The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today the House of Assembly would like to welcome a group of six Levels I, II and III students from Basque Memorial School of Red Bay in the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, a group of students that I had the pleasure of meeting just a few short months ago in their own school.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

Those students are accompanied by their teacher, Ms Elaine Halbot.

Again, welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The following members' statements will be heard: the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; the hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune; the hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile; the hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland; and the hon. the Member for the District of Baie Verte-Springdale.

The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to congratulate Amy Park, a fifteen-year-old native of Forteau, Labrador, and a student at Mountain Field Academy, on being selected the provincial finalist in the 2009 Canada Day Poster Challenge for Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, the Poster Challenge program was created in 1987 and encourages young Canadians to learn more about Canada, which makes them even more proud of their country and strengthens their sense of belonging. This year's theme "With Glowing Hearts" was depicted by Amy with an elegant and imaginative style and was selected from 1,300 entries from across the Province. The provincial finalist was chosen from among the four finalists in four different age categories. Amy will be among the thirteen provincial and territorial finalists who will go on to participate in the national Canada Day celebrations in Ottawa in June.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in congratulating Amy Park on winning the 2009 Canada Day Poster Challenge for Newfoundland and Labrador and also to extend congratulations to the other three provincial finalists.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS PERRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am honoured to rise in this great House today to recognize the talented young musicians of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune. Earlier this year, hundreds of students from the region participated in the Kiwanis Music Festival at Grand Falls-Windsor, with outstanding results.

Along with these fine young musicians, I must also thank their music teachers: Ms Brenda Jeddore of Conne River, Ms Valerie Coombs of Bay d'Espoir, Mr. Max Pike of Harbour Breton, and Ms Crystal Andrews of English Harbour West. Without them, our children could not benefit from the joys of learning music, and we are very grateful for all you do for our children and our communities.

I would also to thank the parents for their commitment as well. Ever since I was in elementary school, when the Kiwanis Festival came about, our parents packed us up and sacrificed their hard-earned dollars so that we could stay in Central Newfoundland all week; and, often, many of them came with us. This is quite a commitment, but our parents recognized the value that such an experience has for their children.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me and congratulate the students and teachers of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune for a job well done.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize and congratulate St. James' Regional High School Band on becoming the recipients of the Gold Standard of Performance Award for their performance at MusicFest Canada, held at Toronto on May 13 of this year.

MusicFest Canada is a national competition for high school concert bands, orchestras, jazz bands and choral groups. The event is by invitation only, and the band earned the invitation while performing at the Atlantic Band Festival in Halifax last year. They were the only concert band from Newfoundland and Labrador, and were playing in the same lineup as much larger bands from schools across Canada.

The fifteen-member band was directed by Dr. Ann Marie Lane, who was hired in 2006 to build a music program at St. James' Regional High in Port aux Basques. When Dr. Lane arrived at the school there was not even a designated music room and the school had two out-of-tune pianos, some broken drums and a few interested high school students. In 2007, Dr. Lane was given permission to purchase twenty instruments and start a school band. It is amazing what she and her students have accomplished in this short period of time.

At Musicfest Canada, St. James' High School Band performed a version of Danny Boy – I am sure our Premier would be proud – which was adapted specifically for their instrumentation; When the Stains Go Marching In and Declaration and Dance.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending congratulations to Dr. Ann Marie Lane and the St. James' Regional High School Band on receiving this prestigious Gold Standard of Performance Award.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Regina Mundi Cultural Committee of Renews on its Paddy Day weekend events held on March 14 and 15.

I, along with my colleague, the hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation attended the events on March 14. The event included a visual arts display including paintings, photography and a quilt display from local artists. It included a book launch by Eleanor McGrath entitled, A Story To Be Told, Personal Reflections on the Irish Immigration to Canada. Ms McGrath is from Toronto and married to an immigrant from Ireland and has recently purchased a summer home in Renews.

In addition, the event included a play by Mr. Frank Holden entitled, It's Like a Dream to Me, based on the life of Mr. Paddy McCarthy, a 105 year-old native of Renews, held at the Regina Mundi Complex as well. The play gives an overview of Mr. McCarthy's 100 years living in rural Newfoundland and Labrador and his life as a fisherman from the age of sixteen to eighty-two years of age.

Also included in the festivities were the Baltimore School Band and local musicians, singers and storytellers.

Mr. Speaker, rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and the Southern Shore in general, has an abundance of various forms of art developed over the past 500 years of history and events like these I described ensure these art forms are never lost.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank Mary Chidley, Chair of the Committee, and members of the Regina Mundi Cultural Organizing Committee, including Rita Chidley, Bev Kane, John Chidley, Mike Chidley, Josephine Kane, Sharon and Jackie Kane, for the tremendous job they did in organizing this event and ensuring all forms of our culture are celebrated and enjoyed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Baie Verte-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize and congratulate the Baie Verte Collegiate Drama Club, namely the Ranting Ravens, who is comprised of Grades 7 to 12 students from Coachman's Cove, Fleur de Lys, Baie Verte, Pacquet, and Wild Cove.

The Ranting Ravens Drama Club, directed by Mary Lou Stuckless and with assistance from Neil Kirby, performed at the regional festival at Grand Falls-Windsor on April 24, and at that time were selected to perform in the provincial showcase at the festival in Gander, on May 7-9. At the regional festival, three of the lead performers, Marquita Walsh, Sabrina Pinksen, and Rebecca Traverse were nominated for the best actor award, and with Marquita being given this honour. All three were nominated for and won outstanding acting awards at the provincial showcase.

The troupe was also awarded the best ensemble award at the regional festival, highlighting group cohesiveness, choral and choreography work, and creativity of the presentation.

I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in applauding the accomplishments of the Ranting Ravens, and wish them well in future performances.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS POTTLE: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House to inform my colleagues of a recent event I participated in while visiting the Miawpukek First Nation reserve in Conne River. As part of his Fight Against Drugs Campaign, Canadian boxing giant George Chuvalo spoke to students from St. Anne's All-Grade School and Bay d'Espoir Academy about his experience as a father in a family ravaged by drug abuse.

Mr. Chuvalo has an honoured place in sports history for never being knocked down while going toe-to-toe with some of boxing's finest, including the legendary Muhammad Ali. However, the exploits of this world-class athlete's battle in the ring pale in comparison with the tragic story of how his family was nearly destroyed by drug addiction. This great fighter told students in Conne River how he struggled outside the boxing ring, when heroin addiction claimed the lives of three of his sons and drove his wife to suicide.

Mr. Speaker, stopping the abuse of drugs is a challenge for all communities, and like most social problems, the best solutions often come from within the communities themselves. This is what the event was all about. Conne River, under the inspired leadership of Chief Misel Joe, is to be congratulated for bringing Mr. Chuvalo and his Fight Against Drugs Campaign to their community. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, through the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, is pleased to add its financial support in the effort to bring Mr. Chuvalo to Conne River and the Labrador communities of Hopedale and North West River to share his personal experience of the tragic consequences of drug abuse.

Mr. Speaker, we know that drug addiction is a problem for many communities, which is why this government supports efforts to tackle substance abuse on many fronts, including the Suicide and Detrimental Lifestyles Grant Program for Aboriginal people funded through my department.

The Miawpukek First Nation is a perfect example of a community that is taking control of its destiny and tackling difficult and complex social issues such as drug abuse. This is truly a model Aboriginal community, not just for Newfoundland and Labrador, but all of Canada, and beyond. The people of Conne River celebrate Mi'kmaq customs and traditions, their distinct culture and heritage, and inspire other Aboriginal communities to do the same. They do this while facing the very real challenges of twenty-first century life, head-on.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

Actually, it was just in the past week that I read the story of Mr. Chuvalo and his time in Newfoundland and Labrador, the work that he was doing in Conne River. I read it actually in The Coaster, and I was very impressed with it, in fact, to know that Chief Misel Joe and his team had the foresight to bring individuals like this into the community to talk about drug addictions, to talk about drug awareness and to leave messages, inspiring messages, with our youngest people in our communities today, and in our schools, so that they can have informed decisions and know the consequences of those decisions as they go through.

Mr. Speaker, his story was one that was emotional, it was heartfelt, and I guess it was filled with irony. When you have an individual like this who has been so successful, but yet be able to see that they have endured such hardship and such loss and such suffering in their lives, it is absolutely amazing and unbelievable.

Mr. Speaker, government themselves has a study, the Newfoundland and Labrador student drug study, which indicates that today 60 per cent of the students in Grades 7 to 9, and Levels I to Level III, have some involvement with substance use, either with alcohol, marijuana, tobacco or cocaine. We know that some are more commonly used than others, but I think that the report also shows that intervention, once directed at youth, has a positive impact. I would encourage the government to do more of this, have more of these people talking in our schools, in our reserves –

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to conclude her remarks.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I will - in our schools and in our reserves because they do leave a tremendous impact with young people. I have been witness to it myself in schools in my own district and I would like to see it part of a broader provincial campaign.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement, and I am very pleased to stand with her and congratulate Chief Misel Joe and Mr. Chuvalo for taking the initiative to have this event happen in Conne River.

Last week I was quite honoured to participate in a gathering of elders with Chief Misel Joe as the person bringing us together, and concern was expressed with regard to the role of alcohol in the lives of people in their communities. This is something that they have not run away from, neither in Conne River nor in other Aboriginal communities in the Province. Everything that this government can do and we can do as individuals to stand with them as they fight this problem, the better it will be, but at the same time we also have to recognize that it is not just a problem for Aboriginal people. I would not want us in any way to - and I know the minister would agree with that, that we should take an example from them as a community in how they are dealing with the issue of alcoholism and drugs, and all that we can do in terms of helping fund programs or special events like the one of bringing in Mr. Chuvalo can only be for the betterment of their communities as well as our whole Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to congratulate Team Newfoundland and Labrador 2009 on bringing home seven medals from the fifteenth Annual Canadian Skills Competition which was held last week in Charlottetown, P.E.I.

Mr. Speaker, over 500 of the best and brightest high-school, post-secondary and apprenticeship students from every province and territory competed in forty competitions for the honour of being named the best in the country. The Canadian Skills Competition is organized by Skills Canada to profile technology and trade careers.

Mr. Speaker, the provincial government is a proud supported of Skills Canada Newfoundland and Labrador and of the Canadian Skills Competition. The Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment provides a financial contribution to Skills Canada Newfoundland and Labrador programming, including the Annual Intermediate Skills Challenge, Provincial Skilled Career Day, National Skilled Trades Week activities, partnership activities, in-school and community presentations and other programming aimed at increasing excellence in skills development.

In addition, the Department of Education provides a contribution to Skills Canada Newfoundland and Labrador to offer Skills Work for Women Conferences, which promote skilled trades and technologies to young women as first choice career options. As well, the department provides $15,000 in travel grants to students from off the Avalon to attend the provincial competitions.

The Department of Education also partners with Skills Canada Newfoundland and Labrador and the Career Planning Centre to deliver the Teacher Ambassador Program, offering teachers an opportunity to job shadow and learn about careers in skilled trades and technology and bring that knowledge into the system through the sharing of developed curriculum.

I would now like to take a moment to announce our award winners from this year's Canadian Skills Competition. Bronze award winners were Donald Bradley, Jason Garland and Sarah Norris. Silver awards went to Jessica McErlean, Hannah Green and Michel Hopkins; and I am pleased to announce, Mr. Speaker, that Andrew Power of CBS was the recipient of a gold medal award. A College of the North Atlantic Student, Andrew was awarded the Best of Region Award, which goes to the competitor with the highest marks in the Province.

I know I speak for my hon. colleague, the Minister of Education, and indeed for all members of this hon. House, when I offer each award winner congratulations on a job well done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement, and to say that this Canadian Skills Competition is truly a great competition, knowing that our students from this Province went to compete against some 500 others throughout our country.

Mr. Speaker, I know how important this particular competition is, because it was only three or four years ago that a young gentleman from my constituency went out to the western part of our country, won the gold medal, and when he came back home, before he finished Grade 11, he had three small businesses himself started in the area. In one of them, he had three or four other people hired on with him. It is a tremendous competition. No doubt about it, it is a development of the skills of our young people.

We in the Official Opposition want to congratulate Donald, Jason, Sarah, Jessica, Hannah, Michel and Andrew on winning the bronze, silver and gold competitions and bringing them back to our Province. We want to wish each and every one of them, and all those who took part, who were not winners, every success in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement.

I am quite pleased to receive this report from the minister, on the support given to our provincial team to participate in the Annual Skills Canada Competition, and I am really pleased to join with her in congratulating the medal winners from our provincial team.

The activities of Skills Canada over the past fifteen years, I think, have really been important for increasing the interest in skilled trades and technology in Newfoundland and Labrador, and encouraging young people, and now women as well; they have taken that on as a career.

I understand from the skilled trades task force update forum that was held last week, that the Teacher Ambassador Program now has, I think, over thirty teachers job shadowing with trades people in order to give their students the first-hand information about working in the trades. This is a program that I know the department is going to be expanding, and I think when we can have that program everywhere in the Province it will be wonderful.

I also understand from the forum that there were some really good ideas and suggestions for how to get young people into trades. One of them was an idea that is being carried on, I think, in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario, of having mobile units go into rural parts of the Province to do block training in trades and technology.

Such mobile units could especially be important for women who have responsibilities, family responsibilities; as, as they go on with their training, sometimes they stop because of not being able to go to college campuses. So it is an idea I ask the minister to learn more about and look at.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

Oral Questions.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, due to a fire at the building housing the Office of the Chief Information Officer, government computing services went off-line, and we know that an essential element of emergency planning is a Business Continuity Plan, or BCP. Under a BCP, government would be able to continue internal and external operations and services.

I ask the government today: What is the state of the business continuity planning within government, and who is responsible for it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that what happened yesterday is that there was an electrical malfunction in the electrical substation at the OCIO building on Higgins Line. This not only caused a power disruption, but the backup power system was disrupted by this electrical problem.

In essence, Mr. Speaker, what happened was, the backup system was also affected; however, the backup continuity plans that are in place in each department were then in force. Everything was started to be brought back on-line within a short period of time, and it is my understanding that within four to six hours everything started to get back up at full speed.

There is no question that something like what happened yesterday is of concern, but it was dealt with. Each department has a backup continuity plan. I think even, for example, in HRLE there was the manual writing of cheques.

Everything, Mr. Speaker, went as it should and the backup continuity plans were certainly put in place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe the minister could tell us, then, when we can expect a complete report on what happened, why there was an electrical occurrence there, and why some of the backup plans did not work in certain cases, such as being able to continue to access government computers, the Prescription Drug Program, Income Support services, and things of this nature.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Office of the Chief Information Officer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Over the last period of years the OCIO has done, I would suggest, absolutely wonderful work. In the period of time that the OCIO has been in place, the Chief Information Officer Peter Shea and his people have certainly addressed many issues that were lacking in government, such as information technology and information management.

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding, over a period of time, the budget has increased since 2005 from $33.5 million to $70.2 million in 2008-2009. The office deals with issues such as backup continuity plans and addresses issues such as were raised in the Auditor General's report this year.

It is currently being investigated fully, and hopefully we will be in a position in the very near future to know exactly what took place, how we can prevent it from happening in the future, and how to address situations that arise.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a system that was created by the government opposite, and I am glad the minister mentioned that the revenue invested in it has increased by over 50 per cent in the last number of years. When you have that much money being spent, I would think you should have a stable and reliable service.

I ask the minister today if government is prepared - in light of the fact that there have been millions and millions of dollars invested already - to initiate a review of the government's computing strategy with respect to OCIO and to see if it is a stable solution for us in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Office of the Chief Information Officer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr .Speaker.

The first point I would make is that, contrary to any suggestion by the Leader of the Opposition, it is certainly a very stable system operating here under the OCIO. What we had yesterday was a situation arising, and connecting switches made inoperable. At that point, then - contrary to what I said a few minutes ago, it not a backup plan - there are Business Continuity Plans that are put in place. They are put in place of priority. Then, as the system goes down, it is brought back on-line in terms of these priorities. What we have is - for example, the government e-mail was down - it starts to come back, as we all saw yesterday.

We have HRLE. We have the more critical services which, in terms of the Business Continuity Plan, are brought back on-line. The Prescription Drug Program is one of them, and support services under the Department of Justice. The Business Continuity Plans are executed in terms of the order of being most critical, and that is what took place yesterday.

We will continue to investigate. We will try to find out exactly what occurred, and how to prevent this in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Goose Bay air base has two runways that can be used by fighter jets. The selection of which runway a jet lands on is determined by the direction of the wind. It was recently brought to our attention that one of these aircraft arresting systems servicing runway 1634 in Goose Bay will be removed by the Department of National Defence.

I ask the minister today: Have you been made aware of this decision, and has any representation been made to the federal minister in an attempt to reverse this action?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not aware that we have been contacted by the military or Transport Canada or anyone else as to any change in status at the Goose Bay Airfield, but I will endeavour to find out what the status of it is, after Question Period, and report back to the House if we have been contacted.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is an issue that has been ongoing for several months, I say to the minister, locally. Right now there are currently no fighter jets that operate out of Goose Bay, but we do know that the air base there has the potential, with the appropriate level of promotion by the federal government, to reinforce, or enforce again, its allied forces. Mr. Speaker, removing the aircraft arresting system, which we understand now will be moved to Trenton, will certainly impact their ability to market that runway for future flight activity.

I ask the minister if the Province will be conducting any analysis as to what the removal of this system will mean to the local economy and to getting training flights back in operation in Goose Bay.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Any time anyone takes any infrastructure out of Goose Bay it is a very important thing for us, and we want to hold the feet to the fire of the federal government to make sure they live up to the commitment of 5 Wing Goose Bay. If they are going to take any infrastructure that impacts on the military flights and training up in Goose Bay we are certainly going to make ourselves make that known to the federal government.

As of yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I wrote a letter to Minister MacKay explaining the situation there and asked him to verify that. If he comes back to verify that they are taking any infrastructure out of that, then they will hear back from this government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have also been told by the Department of National Defence officials that should the equipment be required in the future they would consider reinstating it. But, Mr. Speaker, we all know that if you are trying to promote an airbase to allied forces that they are more inclined to look at that as a potential place of operation if the proper equipment is there and operational.

I have to ask the minister: Are there any kind of meetings that you are looking at scheduling? Have you been in contact with the local community in Goose Bay? Has this incident been reported to you in a manner in which you should have, and could have dealt with as the minister responsible?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have had a number of conversations with the Minister of Labrador Aboriginal Affairs and basically, both of us are on the same page. Also, the council up there are well aware of it. What has happened up there, Mr. Speaker, there is speculation up there that this is what is going to happen, that the federal government are going to relocate that (inaudible). Speculation, we have not verified it yet.

The letter that I sent off to Minister MacKay will verify that. Once I know that, then we can talk exactly what we are talking about here. The other issue is that I have also instructed my officials to contact Minister MacKay's office to set up a meeting to discuss this very issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Obviously, another issue that the Province is not engaged in and could mean the demise of another economic structure in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: In light of what is happening have there been any discussions recently at all with the federal government as to what the future operations will be at Goose Bay or is this just another way where they can look at pulling services out all together?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, I am dumbfounded how one person would twist the words that I have just said. Really!

Mr. Speaker, anything and all things that affect 5 Wing Goose Bay this government is committed to, and we want to hold the feet to the fire of the federal government of their commitment. Anything that happens, we will make sure that they live up to their promise, or their commitment.

Mr. Speaker, I have instructed my staff to go back to Minister MacKay to look for a meeting ASAP to discuss this very issue because anything of infrastructure taken out of Goose Bay will devaluate the valuable possession that they have up in Goose Bay.

And by the way, Minister Hickey, the Minister of Labrador Affairs, is there now.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last year I asked the Minister of Health if there were plans to implement an applied behaviour analysis, an ABA program for autistic children over the age of six. At that time the minister responded that him and the Minister of Education would sit down, they would have a discussion around the ABA program, the supports that were provided to autism both in the education system and in health and community services.

I ask the minister, that was a year ago: Did you ever have those discussions with your colleague and if so, was any progress made to help autistic children?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Yes, I did have such a discussion and there has been much progress, Mr. Speaker, and I am certain my colleague, the Minister of Education, would be able to elaborate as well on some of the things we have done with children with autism.

Later today in debate, it is going to be the subject of a private member's resolution and I am certain that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador will get an opportunity to see first-hand a number of the things that we have been doing to support children and their families who are living with autism.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With complaints from the parents of autistic children who say that school officials are not properly trained to meet their children's needs, I ask the minister today: Has there been any new training programs established for officials so that the needs of autistic children can be met in our education system?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the member opposite for her question. It is certainly a very important topic, and as my colleague has just alluded to a few moments ago, one that we are going to have a great amount of time later this afternoon to debate and discuss.

I will say to the member opposite, if she is interested in listening to me give her an answer for a moment, we are certainly indeed working with the Autism Society and school districts. We have committed a significant amount of money over the last twelve months in particular towards teacher professional development along with a number of other initiatives that are supported by parents and the Autism Society in the Province to support ongoing initiatives in the K-12 sector.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the minister indicated, we will be debating a private member's motion today on existing autistic services for children.

I ask the minister: With the increasing number of children diagnosed with autism in our Province each year, does the minister intend on extending the ABA program to children beyond the age of six?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, I am certain, based on the fact that they would have consulted before the private member's motion today, that the member opposite would know that there is not unanimous agreement that the ABA is the absolute, best alternative for students in the K-12 system. So, no, I am not committing to that here today right now but I will talk a bit more a little later this afternoon about a number of services that we are committed to.

I will say to the member opposite, that we are engaged with parents and with the Autism Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I will say to the member opposite that not every one of those people in those organizations are committed to ABA for K-12. There are alternatives that work much better for students from each end of the autistic spectrum.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, in February we wrote to the Eastern School District regarding concerns that were expressed to us by parents of students at Frank Roberts Junior High School in Conception Bay South. The school had been closed last year due to poor air quality control and mould and the parents who contacted our office say that some of the problems had not been adequately addressed when the school reopened. The Eastern School District responded to our letter saying that everything was fine. Well, Mr. Speaker, it turns out that everything was not fine. Yesterday it was announced the school would close again due to poor air quality and mould.

I ask the minister: Why were the concerns of parents not addressed in January and February when these concerns were first brought to government's attention?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: In the absence of someone from Eastern School District, Mr. Speaker, I will try and provide an answer. I believe the question is directed towards the Eastern School District, in the meantime. We do not speak for the district. I can only say that I am fully aware of the incident at Frank Roberts. We have been briefed in the very recent past. The incident that occurred with the previous closure of the school was addressed. There was total air quality testing done and as the member opposite would know, he has been advocating regularly in the House for air quality testing -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There are important questions being asked and important answers being provided.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I was saying, the member opposite is well aware because he has advocated on any number of occasions for air quality testing as the way to determine whether schools are, in fact, safe to be occupied or not.

I say, Mr. Speaker, that test was done when the school was closed before, along with a number of other testing procedures, and the tests came back in fact to show that the school was safe to go back into. The incident that has occurred very recently, Mr. Speaker, is unrelated to the previous incident.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: I have to agree with the minister, Mr. Speaker. The incident that I am referring to now is definitely not related to the first one, because this is in a totally different area of that same school.

Mr. Speaker, while the school was reopened in January, work continued on the facility to address some of the ongoing air quality problems. According to parents, this most recent case of mould has been found in several new areas of the school, nowhere near the original issue. As well, this mould is apparently on the inner walls of the school.

I ask the minister: How is it that this building could have been inspected, undergone mould abatement, and students put back in this facility, when clearly there were still mould issues in that particular facility?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: I think we should establish for the record that I am not an engineer and I am not qualified to provide an answer to the question posed, but I can certainly provide a summary of the briefing that we have been provided.

I can say to the House, Mr. Speaker, that I have asked the school board to provide a full media briefing, and I understand that as we speak here today that briefing is being provided. I do not know the full contents of it, but I can say to you that the recent incident was a result of contractor error in some work that was being performed over the Easter break. As a result of the damage by the contractor, water infiltrated the building and mould grew.

There were a number of other issues, as I understand it, around communication between the board and the parents and the public, that the Opposition may want to take up with the school district, but I have instructed the school district, prior to coming to the House, to disclose fully any and all information relative to that particular school and what is happening in the last couple of weeks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, the issue that I reference today has nothing to do with the work that was being done by the contractor. It is in a totally different area of the school. He is referencing a ceiling problem where the water came down. That is not the issue; it is in a totally different area of the school, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, several days ago I asked questions regarding closure of a school in Lamaline due to the discovery of mould. There is a long list of schools that have been closed due to poor air quality, over the past couple of years, and in the middle of the school year again we have Frank Roberts Junior High, for the second time in the school year. I understand fully that the minister is not an engineer, but I can tell you the Department of Education has some control over the school boards.

I ask the minister: Will you finally admit that mandatory air quality inspections in all schools are required to identify problems, or are we willing to go through the entire process again this year, throwing more students and parents into chaos because you refuse to be proactive?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It continues to be a challenge in the House to respond to questions and statements that are not based entirely on factual information, Mr. Speaker. It was only yesterday that there was an insinuation – or two days ago – by a member opposite that this government and my office were somewhat negligent, for lack of a better word, in the disposition of school property in Grand Falls-Windsor.

I say to you, Mr. Speaker, according to the letter in front of me here, it was a Liberal Minister of Education who dealt with that issue back in May 2000.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: To the issue at hand, I say to the member opposite, I did not cause the problem, no more than I did not decide from 1997 to 2003 to put $5.5 million into school maintenance and construction, but our government did decide to put $121.5 million in this year, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: And, I say, Mr. Speaker -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

They might have put $125 million in, but I can tell you the safety of our children in the schools is not being protected in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, in October of last year the provincial government announced a transfer of a shrimp licence from St. Joseph's to La Scie. The reasons given for the transfer were to provide adjacency to the resource, reduce trucking of product, and improve end quality. It is our understanding that no production has taken place. I am wondering if the minister would confirm this, if this is the case, and if so why?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Very simply, that was over two years that was to happen. We are into the first year now. I think it is 2010. I am looking at my hon. colleague here. Obviously, we are giving the proponent the opportunity to carry out what he promised to do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, before a transfer takes place, I guess upgrades and improvements have to happen with the plant in La Scie.

I ask the minister: Are you aware of any upgrades that the company has completed in preparation for this transfer?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Again, Mr. Speaker, we put it into the proponent's hands to carry out the work that is required in order to take care of that particular transfer. I assume that he is in the middle of it.

Again, with regard to details, I guess I would have to check with the proponent. Again, it is up to that individual to carry out the work that is required.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, it has been reported that shrimp from the Northern Peninsula, and in particular the communities of Port au Choix, Black Duck Cove and Anchor Point, will be shipped to St. Joseph's.

I ask the minister: Is that the case and what will this mean for the workers in those communities?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I do not deal with speculation, what if and what happens. Obviously, it is up to the processing part of the business to carry out their business. In this particular case I have not had any reports, so I will just leave that to speculation and leave it at that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The wait-list for MRI services in the St. John's area is roughly a year. In fact, through discussions with the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Radiologists, they have clearly stated that St. John's is in need of a third MRI immediately. We know that it takes about two years of planning, infrastructure, and preparation and training before a new unit can be functional.

I ask the minister: Is government planning to install or allocate funds for a new MRI machine for St. John's in the near future?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, this year we are spending some $50 million on equipment for our health facilities in this Province. Last year it was $50 million. The year before that it was $40-odd million. Mr. Speaker, in the last three years we have spent close to $200 million in putting new equipment in hospitals. We have had about seven new CT scanners and we have had about a dozen mammography units, for example, so we have had a significant infusion of new money in providing new, advanced technology in the area of diagnostic imaging.

As always, Mr. Speaker, that money reflects our forward thinking. As always, we are always looking at what the needs of the future will be, whether it is MRI services or other diagnostic tools that our health facilities need.

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question, yes, we are always planning, we are always looking at the future, we are always assessing our future needs and, as always, as in the past three or four years, we will respond to future needs as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In December 2005 the Health Ministers across Canada agreed to benchmarks for medical wait times in five areas, one of which was diagnostic imaging. Mr. Speaker, Newfoundland and Labrador have failed to report in this area since 2006.

I ask the minister: Why have our Province not reported in this area with regard to waitlists for diagnostic testing, and when can we expect these numbers to be reported and released to the public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, five areas that have been agreed to that we will benchmark. We have been reporting on those on a quarterly basis and we will continue to do that. To make jurisdictional comparisons around the country, all provinces need to agree to measure their wait times and to be able to report those. So all of those areas, which in fact all provinces have agreed to measure and report their benchmark times, and we, in fact, are doing that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I understand today that finally the not-for-profit and private ambulance operators are having a meeting with government, having now been without a contract since April, 2008, and many delays in setting this meeting up, and I am glad that this meeting did not get cancelled.

However, Mr. Speaker, last year the government started to roll out its provincial medical oversight program, which requires that all paramedics and ambulance operators throughout the Province have the same training, but the budget did not provide any specific new training for this program.

I ask the Minister of Health and Community Services: Where will the money come from for this training, since we know that the community ambulance operators are running on a shoestring as it is?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I am delighted the member opposite has mentioned our medical oversight program. That is a significant program, Mr. Speaker, all with a view of enhancing the quality of care we provide to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, all with a view of ensuring that the first responders to an emergency are appropriately and adequately trained.

With respect to whole issues of compensation, and she also acknowledged that negotiations are taking place as we speak, this is the second time that they have been at a table to negotiate issues around compensation, remuneration and the flow of money from government to these operators. I say, Mr. Speaker, issues of financial cost, issues of remuneration, issues of what the contract value would be, that is what negotiations are all about.

I say, Mr. Speaker, as we speak, there is a team of people at a table negotiating what would be a reasonable compensation for the services provided by all our community operators, together with our private operators. At the outcome of the negotiations, when they are concluded, we will all know, as a Province, exactly what money was on the table.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I did ask a very specific question of the minister. I have heard from some paramedics who are telling me that they are being asked to take a leave of absence, pay for their own training, and then come back to work for salaries that are at the lowest end of the scale in the Province.

Is there going to be specific money for those who are in the community-based ambulances, the paramedics to get their training?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will see if I can be a little more clearer for the member opposite. Community operators, together with private operators, sit down with government periodically to negotiate a contract. We then provide financial remuneration to those people who provide a service. They in turn hire employees. The employees have an employer-employee relationship with the people they work for. So I say, Mr. Speaker, with respect to the amount of money we pay the operators, that is what the negotiation is about today as we speak.

The relationship individuals have with their employers, the employee-employer relationship, we are not in the middle of that, Mr. Speaker. So issues around how people work for their employer, the nature of that relationship, who pays for what training and about time off and their scheduling, these are operational issues that the operators themselves deal with. We as a government are responsible for compensating the operators fairly for the work that they do and the service they provide.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are losing our rural paramedics to other provinces because they are not receiving the same wages as the public sector ambulance operators. However, they are dealing with the same level of trauma, the same serious illnesses, the same people who are vulnerable in emergency situations, and they have to have the same training.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Why aren't all of our EMS services coming under a totally public system so that everyone gets paid and trained the same and that the same quality of care is provided to everyone in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, ambulance services in this Province is publicly funded. As I have tried to explain to the member opposite, we have a - and I have said many times in this House, Mr. Speaker, is that some of our ambulance services are based out of a hospital, some more of them are operated by community-based organizations and some more of them are operated by private operators, I say, Mr. Speaker.

With the private operators and the community operators, as we speak today, and she has already acknowledged, they are at a table negotiating an agreement, negotiating an arrangement for financial compensation for a valuable service that they provide. In the very near future, I suspect they will conclude a negotiation. They will have an arrangement that will be satisfactory to the operators and they will continue to provide quality, valuable service to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allotted for questions and answers have expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motions.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, the following resolution:

WHEREAS pursuant to subsection 3(1) of the Citizens' Representative Act and following a resolution of the House of Assembly on December 13, 2001, the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, by Order in Council dated December 14, 2001, appointed Mr. Fraser March to serve as the Citizens' Representative commencing on February 1, 2002; and

WHEREAS the Auditor General in his Report on Reviews of Departments and Crown Agencies for the year ending March 31, 2004, as submitted to the Speaker on January 26, 2005, identified a number of concerns relating to the operations of the Office of the Citizens' Representative; and

WHEREAS the said Auditor General's Report contained the written response of the Citizens' Representative with respect to the identified concerns; and

WHEREAS the Internal Economy Commission of the House of Assembly conducted a review of the concerns raised by the Auditor General, hired an independent legal consultant to advise the Internal Economy Commission respecting those concerns and offered Mr. March himself, or through his solicitor, four opportunities to present his case before the Commission, which he declined; and

WHEREAS on June 29, 2005, the Internal Economy Commission directed the Speaker to recommend to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council that pursuant to subsection 7(1) of the Citizens' Representative Act the Citizens' Representative be suspended; and

WHEREAS on August 30, 2005 the Lieutenant-Governor in Council temporarily suspended, with pay, the Citizens' Representative from his duties, pursuant to section 7 of the Citizens' Representative Act; and

WHEREAS on December 12, 2005, the House of Assembly, by a majority vote of its members passed a resolution that Mr. March be removed from the Office of Citizens' Representative; and

WHEREAS following the said resolution the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, under section 6 of the Citizens' Representative Act, issued an Order in Council removing Mr. March from the Office of the Citizens' Representative effective December 12, 2005; and

WHEREAS on April 6, 2007, Justice David Orsborn of the Supreme Court Trial Division dismissed an application by Mr. Fraser March and concluded that the resolution and the manner in which it was debated by the House of Assembly was immune from judicial review due to parliamentary privilege; and

WHEREAS Mr. March has requested that there be an independent review of the circumstances surrounding his removal; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Justice, on January 22, 2009 announced that he had asked the Government House Leader to request that the Management Commission of the House of Assembly endorse the introduction of a resolution during the next session of the House of Assembly, to conduct an independent review of the case of the former Citizens' Representative, Mr. Fraser March; and

WHERAS on May 13, 2009, a majority of the House of Assembly Management Commission members resolved that the Commission endorse a resolution in the House of Assembly to appoint a retired Supreme Court Justice to conduct an independent and impartial review into the circumstances of Fraser March's removal from office, which review will include the opportunity for Fraser March to be heard;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly Management Commission select a retired Supreme Court Justice who shall be appointed to conduct the review of the actions of Mr. Fraser March that led to his removal from the Office of the Citizens' Representative; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the terms of reference for the said review shall be as follows:

1. The retired Justice is authorized to undertake an independent review and evaluation of the actions of Mr. Fraser March with respect to the decision to remove him from the Office of the Citizens' Representative.

2. The review shall include the opportunity for Mr. March to be heard by the retired Justice.

3. The retired Justice is authorized to produce an opinion as to whether or not there was sufficient cause to remove Mr. March from office.

4. The review shall be completed within two months, at which time the retired Justice shall issue a written report to the Speaker for distribution to Members of the House of Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member, on a point of order.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, during Question Period, the Minister of Education made reference to a certain document and cited it. He specifically mentioned, I do believe, 2002.

We would ask that, pursuant to the Rules of Parliamentary Procedure, and particularly I refer to Beauchesne's page 151, item 495 generally but specifically subsection (2), that the Minister of Education table the document that he referred to.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader, to the point of order.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education certainly alluded to a letter that he had in his possession, or he had reviewed, in relation to a decision that was made in 2002. If it is required by the House that the letter has to be tabled because of procedure here in the House of Assembly, we would certainly have no problem tabling that letter.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Is the commentary finished on the point of order?

The hon. the Opposition House Leader, to the point of order?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just for the record, Mr. Speaker, the minister was asked a question. The minister took it upon himself to reference a document that he had, a letter which he specifically said dealt with a situation that was raised in this House, and he gave a date; he said it was done in 2002.

Now, if the minister is going to cite and refer to a document, the rules are that he should be prepared to table it in this House. There is no requirement that he has to read from it. There is no requirement in the literature or in the rules that he has to read from it, Mr. Speaker. The requirement is that if he cites it, if he makes reference to it - and he waved it around in this House - he ought to be prepared to table it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair's understanding of the rule when it comes to ministers having to table a particular document or a piece of correspondence is that the minister has every right to refer to something but if the minister quotes from the particular document, that is the time that a minister has to table it.

The hon. member is shaking his head, that this is probably not correct, but that is the Chair's understanding. If the Chair needs to come back and make a further ruling on it then he will, but that is where the Chair stands with it right now.

Further tabling of documents.

Notices of motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

MR. SPEAKER: This being Private Members' Day, and it now being 3:00 o'clock, I now call on the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair and the Leader of the Opposition to debate her private member's resolution.

The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly pleased today to rise on behalf of children in our Province who suffer from autism and are going without the appropriate services that they should be getting beyond the age of six.

Mr. Speaker, for the record, I would like to read my private member's motion into the records of the House.

WHEREAS Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASDs) are lifelong neurological disorders that affect a person's development and how the brain processes information; and

WHEREAS ASD is the most common neurological disorder affecting children; and

WHEREAS Newfoundland and Labrador had a prevalence rate of 1 in 132 in 2008 and the rate is expected to be even higher for 2009; and

WHEREAS the number of people receiving a diagnosis of autism is on the increase in Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS evidence-based research shows that the lifelong cost of assisting a person with autism can be reduced if the child receives early diagnosis, effective treatment and adequate supports; and

WHEREAS all direct government programs for children with autism end after age six; and

WHEREAS schools do not have adequate resources and there is a demonstrated need for programs;

BE IT RESOLVED that government extend autism services offered for children below six years of age to all children.

Mr. Speaker, we feel very strongly about this resolution, only because we have had the opportunity to meet with parents and grandparents and to discuss the challenges that children are experiencing in our school system, children who suffer from autism.

A year ago we raised this issue in the House of Assembly, and we left the issue with a commitment that was untaken by the Minister of Health that he and the Minister of Education would have dialogue to look at what further services could be provided for children who suffer from autism who are in our school system. Well, a year later, we certainly did not get any feedback in terms of what were additional supports or satisfactory supports that would be launched to be able to meet the needs of these children.

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I think people should realize and understand that there is no effective means to prevent autism, and there is no full effective treatment or cure, and I think anyone who is familiar with this disease will understand this. Therefore, it becomes a disease that requires lifelong support and lifelong treatment. It does not start at the time of diagnosis and end at the age of six. In fact, it is a service that needs to be continued. The gap in our service today in this Province exists for children between the ages of six and eighteen, and this is where we hope that government will want to focus more energy, more supports and more resources.

Even since I tabled this resolution in the House of Assembly, I received a number of e-mails from people in the Province, and have been listening to what they have had to say, or reading what they have had to say, but it is amazing how many people out there, how many families out there, in this Province who have children who suffer from autism feel like they have nowhere to turn most days in terms of gathering more supports and more services.

Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of things I want to point out. First of all, that it takes seventeen months in this Province to have a child with autism diagnosed; it takes seventeen months. Even after diagnosis is done, oftentimes it takes longer before treatment is engaged.

Mr. Speaker, we are all aware of the case of Gloria Sparkes, a grandmother in this Province of two autistic children, who took her case to the Supreme Court because she felt that her grandchildren were not getting the services of early intervention that they should be getting, and she won her case. She won her case which stated that once children were diagnosed they had to receive the services of early intervention within thirty days.

Today, Mr. Speaker, in this Province those timelines are being met, but the delay now is getting the diagnosis. Because of the actions of one woman and her challenges in the courts, children today that suffer from autism will get the intervention within an appropriate period of time, but today they are not getting the diagnosis. They are waiting up to seventeen months to be diagnosed. What I have been told and the literature that I have read, tells us that early intervention of children with autism needs to occur as early as possible, within the first two years of a child's life. Because of the backlog we have in this Province of having children diagnosed, and the fact that there is only one development psychologist to serve the whole Province, our children are losing most of the first two years of their lives. That is one issue.

The other issue, Mr. Speaker, is the issue of what happens when a child becomes six years of age. We have a system today in the Province of early intervention, whether that happens when a child is two or three, whereby a child is led through our entire system. They are given the applied behaviour analysis and they are supported by that program to age six. They are given the services of communications, speech and language pathologists, they are given occupational therapy. Mr. Speaker, all of their services are provided for them. They are taken by the hand and they are led through all of the resources that a province can provide for these children.

What happens at age six? At age six, when these children have to go into our school system, those supports do not exist in the same manner and parents have to look for the resources themselves and finance those resources. The reality is we know that does not happen for every single child. Some parents have the opportunity to home school their children with a new set of challenges and problems - as I am learning - that exist around that, but not all children have that opportunity. Many of them have the opportunity to be able to hire Autism Partnership, which is a private firm that the Province engages to support these children to the age of six, but not all families have the financial ability to do that.

So, Mr. Speaker, many of our children once they reach the age of six that suffer from autism, do not have the supports they require within the system. I know that the Minister of Education today is going to stand in his place and he is going to quote to me information that says that the program may not work for all children. He will tell me that ABA may not work for every student that suffers from autism in the school system. He may have some points, but, Mr. Speaker, Dr. Ronald Leaf who has been the Autism Partnership firm that this government has hired and seconded for years to provide these services to children in our Province, in his book clearly indicates that ABA is practiced in all types of settings with all types of populations and age groups and have been used to improve many behaviours, including social skills, job performance, language, and language acquisition.

This is the same firm that the provincial government engages and pays for services for children in the Province up to age six, who is saying that there is room for this in our school system; that children have the ability to learn and foster from this program if it was available to them. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the program is used in schools all over North America. All over North America, and there are a number of journals and books that are written as testimony to the success of that program for children.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the minister will also stand today and tell me that they have a provincial pilot starting in September in our school system, to talk about the inclusion model that will be looked at in fifteen schools across the Province. Mr. Speaker, we have no problem with this model. We have no problem with incorporating it into the schools and doing the pilot. What we do have a problem with is ensuring that children who suffer from autism will get the services that they need as part of that program, because today many of those do not exist in the school system. We want to know if children of autism will have individual learning as part of that program. We want to know if they are going to have dedicated services, such as occupational therapy. We want to know if they are going to have student assistant teachers, not just assistance in the classroom, but student teacher assistants, like is being used in Nova Scotia and in New Brunswick and in Prince Edward Island, where people are trained to actually be teacher assistants in the classroom to students like this, who suffer like this, Mr. Speaker.

We know that no such designation even exists in the Province today. The designation does not exist in Newfoundland and Labrador. The training does not exist in Newfoundland and Labrador, yet it is the support that is being used in other schools in Atlantic Canada to help these children.

We want to know if ABA – why not look at piloting ABA in the classrooms? Why not piloting it in the schools? It can be incorporated in the school system as has been written by experts, experts that your own department have hired to do work in this Province and they are telling you in those books that they have authored, that it can be incorporated into the educational program.

So, Mr. Speaker, there has been a realization over the years that children that have a unique way of learning, that have unique disabilities, have been accommodated in our school system. We have seen it with children that are deaf, where there are proper supports and technology provided to them, where they have been able to communicate using sign language. We have seen it with our children that are blind, that have been given proper technology and supports in the classroom and have been given the opportunity to communicate in Braille. We have seen it with children who have learning disabilities, where there has been supports developed for them in the school system.

Today we are asking that government recognize that autism, too, is a unique disability, learning disability that these children face and that they, too, need to have the proper supports. We know without these supports, most children of autism suffer from behavioural problems and because of that, our school system have practically expelled these students.

I have dozens and dozens of cases documented here, dozens of cases of where children who suffer from autism are being expelled in our Province's schools in this Province. Because, Mr. Speaker, the teachers in the classroom do not have the supports to be able to deal with the behavioural issues that develop when these children are not taught to communicate properly and effectively.

Mr. Speaker, is it right for these children to be sent home from school on a daily basis because the resources are not in the school to deal with their problems? They need more supports, and this government has the ability to do that. You recognize that before the age of six the resource is needed, you recognize that once they turn the age of eighteen that they can go back and get those supports, so why can't they get them through their school years?

Mr. Speaker, every child must have the means to communicate in order to learn. That is a requirement in our school system, and I think we need to understand that. A child with autism - I have had cases quoted to me where they have been in a classroom with a broken hip, and sent home because they did not know what was wrong with the child; a child who has been suffering from appendicitis and could not communicate what was wrong with them, and they were just sent home, not being able and not knowing how to deal with their problems. This happens every day and it is unacceptable for children in our system.

In order for parents to continue to support these children they have to pay for it themselves, with an average cost – I have one e-mail here that was sent to me yesterday by a gentleman who said this year it will cost $12,000 for him to have supports for his child.

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that her time for speaking has expired.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will certainly conclude my comments.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will certainly conclude my comments. There are so many things that I could address as part of this, especially within the school system, in dealing with the recommendations that came out of the Pathways report and the ISSP/Pathways report to deal with teachers, to deal with student assistants, to deal with guidance counsellors and psychologists. I do not have time to get into all of that today but there were good recommendations, and they need to be followed.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to have the advice of Dr. Philpott, who I know has incorporated one course right now into the Faculty of Education at MUN that deals with this subject area, but the other course is optional. I do not think it is good enough. I think that more needs to be done if we are going to ask teachers in a classroom to deal with disorders of this nature and to deal with children of this nature. Not only do the children need to have proper supports, but so do those teachers in the classroom.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly thank the member opposite for bringing the motion forward, and for providing me and some others with the opportunity to have a chance to have a few words.

I want to say up front that I certainly do recognize the importance of the motion, and the importance, perhaps, not so much of the motion as the topic that we are discussing here today: the whole issue of autism and autistic children, and autistic families, if I might use that term perhaps a little looser.

My professional background, for the benefit of the House, was in the education system. I spent just about twenty years as a classroom teacher, a school principal, a district administrator, and I recognize many of the things that the member opposite has talked about. I have experienced those.

I am not going to stand here and - as a matter of fact, I am not going to stand here and debate many of the things that she suspects I will debate, because I do not think it is the place for it and I do not think it is the kind of debate that I want to engage in.

I also recognize from a very personal level the challenges that we have for autistic children. My own family is affected by that, and I have gone through the struggles on a personal basis for many, many years, and witnessed many of the trials and tribulations that families go through: broken homes, where husbands and wives and siblings have issues between each other in trying to reconcile what the right approach is to dealing with a child who has autism, or Autism Spectrum Disorder is perhaps the more appropriate term. We often loosely refer to it as autism, but I think Autism Spectrum Disorder is probably the clinical term.

I have seen first-hand, Mr. Speaker, the kinds of things that occur at home in families. For the benefit, I am sure, of those who may be watching this at home, or perhaps in the audience even - I am not sure - if any of these people who are here are associated with this, I am sure they can all account to some of the things that I am saying here right now.

I am not going to engage in the debate, Mr. Speaker, along the lines that perhaps the Leader of the Opposition was anticipating that I would. I do want to say up front that I do recognize the challenges at home, and I recognize the challenges in school, and I will say that we recognize, as a government, as I am sure the Opposition does, that things are not perfect.

I will share a quick story. When I taught junior high school, many years ago now, I taught an individual who was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder - a little different than the debate we are talking about, but the story is relevant – and the individual was very challenged. It was very challenging for the teachers and for me, personally, very challenging for the parents, and very challenging to establish relationships that made the classroom conducive to learning and that made the classroom a place where the student was able to learn and I was able to teach, and many of my colleagues who taught that particular child.

I share that, Mr. Speaker, because many years have passed and it was only yesterday that the mom and that particular student presented themselves in my office to say hello and to share a bright spot in their life: that this morning the son was graduating from Memorial with a Bachelor of Arts degree.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: That is a good story, Mr. Speaker, but the point of my story was not what I just said. The point of my story was that the mom shared with me that all through the K to 12 high schooling, this son – it was a male – had autism and it was never diagnosed until he got into university. So, all through the K to 12 schooling, we in the education system, and the medical professionals and the doctors who dealt with it, were treating him with drugs that applied to attention deficit disorder when, in fact, it was not the problem at all.

I share that, Mr. Speaker, to drive home the point that I am very, very familiar with what we are talking about today and I am certainly very concerned with the topic.

Back in Question Period, the member opposite asked a question of the Minister of Health and Community Services and he said this - but I can reiterate it - that in fact we have had a tremendous dialogue, the minister and I, not only since this motion came forward but even in advance of that, about where we need to go as a government to respond to the needs of, first of all and most importantly, the needs of the children in the system; secondly, the needs of the parents and the families who are affected by this and who struggle on a daily basis, I am sure, as I see my own struggle; and the needs of the teachers who are also struggling to do their best to help children, in many cases when they just do not understand what the problem is, is perhaps a very simplistic way to put it, a lack of understanding of the disorder and what it is all about.

We do work in the system. I recognize the member opposite and her comments around ABA. I am familiar with ABA. I am sure my colleague will speak to it a little later on, the Minister of Health and Community Services. I am familiar with the fact that ABA is a program that many people feel is working and is successful. I also need to acknowledge, Mr. Speaker, that it is only one of many programs. I think my relative shared with me that Son-Rise might be another program that is used by some. So I am not acknowledging that ABA is the best program but I do acknowledge that, based on the consultations and discussions that I have had with my colleague here in the House, as well as with professionals in both departments of Health and Community Services and Education, that it is a program that many people feel works for children.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge the challenges that parents tend to feel when children enter, not so much kindergarten, because there is a phase out process when you enter the kindergarten grade, but when you move beyond kindergarten and into Grade 1 and the full-fledged K-12 system where you are attending school full time on a daily basis. I also acknowledge that people find it extremely challenging that the kinds of supports that we offer there are not always where people would like them to be. There are often struggles trying to move from almost a culture shock where you are used to ABA on such an intensive basis until the child goes to school and then while somewhat reduced in kindergarten, you still do have the presence of this support. Then when you come into Grade 1, the kind of services and supports that are provided are different.

Many of the supports, Mr. Speaker, that we try to provide currently around occupational therapy, speech language pathology and professional development for teachers, those are certainly important supports. I say that upfront. I think families, certainly the families that I have dialogued with at least, would acknowledge that when they get those supports they are important and they are, in fact, valuable to the child. When the teachers get the proper training there is great value in what the teacher can do in a school with a child in the classroom.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say a couple of things, and I am mindful of my time. I just want to make sure people of the House are aware that when we talk about the kinds of things government has been doing, I want to remind people that through our involvement in the Council of Atlantic Ministers of Education and Training (CAMET), there has been a process introduced, a review of autistic services, the supports to education for autistic children and families, the supports that are delivered across Atlantic Canada. The intent is to try and seek out, for lack of a better word, common ground on where each of the provinces individually doing good things. From that, formulate collectively a plan that will help us bridge a gap. The gap that I think people readily admit, people here in the House readily admit that exists from moving from ABA and into the K-12 system. We are certainly very pleased to be a part of that and to support that consultation process.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I am certainly very pleased to make a comment on our own initiative here in the Province. We do have an advisory committee on student support services, but more specific to that, we have had some discussions with the Autistic Society of Newfoundland and Labrador. As a government and a department, our intention is to launch a consultation process in the very near future. The terms of reference have been developed for the committee and the advisory group and the kinds of work that it will engage in. It was our plan, well in advance of today, Mr. Speaker, to launch that consultation process and talk to people throughout the Province about where it is we can bridge the gap.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to jump right in, mindful of my time. I am going to make an amendment to this motion, and here is why I am going to make the amendment. As the motion currently reads, word for word, it would say to this House that if you adopt the motion that you take ABA and you apply it to the K-12 system. Now, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of reasons why that cannot be done, and I am not even going to try to stand here in front of the cameras or the people here, or the people out there and say that I have a scientific explanation for that.

What I can say to you, Mr. Speaker, is that I have been told clearly by parents and by members of the Autistic Society that ABA is not the answer for every child in this Province. Autism comes on a spectrum where you have very, very high functioning children who may have simple things, like an inability to get along socially with people and then you have the other end of the spectrum where the child has significant difficulty in all aspects of life, including academics.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the appropriate process for us to follow is to follow our consultation process to engage people in the Province and people up here immediately, and I think those people need to tell us where they feel we can go in the K-12 system and what kinds of services we can improve upon. For example, I mention these because they have been mentioned to me, not because I have the answers, but occupational therapy and speech language services are two that we deliver. The other piece that we are responsible for is the professional development of teachers, and I think one of my colleagues mentioned it earlier in Question Period.

Now, I am not saying those are the answers. Let me very clear here. I do not know if those are the answers but what I have heard from many people is that when they get those services, those services are extremely valuable to the children and the families. The complaint, for lack of a better word, is that there are not enough of those services out there. I believe if we adopt this motion, Mr. Speaker, we are locking ourselves into one program that may not necessarily be for the benefit of the majority of autistic children. I believe that it might be an answer for some and it may be able to be brought in as part of a solution to go forward but I believe that there are many other alternatives that parents are going to say to us, we need to invest our money and our time and our resources in to better improve what we are doing for autistic children in the Province.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to read an amendment, and I would ask the member if I could have leave in the event I go over time a little bit, with permission?

Mr. Speaker, I would amend the motion that is currently before the House, first of all: (a) by striking out, in the second recital clause, the words "the most common neurological disorder" and substituting therefore the words "one of the most common neurological disorders."

My second point, Mr. Speaker: (b) by striking out the sixth recital clause altogether; (c) by striking out the seventh recital clause and substituting therefore the words "WHEREAS schools require appropriate resources to meet the needs of students with autism"; and (d) by striking out the resolution clause and substituting therefore the following: "THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House calls on government to work with the Autism Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Regional Health Authorities, School Boards and with individuals and families touched by autism to enhance the quality of life of persons with autism through progressive improvements to programs and services."

Mr. Speaker, my final comment, with a moment of leave, is that I believe if this amendment is adopted the House gives us the direction, gives me the direction as a minister to immediately engage in this consultation process with professionals and with parents to seek their input on what we can do to improve what we currently have and make it better for families and for children, recognizing, Mr. Speaker, that part of what may come out of that is that we need to extend ABA and the principles of ABA in the K-12 system but it allows us to talk about other things without carte blanche adopting ABA as the one and only solution to the problem.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The House will take a brief recess so that the Chair can consult with the Table and make a determination on the amendment as to whether or not it is in order.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has reviewed the amendment that is put forward by the hon. Minister of Education and deems the amendment to be in order.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is pleasure to be able to stand today and make a few comments with regard to the Private Member's Motion which was put forward by the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

I am not going to read all the Whereases, but there are just a couple I do want to touch on. It says, "WHEREAS the number of people receiving a diagnosis of autism is on the increase in Newfoundland and Labrador; AND WHEREAS evidence based research shows that the lifetime costs of assisting a person with autism can be reduced if the child receives early diagnosis, effective treatment and adequate supports."

I understand, Mr. Speaker, there was an amendment put forward which I have not had a chance to read yet, so I will just proceed with the comments that I have with regards to this particular Private Member's Motion.

I know that the minister made some statements with regard to how families feel throughout the Province, and before I finish that is where I am going to, I guess, make my comments, with regard to families that I know in my particular area of the Province and in general.

We all know, Mr. Speaker, that autism is a social and behavioural neurological disorder that affects overall human development. I guess, the first time that it was defined was some sixty years ago by Leo Kanner, and it has only been in the last decade that public interest in this developmental disorder has so drastically increased. I am sure each and every one of us can stand in this hon. House and relate to different issues with regard to this disorder.

It is also staggering to know what the rates of diagnosis of autism in Canada and Newfoundland are, as we speak. In 2006, we had about seventy-four children diagnosed. Those numbers jumped to 114 in 2007. Mr. Speaker, currently we know that the numbers for 2007 were one in one hundred and thirty-two, and the majority of these cases were with boys. We are still waiting for the numbers for 2008 to be released, but we are told that they will be even higher than what they were in 2007.

Mr. Speaker, I have been informed that the area where I live, Conception Bay North - I understand that Trinity and the Conception Bay North area is one of the highest areas of our Province where autism is taking place today.

We hear from Dr. Bridget Fernandez at the Janeway that there is a genetic component to the disorder as there are some twenty genes identified in children with autism, but she also admits there is an environmental factor that is unknown. When you know that there are certain areas where the percentage of individuals, young people, diagnosed with autism - and we do not know because, like she said, the factor is unknown. There could be environmental issues. I guess it says something, because, as a government and as individuals in this Province, that is something we should put our attention to, to see what is actually happening in some areas. It could be an industry, that is something we do not know, or whatever factors could be playing a role there.

Mr. Speaker, when the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair made her comments, she mentioned about the seventeen-month time delay from the time the parents are referred to a psychologist to the time a child is diagnosed. We all know, from time to time in our Province there are various issues when it comes to our health care system, but those seventeen months, or pretty close to two years, are very crucial to those young people because we know that from a very early age much can be done to assist them.

We know that services are available here in our Province today. At the present time, children diagnosed with autism, up to the age of six, receive the following services: applied behavioural analysis; speech pathology services; and occupational therapy. When it comes to this, Mr. Speaker, an intensive social learning and behavioural modification therapy takes place; therapy to assist in the development of communication skills, whether speech or picture recognition, and then we have the occupational therapy, help with whether it is tying your shoelaces, doing up buttons, holding a pencil, throwing a ball, all various occupations of children.

However, at the present time, once a child turns the age of seven all these services are cut off, and that is really what this private member's motion is all about. We have heard today of incidents, we have received letters from various individuals, knowing that once those services are cut off what the cost will be to a parent. We know that it is approximately $12,000 a year they will have to provide.

Mr. Speaker, some of the concerns have been expressed by various families: one individual, a parent of a seven-year-old with autism, is hoping that something will be done at this present time to put more funding into extending the services beyond the age of six. They say for sure that they know what families are going through. The minister mentioned in his own particular family, the difficulties families and parents go through.

Another individual wrote that: We were told by the school – and I have to say, knowing this first-hand, issues that happen at the school level are supported by the school board, but in this particular case that was exactly what was being said. When the issue was brought forward at the school level they were supported by the school board, however, they were advised that the Department of Education is not accepting any new applications for support services within this program. As a matter of fact, they thought that some of the services, as they knew them at that particular time, would be taken away.

Mr. Speaker, other people go on to say, that we need funding for this early intervention, for the general population. In turn it will save government huge dollars and rescue a number of children from this epidemic. Mr. Speaker, the list goes on and on. Another individual wrote what it will cost them.

Mr. Speaker, with regard to my last few comments with regard to this very serious issue, I know in my area I had an incident, maybe three years ago, where it came to the point that the family knew that once their child became age six or over age six the services that could be provided to them in that particular area were definitely going to be downgraded and the funding would not be there. That family moved here to St. John's to live even though there was no funding for them after he passed age six. They felt that they were in an area where more services and more opportunity could be provided to that family.

I had another individual who, when they applied for funding, when the services were – not that the services were cut off, but what was being paid for up to the age of six. They did an assessment to see if government would be able to provide any financial support to them to help with this service provided to their child. When the financial assistance was carried out, when the paper work was done, they replied back to them that: We understand. They were not wealthy people but they had an RRSP that they were trying to build, not only for the child but for themselves in the future. They were told that you have to use every penny that you have in your RRSP to provide continued service to your child after the age of six.

There was another case back a few years ago, Mr. Speaker, when they entered school and the family went through a tremendous time knowing that there were some services there but really the services were not available - what were expected and what were needed - to help that particular child when they went into the school situation.

Some of the people are saying that they believe - and I understand where the minister is coming from. He referenced one particular area of this problem, and that maybe there should be an overall review. No doubt, I guess the association and others will be very pleased to hear that, as long as it is not a review that will be put together and then tabled and just forgotten about in the future.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious situation and I hope that government, in their wisdom, will be able to look at the main motion. I know there is an amendment there, and that will be dealt with shortly, but really the people are asking for support for their children even beyond the age of six. Some of them are asking, and they feel that this should continue on at least to the high school level because they do need the supports.

The families, I believe, are crying out for help. Hopefully, through this private member's motion today, whether the main motion is accepted in its entirety or along with the amendment, at least I believe that something will be done to help those families to carry on with their lives and to do whatever is best for those young children who are involved with this disorder.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to make a couple of comments around the resolution itself, and then I will make some comments with respect to the amendment proposed by my colleague.

I think one of the things we want to make sure is that people fully understand and appreciate, the comments made by the Member for Port de Grave, for example, a few moments ago, talking about the incidents and the diagnoses that have occurred in the last number of years, and the increase in incidents, let me just reinforce that view.

I am looking at some data here that suggests that back in 2002 there were twenty-five newly diagnosed cases during that particular year, and that has continued to increase progressively over the period of time from that point in time up to this year. We have had years where there have been forty-two and seventy people, seventy-six people. The year before last there were a little over a hundred people diagnosed. Last year there were some forty-four people.

So, Mr. Speaker, there is no question at all, and the statistics that have been cited and speaking to the resolution are very clear. There has been an increased incidence and the diagnosis is on the increase, and I suspect there are a number of reasons that might be. One of which, obviously, is that we are becoming much better at early identification. Obviously, the earlier you are able to identify a disorder, and the earlier you would be able to provide intervention, the greater the chances of success, and support being brought to bear early makes a major difference in the lives of those individuals who are impacted.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make sure that there is a clear understanding, with respect to our recognition as a government of the need to support children with autism, that is without question. The issue of recognition that we need to examine the kinds of supports and programs that we provide to children of autism, and the supports that we provide to the families are critical – critical response and the critical responsibility that the government has.

I think, through my colleague and the amendment being proposed, it is not at all to take away from the thrust of the comments with respect to the significance and the impact that autism has on individuals and their families.

I think one of the things that become really important, Mr. Speaker - and we have learned this is a variety of areas - as the motion would suggest, it is a very prescriptive motion and it may or may not be an appropriate response for everybody who is living with autism, or an appropriate response for their families.

So I want to speak, if I could, to the proposed amendment to the resolution, and I think it is an important point. Let me just take a moment to read it. It says, "THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House calls on government to work with…" - to work with is the operative word – "…the Autism Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Regional Health Authorities, School Boards and with individuals and families touched by autism to enhance the quality of life of persons with autism through progressive improvements to programs and services."

We have found, many times throughout government - and let's use by way of example. As the Minister of Health and Community Services, I am also the minister responsible for aging and seniors. A couple of years ago I had the privilege of leading a Province-wide public consultation where we travelled to some seventeen communities and spoke to over 1,000 people around aging issues in the Province. It was a very valuable exercise because we heard from organizations who were involved in supporting seniors. We heard from individuals themselves who are supporting family members who are seniors. We heard from seniors themselves, and we heard from community leaders, so we had a fairly broad cross-section of people come to our consultations and I think we were enriched by that process, Mr. Speaker.

We were enriched because we had a broader understanding of the issues facing an aging population in Newfoundland and Labrador. As a result of that broad consultation, as a result of that significant input from a variety of people, we were able to put together a Healthy Aging Framework, and launch it in 2007, that has guided us in the investments and initiatives of government over the last two years.

I think, Mr. Speaker, there will always be times when people will want to make further enhancements, further improvements, or there might be criticisms of not doing enough or doing it too slow, but I think what is really important, though, is that you engage the community, you engage the people who are affected by it, you engage the people who better understand the issue sometimes than most of us who sit in this Assembly here.

That is why I think this proposed amendment to this motion is a critical piece to help guide us to ensure that we have a successful outcome. There is no mistake here, Mr. Speaker; all of us, every single person who sits in this Assembly today, and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, all understand the need to continuously try and improve the services that we provide. In this particular case we are talking about people who are living with autism, talking about their families and the support that they need. No one at all, Mr. Speaker, would ever suggest that as a government, as a society, we should not be responsive to the changing needs of our society, the changing needs of individuals, in this case with autism, but we need to do it right, Mr. Speaker. We need to be certain that what we are doing, we are making informed decisions, and we are involving those people who are actively engaged.

Several years back, as a provincial government, there was about $40,000 a year being provided to the Autism Society. As a result of some discussions with the society, talking about programming that they provide and the supports that they need, we are providing a $325,000-a-year grant to the society so they can continue to do that work that they do on behalf of the people with autism in this Province and their families.

Mr. Speaker, let there be no doubt, let there be no doubt at all, that as a government we are keenly interested in building on the services we now have. We recognize, and the member opposite pointed out, the wait times for assessments. We recognize that today, for example, we have had some staff turnover, and as a result of that staff turnover there have been some delays in the recent past. When we get the staff who we just recently recruited gone through some training programs they will be back on track with the full complement that we enjoyed several months ago.

There will be times in the delivery of programs and services that you will have interruptions, you will have some delays. That may happen periodically because of some human resource challenges, but, Mr. Speaker, always it is our intention as a government, it has always been our intention as a government, and that is what will guide us in the future. Our interest is what is in the best interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and we respond to the changing needs of various sectors of our society, various sectors of our communities but when we respond we want to make sure that we are making the right decision, it is evidence-based decision making. What this proposed amendment - and I say to the members of the House that I will be supporting the proposed amendment because I believe it reflects a process that is appropriate for us to guide us as we move forward. To stand in this House today, or to sit in this House as a group of individual members and to support a resolution that is very prescriptive and may or may not do what the intention of the mover would have been.

I think in all seriousness and in all fairness to the member opposite who moved the motion, it was her intent and it was her party's intent, I am certain, to ensure that she in fact at the end of the day, the result of a motion such as this would see some improvements in the services being provided to children with autism and supports to their families. The intention, I am certain, was to ensure that what we did as a government was the right thing but I think, Mr. Speaker, what we want to try to do is to better understand - there are many theories, many views, many thoughts. There is one consistent view, though, Mr. Speaker, and that is that there is a need to improve services, and I will not argue that point.

The point being raised in this House today for us to debate and the substance of the motion and the thrust of the motion is to take a particular type of action. So by proposing an amendment, it is not to take away at all from the thrust of the motion, not to take away at all from the intent by the mover, not to take away at all from any of the comments that have been made about the incidence of autism, the significance of it, the impact it has on individuals and families, the challenges these people find as they walk through various stages of their lives, but I say, Mr. Speaker, it is important to do what is right. I believe that the motion as proposed here talks about a consultation process. It talks about engaging people who understand, it talks about engaging families, it talks about engaging communities, the Society for Autism for Newfoundland and Labrador.

So, Mr. Speaker, with that I will conclude my comments, but I do want to reiterate. As a government, we have made a commitment to improving the quality of life for the people who live in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is an inclusive statement to talk about all members of society, and we will continue to build on the programs and services that we provide through Health and Community Services and in this case here, Mr. Speaker, in partnership with our colleagues in Education.

Across government there are many initiatives that we undertake that crosses many department boundaries. In this particular case here I look forward to working very closely with my colleagues in Education as we engage in this consultation process. The lead on the consultation will be the Department of Education. However, officials from my department and myself will be actively involved in the process as well because there is a crossover here between both departments, but also too, the school boards and the regional health authorities will be actively engaged in this process and the outcome, Mr. Speaker, will be clear. We will all, all members of this House, together with government itself, will have a good understanding and a better feeling today, and a better understanding after it is over than we do have today about what might be an appropriate action. When we come back to that, some of the suggestions that are made in the initial motion may be implemented, but we will not know that until that consultation is concluded.

I say, Mr. Speaker, on that note, I conclude my comments and thank you for the opportunity to make my brief remarks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak to the motion that is before us on Autism Spectrum Disorders, and the amendment that has been suggested by the Minister of Education.

I have problems with the amendment. I do not have problems with the intent of the amendment. Obviously, I believe that this government should work with the Autism Society of Newfoundland and Labrador. They should already be working with them. I presume that they are, but I do not think it is to a satisfactory degree. Obviously, the House would call upon the government to work with the regional health authorities and the school boards. I am presuming, it does not say it, but I would hope that it is the Department of Education who is also going to be working on this issue as well. The Department of Education is not in the resolution, in the amendment.

Obviously, I believe in consultation, and obviously I believe that especially the Autism Society should be consulted by the different authorities, whether it is the regional health authorities or the school boards, or the Department of Education, and that the individuals and the families who live with autism, either because the individual has ASD or the family that supports the individual. So they all live with ASD in one form or another, in one meaning or another. Everybody wants to improve the quality of life, both for those individuals who are suffering from ASD and also for the families who are living with the individual.

So all of us want everything that is in the amendment, but I think the amendment, personally, waters down the intent or the meaning of the original proposal. What does it mean to say: Through progressive improvements to programs and services? How long are we going to have to wait for government to come up with what that means? We have been over a year now waiting for some action on this issue. Yet, today, what we have before us is an amendment that promises that there will be consultations and that through those consultations we hope to come to a point where there will be an enhancement of the quality of life of persons with autism through progressive improvements to programs and services.

What I am concerned about is that this resolution actually slows down the process. I do not think that consultations, long drawn-out consultations actually have to happen. I think the Autism Society and individual parents and families have spoken loud and clearly with regard to the needs. Everybody recognizes the things that are there that are positive, and I recognize them as well. What government is providing with regard to an early intervention program for young children with the diagnosis of ASD is excellent, and the early intervention program is proving to be very, very successful. It definitely, significantly improves the outcomes for children with ASD and their families; there is no doubt about that.

Under this program, and maybe not everybody watching us today is aware of what the early intervention program involves, but under this program children who are diagnosed with ASD are offered thirty hours a week of home therapy, which is supervised by a senior therapist from Eastern Health. This therapy has really proven itself to be successful. It is the main medical intervention received for children with ASD.

What we have to keep in mind with ASD is that while quality of life can be enhanced, and while depending on what part of the spectrum one may find oneself, one can have a quality of life as one becomes an adult, improved from where one was as a child, but the reality is, a person will always have ASD. It does not go away. It is a lifelong disorder. It is something that is a profound disability, more profound for some than for others. It impacts the life of the person, it impacts the family of the person, it impacts parents, and it impacts siblings. Anybody who has had experience in their family, either in their immediate family or extended family, of somebody who has been diagnosed with ASD and different disorders that fall under autism, such as Asperger's Syndrome, knows the impact that that disorder has on the individual and on the family.

The situation that we are in right now is that children with ASD receive this early intervention from the time of their diagnosis until they enter Kindergarten. In Kindergarten the therapy is reduced to fifteen hours a week, and at the beginning of Grade 1 that intervention ceases. Children and families who have been used to having this home therapy, while it becomes more limited in Kindergarten they are still used to having this home therapy. Once they start in school the home therapy ends. Now, I do not know what the thinking is around that. I can imagine what the thinking is around it. It is that the school is going to take over, the school situation is going to take over from the home therapy, that the school situation is going to have programs that will make up for the home therapy.

One thing seems clear, from those who studied ASD and those who have done evaluation of early intervention and home therapy programs, that about 50 per cent of the children benefit from that to the degree that they could, in school, not need the home therapy that has been provided up to now, that their disorders are of such a nature that they really benefit very well from the home therapy. There is another 50 per cent of the children who get home therapy who, in actual fact, still need extensive help when they go on into Grade 2. They do not magically, automatically, all of a sudden, not need what they needed before. It is not that they reach a limit, they can improve beyond, but they cannot do it on their own, they need extra help, they need extra support.

What our program right now does not recognize is that there are people, there are families, who do get the extra help that is not available from the system, that is not available from schools and that is not available from the health care system, but the families who do are the families who can afford it. You get a disparity between families who can afford to get the extra help once the child is no longer eligible for the early intervention, because the child is now into Grade 2, that once that happens, those who cannot afford anything else, their child is not going to have as much help as the child whose family can afford it.

You know, I speak personally from this. I do have a nephew who has Asperger's Syndrome, and he was fortunate enough to live in British Columbia. The interventions that he experienced in his schooling, all the way up to junior high school, were amazing. By the time he got to junior high school, he no longer needed the intense interventions that were there for him all the way along. He went through everything from the home therapy through to having an aid with him all day long, in the beginning, in the classroom with him, through to now being ready to look at university; like another story that was told here today. One, he was in a province that offered help all the way through the school system, and, two, he was in a family who could also afford to get more help if more help was needed.

That is the kind of disparity that we do not want to have. I do not think we want to have it Province-wide, and I do not think we want to have it family-wide, that any child who has ASD, no matter where on the spectrum the child is, should be able to get all the assistance they need.

Studies have shown that an adult with autism who requires full-care group home life, once they become an adult, that it costs the state about $250,000 a year to keep that person in a group home with full care, whereas, if money is put into the system while children with ASD are in school, and we come up front with the programs that are needed – and I am not saying that every single one of the 50 per cent of the children who did not benefit enough from early intervention are going to need the same intensity for the rest of their lives in the schools, but they are going to extra help. If we put the money up front then, we will be saving money down the road, because most likely they will not require to be in a full care home situation, costing the state $250,000. It is money wisely spent for us to put money up front now while the children are in the school system.

Another thing that is happening - and I want to speak to this because I have been speaking to families who have children with ASD - three parents who I have been in touch with today, one of those parents, and I want to speak for them because they cannot be here in this room and speak for themselves, so they are watching. They are watching all of us. One of those parents has a seven-year-old child with an above-average I.Q. who has not been in school at all for most of this year. The school believed that attending school was unsafe for the child, for other children and for staff. This family has been under intense stress because of that decision, because now this family has the sole responsibility for this very disabled child, twenty-four seven. They are the only ones with responsibility for this child and that child has two siblings, so you can imagine what this has meant for that family. Right now, he is currently being transitioned back into school. He is allowed to attend school for forty-five minutes twice a week right now. That child has a really special need and that family should not have to handle that situation on their own.

I spoke to another parent who told me about their eleven-year-old son, again a child with an average I.Q., and that parent said her son was expelled from school for three weeks and since then has slowly begun a transition back to school. He is now allowed to attend a little over three hours a day.

These are some of the situations that are out there. These are the situations that government is going to hear about, if government has not already heard about them. I cannot believe that I would be the only person who is being told these stories. I am sure that my colleague, the Leader of the Official Opposition, in bringing her motion forward today, brought it forward because she, too, has these stories coming to her. We get them from individuals, and we get them from the Autism Society. They are out there. I am positive that some of my colleagues on the government side of the House have to be getting these stories also.

I am sorry about the amendment, because I think we would have assumed there should be consultation anyway, whether or not that word was put into an amendment. I hope this amendment does not do in action what it does in words; because, for me, it waters down. I appreciate the ruling of the Chair. I do not think it changes the total intent of the motion that was put forward. I am not going to speak to it, I did not move it, I did not second it, but I was ready to vote for the motion as it was put forward because I believe that radical action is needed. I believe that those families, two of whom I have just spoken about, and there are more of them out there, they need help, they need assistance. This is not just their responsibility.

I do know, from speaking to these families, that right now the treatments that are out there that are in schools, like some of the programs that the Minister of Education spoke about, the occupational therapy programs are very limited. So I hope that when the minister says that he wants progressive improvements to programs and services, I hope that means immediately, absolutely immediately, and improvements - it is not improvements in the type of programs. I do not think people are complaining about the type of programs; it is that there are inadequate resources to service all of the children who need them. Right now, in my understanding, the latest figures we got from the Department of Education, we have about 400 children in the Province, with 200 of them, approximately, being in the Eastern Region.

Progressive improvements, that means put money in there to take care of these children, but something has to be done about the parents, where their child has to move back and forth from the school to home.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that her speaking time has expired.

MS MICHAEL: If I could just clue up, please, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you.

We have to worry about not just the child in the system. It is like, with what we have done now, once a child gets into Grade 1 that is it. We do not have to worry about the family any more; we do not have to worry about their home situation any more. What I am saying is that the home and the family, right through, as long as this child is in school, has to be part of the programming that happens.

As I said, I am sorry about the amendment. I will be voting for the resolution and I thank the Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly want to thank all of my colleagues in the House of Assembly today for their input into this particular issue, their insight, and also for their co-operation. I specifically refer to the amendment that was proposed by the Minister of Education. While it is not the swift and quick action that we were asking for in the motion that we tabled, we are satisfied that government's attention has been drawn to the issue and that they are prepared to work for better solutions.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to point out that the whole reason in bringing this motion to the floor of the House of Assembly today is because it is an issue that has not been dealt with to the satisfaction of families who have children who suffer from autism in this Province. It is because of the very stories that you just heard from my colleague, the Leader of the NDP, and from others who have spoken here today. In fact, I have several pages of stories myself that were told to me by parents of autistic children, about how they were treated in classrooms only because the resources were not there to deal with their illness, to deal with the kind of communication skills that they were lacking.

Mr. Speaker, we do not blame the teachers in the classroom but we do realize and have to accept that we have a system that is not working for all of these children, and we have a responsibility to improve it.

Mr. Speaker, my colleague, the Minister of Education, today proposed that government would, "…work with the Autism Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Regional Health Authorities, School Boards and with individuals and families touched by autism to enhance the quality of life of persons with autism through progressive improvements to programs and services."

I am taking that to mean that the Department of Education would be one of the key players involved with this entire process. Mr. Speaker, we do not want to see this pushed over into another study that will take another year or two years to be reported upon. We already have a study right now that was done in the name of the ISSP plan and the Pathways plan, that was done, a very comprehensive piece of work that outlined very specifically that students with exceptionalities in our school system need to be treated, and there are responsibilities on behalf of the government and the Department of Education to ensure that they have the resources in the classroom.

I can stand here for the next fifteen minutes and quote from the recommendations that were in this report about services that were supposed to be improved in schools, and a lot of it has not yet occurred. This report was done now since 2007 and it talked about the fact that student assistants needed to become teacher assistants in the classrooms in order to deal with children like those who suffer from autism, but we do not have a program developed even today in this Province to teach these people how to become student assistants. We do not have any certificate program like they do in other Atlantic Provinces. We do not even make it a requirement in our school system to have that resource for children.

The minister and the government have had that recommendation for two years, telling you that this needed to be done, so don't think that we are going to be bought off by another report or another study and we are going to go away and let this thing just fade. That is not on.

We will support the amendment that is brought forward, and we will vote for it, but we expect government to act in a timely fashion. On June 3 last year, nearly one year ago, when I raised this issue in the House of Assembly I was told at that time that the government, through the Minister of Education and the Minister of Health, would evaluate and look at options to improve services for these children, and it did not occur. It did not occur.

For example, Mr. Speaker, one of the few recommendations in this report that did get implemented partially was a recommendation around classroom teachers, basically stating that teachers should have to do certain courses, as part of their Education degree, that would deal with autism. Of course, Mr. Speaker, the report recommended that there be two. Right now, from what I understand from Dr. Philpott at Memorial, there is only one program that has been introduced. The other one is actually optional and they do not have to do this course; it is an optional course. So, Mr. Speaker, even that recommendation that was in the report did not get fully endorsed.

It also talks about Special Education teachers, and the fact that Special Education teachers need to have all the appropriate training to deal with all aspects that students with exceptionalities have within the system. In fact, we are learning today that 40 per cent of our teachers that actually work as Special Education teachers in our schools do not hold a Special Education degree. Only 60 per cent of them do, so 40 per cent of them have never received the appropriate training in the first place. Those are things that I think government needs to start looking at immediately.

Mr. Speaker, the other issues are around things like occupational therapy, which the minister did allude to when he spoke this afternoon. Those things need to be provided for children who are in the system. That is the whole reason why we are bringing this forward today. It is not just to deal with ABA, but it is to deal with all the other supports that they need: the supports around speech and language, and around communication skills. Because we all know, and statistics show, the two books that I quoted here today - that were written by the same author that the government has been paying for years to work with these children - are telling us that the program can work in the schools. It just needs to be done. He has even written a book on how it can be done, how it can be a part of the education system. Where it may not work for every single child of autism, it will work for a lot of these children but if it is not available, how can they avail of it?

Mr. Speaker, in this Province today we have seen the number of children with autism increase. In 2006, we had seventy-four children that were diagnosed. These numbers today have jumped to 114 in 2007, and we expect that the statistics for 2008 are once again going to show a rise in those particular numbers. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the demand for service is climbing. It is climbing simply because there are more people out there, more children out there that actually need the service.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, I was going to quote one of the doctors at the Janeway, one of the doctors that have dealt with this particular issue. I was looking for what she had to say because her comments were very insightful, but what she was talking about was that the numbers related to the number of children with autism increasing in the Province is far greater and far higher than any other similar cases that they have been dealing with. I think that those kinds of remarks coming from people that are specialists and authorities in the field is reason enough for government to think that they should act and the time has come to act.

Mr. Speaker, I have received so many e-mails from across this Province. In fact, one e-mail that I received only recently really disturbed me, because it was from a parent of a ten-year-old son who had been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder, only in November of 2008. They had developed an ISSP program for him in the school system, but they were just told by his school that the Department of Education is not accepting any new applicants for support services and programming. I do not know why that is. If this is supposed to be the solution in dealing with children who face those kinds of challenges in our system, why is there a parent being told today that the service will not be available for his child? Why are they not taking new applications?

Mr. Speaker, the parent went on to tell me that the school has been trying their best, pushing this with the board and the Department of Education, and they have been informed that support services will actually be reduced for this coming year. I do not know why that is. Those are the kinds of things that parents are being told in the system. This is the response that they are being given. I am going to give this to the minister because I think it needs to be looked into. I think there needs to be answers provided to these families when they are being told that the ISSP process is the process for your child, that we are now going to incorporate everybody into the one classroom setting and that services are going to be provided but yet they are being told that it is not available to you. There needs to be a reason. One is not jiving with the other at all.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, in another e-mail I received from a lady on the west coast, she told me that she has a two-year-old and a four-year-old that suffer from autism. In fact, they went on to tell me that they have three cousins, every one of them who have children with autism. She went on to say that in the classroom her children were educated in on the west coast of Newfoundland, they have had an autistic child in that classroom almost throughout every single year of their schooling and they have not been getting the supports.

These are not people who deal, just flimsy dealing with the system. These are individuals who are there every day, who are trying to walk their children through our education system and ensure that they get the best education possible so that they can have the successes as we have heard today from students who are graduating from Memorial with autism and other post-secondary programs but the reality is, not all children get that far.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, I have dealt personally with a case this year of a child who has basically been terminated from school, not allowed back into the school because they do not know how to deal with their behavioural issues, which stems from the fact that they have not had the proper treatments. They have not had the proper communications in their lives in the system to be able to deal with this. So they are abandoned from our system when they are fourteen years old. Is that appropriate? I do not think so. It is a real problem and may not be affecting hundreds and thousands of children in our Province but it is affecting dozens of children, tens, twenties, thirties of our children. In fact today, Mr. Speaker, over 100 of our children. That is an important enough reason to make changes.

I received this e-mail from a father of a boy with autism who, within the next eight months, will no longer be eligible for services through the government with respect to ABA and the other essential programs that he was receiving. They estimate that their cost this year, to ensure that their child continues with these services, will be a minimum of $12,000. How many families can afford that?

The family on the West Coast of Newfoundland who has a two-year-old and a four-year-old does not have the income today. Maybe they will in two years time, afford to spend $25,000 a year on services for their two children, but most of these families cannot afford even the minimum, which is $12,000 to get those treatments and to get that service.

Mr. Speaker, our purpose today in bringing forward this motion was to ensure that certain issues around this are addressed, that children with autism have a place in our school system and they have the supports that they need to be able to study and be able to progress and to be able to be contributing, functional members of society. We all know that once they go without the program, once the government lets go of the hand of that child at six years old, they regress in most cases. That is why by the time they get into further grades in their schools that they have these behavioural problems and they are being expelled from schools and playgrounds and other activities that are going on.

Our purpose today in bringing this motion forward is not to condemn the government for what you are doing, but to ask you to do more, to ask you to not let go of the hand of that child when they reach six years old and enter the classrooms of our schools, but to continue to take them through our system so that they have the opportunities that all other children in our society have. I certainly hope, minister, that your commitment today, and I do not doubt that it is sincere, but I hope your commitment today will be one that we will see progressing in the early days and not a year from now or two years from now. I think we need action sooner than then. So we will be watching to see how government progresses on this issue.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Is the House ready for the question?

Shall the amendment as put forward by the Minister of Education carry?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.

The amendment is carried.

On motion, amendment carried.

MR. SPEAKER: Shall the resolution, as amended, carry?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.

The motion, as amended, is carried.

On motion, resolution, as amended, carried.

MR. SPEAKER: Being 4:35 p.m. and this being Private Members' Day, this House now stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. of the clock, tomorrow being Thursday.

This House is now adjourned.