The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

MR. SPEAKER: It will be my intention on each day to announce the rotation. The rotation for today would be statements by the Members for Terra Nova, Exploits, Humber Valley, Grand Falls-Buchans, Labrador West, and the Member for Ferryland.

The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to offer congratulations to the people of Glovertown, Traytown and Culls Harbour who, this weekend, played host to the very first provincial Girls Hockey Tournament ever held in our Province.

Under the capable direction and leadership of Mr. Steven Harris, a local physical education teacher, and hosted by local families, eight teams from around the Island competed at the Glovertown Arena. First place honours went to Ascension Collegiate of Bay Roberts and the host team from Glovertown were selected as displaying the highest level of sportsmanship. Congratulations to these and to all the girls who participated.

Mr. Speaker, this event was covered by the local media, including the CBC, which to me demonstrates its importance.

What this weekend also says to me, Mr. Speaker, is that the small communities in our rural districts are indeed capable of participating in and hosting such events. It shows me that we have the interest, the ability, the facilities and the will to contribute to the youth of this Province and, indeed, to the life of the Province as a whole.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

I apologize, we should have admitted strangers before we had the first statement. We shall now do that. It will just take a second.

SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Admit strangers.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Exploits.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to remember Father Leo Burke who passed away recently after a lengthy illness at the age of ninety.

Father Burke served Bishop's Falls for more than thirty years, starting in 1957, and tended to the spiritual needs of the communities of Bishop's Falls, Botwood and Fortune Harbour. Father Burke had a profound affect on the lives of everyone in the community, as well as the entire Province, and was a very active and prominent member of the community. His hard work revitalized the Catholic community in Bishop's Falls and the results of his labours can be seen today in the church as well as the parish residence and the school that today bears his name; Leo Burke Academy, all of which were built during the 1960s. Father Burke put his heart and soul into these projects as well as everything else that he did for the community and the region.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join me in extending condolences to the Roman Catholic Parish of Bishop's Falls and the entire community as we remember the life of a man deeply dedicated to the community and to his faith.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, as MHA for the District of Humber Valley I rise today to congratulate four residents of Corner Brook who have done our Province proud.

On Sunday, February 1, 2004, the curling team of Skip Bas Buckle, Third Bob Freeman, Second Gerry Young and Lead Harvey Holloway, won the Canadian Senior Men's Curling Championship held in Vernon, B.C.

This is a major accomplishment as the top senior men's curling teams from across the country competed. They are only the third team from Newfoundland and Labrador and the first from the Corner Brook Curling Club.

As result of winning this championship, the team now has the great privilege of representing our country, and indeed our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, on an international scale. The team will compete at the World Senior Curling Championship to be held in Sweden, April 17-25, 2004.

I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join me today in congratulating the team of Buckle, Holloway, Young and Freeman, and wish them luck this April in Sweden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize and commend Aliant for their contributions to the community of Badger after the flood of 2003.

As we are all aware, the Badger flood had a devastating impact on the entire region; however, the tremendous generosity displayed by Newfoundlanders and Labradorians helped alleviate many of the problems surrounding this devastating natural disaster.

One example of this kind generosity was a scholarship fund that was established by the Aliant Pioneers and the Exploits Club. This scholarship sees $1,000 awarded to a university student from Badger each year for the next fifteen years. This $15,000 endowment was raised through donations that came to the organizations from all across Canada.

This year the first scholarship was presented to Dane Hurley, the son of Neil and Marion Hurley. Mr. Hurley is a student at Acadia University in Nova Scotia.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in congratulating The Aliant Pioneers, The Exploits Club and the many volunteers who kindly donated to the Badger fund to ensure the future of Bander's youth are strong. In addition, I congratulate Dane Hurley and wish him all the best as he continues his studies at Acadia University.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my great pleasure today to bring to the attention of Members of the House of Assembly, the accomplishments of fifteen-year-old Joey Russell, a figure skater from Labrador City. Last year, Mr. Speaker, Joey won a silver medal in the Junior National Championships. This year, Joey returned home from the National Novice Men's event held in Nepean, Ontario, sporting a silver medal. Mr. Speaker, this marks the first time in our Province's figure skating history where two medals have been won in a national championship in a singles event.

Joey is totally dedicated to his chosen sport. In fact much of his schooling is self-taught, as he is spending more and more time training in Alberta. His proud parents are John and Judy Russell, who are very supportive of their son's accomplishments.

I ask all members, Mr. Speaker, to join me in wishing Joey continued success.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Ferryland seeks leave to make a member's statement. Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take this opportunity, on behalf of my district, to publicly pay my respect to the memory of the recently departed Mr. Michael Ryan of Bay Bulls.

Mr. Ryan passed away on March 18. He was a committed family man who cared greatly for his family, friends and community. During his lifetime he worked in various capacities, from being a mess boy on the Jupiter as it laid anti-submarine nets in St. John's Harbour during World War II to being an attendant at the Waterford Hospital, while at the same time owning a grocery store. He is probably most well known for his building of Ryan's Funeral Home in Bay Bulls.

A strong volunteer, Mr. Ryan was a former Mayor of Bay Bulls, a Fourth Degree member of the Knights of Columbus, a seventeen-year school trustee, and a recipient of the 2003 Queen's Jubilee Award, to mention only a few of his past activities and achievements. He has been a lifetime supporter of the PC Party and served as an example to all of us on how one individual can make a difference to so many.

I am sure this House, Mr. Speaker, will join with me in sending our condolences to the Ryan family.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform this hon. House of a dinner that I attended on behalf of the Province last Thursday evening in Ottawa. Mr. Speaker, the dinner was hosted by the Prime Minister and held in honour of the Prime Minister of Ireland, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

I had the privilege of sitting next to Taoiseach Ahern for most of the evening, as Prime Minister Martin insisted that I take his seat next to the Taoiseach, so that we could discuss issues of mutual importance to Ireland and Newfoundland and Labrador.

We share deep and profound roots as a province and a country, as much of our cultural heritage is steeped in Irish tradition. We must continue to build on those traditions and further develop relationships with the Irish in areas of trade, commerce, investment and bi-lateral cooperation.

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what I discussed with the Taoiseach, and we agreed that much can be accomplished with a renewed Memorandum of Understanding between our jurisdictions. I am hopeful that this MOU can be signed during a provincial mission we are planning to Ireland this summer.

Newfoundland and Labrador can learn a great deal from the Irish experience. When Ireland joined the European Union in 1973, its economy was among the poorest in Europe. Today, it is the fastest growing EU economy. Ireland has been very successful in attracting investment and focusing on exports and it now boasts the youngest population in all Europe and an exceptional education system.

Mr. Speaker, these sound like ambitious goals for this Province given our current fiscal situation, however, these are the kinds of goals that this Province must aspire to and with patience, cooperation and by making smart long-term decisions we can be the next Ireland. If Ireland can do it, then Newfoundland and Labrador can certainly do it, too.

I spoke extensively with the Taoiseach about how Ireland successively turned its economy around and how we can emulate that experience in this Province.

Understanding the seriousness of our fiscal challenges, the Taoiseach was very forthcoming with sound advice on steps that we must take to address our deficit so that we can grow our economy for a bright and prosperous future.

Mr. Speaker, our government looks forward to a renewed relationship with the Irish government and other partners, as we reaffirm our commitment to work together for the common good of Ireland and Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me say thank you, Mr. Speaker, as well to the Premier's Office for providing an advance copy of the statement that was just read here in the House.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see that this particular dinner occurred. I am glad to see, just as we saw in the Throne Speech, that the new government plans to continue another great Liberal initiative, the Irish-Newfoundland and Labrador business partnership, because in fact it has been one of the areas where there has been great success in the last number of years, dating back to 1993, as a matter of fact, the House might know, and it has been renewed - I understand the statement to say they are going to renew, not a brand new one, but renew - the MOU which has been in place for a decade, and we have done this.

I point this out, Mr. Speaker: The statement says Newfoundland and Labrador can learn a great deal from the Irish experience, talking about growing the economy. We have learned a lot from the Irish experience and we have grown the economy. As a matter of fact, we have led the country in economic growth for most of the last decade as a result of learning some of the lessons.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the problem is this: The problem is that in the Irish experience, the one thing that they have that we are still missing, is the transfers from the EU in cash to Ireland that let them make the difference in training, because they grew their own economy but they got a huge transfer of money from the EU, and I would suggest and contend to the House and the people of the Province, that it was not any big favour that the Prime Minister was doing -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. GRIMES: - saying: Sit next to the Taoiseach. He should have sat next to the Prime Minister and straightened out our transfers from Ottawa.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad the Premier had a chance to meet with Taoiseach last week. I know that obviously concentration on export is something, really, that we have been doing in this Province for a very long time: iron ore, fish, oil and now nickle. The real problem here, Mr. Speaker, is that we are not getting our fair share of the benefits of these resources, and I don't know of Ireland can teach us anything about that.

They can teach us one thing though, Mr. Speaker. They have put a tremendous investment over the last thirty years into education. A lot of that money came from the EU, but they built their public education system and made sure that everybody in Ireland had an opportunity to get a good quality public education that wasn't costing them money. That is somewhere where we can emulate Ireland, Mr. Speaker, and with a better educated young people who are able to stay here we can improve out economy too.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as my fellow members of the House of Assembly are aware, on April 24, 2003, the federal government announced the closure to the Northern Gulf cod and Northern cod fisheries. This impacted over 580 people in the processing sector and up to 800 harvesting enterprises on the West Coast of Newfoundland and in Southern Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, last spring our Province's All-party Committee on Cod Fisheries took the position that a complete moratorium on cod fishing in the Northern Gulf of St. Lawrence is unnecessary. It was, and remains, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador's view that the cod stocks in 3Pn4RS can be rebuilt by introducing additional conservation measures in the context of a limited fishery that is ongoing.

Mr. Speaker, in November the Premier wrote to the federal government to express our Province's position about the importance of reopening the cod fishery in 3Pn4RS. The Premier also raised the matter when he met with the new Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Mr. Geoff Regan, last week here in St. John's. I too raised the issue when I met with Mr. Regan in January and did so again when we met last week in Boston. In our initial meeting, Mr. Speaker, I asked Minister Regan to request the advice of the Fisheries Resource Conservation Council, the FRCC, for 3Pn4RS cod stocks for this year.

Mr. Speaker, earlier this month, Minister Regan did indeed ask the FRCC to provide him with a recommendation on cod in the Northern Gulf of St. Lawrence. Information available from the DFO research survey and sentinel fisheries suggests that the stock is in better shape than what scientists believed last year. Mr. Speaker, we are again calling on the federal government to open a small- scale cod fishery in 3Pn4RS, in conjunction with conservation measures to help rebuild the stock.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, while I thank the minister for his statement here today there seems to be more unanswered questions then there are questions that are answered in his statement.

I was the minister when the all-party committee that he talked about was established last winter and I think personally that the most important recommendation that we gave to the federal government is that we would keep the cod fishery open, not only in the Gulf but also in 2J+3KL.

I noticed in your statement that both you and the Premier talked to the minister. I would like to know what you said about the stock in 2J3KL? Have you forgotten the people from the Coast of Labrador to St. John's here, or is that just forgetting about that?

I also want to talk about the FRCC. The FRCC recommended to the minister last year that the Gulf fishery be kept open, but what did the minister do? He closed it anyway. So if this minister is no better than the last one, do not hold your breath.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I assume that the minister is talking about the federal minister, not the provincial one. I would ask, Mr. Speaker, that when this provincial Minister of Fisheries gives a Ministerial Statement that he read or talk a little bit slower because by the time it gets to me I only get one-half of what the critic gets to respond. He only gets half of what you get. I will have to get leave to respond to the statement today.

The issue is a very important one and I do hope that this government is more successful than all of us put together were last year in trying to convince the Liberal minister in Ottawa to do the right thing -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: I hope, Mr. Speaker, that we are more successful than we all were in a full court press last year. We worked very, very hard to put together a consensus on the 2J3KL and the Gulf stocks to seek at least to keep the fishery open a crack so that our fishing industry would have a stake in the rebuilding of those stocks. I hope that he will listen to the -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: I thought I had leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair did not ask if leave had been granted. If leave has been granted you certainly can continue, sir.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Both of these fisheries are very important. Obviously the whole Northeast Coast depends on the success of the rebuilding of the stocks of 2J+3K L and there has been terrific evidence in the Gulf that there has been improvements in those stocks. So we would like to see both of them open for the benefit of the fishermen who need that fish today, and also for the rebuilding of the stocks for the future.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Before we proceed with the Oral Questions, I want to take this opportunity to make a commentary on the Question Periods in the House and the procedures that I would like to see practiced.

Before the commencement of the first Question Period of the First Session of the 45th General Assembly, it therefore might be appropriate for me, as your new Speaker, to share some perspectives on the conduct of Question Period, since this feature of our parliamentary democracy plays such a pivotal role in the right of members to seek information from the ministry and the right of the ministry to offer clarifications or information on administrative policies and practices.

Speaker James Jerome of the Canadian House of Commons described Question Period in a book entitled Mr. Speaker, as follows: "If the essence of Parliament is government accountability, then surely the essence of accountability is the Question Period."

Question Period serves this House as a daily snapshot of our provincial political life and is followed more closely than any other part of our sitting day by the press and in recent years, since the televising of our House, by the general public. It is a vibrant part of our democracy with tremendous spontaneity and, by its very nature and tradition, is a free-wheeling affair. Much of what is said finds its way into the newscast and into the print media. Messages are not always as refined or as perfect as we would like, but history and tradition will show Question Period to be an effective manner to making parliamentary points, both for the Opposition and Government alike.

Question Period places heavy demands on the Speaker. Every Speaker has his or her own style and is guided by traditions of parliamentary practices both in this House and in other Houses within Canada and throughout the Commonwealth.

Time management and brevity are essential features of Question Period. Most Parliaments in Canada have established specific limitations on the time allocated for the asking of questions and for the response by the ministry.

Speaker Snow repeatedly brought this matter to the attention of members during the Forty-Fourth House by reminding members that lengthy preambles took an unfair share of time and almost invariably provoked the same kind of response.

In the House of Commons in Ottawa, members asking questions have a maximum time allocation of thirty-five seconds, with the same allocation of time for the responses by the government. These time allocations have assured that as many members as possible can participate in Question Period.

I might point out that, with the adoption of these new rules, in the forty-five minute Question Period in Ottawa the questions that were asked ranged from thirty-eight to forty-two questions, from the average before that of twenty-two to twenty-four.

I might say that our House has the lowest ratio of questions and answers per minute, per sitting, in Canada, meaning that Question Period has tended to be dominated by lengthy questions and equally lengthy answers. A review of the average number of questions per sitting in the last House was thirteen in a thirty-minute Question Period, or an average of one full minute for each question and for each answer.

Question Period is not a debating forum, and members should take every effort to be as brief as possible in asking questions and ministers should take the minimum time in offering an answer. I am proposing to work with members to try to improve the number of questions we have on the Order Paper every day. The average in the last House was thirteen questions, including supplementaries. As I say, that is now the lowest in the country.

The Speaker recognizes that our House will perhaps need some time for adjustment to the new time allocations. In the interim, the Speaker will be sufficiently flexible to allow an easy transition to the new process. Members either asking the question, or the minister giving a response, can expect an interruption from the Speaker after about forty seconds or so. This will indicate to the member that his or her time allocation is near completion and that there is but time for one additional short sentence.

Members should not feel offended if they run out of time. Just a few days ago, when watching Question Period in Ottawa, I witnessed the Deputy Prime Minister running out of time on six occasions in one Question Period. I fully expect similar occurrences in this House. No member asking a question and no member giving an answer should feel aggrieved by the process. It may take a few days for the change to become a familiar part of our traditions. The Speaker will try to be sensitive to the issues under discussion and use whatever discretion is deemed appropriate.

Finally, let us always remember that regardless of how dramatically we may differ in our opinions or how passionately we may believe in the value of our convictions, it is essential that Question Period be conducted in a free and civil manner that respects the rights of each member to participate in a tolerant and understanding parliamentary procedure.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You will get no argument from me with respect to brevity and I will try to set a very good example. I have been promoting the concept for fifteen years, Mr. Speaker. I could not agree with you any more.

Mr. Speaker, I personally was pleased, and I am sure that all of us were pleased, to hear in the Throne Speech that the government is working cooperatively and constructively with our public sector unions to negotiate new collective agreements, and that government's commitment to positive labour relations and harmony in the workforce is solid. Now, only time will tell, of course, if that is going to happen and that commitment will be kept or not.

My question, Mr. Speaker, is for the Premier. Can the Premier, in the meantime - we can all recall what happened in the Throne Speech - recall the commitment he made to the unions on September 20, 2001, in his address to the Newfoundland Association of Public Employees, and does he believe that commitment he made on that day has been kept?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I know the frustration of being on the other side of the House, and I know what it is like not to get answers to questions. I stood over there for two years, I must have asked a thousand questions, and never got an answer, so in order to make it easy for the Leader of the Opposition, the answer is yes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the answer and, to make sure the answer is yes, I will remind the Premier of the exact commitment, Mr. Speaker. He did say, on September 20, 2001: If some unexpected, unanticipated circumstance arises, I will come back to you as the unions and ask for your help and cooperation in finding a resolution we can all live with.

Mr. Speaker, how many meetings has the Premier held, did the Premier hold, with the unions prior to announcing his solution on January 5, 2004?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do remember the commitment that I made. I do not know exactly what I said to the NAPE convention when I spoke to them. I would also indicate to the Leader of the Opposition and yourself, Mr. Speaker, that I have met with the leader of the nurses' union, I have met with the leader of the police association, I have met with the President of NAPE, and I have met with the President of CUPE. I have had a detailed discussion with them and I will allow the collective bargaining process to take its due course.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is refreshing to see the new approach at work, to answer a question completely different than the one that I asked. Let me ask it again. The question was: How many meetings did the Premier hold, Mr. Speaker, with the union representatives prior to January 5, 2004, when, without any consultation with anybody, he announced part of the solution, which was going to be a wage freeze for two years? Would he like to redeem himself and take a chance at answering the question that was actually asked? How many meetings were held prior to January 5, 2004?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition knows full well that the election was held in October, that we took over government on November 6, and that the speech to which he refers was held two months later. We spent our entire time, during that time, the two months, taking a closer look at what his government had done to our Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: When we took a closer look we did indeed find a mess, Mr. Speaker, and we spent that entire time trying to clean it up, specifically authorizing an independent study by PricewaterhouseCoopers. That is what we were doing during that period of time, Mr. Speaker.

During that period of time, Mr. Speaker, just so I cannot be accused of not answering the question, no, I did not have any meeting during that period of time because I was too busy taking a closer look.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I do commend the Premier for admitting that the answer is: No, there were no meetings held with the unions.

Mr. Speaker, the issue again is this: We seem to have two Premiers, one who makes the commitments and another one who then turns around and breaks the commitments.

The commitment was: If some unanticipated, unexpected circumstance arises I will come back to you and discuss it with you. He just admitted that he held no meetings. He looked at the circumstance, decided what the answer was and announced it to the whole world; a commitment one time and then breaking it the next time.

Mr. Speaker, a new question: Maybe we should ask the pensioners -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Ask the pensioners if they believe the commitments made were commitments kept or broken, Mr. Speaker.

Clearly, on the public record, the Member for St. John's Centre, having consulted with the now Premier, said, raises for pensioners retroactive to 1989, and now a rollback. Is that a commitment kept by this Premier, Mr. Speaker, to the pensioners?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If I might answer the question from the Leader of the Opposition with some of his own words, Mr. Speaker.

In March of 1998 he said: I think, Mr. Speaker, the direction here today is very specific. It says, take care of a select few, who happen to be public service pensioners, by creating a further burden on pension plans that are already severely stretched. He is quoting December 1, 1999. Our notion is that while public servants did provide tremendous goods and services to the Province we should not downplay or suggest that they are the only ones who built the Province. That was his answer, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, the issues in terms of the history of the government that I led have been dealt with in the election, Mr. Speaker. We understand that. We are looking forward to the new approach, Mr. Speaker. It is the new approach that the people want to hear about today. What is this group going to do differently and for the betterment of people like the pensioners?

Mr. Speaker, due to the public discussion of the negotiations that have occurred to date, it is well known that the government wants to achieve a wage freeze and a series of concessions such as this rollback of a pension increase. Does the Premier have any plans, Mr. Speaker, to accomplish those objectives if the unions refuse to voluntarily sign such an agreement?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, unlike the former Premier and his government, the new approach does not negotiate in public.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: It does not negotiate collective agreements or finalize collective agreements on the open lines in our Province. We will allow the collective bargaining process to take its course. They are meeting as we sit here in this House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Since January 5, concerned people throughout the Province have been calling me about the crisis in the health care system. They tell me that the system is unable to sustain further cuts, and Thursday's Throne Speech tells us that more cuts are on the way. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the minister's own comments in the media in recent months tell us that she is more concerned with the fiscal bottom line than with the health care of people in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Community Services: How much in savings, Mr. Speaker, has she promised the Finance Minister that she can deliver in this year's Budget?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government is concerned about sustaining the health care system, providing the best health care to the residents of this Province that it can within the fiscal means available because of the way your members across the way left the condition of this Province in, and I have made no commitment whatsoever to the Minister of Finance with regard to savings in health care.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That concern that the minister has about sustaining the health care system in this Province has led her to issue a directive to health boards all across the Province, telling them that they must start cutting back their particular budgets within their organizations, and she cannot deny that this is the case.

The minister has just agreed to a best practice review for the Western and the Grenfell Health Care Boards. The Western board asked for this review, Minister, months ago. At the time you gave them the directive to go out, start looking for these savings and do their own operational reviews.

I ask the minister today: Has her change in perspective occurred because of the persistence of the Western Health Care Board -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to complete her question.

MS JONES: - or is it because of members in her own caucus who publicly stated that they could not accept the recommendations that were being put forward?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I said before, our concern is with sustainability of the health care system which was left in disarray under the members opposite.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, this member will make no apologies for expanding MRI services and building new hospitals throughout the Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: What I want to ask the minister, Mr. Speaker, is: What will she do with the report, once it is submitted, for the Western and Grenfell Regional Health Services Board area?

She has had a report from the Labrador Health Board on her desk for almost three months, recommending more than twenty-five social workers be added to Health Labrador Corporation, yet there has been little or no action, Minister. Is this the callous way that you intend to treat the other reports that you have just asked for?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will not be leaving a report to sit on the shelf, like the members opposite did with the report that was done on the Health Labrador Corporation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Health also, and I assume my question will not fit her cookie cutter approach that she has here.

In the spirit of openness and accountability of this new Administration, openness and transparency and accountability and so on, there was a report requested by this minister, of Western Health Care, to provide a report to her about how they might save $3 million by the end of this fiscal year, and $8 million over ten years.

In the spirit of openness, I understand a copy of this report has been provided to all of your Tory colleagues on the West Coast. This member and the Member for the Bay of Islands requested a copy of that report and we have been refused.

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. PARSONS: Could you explain to us why it is okay for your colleagues to have that report, but you have refused to give it to this member and the Member for Bay of Islands?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: I did not provide a copy of that report to anybody.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I put it to the minister that she indeed has the report in her possession, that she is aware that the report has been provided to her colleagues and, more specifically, that she has instructed the Western Health Care Corporation, as of March 12, not to give a copy to this member and the Member for Bay of Islands.

AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

No, that information is not correct.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, again I go back to the openness, before I make my final comment. In terms of the openness and the accountability in the Blue Book, and the blueprint about getting all reports out in thirty days anyway - that report, by the way, was filed long before thirty days, back from now, so it should have been released anyway. The minister is not denying that I made the request to her in writing.

I have in my possession here a letter from Allan Kendall, the CEO of the Western Health Care Corporation, dated March 12, because I followed it up with him and said that I have written to the minister, I have written to yourselves: How come everybody else has a copy of this report and I cannot get one? Apparently they all have one. The Member for Stephenville East, the Member for Port au Port, everybody has been on the media talking about the details of the report.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Kendall says here that he has been instructed by your department not to provide this member with a copy. That is all I can say. I am not calling the minister a liar but you either do not know what is going on in your department or who is giving whom instructions, but this is a letter from Mr. Allan Kendall saying that he has been instructed by your department not to give me a copy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: I will state quite categorically that I have provided no instructions to anybody with regard to who or whom not to give a copy of that report to.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, final supplementary.

MR. PARSONS: Final question, final supplementary.

In view of all this information I have laid before the House today, and my comments: Will the minister undertake now and here in the presence of the Province of Newfoundland, and in openness and disclosure, to provide this member with a copy of the report that has been filed with you by the Western Health Care Corporation?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: I have not provided a copy of that report to anyone and I will not be providing it to you at this time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier. His Minister of Finance in November stated that while government recognized the importance of the accrual method of accounting giving rise to large deficit numbers - and it was $660 million projected at that time - that the total amount the provincial government hoped to eliminate over a four year period was actually the cash deficit of $212 million on current account and $75 million on capital, for a total of $287 million in current capital account deficit.

That being the case, Mr. Speaker, why does the Premier persist in fearmongering and alarmist talk about deficits rising to $1 billion and setting himself on a collision course with the public sector workers and our pensioners?

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. HARRIS: Why doesn't he tell the people of this Province about the growth on the revenue side that he said in the election he was going to concentrate on instead of fearmongering and alarmist talk like that?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the Leader of the New Democratic Party for his question.

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated to the Leader of the Opposition, we took a closer look. We took a closer look at the books as soon as we got into government. We realized that we had a terrible mess on our hands. At that point in time we commissioned an independent study by a reputable firm who came back and gave us the numbers. I can tell you from my own personal experience in business throughout my life, the situation was horrendous. I had an opportunity to have that discussion with my fellow premiers at the Premiers' Conference, my fellow Atlantic Premiers, the Taoiseach of Ireland as recently as Thursday night, and they were horrified by the numbers that we have in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: So we have had a hard look at it. They are real numbers, and that is why I am dealing with it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

According to the Canadian Centre of Policy Alternatives which apparently, according to the Global Mail, has a better record than the federal government in predicting these things. They say in a study that the deficit of this Province, the sustained deficit, is stabilized at about $280 million a year; the same figure that the Minister of Finance has used.

Mr. Speaker, if that is the case, which I believe it to be, why does this minister continue to rely on inflated figures with worst-case scenarios by a group of accountants instead of a qualified economist with a great track record in predicting numbers who agrees with his own Minister of Finance? Why doesn't he talk about the real cash deficit and capital deficit that we have and not this conflated figure?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I can indicate to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi that we rely on the numbers and projections that our very confident public officials give us; the very confident officials in the Department of Finance and in the Department of Treasury Board. Those figures have been confirmed by an independent study, which was done. Those figures had been confirmed by the Royal Commission, which was done. The serious unsustainable situation in our Province has been confirmed by our bond rating agencies. The list is endless. We have a real problem here. I am really troubled by it, our entire government is troubled by it, and I would suggest that hon. members opposite should be troubled by it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The same Finance Minister, while in Opposition, talked about $100 million of wastage in the health care sector. Does he plan to attack the deficit by attacking health care services and public sector employees as a means of balancing the books?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The comments that the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi is making is not accurate. He has not taken my statement accurately at all. I have said that in the House in the previous session. It is absolutely false, the impression he is putting out. We are going to tackle this deficit in a responsible manner on behalf of the people of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question today is for the Minister of Health and Community Services. There is an ongoing issue in my district that is very important to the people of Grand Falls-Buchans and all of Central Newfoundland. It is about the status of our cancer clinic.

As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, it was announced that this was a go ahead on June 27, 2003. You can imagine the joy and encouragement that the cancer survivors felt when they heard that news. No longer would they have to sit three side-by-side in armchair recliners that will not recline. There is not enough space there, and just one bed.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member to complete her question.

MS THISTLE: There is one bed where patients share it with a doctor who needs to do examination at the same time, and people have to go through a crowded waiting room to go to the bathroom.

Mr. Speaker, can the minister today provide any assurance to the people of Central Newfoundland - in particular, Grand Falls-Buchans district - that this cancer clinic is indeed going to go ahead?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The answer to that will be known during the Budget, when the Budget is brought down.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my next question to the Minister of Transportation and Works.

Mr. Speaker, the current cancer clinic serves people from Lewisporte to Baie Verte and down on the South Coast. On March 9, I wrote the Minister of Transportation and Works and asked him for his support because his constituents use that cancer clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor. That was March 9, today is March 22. I have not heard from this minister.

Would you now stand and support your constituents and tell us, for the public record, that you will be lobbying your colleague, the Minister of Health and Community Services, to make sure that this cancer clinic goes ahead?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The House will know that ministers are not responsible for answering questions that do not fall within their administrative responsibility. Therefore, if the minister wishes to reply he can, but there is no obligation on his part to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I thank you for your protection.

I do recall, I believe, that the hon. member copied me on a letter that she sent to a colleague. I do not think it is correct that the hon. member wrote me, as the MHA for Lewisporte District, as an individual, but if she wants to do that I will certainly respond to her and I will certainly respond to my constituents if they have a question about my representation in this Chamber.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, it is quite apparent that he did not commit when he answered the question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: He did not commit any support.

I would now like to frame the question directly to the Minister of Health and Community Services. Have you heard from your colleagues in Central Newfoundland; the Member for Windsor-Springdale, the Member for Baie Verte, the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation? His constituents have to travel two hours on the highway on a good day before they undertake their treatment in Grand Falls-Windsor. Have you heard from your colleagues who have constituents using the cancer clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete her question.

MS THISTLE: Can they be afforded the privacy, the comfort, the dignity other cancer survivors have in this Province? Have you heard from your colleagues? I want you to give assurance to the people out there today watching this, that they can have their cancer clinic?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, I speak to my colleagues every day.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is also for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

You chose to issue a press release on Christmas Eve, Mr. Speaker, with the news that the new health care facility for Grand Bank would be put on hold. I ask the minister on what basis she made the decision when a thorough analysis had been undertaken by all of the stakeholders involved, including officials in the Department of Health, about the need for this facility, and did she consult with the Premier who, on three occasions during the election, committed to completing the facility if he became Premier?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The decision to defer capital projects was a financial decision based on the status of the Province and the poor financial position in which the members opposite left the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, it is ironic that the minister keeps referring to the state of finances in which these members left the Province. How come it only applies to those areas where there are Liberal representatives? How come the Premier can stand up and commit to a long-term care facility in Corner Brook, while you are saying that ours had to be put on hold?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS E. MARSHALL: These capital projects will serve not only residents from Liberal districts but also residents from other districts. In addition, I would like to bring to the member's attention that we have closed two group homes, both of which were in PC districts.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister if there is any truth to the rumour that you are now going to be looking at taking down the steel that has been put up for this facility? I am really concerned about this. Three million dollars have been invested to date, and now I am being told that you are going to put out an edict to have the steel taken down. Is there any truth to this, Minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The decision on the Grand Bank clinic was that the clinic was deferred.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank, there is time for one more supplementary.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In light of the decisions taken by the government to put a hold on these new projects underway in rural parts of Newfoundland and Labrador, I am now going to ask the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, who has responsibility for helping Dr. House revitalize rural Newfoundland and Labrador, what this will mean in rural parts of this Province. You are taking away an opportunity for employment as well as good services. What is this going to mean to rural Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am happy to receive the question from the member, and I am pleased to answer it.

Unemployment remains the highest in the country, in Newfoundland and Labrador, and this department is going to work and focus now to build new partnerships, create a better business climate in this Province and foster economic development. We are already working on forming partnerships with people all over this Province who are interested in working with us. This department has done little or nothing in the last ten years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the minister to complete her answer.

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, the department has gone from an investment of $20 million in small businesses ten years ago to less than $2 million in the last four years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has expired.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to table fifteen special warrants for the fiscal year 2003-2004.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, this past week I issued a release listing all fifteen, the amounts, the departments there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I issued a release last week and listed all fifteen, and the amounts. They are all very clearly articulated in the release and they are here for tabling. I brought numerous copies, as I knew hon. members would love to have an opportunity to look at that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Under tabling of reports it is my duty to inform the House that pursuant to Section 5(4) of the Internal Economy Commission Act, the following appointments were made to the Commission of Internal Economy: The Member for Bonavista South, in his capacity as Deputy Speaker; the Member for Kilbride, in his capacity as Government House Leader; the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile, in his capacity as Opposition House Leader; the Member for Ferryland and the Member for Topsail in their capacities as Ministers of the Crown appointed by the Lieutenant-Governor in Council; the Member for Bellevue, in his capacity as a member of the Opposition; and the Speaker, as Chair of the Commission.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to present a Private Members' Motion:

WHEREAS Health Care is one of the essential services provided by a government to the people of this Province; and

WHEREAS there is a demonstrated need for improvements to health care services in many areas of this Province; and

WHEREAS in several cases improvements to health care facilities have been put on hold without sufficient explanation; and

WHEREAS the government has directed health care boards to produce cost-saving plans that will result in service cuts in many rural areas;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that Members of the House of Assembly call upon the government to reaffirm that health care is a priority item that cannot be compromised;

THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that Members of the House of Assembly call on government to proceed with all previously announced improvements to health care facilities as they were originally scheduled.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a petition here that I have already cleared with the Clerk of the House and I want to read the prayer of it:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, in parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth;

WHEREAS there is a definite need for improvements and expansions to the Bay d'Espoir medical clinic located in St. Albans; and

WHEREAS work on this facility has been announced and tendered by the previous government but work has since been put on hold by the current government;

THEREFORE the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House of Assembly to see this very important work on this health care facility proceed without further delay.

Mr. Speaker, I signed this petition and I felt obviously proud to be able to present it on behalf of my constituents, but I do not think I should have had to do that.

Mr. Speaker, this particular clinic expansion was part of last year's budgetary process. We had the unfortunate situation where the architect-engineer died suddenly with a heart attack last summer and, as a result of that, this particular project was delayed by about two months.

There were tenders called, by the way, Mr. Speaker, but it was not awarded and still has not been done. I find that this particular clinic here in St. Albans, which serves about 5,000 people, should be done, and I call upon the government to do it. I had the unfortunate position last week to have to go to that clinic myself for an EKG when I was in Bay d'Espoir. To go into that particular clinic and see what the nurses and doctors have to operate with in there is appalling. There is no privacy whatsoever.

The now clerk of the council, who was the Deputy Minister of Health at the time -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LANGDON: Let me finish now. I never found such arrogance in all my life than from the people who are sitting in the second row.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. LANGDON: At least you could give me an opportunity to present the petition.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. LANGDON: The crowd in the nosebleed section.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

When members are presenting petitions they are on a time limit. It would be helpful if members would permit the member to continue with his presentation without any significant interruptions.

The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was just presenting the case, as I thought, for the people in the area that I represent and I see the need for, and hopefully that government will go ahead and do it.

What I was saying is that these people, in that particular part of the Province, were isolated, were three hours from anywhere down on the coast. We need the facility. That is why it was done in the last budget and money provided for, and that is why I call upon government to make sure that it is done in this year's budget.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition from the people of the Southeast Coast of Labrador as it relates to the Williams Harbour road.

I will read the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, for the House of Assembly.

To the hon. House of Assembly in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in parliament assembly, the petition of the undersigned residents in the District of Cartwright-L'anse au Clair humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS Phase II of the Trans-Labrador Highway from Red Bay to Cartwright is now complete with access roads to St. Lewis, Charlottetown and Pinsent's Arm; and

WHEREAS there is over $100 million remaining in the Labrador Transportation Fund; and

WHEREAS the people of Williams Harbour have a sustainable community that will be open to many new opportunities and prosperity once connected to the Trans-Labrador Highway; and

WHEREAS government must recognize the social economic impacts in regions and communities like Williams Harbour and not solely on the economic recovery analysis presented by consultants;

WHEREFORE the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador should start building the road to Williams Harbour in 2004.

This is signed by a number of people, Mr. Speaker, in my district and it is a very important piece of infrastructure, very important for the community of Williams Harbour, as I know the minister and the Member for Lake Melville will certainly attest to having spent time in that area, understanding the particular region. The highway infrastructure in Labrador has been, through no small measure, a great effort of the people of my district and the people of Labrador in general.

Mr. Speaker, I was very proud to be a member of a district to see highways built to these communities for the first time in our lives, to see communities that came out of isolation and to be opened up to new opportunity and new avenues of economic development which we have never seen in our lives. Actually, I was kind of shocked when I heard the Minister for Innovation, Trade and Rural Development talk about nothing happening, when I live in a district where I have seen millions of dollars in investment in small business and hundreds of jobs created, Mr. Speaker, in the past eight years alone, simply because of transportation infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Williams Harbour are no different than any other small rural community anywhere in Newfoundland and Labrador, in any district that any member on the opposite side represents. They want to have access. They want to be able to be competitive in the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador and be full participants. It is about having a better lifestyle. It is about being able to build new business. It is about creating jobs and opportunity, affording a better education to their children. It is not all based on whether it is economically feasible. If you had to look at the economic feasibility of building roads to a lot of rural communities in this Province it would not have happened. It would never have happened. Mr. Speaker, the people of Williams Harbour have made a good case. They made a case to the government that I was a part of before the last election.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS JONES: Can I have leave just to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Has leave been granted?

MR. E. BYRNE: A few seconds, Mr. Speaker.

MS JONES: Thank you, Government House Leader.

They made a proposition to the previous government and they honoured that particular commitment. We saw the benefits in proceeding with this infrastructure. I can only ask, Mr. Speaker, that the current Minister of Transportation and Works can convince his Cabinet colleagues to see the same light, to continue with this particular development and see the people of Williams Harbour get twenty kilometres of road to connect them to a Trans-Labrador Highway at a cost that could be less than $6 million.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition signed by a number of people concerning the coverage of MS drug prescriptions for people of our Province. I will take a second to read the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker:

WHEREAS In 1998 the Province provided funding for four new MS drugs; and

WHEREAS the Newfoundland and Labrador Prescription Drug Plan only provides medication coverage for seniors under the seniors' drug plan and for people on income support; and

WHEREAS these drugs can cost between $1,800 and $3,600 a month; and

WHEREAS all other citizens in Canada can receive assistance with the high cost of MS drugs using a co-payment and a sliding scale system, not limited to social assistance income levels; and

WHEREAS these drugs can significantly improve the quality of life for people with MS;

We, the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to direct the government to implement a co-payment or sliding scale program for drugs used to treat MS so that people who do not qualify for assistance under the existing programs can get financial assistance with these high cost drugs, as is the case in every other Canadian province.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I have risen many times in this House of Assembly and addressed the petition on this issue. It is ridiculous, I say to the government opposite, that people in this Province have to reduce themselves, hard-working people, to income support levels in order to get assistance with an illness that they did not ask for or inflict on themselves. No other jurisdiction in this country, no other province in this country requires its citizens to inflict this type of financial hardship on them and their families to treat an illness.

Mr. Speaker, it is ridiculous, I say to the government, that people in this Province who may have saved some money for their children's education, have to use that money to buy a prescription drug. It is ridiculous that people who have saved RRSPs, who have worked hard to save for their retirement, are now required to spend those RRSPs on purchasing a drug to treat their illness. We are the only Province that allows or requires our residents to be under a system that is inhumane when it comes to their finances.

Now, Mr. Speaker, some people in this Province have to make a choice between providing their families basic needs and treating their own illness. I can tell you, because I know some of these people, they would go without the medical treatment that they require simply to provide the other basics of life that their families need in order to exist in our society.

Mr. Speaker, not too long ago the previous Administration announced a program where Alzheimer's drugs would be covered. This Administration, in a short period of time that they have been in power, have put that on hold and everything is under review again. Well, I say to the government, it is not a review that we need, and it is not time buying that we need. People in this Province are hurting financially because of an illness that they have inherited and they need help and assistance from this government. It is ironic, Mr. Speaker, that when this government was in Opposition, each and every time -

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. COLLINS: By leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker.

Each and every time that I rose to present this petition the government of the day, which were then the Opposition, agreed 100 per cent with what I had to say.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave to finish his statement?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. COLLINS: I ask them now, the support that they showed at that time, put it into action, start treating the people of our Province as previous provinces and other provinces treat the people in their own respective provinces. Do not be the only people out on a limb that is putting this undo financial burden on the hard-working men and women of this Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 1, second reading of a bill, An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act." (Bill 1).

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased this afternoon to introduce Bill 1, An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act; an act that is important for all of us, I would say, in this hon. House. It is certainly important for the 30,000-plus post-secondary students; those in full-time studies today in our Province and those who have completed their studies, have graduated from a post-secondary institution and are now in some form of repayment. It is certainly important for those individuals. I would say this is good legislation, Mr. Speaker, and this is good news for the public of our Province. In particular, for the 30,000-plus post-secondary students who support what is being done by virtue of Bill 1.

Mr. Speaker, it is certainly a goal of our government to ensure that post-secondary participation throughout our Province, throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, is the highest in the country and that all students who are involved and participate in the post-secondary experience achieve credentials that will ensure for them a bright future, and hope for the future. Hopefully, the majority of them finding that hope and that employment experience in our own Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

As a government, Mr. Speaker, we are certainly mindful of the debt experiences and what insurmountable debt means to so many of our post-secondary students; those who are presently enrolled as a full-time student and those who are in some form of repayment, they know all too well. As parents, or as neighbors or as aunts or uncles or grandparents or friends of these students, because they know we know. We know what they experience and we know what it means to have an insurmountable debt burden on their shoulders. We live with it everyday as their parents and as their neighbors and as their relatives.

It is important, therefore, Mr. Speaker, that as a government we do what we can to assist them, and that is essentially what Bill 1 does. It provides a mechanism to allow as a result of integration, which was a process that was put forward and I had the extreme pleasure, just several weeks ago as the Minister of Education, to participate in a signed agreement between two levels of government - namely our own provincial government and my federal counterpart - to enter into a signed agreement by which the loan mechanism for students in this Province is now an integrated mechanism, it is an integrated portfolio, and the advantage of that, Mr. Speaker, can be put simply in saying: one student, one loan. There are mechanisms by which are found and supported in this act which helps facilitate that. I will get to that in a moment, Mr. Speaker, when we get into some of the more pertinent points and relative features of this piece of legislation, which will show the people of this Province why Bill 1 is an important piece of legislation, and why I would submit and request that it would be supported unanimously in this House.

After considerable consultation and deliberation, Mr. Speaker, there were changes, as I have just indicated, which would help ensure there are ways that can facilitate methods and ways by which students can repay their loans. This Bill 1, as indicated, helps to achieve that.

It is interesting to note that the integration process and the agreement that was signed several weeks ago was an agreement that was supported wholeheartedly by the Canadian Federation of Students. In fact, the local President of that organization, Mr. Keith Dunne, was present at the press conference and spoke publicly with a number of members on both sides of this House in support of this particular integration procedure. I would like to publicly commend Mr. Dunne and the Canadian Federation of Students for their support and their endorsement of the whole integration process.

Mr. Speaker, these measures are helping to address the problem of student debt, particularly those students with high financial need. As a government, we are very proud of our work in keeping educational costs affordable through the tuition freeze which was announced just a while ago. It was important for us that we continue that particular practice, which is why it was announced several of weeks ago, that the continuation of the implementation of the tuition freeze would continue for the benefit of our post-secondary students.

By way of background, Mr. Speaker, in 2001 the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce - which was the chartered bank or the chartered agent dealing with student loans - put the Province on notice that it would no longer be the lender, that it would no longer participate in the student loan formula, and that what would now take place is that the government had to find other ways, other than CIBC, because simply put, the bank put the Province on notice that it would no longer participate. Therefore, the Province had to undertake a series of approaches to find new institutions, new lenders, that would help facilitate the thousands and thousands, and tens of thousands of students in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, in achieving their student loan experience.

The legislation that we are addressing today, Mr. Speaker, provides the provincial government authority to continue with the student loans program, and in a nutshell, Mr. Speaker, we become the lender. The Province becomes the lender, and the arrangements we have secured for these loans will ultimately improve loan servicing for students.

The Province will continue to determine eligibility, Mr. Speaker, for student loans and will continue to set our provincial loan policies, and that is important because polices as it relates to interest relief, for example, or grants in aid that may be available to our post-secondary students, these sorts of policies will continue to be determined by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we will continue to have jurisdiction over such important policies as it relates to our post-secondary students.

The provincial office of Student Financial Services which presently is at Coughlan College on the campus of Memorial University, will remain the same level and will keep the same level of service that it presently provides. It also means that the Province will establish its own lending authority to become the direct lender of these loans. I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, if there is one focus of this bill, of Bill 1, it is essentially the creating of, and the establishing of, the funding authority, the legal authority by which this Province, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, can borrow money and ultimately distribute money to the students of our Province.

The legislation authorizes the establishment of such a corporation that will be called - and I am sure members opposite are familiar with this - the Student Loan Corporation of Newfoundland and Labrador. Essentially, it is that Corporation which will serve and act as the Province's banker for these loans. So, we have in a sense, by virtue of this legislation, created an agency, Mr. Speaker, that will be established to act essentially as the banker in lieu of CIBC. The Loan Corporation, the Student Loan Corporation of Newfoundland and Labrador, will be a separate legal entity whose job and mandate will be to facilitate in the borrowing of these funds and essentially the distributing of these funds in lieu of what we had several years ago, and essentially up until the end of this month, actually, namely a chartered bank, and in particular the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.

This whole arrangement, what has been contemplated, Mr. Speaker, from a time point of view, is that this arrangement will come into effect as of the end of March, March 31, of this year. That is why it is important that this piece of legislation be debated. I look forward to debate by my colleagues opposite, but it is important, as well, that we ensure that this legislation be in place to assist in that transfer of responsibility from a chartered bank to this Newfoundland and Labrador Student Loan Corporation.

Some of the main highlights, Mr. Speaker, that are featured in Bill 1 are: that the Student Loan Corporation will be required to provide a full and complete accounting of the Student Loan Program costs to the Province. So, there will be that openness. There will be that information made available to the public. It is important. It is important to know what this exercise obviously is costing the public of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Student Loan Corporation will be required to provide annual audited financial statements which will be tabled in this House of Assembly for all members to see and to share, obviously, with the public of the Province.

The Student Loan Corporation will have authority to borrow monies to finance the student loans issued to students with the Province guaranteeing the full performance of Student Loan Corporation obligations.

The Corporation will allow for loan conditions to be established by regulation, allows for regulations to govern the transfer of the existing student loans from CIBC to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and facilitates loan administration with loans under the Canada Student Loans Program.

These changes that we are recommending and are being submitted as part and parcel of Bill 1, Mr. Speaker, ensure that the Corporation will report to me, as the Minister of Education, with its board of directors being comprised of three individuals, namely: the Deputy Minister of Education as Chair, the Deputy Minister of Finance, and the Secretary of Treasury Board.

As I have indicated, Mr. Speaker, and in summary, we require that these legislative changes take effect no later than March 31, 2004, to allow for the proper transfer of approximately $220 million in loans to the Province from CIBC.

As indicated earlier as well, that date is critical because it is that date when CIBC has given this Province notice that it is no longer in the student loan business. That date is critical. That is perhaps why, I say to members opposite, it is Bill 1 and why today we are in second reading of Bill 1, An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act.

Mr. Speaker, as I said a few moments ago, this is good news. This is good news for the post-secondary students of our Province. It was recognized by members opposite as good news because, in fact, they were the government when CIBC placed the Province on notice. It was recognized by members opposite that this was a procedure that had to be carried out. It is certainly recognized by members on this side of the House and recognized by all government members as well, Mr. Speaker, that this is good news, because who will benefit? It will be our students. It will be one application, it will be one loan payment, it will be one service provider. It helps streamline and facilitate what is for many people, Mr. Speaker, a very difficult and a very long drawn out experience: How do you go about it? How do you fill out application forms?

What this does is, it helps facilitate what ordinarily and customarily is a difficult process for many of our post-secondary students. It facilitates the experience and, Mr. Speaker, again, the focus of Bill 1 is that this legislation will create and establish a new corporation, a Student Loan Corporation of Newfoundland and Labrador, a separate legal entity which will essentially borrow and ultimately distribute funds to our many thousands of post-secondary students of the Province.

As I have indicated, Mr. Speaker, it is good news. It has been supported by our students. It has been supported, I know, by members opposite because in many way they were part of having received notice that this, in fact, was going to be done. I give members opposite some credit, that they have taken some steps to initiate this procedure. I say that because it is important to some 30,000 students of our Province that this be facilitated and put in place.

Mr. Speaker, it is customary, of course, that during second reading we debate this legislation and I am sure that members on both sides of the House will want, in some way, to talk about either Bill 1 or some feature of the student loan experience which is important to him or her. I do thank members opposite and members on this side of the House for allowing me to have this opportunity to introduce Bill 1, an important, serious piece of legislation for the people of our Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: The first bill of our government.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Yes, it is the first bill of our government.

MR. E. BYRNE: That is how important it is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: My colleague, the Government House Leader, said: That is how important it is.

What we are doing in Bill 1, we are paying tribute to the future of our Province -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: - by putting in place what is in the best interest of the young people of our Province, the post-secondary students of our Province, who are saying to us as a government: Please complete this procedure to ensure that what we have to live with in the whole student loan experience is assisted, is impacted upon, and is improved.

In conclusion, I would submit to all members, Mr. Speaker, that Bill 1 does that and I now look forward to participation from members opposite in this important debate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am actually delighted to stand and speak to Bill 1 today, because again it is another Liberal initiative, as my colleague the Minister of Education so rightly pointed out, and I am delighted to stand because, being the former Minister of Youth and Post-Secondary Education, I actually did all the groundwork on this particular bill.

MR. E. BYRNE: Are you supporting the bill?

MS THISTLE: You will find out my support as time rolls on, I say to the Government House Leader.

What I would like to say firstly, Mr. Speaker, is that what the Minister of Education neglected to mention - he talked about a very important date, March 31, that this would have to be done by - but what he neglected to mention was that there was an option that government could exercise in this case. They did not have to go with March 31; they could have gone with April 1. It would only be a matter of the government of the day writing CIBC and letting them know that they wanted to exercise that option.

Despite numerous requests through freedom of information, right up until today, I do not have the information that I wanted in relation to this particular bill. I have been denied, Mr. Speaker.

I asked for my Cabinet Paper. I spoke to the Clerk of the Council, wanting to get my Cabinet Paper to go over the Cabinet direction that our previous Administration had used for this Cabinet decision, and I have been denied my Cabinet Paper.

Is this an open and accountable government? Is this a transparent government? What kind of a book was it you put out? What kind of a book did this government put out? Wait now just a minute, I think it was called the Tory Blue Book. No, scratch that off; it is called the Tory blueprint. That is what it is called. Your new Premier wants to call it the blueprint.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, could I have some peace and quite here to discuss this matter?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, you are talking about the 100 days of the new government. In the 100 days of the previous new government there was a new Department of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education set up. It was set up because young people came to us and said: We want our issues aired. Youth, education and employment are so important in our Province, we want our own separate youth and post-secondary education.

Now, what did the new government do in their first 100 days? They gutted the new Youth and Post-Secondary Education Department. That is what they did, they gutted it. Good-bye. That is what they did.

You talk about $220 million. What is the real reason you are here today wanting this to get done by March 31? Tell me, what is the real reason? Is it to justify this? PricewaterhouseCoopers, $115,000 to get this so-called independent external financial study done. They spent all of their time getting that information from your staff. You know what? I have to question you on that later.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the members if we could have the discussion and direct the discussion through the Speaker. Exchanges across the House, and pointing at one another, this kind of thing, are inappropriate. I ask the member to continue her debate and ask the indulgence of the members here that it be done in some silence.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Anyway, as I was saying, this $220 million, I do not think we can call that a debt. We can call that an investment in our students. Let me tell you, that is not going to remain on our books. That is going to be repaid. Yes, we have a default rate; everybody knows that. Everybody knows we have a default rate in student loans, but the majority of that money is going to be paid off. You have an option as the government. You can put that on your books for March 31, or by goodness you can put it on for April 1. It is your choice, but it is all about justifying this report so you can inflate the cash deficit.

Getting back to Bill 1, as I said previously, being the former Minister of Youth and Post-Secondary Education, all of the groundwork was done by the former Administration. You just had to sign on the dotted line. What is very important is that this will streamline the business for students in this Province, and I will agree with you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: I will agree with you, that is the main thrust of this bill, so students can have one payment to make; however, you said that you were going to improve the well-being of students in this Province. Did it take a protest by students to get you to freeze the tuition?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: Oh, yes, it did! It took a protest, placards and protests all around the Province to bring this government to their knees and say: Okay, we will freeze tuition. Whereas, the former government were able to provide a 25 per cent reduction in tuition fees at MUN.

I wonder if the Finance Minister would be so quick to jump to his heels now and say that he did not have the lowest tuition rate in Canada? Because we do have the lowest rate of tuition in Canada, at our Memorial University.

I want to say that the idea of us, as a Province, having to take on the commitment of student loans is one we did not anticipate, but it is a trend by the big banks these days, they are getting out of that business. They would rather be doing other business, more lucrative business. As a Province, we always had to guarantee that $220 million, whether it was on our books or the books of any major chartered bank. Really, it is a transfer as such but I do not know what the hoopla is about. In one sense it is adding to our deficit, but it is being repaid. From the moment we take it and put it on our books, students are starting to make payments on that debt.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say some of the remarks by the Minister of Education. He said, we are trying to enhance the quality of education and give students hope for the future. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if this new government will give the students the attention they deserve. While we were government we had a group called the Newfoundland and Labrador Youth Advisory Committee. That was a very important committee, and it should be today. Many of the changes that were brought about over the past couple of years happened because students on this Committee gave us information when we were a government and we put it into action.

Another thing, Mr. Speaker: We have a conservation corp out here that does a lot of good work. There is a budget line in - I guess it will be called the Department of Education now - in the former budget that gave this group $500,000 a year. I wonder now, Mr. Speaker, will this new government, that you and your colleagues represent, being paying attention to the conservation corp?

You say, Minister of Education, that you will be establishing an new entity called the student loan corporation of Newfoundland and Labrador. I notice that you have indicated that you have a three-member group on this new entity, the Deputy Minister of Education, the Deputy Minister of Finance and the Secretary of Treasury Board. Isn't this new bill all about students? Wouldn't it seem appropriate that a representative of students be on this particular entity? That will be one of the amendments that I will be suggesting as we move forward with discussing this bill.

You talk about streamlining the process! It is funny, you know, when we started out on this adventure about eighteen months ago, in trying to find a lender who would accommodate us and take the student loan portfolio, we looked all around, we did requests for proposals and we ended up not finding the proper, I guess, accommodation until we decided later that we would join forces with the federal government and end up with one payment for students which is the ideal one.

Students don't really mind how the bookkeeping aspect is performed. The only interest they have is getting their student loan, getting it on time, getting a good interest rate - actually, they would rather have grants than loans - making sure they are able to get their payments made and making their payments conveniently. That is all students want, and I think this is a good choice for students.

I wanted to expound on some of the positive things that have led to this. I would like to talk about some of the things that we were able to bring to students from the former administration. The last revamp of student loans was actually August, 2002, by the former Minister of Youth and Post-Secondary Education. That did not happen by chance. That happened because students around the Province came to us, as the former administration, and they said: We want changes made, huge changes. This is what happened: Because of all those changes in August, 2002, students will readily tell you, we are setting the model right across the country.

In fact, last June I had a meeting with Jane Stewart, at that time, and I told her about all the things that we had done for students in our Province. I said: You know, a federal election is looming within the next twelve months. Why don't you bring this information to your counterparts and see if the federal government can make the same changes? Because one of the biggest problems was that we did all that we could do, as a Province, in providing, actually, free tuition, in a sense. If they got through their undergraduate degree in the right time frame, their loan was virtually paid off on the provincial side, but I think it is high time that the federal government look at what we have done as a Province and make those changes. Now is the time to do it. When you ask students, that is the number one issue on their plates: student borrowings, student education and the cost of education.

Some of the things that we have been able to do is that we have made student loans more affordable. Students are eligible for student loans for the normal length of a program plus we give them a grace period of up to two semesters. In addition to that, if students have problems with disabilities, or if you are a single parent, there are provisions for appeal for all of these that were not in it two years ago.

I think what is very important is that we have had a great record of providing quality education. I had occasion recently to talk to some medical students and it is interesting how times have changed over the past ten years. Once the greatest makeup of applicants to our medical program were males, and now 60 per cent of the applicants in our medical school are females. Look how the tables have turned and things have reversed. You know, in our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, we graduate the most general practitioners out of any other medical school in the country.

I want to say how proud I am of our board at the Central West Health Care Board. We have had the best record of recruiting family practitioners. The other boards are not aware of what we are doing, but our people are going right in there, to medical school. They are telling them what a great lifestyle we have in Central Newfoundland and they are accommodating them. I think that has been the main thing, in that we have been so successful in attracting new doctors to Central Newfoundland and we have not had much of a problem in being without doctors for a very long period.

Another thing that we have been able to bring in as a former Administration - I do not know if students in the future will have the ear for government as they did in the past - having a separate department just for young people, for youth and post-secondary education, and not only youth and post-secondary education because there are so many facets to youth and post-secondary education. There is also employment. There was a committee called the Student Investment Corporation that looks after all of the summer employment for students, and even full-time employment. These are all good things that have come about through our former Administration.

It will be interesting to watch the Budget Debate, some time in April. That is an unusual step in itself. I do not know if I ever saw a provincial Budget being delayed to April of any particular year, but I am sure that they have their reasons for it and hopefully there will be something good come out of that Budget for students.

We have been so successful in the past in providing employment for students throughout the summer through our Student Investment Corporation. Of course, most of the jobs that are provided for students come out of rural Newfoundland. I do not know if it will get the same focus in Cabinet this year, because I know that most of the makeup of Cabinet for this new government would be basically out of St. John's and urban Newfoundland and Labrador. Oh, no, forget Labrador, excuse me. There is no Cabinet representation from Labrador. I almost made a mistake. Sorry about that.

The Cabinet decisions that will be made in the upcoming Budget in April will be made by Cabinet Ministers that represent urban Newfoundland. Isn't that amazing? How do people in rural Newfoundland feel, knowing that the decisions that are going to be made, that are going to affect rural Newfoundland - we have already heard it in the Throne Speech, that the new government are looking at ways they can deliver health care more effective and more efficient -

AN HON. MEMBER: Openly.

MS THISTLE: Openly. We know what more effective and more efficient mean. We know what those two words are.

MR. REID: We know what Ross Wiseman means when he talks about, we have to look for efficiencies.

MS THISTLE: We know what that means. That means that this new government are no doubt directing health care in urban centres and they are shutting down rural Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what that means. That is exactly what that means. So, if I were out in rural Newfoundland and Labrador today - and I represent a portion of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Urban and rural is my district, so I well know what it is like to represent both sides of the equation, and how important health care is.

This government claims that they are facing a financial mess. Well, well, well! They have been on their heels here for years demanding money, every day of the week that the House was open and the days it was not open. I can stand up on my heels today and I can proudly say that I make no apologizes for any money that was spent in the District of Grand Falls-Buchans.

A new mobile MRI for Central Newfoundland, do you think we will ever see a mobile MRI in Central Newfoundland? Do you think we will ever see that? A $10 million seniors care home in Grand Falls-Windsor, called Carmelite; a new $100,000 in provincial funding for a new YMCA child learning centre.

Now, dialysis, bone density machines, water and sewer, new water for Buchans -

MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

I am always interested to hear members of this House, but I do have to ask this question: What does water and sewer have to do with a Student Financial Assistance Act and a student loan agency?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: For example, what does water and sewer have to do with the bill we are debating? Now, if the member wants to debate water and sewer we will give her the opportunity when we get to Interim Supply, but today we are debating the future of students in Newfoundland and Labrador, Bill 1, the Student Financial Assistance Act.

Let me say this finally, Mr. Speaker, the member has asked the question: Will we ever see a mobile MRI in Grand Falls-Buchans? Let me ask her this, from 1996 to 2003 she was a member of the government and a minister of Cabinet: Is there one during your tenure?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair rules that there is no point of order. However, the Chair would like to refer members to Marleau and Montpetit, which is on page 532, where it says: There is some temptation in second reading to delve into other issues.

I ask the member, in terms of being relevant, that she should either show relevancy or it should be obvious to the members of the House.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I guess it is quite clear (inaudible) House of Assembly. Let me tell you, I grew up in rural Newfoundland and if you do not have water and sewer services, as a student you cannot learn very well.

I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that students in this Province are better off today as a result of a Liberal government, and they are better off because they have the best tuition in the country. They have tuition rates frozen at the College of the North Atlantic, the Marine Institute, and Memorial University Medical School. Now, isn't that wonderful? We can get up on our feet, all of us in this House today, and say that we have the lowest tuition rate in the country; with the exception of Quebec, Mr. Minister of Finance.

In fact, taxation year 2003 brought another feature, and that was the Newfoundland and Labrador student loan tax credit. Every student who files their income tax this year, and pays on a student loan in this Province, has a chance to get a deduction.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak here.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: How things have changed in the matter of a few months! Now I expect if your Premier were here I would be able to hear a pin drop.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: Last year was a wonderful year for student employment. Already (inaudible) applications have gone out. I think there are a lot of questions out there in the general public today: Will students get jobs this summer? How much money is this new government going to put into student employment? Do you look at it as a priority, or will you expect the private sector to pick it up? How can you expect the private sector to pick it up when you dampened the economy January 5? They are still reeling. They are not going to hire anybody new until they find out what is in that budget and they are not going to find that out until - when is it? April or May is it?

AN HON. MEMBER: I do not know.

MS THISTLE: April or May, I think. By that time, if you are going to do anything for tourism it will be well done.

I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that over 7,000 people - and they are all students - in our Province have been helped through student employment since 2001. I am very proud, and we are very proud of that record. I am very proud of the fact that no matter what kind of a call I got from the Opposition, while I was the member I did my utmost to make sure that those member's constituents got jobs, and I hope you will be just as accommodating to us in the spring.

Mr. Speaker, I want to get back to the so-called importance of March 31, 2004. On our own student loan application, that you can just print off our Web site, it says: the deadline for applying for a student loan is four weeks from the first day of classes for the current semester. Everybody knows that if you are a full-time student in this Province you have already made your application last August and September. The third semester, it requires a supplementary application. You have already been approved last summer, so there is no panic to get this done by March 31. But, as a new government -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

MS THISTLE: As a new government you have chosen to make sure that this was done by March 31, not to accommodate students because it makes zero effect to students. It is all about accommodating - what is this report? PricewaterhouseCoopers - all about accommodating this report.

We had an economist from university and he said it is not new news, none of this stuff. He said all of these predictions about a $1 billion deficit is too misleading. He said I have no notion exactly what the consultants were told.

MR. SULLIVAN: Which economist?

MS THISTLE: Never mind, you will find out.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: These consultants very clearly say in their report: If nothing changes we may be looking at these kinds of deficits.

As a new government you campaigned on a new approach to growing the economy. Yet, you went out and told your consultant: Put the reins on, we are not going to grow the economy. We are not going to grow the economy. Listen, we need those figures to stay black - yes, we would like them to be black. We want those figures negative. We do not want you to say that our economy is going to grow, because that is going to affect those bottom line figures. It is going to look too good. We do not want you to do that. You know something? We want you, Mr. Consultant -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

They hired this economist, and they say: Now listen, do not just call it a financial review of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We want more meat on the bones than that. We have a tough sell here. We want to make it something special. He said, go back again. He said, go back.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: He said, okay, here is your title: directions, choices and touch choices. Now run with that and sell it. Run with it and sell it.

That was not enough -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) notes.

MS THISTLE: I am not going back to any notes; I am going back to your notes. I am not going back to any notes. I do not need any notes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: This is another, PricewaterhouseCoopers. You only asked for the financial picture of the Province, and this is what they put in their report: Areas of concern include, deterioration of the Province's budgetary performance during an election year. Now, what business is that of a consultant? You only asked for the figures; you did not ask for that extra text.

Today we are standing here talking about Bill 1, a bill for the students of this Province, the Student Financial Assistance Act, and the bill is a good bill.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: The bill is a bill that I initiated, and my former government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS THISTLE: It was not one that was in the making. First you had a Blue Book, but no, that might hold you accountable if you had a Blue Book. You want to call it a blueprint, so it could be changing every minute. I think everybody should read it because with six months in office you have not gotten much of this completed yet. Six months in office, I think you can count on one hand what you have been able to do, and that one hand was forced by this side over here.

MR. SULLIVAN: Where did you get six months? Six months would be (inaudible).

MS THISTLE: You are into your sixth month. You are the Finance Minister. You are into your sixth month and you have not gotten anything done in that book yet.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: Relax, we have lots of time here.

I was surprised, Mr. Speaker, that the House Leader for the Government side stood in this House on Thursday and he gave Notice of Motion that we would be sitting morning, noon and night.

AN HON. MEMBER: He never said morning.

MS THISTLE: Yes he did. He said he was not going to close Sunday. If he is not going to close Sunday, how do you get out of the morning?

AN HON. MEMBER: Afternoon and night.

MS THISTLE: Well, if you are working the clock twenty-four hours you have to come into morning sometime.

Now, I cannot understand this.

MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Is the member complaining because we are going to give her all the time she needs and every other member the time to debate stuff? We come here to work. We are going to open the House -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: The people of the Province sent this government here to do work and guess what folks? We intend on doing it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Now if that means, Mr. Speaker, that we open up from 1:30 p.m to 5:30 p.m. and from 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. and from 10:00 p.m. to 10:00 the next morning, guess what? We are going to do that too.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. There is a disagreement between members but there is no substantive point of order.

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls- Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, it is very important that the Government House Leader stood on his feet and said that he is going to put his shoulder to the wheel and he is going to be here as long as it takes. Well, now, that is a big change from the article that was in Maclean's where your leader had no interest in being in the House. In fact, we are into our sixth month now and this is day one of real business. So, let me tell you what is the panic now for morning, noon and night?, when you could have been here last November.

AN HON. MEMBER: A lot to straighten up.

MS THISTLE: If you had a lot to straighten up you should have been here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: Then again you would not know that, you do not get in on any caucus information, I heard.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: Got a radio here, and The Telegram and some print media. You would never know what was going on, according to the January 5 speech, when you had to find out after the televison what your Premier was going to say.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of amendments that I intend to bring forward in the next reading probably.

What I wanted to say is that the Education Minister today talked about a three-party committee, and that is totally within government. No student representation. I cannot imagine how you would leave out the representation of the main user of the program, the students. Anyway, that is what this House is for, to have thoughtful debate amongst the people who are standing in the House and representing people, and that will an the amendment that I will be offering, probably during the next reading.

You say that the Student Loan Corporation will have to provide full accountability to the Province, but yet you did not describe how that accountability would be. I know that there is a role for investment of those funds. That was not described as to what safeguards and mechanisms which would be put into this bill with regard to investment of that huge portfolio. Hopefully, you will be able to give us clarification on that matter in the days to come.

The Minister of Education spoke about what the new Tory government is doing to assist students reduce their debt burdens. This particular bill will not reduce student debt burden. It is going to be a convenience for students but it will not write off any debts that they had in the past. It will be just a transfer from one entity to the other. So that, in itself, will not reduce any student debt burden, I would like to mention to the Minister of Education. Yes, it is one student, one loan, and that is a convenience. Students are not concerned about the actual bookkeeping, the administration. They want to know that if they make a payment it will go on their loan and someone else can look after the bookkeeping part.

Consultations that you said you did. Who did you consult with? We had all the groundwork done. Everything was done. There was no consultation on your part. To the best of my knowledge, all you had to do was sign on a line.

Again, you said your government is proud of what they have done to reduce student debt. You held the line on tuition. You did not reduce it any further. You held the line. You froze tuition. You did not reduce it any further. So, I guess that is leaving you room to make that new announcement in your Budget of April or May, whenever it is.

The Province, in essence, has always been the guarantor of that money, no matter which chartered bank held it on their books. In case of default, we were always responsible. In case of service fees for administering that particular portfolio, the Province was always responsible. What we have now is, yes, we are now going to be the main banker. All other situations will remain the same. I would think what you are trying to do now is improve federal-provincial relations.

One of the first things that you should tackle would be parental requirement on student loans. Many parents today are saddled with the burden of having to get a line of credit or a personal loan to assist their sons and daughters because they do not get approved for a student loan because of the parents income level.

So I would suggest that would be a starting point, if you are trying to improve federal-provincial relations. Go to them and see if they can make an adjustment in that, because we see lots of times today - it might sound like a working couple, a husband and wife are making a good income, but everybody who has a mortgage and other commitments today to take care of, it would be very difficult to have to go outside of the normal student loan process and get a line of credit or a bank loan to make sure your student is able to go to university or a training college.

I have had people call me, they are harnessed to death with mortgages and loans on their own. Parents have actually had to max out their credit cards to go and finance a tuition of education for their son or daughter. I know it is currently beyond the Province's ability to make those changes because the Province always looks at the rules for the federal government. That would be a great starting point and it would be a terrific benefit for young people if you could convince the federal government to make changes in that direction. That would be worthwhile and meaningful for students and parents in this Province.

Also, I want to talk a bit about the fact of disabled students in this Province. They now have a chance to have their loans paid off, or repaid in full for an undergraduate degree. They have more time than a person who is physically able to complete an undergraduate degree in the eight semesters. This is one of the great things that came to our attention from the Youth Advisory Board, the Federation of Students, and many other student groups.

When you look at the fact that the students in our Province are doing well, no matter where they go, we are - there is a report called Fast Forward that I put out when I was the Minister of Youth and Post-Secondary Education. Out of the tracking of five years of our post-secondary students, do you know something? Eighty-six percent of those students were employed. Lots of time you hear that we have the highest unemployment rate in all of Canada, but when you compare what it was from 1996 to today, there have been great strides made in employment. A lot of young people are deciding to stay in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I can tell you one thing, that speech of January 5 by your Premier, our Premier, was certainly disheartening for young people and those who are choosing to make their careers and live in Newfoundland and Labrador and raise a family. There was absolutely nothing in that speech that would give anybody any hope to put down roots in our Province.

Out of the report that was tracking students for five years, there were 6,900 graduates whom we tracked in there, and 86 per cent of them were employed and only 7 per cent were unemployed. Out of that 7 per cent, 3 per cent were trying to improve their education and 4 per cent said that they were in activities they didn't like and were going to try to get out of that job situation and further their education. In 2000-2001, 86 per cent of the graduates reported employment. You know, that was up from 68 per cent in 1996.

There are a lot of good measures already in place for students in our Province. I think students, when you talk to them - I have been into MUN several times and I have talked to students, I have talked to students all over this Province and they will tell you, the most important thing they are troubled with is the cost of education.

Now, the former administration that I was a part of, and everybody over here, made great strides in making sure that our post-secondary students had accessible and affordable education. You know, there is only so much you can do as a Province, no matter what stripe your government is. I feel proud standing here today, when I can rhyme off - and all students will tell you, you ask the Federation of Students, you ask any students in this Province, it is easier for them to get an education today because of the changes that were made. We still need improvement. Students still need to have more grant systems rather than loans. If you ask a student what would ensure them a brighter future and a better education they will say, we want free education, but, you know, we are not there yet. We cannot provide free education, we do not have the financial means.

What we have been able to do, in the past three years especially, is make it a little bit easier, entice students to complete their studies sooner than they have in the past. By doing that, we have been able to reward them and actually pay off their students loans if they finished on time.

For unusual cases, there has been an appeal mechanism where students who might have had a medical problem, a family issue, a disability, any number of those things, could actually come to the appeal board, state their case and nine times out of ten they would have their appeal approved.

What can we do, or what can you do, you are now the government? I think you have to look at who will be here to run this Province in the next years. We all know that by 2030, one-third of the people in this Province will be over sixty-five. Now, the people of the Province spoke on October 21, 2003. You have an overwhelming majority of members in your government for the first time in fourteen years. I think the only one who did better was former Premier Brian Tobin. He had more members, by two, I believe, than your government where you sit now today. The people have spoken, they have given you a tremendous mandate. Thirty-two members you have there on your side of the House and all eyes are on your side of the House to deliver, in a fine fashion, a new economy as you talked about in your Blue Book.. There is a lot of weight, a lot of responsibility, on your shoulders and I think it would be arrogant on your part to dismiss the needs of the people. I saw that today in Question Period. I was surprised, I was very surprised, because when you were the Opposition and we were the government that was the first thing that you took us to task on, not giving full answers. Today, I was surprised by the arrogance shown by your government. I hope that is not what the people of this Province will see in the days ahead, because if you are going to have the people of the Province on your side, as you got October 21, you have to show a compassionate side.

Health care in this Province is the number one issue, no matter where you go. You can ask it in my district and I bet you if you asked it - maybe it would not be in St. John's, maybe it would not be on the Avalon Peninsula, because everything you need is here. You do not need to go anywhere else unless there is such a complicated -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: I do not think you need to go outside of our Province, but for people from the Northern Peninsula, for people from Labrador, for people from Buchans, for people from Burin, for people from the South Coast, all of those people have to come to St. John's one time or another to get specialized services, so maybe it is not as important. The Centre of Learning is here in St. John's.

As a university committee in Central Newfoundland we had hoped that we would establish a Central Newfoundland university in Grand Falls-Windsor. The study is now complete. I know that study might already be on your desks today as I speak. Our current Mayor, Mayor Walwin Blackmore, headed that committee and he did tremendous work along with many other volunteers. Grand Falls-Windsor has been seen as a catalyst for growth in recent years and we are turning out a lot of students. We have a great need for an expansion to our university presence there. Whether we will see it through your mandate is debatable at this point, but I will tell you that the young people of our Province are the ones who are going to lead us to economic prosperity. You have put the first nail in the coffin by eliminating them from a separate department of their own.

I would say to you in all sincerity that, as I said before, one-third of the population in 2030 is going to be age sixty-five and over. Pay special attention to the young people of this Province. Go back and say to your Premier to come out with good news.

The speech of January 5 did nothing for young people in their plight to stay in this Province. I would say if you want the young people in this Province to stay here and build their future so they can look after you and I and many others in senior homes, and make us prosperous, you want to do all you can for young people in this Province, and I have not seen it yet.

AN HON. MEMBER: Do you support the bill?

MS THISTLE: I agree with the bill. I will let you know in due course.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: I will let you know in due course.

It is a bill that the former government would have been standing in this House, maybe not today because there was no urgency to do it until April 1, but we would have been standing. Had we formed a government, we would have been standing in this House to bring forward a similar bill, which much of the same criteria.

In closing, I would like to sit back and listen to the debate, it is an important one, and see what others have to say on this important bill.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this is an important piece of legislation. It is a situation that was presented to government some time ago where the banks have said: We are out of the student loan system. We are out of the student loan business.

Government inherited the situation by where we need to be back in the business. For one reason, Mr. Speaker, so that we as a government and as a people can protect the students of the Province. That is the only interest that we have.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I want to deal with a couple of points the critic made. She talked about, if they were the government, that they would probably deal with a situation like this or they would have put a bill something like this before the Table. Let's review the facts, and let's review the truth, because the facts and the truth are inescapable when it comes to this bill.

In 2001, the Opposition, while sitting in government, were advised - in 2001 - that CIBC and the banks would be out of the student loan system. They were advised three years ago. Did we hear about it in the House of Assembly, I ask my colleagues? Did we hear about it in the House of Assembly while we were in Opposition? No, we did not. Did we hear about it during the election? Did we hear about it? Was it debated? Was it discussed? Did the member opposite talk about students and being on a board of directors for a student loan corporation during the election? Did I hear her, Mr. Speaker? Did I hear any member opposite? No, we did not? Let me ask you this: Did we hear the member, or any member opposite, talk about a student loan corporation and the need for government to get back into the business to protect students? They had three years, six legislative sessions, to introduce this bill and they did not do it. They have the gall, the gumption and the nerve to stand up today and say that we are not doing anything for students. Mr. Speaker, it is not -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: I wonder if you could advise the hon. member that he is not in Opposition anymore. He is in government now.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, on October 21, I was well-advised of where I would be standing in the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Let me finish.

Not only that, thirty-three other of my colleagues were well-advised as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Three years, Mr. Speaker, three years, six legislative sittings, and the member opposite has the nerve to stand up and say that we, members who are part of a new government, who have been a new government since November, that we are not prepared to do anything for students.

As a matter of fact, if my memory is correct - and I think it is - that she, as a member, was also the Minister for Post-Secondary Education during those three years. That she can stand up bold-faced today and face people in this Province with the statements that she has made, that we, as a new government, are not doing anything. The facts and the truth say something else, Mr. Speaker. I will not belabour this point but I will say this, the facts and the truth speak to why that former government are now in Opposition, because they were not prepared to deal with situations when it came before them; this being one of them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, today she talked about: What have we done? I will take one initiative. If you want a comparison about a former track record and a current track record, just let me take this comparison.

In April of 1998 the former government entered into a framework agreement to develop the Lower Churchill. Part of that agreement - Mr. Speaker, this is important because we are talking about revenue that is going to go into the pockets of students, and that is where my point is going. The former government, in 1998, entered into a contract for 130 megawatts. They received $97 million for 130 megawatts. I was Leader of the Opposition at the time and I was extremely critical and upset by that agreement, for two good reasons. One, that there was a cap on revenue. In other words, no matter what 130 megawatts was worth, whether it was $40 per megawatt hour in the US, or $50 or $60 or $30 or $20, the government entered into a contract that we could only make so much and we could not go beyond that level.

Secondly, Mr. Speaker, on that point. They also failed to put in an escalation clause that would protect the people of the Province - because that is what we are here for - from inflation. That was a $97 million deal that they made.

Now, let's catapult ourselves to three weeks ago. For the past several months this government has been under negotiations or competing in negotiations with Hydro Quebec for the same block of power, the same 130 megawatts. Here is the difference. We negotiated a price that was $336.90 per megawatt hour, I believe, compared to $23.40 per megawatt hour, what they did. It reflects current prices in the US today. Secondly, there is no cap on how much we can make. Whatever the market can bear we are going to make more.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: That is the difference! We did not look inside ourselves and say we are only worth so much. We said to our negotiating team, go get what you can get but there will be no deal if there is going to be a cap on revenue, and there is no cap on revenue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the other important thing - if you want to talk about comparisons with this particular arrangement. Over the next five years that agreement which we negotiated recently, that we gave instructions and the direction to provide, will bring in an extra $133 million. That is what this government is up to.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: As the Premier said Thursday, "...it is not the new approach that is the problem." The reason we need one is because the old approach did not work, and that is an example of it right there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Now, what will we do with that $130 million? It will go into health care; it will go into students and post-secondary education; it will go into maintaining hospitals; it will go into maintaining roads and infrastructure; it will go into water and sewer projects; it will go into further negotiations on our resources; it will to into works, services and transportation and municipal operating grants in the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs; it will go into tourism promotion and marketing. But never, Mr. Speaker, will we, as a government - and one of the fundamental reasons that we believe the people of the Province put faith in us, is that when the leader of our party, who is now the Premier today, aided and supported by all of us, when he stood before the people of the Province and said: There will be no more giveaways. Guess what? He meant it and so did we.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: This bill, Mr. Speaker, is critically important to the people of the Province. It is crucially important to students in Newfoundland and Labrador. Between now and March 31 this bill will be passed because the students of our Province deserve no less.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me say first of all, Mr. Speaker, it is nice to see people in different roles in the House of Assembly, and yourself as Speaker in a new role. We just heard the Government House Leader getting used to the idea of being in government as opposed to in Opposition, and previously we heard the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans do a very incredible job of speaking for a full hour as an Opposition critic, giving a wide-ranging speech, being critical of - talking about the issues, talking about the need for good action from government on post-secondary education. We all have new roles to play. You can look to this corner of the House for consistency. We are here the same as we have been the last time. You can count on us to continue to raise the issues that we feel need to be raised in this House and be the kind of critics that we have been in terms of dealing with the issues, particularly those with respect to students are near and dear to their hearts.

This legislation that we have before us is important. There is no doubt about that. What is crucial about this legislation, Mr. Speaker, is that this legislation is the bill that is going to bring back into the control of the people the student loan program, instead of having it in the control of the banks. Mr. Speaker, the banks had the student loan portfolio for a long period of time. They went out of the business, and the reason they went out of the business is they were not making enough money. Not that they were not making any money, they were not making enough money to maintain their interest in dealing with the student loan portfolio. This has happened, as the Government House Leader said, over the last several years. This did not happen immediately, but it happened a few years ago when the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce said to government they were no longer going to handle the kind of defaults that we have been getting on student loans. We now want government, when a loan has been in default for a period of time - I think twelve months is the period that was accepted. They would tell the government we have loans in default worth x-hundreds of thousands of dollars or x-million dollars and the government would write out a cheque to the bank. The loan was in default. The student had not paid the loan, but the government had actually written a cheque to the bank for the amount of the money.

Mr. Speaker, as the previous Speaker said, this was not reported to the House of Assembly on a monthly basis or an annual basis but this was accruing as a liability to the government, and the details of which were not really known. When the PricewaterhouseCoopers report was released, there was a very interesting number because this was when government announced its intention to take this student loan portfolio, some $220 million - which the government is on the hook for by the way. The government was already on the hook for, in terms of a contingent liability. In other words, they were the guarantor of those loans. Instead of being on the hook for them as a guarantor on one side of a budget sheet - sort of a note to the financial statements - the government decided to bring this $220 million portfolio inside the budget on the books. That causes something to happen, Mr. Speaker, and this is why we have a real question here. Maybe the Minister of Education will answer it when he speaks in reply, and maybe we will have to ask him some more questions during the third reading when we get to the detail of this bill.

There is a reason why this legislation needs to be passed on March 30. I believe that between March 30 and April 1 the government wants to write a big cheque for some $220 million to the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce. Now, why do they want to do that on March 31, Mr. Speaker? There is a very special reason why. Because if they do not do it on March 31 their projected accrual deficit numbers and the cash deficit numbers that they talked about in January would not work.

When the interim report of the Pricewaterhouse accounting firm was released in November to the government there was a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth up on the eighth floor. There was a lot of concern because the interim report of the Pricewaterhouse group was that the deficit on the accrual basis - the first time ever in history we had a budget on the accrual basis - was, lo and behold, $665 million. Exactly what the budget had projected six months before. In fact, there was an increase in expenditures; maybe $40 million. The government spent $40 million more than the budget allowed them to do. It is not unusual, but in this case more accurate than usual because there was also an equivalent extra $40 million in revenue.

Lo and behold, perhaps for the first time in history - and I am sure it was coincidence more than good management, I have to say that - six months after a budget there was, in fact, the accrual deficit numbers, and the cash deficit numbers actually showed that they were in sync. The kind of numbers that the Minister of Finance was going around talking about for six months: Oh, the real deficit is $666 million. He was right, if you look at the accrual method of accounting.

So the government had a real problem. They wanted to do in Newfoundland and Labrador what Dalton McGinty did in Ontario. They wanted to be able to say that the previous government had put forth figures on the deficit that were so wildy out of whack that it justified them forgetting about all their election promises; that it justified them turning on the public service, which they seem to want to do. They wanted to be able to say that we are in very dire straits. They really wanted to be able to do that, but Pricewaterhouse - even though the people associated with this study were the very ones that produced or helped to produce the Ernie Eves budget that was discredited in Ontario. They said: no, it looks pretty good to us. Similar to what had been proposed in the budget. So they had to do something. They cast their net around and they found out that there was this issue related to student loans.

I have no difficulty, Mr. Speaker, with bringing the student loans into the government books and having them dealt with as a government liability, which it is. It does not change the fiscal position of the Province. I compared it, Mr. Speaker - suppose you, Mr. Speaker, were asked by one of your relatives to guarantee a mortgage because they could not qualify for a mortgage through a bank, and your relative was paying the mortgage and everything that was to do with it. You were just there as a guarantor. You were not called upon to pay out a cent, and you would not be called upon to pay anything unless your relative did not pay. So that is the kind of situation we are in with the banks on the student loan portfolio. It was not a direct debt but an obligation if the students did not pay. Supposing, Mr. Speaker, things changed and there was time for renewal of the mortgage but the bank refused to renew the mortgage for your relative. So you said: okay, I will go and take the mortgage out in my name. You pay me and I will pay the bank.

Now, Mr. Speaker, your financial position has not changed one bit; not one bit. The same obligation is there. It does not change your financial liabilities. Instead of it being out here as a guarantee or a contingent liability, it is right here on your debt statement. That is all we have done here, Mr. Speaker, but it is very important it seems to this government to have it done on March 31. Why, Mr. Speaker? So they can write a cheque to the Bank of Commerce on March 31 instead of on April 1, April 2 or April 3. Lo and behold, the cash deficit of the Province just went up by $220 million. Look how bad those Liberals were, Mr. Speaker. Look how bad they were. We need to have a wage freeze to make up for that, because this is not something that we anticipated.

Mr. Speaker, that is a fabrication for political purposes to justify actions that this government wants to take politically. So, Mr. Speaker, that needs to be said, and it needs to be said loud and clear. While we accept that government can and should, and ought to take over the student loan portfolio and do a better job in managing the student loan accounts - and I will get to that in a few minutes. I do not think I have as much time as the previous Opposition speaker, who had an hour, but there will be other opportunities during this debate because I understand it may go on for some time. We have a situation, Mr. Speaker, where this is being done now for political reasons, not really for the reasons that we talked about in terms of - it could be done, in other words, next week or the week after. It does not have to be done before March 31.

One of the other questions came up, Mr. Speaker, when we asked in a briefing from the Department of Finance: What effect does this have on the Budget? Well, there is also another effect. There is a student loan deficit based on the fact that there is a default rate. So, $55 million has also to be added to the long-term debt. What is that about? Well, that is an allowance for doubtful accounts it was called. I said: Where do you get $55 million? Well, that is the average student loan default. Twenty-five percent of $220 million. So, that gave rise to an interesting series of questions that we, in our office, asked, and asked of the ministers' officials. It took a little time to put it together but eventually we got it. We asked the question as to where were these student loan defaults coming from, because 25 per cent default rate on student loans seemed to me to be extremely high; extremely high to say that 25 per cent of the students in this Province who borrowed student loans were not paying them back, especially when the definition was being in default for more than twelve months. So, you had to have somebody who had not made a single payment for twelve months to be in default on a student loan.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we had our suspicions as to why the default rate was so high but we did not think it was as high as it was and we did not think that the post-secondary system that we had in the Province was so bad as to attract that kind of student default rate. Anyway, after a little while we got a report from the Ministry of Education showing that as of March 31, 2004, the projected amount for student loan defaults was $33 million. So we analyzed the figures and tried to understand what this represented. The additional question was asked, and I had to go back to the official who had given the briefing back in January, and said: Well, we have some figures from the Department of Education and they only show $33 million in projected student loan defaults. I said: Where is the other $22 million? Well, it came as a surprise to us, Mr. Speaker, so I am sure it will come as a surprise to you. The answer was: Oh, that $33 million is in addition to the $55 million that is projected by April 1. So that we have indeed, instead of $33 million in default of student loans, we have $88 million in default of student loans. Astounding! I can see the astonishment on the faces of the members opposite.

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. HARRIS: Right behind you, I say to the Government House Leader.

The astonishment on the face of the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment. Astonishment! I was astonished, too. I am not surprised she was astonished. Eighty-eight million dollars in student loan defaults in this Province. Why, Mr. Speaker? Where does it come from? This is the question that I had to ask myself, and I was trying to get the answer from government officials. Where does this all come from?

Mr. Speaker, it turns out that 60 per cent of the student loans that were in default arose from the so-called private career colleges. So 60 per cent of the number of loans in default were from the private career colleges, representing about 52¼ per cent of the whole amount of money, about $17 million of the $33 million. If you add that, I guess, to an equivalent percentage of the $55 million that we are talking about, as of the first of April, we would have about $45 million of the $88 million student loan default which comes from the so-called private career colleges.

If we start looking at the rate of default, because it sounds okay in one sense, half of it comes from the private colleges and half from the public, but if you look at the numbers, Mr. Speaker - for example, there are 17,000 students at Memorial University but there are only 4,000 students in the private college system, yet the number of student loan defaults for the private system is considerably higher. Mr. Speaker, the rate of default for the public system versus the private also revels very interesting numbers, that the rate of default for the private college system is over 40 per cent, 41 per cent. So 41 per cent of the people who get student loans in private career colleges actually default on their loans. For Memorial University it is 14 per cent. For the College of the North Atlantic I think it is 16 per cent.

We can see, Mr. Speaker, that it is a really serious problem we have here, a problem that the government really didn't look at, because for a long period of time, at least from 1995, it was in the hands of the banks, the banks were dealing with the problems. Government was not being called upon to pay the defaults and the banks were taking the hit. The government was able to say, well, you know, it is out of our hands, we don't really have anything to worry about, except when the Career Academy went under, for example, went bankrupt, after having spent millions and millions of dollars advertising and bringing students in. Those of us who were watching that debate back in those days were wondering whether the Career Academy was running a dating service or an educational institution, if you looked at the ads. Remember the ad, Success Comes In Pairs At The Career Academy, hand in hand walking down the street. They were using the tuition money that they were getting from students to advertise to bring more students in to run -

AN HON. MEMBER: Was that Keyin or the Career Academy?

MR. HARRIS: That was the Career Academy. No, it wasn't Keyin.

That was the situation we were in in the mid-90s, Mr. Speaker. In fact, the Career Academy itself went under in late 1998.

Mr. Speaker, what we have seen is that the previous government, for the ten-year period from 1993, really has allowed the proliferation of private colleges. They were filling a gap left by the depletion and the deterioration and downgrading of the public system in Newfoundland and Labrador.

From 1993 to 2003, the amount of money that CONA received from government went down from $87 million a year to $62 million a year, a $25 million a year drop. All of us know, Mr. Speaker, from our constituents and our relatives and anyone else that we talk to, that people could not get into the College of the North Atlantic. There were waiting lists for courses, they were unable to get it, and the career colleges were stepping up to the breach offering courses. The rate of tuition was twice, three times, four times in some cases, of the College of the North Atlantic and yet they were able to get students because they could not get into CONA because government had backed off on support for the public college system.

Who paid for this, Mr. Speaker? The people who paid for this is two-fold. The students themselves, who were paying the full cost of education received from these career colleges plus a profit for the people running it, and they were going to the Student Loans Program to get it and government was making it available to them.

The quality of education received, Mr. Speaker - and we can debate about that. I am not saying that every single course offered in every single private college is a bad course. That is not the case, obviously not. In fact there are some very good courses offered in some of the private colleges. The point is this, Mr. Speaker, that the students should not have to pay the full cost of a private education and a profit for the owners when we have a public system that is being underfunded and needs help from government. That is the answer, Mr. Speaker. The answer is, that students ought not to be victims.

We have a whole lot of victims around, Mr. Speaker. In fact, we have 2,800 people identified here as having been in default of loans in the last three years. These are people who cannot go bankrupt because the law has been changed. They cannot clear the decks and move on. They cannot get a job, we are told. In many cases they cannot get a job because the instant they get a job the credit agencies are after them, the collection agencies are after them. Their wages are garnisheed and they are essentially out of the market. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the minister's own departmental officials told a number of people - the Member for St. John's Centre was there - that one of the most significant barriers -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi that his time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker? I am sure the minister would be interested in this point. By leave for a few minutes?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, one of the minister's very excellent programs is called the Youth Team Initiative. The Youth Team Initiative is an attempt to get young people between the ages of nineteen and thirty, who are on social assistance, to get them into the workforce, not through workfare, Mr. Speaker, but a very positive program of assistance to help people overcome the barriers that they might have in getting into the workforce. Well, lo and behold, Mr. Speaker, when they started this program and they worked on what appeared to be in the first instance the most employable of people who were receiving social assistance - young people, the ones who had an education, the ones who finished high school, they were the most promising looking of the individuals - they found out, when they got into the program, that one of the most significant barriers to employment for this group of people was the fact that they had a student loan from a private college that was in default, that they could not pay, and that was preventing them from getting into the workforce because of all the reasons that I said.

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to the point that student loan defaults, which are permitted by this government - in fact, encouraged in a way by government by underfunding the public system and forcing young people to make choices to go into the private system, they come out the other end in many, many cases, in far too many cases, with a debt that they cannot repay and an inability to get into the workforce because they cannot get a job that is going to allow them to pay their debt and have any money for themselves because it will be all taken by the credit agencies.

This is a crisis, Mr. Speaker, and I am not manufacturing this crisis. I have the wrath of the private college owners on me. They think that I am out to get them. Mr. Speaker, what I am out to do is to say to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, the young people of Newfoundland and Labrador, that you deserve a quality public post-secondary education supported by your government. If we can do that, Mr. Speaker, there will be no need for private colleges.

Even the unions are into it, Mr. Speaker, not on a private profit-making basis but they are there to provide a need because the public college system has had the trades training taken away from it. What we would want to see the government do is integrate those union training courses into the College of the North Atlantic, as has been done with the carpenters' union, I think. The College of the North Atlantic and the carpenters' union are working together to deliver a program on a not-for-profit basis to people who need carpentry training.

When we see the lack of skills that are always talked about in our society, the lack of skilled workmen and workers to do the jobs that need to be done, we need to have the ability to provide that training through the public college system. That is one of the reasons why I want to speak on this bill. That is one of the reasons why I want to see government take over this loan portfolio and do a proper job of ensuring that money that we are spending - one way or the other we are spending it. Forty-five million of this $88 million is backdoor funding for a private college system that is not doing the job and not delivering the goods. That kind of money, Mr. Speaker, should be going to public system to provide our young people with opportunities to learn, develop and participate in society and have a good opportunity for themselves and their families just like all of us want to have for ourselves and for our children.

There are lots of things to talk about in this bill, Mr. Speaker, but we need to concentrate on the positive aspects of it and see if we can stop doing through the back door what I do not think the people of Newfoundland would agree to do through the front door, which is fund private colleges in education. We do not want to do it in health care. We should not be doing it in post-secondary education as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, today I rise because I would like to speak on this very important issue affecting our post-secondary students. This issue and this bill will affect our post-secondary students who are current loan holders, and will certainly affect our children as they move into the post-secondary education system and may become student loan holders.

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians certainly understand that post-secondary education is very important. It makes good social and economic sense for a person to pursue post-secondary education. Also, a person with post-secondary education has the ability to lend to their own individual prosperity and to contribute to their communities and to their families. Students for years have been asking for the administration of student loans to be streamlined and to be more simplified. This government, through this bill, is responding to the request of students.

I am delighted to stand here today in full support of this bill. I think there are some significant improvements for the administration of the Student Loans Program and I think it will be user-friendly for the students.

The legislation provides the legislative framework for the government, through the Student Loans Program of Newfoundland and Labrador, to become the direct lender of the Student Loans Program. In addition to that, it also provides for the daily loan servicing to be completed by the federal government and, at the same time, federal loans are being serviced. What this means for students is that there will be one loan payment, there will be one interest relief application, and there will be one revision of terms application. Prior to this, and under the present system, it requires two applications. This bill will make the process more streamlined. It will reduce confusion and duplication, and it will be a more efficient process for the students.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Students, when requiring student loans, will deal with only one service provider instead of two, and the most interesting point is that this bill serves the needs of the students for today and the students of the future.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to speak to the student financial bill, Bill 1, Mr. Speaker. I think it is important that we call spade a spade here and recognize what it is we have in front of us today, and that is an attempt to take $220 million and put it in the Budget for this government to make it seem as if it was one that we incurred when, in fact, we did not. The government opposite had an option not to do this until sometime out, but they chose instead not to take that option but instead to put the $220 million on the Budget for this year, on the Budget for 2003-2004, because it would appear then that the deficit was, in fact, larger than it is.

Mr. Speaker, we know exactly what is happening here. Nobody is quarreling with the bill. No one is quarreling about the need for this bill. We all recognize that we need it, that our students need it. In fact, I, too, served as Minister of Education for a period of time, and we have been having discussions about the need to do this ever since CIBC let us know that they were getting out of the lending business. So, this is nothing new. This is something that the Liberal government undertook to do because we did not have a choice, and neither, of course, do you have a choice, the government opposite. You did have a choice about when to introduce it, and it did not have to be done by March 30. It could have been done April 1, but, of course, that would have meant you would have had a different set of books. You would have had a different set of books to present, and you would not have been able then to get out there and talk about the crisis situation.

What you have been able to do, what you have been trying to do, and what you have been trying to convince the people of the Province, is that in fact your deficit is larger than what it really is, and what you were able to do as a result of doing that, or tried to do, is to impose a wage freeze on the most vulnerable in our society, on people who need to have a wage increase. What you have been able to do is put a halt to those health care facilities that are so badly needed in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

In my district in particular, what you have been able to do is use an inflated number to suggest that you cannot go forward with a much-needed health care facility in Grand Bank, a facility that would replace an outdated cottage hospital, the only cottage hospital left in Newfoundland and Labrador, a facility to replace a senior citizens' home. All the analysis has been done. We talked to all of the stakeholders, including the officials in the Department of Health, including the board trustees. They all agree that this needed to go forward, but you put a halt to it, and you are using the deficit numbers to do that. For the life of me, I cannot understand how the same numbers do not apply when it comes to the Premier's district, when the Premier can come out and commit to a long-term health care facility in his district, but the one in Grand Bank is put on hold.

You have used the $220 million to inflate the deficit number, and that is sad, Mr. Speaker. That is sad, because the people of the Province look to their government to be up front and honest with them. We know that there should be fairness when you are approaching every MHA, when you are looking at what the needs are for the people they represent. You should not play politics with who gets what, when and where. That is exactly what is happening in the District of Grand Bank and in Grand Falls. The same thing is happening in Burgeo & LaPoile. The same thing is happening in other areas of this Province. You are using the $220 million to inflate the Budget numbers, and that is indeed a shame.

No one can argue with the spirit of this legislation. We need this; our students need this. We have heard time and time again about the confusion that our students encounter in dealing with two levels of government in trying to deal with the provincial loans program and the federal loans program. It is not fair for the students to have to deal with that kind of mass confusion when they are also trying to get an education. The last thing they need to worry about is whether or not they have their application in for the provincial loans program, or whether or not the application is in for the federal loans program.

I am delighted, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Education and his counterpart, although his counterpart does not happen to be a Minister of Education - that is another flaw of the system. There should be a federal Minister of Education. We have decisions being made in Ottawa about education by those who do not have direct responsibility for it. I would like nothing better than to see a federal Minister of Education, the same as we have a federal Minister of Health.

Mr. Speaker, I am so glad to see that they have come together and they have agreed to put a corporation in place, but the question that remains about the corporation is, how come we have a corporation being proposed with three deputy ministers comprising that corporation?

Mr. Speaker, we need to take into account the needs of our students. If we are going to have three deputy ministers on a corporation, certainly heavens we must also have a student represented on that corporation. We should have someone from the Department of Education on that corporation, other than the deputy minister. I think it is really important that we expand the composition of the corporation. Our students need our support. They need access to affordable post-secondary education.

We have talked about education, and many of you have heard me say - and others too - that we will never have a sound economy without a sound education system. We really need to put as much focus and emphasis on education in Newfoundland and Labrador as we do on anything else. In fact, the education portfolio is probably the most important portfolio in government, because you have to deliver and have responsibility for education from the very young to the very old. You have an opportunity to make decisions to influence the education of our very young, our pre-school children, our children from K to12, our students who are in post-secondary education and, of course, those who need us to work with them on literacy initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take a second just to speak to this whole issue about literacy and how disappointed I was when the government saw fit to get rid of the Executive Director of Literacy and, in particular, the individual who held that post, because there was no one more qualified to deliver on literacy initiatives than that particular lady. I feel, Mr. Speaker, the whole literacy community, the whole Province, was done a disservice when she was let go, and for what reason I do not know, but I can tell you that there are those in the literacy community who recognize that they have lost a friend, a very valued worker. and someone who was respected across this country for her interest and knowledge of literacy issues, and someone who had the ear of the federal government. I do not know how many of you know it, but $1 million came into this Province for literacy initiatives from the federal government and it was because of an individual, like the lady who served in that position, who was able to access that kind of money, who knew what programs to access and who knew where to go, where to look for it.

When you look at education you have to look at it from the very young to the very old, but in focusing on this particular bill we need to focus on our post-secondary students. They are the ones who really need our support. They are the ones who are preparing to be the leaders of tomorrow. They are the ones who will be sitting where we are sitting and making decisions about Newfoundland and Labrador's future. They do not need to be bothered with student loan applications, deadlines here, deadlines there from two different entities. So, yes, this is a good bill. It is a bill, it is something that we were involved in. As my colleague said earlier, she did a lot of the groundwork that had to be done in bringing this bill forward. I applaud the minister for bringing it through today and making sure that it is a comprehensive bill.

It does have some flaws, and some flaws that my colleague spoke to and we will be looking to see amendments made to try and deal with those issues. That is what this is about. This is an opportunity to speak to a bill and hopefully to be able to influence and make some changes in the bill for the better.

Our students need to know that we are there for them, that the government is there for them. I take great pride in serving with a government, Mr. Speaker, who not only froze tuition in Newfoundland and Labrador but who, in fact, decreased tuition rates. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, when he was the Premier, was held up by the Canadian Federation of Students as someone that the other Premiers in the country should emulate and I applauded him then and I applaud him now because he put post-secondary education first and foremost in this Province. He gave it the attention it needed not only in Newfoundland and Labrador but throughout the country and I applaud him for doing that. The students recognize that he did that and they know that we are going to be supportive of this bill. They know too that there are some amendments that we want to put forward because we need to see the bill improved.

Again, Mr. Speaker, our students, our post-secondary students, are looking to us to make sure that they have access to affordable education. When I talk about the opportunities for students to access affordable education, I think there is not a person in this House who would not like to see free post-secondary education for the young people in Newfoundland and Labrador. I think we all recognize the day when Grade 12 was enough to get you a job, to get you out into the workforce, it was all that you needed. Today, if you look at post-secondary education, that is what is equivalent today to a Grade 12 education and one degree may not be enough. One degree may not be enough.

If you look at the cost of post-secondary education and look at someone having to go for eight years to prepare themselves to play a role in our Province's future, it is terrible when you think that they come out with such exorbitant fees, that they come out with a loan that is sometimes equivalent to a mortgage. How can they move ahead with their lives if they are saddled with a student loan, they are saddled with a car payment, and in some cases if they are married with a mortgage and all the other bills that go with it? We really need to focus on doing everything that we can to make education more accessible and affordable.

I know that the federal government has, from time to time, introduced different programs, like the Millennium Scholarship, for example, a great scholarship, but available to a handful of people in the Province.

In speaking with the students at the university about a month ago, they said: You know, we certainly applaud the federal government for putting this money into education. Just imagine with those millions of dollars how many grants could be provided to students who want to do post-secondary education. Imagine if that money was available to them in the form of a grant, what that would mean in terms of the amount of a student loan they would have at the end of their four or eight-years terms in university.

Mr. Speaker, we really need to do everything we can, and I am pleased to see this bill. This is a bill that will indeed make things easier for our post-secondary students. This is a bill that brings together federal and provincial loan programs, one entity, one-stop shopping as it were, which is really important, so that our students don't have to be constantly worrying about whether or not they have met the deadline for one program and met the deadline for another. At the end of the day they know exactly to whom they have to apply, they know what the criteria is and they know how much is available to them.

I am hoping that some of the initiatives that we put in place when we were a government will continue under today's government, initiatives that will enable students, if they complete their program on time, to have their provincial loan portion written off. I would love to see the federal government do the same thing. We would love to see the federal government do the same thing as we have done in terms of forgiving students a provincial loan if, in fact, they complete their program on time. A wonderful initiative that the government of the day got tremendous kudos for, and it is something I am hoping will continue under the existing government.

There are a whole host of initiatives, Mr. Speaker, that the previous government did for our students. We know that the post-secondary students of today, whether or not they are in the College of the North Atlantic, the Marine Institute or Memorial University, know and appreciate what we did. They recognize, as well, that we are in difficult financial circumstances, but, Mr. Speaker, they know too that those circumstances are not near as dire as they are being led to believe by the government opposite. They know that $220 million did not have to be a part of this deficit. They know that there is no difference in passing this bill on March 30 versus April 1 if, in fact, the government of the day had taken up the option that was given to them and instead agreed to do it at a later date. It would have had no impact on our students, would not have impacted them at all in terms of access to funding. It would not have done anything at all to prevent our students from getting a student loan. Mr. Speaker, we really need to stay focused on the needs of our students. We really need to be funding our post-secondary institutions in the manner in which they will be able to provide the types of programming that our students need.

I worry, Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, while we have a world-renowned institution like Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the College of the North Atlantic, and the Marine Institute, that with the entire focus being on fiscal restraint, sustainability, that those institutions will not be treated fairly when the Budget is brought down. These institutions need to be able to deliver programs, quality programs, a variety of programs for our young people. Those young people who again, I say, will become the leaders, who will be sitting where we are sitting today, who will be deciding our future, it is those young people who need access to affordable education but, at the same time, a quality education, and our institutions cannot deliver that quality education if the government of the day does not give them the funding that they require to provide the types of programs that our young people need to be able to access, and the types of programs that provide the kinds of education that our students need. At the same time, our institutions need the type of funding required to maintain the infrastructure that they have, because there is nothing worse - and this goes for elementary school, high school and post-secondary - than trying to get an education in an environment that is neither safe nor clean, and that would be my concern for post-secondary institutions as well as it would be my concern for primary, elementary and high school and junior high schools.

We need to ensure that the funding is there for education. Education is so important to all of us. It is important to our students, it is important to business, it is important to parents, it is important to grandparents, and it is important to anyone who has the interest of a young person at heart. It is also important to the Province as a whole because it is our students who we will be looking to, to decide the future of our Province.

We really need to ensure that our post-secondary institutions are well funded. We need to ensure that they have the funding to deliver the quality programs that our young people need and deserve, and we need to ensure that accessability is affordable.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Grand Bank that her time has expired.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I want to propose an amendment, and I trust that it is in order.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS FOOTE: Shall I leave it?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS FOOTE: Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will not do that at this time.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I want to guarantee the Member for Grand Bank, I want to guarantee the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, that she need not worry about Memorial University or the College of the North Atlantic. The government on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, is going to take care of the education system in this Province. Our commitment - all you need to do is look at the Speech from the Throne.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I just want to read one thing. Just in case the hon. member did not hear it the other day, I want to read a couple of sentences. It says, "My Government will commission a White Paper on Post-secondary Education to examine post-secondary concerns, affordability and accessibility and to identify initiatives that will enhance the employment prospects of graduates. The White Paper will also examine whether our university and public college are meeting their potential to attract investment and generate economic development opportunities in Newfoundland and Labrador. I want to repeat, Mr. Speaker, this is our commitment to Memorial University and to the College of the North Atlantic.

AN HON. MEMBER: In short, trust us.

MR. WISEMAN: Exactly, Mr. Speaker. I say to my colleague, that is exactly what the people of Newfoundland and Labrador did in October. They entrusted this Province to the hands of this government on this side.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: The people of Newfoundland and Labrador had their fill of the people opposite, and we have heard three or four times today about how we are implementing government or that party's previous platform.

Mr. Speaker, if in fact that is true I want to repeat something that the Leader of the Opposition once said when he was in as Premier. He said: we, as a party, are open. We will implement any and all good ideas that are presented to us. We, in turn, are going to do the exact same thing. Now whether they are in our Blue Book or in their Red Book, if they are good we are going to implement them.

The thing that is different though, Mr. Speaker, is the people of Newfoundland and Labrador said: regardless if their ideas are good, regardless if they are absolutely right, regardless if they have great ideas, better than ours, we do not trust them to do it anyway.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: After they had a closer look they said: We do not trust them. We have to get rid of them. On October 21, they said: We want the people on this side, the people of the Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Labrador, to implement the good ideas, whether they are Liberal or PC. That is where we are, Mr. Speaker. This today, our first bill, is one of those good ideas. One of those good ideas because it reflects our commitment to the young people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

One of the other things that I have been - and I am not an accountant, Mr. Speaker, but I am somewhat puzzled by the preoccupation in two days. Whether it is March 31 or April 1, $220 million is $220 million. So whether you owe it on one day or owe it on the next day, whether you bring the bill in one day or the next day, I am not certain that it makes any difference; unless there is an accountant that can tell me something different. I am not sure why hon. members are so preoccupied with being critical of why we are introducing this bill, as the first bill in the House, intend to bring it in by the end of March, rather than wait until April 1.

We heard the Member for Grand Bank suggest that the difference between March 31 and April 1 was the only cause for the Grand Bank long-term care facility being put on hold. We heard the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans say it was the reason why we cannot move forward from capital initiatives in Central Newfoundland. I am puzzled why there is a preoccupation with this one day. If you owe $220 million to the Bank of Commerce, writing the cheque one day or the next makes no difference to the financial position of this Province. I think that preoccupation and the comments about waiting one day or the other is a reflection of how that past Administration juggled the books to make things look better than they did. If they do it on March 31 they may not make us look so good, so we will juggle it and wait a day to make us look a little better. We are not interested in juggling books!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: We said we were going to try to do a good job with fiscal management. We were not going to be magicians. We were not going to solve all the problems, and we definitely were not going to be juggling the books and juggling the figures.

In fact, I think it started back in about 1995 or 1996 when they started juggling the books, moving money forward from one year to the next. We have had a history of that in this Province and we are not about to do that. The $220 million cheque that is going to be written to the Bank of Commerce is an amount that is owed today, an amount that is owed March 31, an amount that would have been owed April 1 had we not done it. End of discussion. That is all I think we need to talk about, these dates. I think we need to focus on the thrust of this legislation, and really the thrust of this legislation is to have a good, clean administration of our Student Loan Program.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: A program that focuses on quality program and quality service, make it accessible to the students who need it. In the future students do not have to be making a couple of applications. They do not have to be having two different arrangements with two different institutions on the repayment. It is a streamline system that reflects our commitment to making funding accessible, making education affordable, and for those who need to borrow the money, making it accessible and streamline the process, and in so doing, making it a much more efficient system for the administration.

Instead of having the federal government out there with an administration system for collection and the administration of the program and the Province sitting over here with another parallel system, we are now able to streamline the system for the administration, streamline the system for access by the students. All around everyone becomes a winner.

I think, as we have heard several speakers make the comment already, the key thing here is making it accessible to students. One of the things we cannot lose sight of here, I think, is students and how they access the program. For those of us who have been in this House for awhile, and the last four years since I have been here, it has been an annual thing. Student loan issues and student loan inquires to my office probably is about the third highest number of inquires I get. Students have been challenged in the past in having to work with a system that did not provide them easy access, in working with a system that created complications and problems on the repayment, having to deal with a federal agency and a provincial agency who could not come together sometimes and talk about what was a reasonable amount to forgive. Students who were finding themselves challenged with repayment arrangements had to deal with two separate different groups of people to try to come up with a reasonable repayment arrangement.

Some of our students, unfortunately, find themselves in a situation, because of excessive tuition fees over the last ten years, have found themselves, upon graduation, owing excessive amounts of money. If you look at the history of tuition fees in this Province, we have experienced some of the highest tuition fees in our history from the early 1990s up until about four or five years ago. The students who have graduated from that particular period had the highest student debt of any other group of graduates from this Province in history.

Many of those people found themselves in the situation where they either could not find gainful employment or they found themselves underemployed. Either way, they found it very challenging to be able to come up with a reasonable repayment arrangement for their student loans, Madam Speaker. One of the challenges that are always found is: How do I deal with a federal agency and a provincial agency and get two of them to wrap their heads around what it is that I can reasonably afford to pay, and come up with some kind of reasonable relief if that was one of the solutions.

Today, though, today what we see here, Madam Speaker, is an opportunity for students to now deal with one single person, the one single agency who will be able to facilitate their application process, to facilitate their repayment arrangement. If they run into some challenges, and frequently they will, when they run into those challenges they are dealing with one agency only, Madam Speaker, and not have to worry about both federal and provincial.

I want to commend, inasmuch as we heard the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans talk about the tremendous amount of legwork that she did on this particular piece of legislation, and all the groundwork had been done by her and her office prior to the election, although it took her an hour to talk about the merits of the bill and all the wonderful things that we should be doing with it, at the same time, regardless of who did the legwork and regardless of whether it was the party opposite or the government party today, regardless of who did the legwork here, the thing we should realize is this is a good piece of legislation that gives us an appropriate response to a situation the Province was faced with, when the Bank of Commerce decided to get out of the loan business. I think what we might have seen in the very beginning was a problem, there was a challenge, the bank was getting out of the business. What it has turned out to be, and I commend the minister for bringing this bill forward and having the vision to be able to introduce in the House today, what we are seeing here now is taking that challenge and turning it into what will be, I think, a good news story for the students of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I think that is what we need to be focusing on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: We can stand in this House for the next couple of hours and talk about the merits of March 31 and April 1, or we could talk about who did all the legwork, whether it was the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans. We can talk about all that. When we do that, though, we lose sight of the real people this is benefitting, the students of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: As we heard the minister say, there are some thirty-odd thousand students out there who are affected by this bill today and who are affected by his decision to bring this legislation forward, and I think as we debate this and as we talk about it, whether we have amendments proposed and whether we debate amendments in the third reading, when we do all of that, let's not lose sight of the real reason for this bill, and that is the students of this Province. When we stay focused on the students, all this rhetoric about timelines, and all this rhetoric about the money and who did all the work and who should get the credit, we should lose all of that. That is all irrelevant. We are here to do the people's business, and today we are talking about the business of the students of Newfoundland and Labrador -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: - the 30,000 who have loans today, and the tens of thousands who will have loans in the future. That is what we are here to debate today and that is what this bill does.

I really want to commend the minister for bringing this bill forward. I think, in fact, it is symbolic, as the Government House Leader indicated earlier. This is symbolic, I believe, that a new government, its very first bill, deals with education, deals with our youth, deals with the future, and deals with creating a positive environment for them to function. I think that is symbolic of the commitment that this government has made to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I think it is this kind of initiative and this kind of thinking that this government has which is why the people of Newfoundland and Labrador gave us such a resounding majority in the fall, and that is why we are the government today and that is why we are providing a leadership and are going to take this Province into the future.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak to this very important bill. Once again, I commend the minister for introducing it.

MR. BARRETT: Call an election.

MR. WISEMAN: I say to the Member for Bellevue, anybody who hung onto his seat by fifty votes shouldn't be calling for an election today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: In fact, if he were five pounds heavier his fingers would have just slipped, he was hanging on that thin.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: This is the same member, by the way, who thought I was not going to be able to win my nomination, and no one challenged me. He is the same member who said that the hon. John Efford and Ms Small were going to make sure that I was not going to return to this House, and here I am.

AN HON. MEMBER: And you are here to stay too, here to stay.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I am here with over a 4,000 vote majority more than he is. So I would be very careful, I say to the Member for Bellevue, when you start asking for an election. Be careful what you ask for, because you may not be here after the election is over.

Thank you again, Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate and Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: I rise today to speak to Bill 1, An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act, the very first bill of the new government and the members opposite, that they take great pride in today and that they are holding up as the best bill that they are probably going to have in the House of Assembly during this session.

Madam Speaker, as an educator myself and having been a previous Minister of Education, I certainly am interested in this bill, as I am with everything that affects the students of this Province and the youth of this Province. While we didn't do, or I didn't do, everything I wanted to do for the students of this Province, Madam Speaker, I can stand here today and say to the people of this Province and the members opposite, I was proud of what our government was able to achieve in the last three or four years we were here. I am proud of the fact that we, in the last four years, contributed $200 million for new school construction in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: We have new schools on New World Island. We have a new school in Roddickton. I had the opportunity to open the one in Roddickton and I also had the opportunity to open the one in Plum Point. I also had the opportunity to visit the new school in Goose Bay. I might add, Madam Speaker, that we did not discriminate on the basis of how people voted because the last three schools I just mentioned were in Tory seats, and they are today. But, we also made a commitment to the school in Goose Bay that we were going to add a $3 million auditorium to that building. I understand that as well is on hold. I would not mind if the hon. Member for Goose Bay would get up, after I finish speaking, and tell us where that is going to be in the budget this year, and if his government is going to live up to the commitment that he yelled and screamed and shouted at us to honour when we were in government, if that is going to happen in this.

Besides the $200 million, Madam Speaker, in new school construction, we did a lot of other things, and I will mention a few. In the last four years we put $5 million into library books around the Province so that kids in rural areas of the Province would have the opportunity to visit a library and see a new book once in awhile. What did the new government do in the first week or the first month that they were in government, or the first few months that they were in government? They fired the best spokesman for literacy that we have had in this Province in a long, long time. They fired the director for literacy over in the Department of Education. I say shame on you! If that is the direction you are taking when it comes to education in the Province, God help us.

Besides that, just last year we put $5 million into a broadband initiative so that our children in rural areas of this Province could be hooked up to high speed Internet; so that they could access the Internet, access topics that they may need to research for term papers and other things in their school.

Madam Speaker, we also had three consecutive years where we offered the students at Memorial University a tuition freeze. Three years in a row. Ten, ten and five, for a total, when you accumulate it, of 26 per cent.

I say to you, I have a son who started university in September. I can say that today he is paying 26 per cent less for tuition than had he registered for Memorial University three years ago. Not bad, but we do not hear these people talk much about that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: In fact, in three consecutive years when we stood in this House of Assembly under the able leadership of this leader over here and announced that we had tuition freezes, the members opposite grumbled and complained. What did they grumble and complain about? We were not doing enough. We were not eliminating tuition. We heard it. We heard it from the Premier today about his discussions from Ireland, and he talked about the Irish experience. Well, I heard that discussion from the members opposite as late as last year when they stood in the House and talked about free tuition in Ireland. Maybe we can expect free tuition when you bring down your budget in the next month or so.

In three consecutive years we lowered the tuition at Memorial University and we froze tuition at the College of the North Atlantic, and what did we hear opposite? Nothing only complaints that it was not enough. Now they have moved across the floor. They have moved from over here to over there, twenty feet, and what has changed? The Minister of Education came out a few weeks ago and said: We are going to freeze tuition. When they sat over here four short months ago a freeze was not sufficient. A cut was not sufficient. They wanted to talk about the elimination of tuition, and the best they can offer is a freeze. The best they can offer is a freeze. So, what happened from the time that they sat here until the time they moved over there? I ask you the question: What happened to them?

The Minister of Education; when he introduced this brand new, first bill of the government, he talked about making post-secondary institutions more accessible. What have they done to make them more accessible? They have frozen tuition. Now, is that making something more accessible? More accessible than when? Than last year when we reduced tuition? How is that making it more accessible, the fact that you are just freezing tuition? Why don't you stand up and announce that you are going to eliminate it? Why don't you stand up and say that you are going to reduce it by a further 25 per cent in the next three years? No, because your Finance Minister will not let you do it.

Now, let's talk about the bill that is on the floor today; talk about how you are very proud about it, and it is such a good news story. Well, let me ask you a few questions, for those of you opposite who stood and talked about what a great bill this was. Tell me what is good about it? Answer this question: Is it going to lower the amount that students are going to have to borrow this year? What is the answer to that question? Is it going to lower the amount that my son, your sons, or any son or daughter in this Province is going to have to pay for education this year? The answer to that is simple: No, it is not going to lower tuition. Is it going to decrease the debt load of students in this Province as a result of this great bill? As the Member for Clarenville just said: Yes, it is the first bill and it is about our youth. Is this going to reduce the debt load of our students in the Province? I say, Madam Speaker, not by one penny will it reduce the debt load that our students are going to have. Will it reduce the amount that a student is asked every year when he fills out his loan application under the section that talks about student contribution, is it going to lower the amount that a student is expected to save to pay for his education? I say to you, not by one cent will it lower student contribution.

What about the parental contribution? We are all parents and we are all asked to contribute to our children's education. There are many people in my district who cannot afford that parental contribution because they have one, two or three students going to a post-secondary institution and they are still asked for parental contribution. Does it say anywhere in this bill that we are going to lower the parental contribution that is required of our parents around the Province? I say again: No, it will not. All this great fabulous bill is going to do today is, it is going to change the institution that used to provide the student loans, CIBC, to the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. All we are doing in this bill is changing the lender. We know what they say about money lenders in the Bible, don't we?

CIBC said what they were going to do, is they were hauling out of student loans and we have been asked to take them over. So the first bill, the one that you are beating your chests and talking about today, all it is going to do is change the lender. Will students have to borrow as much money this term as they did last term? The answer is simple. Yes, they will have to. In fact, they will have to borrow more because all you have done is frozen tuition. There are still other bills at the university and at the College of the North Atlantic, and even the private schools around the Province, that have increased fees for other items. Have these been reduced in this bill? Not a chance. Will the students have to repay their loans? Good question. Now that the banks have pulled out, this great government that we have today, now all of a sudden they are head of the student loans. Are they going to be asked to pay back their student loans? Yes, Madam Speaker, every single cent. Every single cent that they borrow they will be asked to pay back, and I guarantee you they will be hounded until they pay every last cent. As the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi said, no longer can a student go out and declare personal bankruptcy to avoid a student loan, no longer, because that bill is already there that they cannot do it.

Madam Speaker, I, not like some of my colleagues over here and certainly unlike the crowd opposite, am not excited about this bill today. I do not see too much to be excited about. We are changing a lender. It is like I would jump up and down today and say that I am really excited because now my mortgage is not with the Bank of Nova Scotia on Elizabeth Avenue, it is with CIBC on Elizabeth Avenue. Come on, boys, get a grip! What are you talking about? What is there to be excited about? Bill 1? You are going to be really excited.

I would be far more excited today if you came out here and said that you were going to reduce the amount of student loans, reduce the amount of tuition we are paying at the University, reduce the amount that kids are asked to borrow in this Province. I would be far more excited. But to say that I am getting excited about changing the lender of a student loan is a bit too much for me.

So why do we need to come to this House today? The first bill - why did we have notice on the first day that the House was open last week, right after the Throne Speech, that this bill had to come today and that the House would not be closed until this bill was pushed through?

Now, the member from Clarenville says: Oh no, it does not matter if it is passed on March 31 or if it passed on April 1. Well then I ask the hon. member: Why are we going to keep the House open, as the House Leader has said, right through next Sunday? If there is no urgency attached to it by those opposite, why are we sitting tonight to discuss this bill? You had the opportunity to open the House in November. Your Premier told the general public of this Province, when he was elected back in October, that the House would be open before Christmas. Then that was delayed. He set another date earlier in the year and that was delayed. He set another date when the House was supposed to be open and then he put out another little press release saying: We are not opening it now. The budget is supposed to be down next week and that is not happening. What is the urgency, I ask the member from Clarenville? If there is no difference, why are discussing it? Why are we discussing it?

Let me tell you why we are discussing this bill and why the members opposite are so interested in ramming that through the Legislature before March 31. In fact, I think it is March 30 that is written on the bill, when they want it. There is one reason, Madam Speaker. Prior to the election, and ever since the election, the Minister of Finance and the Premier have been out there talking about what terrible shape the finances of the Province are in. Terrible shape! Then they had the gall, the unmitigated gall, to stand up in front of a camera and say, we did not think, we did not know, it was going to be as bad as it actually was, when I sat opposite the Minister of Finance in this House for eight years and I do not know if he went a day without jumping to his feet and saying: The debt is far larger, far larger, than you are saying. You are lying, you are lying. It is far larger. You are lying, you are lying. That is what he kept saying.

I see the Minister of Finance jumping up and taking off. I do not blame him. Far larger! Now all of a sudden, when he gets his hands on the books - the projected deficit for this year, when we brought down our budget last April, was $286 million, and when he took over as Minister of Finance back in October, guess what, guess what he found? That the projected cash deficit for the year was on target for $286 million. Oh, my goodness, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? We have to scramble around and try to find some bills that we can shove into this year's budget to prove that we were right. That is the reason, I say to the Member from Clarenville, that is the reason we are ramming this bill through. I suggest to you that you talk to your Premier and talk to your Minister of Finance as to why they are doing it, because I know he left you out of the loop on the wage freeze, and I guess he left you out of the loop on this one as well.

Now, when they talked about the deficit and they had their Pricewaterhouse report released, and we were closeted - myself and my colleague right here and the Member from Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi went down for a briefing, but they told us when we went in: Now, boys, if you go in you cannot go out before twelve o'clock because that is when the press conference is. We had to swear that we would not leave after the briefing before the press conference they were holding. I asked the Assistant Deputy Minister of Treasury Board or Finance, when I went in there: Show me how we were $200 million out last year, or $400 million I think it was, the price or the figure that he had that day. She looked at me and she said: Here is one of the items right here, $220 million dollars for student loans. I said: That was not in our budget last year. How come it is there today? The reason it is there today is because you are trying to push it into this year's deficit to inflate the deficit so you do not have to deal with the teachers, the nurses, the nursing assistants, the janitors and the public service of this Province. It was a scam, and you know it. You are trying to inflate the deficit this year so that next year you will be able to look at it and say, we do not have an additional $20 million deficit - $220 million deficit.

I say to the member for Clarenville that he should get in the loop, because if he thinks for one minute -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: - that it does not make a difference between March 31 and April 1, I say withdraw the bill today and bring it in on April 1. That is what I say to the hon. member!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Trinity North.

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I have to correct the member. It is not the district of Clarenville. Clarenville happens to be one of the communities in the District of Trinity North. I represent the wonderful District of Trinity North, which encompasses Port Rexton, Trinity, Champney's, Bonaventure, English Harbour area, all of Random Island, Harcourt, Monroe, Burgoynes Cove, Georges Brook, Milton, Southport, Little Heart's Ease, Hodge's Cove, Caplin Cove, Long Beach, North West Brook, Hillview, Hatchet Cove, St. Jones Within, Clarenville, all of those.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, out of respect to all of the citizens in all of those communities, I would ask the hon. member to refer to my district as Trinity North and not just Clarenville, please.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The point made by the minister is a point of clarification.

The hon. member still has some time left.

There is no point of order.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the second Throne Speech last week, when the Premier got up and read his second Throne Speech, after the Lieutenant-Governor read his, he talked about changing the decorum, things in the House, and how we do things. I sat here, Mr. Speaker, this afternoon for a couple of hours and I think already the members opposite, the members of the government, this afternoon have stood for, wasted, fifteen or twenty minutes here this afternoon on four points of order that you, Mr. Speaker, rose afterwards and said no points of order. I say to the member for Clarenville: No point of order!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I cannot say that I am excited about the bill that is changing a lender because there is nothing in this bill that is going to help the students of Memorial University, CONA, the College of the North Atlantic, or any other educational institution in this Province, because at the end of the day they are still going to have to pay the same tuitions and they are still going to come out with the same debt. So, I am sorry if I cannot be as enthusiastic as the minister who introduced the bill, or his colleagues who sit over there with him, that this is a great bill.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I will sit down now and let someone else speak.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice, in accordance with Standing Order 11, that the House tomorrow not adjourn at 5:30 p.m. nor at 10:00 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, based upon agreement we are about to break for supper, I move Motion 2, which is to move pursuant to Standing Order 11 that the House not adjourn today at 5:30 p.m., and Motion 3, which is again Standing Order 11, that the House not adjourn at 10:00 p.m.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion carried.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Opposition can stand and tell us what they have done, what a great job of reducing tuition by 26 per cent. I say that is fantastic, but they failed to tell us that since 1989, until they started reducing it, they increased it by 300 per cent, basically, the same government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: That is what they told us, 300 per cent. In 1989, I think it was $587, if I remember correctly, way back then, so up 300 per cent and down 26 per cent and they tell you what a great job they are doing.

The Member for Grand Falls-Buchans stands and says: It is a great bill. I did all the work on it. That is why it is a good bill. Then the Member for Twillingate & Fogo stands up and says that we are manipulating, he does not agree with it.

The only difference is that they are on that side and they were on this side before, and they do not like who is presenting the bill, not the substance of the bill, and that is the problem.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Talk about manipulating figures. This government has been brought to task repeatedly for manipulating figures at year end. We are not going to do it, and I can tell you why.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: In 2001, the CIBC informed government they were moving out of the student loan portfolio, and government went out to Request for Proposals last spring. By June they had two bids, but they realized that both of them were too expensive. It was cheaper to go their own route. That government knew in June that they would have to take over this portfolio and they tried to push it to April 1 in the next year so it would not reflect on their particular budget in this year.

For people who do not understand it, and the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi mentioned, that $220 million on a cash basis is going to be higher because of what has happened. He failed to realize that on one side of the ledger there is $220 million as an expense in this year but on the other side of the ledger there is $165 million receivable because there is a collection rate. The net difference on this budget - the net difference from the PWC report is that it has only gone up to $827 million by $55 million because of that transaction, not because of $220 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Anybody who tries to tell any different, Mr. Speaker, is not telling the entire truth because these are the facts. That government stood last year in their budget and proudly told how they were moving to an accrual system of accounting and now they want to count numbers on a cash basis, at consolidated cash and confuse it to twist it whatever way they want.

We are going to give one true set of figures for this Province. That is going to be the true figure, an accrual budget.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: That accrual budget includes a cash component, Mr. Speaker. We will find with any budgets, you budget revenues in a year and at March 31 you may end up in ‘spendage'. You might have a school construction going on and you had hoped to have the $10 million on that spent by the end of March but it may be April before it is spent. You have to carry two or three, or whatever the portion is, on into the next year. They are procedures that go on every single year.

This is an excellent piece of legislation. It allows it to be administered in our Province. Not by collectors going out and chasing down people, paid by people in other parts of this country. It is administered in-house, within our Province, employing Newfoundlanders and Labradorians within the department to do this. That is what is a good thing about this particular piece of legislation. It was great when they were doing it and going to present it but they would not bring it forward because they did not want the cost on their year, so they delayed it and manipulated it to push it beyond year-end. But, on October 21 that all changed and people got an opportunity to accrue that cost.

The same thing happened in post-retirement liabilities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: On May 3 of last year this government passed through Cabinet to calculate post-retirement liabilities. It went through it last May. Work was being done by the actuary to tabulate a post-retirement liability.

When we did an interim report with PricewaterhouseCoopers we were given a ballpark figure by the actuary of $50 million on a cash basis, and $700 million on an accrual basis for the total amount. When we delayed that report by one week - because we were told it was a ballpark figure, if we waited a week we could get a more accurate number from the actuary. We waited a week and we found from the actuary that the cost was $93 million and the total accrual basis was $1.223 billion. Not to include that in a financial statement would be playing the same game these people played by hiding it from the people of the Province. We were not prepared to do that, and we are not going to do it just because they want us to do it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, that day is over when we are playing games with the figures of the Province; hiding, shifting stuff around to make it look better. We are not going to do it. We are absolutely not, and we are going to take this responsibility when we know it is incurred. That is what we are doing. This bill is not only about that, it is about making a positive movement for students in our Province. That is what it is all about. They can talk about it all they like and try to spin out untruths, Mr. Speaker, but we are not going to accept that.

Being now 5:30 p.m., I will adjourn the debate and probably on a full stomach I will even try to give more truth to the people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: I hope they will decide to come back, Mr. Speaker. That they will not stay there but come back and hear the real truth.

MR. SPEAKER: The House stands recessed until 7:00 p.m.

The House resumed sitting at 7:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, just a continuation. Bill 1, second reading of a bill, An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 1.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to make a few comments, and take a few minutes in this debate to refer to Bill 1, because we have heard some commentary today, already, from the minister introducing the bill, and from other participants in the debate, about the significance of an education bill and things of that matter. The fact of the matter, Mr. Speaker, is that we have seen a couple of things that I believe have become clear in the limited debate so far.

One is that this particular bill is admittedly a continuation of an initiative that, regardless of who was elected as the government in October, had to be done. This is something that has to be done, because the previous government and the current government, everybody understands and acknowledges, was given notice from the banks here in Newfoundland and Labrador, just like they have been giving notice to governments all across Canada, that they are no longer going to be in the business of lending money to students, which is not a surprise with respect to the banking community, because again there are other ministers and other departments here in this government today who are confronting that issue with respect to small business, other opportunities. It is a real challenge and there is actually an issue, a question today, with respect to supporting small business in the department now of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, accessing money for investments. In fact, it used to be $20 million some years ago, down to $2 million.

We will see what happens because, as I understand it, the Blue Book which has become the blueprint says that the group that got elected does not believe there should be any assistance for companies anyway. So, I guess it should not be going up. The numbers should be going down to zero, because the business approach is very much like a banking approach, which is: you get the assistance on your own merits, based on your own collateral and your own business plan. So, it is not at all a surprise and there is nothing new about the fact that this particular initiative had to be brought forward and has to be dealt with.

For the record, Mr. Speaker, I think it is clear to again point out the sequence of events that had occurred. In August month of last year, in August of 2003, the government then, with the minister of the day, had received the final notification, no questions asked, that the banks were now definitely withdrawing. There were no other bidders. It was out for a bid to see if some other bank wanted to take over the portfolio of over $200 million in loans. There were no takers. There was going to be no bank involved, and the government was going to have to find a way to deal with the student loan issue, to become the lender, and it was also - and that is the good part about the bill - good to see that it was going to be put together for the convenience of the students, because the students themselves, and their families, had always had the great difficulty of dealing with the Canada Student Loan and the Government of Canada, and the Newfoundland and Labrador Student Loan and the loan here with the bank, two different payment streams, application things that were complicated, so there was a need and good sense to also integrating the whole management of the program.

We were actually very pleased, and we said it at the time, as did the representatives for the students, the Canadian Federation of Students, when the Minister of Education, and I believe it was the Secretary of State for Canada, signed the agreement saying we have come to agreement on the administrative structure, that we can do this together. Again, I think there is some private firm in Ontario someplace that is actually going to do some of the managing of it, but it is going to be done for the benefit of the students.

The issue that has been more, I guess, of debate today and in the couple of months that we have been talking about it, since January 5, leading up to today, is whether or not the time line that is now here in this bill, which sees us in an unprecedented fashion, the first time in the history of the Legislature in Newfoundland and Labrador, that, on the opening day of debate, we see a government in a position saying you have to come back beyond the regular hours of debate. You have to come back and work in the evenings and into the night, all night long, I understand. I understand we are going to be here probably Monday - and this is the way that the Parliament works, and I might be saying this more for some of the viewing audience than some of the people here, although I am sure that some of the people here, because they are still fairly new, probably do not know the rules - this Monday, which we are now debating in, unless there is some way to adjourn by agreement by and by, it can go on forever. We could be here a week from now. In parliamentary terms this could still be Monday, March 22.

What we have is a government, because they were not ready, for whatever reasons, to open earlier, and we, as the Opposition, when it was said first and foremost that the government might have a session before Christmas, my own comment on it was: well, I would suggest that they take the time to get ready. They are a new government. It is a huge change to have a government change for the first time in fifteen years. Any advice I would give - because we do need for the government to succeed in Newfoundland and Labrador on behalf of all our people - was take the time to plan it, get it right, do it right, and then when you are ready let's come in and get at this. The normal time then, according to our rules that we had agreed on in the past, would have been a couple of weeks ago. That got delayed until now and we find ourselves in a circumstance where the government is saying: There is so much pressure on for time that we have to have an unprecedented evening debate on the very first day that the Legislature opens. We are gladly going to participate in it because we want to make certain points. It has already been acknowledged, Mr. Speaker, by at least one of the members on the government side, the Member for Trinity North. We refer to him as the centerfold for trust magazine. You can trust him. You can trust that member. I will not say much more about that.

I invite the new members to get the speech that he made because the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde made the motion in reply to the Speech from the Throne just a couple of days ago, on Thursday, and the Member for Trinity North had that great privilege a couple of years ago and the praise he did not heap on the government of the day. I will tell you, you could trust him. For the rest of you, by the way, I will say this: He made a great speech today. All while he was making the speech he was doing two things: looking at the backs of the crowd in the front row and looking for the eye of the Premier. He is not too far behind. Keep an eye out. You have an eager beaver over there. Believe me, there are a few sayings about caucuses and cactus's and things like - cacti, I guess, would be the proper plural. I will not bother to say it in this speech. We will do that some time later on. There is lots of time for making speeches when you are going to be here for five or six days in a row, making out it is still Monday.

In any event, the other part is the great urgency. So we have ourselves an unprecedented first day nighttime session with no hope, that I can see, for it to ever stop. I cannot imagine it. I cannot imagine this day ever ending, as I see it right now. Maybe the House Leader might be able to make an arrangement for us later on. That is why I do not bother to deal with that too much. I leave that in the capable hands of the House Leaders. They usually have a lot better sense than some of the rest of us, and they find a way to get the business of the House done. We will leave that to the them in a discussion.

The other piece is this, it has been acknowledged by the Member for Trinity North that as far as he knew there was nothing magic about the date on the bill, March 30. That there was no real significance about March 30 or March 29, or March 31, or April 1, or May 24, because normally what would happen here is we would debate pieces of legislation, they would move through the process of second reading, talking about the principle of the bill - which we acknowledge, we agree with. We will have some amendments in the committee stage because we believe there are some ways to improve it a little bit; not to delay it, but just to make some suggestions for the government to consider that we think would make it a better piece of legislation to meet the needs that it is supposed to do at this point in time. Then we would pass the bills around when the House would close for the recess. Very unusual, very unusual!

I have been here for fifteen years, Mr. Speaker, and maybe on one occasion I have seen a bill where the government went to the Opposition and said: Something has just happened that we need to deal with. We do not have a choice. The Opposition agreed that there was no choice. Something had come up, a circumstance that nobody had anticipated, that nobody had planned for. It needed to be dealt with and the Opposition co-operated. The bill was passed and given full and final reading and approval before the normal time at the closing of the session; in this case for the summer recess.

We are being told here - and the Member for Lewisporte has a great phrase that I have listened to a lot and I have come to appreciate it over the years: We have the hobnailed boots coming down as fast as you can get it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: On the very first day - I hope you will make a speech about it sometime, and he will probably enlighten the members on the government side, Mr. Speaker, in the caucus, because it is a fact of exactly that. We have a bit of a pretense going on here. I do not think the minister suggested that today in his introduction of the bill. He did not pretend that this absolutely had to be done for some reason by March 30, and that if it did not happen until a week later or two weeks later that the students - this is all about students and their loans in the education system - that it would have any impact whatsoever on the student loans system or the students or what is going to happen, because he would not do that. Ever since I have seen him in the Legislature, he has been an hon. member and he would not try to mislead people by saying that, because he knows in his heart of hearts, as the minister, that is just not true. In here we tell the truth, because this is where we come as members to tell the truth exactly as we know it and we see it. So there is absolutely no circumstance under which the students themselves would be any way disadvantaged if this bill did not pass until probably the May 24 weekend. Not at all, no disadvantage to them.

MR. E. BYRNE: Do you support the bill?

MR. GRIMES: I absolutely support the bill in principle, which is what this debate is about. The Government House Leader knows that, Mr. Speaker, better than anybody else. This is a debate about whether or not you support the bill in principle, not the details of it; that is the next stage. In principle, I personally and this Opposition absolutely support the bill. It is the right thing to do; and, not only that, the government has no choice but to do it.

The issue to suggest that we need to be here in the nighttime on the very first day because there is some pressure brought to bear is a false one. That is a false premise from the very first start, and I think we have seen enough already that it looks like we are going to get a pretty heavy-handed approach from this particular government. I guess that is what the leader of the government, the Premier, was saying in the Maclean's magazine, when he really said both things. He said he would rather not have to come here at all. He preferred the place never, ever opened. It is a waste of time.

That might be his personal opinion, and I guess he felt free to say that up in Toronto, sitting down in a nice, comfortable board room with some people in a business environment. Then, in the Throne Speech when it was written, there is a whole section on the respect. Maybe, Mr. Speaker, if I could just for a second, it is probably even worth making a reference to. There is a whole section on the importance and relevance of this Legislature. "Therefore, my Government will restore the House of Assembly to its rightful place as the "the people's House" by significantly strengthening its role."

Now, I guarantee you one thing. That did not show up in Maclean's Magazine. What it said in Maclean's Magazine is that this place probably should never open. It would be the finest kind with him if we never, ever had to bother with this place. So, why did we get elected? Then you wonder why. I always wonder why. The puzzle for me is, which one of these two Premiers is going to show up on any one day? Is it the one who is going to talk about democratic reform and restoring the House of Assembly to its rightful place, bringing back the dignity and improving the great decorum that we have seen so far today? I have to say it for the TV audience, Mr. Speaker, again I will say it and I will keep a straight face, it is the first time in fifteen years that I have seen such a show of poor decorum on the opening day. I have seen some times after we got used to each other in a session where it got a bit raggedy later on. I am not saying we are all innocent here, and I am not saying I have been innocent myself, but I can tell you one thing: For a first day, for a new government, so proud of what they are doing, it was not great, and I think the people of the Province will judge that for themselves over time.

You have the issue of an unprecedented first night, all under the guise that we are under some kind of pressure, that the sky will fall somehow if we do not do something extraordinary and pass this bill in a few days. There is no sky to fall on this issue, Mr. Speaker. It is not a circumstance that can happen. We have my great friend, the Minister of Finance, my neighbour, and I am concerned about his health. He was back to turning a bit red again, earlier. He gets a little bit excited. Even when I played hockey with him, I used to talk to him about that kind of stuff. Relax a little. You are good enough. You do not need to be going all-out all the time. Relax. You are smart at that. He is a good Member of the House of Assembly. He will probably make a good Minister of Finance if he ever gets his head around it. If he ever figures it out, he might make a good Minister of Finance.

The issue again today, talking about the fact that there is some pressure here with the money, and he talks about the issue of: I will not do the kinds of things that the Liberals used to do, manipulate the cash at the end of the year.

Sure, we heard it in the Reports of the Auditor General for six or seven years in a row, and the government that I led presented the first ever accrual statement in the House of Assembly, which is the one that is going to finish up in a couple of weeks' time. It was done because Auditors General said we should do it. We took the time to plan it. We did do it, and the Auditor General, in presenting the report on the fiscal year that finished a year ago, looked at it and presented the circumstance as it was, a cash deficit that was lower than anticipated, an accrual deficit that was, in fact, headed in the wrong direction.

Everybody knew going into the election that there was a financial circumstance that needed some serious attention, that had to be dealt with. Again, the issue here is the Premier of the Province, in making his January 5 address, saying, there are a couple or three things really wrong. One is that this year the Budget for 2003 and 2004, which ends in a couple of weeks' time, at the end of the month, is seriously out of whack. It has gone from $286 million to $506 million, so he wanted to make people believe that the group that were there, which was a period of time in which the Liberals were the government, that it was out of control. Of course, there have been other reports since that said: Look, there was nothing out of control. The Budget, as was pointed out by the Member for Twillingate & Fogo earlier today, was right on target. It is right in the PricewaterhouseCoopers report. Right on target. By the way, Mr. Speaker, you would know as well as anybody, having been a long-term member of this House, that is the reason; not whether there was a surplus or a deficit, but the fact that governments laid out a plan and came in right on target or exceeded the targets. That is the reason that, for the first time in seventy years, the government today is still enjoying an A credit rating from two bond rating agencies at the same time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: We have a Premier going around desperately trying to scare people so badly that they are writing and saying: If you are going to keep up what you are saying, if you guys do not have a plan to deal with this, you are going to lose your rating.

The one person going around the country is proud of the fact that he took the Taoiseach of Ireland and stressed the circumstance to him so much that he was horrified. Sure, he has horrified most of Newfoundland and Labrador. He horrifies everybody he talks to, Mr. Speaker. They are trying to horrify people with respect to the $220 million contained in this particular bill, because it makes no difference except for the fact that it means the speech they have been making about the Budget is right if we do it before March 31. If we do not do it before March 31, then the speech they have been making about the Budget is wrong and they are going to be shown to be wrong.

We understand this - we understand the parliamentary process - there are enough of them over there, Mr. Speaker, to do what they want. That is the way this system works. There are enough of them to do what they want, but the one thing they cannot do, they cannot bully us, they cannot threaten us. We can do it when the time comes, and we can be outnumbered in a vote. That is what will happen, and they cannot shut us up, because this is the place where you get elected, democratic reform. This is the people's House. This is where we have freedom of speech. This is where we can say our part. This is where we can say our piece.

I tell you, there are a lot of people, Mr. Speaker, who see our view of it just as much or more so as they see the government's view of it, and they are frightened to death that they might not get the bill passed in time because then they are going to have to adjust the numbers and the $220 million is going to have to go into the next fiscal year.

The time frames were these, Mr. Speaker: In August, everybody knew the banks were not going to be involved. The exchange of correspondence was: Let us know by February if you want to go into the next year or not. The new government didn't wait until February. The new government got elected and had it done in November, even before they had the PricewaterhouseCoopers Report or anything else. They checked with someone in the department, where they got all their information: Listen, if you want to do something with the numbers, here is $220 million, you can do it right away; no report, no external document, no review, no nothing, Mr. Speaker. They decided to put it in and send the number to an external group.

Mr. Speaker, we don't have any difficulty with this bill in principle, but we will sing from the treetops and shout from the treetops and make sure people understand that there is a little bit of a scam going on here about the numbers. That is the only reason we are here tonight, otherwise we would be here tomorrow continuing the debate. It would pass at second reading in reasonable time, we would go through a committee, suggest some amendments that the government may or may not accept, that would pass and the bill would pass; no doubt it. We believe the bill should pass, and we will vote for the bill to pass at a point in time.

Everybody needs to know that the real flaw in this is the fabricated urgency around March 30. Maybe even some of the members opposite, Mr. Speaker, haven't been told the real story. I will tell you one thing, one of them stood up today and said: Sure, March 30 does not mean anything, the date on the bill is not important. Well, it is very important, to perpetrate that little bit of a fraud about the numbers, Mr. Speaker, but it is not at all important to deal with the issue. The issue should be dealt with, has to be dealt with, I commend the government for dealing with it, but I will tell you one thing we will let everybody know, until the cows come home, about how this is all a part of the scheming around the numbers.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker's attention has been brought to the expression by the hon. member in which he uses the expression, perpetrating a fraud. I do believe that expression would find difficulty in most parliamentary processes, because that indicates to members that government may not be operating with the correct motives.

I ask the Leader of the Opposition, if he would withdraw the expression, perpetrating a fraud.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Always wanting to show complete and total respect for yourself in the Chair and for the parliamentary rules, I absolutely withdraw the comment.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to stand to just say a few comments on this. I am not going to go too long, as the Leader of the Opposition had said and finally ended up with his twenty minutes taken anyway.

It is interesting, Mr. Speaker, as you listen to the Leader of the Opposition talk about decorum in the House, and he has been here for fifteen years and how things sort of fell apart today. Well, I have only been here eleven, and believe me, I have seen a lot worse shape than I saw today. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that as the Leader of the Opposition stood - the same as the minister did today, both ministers across the way - he confused people even more. The fact of the matter is, it is all about streamlining and integration. Everybody admitted to that. The fact of the matter is, also, it is unprecedented. I have never seen it in my eleven years here, that we have an Opposition - and everybody is asking this question today - who agrees. They do not see any problem with it. I have never seen it in eleven years when we sat on that side of the House, where we said we agree with the bill but we are going to keep you up all night for the next two or three days to debate it.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the truth is that many students in this Province are out there today, and here is the Leader of the Opposition, the Leader who is going to lead this group across the way, telling students out there tonight who are watching this debate, who are more confused than ever because the minister stood in her place to begin to tell us today that all the groundwork is done. Do not worry about anything. Sit back in your chair. All the groundwork is done. All we need to do now, she said, is sign on the dotted line.

Mr. Speaker, while students are out there today looking at this as an improvement - which it is, it is an integration of the system which makes it better. We deal day by day, every member in this House. Nobody has a monopoly on the problems that we hear from students. I deal with them everyday. I respect every member in the House when they deal with students. We all know some of the problems there, that this is basically an integration of streamlining a better service for students in this Province. That is what we should be speaking about.

The Leader of the Opposition gets up to speak for twenty minutes, Mr. Speaker. I counted it, once he mentioned the word student. That is what he mentioned in this House. This is going to be the Leader of the Opposition who is going to lead the Opposition and be constructive: We are not going to criticize for the sake of criticizing. We agree with the bill and we are going to vote to support it, but we are going to sit here and sing from the treetops. That is what he is going to do. So that is leadership. That is why they are there. That is all about it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, the students who are listening, if there are any students listening tonight to this debate through television, they are just concerned about one thing: moving on with this. They agreed with what we all said on both sides here today, when debate was going on. It is streamlining. It is something that had to be done. We knew in 2001 - of course, then we were given more warnings as time went on, but now the minister is saying herself, the former Minister of Post-Secondary Education, that it is time to get on with it. Many people out there today, including parents and students, are saying: Let's get on with it.

If the Leader of the Opposition wanted to make a point, which he just did - and that is his right to do in this House and he should do it and every member opposite should do it, and every member on this side should do it. He made the points, and other members are going to make the same points, but what is the sense and what reason and what confusion he is placing out there in students and parents in saying: We support it. We had all the work done. The groundwork was done. We are ready to sign on the dotted line what we are going to -

MR. E. BYRNE: But not now.

MR. SHELLEY: But not now. It is not good timing for us, Mr. Speaker. That is what he is saying. That is the fact of the matter.

The former Minister of Education had the gall to get up today and talk about how in the last three years we decreased by 26 per cent, and he wanted a pat on the back. Yes, it has - I agree - decreased by 26 per cent, but he forgot to mention that since 1989 tuition in this Province has increased by 300 per cent. To do the math, as the Minister of Finance began to do today - I remember very well. I came here in 1993. I saw what this government was doing with tuition at that time and students in this Province. The students who remember will remember the tuition in 1989 and what we ended up with today. Yes, there are decreases but not enough, I say to the member opposite. He knows full well what that government has done since 1989.

Each one of them as they stand in their place, Mr. Speaker - forget the last eleven, twelve or fourteen years. Let's forget all of them. Let's just talk about the last couple of years that they served here in government. They want us to forget about the Wells Administration and the Tobin Administration. It was all Liberal Administrations since 1989 in this Province and that is what people are not going to forget.

The other thing that they want us to throw out the window are the numbers, the fiscal situation. They always bounce back and forth with the numbers. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that this Province is not in a good financial state. Play with the numbers as much as you want. That is why decisions have to be made, and tough decisions have to be made, and this government is ready to make those decisions, Mr. Speaker, for the betterment of students down the road and long term. That is what it means.

As the Opposition continue to rise in their place today and make their points on whether the numbers are right or wrong, or whether the date is right or wrong, the students in the Province are looking to the Opposition and government to say, we want you to get on with this. You can debate and argue back and forth and get in the media all day long and talk about numbers and you can talk about dates until you are blue in the face, but the students to each one of us in this House tonight, and throughout this debate, you can debate in public, you can do whatever you want with the media, but we want you to pass this bill and move on so that we can streamline this system and get on with a better reality for students in the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: That is what they are saying.

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is right. As we get into Committee stage, he can go on for a long time and he can make points - and I hope he does, when we get into Committee. He does know the House well. When he stands in his ten minutes back and forth they will get, hopefully, specific about some of the problems they have. I doubt it very much, Mr. Speaker, to be honest with you. I doubt that it is going to happen; but, Mr. Speaker, when we do, we will all have our chance to make sure that the message gets out across this Province to students who are waiting for us, as the group of people who govern this Province, to move on with this particular bill.

As the former minister said, we did all the groundwork. Just sign on the dotted line and let's get on with it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure this evening, Mr. Speaker, to rise and say a few words about Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act.

Before I start my comments, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the good people in Labrador West for their support on October 21, in returning me to the House of Assembly to represent their interests, which I pledge to do to the best of my ability.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, this is an important bill because the importance of a quality education is probably the single most important thing in the Province for our young people who are indeed the future of our Province. This bill will hopefully streamline and remove some of the red tape and the bureaucracy that was associated with previous administrators of the Student Loans Program.

Mr. Speaker, I can recall students from my district, and I know they are from other districts in this Province as well, who, as late as November in a semester, had to drop their course of study because their student loans had not come through and they could not afford to stay in St. John's, Corner Brook, or wherever they might have been to continue their studies, because they did not have the financial means to do so. Hopefully under this program, with this change, this Student Loans Program will be administered more quickly so it can - at least now, Mr. Speaker, there are people within our own Province to whom we can go directly to make sure that what happened in the past does not happen in the future.

Mr. Speaker, we talk about tuition freezes, and the debt that students incur. Four years of university, in 1989, an average student debt at that particular time was approximately $8,000. In 1996, that debt increased to approximately $24,000 to $25,000 to what is now about $30,000, especially when you factor in the students from rural areas of this Province and the additional debt that they incur.

Mr. Speaker, students have been forced to incur a debt that we could equate, when we were their age, to being a mortgage. Heaven forbid, two students who meet during university end up getting married and having a family and both of them have that debt. It is a very dismal future that they face indeed. Mr. Speaker, it is one of the reasons why students leave this Province. They have to leave to earn the most money possible that they can, whether it is in the Alberta's of this country or whether it is south of the border, so that they can pay off their student debt, get on with their lives, and raise a family.

Mr. Speaker, one of the tragedies of that situation is that when these young people leave, when they get settled in a new location, many of them will not be able to be in a position to easily pack up and move back to this Province where, I would suggest, they would want to be. Because of a lot of reasons, as the number of years pass, they will not be able to do that. They will not be in a position to do that, for many, many reasons.

Mr. Speaker, there was a time in this Province when students got paid for going to school, when students at MUN got paid. They did not incur the debt at that time. There was also a time when, if somebody wanted to go to a community college and they were eligible to collect EI, they could do so without meeting the stringent stipulations that are placed upon them today, and that is something that government should be focusing on, to use the $40 billion to $50 billion surplus in the EI fund that could be used for training, that is not being used for training, to the detriment of mostly young people in this country.

Mr. Speaker, there is another issue about student debt that we have to talk about, and it needs to be talked about, and that is students from rural areas of this Province, and particularly in the Labrador region of this Province. With the high cost of travel, with the living away from home, costs that are associated with going to school, with all of the other incidental expenditures that they incur, they are certainly disadvantaged in comparison to their fellow students who are from urban areas, who can go home to lunch, who can live at home while they are getting their education. That is something that I hope, in the future, this government will work towards eliminating and easing so that rural students from our Province can get an education at a comparable cost to students who live in urban areas, and right now that is not the case.

Another area, Mr. Speaker, that I spoke on in this House of Assembly on many occasions concerns the parents who pay for their children's education. That is done, not because they are rich, not because they are millionaires. That is done because they want to help their sons and daughters get an education without incurring a debt that people not in their position probably will have to incur, but it is not done at any cost or for lack of a price. These families pay a price, and they pay a price by not being able to do the things that they should be able to do with remaining members of their family. I know people who have delayed their retirement, who have spent their life savings, cashed in their RRSPs to assist their sons and daughters get an education so that they will be debt free or have as little debt as possible. Mr. Speaker, that creates another problem because these people have no other option but to stay in the workforce longer, thereby denying an opportunity for employment to some younger person. It is a vicious circle, to which there is no relief in sight, and the very least that this government can do is to have some kind of a tax break for parents who find themselves in that position, because what they are mainly financing is the difference between the tuition and the other costs associated with getting an education when you have to travel to a larger centre in order to get the post-secondary education that you require or that you want to pursue.

We have also heard today from many speakers, Mr. Speaker, the question of public versus private institutions. There is no doubt in my mind that students and the parents in this Province should expect no less than a good public system that meets the needs of the young people of our Province. There should be enough courses available in the curriculum in all our community colleges and at our other post-secondary education centers to make sure that we do not have to turn to the private sector where many times it is profit driven. We need to have our own publicly-funded system, but in order to do that we have to have the curriculum that meets the needs of the people who will be attending.

There are many problems in the area of education within our Province, whether we are talking about interest relief, whether we are talking about the Loan Remission Program that certainly disadvantages single parents, particularly single female students. It is a question that should be addressed. It is an issue that is serious, because in order to meet some of these programs that are currently in effect you have to have a full-time status at the institution, which means you have to take a minimum of four courses and pass all four. That is certainly hard for a single parent to be able to meet, but they should, given the initiative that they have to continue their education in spite of some personal uphills that they may have to overcome, they should be entitled to the same break as other people who are not in the situation that they are.

Mr. Speaker, I support this bill. I think it will alleviate a lot of the problems that students have been experiencing between the federal system and the provincial system; not knowing, sometimes, which part of the problem was causing them the most trouble, sometimes thinking that if they had interest relief from one loan that it automatically applied to the second, only to find out later that was not the case; having to track down different people in different departments to try and straighten out any problems that they may have. If this helps young people in this Province, which I am sure it will, to cut through the red tape, to put in something that is more streamlined, something they can avail of sooner so that they do not have to drop out of their course of study partway through because their loan has not come into effect, then this bill will certainly have done its job.

Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting this bill because I believe it is a step in the right direction. Even though we had no choice in probably putting through this piece of legislation, I say it is probably one of the few times in my life that I can thank the banks for not doing something.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Her, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is certainly a pleasure to rise here tonight, again, as a newly-elected Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne. Certainly, like my previous colleague was mentioning, I want to thank the constituents for sending me back to this Chamber for yet another term. I am equally as proud, Mr. Speaker, to stand here tonight and to see the first bill on this government's agenda dealing with students: those who are most precious, those who are the future of this Province, those who have given a lot and will give so much more, given the opportunity.

I am a little bit put off, I must say, Mr. Speaker, because this is certainly good news but even good news does not seem to be getting across to the other side. I have had members get up on the other side. I had the former Minister of Education, Post-Secondary Education, get up and somehow link sewer services to this bill. I do not know if she thinks that this stinks, but I have to say to my colleague across the way, that is a stretch in anyone's imagination, because for you, as an architect, evidently, of this particular bill, to get up and to get on with that type of nonsense is ridiculous.

When we talk about a bill that deals with learning, that deals with students, I think those who get up to speak about it should get up with some class, and I do not see that here today on that side of the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Getting on, Mr. Speaker, where they had left off on this side of the House, that put them on that side of the House. I say to the members opposite, get a life. Come alive. See what is there.

The Minister of Education got up today and, I thought, led off in a manner which gave everyone in this House an opportunity to get up and really speak positively about a good initiative. The minister did not say that the initiative started here. He acknowledged that it started with you crowd, but look what you have done with it - honourable crowd, I might say.

Here we bring something else into it now. I hear the members now yapping away over there again, yapping away. The member that I am referring to, I have not heard him yap today but he is getting back to himself, I must say, since you were on this side of the House. It is good to hear that you have not changed.

To get back, Mr. Speaker, to why I have risen here, and that is to talk about my support of Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act. This is a good act, and it is all about students. Let me talk about students for a moment. I know the Leader of the Opposition mentioned students once in all that he said, but I guess he was trying to give us a lesson - talk about learning! - I suppose the Opposition Leader was trying to give us a lesson in decor or decorum, whatever it was.

This particular bill is a very, very important bill, and one that needs to go through in the time limit that has been set out for it. It is interesting to hear about how things are unfolding or did unfold. The March 31 deadline keeps coming up. As the Leader of the Opposition said: Sure, we can do that May 24. Let me say to the Leader of the Opposition that we certainly need to have this bill passed by March 31. One reason was that there was a deadline put on this bill by the hon. crowd on the other side and it was, Mr. Speaker, March 31. Their target date to get this passed through the House was a February date that the Leader of the Opposition referred to.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) not true.

MR. HEDDERSON: Not true. I hear it is not true.

The March 31 deadline was there. We have to remember, as well, that we are not the only party involved in this. We have the CIBC and we have the federal government. For once, I guess, we have a federal government that is standing shoulder to shoulder with us in - and I hear a chuckle from over across the way. Obviously, the federal co-operation on this particular bill is there, and they stepped up to the plate. Now, if we are going to mess around with deadlines, it is not only the deadline for this House but we have to look at the feds and we have to look at CIBC. If we decide to extend the deadline, what might happen? If you were a party in a contract, what can you do? You can walk away. CIBC can say: Okay, we can give you an extension but it is going to cost you. It is not as simple as it is portrayed from that side of the House, let me tell you.

Let's get back to the students, and the students, as we know, Mr. Speaker, certainly do have a heavy debt load, and that is not the discussion here tonight, even though it is discussed and we should always remind ourselves of the horrendous debt that some of our students, and most of our students, find themselves under. When we talk about student debt - and I also heard from the other side: Okay, you are doing it by March 31 because, something about, you are adding to the deficit. I heard all sorts of references to: oh, this is manipulated from this side. But, as it was pointed out by our Finance Minister - and something that we all should be aware of when it comes to students - the students of this Province do not look upon this as a debt that they are putting on the shoulders of this particular government. You have to remember that these students pay off their loans. Not all of them, but most of them do. What the Minister of Finance said was that when this money comes back in we are going to, at least by the current rate, get back $160 million. The only thing is the default rate which would be the $55 million, but it is not $220 million. By the way, it is $210 million, just to let everyone know. The $220 million was the projection.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. HEDDERSON: Yes, absolutely.

I say to you, Mr. Speaker, that the students of this Province are not putting a $210 million, a $220 million debt upon the Province. They are putting, at the very most, $55 million. Hopefully, because this is with regard to the integration agreement. This is part of it. We want to cut down on the red tape. We want to cut down on the duplication. We want to make sure that the students of this Province are advised when their loan is due - that they are there and that it is not four calls. It is only one call, and they know. This is the point, hopefully, that this will help.

I heard, again, another former Minister of Education: Well, this is not much. I cannot get excited about this. There is nothing to get excited about. What is in it for students? What is in it for students is an opportunity, once again, to manage their debt in a manner which allows them to repay it. This is what it is all about.

I would say to the members opposite, this Bill 1 is, indeed, a very, very important bill. A bill that needs passage through. I hear support. Reluctantly, I hear support coming this way. Even the good news they do not want to share with us. This is a major achievement. Just to remind you, it is an agreement which we have fashioned with the federal government, with CIBC, that we are moving forward. The Student Loan Corporation of Newfoundland and Labrador will certainly be the lender. It will be to the advantage of the students, and, indeed, an advantage to the people of this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I say, Mr. Speaker, that the students in this Province lobbied hard for this. Again, I make reference, as the minister did, to the Canadian Federation of Students. In particular, the chapter that is here, whose President is Mr. Keith Dunn. That gentleman certainly lobbied hard for this and is waiting for its passage and will be very pleased to see it go through because, again, it is for the advantage of the student. The process would be streamlines. There is certainly an opportunity for this government to demonstrate, by the passage of this bill, that we are indeed moving forward; that we are indeed bringing forth a bill that can be nothing but an advantage for those that it is going to apply to.

On those words, Mr. Speaker, I will certainly talk about my support for this bill. I look forward to further debate as we move forward. Again, let's make sure that we look at this in the positive sense that it is and let's not talk about this as being a drag on this Province. This student file, this $210 million is certainly not, I guess, adding to the deficit as much as it is adding to our assets.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is good to get an opportunity again to rise on my feet and speak in this House of Assembly. To start off, first of all, I would like to thank the constituents of the Bellevue District for electing me for the fifth time to this House of Assembly. On April 20 it will be the fifteen anniversary of being elected to the House of Assembly and it is indeed a great honour. I sat here a few days ago and listened to the new members, in terms of giving their response to the Speech from the Throne, and know what it is and what a great honour it is to get elected to this great Assembly to represent the people in your constituency.

I also, at this time, would like to congratulate Your Honour on your election as Speaker of this House. You have been around for a long time and served this House well, and I am sure you will bring what is necessary to the job as Speaker. I think that your past and your history within politics served you well and I am sure you will do the job that is necessary in this hon. House.

The other two people I would like to congratulate on being elected are the Deputy Speaker, the Member for Bonavista South, and the great role that he has played in the House of Assembly in terms of participating in the debate. I occupied the position of Deputy Speaker for a period of time in this House of Assembly and realize how important the job is. Also, I would like to congratulate the hon. Member for St. John's West. We, over the years, shared a few barbs across the House of Assembly. It is so nice to see her in the position now because she is going to be in that Chair trying to bring some decorum to this House. Now, Madam Speaker, when you occupy the Chair we will give you the respect that you deserve. It is nice to see you back in the House of Assembly. We had anticipated that these three individuals would probably have been on the front benches of this government, but we all know that did not happen. I am sure they would have made a great contribution to the government. It is the government's loss that their roles within the House of Assembly are the roles of an impartial nature rather than one of a partisan nature. I would like to congratulate them.

I would also like to congratulate Stephen Harper on being elected Leader of the Conservative Party and to know that Jack Layton did not come in first place but he came in a very poor fourth, I think. He did give a response to our hon. Premier in terms of where he stood on the offshore oil file. Regretfully, Jack Layton only placed fourth in the Conservative leadership race. I do congratulate Stephen Harper in terms of being elected as Leader of the Conservative Party. We all know that he is going to give us all the offshore royalties and revenues. It is nice to know that we had better watch the kind of words that he said because they may come back to haunt us.

I cannot say that I could stand in this House of Assembly today and say that I would be excited, and say that I am very, very pleased that we are here in the first session of the House of Assembly talking about loans and student loans. I do not get very excited when I hear that. I do not get very excited about -

AN HON. MEMBER: You don't sound excited.

MR. BARRETT: No, I don't sound excited either. As a matter of fact, it is very, very depressing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: It is very, very depressing to know that we are here tonight and we will probably be here until the wee hours of the morning passing a bill so that we can put our students in debt, $40,000, $30,0000, $20,000, $10,000 or $5,000. We have students graduating with debt.

I would be very excited tonight if this new government, with this new approach, was introducing a bill in the House of Assembly saying that we are taking the loans away from the CIBC, from the bank, that we are taking the loan portfolio and we are going to write them up but we are going to give them to them interest free. That is what I would like to be discussing tonight. That is what I would like to be doing, because this particular bill here provides no relief whatsoever to the students of Newfoundland and Labrador. All we are doing is transferring the loans from the CIBC -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: - bank to the provincial government. We still have students in this Province who will still be faced with loans.

I heard the Member for Harbour Main talk about, we are here talking about not doing anything for students. I do not think that this government should be very, very proud that the first bill that they are introducing for the students of this Province is telling them: Students, we are going to take over your loans. We are going to take over your debt.

What exciting news would you have? I would much prefer if you were coming in and stealing some of the things from the Liberal Red Book in terms of where we talked about students. I look forward to when the Minister of Finance comes in with the Budget. I am sure that he is going to bring in that the first $100,000 or $200,000 - it was interesting that Tony Clement, who was running for the Conservative Party, was talking about giving students - he took it from our Red Book - talked about giving the first $250,000 tax free.

AN HON. MEMBER: Did you vote for him?

MR. BARRETT: I never voted for Tony Clement. I voted for Jack Layton, but I did not vote for Tony Clement. I did not have it confused like your leader did, or anything like that. I knew. I watched the speeches because I am a political animal and I like to know where those leaders in the country stand and what their issues are, whether it is NDP or whether it is Alliance, or Reform, or Progressive Conservative. It does not really matter. I watch these. I am a political animal and I watch it with great curiosity in terms of what they are going to give. What are the things they are going to offer this Province? We talk about the resources that we have. I would much prefer if we were in here tonight getting a gift from the Liberal government of the 8.5 per cent shares in Hibernia.

I presented a proposal -

AN HON. MEMBER: A power point proposal.

MR. BARRETT: A power point proposal. As a matter of fact, up to this point, all you have ever done is sent the Premier up for a dinner to tell us how bad we are. At least I did not go up and sit next to the President of Ireland and say how bad we are down in Newfoundland and Labrador. I went to Ottawa to meet with Paul Martin, to outline that we should take the 8.5 per cent from Hibernia and give it to Newfoundland and Labrador, and one of the options I presented to him at that particular time was, we would take the money and we would finance post-secondary education in this Province. Take the $120 million, finance the Memorial University, finance the College of the North Atlantic. Notice, I said the Memorial University, the College of the North Atlantic, and to also reduce and probably eliminate the tuition fees.

I was one of the fortunate people in Newfoundland and Labrador. I graduated from Memorial University in 1969, with no loans. I graduated in 1969, with no loans -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: - with no loans from Memorial University, because when I went to the University under a Liberal government we got free tuition.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: You can say what you like, the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, about Joey Smallwood, but people like me benefitted from the Liberal government and from free tuition, and at the last year in University I got $100 a month to assist me. Being an orphan from Woody Island, and growing up as an orphan - my father died because of the conditions in the lumber woods at that particular time. I am not ashamed to say it. You watch what you are saying in this particular House of Assembly, the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: No, I am saying that, as a person who grew up on Woody Island, I would not have had the opportunity to get a post-secondary education. I was proud to be part of the government, a part of a government in the last three years that started the process of reducing the tuition fees for our Newfoundland and Labrador students -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: - proud to be part of the Roger Grimes government that decided that we were going to do something about the tuition fees, something about the high cost of tuition fees. I am sure if we were blessed by being elected again - and the people of the Province have spoken. They have you for the next four years. They will have you for the next four years. There is no doubt about that. They will have you for the next four years, but it will be only four years and we will be on that side so that we can bring in greater reforms for the students of Newfoundland and Labrador, so that the students will not have the high debt that they have right now.

We talk about tuition fees, and you members across the way said -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: The hon. members. We are not the hon. crowd, I can assure you that. We are hon. members on this side. You might be a crowd over there, but we are hon. members on this side.

It is amazing that we are here tonight. I do not mind supporting a bill that says we are going to take one loan from CIBC and give it to the government. I have no problem with the bill as such. I will vote for the bill, but I would be more excited if we said that we are going to give students interest-free loans for the rest of their university or post-secondary days.

Probably I will introduce that amendment when we get to Committee of the Whole, that the loans should be allocated to students interest free. I am sure that every member on that side of the House will support me in my efforts.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, would like to join with others and certainly take the opportunity on this, my first time to speak in this Assembly, to thank the wonderful people of Placentia & St. Mary's for their overwhelming show of support on October 21, to me personally and this government, Mr. Speaker, and to congratulate all members on their re-election to the office. We are all here for the same purpose, to do the best that we can on behalf of the people we represent, and hopefully at the end of the day we can live with that and the people of the Province can, too.

I would like congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, on being in the history books as the first elected Speaker of the House of Assembly.

]SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: We certainly await, with anticipation, your judgements on points that will be brought forward in this House, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank my family, my campaign workers and my supporters from Ship Harbour to St. Shotts in that great district of Placentia & St. Mary's. As always, Mr. Speaker, I promise to do my best to represent them in this hon. House and I feel very confident that we will do so as a government under the leadership of Premier Williams.

Mr. Speaker, we, on this side of the House, feel no different than the members on the other side. To be here today with a bill talking about the students, student debt, and ways of addressing that student debt and ways of making it easier for students to deal with their debt. We, on this side of the House, will do everything we can as a government to make that burden less than what it is today on behalf of the students of this Province. That is our goal. That is our mandate we believe and we will do that. To think for a second that we, on this side of the House, would not want to stand in our place today, or any day for that matter, and say that we would want to wipe out student loans, that we would want to wipe out interest on student loans, that we would want to provide free education, Mr. Speaker, that is what we would love to do. That is what we would love to do as a government. We would like to be able to do that, but we cannot do that right at the present time. We will strive to do that. We will strive to do anything that is possible to lessen the burden on students, but we cannot do that today because of the past fifteen years of mismanagement of the finances of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, we cannot live in denial. Denial is that our economy is great, out-migration is over, and that we are leading Canada in several growth categories. The reality is that we are approaching a $10 billion debt and deficits of $1 billion a year. That is the reality that we are dealt with. That is the reality that we have been given as a government, Mr. Speaker. The reason that we have that - I listened to the former Premier, the Leader of the Opposition tonight in his remarks when he came back from supper and tried to convince us on this side of the House, and convince the people in the Province who are listening, that it was not out of control in the past number of years, that things were not out of control. Everybody had their hand on the tiller, they were steaming straight ahead and it was not out of control. Mr. Speaker, once again, I beg to differ that it was out of control.

I look over at the few who are left on that side of the House, Mr. Speaker - and I am surprised there are that many back there - but I look over and see how many are left on that side of the House and I say to myself, it was out of control. I am going to give you a couple of examples of why we are in the financial mess that we are in in this Province today, Mr. Speaker, because the previous Administration, and the previous Administration before that, were out of control.

Mr. Speaker, and I look over at the former Minister of Government Services and Lands, the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace - who, by the way, has quietened down since he went on that side of the House.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I can see what you did in the last couple of years that you were in government, and that is what we are about here, Mr. Speaker. That is what we are about here!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: When that particular member was a minister, the former Minister of Government Services and Lands, spent $7,500 in the last four months of his Administration when he was there. Now listen to this because this is important, why we are in the mess that we are in today. Listen to this, he spent $3,000 for 190 shirts and jackets. One hundred and ninety shirts and jackets, $3,000. According to the invoices he bought sixteen polo shirts for $285 and embroidered Minister George Sweeney across here. I would like to - what would any person - I am sure nobody else would want to wear them, so why would you want sixteen golf shirts for yourself, Mr. Speaker, that is the question?

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been called.

MR. MANNING: That is why we are in the mess we are in, and that is the kind of out of control that I am talking about here tonight, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been called.

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the hon. member produce the shirts if that is so true what he is saying. It simply is not true. I had no shirts monogramed with my name on it. The shirts were used over there, as the minister well knows. They are over there in one of her offices somewhere. They were all left there, I know, what was not used. They were all left there. So, it is very important, I say to the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, very, very important. I do not know what you hatched up when you were up there by yourself on the fifth floor and would not come down with the rest of your caucus. I do not know what you were hatching up over there. Maybe it is your conversations out there with John Cabot in the daytime, I am not sure, but whatever it is, get your facts right before you make accusations about me or anyone else on this side of the House.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker will take the matter of the point of order under advisement and come back at a later date and make a ruling on it.

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly cannot produce the golf shirts. Number one, my name is not on them. I cannot produce them. Maybe they are in Beaton Tulk's desk.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: No, I am not finished yet. Just hang on for a second, I am not finished yet.

Along with the 190 shirts and jackets, Mr. Speaker, the member opposite, the former Minister of Government Services and Lands, paid $1,800 for an assortment of 110 T-shirts, golf shirts and sweatshirts. He also bought sixty-four shirts and jackets with the Newfoundland and Labrador logo on it out of his department. That is four fleece jackets at a cost of $60 a pop. That is why we are in the financial mess we are in, because indeed, it was out of control. That is why we are sitting down today and we are trying to deal with a student issue here, put forward to us today.

MR. SWEENEY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been called by the Member for Carbonear- Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, there is only one thing wrong with what the member is saying, and that is he does not know what he is talking about. That department needed a lot of shirts and promotional items. If you look around the various branches of Government Services and Lands around this Island, a lot of the employees are wearing shirts. There are promotions for Public Service Week and all sorts of things. I do not remember all of it, because I did not pay much attention to it when the things were ordered. Members of the staff, the Deputy Minister, or whoever, would come in looking for those sorts of things and say: Is it okay to get this, we need it? So be it!

Listen and learn something. It is very, very important that you learn something. You just come around and start slapping your lips together saying untruths and casting aspersions about somebody else's character. I have no shirts, only what I bought myself and what I am wearing. Stop the untruths, I say to the member. I have to say this, Mr. Speaker. He spent all last winter getting up with this kind of stuff and the Premier would turn around with two thumbs up to him: what a man for bringing up dirt and mud. Do you know what? Last November it was not his thumbs the Premier stuck up to him, it was another digit on his hand, because he certainly did not get in Cabinet.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Again I refer to my previous commentary on the point of order, and I would ask the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's if he would refrain from continuing with the same line, because it will only lead to more disruptions in the House. I will give a ruling on this particular point of order on the next sitting day.

MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order from the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think it is important to point out, and I would like to point it out, that a point of order, when raised in the House, is not meant to provide a forum or an opportunity for a member to debate, whether it be on the Opposition side or on the government side.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: A point or order is raised primarily because of the significance, where there has been some breach of a parliamentary rule, or, in this case, some breach of the Standing Orders of this House by which we operate. Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that and point it out to all members, I guess, but in particular to the point that was just made.

The member opposite will have an opportunity, he has an opportunity and has a right, as a member in this House, to speak on matters, but in terms of raising a point of order, it must, Mr. Speaker, be legitimate, it must be bonafide and it must point to some parliamentary breach.

Mr. Speaker, I ask your advice, and, at some point, if you can advise all members on that point.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, very much.

Resuming debate, the hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Certainly, I await your ruling, but I am only bringing forward, Mr. Speaker, concerns I have, because all day today we have seen members opposite getting up and talking about the things they would like to see us do as a government, and we certainly would. A lot of those issues, as it deals with students, as it deals with health care, as it deals with any part of education, we on this side of the House would like to be able to do that too.

Then, to have the former Premier get on his feet and say that things were not out of control, I just want to highlight a couple of issues, Mr. Speaker, that came to my attention, which I felt clearly showed a government that was out of control, clearly showed a misuse of funds, and clearly showed the reason we are in the mess that we are in today. That is why I wanted to put forward those concerns.

Mr. Speaker, when we look over across the House, we have several members on that side of the House who were in a government position, who were in a minister's position, and if they think we are going to sit down here, over the next couple of months as we debate this issue and other issues, and not bring forward and not talk about - as the former Premier wanted to do today during Questions, with answers from the Premier. They don't want us to talk about the past fourteen or fifteen years. I intend, as a member, to talk about them, because the people out in the Province are talking about them, wondering why we are facing close to a $1 billion debt this year alone. That is what the people out in the Province are talking about, and why we may have to rearrange services in this Province and make some changes that need to be made, in order to bring it to a level that we all can all deal with, Mr. Speaker. That is why we are in this House of Assembly, and that is why I intend to bring forward information that I have, and any other member can feel free to stand on their feet and do so. If I think, personally, that there is a misuse of funds, I will bring it forward in this House and I will continue to do so.

We are not only talking about the Member for Harbour Main-Carbonear. There are other members on that side of the House, who we asked about their budgets when they were in the minister's department, who have concerns, such as the former Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development, when, in her capacity of Minister for Industry, Trade and Rural Development, $1,600 - $6,000 in expenses were racked up on framing pictures. We ask ourselves, why we are in the mess we are in today. It is because of that type of expenditure, Mr. Speaker, that we are in the mess we are in today.

I heard the former Minister of Education on his feet, today, talking about misuse, Mr. Speaker, and what we should be doing for the students of this Province and what we should be doing for the people of the Province, and I agree we should be at it and we should continue to do it. Then, I have to ask him, why he would spend in excess of $500 for a portrait sitting fee, film and proof, for the last couple of weeks he was the Minister of Education; and the list goes on and on and on, I say, Mr. Speaker. That is why we are standing here today trying to do something for the students of this Province, trying to realign how they get a student loan, realign how they pay back that student loan, and try to wipe out any frustration that the student loan causes, not only to the student, Mr. Speaker, but, indeed, to the parents.

Representing a rural district, I fully understand, and have listened over the past ten years to frustrated parents who have the added cost of travel, accommodations, and other expenses that come to a rural student that are not necessarily involved with a student who lives in an urban area, who can live home, who can go back and forth, Mr. Speaker, to their home each and every day as they attend university or the College of the North Atlantic or some private college. We have a difference. There should be, in my view, a different way of looking at a rural student versus looking at an urban student, for the simple reason of the added costs incurred.

Mr. Speaker, in my own area, and we are within a couple of hours driving distance of St. John's - take for example, people who live on the West Coast, people who live on the Northern Peninsula, people who live in the big land called Labrador, the extra expenses to them to attend school in Corner Brook or St. John's. Therefore, the situation we -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: We, as a government, Mr. Speaker, have to look at ways of improving that, we have to look at ways of streamlining that, and we have to look at ways that make it easier.

I have heard countless stories of how collection agencies are tormenting former students and students at their place of work, at their homes, and that shouldn't be. I had a young lady call me last year, who was being chastised every day at her work. They were calling her two and three times a day at her place of work and it was causing her major problems. We have to be able to address that, we have to be able to have a level playing field where students have access to loans that they require but they also have to have the ability to pay them back. That is what this government is about, Mr. Speaker, creating the opportunities in this Province that will allow students to be able to pay back their student debts, that will allow students to be able to take it on the chin when it comes to paying their bills. The only way they can do that is to create employment opportunities for them. That is what this government is all about, Mr. Speaker, and that is what we intend to do over the next number of years.

Mr. Speaker, if the members opposite get upset because we are trying to do that, they are going to have to live with that. That, Mr. Speaker, is what the people of this Province, that is what the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, wanted on October 21 of last year. They wanted a government to look at creating those opportunities so students here, number one, would have the opportunity to go to work, and be able to create an economy in this Province where people would be able to contribute to society in whatever way they can. We look forward to doing that, as the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will just say a few words. This will be the last speaker for this side concerning this particular Bill 1, on second reading.

We have heard a lot of comments here today in terms of the purpose behind, or the motivations for having Bill 1, and in particular, I guess, the clause in Bill 1 concerning the date of enforcement and commencement being section 19.

The bottom line is: Yes, it was an initiative of the former Administration. Call it an initiative if you will, but the bottom line was, whoever was there, somebody had to move forward with this issue because the banks had decided that we were not going to be in the student loan business any more. I do not know if anyone can claim favour or privilege for having taken on an initiative that, no matter who you were, you had to proceed with it anyway. I think we can move past that, anybody trying to claim credit here. I do not think either side in this House are putting themselves forward as martyrs for students, because we all here have a very central concern for students. We all were, probably, at one time, and we all probably have kids who are students at this time, and certainly will, in the future, have grandchildren who will be students. Let's not put ourselves on pedestals we do not belong upon. We are here for certain purposes.

We have heard, for example, that this was justification for the Gourley report and so on. We can get into that. I take it for what it is, and for what the minister said it is. We needed to have a corporation that is going to deal with student loans, administer them, because the banks are not going to do it any more. The minister quite clearly outlined what that was today, but that does not take away from the Opposition's right at this stage to ask questions, to outline what we feel about it in principle, show some concerns, highlight some concerns if we have them, legitimate concerns, and hopefully, by the time we get to the next stage, the minister, whomever, on the other side, can educate us a bit for those things that we do not understand, because I am sure there is information that the government has that we do not have. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, to be educated and informed, because we all ought to leave here having made the best decisions that we could. You cannot do that if you have not allowed each other to ask the necessary questions.

I do not think, like the Member for Baie Verte, it is a case of, if you do not want to deal with it you ask questions, you are not showing leadership or anything. I do not think that is an issue here. The question is, some people have legitimate questions and they are totally within their rights to ask those questions.

For example, I have a question. By the way, I have no difficulty with the principle of this bill whatsoever. I guess we can say: What is the point in having a concern with it? We have to have it anyway, so move on from there; but there are some questions that I have that I do not have the answers to, that fall within that principle ambit, that I would like to spark some discussion about and have some information provided. I am sure the minister can help me in that regard when the time is appropriate, in Committee stage.

One of those issues is the legal reasons. Section 19, Commencement, talks about March 30. I understand that it is being put forward that we need section 19, the commencement date, to be March 30 because there is some legal reason. Now, I do not know the legal reason why this has to be done on March 30 verses April 1 or April 2, and I am sure when we get to Committee stage the minister, or the Minister of Justice, will educate us as to why legally. Forgetting about political agendas or, as the Leader of the NDP used, his words: This was a fabrication for political purposes. I am more concerned about: What are the legal reasons? If you cannot stand up and tell me what the legal reasons are for why you need this on one day verses another, well, you cannot answer it. That is fine, too, if you cannot. We will deal with that when the time comes. That is a good point, I think, to raise when we are discussing this point at this point right here, principle. I look forward to that type of answer when we get there.

We have had different sides here treating this as a great piece of legislation. It is the first piece of legislation for this government. I have no doubts whatsoever that this is not going to be the best piece of legislation that this government is going to bring forward, none whatsoever, because you are doing this because it has to be done again. So, don't sell yourself short and think this is going to be your mantra that you are going to hang your Administration on. I am sure it will not be. It might sell today in a debate but you will not want to sell it some time out. I am sure you are going to have better things that you will want to be promoting as being your major piece of legislation. So let's not kid ourselves.

Another question I have, for example, is the money trail. I understand there is going to be two-hundred-and-some-odd million dollars that is going to go into this newly formed corporation. I personally do not know, but I would like to know. I assume right now the bank, CIBC, has a bunch of liabilities. We are going to form this company over here and call it the Student Loan Corp, based on this bill, and we are going to transfer all of that or assign it from CIBC into that corporation. Now the government ends up from there on in being responsible for administering it. I would like to know some details of where does the $220 million fit in? Does that go into the corporation? When does it go into the corporation? Does the money have to be done before the thirty-first for some reason? Does the money go to CIBC and then into the corporation? That is the kind of answers I am going to want and ask when I get to second reading. I am sure the minister will be able to education me. There is nothing wrong with asking for that kind of information because we all ought to know because we are all going to go back to our districts and people are going to ask us questions about this. This is where we ought to spend our time taking the opportunities to learn those things.

Another question. I notice, for example, it says - we have a Corporations Act in this Province and it says in one of the sections of this bill, section 14, that the Corporations Act will not apply to this corporation. To me it is a very legitimate question. We are creating a corporation that we are saying in the same bill will not be governed by the Corporations Act. Now, if the Corporations Act is good enough to control and ought to control every other corporation in this Province, why are we not going to have the Corporations Act apply to the Student Loan Corporation? I would just like to be educated as to why that is the case.

For example, with all the scandals that are going on in the federal level now with different corporations and so on, and they are putting in due diligence provisions and securities commissions are making sure that the Corporations Act do apply. Why are we retrenching from that and saying it will not apply? That is the kind of questions I would like to get to and be informed about.

We have another question, for example, that the board of directors in this bill will consist of the Minister of Education, Deputy Minister of Education, Deputy Minister of Finance and Secretary of Treasury Board. A question that I would like to have answered, again, so that I am informed is: Where does the students have any input into this, or should they? We have three bureaucratic people who are going to administer the Student Loan Corporation. Where is it provided for anywhere to have any input from students what this is all about? Is there going to be a student director? Is there going to be someone from Memorial University Student Union and CONA, for example, student union who will sit on a board? Is there going to be an advisory committee? I personally think there ought to be some provision here so that that is looked after, because we can do as good as we would like to do in this corporation from an Administration point of view but we will never fully understand the needs of the students as well as the students. So, that is the kinds of things we ought to be looking at here as well.

Once we get through all of that difficulty about where the money is coming from and when it is coming from - the paper trail I call it - it is not going to change the fiscal situation of this Province. Whether we pay the money out on March 30 or April 1, the money is still there. We are still on the hook as a Province for spending it. It is just going to make a difference in a certain set of books that you read. It is either going to say that 2003-2004 had this money or 2004-2005 had this money spent. We will all do our political arguments, I am sure, for the next four years about what slight of hand went on here and whatever, and why the government might have done this, but that is only to take away from what we have to do anyway.

I believe the government should pass this bill. We know that the government can pass this bill, and we can stand here until the cows come home if we wish, and talk ourselves blue in the face, but the bottom line is: It needs to be done. It should be done, and it will be done. So we do not need, between ourselves, to have any heavy-handed tactics, or we are going to keep everybody up all night folks. We do not need that. We are both going to make our arguments but let's not, in the process of getting this done within the timelines that the government wants to get it done, let us not rush the judgement so quickly that we do not give the Opposition, or yourselves, an opportunity to make this bill better than what it currently is because that is what it is all about. We are going to do it, and we ought to do it, but there is nothing wrong with making sure that we do it right.

Thank you, and I look forward to getting some responses when we get to Committee stage on those questions that I raised.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: If the minister now speaks he will close debate.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank all members on both sides of the House for an interesting debate on Bill 1. As all of us agree, and I think all of us have acknowledged either directly or indirectly, it is an important piece of legislation because of ultimately what it does in the best interests of the post-secondary students of our Province. We have all said that, in varying degrees mind you, and with some commentary not necessarily totally supportive of that particular position at all times, but either directly or indirectly we have all, as members of this House, on both sides, essentially said the same thing. That is fundamentally important because, again, the winners in this are the students of Newfoundland and Labrador, the students who today are attending our post-secondary institutions or have graduated from our post-secondary institutions and are now in some form of repayment of their student debt. Ultimately, it is the students of this Province who have won.

We have accomplished a lot here today. I realize that this is day one of a new term, of a new session, of a new government, but we have accomplished a lot. I thank members on both sides for that, because we have essentially conducted second reading of a very significant and important piece of legislation, again on behalf of our post-secondary students of our Province. From that point of view, we have accomplished a lot today and I thank members on both sides.

With respect to the issues that have been raised by my colleague, the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile, he has raised some interesting questions and he is quite right when he says that ultimately that is the purpose of Committee of the Whole, and that is what we will be doing either tomorrow - Wednesday is Private Members' Day - or Thursday. We will engage in that debate. There will be questions asked, there will be answers provided, and we will engage in a debate to and fro on those particular points that have been raised by my colleague opposite. That again is the purpose of that.

As some members said earlier today, the purpose of discussion today was to discuss, in principle, what the benefits were, and it is pleasing to note, as I indicated earlier, that we all agree that this is for the students' benefit.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I thank all members. We look forward to, some day during the week, engaging in Committee discussion and having a greater discussion in detail of the various provisions of Bill 1. Again, I thank all member present for their contribution.

Mr. Speaker, I move second reading of this particular bill.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: It is the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a second time?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay.

Motion carried.

CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act." (Bill 1)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a second time. When shall this bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House?

AN HON. MEMBER: Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: On tomorrow.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House on tomorrow. (Bill 1)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to say thank you for second reading of Bill 1.

Mr. Speaker, I want to move the adjournment for this evening but, before I do, I listened intently to the Leader of the Opposition talk about how long we are going to sit and how drawn out it is going to be. In order not to offend his sensibilities, Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do now adjourn and return tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved that the House do now adjourn and return tomorrow at 1:30 of the clock.

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Contra-minded, nay.

Carried.

This House now stands adjourned until tomorrow, March 23, at 1:30 of the clock in the afternoon.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Tuesday, at 1:30 p.m.