November 16, 2016
HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLVIII No. 43
The
House met at 2 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Osborne):
Order, please!
Admit
strangers.
We would
like to welcome to the public gallery Mr. Harry Cooze. Mr. Cooze will be the
subject of a Member's statement today.
Statements by
Members
Today
for Members' statements we have the Members for the District of Lewisporte
Twillingate, Fogo Island Cape Freels, Conception Bay East Bell Island,
Placentia West Bellevue, Virginia Waters Pleasantville and Topsail
Paradise.
The hon.
Member for the District of Lewisporte Twillingate.
MR. D. BENNETT:
Mr. Speaker, I rise in this
hon. House today to recognize an outstanding citizen from the District of
Lewisporte Twillingate, Mr. Norman Austin.
Last
month, Mr. Austin was the recipient of the Sovereign's Medal for Volunteers,
presented to him by the Governor General of Canada, David Johnston. The
Sovereign's Medal for Volunteers recognizes the exceptional volunteer
achievements of Canadians from across the country. Mr. Austin is certainly
deserving of this honour.
For over
a decade, Mr. Austin has dedicated himself to the region as a snowshoeing and
athletic coach with the Special Olympics Newfoundland and Labrador and the
Gander Wings club. In this role he has helped local athletes train and build
confidence and reach their fullest potential.
Mr.
Austin has no plans to stop volunteering, and no doubt will continue to
contribute to the community of Lewisporte and to Special Olympics Newfoundland
and Labrador in a very meaningful way.
I ask
all hon. Members to join me and please congratulate Mr. Norman Austin on this
prestigious award and thank him for his many years of volunteer service.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Member for Fogo
Island Cape Freels.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. BRAGG:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in this hon. House to recognize and celebrate the efforts of two
communities in my district that have held their first-ever Remembrance Day
service. I had the privilege of attending the inaugural service in both Dover
and Lumsden. Through the efforts of their volunteers and generosity of the
donors, these communities built monuments that bear the names of those fallen in
past world conflicts.
The memorial in Dover is located right in the middle of town. It will
serve as a sombre focal point for residents of that community. The memorial in
Lumsden has been built in the old Lumsden North Cemetery, right next to the
grave of Pierce Parsons, a young man from the town who was one of the brave
individuals who gave their lives on July 1 at Beaumont-Hamel. I was very proud
to be able to take part in these services, and each was supported by a very
large turnout.
I ask all Members of this hon. House to join me in celebrating the
efforts of these two communities.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Conception Bay East Bell Island.
MR. BRAZIL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, I stand today to recognize a very active organization in my district. I
speak of the Portugal Cove-St. Philip's Lions Club who, for the past 40 years,
has supported the residents of Portugal Cove-St. Philip's through a multitude of
special projects and unique events. I had the privilege of speaking at the Lions
Club 40th anniversary banquet this past Saturday and saw first-hand the
impressive work they do to engage and improve the lives of residents.
They
partnered with a multitude of groups to offer seniors programs, to supply
equipment for disabled youth, special health equipment for citizens to improve
their quality of life and the list of supports they offer goes on and on.
I would
be remiss if I didn't note an international project the club was involved with
this past year. The club took on a special project and sent their president, Mr.
Bradley Moss, to Haiti in a
partnership with the project Broken Earth to help provide free eye screening to
over 650 patients and supplying eyeglasses from the Lions Club to 423 men, women
and children.
I ask
all Members to join me in congratulating and thanking president Moss and all
members of the Portugal Cove-St. Philip's Lions Club.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Placentia West Bellevue.
MR. BROWNE:
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to
recognize a man whose name has become synonymous with helping others, giving
back to the community and putting the needs of those around him ahead of his
own. His name is Harry Cooze and is in the gallery today.
As a
long-time member of the Marystown Lions Club, he has served the sick, fundraised
for the downtrodden and still serves as chair for the Lions Junior Speakout
Competition. For this and his many years of service he was awarded in 2014 the
Melvin Jones Fellowship Award, the highest honour for a Lion.
His
second passion has always been physical fitness. He ran his first road race in
1957 while attending university and has run more Tely 10 races than we can
count. He was a founding member of the Mariner's Athletic Club and I can safely
say he is responsible for many, many people taking a healthier lifestyle more
seriously including me.
In 2006,
he was recognized as the recipient of the Dr. John Williams Award from the Tely
10 road race.
I ask
all hon. Members to join with me in congratulating Harry on his successes and
for the many successes that he has encouraged others to attain.
Thank
you, Harry.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Virginia Waters Pleasantville.
MR. B. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise
in this hon. House today to wish one of my constituents a very happy 100th
birthday. Rita Symonds, who lives in Pleasantville, celebrated a century of life
on Remembrance Day, surrounded by her friends and family. I had the honour of
attending Ms. Symonds's birthday party and presented her with a certificate on
behalf of myself and the hon. Premier.
It was a
privilege to be able to meet someone who has lived through so many changes in
our world. There was a great turnout for Ms. Symonds's party. I would estimate
well over 50 people in attendance. This is a tremendous testament to how much
she has affected the lives of people in a positive way.
I would
also like to congratulate all of those who received the Duke of Edinburg
International Award at the bronze level last Tuesday, including six members of
my district. The Duke of Edinburg Award encourages youth to develop their
leadership skills with a mixture of service, skill development, physical
activity and adventurous journeys.
I ask
all hon. Members in this House to join me in congratulating the Duke of Edinburg
International Award recipients, all of them, for their hard work and wishing Ms.
Rita Symonds a happy birthday.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Topsail Paradise.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you.
Mr.
Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the Town of Paradise
and the St. John's Regional Fire Service on the opening of the brand new
Paradise Fire Station No. 8 which celebrated its grand opening just recently,
Friday, October 28.
To start
the ceremony, the St. John's Regional Fire Service Honour Guard completed a
parade of flags from the Paradise Town Hall to the brand new fire station.
Thomas Tippett, a grade six student from Paradise, was the Honour Guard
commander for a day, and was part of the flag march that led the opening
ceremonies. He was selected during a contest as part of town's 2016 Municipal
Awareness Days.
The St.
John's Regional Fire Service is responsible for providing the region with an
acceptable level of fire and emergency protection in the most economical manner,
with a backup of emergency services being provided to a number of surrounding
towns in the Northeast Avalon region. Fire Station No. 8 is equipped with Engine
8 and Tanker 8, a staff complement of 17 firefighters. I can tell you, Mr.
Speaker, it is a state-of-the-art facility.
I ask
all Members to join me in congratulating the Town of Paradise and St. John's
Regional Fire Service for their enhanced service to the region.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Statements by Ministers.
Statements by
Ministers
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Service NL.
MR. JOYCE:
Mr. Speaker, I rise in this
hon. House today to recognize the National Day of Remembrance for Road Crash
Victims. This year's theme is Moments Matter and moments do matter, Mr.
Speaker, because it only takes a moment to lose everything that's important in
someone's life.
Mr.
Speaker, more than 1,800 people are killed in road crashes every year in Canada
and another 150,000 are injured; road safety is a shared responsibility and each
of us can take action to make our roads safer.
This
afternoon I attended an event at the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary
Headquarters where I met with many people who are dedicated to raising awareness
of the importance of road safety in our province. Service NL's Motor
Registration Division, the RNC and the RCMP are doing valuable work in this
regard.
Service
NL highway enforcement officers promote safety on public highways by monitoring
vehicle traffic to ensure the Highway
Traffic Act is respected.
Also,
Mr. Speaker, our government is committee to brush clearing and public education.
To date, a total of 14 tenders valued at $1.95 million have been identified for
brush cutting across the province. We are fortunate to be able to work with
groups including Mothers Against Drunk Driving, Stand for Hannah, the Save our
People Action Committee and Safety Services Newfoundland and Labrador, who help
spread the message about road safety. These groups participated in today's
event.
Mr.
Speaker, I call on all my colleagues here in this hon. House to join me in
thanking everyone who supports and promotes road safety in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. K. PARSONS:
I'd like to thank the
minister for the advance copy of his statement. We, as Opposition, also join
with government in recognizing the National Day of Remembrance for Road Crash
Victims.
Today
our thoughts are with those families and individuals who have been devastated by
road crashes. I would also like to take the opportunity to thank those who keep
our roads safer including the RNC, the RCMP and the staff at Service NL; also,
the many non-profit organizations that do such a diligent job to care for the
cause of road safety.
I would
also like to take a moment to encourage everyone in the province to be mindful
of things we can do, the small little things that we can do to make sure our
roads are safer, reduce speed, watch for weather conditions, non-distractive
driving. There are so many different things we can do to make our roads safer.
When you
look at 1,800 fatalities in Canada over a year, it's way too many. So anything
we can do to reduce road hazards and different tragedies on roads, we want to
encourage it also.
Thank
you.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for St.
John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I, too,
thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. Because so many
crashes have to do with moose on the highways, it is good to see the
continuation of brush clearing and public education to address the many serious
moose-vehicle collisions that continue to occur in the province.
I would
encourage the minister to review the positive evaluation of fencing found in his
government's own report of 2014, not just brush clearing.
Thank
you very much, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
Further statements by
ministers?
The hon.
the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agrifoods.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, I rise to highlight the provincial government's participation in the
2016 China Fisheries and Seafood Expo, which took place in Qingdao, China, from
November 2 to 4.
This
important seafood expo allows us to promote our quality seafood products to
interested Chinese companies and help our producers build relationships in this
important market. China is our second-largest export destination for seafood
products. More than $200 million or 20 per cent of our seafood exports went
to China last year. Our key seafood exports to China include shrimp, snow crab,
capelin, seal and turbot. As we transition to groundfish, China will continue to
be an important market for us.
Mr.
Speaker, I was also pleased to join federal and provincial counterparts in
Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Ministerial Trade Mission events in Qingdao and
Beijing. These meetings and events give us the opportunity to discuss market
access and trade development issues for Canada's seafood and agricultural
products with federal/provincial colleagues and government officials in China.
Mr.
Speaker, in 2015 our seafood industry was valued at over $1.2 billion.
Participating in such events as the China Fisheries and Seafood Expo has the
potential to open up additional business and opportunities for producers and we
are proud to continue valuable support for the seafood industry.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Cape
St. Francis.
MR. K. PARSONS:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I thank
the minister for an advance copy of his statement. As I've said numerous times
in this House, markets of our seafood are very important for our fishery and our
future in this province. I've heard from fishermen on a daily basis of having
trouble selling their catch. Right now, we're looking at the groundfish
returning and it's so important that our government be focused on the new
markets that we need.
We talk
about diversifying our economy. Well, our groundfish and our cod fishery coming
back is one way in which we can save a lot of parts of rural Newfoundland and
Labrador. It's so important that this government do due diligence to make sure
that we have the markets in place.
Government promised a little while ago, and in their budget plan, that they were
going to have a seafood marketing council put in place. I've heard nothing to
date about that. I think it's going to be too late if government doesn't do
action right away on marketing in our province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Member for St.
John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I, too,
thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. This is good news and
I hope we open up new markets and new business possibilities.
The
minister notes China is the second-largest export destination for our seafood
products to the tune of $200 million, but Newfoundland and Labrador is facing a
serious job crisis. The fishery is one of our main employers, so I hope the
minister is focused on creating more harvesting and value-added processing
sector jobs for the people of this province.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Further statements by
ministers?
Oral
Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My first
question today is for the Premier.
I ask
the Premier: Why did the people of Newfoundland and Labrador have to hear from
the Quebec minister of Natural Resources that you are having discussions with
the premier of Quebec on Labrador hydro assets?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
What has
been known for quite some time now, if you look at what has been going on in our
province right now in the mandate letter that was given to the minister back in
December of 2015, just after the election, part of the development around Gull
Island is that the minister would seek out opportunities.
To the
former premier, I would say, Mr. Speaker, there has been no discussion with
Quebec about the opening of the Upper Churchill contract or the Muskrat Falls
Project or Gull Island. This came out in media reports out of Quebec yesterday.
I reached out to the premier's office in Quebec last night, and he is out of the
country, to get clarification on where this is coming from.
I have
talked to the premier about the agreement on internal trade, which has nothing
to do with those contracts. There are no negotiations ongoing with Premier
Couillard in Quebec right now on the sale of assets of hydro or the Churchill
Falls contract.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The
Premier probably should have called the Quebec minister of Natural Resources
because he's the one who's publicly said that discussions have been ongoing for
some time, Mr. Speaker. We're heard from the Quebec minister of Natural
Resources.
Premier,
when are we going to hear from your own Minister of Natural Resources about the
Liberal's secret talks that are happening with Hydro-Quιbec?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well,
the former premier mentioned in the media that came out yesterday that the
minister of Natural Resources in Quebec mentioned about two premiers talking.
Those discussions are not ongoing, so we reached out to the appropriate people,
I would say, Mr. Speaker.
What was
real interesting last night in that conversation, talking about secret
conversations, the conversation that occurred before the former premier in 2015
is what came up during our conversation, I say, Mr. Speaker.
It was
the former premier back in July of 2015, so we were told, that he had meetings.
We have not had any.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, I
did have discussions with the premier of Quebec and the premier of Quebec said
to me: You end the legal action against Quebec and we'll have discussions.
So I ask
the Premier: Will you abandon the legal action against Quebec to have
discussions with the premier of Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
So it's
obvious now that the former premier has had secret meetings with the Quebec
administration about the sale of assets. Maybe he will explain what happened in
those secret meetings.
The last
conversation I've had with Premier Couillard in Quebec was to notify him of
this, is that we would be filing a notice of appeal in the last ruling against
court action. The last conversation I had was to let him know that we would be
filing a notice of appeal.
So we're
not about relieving these court actions. We put the notice of appeal in. I've
notified the premier of that, and no discussion since.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
So the
Premier is quite clear and I'll make it quite clear for the Premier; there was
no secret meeting with the premier of Quebec. He asked me to abandon the legal
action and I refused, Premier. I would not it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
I wouldn't do it to
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
Mr.
Speaker, the Minister of Natural Resources said in September that there were no
discussions happening with Quebec, so I ask the Minister of Natural Resources:
Do you stand by that statement?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
MS. COADY:
Yes.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On
August 1, we asked the Minister of Natural Resources if the government is
exploring options to selling assets or excess energy through Hydro-Quιbec, and
if any negotiations have commenced with Hydro-Quιbec and the minister
responded just this Monday, three-and-a-half months later; 12 minutes before the
House opened, the minister finally responded and she said neither the Government
of Newfoundland and Labrador nor Nalcor are involved in discussions.
So I ask
the Premier: Do you stand by that statement as well?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There
were no discussions occurring with the Province of Quebec or Hydro-Quιbec that
we were involved in, none whatsoever. However, I will say this: When you have an
opportunity to pursue something that will benefit Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians, our job is explore the opportunities, whether they are with some
other province
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Whether
they be with some other province, be it Quebec, Nova Scotia, or someone else,
the responsible thing to do is to explore the options that we would have
available to us; not to be slamming doors against other provinces that are
prepared to work with our province to improve the economic health in our
province for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
I am
prepared to have discussions as long as it is a right deal and Newfoundlanders
and Labradorians benefit from that. I would say, Mr. Speaker, the threshold of
good deals is very low based on the work of the previous administration.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
And here
we go with mixed messages from Members opposite again. Here we go.
The CEO
of Nalcor has said he's having discussions with Quebec. He said he is. He
represents the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. The Minister of Natural
Resources says they're not having discussions with Quebec, Mr. Speaker. The
Premier says they're not having discussions with Quebec And now the minister of
Natural Resources in Quebec stood before the media saying that discussions have
been ongoing for some time.
How do
you square that, Premier?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
How I
square that is simply, it wasn't Premier Ball that was mentioned in that media
outlet last night. It was former premiers. It was premiers. When officials from
the Government of Quebec made reference to me, they said they've had discussions
with the former premier. That is how this evolved.
I have
not had any discussions with Premier Couillard, the minister of Natural
Resources, accept to notify them that the notice of appeal would be going in;
however, if there's a deal to be had that will benefit Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians, I am prepared to have those discussions. Not on any conditions
around court challenges and so on. If there's a deal to be had that will benefit
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, the responsible thing to do is not get past
we learned from our history, but not to let our past inhibit and restrict where
we could be in the future, working with, not only the Province of Quebec, but
indeed the Government of Canada.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well,
media reports from Quebec indicate otherwise, because media reports from Quebec
specifically say that the Premier of Newfoundland names him, I won't name him,
Mr. Speaker, but names the Premier of Newfoundland has had discussions with
the premier of Quebec, Premier Couillard, for several months.
So is
the Premier saying that information that the minister is saying is wrong?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I'm
enjoying Question Period today, I would have to say.
First of
all, the first call ever made with Premier Couillard was to congratulate us on
taking government in our province. The second time was in Vancouver, when I met
him there. We talked about climate change. We talked about the economy at the
Council of the Federation. We met again in the Yukon, in Whitehorse, that was
about the Agreement on Internal Trade and how we would have free flow of
electricity through Quebec. There was one other call that was made after that
about the Agreement on Internal Trade. The last call I had with Premier
Couillard was to let him know we would be filing the notice of appeal. That is
the extent of the conversations I've had with Premier Couillard of Quebec this
year.
Not
related to anything, the fear mongering, the thing the former premier is talking
about today, that has not been the topic of our conversation; however, if
there's a deal to be had for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians that could benefit
our future, I'm willing to have that discussion.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I asked
the Premier a few moments ago, the CEO of Nalcor is on the record as saying he's
having discussions with Quebec. Are those discussions being done with your
blessing or without your knowledge?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The
discussions that the CEO of Nalcor would have with Quebec are related to a
one-third ownership in CF(L)Co with the operation of Churchill Falls. There's no
discussion between the CEO of Nalcor and Hydro-Quιbec or officials in Quebec
right now related to the Upper Churchill contract, Gull Island and so on. This
has been clarified this morning, I understand, in the media.
Mr.
Speaker, right now, the former premier is making suggestions and allegations
that things are going on that are simply not going on. I would argue to say that
the only discussions that have been had are the ones that occurred when he was
the former premier back in 2015.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
So, Premier: Are you saying
the discussions that the CEO of Nalcor had with Hydro-Quιbec at Muskrat Falls
were actually about the Upper Churchill? Is that what you're trying to say, it
had nothing to do with Muskrat Falls?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
They
were in town, as far as I understand, to deal with the CF(L)Co, and the first
time that they were there. I would also ask the former premier, what is wrong
with putting in place relationships where you can work with other provinces,
where you can I know they're not used to working with federal governments, or
not used to working with other provinces for that matter. What is wrong with
exploring options that we have available to us?
The CEO
of Nalcor right now as a matter of fact, it was a former CEO of Nalcor that I
would say said this, that if we were to explore and develop Gull Island the best
possible route would be through Quebec. These were his words under that
administration, I would say, Mr. Speaker.
So on
behalf of the people of our province, the responsible thing to do, if there's a
deal to be had, we will explore the options, but I will guarantee you one thing.
We will not sell out the future of our province. We will not impact rate payers,
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Premier,
I'll tell you what's wrong with having discussions with Quebec. I'll tell you
what's wrong with that. For 40 years Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have been
at the short end of the stick at the hands of Quebec.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
Premier, that's what the
problem is. For 40 years while Quebec received $20 billion, Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians received $1 billion. That's what's wrong with Quebec.
I'll
tell you what else is wrong, Premier. After effort after effort by previous
governments from all stripes to try and resolve the differences between Quebec,
they held us at our knees, Mr. Speaker, that's what happened. They held us to
our knees. They held us at ransom, because we never had any control. That's
what's wrong with talking to Quebec. And now they want us to give up legal
action so they can entertain discussions.
So I'll
ask you again, Premier: Will you commit here today to the people of Newfoundland
and Labrador not to abandon those legal actions just so you can have discussions
with Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Interestingly enough, we just heard a mouthful of rhetoric from the former
premier of our province. What he didn't say, Mr. Speaker, was this. The former
CEO of Nalcor, under his administration, they were having discussions with
Hydro-Quιbec; they were having that. What he didn't say is that in July of 2015
he had had discussions with Hydro-Quιbec. Interestingly enough, he doesn't want
to talk about those details.
The last
conversation I had with Premier Couillard was to let him know that notice of
appeal, appealing the court decision, that we were putting that in place. We're
obviously not abandoning that appeal, Mr. Speaker, or would not have made that
call. That's what I did.
Right
now if the conditions are right for a discussion that will benefit
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, I would say what would be wrong with actually
putting in place a program that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians finally would
get some benefit. It didn't happen under their administration I would say, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I've
provided the Premier with the details of the discussion I had with the premier
of Quebec. Just in case he didn't hear it, I'll provide it again. The premier of
Quebec wanted us to drop legal action so we could have a discussion. The only
way to have a discussion he said, drop the legal action, and I refused Premier.
That's what I did, I refused.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
That's the details of the
discussion we had.
Now I
just asked the Premier, Mr. Speaker, and I'll ask him again: Will you commit to
not ending the legal action against Quebec in order to have discussions with the
Province of Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well,
first and foremost, I haven't committed to even having a discussion when it
comes to any of the details. I don't know what the details or conditions would
be. But is he suggesting, is the former premier suggesting that we should not
talk to, not put options in place for the future of our province? Is that really
what he's talking about?
There
have been no conditions put on me. They haven't asked me, Mr. Speaker, what the
conditions would be. We're not even there yet.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Mr. Speaker, we should be
very concerned right now. We should be very concerned.
AN HON. MEMBER:
(Inaudible.)
MR. P. DAVIS:
The Member opposite doesn't
want to listen, but that's fine.
We
should be very concerned and the province should be very concerned, because
twice now I've asked the Premier a very straightforward question. Will he commit
not to end the legal action against Quebec, not to end the legal action that are
before the courts before having discussions with Quebec, and the Premier won't
answer it.
Now,
that's telling me that he's not committed to that. So I'll give him another
chance: Will the Premier commit to not ending that legal action? Will he commit
to not ending that legal action before having discussions with Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
Before I
recognize the Premier, I would remind all hon. Members I know this topic is
very important to the people of the province, but the only individual that I
wish to hear is the individual that has been recognized to speak.
The hon.
the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well,
it's obvious the former premier they were much further along in discussions
than we are as a government to actually lay that condition on the table. We're
nowhere close to that. We are nowhere near that, Mr. Speaker.
I
notified the premier about putting in a notice of appeal. I told him the notice
of appeal was going in. He didn't ask to take it off the table. Obviously, with
the notice of appeal that was going there, he saw that really as something that
would be more court work that would be required on his behalf, I would say, Mr.
Speaker.
Interesting enough, we are not that far along. I found out about this yesterday
in media reports, Mr. Speaker. The last conversation I had with the premier of
Quebec was to let him know that the notice of appeal was in. There are no
conditions on any of this. There have been no conditions on any discussion
papers because we do not have one.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It
sounds like there's a real difference now coming from the CEO of Nalcor, the
minister of Natural Resources for Quebec and the Premier of our province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
And we're left with now
having to try and decipher where the most accurate information is coming from.
To be honest with you, Mr. Speaker, we're not sure at this point in time. We're
really not sure at this point in time.
August
31 was a significant day in the history of the Upper Churchill when the 25-year
renewal kicked in.
I ask
the Premier: Did you have any discussions with the premier of Quebec prior to
that date?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The only
discussion I had prior to that was about the Agreement on Internal Trade. The
next discussion that I had was about the notice of appeal.
Interesting enough, though, I want to go back to the previous question that the
former premier asked when he said: Before you start negotiations with the
Province of Quebec, would you remove that condition? Why would I do that, take
an option off the table, Mr. Speaker?
We would
negotiate much better than that. We're not taking any options off the table that
we have on the future of our province. If there's a deal to be had I couldn't
even go there if there's even a deal to be had. But if there is a deal to be
had, it will be the right one. And I will guarantee you this, Mr. Speaker, it
will be much better than the deal that we have in place related to the Muskrat
Falls Project.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
If the
Premier is having discussions with the premier of Quebec about internal trade or
having discussions about matters of mutual interest such as their very
important, very valuable Labrador hydro assets, I ask the Premier: Why wouldn't
you raise the August 31 renewal? Why wouldn't you raise that with the premier of
Quebec if you're having those discussions?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I just
told the former premier that we were not having those discussions. We are not
having them even today. Put in the notice of appeal, Mr. Speaker; it was the
right thing to do to let them know that we were putting in that notice of
appeal.
I will
tell you this, Mr. Speaker, any deal that is struck in Newfoundland and Labrador
related to any hydro project or any project that will require a partnership
either with the federal Government of Canada or with other provinces, will be
the right one. Not just for the people of Newfoundland as the Island portion,
but it will also be for the Aboriginal indigenous people in Labrador. Something
they had glaringly left out in the last deal, I say.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I ask
the Premier: What discussions have you had with your federal cousins regarding
Labrador hydro assets?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I'm glad
to answer that question because we've had a number of discussions with our
federal colleagues. That's obviously a foreign discussion to the former
administration and the former premier. They were not used to having those types
of discussions.
But just
recently I guess it was in the news; I'm assuming that he noticed this there
was a $2.9 billion enhancement to the federal loan Guarantee and other relief on
the loan guarantee that was put in place. These were the only discussions that
we were having with the federal government related to hydro projects in
Labrador.
And I
would suggest, Mr. Speaker, these have been very successful negotiations and
discussions that we've had with our federal colleagues. And if in fact there's a
deal to be made where the federal government can come in and support
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in other projects, then that's a discussion
that we're willing to have too, I say, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I asked
the Premier a little earlier and I never got a clear answer, so I'm going to ask
this again: Is the new head of Nalcor operating with the full knowledge and
blessing of the Premier as he talks to Hydro-Quιbec about Muskrat Falls, the
Upper Churchill, and maybe they're talking about Gull Island as well is that
with the full blessing of you, Premier?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We work
very closely with the CEO of Nalcor and with the team at Nalcor for that matter,
Mr. Speaker. We talk on a regular basis. Right now, I'm guessing and I'm sure
that with any discussions that would be had related to the future of
Newfoundland and Labrador, that we would work closely on those.
If we
ever get to the point, which we're not we're not at that point, Mr. Speaker
where we're having those discussions about the contract renewal of the Upper
Churchill or Muskrat Falls or Gull Island Projects and so on, Mr. Speaker, yes,
we would expect the CEO, we would expect Nalcor and this government and, as a
matter of fact, with many people in Newfoundland and Labrador to be engaged with
those discussions.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
So Mr. Speaker, we know that
Mr. Marshall, Stan Marshall, is running Nalcor. We know that the Premier has
regular briefings from Judy Foote who really appears in many ways, by many
people's eyes, to be actually running the province.
So I ask
the Premier: Who is making the decisions about these talks with Quebec? Who is
making the decisions about the talks with Hydro-Quιbec and with the Quebec
government? Is it you making the decisions, the minister, or is it somebody
else?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, I
notice the former premier just did a fair amount of back tracking because when
he closed off his question he really wanted to say: or is somebody else. What he
was referring to, somebody else, would have been a regional minister, Minister
Judy Foote, who I would say and is doing a very good job (inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER BALL:
And I do sense in the tone of
his voice when he mentions Minister Foote there's a little bit of jealousy or
almost animosity. Is he suggesting that Minister Foote and I, as Premier of this
province, should not be working closely together? Is that what the former
premier is saying, that I should not be working with Minister Foote to get the
Marine Rescue Sub-Centre opened up, to get $100 million for the core science
building and the other federal programs that we brought, the loan guarantee, as
an example?
Are you
suggesting that Minister Foote and I should not be working together to benefit
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians? Is that your suggestion?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can
assure the Premier and Members opposite, there's no jealousy when it comes to
having good relations with either the federal government or with other
provincial governments.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
It's a good thing for
Newfoundland and Labrador to have good relations and I fully support having
those good relations.
If you
have relations with the Province of Quebec, which it appears the government
opposite is, in some kind of way, and working towards a deal and he says he
wants to have a deal. I ask the Premier: Will you commit, right here in the
House of Assembly today that if you are to reach any kind of an agreement with
Quebec, with you or your government or Nalcor, if you reach that with Quebec or
Hydro-Quιbec, will you first disclose the full deal to the people of the
province and bring that to our Legislature here in the House of Assembly for a
debate and ratification before it becomes binding with the Province of Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of
all, I just want to remind the former premier that on a Friday evening when he
came out of Prime Minister Harper's office, some of the words he sent home as
his message and his trip to Ottawa was: B'y, you can't trust that guy. It took
him a long time you can't trust Prime Minister Harper was his comments, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, we are a long ways from having any deal, any project, with Quebec or
with Nova Scotia or anywhere, but I can guarantee you what we will put in place
is a very open and transparent negotiation if we ever get there, and I premise
that by saying, we are not having discussions on the Upper Churchill contract or
Gull Island or Muskrat Falls for that matter or any other projects.
Mr.
Speaker, I hope for the benefit of our province and for the future of our
province that we can get in place productive deals that would benefit
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, but we're not there yet.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of the
Opposition.
MR. P. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I did go
to Ottawa and I met with the prime minister. What I did when I left his office
in his office and when I left the office I stood for Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians. That's what I did, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
I put Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians ahead of anybody else, especially the wishes of the prime minister
of the day. I have no regret for doing that, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. P. DAVIS:
The Premier has not answered
my question. My question is very simple: If he reaches a deal with Quebec, if
Nalcor or the government reaches a deal with
Quebec or with Hydro-Quιbec, will he disclose that deal to the people of
the province and bring that here to the Legislature for a full debate before it
becomes binding?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, I
can guarantee you now to the former premier I would say this, that I stand for
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians too. I stand for
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER BALL:
I will guarantee you this,
that I will always stand for what's in the best interest of Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians of all particular groups. Standing outside of some doorway in
Ottawa and saying you can't trust the Prime Minister Mr. Speaker, these are
words that we all remember. Mr. Speaker, they had no results, though. Let's not
forget, no results by those kinds of activities.
Mr.
Speaker, we will be open and transparent, if we ever get to the point where
there is something to discuss with our province. Mr. Speaker, we're not here
today to outline what that process would look like but if we ever get there, I
will guarantee you it will be very open and transparent.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for St.
John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Well,
the CEO of Nalcor said he wants to normalize relationships with Hydro-Quιbec
over the Upper Churchill contract and the Quebec premier has since signalled a
conciliatory approach to relationships with our province in connection with
Churchill Falls power.
I ask
the Premier, Mr. Speaker: Who's driving the discussions that Quebec has
reported, the government or Nalcor? That is if he knows who's really in control.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I
mentioned so many times during Question Period, there are no discussions being
had. I ask the Leader of the Third Party, what's wrong with normalizing
discussions or relationships with anyone? Is there something wrong with having a
normal relationship with any particular province, I say to the Leader of the
Third Party? Does she think everything must be abnormal to be successful? Is
that your definition of successful, be abnormal?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for St.
John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I want
good relationships with Quebec. I want things for this province, but I'm asking
the Premier: Will he tell the people of the province what exactly it is that
they want in speaking to Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
When we
have discussions with Quebec or with Nova Scotia or New Brunswick or Ontario or
if it's PEI, we enter into discussions in a very professional, very respectful
way, Mr. Speaker. That is the way we work.
As I
said, Mr. Speaker, we are not having discussions with Quebec. I've said this
over and over. The CEO of Nalcor or this government right now, at some point
if we ever get to the point where there are discussions that are ongoing with
any province, if it's Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI, Quebec or with the
federal government, Mr. Speaker, we hope that we can bring back benefits to
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We're not there yet, but there's nothing wrong
with pursuing opportunities for our province. Unless the Leader of the Third
Party thinks if she's willing to stand here today and say that these should
not happen, that we should not normalize relationships with any provinces. Is,
indeed, that where you are?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Member for St.
John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Whether
the discussions are formal or informal, I'm asking the Premier to tell the
people of this province: What's the connection with what's happening right now
with Quebec and Muskrat Falls?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
None at
all; there are no discussions with Quebec, either the province or Hydro-Quιbec,
related to Muskrat Falls. The last discussion that we had with Premier
Couillard, as I just mentioned, was about notice of appeal. I've said that quite
a few times. That is the last call that I've had with Premier Couillard. The
next opportunity that we will be getting together will be at the Council of the
Federation which will be occurring sometime early December of this year.
There's
no agenda set. There's no meeting set. When he gets back from where he is he's
travelling right now, but when he gets back I would imagine we'll reach out
again. There's no urgency here by us. There's no template, there's no schedule,
there's no agenda; nothing wrong with having relationships with any province.
There's no discussion on any deal.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Member for St.
John's Centre.
MS. ROGERS:
Mr. Speaker, yesterday the
Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour mused about indexing the
province's minimum wage, currently the lowest in Canada. The starting point for
indexing is critical. Since 2010, the cost of living, especially for food,
housing and other essentials, has gone up significantly.
Mr.
Speaker, I ask the minister: Will he commit to recovering this lost ground for
low-income workers as a starting point for indexing?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Minister of Advanced
Education, Skills and Labour.
MR. BYRNE:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
This
government is the first government to have reached out, to have received a
mandate from the people not only to continue minimum wage as a universal labour
standard, but as well this government received, for the first time was the
first government to actually ask for and receive a mandate to index minimum
wage. That implies an increase.
Mr.
Speaker, I've been able to reach out already to labour groups, to social
advocacy groups and to others to have a very broad, general discussion about
certain parameters about this, get their input. That's part of this discussion
of what the hon. Member has referred to on the floor of the House.
We'll be
making announcements based on those discussions, the discussions that we've had
internally, but most importantly, on the basis of a mandate we've already
received from the province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Member for St.
John's Centre for a very quick question.
MS. ROGERS:
Mr. Speaker, I ask the
minister: Will he hold a true review of minimum wage with real public
consultations and a public report, and when?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Minister of Advanced
Education, Skills and Labour for a quick response.
MR. BYRNE:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
We have
already received a strong mandate not only to maintain the minimum wage as a
universal labour standard but as well to index. That was a mandate that was
received by the people. It was the first time any government in Newfoundland and
Labrador has sought and received that mandate. We shall fulfill that mandate.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The time for Question Period
has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Tabling
of Documents.
Notices
of Motion.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government House
Leader.
MR. A. PARSONS:
Mr. Speaker, I give notice
and ask leave of the House to confirm the Member for Bonavista as a Member of
the Public Accounts Committee. This motion is seconded by the Minister of
Children, Seniors and Social Development.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
Does the
hon. Government House Leader have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER:
Leave.
MR. SPEAKER:
Okay. The motion is that the
Member for Bonavista be confirmed as a Member for the Public Accounts Committee.
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
Further
notices of motion?
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for St.
John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
To the
hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for St.
John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
What I'm
bringing forward is the requests of people of this province and I think we do
need respect for their words.
To the
hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS
Newfoundland and Labrador has the greatest percentage of the workforce earning
the provincial minimum wage in Canada with women, youth and those from rural
areas making up a disproportionate number of these workers; and
WHEREAS
the minimum wage does not provide enough money for the necessities of life
because a person earning minimum wage working 40 hours a week made between
$21,320 and $21,840 in 2015 which is barely above the low-income cut off of
$20,065 for St. John's and a working couple on minimum wage with two children
will also make close to low income; and
WHEREAS
nine provinces and territories will have a higher minimum wage than Newfoundland
and Labrador by May 2016;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House
of Assembly to urge government to legislate an immediate increase in the minimum
wage to restore the loss of purchasing power since 2010 and an annual adjustment
to the minimum wage beginning in 2016 to reflect the consumer price index.
And as
in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr.
Speaker, I bring forth this petition which people continue to send in to us here
in our offices. This one comes from people in St. John's and
I'd like to point out from an
area of the city where I think there a lot of people who are working for low
wages and minimum wage. People who are affected themselves.
Since
they sent this petition in to us, we now know that we are totally behind
everybody else in the country when it comes to what our minimum wage is since
October this petition was signed prior to May of 2016. We now know that we are
behind everybody else in this country and this is not acceptable. There was a
point at which we were up there at the top.
As I was
saying yesterday when I presented the petition from another group of people, Mr.
Speaker, there are those who oppose minimum wage saying that it's bad for the
economy. As I was pointing out yesterday, we have now on record many economists,
both in the US and in Canada hundreds of them, literally hundreds of
economists from all stripes. They aren't from political parties. They're from
all various stripes of economists when it comes to doing their analysis, so many
of them are saying that a higher minimum wage is good for the economy.
The one
I would like to quote, Mr. Speaker, is Joseph Stiglitz, who himself is a Nobel
Prize winner of economics who says,
the weight of evidence now showing that
increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the
employment of minimum-wage workers
.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Conception Bay East Bell Island.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. BRAZIL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the
hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland
and Labrador humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS
school-age children are walking to school in areas with no sidewalks, no traffic
lights, and through areas without crosswalks; and
WHEREAS
this puts the safety of these children at risk;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House
of Assembly to urge government to ensure the safety of all children by removing
the 1.6-kilometre busing policy where safety is a concern.
And as
in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr.
Speaker, as we all know, we do great amounts of work to ensure schools are safe.
We have to do equal amounts of work to ensure kids get to school safely. As we
know, particularly in some of the suburban and fast-growing communities here,
that were normally rural-oriented for the last 20 or 30 years, but in the last
decade have seen some substantial growth, yet still have areas where there's
very little shoulder, if any, there's a ditching area where the sightlines are
of question. These children, these students, need to be able to get to school in
a safe manner.
We have
a lot of infill over the last number of years with houses being built in
particular areas that obviously add to the demographics, the number of students
who are now walking, because they don't fit within that 1.6-kilometre busing
route.
I
realize, as the former minister of Transportation and Works, it would be tens of
millions, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars to be able to go fill in these
ditches, put culverts in, put sidewalks to ensure that our children are walking
in a safe manner and that the sightlines in those are improved. I understand
that's a work in progress.
It was
started through our administration. There's no doubt this administration will
continue to do what it can. But the immediate safety factor here and we hear
it from school councils, we hear it from parents, from kids themselves. We hear
about multitudes of close near misses, where children were at a safety factor
because a truck and a bus came where kids were on the shoulder and there was no
space for them.
In the
wintertime, with the ability of moving snow and having no areas to put it, kids
are walking in the middle of the roads. So what we're asking here is that there
has to be an investment in ensuring safety around the children that we put so
much of an investment in to ensure that their education is not second rate and
we've moved that to that level. Let's ensure their safety, in getting to that
institution, is not second rate.
So we're
asking through this petition and there's no doubt we'll continue this. I know
my colleagues will from both parties on this side of the House. I suspect it's
no doubt an issue with the Members on the government side also about safety,
about the 1.6 kilometres. It's not only in the urban and suburban areas; it's
also in the rural areas.
Kids
have to walk a certain distance, particularly in adverse weather conditions,
particularly around our drain areas and some of the other storm areas we run
into with shoulders and these types of things. So it's very easily alleviated by
changing the 1.6-kilometre bus policy and ensuring that we invest properly so
that we have a safe mechanism for children to be able to get to our school
system.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. Member for St.
John's Centre.
MS. ROGERS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the
hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS
government has once again cut the libraries budget threatening the closure of 54
libraries; and
WHEREAS
libraries are often the backbone of their communities, especially for those with
little access to government services, where they offer learning opportunities
and computer access; and
WHEREAS
libraries and librarians are critical in efforts to improve the province's
literacy levels which are among the lowest in Canada; and
WHEREAS
already strapped municipalities are not in a position to take over the operation
and cost of libraries;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House
of Assembly to urge government to keep those libraries open and work on a
long-term plan to strengthen the library system.
And as
in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr.
Speaker, we have incredibly well-educated, well-informed, committed, passionate
and compassionate librarians right across our province. They know the needs of
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. They have served their libraries well.
They know whether their libraries are working or not and they are in the employ
already of the government, of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, of the
department.
Yet,
this Department of Education has commissioned an accounting firm to check out
whether or not we need our libraries. And we know that the budget for that, the
bill for doing that is going to be over $200,000. But the people of the
communities intimately know whether or not their libraries are working. They
intimately what are the needs of their communities. They intimately know is the
literacy levels in their communities. They intimately know how their libraries
can best respond to the needs of their communities.
Yet,
what has this government done? Instead of engaging the expertise of the people
already hired and already serving the communities, they get an accounting firm
to figure out whether or not we need our libraries and how they should be
responding to the needs of our people.
Mr.
Speaker, that makes no sense at all. I'd like to say it's an absolute waste of
taxpayers' dollars. In fact, what should have been happening is that the people
again who are the experts on the ground, they were the ones who should be able
to assess what it is their libraries need to do in their communities, what are
the needs of their particular communities.
Does
this government not have any confidence in those who have the expertise, in
those who are on the ground, in those who are already well serving the people of
our communities? Does this government not trust them, not have any confidence in
what they're doing? Instead, they hire an accounting firm.
Mr.
Speaker, I don't know what else there is to be said about that.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
Orders of the Day
Private Members'
Day
MR. SPEAKER:
It being Private Members'
Day, I call on the Member for Virginia Waters Pleasantville to present your
private Member' motion.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. B. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I'm very
pleased to rise in this hon. House to bring forward the private Member's
resolution here today.
WHEREAS
the upgrading and development of road infrastructure is of paramount importance
to the economic future of Newfoundland and Labrador; and
WHEREAS
the traditional approach to road construction has led to momentous traffic
backups, delays and frustration for citizens, tourists and businesses alike; and
WHEREAS
it can be shown that nighttime paving will significantly reduce the negative
impacts of road construction through traffic slowdowns and travel delays:
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House supports the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador initiative to implement a pilot project early in 2017
which uses nighttime paving as its primary method for completing the work.
This is
moved by the Member for Virginia Waters Pleasantville and seconded by the
Member for Harbour Grace Port de Grave.
In
The
Way Forward document, Mr. Speaker,
there were specific items addressing the possibility of introducing nighttime
paving programs in this province. The action plan outlines in broad themes,
which stated categorically that we will improve the provincial road networks. I
quote: Our Government will take several measures to enhance planning and
decision making for road projects and to improve information sharing with the
public and other stakeholders.
It also
affords us the chance to look at things in a different way. Good governance
means innovatively delivering services to the public by trying new things and
figuring out whether or not these new things will work. By taking a different
perspective on the issue, we give ourselves a benefit of choice. I think that is
important to note as we begin debate on this resolution.
I'm
particularly excited to speak to this resolution as a former city councillor in
the City of St. John's, as those of us who worked in municipal councils and
municipal politics there are many of us around the table here today
understand the concerns that are expressed by constituents that disruptions of
roadwork and paving can present.
The big
issue for constituents in the major centres, not just in major centres but in
rural Newfoundland as well or rural parts of our province is huge testing ways
that our current paving schedules could be improved is vital if we're expecting
to deliver services to the people of the province in a better way.
The
Way Forward indicates this: In the
first six months, we will: Adopt multi-year planning and early tendering of
roadwork. In fact, we intend to release a full list of road projects for the
coming year in January 2017. This has never been done before. Call of Action
1.22 calls for the release of tender for a nighttime road construction project
in January 2017. This, too, has never been done before.
The
Way Forward document addresses
the need for innovation in all sectors of our economy. This is just one example
of the province looking not only to diversify the way we do things, but to
better the economy and have better
outcomes in the operations of
this service. If we can come up with an innovative way to invest in road
infrastructure, while also reducing some of the irritants of constructions like
travel delays and lost time, why would we not engage in this activity or this
pilot project?
For
years we have heard the complaints, people complaining about the times of delays
and time tie-ups associated with seasonal roadwork and upgrading. It has long
been an accepted fact in our communities that in order to get this major
roadwork done, we have to suffer through delays and the frustration associated
with these delays.
No one
will forget the long delays with the upgrading that took place outside Gander
this year the hon. Member for Gander in front of me know it all too well or
trying to navigate through Terra Nova National Park this summer. I can recall
one day last summer when people were delayed well over two hours and took these
complaints to social media as well as radio outlets to ensure that the rest of
the public and government all were well aware of the issues they were facing
there.
These
delays at the height of our construction and tourism seasons have a major
impact. We often don't think about these impacts and how they affect the lives
of people, but think about it today when we're making this decision here to try
this pilot project.
There
are not very many ways to get around our province in every area. Not everyone
has the ability to charter flights or hire a ship, although I'm sure we could
try to ask the hon. Member for Conception Bay East Bell Island to see if he
can find us a couple of ships.
Most
folks, whether they're travelling to visit friends or relatives, or travelling
across for work or delivering of goods or for medical care, they have to take
the roads through our beautiful, scenic province. That effectively means that
the flow of people around this place, from place to place around our province is
affected by construction bottlenecks. In places like Terra Nova National Park,
where there is only one way through, those bottlenecks can back up traffic for
miles and, in turn, hours.
AN HON. MEMBER:
The good District of Terra
Nova.
MR. B. DAVIS:
The great District of Terra
Nova.
Tourism
operators find this very challenging as well because their clients that are
trying to attend their particular areas get stuck in these tie-ups and miss
their appointments, or don't get to experience the full value of their areas
that they're planning on attending. It's not really fair to these individuals.
Tourism
is one of our greatest economic success stories of the last two decades. Our
communities have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps that have been
devastated by the cod fishery closure and created a billion-dollar industry.
That's the best of what Newfoundland and Labrador spirit is. It's a declaration
that when we're faced with adversity, we'll find ways to get around that. We can
innovate. We find the creative solutions.
The
tourism industry has absolutely transformed rural Newfoundland and our province,
but the operators of these tourist operations need roads for their clients and
customers to travel over in order to reach these beautiful tourist sites. Now as
our clients have to travel through bottlenecks caused by road construction
delays, it can harm the operator's reputation or the feelings these tourist have
when they come visit our province.
I think
our role as government is to create the ideal conditions for business to operate
in. That, more than anything else, is what a government is supposed to be doing
to help industry succeed. So if we've tried out this innovative approach to road
paving and we found out that it had merit and it helped ease some congestions on
the roads and some of the problems our residents are facing, that's an example
of good governance. Improving on the existing way of doing things is exactly
what our role as a government should be.
We don't
have it within our power to haul tourists and show them a great time, that's
what the very skilled operators in our province do. But one thing we do have the
power to do is the ability to make it easier for tourists to traverse our
province and get around. This initiative we're debating here today, if it's
successful, will do exactly that.
For this
reason, I'm very happy to speak in favour of this resolution. This sort of
innovative solution, oriented approach to the challenges we are facing in
Newfoundland and Labrador has been and will be a key strength for our
administration. Newfoundland and Labrador needs innovative thinking and
outside-the-box approaches now more than ever.
People
with doctor's appointments and emergency cases all slow down because of delays
caused by road construction. That's an obvious health and safety issue. It is
one that causes concern for many people who live in rural Newfoundland that
might be travelling longer distances for medical appointments. The measures
needed to fix ailing infrastructure can result in traffic congestions and delays
and cost people to miss appointments or make it difficult for someone in need of
emergency care.
So if we
can implement a way of doing things that cuts down on the amount of time that
people have to traverse over our roads and be tied up in construction areas, I
think we should at least try to see if it can work.
Forcing
people to sit in their cars idling away while waiting for construction equipment
to clear the roads is frustrating for business operators trying to meet
deadlines, and citizens who are trying to make their appointments. I think we're
going to have a perfect opportunity to have others here talk today about this
initiative, and hopefully we can have a cross-aisle appeal. This is a very good
initiative that I think at least we could look at the options of trying to make
it work.
Thank
you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Conception Bay South.
MR. PETTEN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, following up to this private member's motion by the hon. Member for
Virginia Waters Pleasantville, I note they're bringing it in as a pilot
project for 2017.
Night
construction was a talked about issue when my colleague from Conception Bay East
Bell Island was Minister of Transportation and Works. I know there were a lot
of issues being in CBS, it was a huge issue. It became a big issue in my
district because construction was happening on Pitts Memorial Drive and there
was huge traffic congestion. As anyone who knows in CBS, the routes, that's the
main artery out of the town. There was a lot of pushback at the time, and the
media, the open line shows were pretty busy. A lot of people were frustrated,
which I can understand. Everyone has places to go and lead busy lives.
Anyway,
my colleague had spoken about this issue on numerous occasions. As the former
administration there, there was no opposition to doing this but there were a lot
of concerns. I assumed that by proposing this private member's motion of a pilot
project, I guess that's probably a good way to go forward to see what issues may
arise from doing something like this.
There
are things that I think need to be considered, even as we move forward. I think
we'll bring it to light, some of the issues that we feel are important, and we
had discussed ourselves. The number one concern that jumps out at me is safety.
Night
construction; I've witnessed night construction in other down in the US it's
quite common, and other places throughout Canada, as far as I know. Safety is a
huge you can't stress the importance of safety. As we know, we had a couple of
fatalities within the Department of Transportation and Works, which were quite
tragic; one on the Outer Ring Road and one on the West Coast, which was affected
by a flag person. Those happened in daylight, Madam Speaker.
We're
talking about nighttime construction. So you can go down safety is an issue,
you can go down with a lot of angles on that. You bring out lighting, so are you
going to have flags people? Will there be flags people? What's the lighting like
there? Will you have activated traffic lights during the nighttime? Personally,
I think it's a big safety feature with having a flag person, a man stood up with
a sign in the dark. Natural light is so important.
Artificial lighting, there are problems with that, especially when you're on the
highways doing this type of work. There are a lot of benefits to it, obviously.
You're doing it at a lower as proponents of nighttime construction will tell
you, you're doing it with less traffic congestion. Obviously, it's nighttime,
you're not going to have the same issue of congestion. Depending on how close
residential homes are, of course, you're going to run into the case of noise.
Noise is always a factor that people have concerns about.
Another
thing, too, it's a different dynamic when you're looking at those road projects.
Contractors operate their asphalt plants usually during a 12-hour day. They
probably fire it up at 5 o'clock in the morning, which is a two-hour affair from
my knowledge of it. They run it until dark pretty much. A lot of those asphalt
plants now would be probably running around the clock. That's a cost which
actually will go on to the contract. So I guess value for money. Will you get
the same bang for your buck, so to speak, Madam Speaker?
I
believe, if I'm not mistaken, when my colleague was minister that was something
that was discussed about a lot, was the cost. Roughly, there could be a 20 per
cent increase in costs associated with that because you have your own staff
people, too. You're doing nighttime construction; it's outside of their hours.
So you have staffing issues within the department, to have inspectors, engineers
out there to oversee these projects, whether that be overtime or hiring
additional staff.
It's
like everything, there's an increased cost. Probably the number one thing for
me, safety has to be the number one issue. I know in the department there has
been a lot of work put into creating a safer environment based on a couple of
tragedies. In that department, TW in general, throughout that department it's
more I used to say when I was there, you didn't feel like you were in a
government department. You felt like you were in an engineering firm. There were
project management teams everywhere. There were more going around with work
boots than suits. It was interesting that way.
The only
fear and I say this pretty well from my own personal experience. When I heard,
a couple of years back, when people started pushing about nighttime
construction, based on what was happening, construction was in my district.
Safety, and I don't know how you I suppose during the daytime, a bright sunny
day, I suppose you can never make everything 100 per cent safe, but I do believe
that has to be the driving force with nighttime construction. Make it as safe as
possible.
Artificial lights are only so good. I have seen construction projects where
they've used the lighting, but most of the ones I've seen, the roads were
actually closed off. There was no moving traffic through those areas. Traffic
was diverted. So they just had a workspace that was lit. Around here, we don't
have that luxury. If you're getting on the Outer Ring Road, or any of our busy
roads and you're putting artificial lights up to do paving that, to me, is a
concern.
Another
issue too, anyone who is familiar with asphalt, is temperatures. You've got an
ideal temperature. If I'm not mistaken, dry and above 12 degrees Celsius is
meant to be anything above that is good for when you lay asphalt for tack
coats, the technicalities of it, for joins, cold joins and whatever. You got to
have appropriate temperatures to get a good coating of asphalt down, one that is
going to last.
I have
some information, but a lot of studies have shown that nighttime, obviously, the
temperatures drop even during the summertime. Above 12 degrees is optimal. We
know that a lot of our summer nights you're hoping you're above that, but you
are running that risk.
There
was one area where it was in the study there they based it on from three to
30 months after nighttime construction of asphalt compared to daytime, and the
quality of asphalt deteriorated much quicker. There were several studies done
proving this from nighttime to daytime. So a lot of that, no doubt, had to do
with the difference in temperatures from day to night.
Again,
as I say, I think it's a great concept. I think it's a great idea to do this, to
run this pilot project, but there are a lot of issues that I think need to
brought to light, which is what I'm trying to do now.
Another
issue, Madam Speaker, is your workforce. These are things you all think about,
but on the flip side of it, I guess the department needing extra staff, you're
looking at the contractors that are working on these jobs supplying the asphalt.
I mean, you can't control the hours that those people work because contractors
are out to optimize whatever dollars they can from a contract.
That's
something I guess within the department, they have their pre-start-up meetings
and whatnot with contractors. It's very important that staff get the proper rest
periods because not all there are a lot of great contractors out there and I
know a lot of them actually. I have several big companies that live in my
district so I won't be on record as criticizing them.
I
understand that they have to make a living too. Staffing is always an issue,
truck drivers and equipment operators and that. So you may have put an added
cost on them. And if the added cost can't be absorbed, you may get people
working excessive hours in order to do this nighttime work in addition to what
they'll be doing during the daytime, because from my knowledge daytime
construction, paving won't stop. I'm sure big projects you might try to convert
it to nighttime to get it done quicker; that's something I think will work. I
think you'll have both of it with the nighttime picking it up and getting it
done twice as fast.
I guess
another problem and it brings us to we're only a population of a half a
million people. I realize that a quarter million and probably more live on the
Avalon Peninsula. It's always an interesting point that I find how impatient
society has become. You get road construction on one of your main arteries and
the Twitter world and VOCM Back Talk
and Open Line are full of people
complaining about the contractors. Yet, if they're driving through roads that
are full of ruts and potholes, they're on about that too. In actual fact, within
a week or 10 days most of these jobs are done and over with and they're gone.
I do
understand that people get frustrated and that's the lives we all live, but I
always find that kind of curious to me. It's different if this is going to be
tore up for six months, but most times this might be a week or two and you go
with your patch and grind work.
So in
keeping with today's society and the fast-moving, busy lives people live, it's
an interesting approach. It's one that, like I say, me and my colleague did
discuss. He spoke publicly on it numerous times and it was a lot of
consideration being given within the department. But there were a lot of, I
suppose, concerns that we probably never ever really got to because it was kind
of talked about and the concept was being debated as for trying to implement it,
like we're doing now, for a pilot project for next year, obviously it takes a
couple of years to kind of rationalize. You have to talk to your construction
associations and whatnot and get buy-in from all of them because that is another
issue too.
Another
question too is: Will contractors do this? That's the question. They don't have
to. If they do it, they're going to do it at a premium. So when I get back the
value for money you have a $10 million job that if you do it in the daytime,
you're going to get $10 million of the work. If you do it in the nighttime, you
might only get $8 million. Is that the best value for money because you don't
want to frustrate drivers during the daytime? They're going to be late getting
home from work or they're going to be delayed getting somewhere or it causes a
lot of congestion and frustration. What is it?
I know
the Minister of Transportation pointed out, during the last sitting, if he had a
billion dollars he'd get every road done in the province. Well, I guess that's
the question you toss in your mind now. In the meantime, we're not going save a
billion dollars at this or save a billion, but are you getting the best bang for
your buck? As we all know, bad roads are a lightning rod and getting them paved
is usually very important to people. Many commuters on our busy roads want a
decent road to drive one.
So are
you getting the best value for money with this nighttime construction if you
have to pay an extra 20 per cent? That's $200,000 on $1 million worth of
asphalt. In today's economy and today's construction world, you're not getting
very far on $1 million worth of asphalt. It's a sad statement. At one time that
used to do a lot of pavement, but it does not anymore.
We
support this pilot project, obviously. We thought it was a good idea, but there
are a lot of areas of concern that I hope, before it's implemented, the minister
and his staff work out.
I can't
overemphasize the importance of safety. Safety has to be paramount with this
because I have a lot of concerns. At one time in my previous life, a long, long
time ago, I worked in construction. There was a gentleman who was the flag
person on the job and we worked after dark. It was dusk actually. It was just
coming on dark. It's kind of a sad story actually. The foreman gave me the
cheques. He said can you give Johnny his cheque. I turned around to give him his
cheque, I got about five feet away from him and his hard hat hit me in the back
of the leg. He got ran over by a tandem dump truck and died two days later.
On a
very personal note, that's the equivalent of a nighttime construction. Obviously
not in the same environments of which you have artificial light, but there are a
lot of dangers working in construction in the daytime, let alone nighttime.
That's
my only message: caution and concern. I want to be on record as saying that I
really believe, and I have no doubt, that the department will take before they
implement something like this, that it will be their guiding principle.
Other
than that, like I said, we do generally support it. If it means getting more
roads paved and getting it done in a hassle-free manner, we're all for it.
Thank
you, Madam Speaker.
MADAM SPEAKER:
The Speaker recognizes the
hon. Member for Harbour Grace Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MS. P. PARSONS:
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I'm just
waiting for my light to come on so you guys can hear and of course our listeners
at home. Here we are.
Thank
you, Madam Speaker.
Well,
it's certainly a pleasure to stand here and to second this motion or our pilot
project. But to respond, actually, to my hon. colleague across the House there,
the Member for CBS, he made mention would contractors be on board with this.
They have the option of not doing it. We happen to know for a fact that the
Heavy Civil Association that represents companies and their suppliers, who have
built infrastructure throughout our province, supports this initiative. So there
we are.
I'll put
the question out there. How many of us have travelled across the province,
whether it be this summer or in years past, or on our Trans-Canada Highway here
just on the Avalon Peninsula and we've been delayed. I've been delayed many
times, actually, going back and forth from my great District of Harbour Grace
Port de Grave to the Confederation Building here in St. John's. We've had to
spend a lot of time just sitting there in traffic.
Sometimes, if you're not anticipating this, we're not always aware that there
are traffic delays on the road. I was held up for I was over an hour late,
actually, for an appointment. So I'll put that question to us. How many of us
have experienced the frustration of traffic delays during daytime, especially
during the summer hours in our summer season when this construction is carried
out.
I also
took the initiative to consult with some constituents on their opinion on this
in the strong District of Harbour Grace Port de Grave which I represent, of
course. Nighttime operations are certainly not a new idea. We know it's done in
other jurisdictions and it has been for some time, though it certainly would be
a first for my District of Harbour Grace Port de Grave and throughout our
province.
We've
seen it in other areas in the execution of the construction activity performed
after regular business hours, after the evening commute, when many people are
trying to make their way home after a long day and after the daylight hours. We
know for a fact that there certainly will be less traffic on the road, which
could definitely increase the safety of these workers.
There
have been incidents where fatalities have resulted. We know this happened just
recently here in the St. John's area. So as a result and this is due to
speeding motorists looking to get home after their day at work and not adhering
to posted reduced speed limits and other warnings.
This
also provides a benefit to the public as a whole where construction activity
would not delay commuters getting home after work. Summertime, as we know, can
be hot. It has been rare in our province, but lately we've been experiencing
some good, hot weather in our province. We have had some high temperatures over
the past few years. Extreme heat can also have an impact on the health and
well-being of our construction workers, whether it's a flag person standing with
little activity or an operator performing physical demanding tasks.
Nighttime operations can address these potential health risks. Construction
traffic itself will have increased flexibility and mobility at work sites and
improve logistics in moving materials. Cost-saving results from efficiency
improvements due to the reduction of logistic issues, public traffic, et cetera
should also be noted here.
In
today's economy, in the attempt to address maintenance issues for all our
constituents, savings and costs and execution time is second only to
above-mentioned safety. Of course, this should come only to the above-mentioned
safety concerns. Safety is first, as our colleagues mentioned. That is obviously
my concern as an MHA and I would safely say it's everybody's concern here, every
MHA.
Should
an accident occur requiring medical assistance to be mobilized at the site, the
reduced traffic at nighttime would allow an easy path for medics to reach the
injured person.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MS. P. PARSONS:
Hear, hear!
Also,
after doing some research in going through this, nighttime temperatures, as I
mentioned, are better for construction workers to work and to be even more
productive. Night work helps our local businesses.
We have
an active cruise ship industry here in our province in our great Port of St.
John's. Due to the heavy construction carried out in our summer season,
businesses are shut down and this is a loss of revenue. It also doesn't really
put up the welcome mat when we have visitors from across the world visiting our
port here in St. John's, for example, when those cruise ships come in. Nighttime
would certainly help our local businesses.
When
construction work is being completed near a business, nighttime is best.
Construction work can block off an entire section of a road and parking lots
affecting business profit. Nighttime work is certainly better when most
businesses are closed.
Fewer
cars on the road mean less traffic for the work zones. As well, a well-lit area
is easier for drivers to see. It has been proven in other jurisdictions that it
works. It works in Nova Scotia; it's worked in Prince Edward Island, Ontario
and, of course, around North America.
In
closing I will say, according to Bill Rieken, a paving application specialist:
In the equipment world, nighttime paving has been in practice in various parts
of North America for over 30 years now. My colleague for Fogo Island Cape
Freels is excited about this topic, I can see. Nighttime paving has been in
practice in part of North America for over 30 years now, so, many decades. It is
established, continually expanding and certainly not going away.
I want
to applaud our Department of Transportation and Works for introducing this pilot
project in our province so we can first see the measure and measure the
outcomes. Our pilot project will allow for some real evidence gathering as to
whether or not this will work for a long-term basis here in our jurisdiction of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
We all
know the Trans-Labrador Highway could certainly benefit from this.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MS. P. PARSONS:
I'll also speak for Harvey
Street in the Town of Harbour Grace which is the Conception Bay Highway and is
the jurisdiction of the province. Anybody who has taken a drive through Harbour
Grace in the past number of years, it's clear to see that Harvey Street has been
neglected for many, many years throughout the Town of Harbour Grace.
I'll
compare it to Mario Kart. Is anybody here familiar with Mario Kart, the Nintendo
64 game? A child of the '80s, of course Nintendo, I'm a big fan. Driving on
Harvey Street in Harbour Grace is like playing Mario Kart because there are so
many obstacles to avoid, from potholes and broken infrastructure in the road.
Maybe nighttime paving would allow us to get these jobs done and to get them
done faster.
As I
mentioned, it will give us the real opportunity to gather the evidence, whether
or not this will work. Here are some things that we have to determine. Will
nighttime paving mean safer paving? A well-lit, timed construction area will
easily be identified from further away by out coming drivers. Will that slow
quicker and make the work area safer? There will be a lot less traffic at night
so the number of stops and starts for construction teams should improve
productivity. They will not have to stop everything every few minutes to allow
the flow of traffic. We can all attest to that.
The
children are going back to school in September which is the height of the
construction season. It can be pretty frustrating. If you have to be some place
for 9 o'clock, in some areas you should leave by 7:30 o'clock in order to get
there on time. We've all been held up.
It's
constituents who call me with these concerns. It's also said to increase road
rage. Has anyone ever experienced road rage? Our viewers at home, my colleagues
here on either side of the House, it gets frustrating. It's said that drivers
are different behind the wheel as they would be if you meet somebody in person.
That is a major concern.
Will
nighttime paving result in more paving being carried out? Well, I sure hope so.
I sure hope to see that carried out in the District of Harbour Grace Port de
Grave, throughout our Conception Bay Highway, and I will say again on Harvey
Street in Harbour Grace. Or will it take longer to do because of limited
lighting? Well, we do know that we will have the lighting.
Again,
pollution, we have idling cars to consider when you're stuck there in that
traffic for sometimes as long as 40 minutes. Anybody travelling through the
great Terra Nova Park district, every year construction is ongoing there and
you're held up; look no further than the Trans-Canada Highway here on the Avalon
Peninsula just this past summer, the Outer Ring Road. This affects constituents,
residents from all across the Avalon and all across the province.
I have a
number of commuters in the District of Harbour Grace Port de Grave who leave
every morning to drive in from Bay Roberts or Harbour Grace or Upper Island Cove
or Spaniard's Bay to make their way to St. John's. It will affect people getting
home to their family at nighttime sitting there. It will contribute to the air
pollution.
So I
certainly would agree to this pilot project, and I hope all of our hon.
colleagues will certainly agree to it as well and vote in favour of this motion.
It's done in other jurisdictions. Excuse the pun, but we are behind the ball on
this one with regard to our nighttime construction. We're on the ground. Let's
try it, let's see if this works.
I would
encourage all hon. colleagues here to certainly vote in favour of this motion.
Indeed, it is a pleasure to second this motion. So let's see it happening and
we'll see, and we'll wish those professionals, of course, who carry out this
work a safe workplace. We wish them all the best and we look forward to this
now, this coming spring this year.
Thank
you, Madam Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MADAM SPEAKER:
The Speaker recognizes the
hon. Member for Conception Bay East Bell Island.
MR. BRAZIL:
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
It's
indeed a privilege to stand and speak to this private Member's resolution today.
I'll start the same way I'm going to end, by thanking the Member for Virginia
Waters Pleasantville for presenting this and telling him that I will
wholeheartedly be supporting this. That's the way I will end it at the end also,
but I'll also outline as to why.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. BRAZIL:
I will outline exactly why.
There's no doubt the conversations here have been totally and will continue to
be around mitigating some of the concerns that everybody would have regarding
doing nighttime paving or nighttime construction of any level, particularly as a
pilot.
There's
no doubt, I have the full confidence in the department and the minister that
they'll carve out a project that they can test all the potential scenarios they
may run into so that they're cognizant of being able to say if this is going to
be on a go-forward basis, how we address safety, how we address the additional
costing, how we address the impact it may have if it's in a closer residential
area from a noise perspective, how we're going to be able to address the
additional piece of equipment that the contractors and that may have.
I like
the concept that it's coming as a pilot. When I served as minister of
Transportation and Works, one of the key things that I realized, and perhaps the
one thing that I got the most adverse pushback from the general public, was
around construction, but particularly around paving in the middle of the summer
or particularly early to mid-September when people for some reason traffic;
people think it's the summer. We found traffic seems to increase in that
separate September to 1st of October months. The minister can attest. His data
would show the same thing.
What I
did realize at the end of the day, people no doubt I guess our attention spans
and our patience are limited than they would have been before because we're
always in a hurry. There are so many things that are happening for a family
having to be somewhere, for medical appointments, for your doctors'
appointments, for contractors moving whatever product they have wherever they're
going. When we only have so many arteries coming into major centres, it has an
impact.
Unfortunate for me at the time, but fortunate for the travellers afterwards,
there was some major work that had to be done on the Outer Ring Road
particularly, and the CBS Bypass road. What I inherited when I took over as
minister was two major bridge projects. When you get into bridges, everything
comes to a stop. It's not even about routing one lane around. At times, you
actually literally have to stop and back up.
When
you've got 10,000 to 15,000 to 20,000 cars coming from CBS and 10,000, or 15,000
or 20,000 coming from Mount Pearl or 20,000, or 30,000 or 40,000 coming out of
the city at any given time, you get congestion, you get backups and you get
people very irritable, people late for scheduling and that. So that adds to the
confusion. Then you get the contractors who are on edge because there are cars
coming on particularly a lane that's set for one inside lane, are taking the
outside lane. Then you have the RNC that has to step up patrol. So it does have
a major impact when you do it in heavy traffic volume areas, no doubt.
So I'm
happy to see there's a pilot going to be put in play. Hopefully it will be
around no doubt I have confidence it will be somewhere where it has that
collaborative approach and that medium between where we have some heavy
congestion, but where we also have an ability to moderate and modify exactly
what we're doing as we go through it.
The
previous speaker had mentioned the Heavy Civil. I remember meeting with the
Heavy Civil. At the time, it was a big blow-up. It was September, we were 80 per
cent into our contracts and the general public and that became a big issue
about nighttime paving.
We met,
and no doubt, everybody agreed we'd love to be able to get to it. Mid-season you
weren't able to do it. We did talk about some of the restrictions and we
obviously had to get on and defend why we couldn't just change midstream what we
were doing. We talked about the concerns. The concerns are still there, but in a
pilot they can be addressed in a modified process so that you ensure safety is
the key component there, and you ensure you get your best bang for your dollar.
I was
fortunate enough to be able to travel to other jurisdictions to have a look at
this. Had we formed government, and had I been asked to be the minister of
Transportation, it's one of the things that I wanted to move forward because it
does have an impact on our tourism. It has an impact on our business community.
It has an impact on people's day-to-day lives. But you wanted to ensure you had
that balance of safety, the equitable investment and the quality of the job that
is being done.
There is
a process. Other jurisdictions have found ways to do it. It's not as simple as
people think just because you come in and do it. They do it in downtown
Montreal. I remember going and looking at it and getting a reality check that,
well, 95 per cent of downtown Montreal is not there in the nighttime. From a
lighting point of view, all you could see, it's like daytime down there because
of the natural buildings. I said I can't compare that to what we would do in
Newfoundland and Labrador, so you have to find other places.
Nova
Scotia and New Brunswick had found ways where they're doing nighttime paving on
the arteries outside of the cities so that they could still have an area where
it wasn't disruptive to residential areas. You're bringing in generators for
artificial lighting; you're also bringing in equipment at all different times of
the night as part of that process.
So they
did it and I followed up on some of the information. The data looked like this
could be workable. I'm glad to see that the minister and his department have
taken it, and that the Member for Virginia Waters is putting this forward,
because there are merits in what we're doing here for the betterment of people.
There's no doubt a whole collaborative approach on how we do these things and
how we make them work. I do remember sitting with the officials in the
department and having a full dialogue about what are the best ways that we move
forward.
The best
way to move forward and I know the minister has done this is engage the
industry because the industry has to be prepared for it. Sometimes they can
modify their workforce. There's specialized training that they may have to do
with them. There's giving their own employees an opportunity to say, look,
unfortunately I can't work nighttime, I have responsibilities for my family in
other ways. So you want to make the industry family friendly also.
So doing
it as a pilot and getting it out there, you give the industry an opportunity to
adjust accordingly their schedules and the way they do things. It gives them an
opportunity now to look at other jurisdictions who may have modified a piece of
equipment that can make this more efficient, make it safer, make it be more
beneficial and make it show that at the end of the day, the real data would
clearly tell us whether or not this can be the way we go forward on 10 or 20 or
50 or 800 or 90 per cent of the contracts that we put out there.
You
know, I do want to outline that people say nighttime; we'll do this if we're in
some small community where there are 10 cars a day. That wouldn't be the intent.
I'm confident that the Member who put this forward, we weren't talking about
that level, that you would spend 20 or 30 per cent more just to give that
privilege that people wouldn't have to wait two or three minutes when they're
putting a culvert in and digging before they pave the road, these type of
things. So there's a balance there.
The
balance is around in heavy congested areas or in areas where there's going to be
a big tear up and it's going to be a big inconvenience for people or have a
disruption around businesses, particularly businesses that operate in the
daytime. It's very important to be able to do that.
I know
the City of St. John's is grappling with how they're going to deal with some of
the things when they get into construction in the city itself. They have a
unique situation. They have as much business in the daytime as they do in the
nighttime, so there may be a medium there that they are going to have to come up
with.
I do
remember and I say this tongue-in-cheek, but it was funny. Anybody who's a
minister would know you don't make it as a minister until Kevin Tobin gives you
a cartoon and he puts it in The
Telegram. Well, my first cartoon was
all about the nighttime paving issue. He had a beautiful caricature of me. He
called it NyQuil and it was all about how you get rid of the congestion, wake
up, all these type of things. It sort of said Brazil will drink this, it would
make all of his problems go away when it came to nighttime paving. So it was a
good tongue-in-cheek process, but the issue was still there.
We could
say we were going to add additional contractors to try to speed the process up,
but for the period of time that the contractors were in play, it had a major
impact on people's ability to travel, meet their scheduling needs. It did have
an impact on certain businesses. We heard that.
We had a
couple of businesses at times threaten they were going to sue us for lost
revenues. I understood their frustration. You would try to go back and explain
this is the process we have, this is how it's played out for the last 70 or 80
years that we've been doing paving in this province. But we are open to looking
at new ways of doing it and we had to have dialogue with the industry and we had
looked at other jurisdictions.
Again,
the fact that we're moving to this level, no doubt, us on this side will be
supporting that. We see this as a great next step, the next step in improving
how we do things in Newfoundland and Labrador. You'll find on this side that
we're very open to trying new innovative ways.
Sometimes you have to try something and realize, oh, we have to modify it, and
maybe we have to take another approach to it. But this is a good first step, and
no doubt I would think it would be welcomed by the construction industry
themselves, it would be welcomed by the municipalities that are going to have to
deal with it. It also would be welcomed by other jurisdictions because there are
businesses in other areas that may want to come in here and be able to offer
their expertise to help out. So there's an ability here to develop some good
partnerships between existing businesses here.
And this
may become a niche where local companies because don't forget, the terrain in
Newfoundland and Labrador and some of the environmental challenges that they
face, would make us better to do a multitude of things anywhere else in this
world. Because once we manage to modify how we do that and our workforce is
second to none when it comes to skill set then who knows. Maybe then, this
becomes a spinoff business because we've now been able to compete in
jurisdictions where paving is done in the nighttime.
So there
are other types of times when in our jurisdiction here maybe it's too late in
the season or too early in the season for us to get started. These trained
people can go work for other contractors for a period of time and then come on
back when we're ready to do it. So there are all kinds of benefits here that can
be done. Before it couldn't be done because our workers weren't familiar with
nighttime paving, didn't have the understanding of how you operate a piece of
equipment in pure darkness on the side of a road or in the middle of a street on
one of our main thoroughfares. So there are some other positive things that can
come out of this, there's no doubt about it.
The
thing I like again about this is that it's a new innovative approach to things.
It's sort of think outside of the box because if you said it before, there are
times and I don't mind saying that I had to try to justify why we couldn't do
it. We use all of our standard things; it's about safety and cost overrun and
noise congestion and all these things around those types of things. But, at the
end of the day, there's nothing in this province that can't be done. It's just
having the will to do it, making sure you do due diligence when you put it in
play and making sure, more importantly, that you collaborate with all those who
have the expertise to do it.
Hats off
to the department and hats off to the Member for putting this forward; I'm going
to be looking forward to hearing a little bit more about the dialogue between
the industry and what they're talking about and how they're engaged into it. I'm
looking forward to hear new innovative ways that they're going to approach this.
There's
no doubt I suspect some of their engineers, some of their key foremen, some of
their owners and some of their workers are thinking about if we're going to bid
on something like that, here's what we need to do to modify our existing backhoe
now to have better lighting or a better backup signal. Here's how we better give
visibility to our flag people. How do you get that sign to stand out more 400
feet on a highway on a dark highway? So there are all kinds of things like that.
Some of
the companies here may start modifying the vests that they make for people, the
stop signs and the yield signs that they make. The lighting pylons now, while
they're all visible, may necessarily have to be done a different way. So there
could be another industry that can spin from what we've started here. It's a
great opportunity.
I think
we all have a responsibility here to promote that we're moving this forward. So
any business that has an innovative way that they think might improve safety or
improve the quality of the work that's being done and it could be the paving
companies because the reality is here, and my colleague had mentioned it,
nighttime in Newfoundland and Labrador, as we know, beautiful summers, the night
is when we get our cold periods of time. So maybe how they wrap the asphalt when
they travel, maybe how the plants mixed it at the time, there may be all kinds
of innovative ways that may open up other industries for us in this province.
So it's
a great start to what I'm hoping will be a way of addressing some of the
challenges we have in particular areas. That may be modified because some years
maybe we're doing 90 per cent of our stuff in heavy congested traffic areas.
Other times, it may be in isolated, smaller areas that we're paving a road that
was a dirt road for the last 70 years and now we're paving that. You may not
have to get into that. That will be your standard daytime.
So the
industry has to know that there's a mixture there. I'm glad there's no pushback
from the industry, because a few years ago when we talked about using polymer,
which was a mixture because of the ruts in heavy traffic areas, some companies
weren't adverse to it, but they were adverse to it because they weren't ready
for it. There's a certain thing that you have to have as part of your plant to
be able to do the mixture of it. So people weren't ready for it.
Since we
started announcing it, other companies have invested. So it's a new investment
for them. They found a new way of using technology. They've even become
innovative enough to be able to use it in a manner that we're hopeful the
quality of the pavement we get now will even be beyond what we expected when we
were adding the polymer at an additional cost.
So when
you start a process, while there might be a little pushback or a little
misunderstanding of exactly what you're trying to achieve, I think the end
results prove themselves. That was seen with the polymer process. We're
confident now that we'll get more years out of our main thoroughfares before we
have to replace the ruts. We've used it on the Trans-Labrador Highway to ensure
that highway lasts as long as possible before we have to do any repairs to it.
So
again, this is another creative way, another engaging way and it's another way
that our industry can take the lead and moves things forward. So I do applaud
the department, applaud the government. I applaud my hon. Member over there for
bringing this forward. I do look forward to hearing from other Members, and I do
look forward to being able to say aye in putting this forward and look forward
to the pilot as we get into this early in our spring.
Thank
you, Madam Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MADAM SPEAKER:
The Speaker recognizes the
hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
MR. HAWKINS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is
certainly my pleasure to stand today and support this resolution. I'd just like
to thank my hon. Members for making the motion, seconding the motion and putting
this forward.
I'd also
like to say a big thank you to the former minister of Transportation and Works
when he talked about the caricature and getting a cartoon made in his image. I
would like to thank him for the opportunity of just one month in office, I got
mine done. And it was with the Veteran.
So it was certainly interesting because it gave my department and gave some of
my staff an opportunity, when I celebrated my birthday a few months after, that
they used that cartoon as the front of the cake. So I reaped some benefits from
actually having that there. So I thank the former minister for that.
Madam
Speaker, it is certainly a pleasure for me today to stand and support this
resolution and to just talk for a few minutes about what we are actually doing
with this pilot project. One of the key areas for us as a government is to make
sure that we engage and we collaborate with industry. One of the things that we
decided to do early on as we were looking at the possibility of doing a pilot
project for nighttime paving was to consult with the Heavy Civil Association and
I must say that the president, Mr. Jim Organ, and the entire board as well as
the contractors were very receptive and certainly were very supportive of us
moving forward on this initiative.
I might
add too, Madam Speaker, that I'm excited. This is just another example of this
government being proactive and actually looking at I know for years and years
and years and I know the former minister must have been bombarded with people
that were calling in and complaining about the fact that they had to wait for
hours sometimes in the summer when it was hot.
However,
Madam Speaker, this government, we have reacted and we have reacted in a
positive way. We can forever sit back and make excuses and say why this can't be
done and why that can't be done, but in the end it shows leadership, it shows
understanding when we're able to take that and now change it into doing a pilot
project so we can determine whether nighttime paving works for the province.
I just
want to really thank all of my colleagues. When we discussed this and when we
talked about this in The
Way Forward, I got the support. I got
the support from the Premier. I got the support from Cabinet. I got the support
from my government that this is the way we want to do things. These are new ways
in which we can work to make sure that what we're doing as a government will
benefit the people that are actually having to face these challenges.
Madam
Speaker, I know my colleagues have talked about the fact that sometimes in the
summer we have to wait for these long lines when it's construction.
Geographically, we may be a large province; however, there is not a lot of
flexibility when it comes to alternate routes. We do not have the luxury of
having alternate routes whereby we can go around construction areas, so that has
created problems over the years. I know when we look at the Trans-Canada Highway
in particular where most of the traffic happens and created some of the
problems this past summer we do not have that luxury of being able to go
around these construction areas.
Madam
Speaker, I was actually sitting in my office this summer and I had a call from
one of my constituents who I know very, very well who was sitting in a car for
over two hours with her children and grandchildren in the car. I can only
imagine the frustration that must have been. We all know, as adults, trying to
sit for two hours in a car waiting for someone to flag us through; that in
itself is frustrating enough. Imagine compounding that issue and that problem
when you have children that are exposed to that as well.
So,
Madam Speaker, I thought it was important for me, as minister, to take the lead
to ask my government, our government, to support me in looking at an opportunity
whereby we can go out and have a pilot project. Part of the reason for a pilot
project is to give us the information we need. What we're going to do is
simultaneously, when we do this pilot project, we're not going to do the pilot
project on the Outer Ring Road and compare it to the Trans-Canada Highway that
could be between Badger and Grand Falls-Windsor.
When we
do the pilot project, Madam Speaker, it will be simultaneously in an area that
the volumes of traffic are the same; conditions are the same so that we can
actually do a comparison. That's part of what the hon. Member opposite talked
about when he was making his points; some very, very good points because we have
to compare apples to apples. It's important for us, when we make a decision we
need to know whether the cost is going to be 10 per cent more or 20 per cent
more. You can't really do that if you're not looking at comparable areas in
which you're doing this pilot.
So that
was part of the strategy we used, to make sure that when we do the pilot we will
have enough information, there will be enough data that will come from what
we're looking at so we can actually compare that with the traditional,
conventional way of paving during the day. I think it's important for us to do
that because we can gather that information and in the end, Madam Speaker, it
will determine whether this is something we want to move forward in subsequent
years if it's going to cost us 30 per cent more. Then, we're going to have to
make a decision. So we want to do 30 per cent and cost more than was 30 per cent
less in paving. So these are decisions that we can make once we have all of that
information.
So I
think it's important for us when we're doing this pilot project that we do it
right, that we know what we're doing, that it makes sense. And that we're able
to, at the end, be able to take all of that information and then make a decision
as we move forward on how we want to proceed with nighttime paving.
Madam
Speaker, one of the things that we really want to emphasize is safety. When I
became minister back in December and my first meeting that I had with staff when
we talked about through our briefings, I wanted to make sure that everyone in my
department every single person in my department was fully aware that safety
is going to be number one in my department.
I think
it's important that we recognize that and we realize that. Safety is the most
important thing that we can talk about, and make sure that all of our employees
who leave in the morning to go to work can expect that they are in a safe
working environment, and that every family and person who is leaving can be
expected to return in the afternoon safe. I think it's important for us because
when we look at Transportation and Works, we are dealing with a lot of heavy
equipment; we're dealing with adverse weather conditions in the winter. Some of
the conditions that we are dealing with on a daily basis are sometimes
challenging. When we look at that, we must realize that safety has to be number
one.
So when
we look at this pilot project we understand that it's going to be nighttime
paving and there will be some challenges that will be associated with that;
however, we are making sure that we've taken all the measures necessary. When we
implement this nighttime paving, all of the boxes have been checked when it
comes to safety because that is the most important thing that we have to deal
with.
I can
assure my Members opposite, as well as my colleagues, that safety is going to be
number one. That will be certainly something that we will be making sure that
all of our employees are fully aware of the fact that we will be adhering to
that.
Madam
Speaker, again, as I said, this is exciting. It's exciting for me as a minister;
it's exciting for us as a government. I'm just hoping and the indication is
that the Members opposite will be supporting the resolution today. I think
that's an important step for us because we can put aside politics and we can
realize that this is an initiative that is for the benefit of those people that
are actually going to be on our highways during the summer. It will give us an
opportunity to better strategize as we move forward.
Madam
Speaker, this year we were able to accomplish a fair amount of paving on our
highways. One of the reasons we were able to do that is because this year we
initiated early tendering. When we initiated early tendering, we were able to
get our contracts, the tenders awarded early. We were finding that we were
getting a better return on the tender values.
I will
have some stats, Mr. Speaker, in subsequent sittings of the House that I will be
bringing forward; letting the hon. Members know that this is the amount of
paving we're able to do during 2017. We have some comparative numbers in
previous years, so we can show the Members in this House that what we're doing
is in the right direction and that we're making sure we're getting the best
value for our dollars. That is certainly important for us.
As a
government, we are conscious of best value. That's something we will continue to
do because we want to look at areas that we can save money or invest money so
that we can get a better return. So these are areas, particularly in my
department, Mr. Speaker, that we've been spending a lot of time on lately to
make sure we are getting the best return we possibly can.
As we
continue to look at new options with new technology, with new opportunities,
this is something that I feel as a government we will continue to do. We will,
certainly, be in a position in spite of our fiscal situation that we're faced,
we are in a position that we have to make wise choices; our decisions that we
have to make have to be based on where we're going to get the best value for our
dollars.
I think,
Mr. Speaker, we are moving in that direction and we will continue to move in
that direction. So I'm certainly looking forward to and I'm so pleased to be
able to stand and say that this particular resolution will pass unanimously, I'm
hoping today, so that we can now finally tell the people of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador we are no longer going to sit by and not take any
action.
We are
now going to look at opportunities and ways in which we can we've listened to
the people. We know your frustrations. We know your concerns. Now we're
certainly taking that and we're putting into action because we feel it is
important for us to listen and it is also important for us to react to what
you're saying and the suggestions you're putting forward.
So, Mr.
Speaker, this can be and this will be an exciting day for us. I'm looking
forward to getting this pilot project out this summer and certainly looking
forward to the information we're going to be able to collect, the information
we're going to be able to get back from the results on this pilot project. I
have my fingers crossed that hopefully it will work, and hopefully we'll be able
to get a good return on that. Then we'll be able to take that and hopefully in
subsequent years then, Mr. Speaker, to be able to add more areas to nighttime
paving.
I think
some of the concerns we've had with regard to the paving; I think we will be
able to determine they're probably not necessarily accurate. I think we'll be
able to find that through nighttime paving, we will probably be in a better
position and we'll have a better flow of traffic and people will not be caused
to have the delays that we've seen in the last few summers.
So, Mr.
Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. I certainly look forward to the result
of this resolution today.
Thank
you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER (Warr):
The Chair recognizes the
hon. the Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi.
MS. MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Yes, I'm
happy to stand and add my voice to the discussion this afternoon. Although I
have to say, I'm a bit bemused by the fact that we're dealing with a private
Member's motion about a decision that government has already made, and vote on a
resolution that sort of goes nowhere; but, if nothing else, it does give the
opportunity to us to stand and talk about the issues with regard to night
paving, and I'm glad to do that.
I think
we are behind the times here in Newfoundland and Labrador when it comes to it. I
agree with everything my colleagues have said, both in the government side and
the Official Opposition, with regard to the need for looking at this whole issue
and the need for looking at it, though, with great care.
Yes, I
do not see any reason for not supporting it, but I certainly do have a concern
with regard to the issues that have been raised by the Minister of
Transportation and Works and raised by the mover. There are concerns and we have
to make sure that in putting this pilot together, all of those concerns are
taken care of.
Now I
noticed that the minister just referred to collaboration with the industry. I
didn't hear him talk about collaboration with the unions. I presume that would
be something that has taken place. If not, that has to take place because the
unions represent the concerns of the workers. I can imagine there are a lot of
questions that have to be looked at here.
For
example, is the nighttime paving going to be seen as overtime? Or is there going
to be, as part of this pilot, a shift system put in place so that the workers
are actually doing a shift that is a regular shift and not overtime. Obviously,
in looking at the economics of it, if this is overtime, then it automatically is
going to be more expensive than doing daytime paving. So we haven't gotten any
details from either the mover or from the minister with regard to that. I would
like to have an answer to that when the mover stands at the end of the
afternoon, to tell us what exactly the plan is.
It's the
same way when it comes to the safety issues. The safety issues for workers, for
me, are paramount. I do believe we have to be concerned about the general
public. I do believe we have to be concerned about the absolute frustration of
people having to be held up sometimes for an hour or more when paving is going
on the Trans-Canada Highway or on any of the other major routes in the province.
We have
a very short summer, so the period of time for doing our roads is much shorter
than, say, in Southern Ontario, or much shorter than in the southern parts of
the other provinces. Or much shorter than over in BC, in the southern part, and
do not even have to deal with the fact of having freezing temperatures and snow.
So we have a very short period of time for keeping our roads in good condition
and we need them in good condition for the safety of the people who use the
roads.
One of
my colleagues, I think, in the government talked about the whole issue of road
rage, and that is an issue. When you have our main thoroughfares being cut up
with paving in high-traffic time, people do get frustrated. So night paving, in
actual fact, in and of itself, can become a positive, safe thing to do. But in
terms of the workers, then we have to look at what is safe for the workers. I
would assume that this pilot project could not be put together without
co-operation from the unions, not just from other companies in the industry.
Because it's the unions who represent the workers and the unions who, I am
pretty sure, will know what has been done in this whole area in other districts,
whether in our own country or in the United States, if we just look at the North
American continent.
Some of
the safety issues we need to consider for the workers have to do with things
like the impact of working at night. Working at night may not be something that
has been the norm for the workers who are involved. Working at night can really
have a negative effect on workers. For example, the body operates counter to its
natural rhythm because our natural rhythm is to be awake in the daytime and to
sleep at night. That's how we operate, for most people.
There
are some people whose internal clock is slightly different. There are some
people who work at night very easily but for most of us, when it's bright light,
that's when we should be awake. When it's dark, that's when we should be
sleeping. Some people adjust easily. Some people don't.
There is
a disorder called shift work sleep disorder. It is a recognized medial disorder
that can affect those who work at night. I put this out to the Member for
Virginia Waters Pleasantville to let us know whether or not they've looked at
studies with regard to this impact on workers of this disorder. Will they
monitor workers during the pilot project? Will workers have a choice?
If
workers do not want to have to pave at night because they know their bodies will
not adjust easily, are they going to have a choice with regard to working at
night or is the pilot going to be something that shows the night paving would be
a normal shift in the work of these workers? Sometimes they're paving at night
and sometimes they're paving in the daytime. That can have a tremendous impact
on the effectiveness of the worker and on the health of the worker.
People
who have shift work sleep disorder suffer from insomnia and excessive
sleepiness. People with this disorder are more accident prone, they're
irritable, they become irritable easily and they're less able to concentrate.
The disorder can also lead to depression, anxiety, substance abuse and other
mood disorders.
Now, I
know that lots of professions have shift work that involves nightshifts and all
I'm saying is this will be a new reality for the workers who are working for
Transportation and Works. This will be a new realty for them; they're not used
to working at night. They're not used to doing shifts. Although I do note that
in the City of St. John's right now, they are doing some nightshifts in their
effort to get the roads of St. John's fixed before things freeze up. They want
to get the bit of paving left, especially where they are repairing little pieces
of roads, but it's not the norm.
So we
need to look at what has happened in other jurisdictions when workers who are
not used to doing this do it. So there has to be, I think, an aspect of training
that involves helping them to understand the different lifestyle that is going
to be involved for them and what they may need to do and what their employer may
need to do and that means the government in terms of making sure that they
are ready for this change.
It's
going to be difficult for them in the sense that it's a pilot so it's something
that's going to start and it's going to end. We can't take it for granted;
that's all I'm saying. I don't think listening to the minister, it doesn't sound
to me like its being taken for granted but I'd like details. I'd like to know
how the workers are going to be prepared.
Research
from other jurisdictions emphasizes the importance of improved safety through a
number of ways. We have to make sure and this is going to be the problem; this
is why I'm interested in the economics of this because we have to make sure that
there are no shortcuts in terms of the equipment that's going to be needed. So,
for example, the lighting equipment, we have to make sure that we have the best
lighting equipment so that we minimize as much as possible the possibility of
accidents because of inadequate lighting.
I am
sure, like with everything, there are some systems that are better than other
systems. So I urge the government that if this pilot project is going to work,
then we can't cut corners when it comes to having the best possible lighting.
Also, the use of protective barriers, we have to make sure again that everything
is done to make sure that they are visible and that they are safe.
The
proper traffic control devices: Now, I would think that the best way to do this
is, let's say the Outer Ring Road for example, that if a piece of that is going
to be paved for the night, that whole piece gets shutdown. There's no reason why
you can't. Because the Outer Ring Road, everywhere along the way has all the
different accesses off the road, so you could easily shut it down. Now, we would
have pieces of the highway where, for example, there isn't an easy way to get
off the road like we just had happen in the summer out in Terra Nova. Well,
not the summer, the fall when we had that very, very heavy rainfall and people
were using an unsafe track to try to not have to be held up in the traffic, and
they were using an unsafe track to get off the road.
That's
one of the problems we will have in different areas, and going through Terra
Nova Park is definitely one of those areas where you can't just go down and take
the bay road. So, for example, if you're on the Avalon Peninsula and you're
doing the road between St. John's and Cochrane Pond or further out, Butter Pot,
you can go down to the bay road and you can come back up to the highway.
In cases
like that, I think all of the road that's being paved should definitely be shut
down. But in cases where you can't get off the road and you want to do paving,
say, for example, talking about the Burgeo Highway, you're not going to be able
to get off that while it's being paved. That means that you still have to allow
traffic through, but it won't be the amount of traffic that would be there in
the daytime.
So you
have to make sure that there are proper traffic control devices in place and
we've seen them. We have them here in the province, temporary traffic control
devices that make people stop, change lanes. One lane is there and people take
turns going to that one lane. But it it's going to be at night then we have to
make sure that we have the best possible setup of those traffic control devices.
We have to. There has to be adequate warning, and there has to be yes,
adequate warning is one of the biggest things, knowing well in advance that it's
coming up and being ready for it.
There
are a number of safety devices, one which we're used to, and that's the use of
active illumination on clothing and hardhats, which is beyond just reflective
clothing. So again, what I'm saying to the minister is that we can't cut
corners. That's why I'm fascinated that this is happening right now at this time
where government is making us so aware of being in a financial crunch, but we
can't cut corners. We have to make sure the best possible of everything is here.
Then we have to make sure there's public involvement. People have to be well
informed. There has to be a big awareness program so people understand what the
program is going to be.
We have
to make sure that municipalities are involved in the discussion where it's
important for them to be involved. We have to make sure that the unions are
involved. If there are subcontractors, they have to be involved. All of this has
to be prior to the pilot project being put in place.
So it's
not simple. I'm sure the government doesn't see it as simple, I'm sure the
minister doesn't, but I really urge them, as I've said already I'm going to
say again don't cut corners. Make sure we use the best of procedures. Make
sure we use the best of technical knowledge. Make sure we use the best of
equipment. Make sure we put all the best in place because if we don't we could
end up with accidents, we could end up with tragedies or we could end up with
not knowing really how night paving could take place.
Thank
you very much, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to bring these points forward. I
look forward to supporting the resolution.
MR. SPEAKER:
The Chair recognizes the hon.
the Member for Labrador West.
MR. LETTO:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It gives
me great pleasure to stand here today to support this private Member's
resolution that has been put forward by the Member for Virginia Waters
Pleasantville I think it is called now. I'm encouraged that the department as
well, under the minister's direction, is willing to move ahead with this.
AN HON. MEMBER:
Seconded by (inaudible).
MR. LETTO:
Seconded. Yes, of course.
There
have been a lot of concerns brought up by the Opposition Members and rightly so.
These are basically the same concerns that we have. I feel confident that the
minister with his officials have addressed all of these and taken this under
consideration when deciding to move ahead with this pilot project.
We have
to remember that this is a pilot project, even though it has been done
successfully in other jurisdictions, in other provinces and other highways. It
is a pilot project for this province. The fact that we're prepared to move ahead
with that I think is encouraging. It shows that the department, the officials,
the minister, they're all willing to think outside the box.
I was
also encouraged by the comments from the previous minister who had it on his
agenda as well but didn't move ahead with it. Nevertheless, that is something
that's been thought about for a while and it is good to see that this has been
on the go for some time. Nevertheless, we are prepared to move ahead with it.
I
represent a district in Labrador where traffic is not that high. I spent years
lobbying as the municipal representative for highways. I didn't care when they
paved them. They could have paved them in the daytime, they could have paved
them at night, they could have paved then in the winter, I didn't care.
But the
fact is now that we are getting our roads paved and we are investing in the
Trans-Labrador Highway the previous administration did it's now time to look
at what is best for our province, what is best for transportation and keep the
movement of goods and people in our province, which is very important to the
business community and very important to tourism. There is nothing worse than
when you come into a province and a highway that's under construction and you're
waiting, sitting there. It's very disruptive and certainly it doesn't help your
tourism experience.
Nevertheless, the one thing that we have to make sure and I'm confident that
the department has done that is to follow all safety precautions. I worked in
an industry for 30 years that night shift, day shift, afternoon shift; it didn't
matter what time of the day it was, you did the same work. Whether you were
driving a truck, whether you were working inside the pellet plant or the
concentrator, night shift was no different than day shift. So it's a matter of
culture, it's a matter of change for some people. This is new to the
construction industry for highway construction, but it's nothing new.
We hear
the Opposition talking about, or the Leader of the Third Party talking about,
whether there's going to be overtime or whatnot. Well, we enter into a contract
with a contractor; it's up to the contractor what they pay their employees. I
know in our industry there was always a premium, but it wasn't considered
overtime unless you worked over 40 hours a week. Then, no matter what shift you
worked, it becomes overtime.
So these
are some of the concerns that I think are I wouldn't say unnecessary, but
certainly haven't been taken into consideration. I applaud the minister and I
applaud the department for taking this initiative. We have to remember, again,
that this is a pilot project; this is not a done deal. It may work, it may not
work. I'm sure that evaluation will be done after the pilot project is complete.
I'm confident that will be done in a very expeditious manner.
Also,
the fact that we do have the Heavy Civil Association in line with this, they do
support this initiative. Again, it's a pilot project with them as well, I'm
sure. They will come back with their opinions and their comments after the
project is completed. I'm sure they will have their say. If they feel it's not
in the best interests of their industry, then it's something that we have to
consider.
I can
guarantee you, we are in no way and I feel confident about this when you
talk about cutting corners. This is not about cutting corners. This is about
being more efficient. This is about addressing the concerns of the people.
We've
had several concerns, and I've had them as a municipal person when I was
involved with Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador. We had many complaints
about construction, especially at peak season. We know our season is short. We
don't have a long construction season. So we have to take advantage of what we
have and the weather and whatnot. I'm confident that all these considerations,
all these concerns have been taken under serious consideration by the department
and have been addressed.
When you
look at it, paving roads in the nighttime is not something we see very often. We
have to go somewhere else to see it, but we're at a time in our history where we
have to start thinking and get more innovative and more effective. If this is
one way to do it, then maybe that's the way of the future; but, until we test
it, until we prove it and until we consider all the positives and the negatives
about it, we will never know, will we? That's what this is all about. This is
about finding out if it is more effective. If it is more appealing and accepting
to the public, then maybe that's the way we will look at it in the future.
Mr.
Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I certainly look
forward to getting full co-operation and full support on this resolution.
Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The Chair recognizes the hon.
the Member for Virginia Waters Pleasantville.
MR. B. DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I'd like
to also thank the Members who spoke to this resolution. The seconder, the Member
for Harbour Grace Port de Grave, the Minister of Transportation and Works, the
Member for Conception Bay South, the Member for Conception Bay East Bell
Island, the Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi, and our friend from the Big
Land in Lab West.
It's
great to see the full House is going to be in support of this initiative, I
hope. It's a long time coming, as it's been highlighted that the previous
administration were looking at this as well, which is an important testament to
how important this is that the previous administration was looking at it as
well.
One of
the things I'd like to address is a couple of the concerns that were raised by
my colleagues across the House. Our government has said since the election a
year ago that we'd use an evidence-based, decision-making model. Put another
way, we're going to look at the best practices of other municipalities, other
countries, other provinces. In this case, that's what we have done. This is not
a new initiative. It's been done for 30 years or more in other jurisdictions,
both in North America and other places, in Ontario and New York. These are
important things for us to look at.
The
people have cried out for us to try to fix the system that seems to be a little
bit more disadvantaged for them. So we're looking at this as a pilot project.
That's the key point here, it's a pilot project.
Nighttime paving; we need some evidence based here in this province. That's why
we've established a pilot project. There's going to be a mirror project being
done, daytime paving. So we're going to evaluate both projects on their merit.
It will give us value for money, which is talked about by the Member for
Conception Bay South. He wanted to ensure there's value for money, which is
important and we agree with that. That's why we're doing the balanced approach
of having two simultaneous paving jobs happening, one in the night, one in the
day, so we can evaluate the progress to see what the quality of the work is; all
the avenues you've discussed as concerns. That's why we're doing it this way.
One of
the other concerns was lighting. Directional lighting is important, as we see
with softball fields and other fields around this city or other places that are
lit during the evenings. Directional lighting can make a difference for putting
light exactly where you need it.
For
instance, in my district King George V, I used to get phone calls all the time
about the houses that were affected by the lights of the soccer field. They
changed the lights to a more directional light. They have more light on the
field and less light lost into the backyards of the houses that were being
impacted. That is the exact same scenario we're talking about when we deal with
going through areas where there would be homes that may be impacted by this, but
let's not be too coy about this. We're not going to be in municipalities
affecting homes while people are sleeping. That's not the approach. That's not
what we're doing it for. We're trying to follow suit in areas that make sense.
We
talked about just outside of Gander when they were doing work on the
Trans-Canada Highway, which is important. The Outer Ring Road was very difficult
for people in my own district, and many other people who transverse that area of
the Outer Ring Road, to move around while we were doing a paving process. If
that happened in the evening, there was a much better opportunity for us to deal
with it in a better way for the general public.
One of
the things that was mentioned is about safety. Safety is our government's
primary concern for both the workers that will be doing the site work, as well
as the individuals that will be traversing those roads. We want to ensure
they're safe. There's no one in this government trying to cut any corners or
anywhere like that. We're going to make sure that it is safe right across the
board. All the precautions that have been taken in place right across other
jurisdictions will be looked at.
There
are definitive advantages to paving at night. Temperatures are cooler. One of
the discussions that was made mention to us, mostly in our climate temperatures
are not entering into this equation, but sometimes in the summer during July and
August which are our peak paving months those times are sometimes hot and
the pavement doesn't get time to cool in the way it needs to. So paving in the
night in those certain circumstances is going to make a difference in the paving
process there. So as long as we take into account the safety and ensuring the
quality work that's there, it's important.
One of
the other things that was mentioned was the tendering process sorry, talking
with our unions and our workers. Well, that's important, there's no doubt, but
during the tendering process the businesses that will be tendering or the
contractors who will be tendering for this understand this. They are making sure
they're responsible for determining their resources for allocation, and they
will do that and built into their costs. It's very, very important that that's
going to be the case.
The
Member for Lab West talked about making sure a lot of different industries work
different shifts, split shifts, overnights, during the day, afternoon shifts.
That's a fact of life in many jurisdictions, not just here, right across this
country and right across North America. So we're going to make sure that we're
doing our due diligence to ensure their safety is taken care of and we're going
to look after our employees. It's important that the contractors will know all
this going in front when they make those bids for the tendering process.
One of
the facts of life that we have in our province is we're a little slow to
sometimes take advantage of things that are happening in other municipalities
and other jurisdictions. This is an opportunity for us to lead the way here in
this province, to do something we haven't done before. I applaud the Minister of
Transportation and Works for being so agreeable to try to do this in a fast, but
efficient way to ensure safety's there.
It's
very important that we move on this, not only for the potential cost savings and
extending the season, potentially, but more importantly, for trying to alleviate
some of those concerns that residents had each and every day on our phones, that
call us because they were waiting for two hours or an hour in a line when it
doesn't make any sense for them to do so. If there's a better way to do it, we
should find it.
I'm sure
that because of the appeal in the House, it's great to have the rest of the
Members of the House of Assembly in support of this. We hope that will be the
way it goes, but it's looking pretty good that way. I do want to applaud some of
the key points that the other Members made, because it allowed us to address
those concerns head on.
We all
know that the construction season, as I've said, is pretty short so anything we
can do that would elongate that or make it a little bit more flexible, which is
important we don't have the luxury of having a long season like Florida or
places like that. We have to make hay, as they say, when the sun is shining. So
this is an important thing that would allow us to continue on with the paving
process. In some cases that makes it a little bit faster, a little bit more
efficient and it makes that much better for us as a government and us as a
people in this province.
There
has to be smarter ways to do things and this is one of the ways that we can try
to find out if it can work. We're using the evidence-based approach I've
mentioned before, which is very important. You need to have simultaneous
operations going so you can figure out all the issues that could arise. Because
when you start up something new, it may not work as well as we had hoped it
does, and we need to evaluate that to see if there are ways to improve it or
whether it needs to be scrapped altogether, which is an important thing. We want
to make sure that is something we move forward with.
Testing
out ways to make roadwork more efficient in our province seems like a relatively
insignificant thing, but it has a dramatic effect on the lives of people in our
province because nearly everyone in our province has to traverse roads during
the summer season and our construction season that are impacted.
I know
driving around the City of St. John's this summer, it was great to see the work
being done, which is fantastic to see, but it's also very hard to try to get to
appointments and things like that when you're trying to move around our city
when there are stoppages in place. So we're trying to take that out and
hopefully other jurisdictions will move forward with that, be it other
municipalities in our province, where it makes sense, could look at it as a
possibility.
However,
I cannot stress enough that this is a pilot project. We don't know whether the
pilot is going to work perfectly, but it is something that we need to test. The
initiatives part of our government's commitment to evidence-based decision
making, just because the initiative works in other jurisdictions doesn't
necessarily mean it's going to work here for sure. So we want to make sure we
take every opportunity to utilize the information that we find in this pilot.
The minister is going to evaluate that and make a presentation back to us as a
government to ensure that this works.
AN HON. MEMBER:
(Inaudible.)
MR. B. DAVIS:
What a minister is correct.
As I
mentioned earlier, there are several core questions that must be answered during
the pilot project and I've addressed some of them today because our colleagues
across the aisle have mentioned some of them. Will the nighttime paving be
safer? We've said that we will unequivocally ensure that safety is our number
one priority when we do any work on our roads. Human life is much more valuable
than any dollars that can be saved or any more paving that can be done across
our province. So it's very important that that is our guiding principle on this
and that's what our department has said.
Well-lit
nighttime construction areas will be easily identifiable from a long distance
away, probably much more than they are during the daytime. I know travelling the
highway and some of the construction zones across the Trans-Canada Highway this
year you were almost on top of the zone before you noticed it was there. The
lights that will be beaming at night would obviously make that a little bit more
obvious to drivers that are going over our roads.
It is
important that the businesses that are bidding on these contracts know this in
advance and get the correct equipment that is going to make it a little bit
easier for our staff to do what needs to be done in order to make it a valid
test.
If the
pilot doesn't pass the test and here is the good point. There's a host of
potential advantages not just to paving at night but if it doesn't pass, we have
to know that now. We can't always have the residents of this province asking us
why we can't pave at night. It makes sense. It definitely makes insurmountable
sense to me but now we have to get the numbers to make sure it works. That's the
important key piece we are going to try to identify in this.
As I've
said, we don't have the answers yet and I can't presume to have all the answers,
but we're going to get the answers through the pilot process. At that point,
we'll have those answers for everyone to see.
One last
point I'd like to make and conclude with is that if we continue to do things the
same way we've always done things, we're going to get the exact same results. I
think it's incumbent upon us as a government to try to do things a little
differently, make it a little bit better for our residents. We can't do it all
the one shot, but it's very, very important that we take every advantage we can
to do things right. Sometimes making a little change like this is going to make
the lives of the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador a lot better and, in
turn, make it much easier for our Transportation and Works to get the job done
that they need to do.
Thank
you very much. I encourage everyone to vote for this initiative.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER (Osborne):
Order, please!
Is it
the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion as put forward by the Member for
Virginia Waters Pleasantville?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
It being
Private Members' Day, this House now stands adjourned until 1:30 tomorrow
afternoon.