian Tobin.

MR. J. BYRNE: It was Pierre Elliot Trudeau.

MR. TULK: No.

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, read something about it. Read something and you might learn.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: My son, (inaudible). Pay attention and you might learn. What?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) mind that crowd

MR. J. BYRNE: Now that is something. Mr. Speaker, did you just hear the Government House Leader saying about his own people on his side of the House: Do not mind that crowd? That is shameful. Get up on a point of order, I say to the Minister of Health, and take him to task. Have a bit of guts, have a bit of gumption.

Supporting our communities. I got a look that time. I am going to sit down, I think. The Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs just gave me a hard look that time. Municipal operating grants are maintained at $21.5 million. By the way, we were in the Estimates Committee last night here from 7:00 to 9:30. I had a few questions to ask, not that many. We had a few. I am going to give the minister a compliment, now. It will not be too many, I can guarantee you.

The Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs was here last night sitting in that same seat that you are sitting in answering questions from this side of the House and she has only been Minister of Municipal Affairs for two months. Right? I have to admit this, she had her homework done. I will admit that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Do not get used to it.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: That is too bad. I cannot comment on that. Seriously, for a new minister that did not have the experience in the municipal background or what have you, she seemed to know and not only know, but she seemed -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) money out of her? I know what you are (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, I am not. I have not even met with her. She seemed to understand.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) that stadium (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Listen here, I do not worry about that stadium, that is handled.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: I can take it back, but I can tell you one thing. You know me well enough that if I did not mean it I would not say it.

AN HON. MEMBER: I (inaudible) you would.

MR. J. BYRNE: No, that is one thing that I do not do. No, sir, not at all.

AN HON. MEMBER: You actually admit what you said about the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I said she seemed to know what she was talking about. Not only that, she understood it.

MR. TULK: Now if I see that (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You will not see it this year.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I do not know. It is like this, boys. That has been on the go for twelve years. I won three elections without it and I can win three more. I have been committed to it for ten years, since I was mayor.

MR. TULK: I got elected first in 1979, June (inaudible). Do you know when I got elected the third time? April (inaudible), 1985.

MR. J. BYRNE: Let me tell you something. I say to the Government Leader this, and he knows it. What gets you elected - the first one is easy - but what gets you re-elected is your constituency work, what you do for the people in your district on an individual basis. The big items are great to have but the constituency work and working hard for your constituents -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Right on. That is what I am doing, but I am not giving up on that stadium, I can guarantee you that.

Supporting our communities: Municipal operating grants maintained at $21.5 million, but, Mr. Speaker, MOGs were up to $69 million when this crowd took over. Now we have $48 million cut. The municipalities in this Province are hurting, and they're hurting bad. The infrastructure in this Province is deteriorating.

I will tell you one thing, we have municipalities in this Province, and I have them in my district, and I was hoping... Take the Town of Torbay, that is looking at refinancing and what have you, and they have a lot of debt paid down.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, it all comes in.

With respect to Pouch Cove, for example, in debt, owed a lot of money, and they need a lot of work down there. A lot of work is required in the Town of Pouch Cove under water and sewer and what have you, but during the situation - and we need some debt relieve for the Town of Pouch Cove. I am hoping that the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs will take that under consideration this year with respect to, "An additional $5 million provided for the Debt Relief Program to assist municipalities achieve financial stability."

Mr. Speaker, $5 million is not nearly enough but we had to have - I want all municipalities in this Province to be treated the same and have certain criteria put in place, and if they can meet it they would get it.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I will explain to you one of these days what is going on, I say to the Government House Leader. Yes, come talk to me later. Remember to do that.

It says, "20 million Municipal Capital Works program is approved for 2000-2001." It goes on and talks about $106 million last year which was mostly the federal money anyway, the infrastructure program, but $20 million is not nearly enough.

Now I was really, really disappointed with the federal budget on - when do you want me to stop? When? Whatever, I don't care.

An additional $5 million is provided for debt relief. Anyway, $20 million on Municipal Capital Works, and I talked about the federal budget. I was really hoping - pardon?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: When? I am figuring it is going to be Thursday, Monday, maybe Tuesday.

The Canada-Newfoundland Infrastructure Program, a great program, I was really looking forward to it.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, this one, the Highlights? I only got another page or so. I have to talk about Labrador yet, too, by the way, this evening.

The Canada-Newfoundland Infrastructure Program -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I will explain that.

The Canada-Newfoundland Infrastructure Program is a good program, and I was really disappointed that the federal government did not put a lot of money into it this year. As a matter of fact, they put nothing into it. I brought this up last night at the Estimates Committee meetings, that if you look at the per capita basis - by the way, Mr. Speaker, again I have to attack the Premier.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: What? Which one?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No. You can chew it all you want.

Mr. Speaker, the Government House Leader, I asked him a question the other day, on Thursday, with respect to the Auditor General's report. Five times he came to me afterwards, that afternoon. I asked him questions today on the Auditor General's report, and he has been after me half a dozen times since. That tells me something.

MR. TULK: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Smith): Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. TULK: I wanted to give him another rest, but I want to tell the hon. gentleman why I am asking him to do it. I want to clarify for him exactly what the Auditor General said, and I want to show him where all the files came from.

MR. J. BYRNE: You want to show me where eight, seven and seven adds up to sixty do you?

MR. TULK: I want to show you where all the files came from. I want to show you who is responsible for them. There is a good history lesson in it; I can tell the hon. gentleman that.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I said, the Premier used those words yesterday when he was responding to something on this side of the House: Methinks thou doth protest too much.

I am on to something here, and when I get into it, it is not only that department. I am going to look at the other departments too. I am going to see how much money has been spent in your -

MR. TULK: Where? In my district?

MR. J. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

I am going to make comparisons, I say to the minister. I am going to make comparisons. When I sit down and do a good analysis on the full financial analysis of all the districts, buddy, look out then.

MR. TULK: My district?

MR. J. BYRNE: All the districts.

MR. TULK: Jack, do you know what you should do?

MR. J. BYRNE: What?

MR. TULK: You should call (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the Canada-Newfoundland Infrastructure Program, I am talking about $20 million this year under Municipal Capital Works Program.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Government House Leader is after interjecting a number of times and I don't know why he doesn't want me to go here. Obviously he doesn't want me to go here with respect to the Canada-Newfoundland Infrastructure Program. Federally, they gave us no money this year.

This administration, the present Premier, was in Ottawa when they changed the formula on this, by the way. It has gone to a per capita basis. This Province, if they use the per capita basis for the calculation of how much money we are going to get out of $45 million, it is $2 million or $3 million, a joke.

MR. TULK: Jack, you are wrong on that. (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Well, if it was done after he left, where was the Premier, the first spokesman, the main spokesman for the Province, and where was the Minister of Finance, and where was the Minister of Municipal Affairs of the day? Not protesting. Why weren't they up in arms over this?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: No, they weren't, and I will tell you why. Lots of stuff is happening and I am going to get into it, too, down the road with these one-shot deals. I am going to be talking about Churchill Falls, I am going to be talking about the transmission line, and I am going to be talking about Voisey's Bay and what is going on.

MR. TULK: Jack, you know how it is. You have had enough experience (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the Government House Leader is saying I have enough experience in politics with the Mulroney years. Let me tell the Government House Leader this: I was involved with no party up until 1993. I wasn't involved, I didn't run for anybody. By the way - I will announce this - back in 1989 they wanted me to meet with the former Premier, Clyde Wells, to see if I would run Liberal down my way.

MR. TULK: You should have.

MR. J. BYRNE: They wanted me to, back in 1989. No, Sir, I couldn't do it. It is not in my body; it is not in my blood.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You are giving the former Premier quite a compliment there; not that I would agree with you, I tell you that.

The Premier, if he wasn't up in arms on this issue with respect to the -

AN HON. MEMBER: His buddy.

MR. J. BYRNE: Your buddy, your cohort.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

AN HON. MEMBER: That is poetic justice.

MR. J. BYRNE: Poetic justice.

To say that the Premier and the Minister of Municipal Affairs at the time would not stand up and fight for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador with respect to that formula, and we are going to get a measly $2 million this year if that per capita formula is followed.

I have to say to the Minister of Municipal Affairs, she said last night - I picked her up on this and I asked her a question with respect to not following that formula - that we may get more on a needs basis. If that is the case, it would be great.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Everything in due course, I say to the Government House Leader. We shall see.

I will tell you what is happening here now with health care federally, and I will tell you what is happening here with the Municipal Infrastructure Program. They are waiting for a budget, not a budget but a mini-budget basically, just before an election call, a federal election call. You are going to see money pumped into health care in this Province and right across the country. You are going to see money pumped into municipal infrastructure just before an election to try and buy the votes. That is what is coming down the tubes, and they are so good at it. Health care -

MR. TULK: Jack, (inaudible) Tory.

MR. J. BYRNE: And proud of it. Just for the record, so Hansard will be able to pick it up, the Government House Leader said I am speaking like a Tory, and I will say I am proud of it.

I would say, in reality, back in those days, knowing what I know about it and what I read about it with respect to pre-Confederation - and he is trying to get me to admit to something. I know that. I could very well have been an anti-Confederate at that time, but once we were joined to Canada in 1949 and we become a Confederation and part of Canada, I would be working my butt off for the country of Canada and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what would happen, I say to that.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) if you had your druthers today (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I will tell you this. The Government House Leader is asking me if I would like to take Newfoundland out of the country. I would like to take the Government House Leader out of the country, that is what I would like to do, for a long time.

AN HON. MEMBER: Deport him.

MR. J. BYRNE: Deport him.

MR. SHELLEY: No re-entry.

MR. J. BYRNE: No re-entry. Take away his passport and he would not be able be get back in. Thank God for that. Wouldn't that be nice?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I'm only pulling your leg, I say to the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: I am not scared (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I know. I would say you would, yes, right.

Mr. Speaker, I will go back to the infrastructure. For some reason or other, the Government House Leader doesn't want to speak about that, because I believe he is embarrassed, I believe the Premier is embarrassed - and should be - and the Minister of Municipal Affairs should be embarrassed, because of the amount of money their federal buddies, their kissing cousins in Ottawa, are not giving to this Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) want some.

MR. J. BYRNE: Do I want some? In my district, I could take $50 million or $60 million and spend it overnight and there wouldn't be a penny wasted.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Sure, I do, $50 or $60 million.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) typical Tory.

MR. J. BYRNE: Typical Tory. Because I will tell you why. No, I won't go there. Not now.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You know what I am thinking, do you?

Investing in infrastructure. What a joke. They have $72 million, and it will be spent on improvements to the Trans-Canada Highway, major trunks and provincial roads. Have you had any discussions recently with the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Did you? Did he figure that was enough? He has $16 million.

MR. TULK: Listen. You know the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation will never say he has enough.

MR. J. BYRNE: Sixteen million dollars he got for local roads. He got $57 million going on the Trans-Labrador Highway. Again, they are playing with numbers there. He needs $380 million for local roads, I say to you. Sixteen million dollars. What a joke. For a starter, how much of that is going to go on engineering costs?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Too much. The cost of paving went up. You are looking at $12 million. Where is it going to be spent? I am telling you now, Mr. Speaker, I better get enough for my district this year. I didn't get it last year. Twelve million dollars for the whole Province, and there are forty-eight districts. Do you know that in the District of Cape St. Francis, right on the border of St. John's, there are dirt roads?

MR. TULK: Yes, so what. What difference is that (inaudible) in Baie de Verte?

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, and it shouldn't be. Every road should be paved. Fifty years, and the Government House Leader talking about Confederation -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) he said: Right next to St. John's. You wouldn't know but there was (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Government House Leader was talking about Confederation. We have fifty years of Confederation and there are roads in this Province still not paved after fifty years of Confederation. Shameful.

AN HON. MEMBER: Tory waste.

MR. J. BYRNE: Tory waste. Listen here, let me talk about waste, let me talk about Churchill Falls, for example, let me talk about a few rubber plants, hockey stick plants, chocolate factories. We were $40 million in the black when Joey took over. He had millions of dollars pumped into the Province.

Let me tell you this. If there had to be a Liberal government at the time, if there had to be a Tory government at the time, if there had to be a NDP government of the day in 1949, no matter who it was, with the kind of money that was pumped into here in 1949 and in the 1950s they would have been heroes. No matter who it was, they would have been heroes.

Mr. Speaker, we have something here I wanted to talk about, a commitment to Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: What?

MR. TULK: I (inaudible). Now, be quiet (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I was setting you up a minute ago but you would not be listening to me.

The Member for Labrador West said I would not know anything about Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: That is not what he said, was it?

MR. J. BYRNE: That is what he said. What kind of disrespect is shown in this House of Assembly to a member, Mr. Speaker. Ridiculous. Let me tell you a little bit about Labrador and this Administration and how finally they figured out that Labrador was up there. They are talking about putting in $23 million in additional funding which will be provided for initiatives in the five Northern Coastal Labrador communities of Nain, Hopedale, Rigolet, Makkovik and Postville.

MS BETTNEY: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I think it is a good thing. I would not argue against that. Every time that the Minister of Human Resources and Employment speaks up she says that it is a good thing when she knows I am going to agree with, but a question -

MS BETTNEY: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, but it is not a simple as that. It is a good thing and it is needed, and there is no doubt about that, with what has been going on in Labrador over the past while. Hopefully it is going to be money well spent.

If you are looking at $23 million for five communities, and you are looking at $20 million for over 300 communities, I mean the question has been - and I am not saying this - but it has been questioned to me that it seems to be out of proportion. My answer to that is this, that really that area has been neglected over the past number of years and hopefully the money will be well spent.

It talks about how $7.7 million will be provided over three years to improve housing conditions on the Northern Labrador Coast which will create 125 new homes and renovations of 280 homes. Mr. Speaker, I brought this up in the Estimates Committee last night, where they came up with this $7.7 million. Because to me, from what I saw from the outside looking at it really, we had a serious situation in Labrador. The Premier went down there and all of a sudden a week after we had $30 million in the Budget for Labrador. So I was wondering how they came up with these figures so quickly, but the minister explained that there have been ongoing negotiations over the past number of years with the Member for Torngat Mountains and bringing this forward to the Department of Municipal Affairs for a number of years, I suppose, since he has been here trying to get funding for that.

So, $7.7 million, 125 new homes and renovations of 280 homes. I suppose you could easily come up with some quick calculations there to support that kind of money. Again, I do not know if it will solve the problems there. I sincerely hope it will go a long ways towards that. I think the Premier was right when he came back and he made some comments in the media with respect to the problems there and how they need to be addressed and how we can support those people, and hopefully that this will go a long way towards that.

Mr. Speaker, I am getting there now. I only have another fifty or sixty minutes to go this evening.

Nine million dollars will be provided through the Inuit Communities Agreement over the next three years for water and sewer projects in the five communities. When you see those communities and you see some of the conditions that these people are living in in Labrador, of course this money will hopefully, as I said, be well spent.

It says here about other Labrador initiatives. This government will spend $57.5 million on the construction of the Trans-Labrador Highway and two highway depots in the region. Of course, this will open up the area of Labrador to, hopefully, developments in the long haul. God only knows what industries we can create with the opening of the Labrador highway. Again, this is money we hope will be well spent as long as the Public Tender Act is being followed and properly enforced.

I have just a few more items here. There is: For the prosperity of our economy, and the renewal strategy for jobs and growth. The interim report released showed some major themes that emerged from the Jobs and Growth consultations and the priorities that government intends to pursue. Talk is cheap. We have heard it so often from this Administration. Since I have been here anyway, I'm hearing the same old stuff over and over. They are not producing with respect to job growth and the strategies and what have you. Again, I can get into that and I have some stats here that I am going to talk about now.

In here it says: The government often claims to be leading the country in economic growth as measured by the GDP. Other indicators show we are falling behind the other provinces in the key areas of economic development. Now, we are the only province to show a net loss of population. Again, we talk about municipalities in the Province. We brought this up here last night in the House of Assembly with respect to taxes. We have communities in rural Newfoundland - well, not only in rural Newfoundland. There are people leaving the St. John's area and the northeast Avalon, they are leaving my district, young people leaving the Province. We lost 40,000 people since 1992. That is 7 per cent of our population gone since 1992.

I'm going to make a comparison here now because I thought this was kind of ironic. Recently we had a group of individuals over here from Ireland who were recruiting Newfoundlanders to go to Ireland to work in the hotel and tourism industry over there, and what have you. As a matter of fact, I have a nephew and his girlfriend from Outer Cove-Logy Bay who are leaving on April 5, I believe, going over for the summer, and a lot of their friends too.

Back in the 1800s, I think it was, we had a mass exodus of people from Ireland to Newfoundland; now we have people from Newfoundland going to Ireland to look for work. It took 200 years to do it, but we are going back. We shall see how that works out. I expect once these young people get over there and they get into the education system over there - I had this young lady tell me just the other day at one of the video stores that she was going on April 5. She has already talked about free education over there. Can you imagine? They are not even over there yet and they are talking about free education in Ireland.

AN HON. MEMBER: What?

MR. J. BYRNE: I am talking about the people that were over here some time ago from the tourism industry from Ireland recruiting young people and whatever to go to Ireland to work in tourism and hotels and what have you. This young lady I was talking to -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Right, and that is what has to happen here. The Premier said something the other day that I agree with him on, and that was that we have to work a deal with respect to the transfer payments to this Province, the equalization. We have to do something there. We have to kick-start the economy here and get back on an equal footing.

In Ireland, the economic community over there pumped billions of dollars, from what I understand, into the economy of Ireland. That is what has to happen, but -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I took (inaudible) Ottenheimer.

In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, we have a situation where now, as I said, people in Newfoundland are going to Ireland to work. I mentioned the education system. We had this young lady saying that when she gets over there she is going to check out the education system and she may end up staying there to get her education because her education is free. That in itself is frightening, if they really hook on to that, because we could have a mass exodus of our young people. It is bad enough now with the population decrease of 40,000 people since 1992. We have this administration trying to say that everything in this Province is hunky-dory, trying to give this false sense of security. That is what is happening.

Also with respect to the Budget here, and I am talking about, For The Prosperity Of Our Economy, under the Highlights. We are falling behind the rest of Canada in job creation. That is not the impression that this government is giving.

In 1989 there was a gap of 8.3 percentage points between the unemployment rate in this Province and the unemployment rate in the whole of Canada. The gap widened to 8.6 percentage points in 1998, and widened further to 10.2 percentage points in the first months of this year.

Can you believe, the Government House Leader just said: That's stats. You can do anything with stats.

MR. TULK: There is an old saying.

MR. J. BYRNE: What is the saying?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Minister of Development and Rural Renewal, the Government House Leader, says there are statistics, there are statistics - and what is the other part? Whatever - and then there are lies. Mr. Speaker, can you imagine that statement coming from that minister, who hangs their hat on polls every day, polls being done every day? That is how they govern, by polls. They are always throwing stats back to us, but when we use them -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Well, well, the Government House Leader said they don't twist the facts. I have been speaking all afternoon on the trickery of this administration and how they twist stuff around, and I am only at the Highlights of the Budget yet.

A few other things with respect to the economy, I am almost getting into theses sheets here now, the economy - research, research.

MR. TULK: Are you (inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Could be.

Listen now. We are falling behind the rest of Canada in the export trade. You heard the Premier talking about export, and how we are up in export, but if you really look at it and what I said earlier when I was talking about the Highlights - and I said I would get into more detail - we are falling behind the rest of Canada in the export trade. In 1989, exports accounted for 30 per cent of the GDP and we were the leading export Province in the nation, relative to the GDP. By 1998, we were at 34 per cent of the GDP. We were up alright, but all other provinces had gained much more. Three provinces had vaulted ahead of us. Ontario's export trade went from 28 per cent to 52 per cent of the GDP; Saskatchewan from 23 per cent to 41 per cent. Look, make the comparisons yourself. Quebec, from 20 per cent to 38 per cent.

Even the other Atlantic Provinces far outpaced our rate of growth relative to the GDP. New Brunswick improved 8 percentage points, from 25 per cent to 33 per cent. Nova Scotia gained 12 points, from 16 per cent to 28 per cent. PEI posted a 12 point gain.

What did we go up? Four percent, was it? The Premier and the Minister of Finance are trying to say that we are jumping ahead of the other provinces. See what I am talking about, saying one thing and doing another.

Another good indicator of how good the economy is doing, and how good the Province is doing, is with respect to child poverty. Child poverty has declined in every other province since 1996 but continues to rise in this Province. Child poverty is decreasing in other provinces but increasing in this Province.

MR. GRIMES: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I say to the Minister of Health, I hope you're right.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: He wants a row does he? Well, my son, come on.

Speaking of a racket, the Minister of Finance - not the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Health. I am getting them confused; they are jumping around that much over there. The Minister of Health -

MR. TULK: Which one?

AN HON. MEMBER: The past or the present minister?

MR. J. BYRNE: There is a past, past, that is right, a previous, previous. The present Minister of Health. I was shocked, actually, that the Premier made him Minister of Health. I was; we were all shocked.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: The Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs said: We were all shocked.

Now the truth. I will tell you why, because the Minister of Fisheries wouldn't take it, the Minister of Finance wouldn't take it. At least she had the guts to take it when it was offered to her, but that fellow there.... I remember last April 1, when they passed that legislation ordering the nurses back to work when the strike was on, you, the present Minister of Health, standing up over there jeering the nurses in the gallery.

AN HON. MEMBER: No, no.

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, he was; he was so. Then he went outside and got into a racket with the nurses out there. Then he came back in the House of Assembly, that member there, he got in there and I couldn't believe what he was up to. I was ashamed to be here. I was embarrassed for the administration on that side, the government, because he was over there, up and down like a yo-yo, like a jack-in-the-box, up and down, going to find out the big secret: Who phoned into Open Line?

AN HON. MEMBER: He was going to find out.

MR. J. BYRNE: He was going to find out. Did you find out, I say to the member?

AN HON. MEMBER: It wasn't Open Line.

MR. J. BYRNE: What was it?

AN HON. MEMBER: Someone told the nurses that we kicked them out of the House.

MR. J. BYRNE: Okay, I stand corrected. Who told the nurses that the Liberals kicked them out of the House? I stand corrected. I am sorry about that; but he was going to get to the bottom of it. Every time anybody got up, the next thing you know he was up on a point of order, or we were taking turns, side to side, and I was embarrassed for the poor man. Now he is the Minister of Health.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: He is not poor, I know.

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I will tell (inaudible) the hon. gentleman, what is worse about the situation for that side over there is that he is not yet finished. He is coming back to it. He has vowed and declared, if it is the last thing he does in this Legislature, that he will find out who the guilty party was.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: He is going to get to the bottom of it. Well, I will tell you this now: If he is going to get to the bottom of it, he had better do it soon. I say to the Government House Leader, if the Minister of Health is going to get to the bottom of it, he had better do it soon; because if he doesn't do it this sitting, by the fall of this year - it is only one more sitting - that man there, the leader, your Premier, your god, not mine, your god, could very well be gone. Think about this now. Then that guy there - him, the Minister of Fisheries, the Minister of Finance, and if she has the nerve, the Minister of Municipal Affairs, they are going for the big job. Then we don't care which one of you gets it because we are going to flatten you anyway. We don't care over here. You are going to be flat and gone. If he gets it, he is going to be gone; he is only in there for another little while. It is going to come down between two people.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Who?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Yes, for a very short while. It is going to come down between two people, because I will tell you what is going to happen. I haven't seen this in person, but I often saw it on a movie when you see the piranha eating each other. That is what is going to happen over there. It is going to be like what it is going on in St. John's West now.

AN HON. MEMBER: Which show was that, Jack?

MR. J. BYRNE: Tarzan

AN HON. MEMBER: Sunday morning..

MR. J. BYRNE: Sunday morning Tarzan.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) watching Tarzan.

MR. J. BYRNE: When I was that high.

Anyway, what is going to happen is similar to what is happening in St. John's West now, okay, a big announcement: Tom Murphy is going for it. The would-be has decided that they can't have Tom Murphy; they have to take him out of the picture, so they get Rex Gibbons to run, former member. Have to take him out of the picture.

AN HON. MEMBER: Jack, call it 5:30, will you?

MR. J. BYRNE: No, it is not 5:30 yet.

The would-be has to take Tom Murphy out of the picture. I ran into Mr. Murphy and a former member, a well-respected man here, Mr. Hubert Kitchen, after the Budget in the lobby there last week.

AN HON. MEMBER: My opponent.

MR. J. BYRNE: The opponent was beat by this man here.

I went over to the two of them. They were having a little chat. I said to Tom: Tom, they are trying to do the job on you. He said: No, Jack, just a little bump in the road. I said: Tom, yes, and I fell off the truck yesterday too.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Kitchen was here when I was here in 1993.

AN HON. MEMBER: Dr. Kitchen to you.

MR. J. BYRNE: Right on, Dr. Kitchen. I am sorry.

He made a comment to me about politics. He said: Jack, one of these days, who knows, I might run again - or something like that, in a kind of joking way. He said to me: But, Jack - and I said, what? - I won't be taking you on. I said: Why not, boy? He said: You can't be beaten down there. That is what he said to me. I said: I thank you for that, because the Government House Leader tells me the same thing, and whenever he tells me that, I get nervous and have to work all the harder. I take nothing for granted.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I didn't believe one of them.

Back to St. John's West. We had Murphy, and they had to take him out of it. Then they let Rex Gibbons go. Then phone calls started to go back and forth to get someone else to run.

MR. SULLIVAN: Why? What is wrong with Rex?

MR. J. BYRNE: They don't want him because -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Will I give the whole story? Because of who he is supporting. Paul Martin is his buddy, and he is Paul Martin's buddy, so you have to get rid of him. On high, a call from Ottawa saying: We can't have him, so get someone else.

Who is coming now? We have the young guy from Mt. Pearl.

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, Steve.

MR. J. BYRNE: Steve Kent in the picture. Now I am having thoughts. Do they really want him? I don't think so. Who is coming next? Who are you after now?

AN HON. MEMBER: Rex is back in.

MR. J. BYRNE: Rex is back in? Oh, big announcement, in and out. Does he want it? Here we go, typical of a Liberal: in, out; yes, no; up, down; don't know; maybe so; say this, do that. That is the way it is.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I don't say I would be as good at it as the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TULK: (Inaudible) suspense.

MR. J. BYRNE: I am not finished with that suspense yet, if you will let me finish. Now, let me finish. Who are you after now? We have Rex back in, but you were going outside the district next.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, they were going outside the district. You were. We have sources to tell us what is going on. Yes, and do you know something else? With the schemozzle that you have created - and here we are, Chrétien up in Ottawa - how long is he up there? Fifty or sixty years, okay. We have the Government House Leader, twenty or thirty years over there, the Premier in Ottawa and here, I don't know, fifteen or twenty years, whatever the case may be. It sounds like it is political inexperience. That is what it is like.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I never said that. Now, do you see? There he goes again, the Government House Leader. Not the clue, not the click, doesn't pay attention, doesn't listen. I said it and I will not repeat it. Read Hansard.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Now see, I am always amazed at the Minister of Health. He has been here since 1989. When did you come here? In 1989? And he asked me to move a motion of non-confidence so we can start again, but he doesn't understand that I have unlimited time.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I would say he should be. I say this to the Member for Topsail: he is excited about it. I will tell you one thing, I wouldn't be excited about it if you were up, or getting up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: I can tell you that, because you don't get up enough. We don't hear enough from you. If I knew what to expect from you, I might be excited.

Now, St. John's West. What is going to happen in St. John's West - boys, take it from me, keep John Efford out of there. He was up in the Ferryland district. Keep him out. Don't send him up there, for a starter.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: There you go.

AN HON. MEMBER: Number one was to keep John out. Number two?

MR. J. BYRNE: Number two is this - the bottom line.

AN HON. MEMBER: Keep Ralph out.

MR. J. BYRNE: It is not even a question about keeping Ralph out. That is not a question. Sammy - I will not use any last names - I don't think he is going to do you any favours up there. When we have our candidate announced, boys, you are finished; you are not going to win it anyway. Give up.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I am not saying you don't. Did I say you don't? I said when he announces.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: You see, he doesn't listen, does he? The Government House Leader doesn't listen. No wonder he is in so much trouble all the time with respect to points of order. He thinks he heard something, he gets up on a point of order, and it is not what was said, right? So, again -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: I will tell you one thing, Mr. Speaker, it is almost 5:30, and when I was here - I drew them back in the House, though, Mr. Speaker. Look, a full House. They are all back, waiting with anticipated breath, to see what is coming next. Just before - is it close enough to 5:30, do you think?

Just before I sit down, Mr. Speaker, and maybe adjourn debate -

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: Is that alright? Now, boys, no fast ones here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

AN HON. MEMBER: Remember that night? It is not like he wouldn't try.

MR. J. BYRNE: Oh, I will save that for later. Listen here, I say to the Government House Leader, remember that night, December of 1997?

AN HON. MEMBER: Beaton, trying to pull a fast one on Jack.

MR. J. BYRNE: He didn't get very far - caught red-handed.

MR. TULK: What did I do?

MR. J. BYRNE: Don't go there now. Save that for some time when I get upset.

I want to let the House know today I started speaking, I think it was around 2:30 p.m., and so far I have gotten almost halfway through this, the highlights. This is to come.

Mr. Speaker, seeing that it is close to 5:30 p.m., I will adjourn debate.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, before we adjourn I think we have agreement on both sides that given the resignation of the Member for Trinity North today, who was the Deputy Speaker of the House - and we need a motion in order to do this in the House, but I think we have agreement on all sides - that the Member for Port au Port will serve as the Deputy Speaker of this House and the Member for Humber East will serve as the Chairman of Committees.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) no debate about the Member for Humber East (inaudible).

MR. TULK: You finally (inaudible).

Mr. Speaker, I would make that motion and I would call upon the hon. Leader of the Opposition to second.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: I was just about to say, Mr. Speaker, I was wondering if there is anybody else who might know, because now is your opportunity. There are sixteen of us over here now. We can bring back democracy in the House and vote for it, if you would like. I say, in all seriousness, that I second the motion put forward by the Government House Leader in the absence of the Premier.

MR. SPEAKER: You have all heard the motion.

All those in favour, ‘aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye!

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay.'

Carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I move that the House adjourn until tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. on Wednesday. It is Private Member's Day. Do you have a motion that you are putting forward?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, the motion was put forth by the Member for St. John's South. That is, I think, the only private member's motion there on the Order Paper for tomorrow.

MR. TULK: I move that the House adjourn, Mr. Speaker.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, at 2:00 p.m.