The Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the House of Assembly.

CHAIR (Aylward): Order, please!

(Inaudible) our Resource Committee, is my understanding. I am not sure that is the exact location for it, but it is listed for our meetings isn't it?

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Okay.

I want to welcome everybody here this morning for the Estimates of the Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs. I want to welcome the minister and his officials. I also welcome members of the Committee, and would ask that the members of the Committee identify themselves to our microphone and to Hansard, please, to start off this morning.

MR. TAYLOR: Trevor Taylor, MHA for The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. E. BYRNE: Ed Byrne, MHA for Kilbride.

MR. YOUNG: Wally Young, MHA for St. Barbe.

MS M. HODDER: Mary Hodder, MHA for Burin-Placentia West.

MR. BUTLER: Roland Butler, MHA for Port de Grave.

CHAIR: Kevin Aylward, MHA for St. George's-Stephenville East.

Mr. Minister, after you introduce yourself and your deputy or assistant deputy, whichever title, you can also then have an opening fifteen minutes, or up to fifteen minutes, to introduce your department or go over the mandate. Then the Opposition will have the opportunity and the members of the Committee will have the opportunity to provide questions to you and your officials.

If you would like to introduce yourself and your officials, then also you can do your opening remarks if you like.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Wally Andersen, MHA for Torngat Mountains and Minister of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs. On my left is Sean Dutton, Assistant Deputy Minister.

The Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs was established just a few years ago. Its mandate is to carry out large files in Labrador. We do all the dealing with the Aboriginal issues in the Province: the Innu, the Inuit, the land claims. We deal with the Aboriginals on the Island. Any issues that are dealt with, we liaison between the Aboriginals and Ottawa. Any big files in Labrador go through the office of the Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs. Any other department in government that proposes files in Labrador, they go through our office. Any documents pertaining to Labrador are signed off by me as the minister. As I said earlier, the deputy is located right in Labrador, along with our staff. We also have a staff here in St. John's that are doing the day-to-day negotiations with the Innu and the Inuit. If you ask why the negotiations are in St. John's, it is because it was agreed upon in 1996 by both the Innu and the Inuit on an offer from Premier Tobin at the time as to where they wanted their negotiations to be held. Prior to that, it was all held in Ottawa. It was agreed by both the Innu and the Inuit that all land claims negotiations would take place in St. John's because they felt it was better to deal with all the appropriate departments in government.

It is a large file. We deal with, as I said, all the issues that pertain to Labrador. The wood operation comes through our office, even though it falls under forestry. I guess their mandate is to try and provide a voice to the people that they never had before. Certainly from all aspects, the majority of the people in Labrador seem quite comfortable in working with the department. The amount of files that we handle is fairly large.

I guess that is basically in the crux of what we do. It is a challenge. Again, most of our staff today, half of them are in Labrador and half are here in the office in St. John's.

We are open to any questions. Certainly, I think my assistant deputy has been with the department since day one; so, as we go through, probably most of the questions raised on the finances will be answered by him. Any on the department that you might have, certainly the minister will answer.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Minister.

The Chairman concurs that your assistant deputy is one of the brightest ADMs in the country, as far as I am concerned. I am supposed to be a moderator, I am not supposed to give commentary, but there is occasion when I do.

Opposition, would you like to have a commentary this morning, or questions?

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Minister, and the staff person, for coming.

Mr. Chair, if we could move a motion to reduce the minister's salary to $1, to start....

CHAIR: I have some (inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: I am only joking.

Thank you, Minister, for coming this morning. The portfolio you have, I understand the importance and significance of it. I guess it is a place where all issues, as you have indicated yourself, relating to Labrador, must be signed off by you as Minister Responsible for Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, and everything pertaining to it.

You mentioned forestry. I would assume the same would hold true for Works, Services and Transportation. Are you actively involved in all of those files, whether it be the Labrador Highway, the development of the forestry industry, possible development of more agriculture in the area? All of those things that are on your plate, are you dealing with those?

MR. ANDERSEN: Basically, Ed, all these departments that come through us outline to us exactly what they are proposing. We have officials in our department who work with them. Sometimes we do some research for them, provide information to them. Yes, basically every file in Labrador, we -

MR. E. BYRNE: Any decision that is made within Labrador must be signed off by you as minister, you are saying, so you are involved?

MR. ANDERSEN: Yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: Minister, in terms of the ongoing negotiations on Lower Churchill, for example - I will get to the Estimates in a few moments - how heavily is the department involved - was involved, or still is involved - in the negotiations in the past, and whatever the status of those negotiations are now?

MR. ANDERSEN: Certainly, I think one of the key factors involved, if there is going to be a development of the Lower Churchill, is that we negotiate on behalf of the Province - the Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs - a land claims with the Innu Nation. They are key, if a Lower Churchill deal goes ahead. That is where the department has played a very key role, for example, dealing with the Innu Nation or the Band Council, and certainly providing information to Mines and Energy, which probably plays a lead role in the development of the Lower Churchill. These are some of the ways that we are involved with the development of the Lower Churchill. Certainly, with regard to the concerns of the people of Labrador, most of the concerns are brought to our office and we pass them along to the different departments.

MR. E. BYRNE: Minister, last year you had budgeted - and this is in the Estimates itself, on subsection 1.1.01. You budgeted $265,700 for Salaries out of your office, there was $297,000 spent, and this year you are budgeting $255,000. Has there been a reduction in the office in terms of salary person or is it contractual services not being -

MR. DUTTON: The reduction is attributable to the Parliamentary Secretary's position. That was a position we had when Mr. Andersen was in that, and we do not have one at this point.

MR. E. BYRNE: In terms of Transportation and Communications, 1.1.01.03, there was $40,000 less budgeted this year. Is there any specific reason for that? There was $130,000 spent last year, and you are budgeting $90,000. Is there any specific reason, or was there anything last year that was an anomaly which would have caused the increase that would have been unforeseen or out of normal?

MR. DUTTON: Well, I guess the spending pattern in that office has been consistent the last two years but that is as much as Treasury Board has approved.

CHAIR: That is a great answer.

MR. E. BYRNE: Enough said.

CHAIR: That is as accurate an answer, I guarantee you. He is absolutely right, too.

MR. E. BYRNE: So it is not that you did not ask for, it is all that you are going to get.

CHAIR: In other words, it has nothing to do with reality.

Go ahead. Sorry.

MR. E. BYRNE: Well, this is going to be a short meeting this morning.

Section 1.2.01. Executive Support: Appropriations provide for the senior planning and direction of the Department, including the establishment and evaluation of policies and objectives. There is an increase in Salaries there. Has there been an extra position hired there? If so, what position is it?

MR. DUTTON: No. I believe that is attributable to the salary increases. Of course, percentage increases mean more for the executive because they are paid relatively more.

MR. E. BYRNE: That is right. Yes, okay.

Section 2.1.01. Aboriginal Affairs. Under that section it says: Appropriations provide for the formulation, implementation and administration of the Province's policies respecting aboriginal peoples.

What would this section of the department be primarily concerned with? If you could give me a little more detail, if that is possible.

MR. DUTTON: This is the St. John's branch of our department. It involves our policy and planning division and land claims division. They are involved in the negotiation of the Labrador Inuit land claim and self-government agreement, and the Innu land claim agreement. As well, there are quite a number of negotiations ongoing related to Innu Reserve creation. We have had to negotiate a number of agreements pertaining to the federal government assumption of funding responsibility for programs on reserves and the eventual Innu takeover of those programs, once they have developed the capacity to do so.

MR. E. BYRNE: This would be the section within the department that would have primary responsibility, I would assume, for federal-provincial negotiations or overruns?

MR. DUTTON: Yes, many of these negotiations would be tripartite involving Indian Affairs and the Aboriginal group in question.

MR. E. BYRNE: How is the relationship with Indian Affairs?

MR. DUTTON: Well, we try to work cooperatively with them. I guess the dilemma that we have had for some time is -

MR. E. BYRNE: How are they with you? That is what I am interested in.

MR. DUTTON: I guess the issue has always been that the - the Province maintains that the federal government has the fiduciary responsibility for Aboriginal people and that that applies in the Province. We seek to ensure that they are held to account to take responsibility for those matters.

In terms of the land claims negotiations, there has been a cooperative approach there to try to work together to resolve issues. A lot of the issues in the land claims are either federal or provincial, but there are some overlapping matters that we have a common interest in; as well, to work with them on the reserve related issues. There have been a lot of complicated negotiations around that. We have been seeking to reach arrangements where they assume as full funding responsibility as possible, and we are not always completely successful in that regard. We continue to have a co-operative approach and we meet regularly with them.

MR. ANDERSEN: I would just like to say, too, that we have had a great response when it comes down to the social problems that are faced by the Aboriginal communities. Every time we have gone to INA, Indian and Northern Affairs, and Health Canada for additional funds, once we win the case, we have a pretty good track record. They do usually respond in - I cannot say passionate, but probably in a positive way.

MR. E. BYRNE: Under the same heading, under Transportation and Communications, last year we budgeted $330,000, revised or spent $250,000, and this year you are budgeting again $330,800. Is there any specific reason why you came under budget? Not that it is a bad thing, mind you, but -

MR. DUTTON: Basically, as the minister alluded to, a lot of the negotiations do take place in St. John's, where our St. John's staff are engaged, and that is a saving, but there are a number of meetings that occur in Nain or Sheshatshiu or Ottawa so there is a continuing need for travel within that section.

MR. E. BYRNE: Under Professional Services, under the same subhead, 2.1.01.05., last year you spent $100,000 and this year you have budgeted $193,800, as you did budget last year. Again, do you see the requirement for professional services that the department may need and, if so, what would they be?

MR. DUTTON: Sure. I think the major expenditure in that area this year has been verification of the French translation of the Inuit land claims treaty. Both the French and English versions are going to be lawful, so we need to ensure that there is consistency. Unfortunately, we do not have the capacity within our own department to verify that.

MR. E. BYRNE: Who did you contract to do that? Is that a tendered sort of piece of business?

MR. DUTTON: It was, and there was a company, Paul Wilkinson and Associates in Quebec. There were no bids from within the Province, as I recall.

MR. E. BYRNE: That would go out in all the local papers, I guess.

MR. DUTTON: It was, yes, and nationally as well.

MR. E. BYRNE: On Purchased Services, last year you spent $60,000, you had budgeted $213,800 and you have $213,800 budgeted again. Based upon only spending $60,000 on Purchased Services, on what do you foresee spending $213,800?

MR. DUTTON: I guess between these two items, Professional Services and Purchased Services, our major cost this year is going to be related to the ratification of the Inuit land claims treaty. Under the Agreement in Principle we have with the Inuit, we had agreed to cost share the ratification costs with the Government of Canada. That is going to involve having to carry out the actual vote by LIA members on that, and we are hoping that will occur later this year.

MR. E. BYRNE: How is that going, by the way?

MR. DUTTON: It is very near to conclusion, and has been for some time. I guess it is probably taking a little longer than we would like, but, given the treaty is forever, we do not want to rush it and go in too soon. We are hopeful that we can resolve the outstanding issues over the next period of time and be in a position to initial the document this year.

MR. E. BYRNE: Minister, are you in the position at all to speak about any of those outstanding issues? If you are, fair enough, and if you are not, fair enough. It is not a loaded question that I am asking. It is just a -

MR. ANDERSEN: We do, on a fairly regular basis. I suppose, being the member, being the MHA, we - myself and Sean - are there the majority of the time. We try and liaison too, as best as we can, between the feds and LIA as well. We are there the whole time, and have been since probably 1996, since I became a member. We are there most of the time to try and do what is best, I guess, being a member of government, being a member of LIA, and being the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. E. BYRNE: You have a lot of hats on there.

MR. ANDERSEN: Yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: Under subsection 2.1.03.03., in terms of Transportation and Communications, again it is just a question that jumps out, nothing serious obviously, you had budgeted last year $130,000 for Transportation and Communications, spent $50,000, about 60 per cent of that, and now you have budgeted $126,000. Again, was there any reason or is it the same sort of answer that you have provided in other questions?

MR. DUTTON: I guess this is about the amount that has been typically budgeted each year, and spending has been lower. Typically, this covers the four quarterly meetings of the committee that oversees the agreement. It involves the municipalities in the North Coast communities, and federal and provincial officials, so it has been the same by and large year by year.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Chair, we certainly understand the significance and importance of this department to the role of government and to the role of future development of Labrador and its people. With that, I don't think we have any more questions. If nobody else does, we certainly can move to pass subheads 1.1.01. through 2.1.03. inclusive.

CHAIR: Thank you, Sir.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01. through 2.1.03. carried.

On motion, Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: I want to thank the members of the Committee.

Before we go, there is just the moving of the minutes from the last meeting which was held on April 28, if we could have a motion to move those minutes.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

I want to thank the members of the Committee of their presence here this morning, and the minister and your assistant deputy minister.

Thank you.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.