Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte-Springdale, replaces Ray Hunter, MHA for Grand Falls-Windsor-Green Bay South.

The Committee met at 6:00 p.m. in the House of Assembly.

CHAIR (Harding): Order, please!

Since this is our first meeting of the Resource Committee, a follow-up procedure, I ask the Clerk now to call for nominations for Chair.

CLERK: This is the same Committee; we don't have to do that.

CHAIR: Okay, we don't have to do that.

I would like to welcome you all here as we debate the Estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

First of all, I would like to ask the Committee members to identify themselves by their name and district.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Kelvin Parsons, MHA for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, MHA for the District of Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. VERGE: Wade Verge, MHA for the District of Lewisporte.

MR. BAKER: Jim Baker, MHA for the District of Labrador West.

MR. DALLEY: Derrick Dalley, MHA for the District of The Isles of Notre Dame.

CHAIR: Thank you.

I am Harry Harding, Chair of the Committee.

We also have some observers, so I would like for those people to identify themselves as well.

MS CAMPBELL: Lori Campbell, Researcher, Official Opposition Office.

MS WILL: Amanda Will, Executive Assistant to Lorraine Michael.

MR. MORGAN: Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP Office.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Normally we follow the procedure whereby I will ask the minister, first, to introduce his officials. Then he can have up to fifteen minutes to give sort of an overview of his department's Estimates for this coming year.

Following that, the first speaker then will have up to fifteen minutes. After that, I will ask the other members on the Committee if they would like to speak. If not, then the previous speaker may carry on until he is satisfied with his questioning and answers.

To begin, I would like to ask the Clerk to call the first subhead.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.1.01. Does that carry?

Minister.

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Clyde Jackman. I am the Minister of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, and I would like to introduce my officials joining me today.

To my immediate left is Ms Cathy Duke, the Deputy Minister. Next we have the Assistant Deputy Minister of Tourism, Mary Taylor-Ash. Next to Mary we have Judy Power, Manager of Financial Services. Then, right behind Judy, we have Scott Jones, our newly-minted Director of Finance. Next to Scott we have Debbie Marnell, Communications Specialist, who is representing Communications Director Heather May, who is unable to join us this evening. Immediately behind me, Mr. Jimmy Tee, Director, Recreation and Sport Division. I think almost everybody in government knows who Jimmy Tee is.

As you know, the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation has three main lines of business, all of which have reported successes over the past year. As you may also know, in early February we joined Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador in releasing a joint long-term tourism vision for Newfoundland and Labrador entitled, Uncommon Potential.

This plan, developed in full partnership with the industry, will provide the framework to continue to grow our tourism industry into the next decade. We are very excited about the direction we are taking with the industry and we look forward to the official establishment of the tourism board in the very near future.

Meanwhile, Newfoundland and Labrador's tourism industry performed very well in 2008 despite the challenges we faced locally and the challenges felt throughout the national and global tourism industry. We held our own, but let's not kid ourselves; these are very tough times. We are in the midst of a global recession. Now more than ever we must ensure we maintain our competitive edge. That is why in Budget 2009 we continue to invest in tourism.

Of paramount importance is our investment of an additional million dollars for tourism marketing, which more than doubles the annual tourism marketing budget from $6 million in 2004 to $13 million today. I don't think I have to speak to anyone here; we are hearing, nationally and internationally, accolades about our advertising campaign, so we are optimistic that our tourism industry will continue to perform well in 2009.

Tourism is a valuable industry. The tourism industry contributes about $800 million to the Newfoundland and Labrador economy each year and supports 12,730 direct jobs in tourism and generates significant economic and cultural spinoff. In terms of another sector, arts, culture and heritage funding, as you know, we announced a three-year funding commitment of $17.6 million to our long-term cultural strategy, Creative Newfoundland and Labrador, in 2006. This strategy has strengthened our arts, cultural and heritage sectors, provided increased annualized funding to artists and art organizations, and provided much-needed improvements to our provincial historic sites and our arts and cultural infrastructures. Budget 2009 commits another $940,000 in new funding to support the arts, culture and heritage sectors.

Over the past four year more than $25 million has been invested in the programs and initiatives which support the goals of the cultural strategy. We will continue to work with our partners in the heritage and cultural sectors to determine where further strategic investments can be made in order to build on the momentum gained and to ensure our arts, culture and heritage industries continue to grow.

Recreation: In 2007 we released a recreation and sport strategy entitled: Active, Healthy Newfoundland and Labrador, which identified the need to enable all citizens to be physically active on a regular basis and to provide more access to recreation and sports opportunities for all of our citizens.

The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is committed to promoting active, healthy lifestyles for all our residents. We continue to work closely with the Department of Health and Community Services and the Department of Education as well as our recreation and sport stakeholders to ensure that we are co-ordinating efforts and maximizing opportunities to achieve that mutual goal. I also add that we are working with the Rural Secretariat as well on this.

Budget 2009 provides an additional $875,000 to improve existing programming and to introduce new initiatives, bringing the total new funding invested in recreation and sport initiatives to about $8.1 million over the past three years.

Our provincial sports organizations have been strengthened to increase investment over the past three years and these new strategic investments, including those made through the Healthy Aging Strategy and other Department of Health and Department of Education initiatives, will build on that momentum. As we move forward in 2009 we are in the midst of reviewing the organizational structure of the Recreation and Sport Division and exploring how we can work with our partners in the sector to improve on the delivery of programs and services.

Finally, we are looking forward to some major events in the coming years within all sectors of our department. We have the Celebrating Bartlett 2009 events coming up this year, and that event is getting a great deal of international attention. Festival 500 events will take place this summer, bringing a host of musicians and academics to our Province.

As we look ahead at 2010, we will have the Labrador Winter Games, the Junos, Newfoundland and Labrador's participation in the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games and, of course, the 400 anniversary of the founding of Cupids, the first English colony established in what is today Canada.

That is generally where we are, and where we are going. I welcome your questions as we move through the Budget Estimates for 2009.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister Jackman.

Before we begin the questioning, I would just like to remind the officials that, if you are asked to answer a question, if you would identify yourself, because it is being recorded by Hansard, so they would know who is speaking.

Mr. Parsons.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, right off the top, I would just like to state for the record that normally Ms Michael, Leader of the NDP, the Third Party in the House, would have been here today but she is unable to be here due to a death in the family. She does have representatives here, so I have invited either of them, if they wish to have a question asked – they cannot do it themselves, obviously; they have no standing before the House, but I have invited them, if they wish - to provide me with any question and I will do it on behalf of Ms Michael. I think that is only fair in the circumstances, since she could not be here to do that. So, again, if anything pops up during the course of the evening, feel free to give me the question and we will certainly put it to the minister for you.

Thank you, Minister, for you opening statement. It is a great opportunity again through the Estimates Committee, of course, to ask some questions. I can't be too harsh on you because your Aunt Irene, in Port aux Basques, might get terribly upset with me and not vote for me. In any case, sometimes the questions are soft balls and sometimes there might be a little bit of hardball but that is required because, as anyone knows, we do not often get the answers that we want in Question Period. Sometimes we do not get any answer - it is called Question Period, not answer period - and what we do get is no representation or reflection of what the question might be.

I must say, in fairness to this minister, usually if you ask a question he does try to give you the answer, or at least what he is aware of and is on the top of his head at that time, as compared to some.

First of all, for clarification purposes, I need to run through this. Usually, the way that I have approached things in the past is that we would take your Estimates for this year, which show the makeup of Estimates Revised and Budget from the previous year, and I go through a line-by-line, checkout comparison and then I would get into some general questions in terms of probing.

Maybe we misread things this year but we are unable, absolutely, to do any kind of comparative this year to last year with your statements and I would like to take an opportunity, if I could, off the top to explain that.

I am wondering if the minister has a copy of the 2008-2009 Estimates booklet. I have an extra copy here. I brought it along, just in case….

MR. JACKMAN: Okay.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It is necessary for me to take this time to go through it because, otherwise, you will not have an understanding of where I am coming from and why we are perplexed as to what we would normally do.

If you look at the 2008-2009 booklet, and I have turned it to page 167, which shows right off the top there, Executive and Support Services, the first category, for example, 1.1.01. Minister's Office, 01. Salaries, would have shown $215,500, correct?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Now normally, if you then look at your Estimates booklet for this year, the very same heading, 1.1.01., Minister's Office, 01. Salaries, that should show up in these Estimates in the far column to the right because what was last year's Estimates in 2008-2009 would have become the figures in Budget from last year. Correct?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Those two figures are different. You showed last year Estimates of $215,500 and this year you have changed the figures on me. You said that it is $232,700. Now that is just that example. The rest of them in that column, if you go down from the far right column, $232,700 that I just referenced, you go down to $65,000, below that, that is fine, no problem; $10,100, no problem; $8,300 no problem.

Now if you slip down to the heading 1.2.01., last year showed a Salaries figure there of $607,400. Correct?

MR. JACKMAN: Okay.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That is 1.2.01. Salaries 01., that is in Executive Support, it showed a figure of $607,400. That is not the figure that shows up this year. We are seeing $656,000. So that is one example.

Now if you go down to the rest of them, the $3,000 is fine, the next one is not fine. In the 01., last year it said $66,600, now we are looking at $86,600. As you go throughout all of your figures for this year, there is at least fifty, sixty, seventy discrepancies as you go thorough in these lines.

MR. JACKMAN: So you are saying the column on the right by comparison?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Well, it raises the bigger issue of not only can an Opposition or nobody compare the figures, for comparison purposes for the question – like last year, for example, I might ask you and say you showed last year that you had x number of dollars for Salaries in the Minister's Office and this year you are telling me you are going to spend this. When I looked at last years it is not the figure that I actually saw, so I am not able to compare any of the figures that you are actually giving to me in this year's Estimates. There is at least, at minimum, sixty instances here where they are not correct, which takes away from our ability to do the comparisons and ask you the questions.

MR. JACKMAN: Okay, all right

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The next point I would like to make, before we move on, if you flip to page 168 of last year's, 2008-2009, the first heading on the top of the page there was 1.2.03. Strategic Human Resource Management.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Now if you go to this year's Estimates, 1.2.03. is not the same heading at all. The numbers are absolutely, totally out of whack, no comparison between that heading last year and that heading this year. This year, under those figures we are looking at a total for Strategic Planning and Policy of $470,200. Last year under that heading we had a figure of $1,079,600. The way that you have done your books, I am saying, or at least how you put them in the profile here, has made it absolutely impossible for us to do any comparisons to last year.

Number one, is there any particular reason why that happened? I am wondering, why we did not have the courtesy of a heads-up? Why didn't somebody point this out to us so that we would have been able to better prepare?

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Chair, I will have to defer that to the Finance people but, having said that, what we will have to do is in light of what has been raised here, we will have to make the decision, if you feel that you have been adequately able to prepare for it or whatnot but in terms of heads-up, I cannot speak to that. To be quite honest and up-front with you, I have taken this present one and gone through and used the numbers that are there. I did not get into the one that was from the past year. Having said that, what I will do is I will ask Judy to comment on it and then after that, we will have to see how we proceed.

MS POWER: The difference from last year to this year in most of the activities that you are seeing reflects the 8 per cent salary increase that was given to government employees, and the activity that you are missing is our Human Resource division, Strategic Human Resource, not the one you are seeing in this one. That was transferred to the Department of Industry, Trade for the new year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. It is just difficult for an outsider, trying to go back and say: okay, this is what we had last year, which looked like an apple and this year it looks like an orange. It is tough to compare like that. So we will not have, based on that, we will not have many questions as to what you had last year and why are you increasing it, because we could not tell in the course of preparation, what was what in a lot of cases here.

I just want to state for the record, that we were disappointed, number one, that this happened, and it does not allow the opportunity to prepare properly.

To take this to another level, minister, another question, if you look at 2008-2009 again, page 167 under the heading of Minister's Office, Salaries, the figure was $215,500. Now that was the Estimates of last year.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Now you look at this year's, the far right heading, the Budget, that figure of $232,700.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: My question is, we voted in this House last year, based on Estimates of $215,500. That is what the vote was all about. The Estimates were passed and the Budget was passed based on the fact that you were going to spend, for Salaries in the Minister's Office, $215,500, and that is what the Legislature authorized you to spend, but it shows that you actually spent $232,700.

So, my question, in terms of the Financial Administration Act – maybe even more so than the inability to compare, maybe the more important question I have, and I do not know if I have it, maybe there is an issue here - is how could you have spent more in Salaries in the Minister's Office than was legitimately authorized in the Budget vote in the House last year?

I think there is an issue here with the Financial Administration Act, and that is an issue – I do not know if anybody can comment on it right now, but that was the whole purpose of approving Estimates and that was the whole purpose of doing a vote. It is my understanding that the only thing you can spend in any department, under any heading, is what has been authorized. Unless something has happened since that, by way of Special Warrant or shuffling around of funds, and if that is the case, there are a lot of these instances in here that we could go through. I will not take the time of the committee now, but there is a lot of – every time that you cannot do the comparison, in a lot of cases you find the same instance where what was authorized by Budget vote is not what is shown now as being spent. Every time that discrepancy happened, where you spent more than you were authorized, I think there is a legitimate issue here.

Anyone care to comment?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, clearly, like I said to you, I did not get into the 2007-2008 book, and if there are issues here or whatnot, it is something that will have to be explored and investigated.

I do know if either one of the finance people can comment on it further, but from my own perspective I certainly do not want to be in a situation where I am spending where I do not have the authority to spend. I can also assure you that there is no intention on my part to do that or I do not think any intention on the part of any individual within the department to do that.

As was mentioned by Judy, there has been some HR transfer. Whether that impacts upon the entire situation, I cannot speak at this particular point. So, to be very honest with you, I do not know which way to proceed in this, whether we break and take a look at this or we go through this and we come back with some amendment or something to it. I am just looking to the direction of the Chair and see how we proceed.

CHAIR: I thank Mr. Parsons for bringing these points forward but at the same time, I will ask him if he is still prepared to proceed with the information that he has available?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, I wanted to make the point not for the purpose of disrupting the Estimates Committee. I think it is a legitimate concern that we have. It has inhibited our ability to do it the way that we would have liked to have done it. I think in future, if there are going to be massive changes like that, there ought to be a way to communicate that in advance.

The 8 per cent by the way, our figures – that is not the only explanation for this. There is more than an 8 per cent out of whack here.

I have no problem in proceeding, as is, and we are prepared to proceed. All I am asking for is an undertaking from the minister –

MR. JACKMAN: Oh, definitely.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - that we get some detailed explanation from him as to what happened here, with both issues. Why the structure changed, how it changed, and particularly the issue on the Financial Administration Act, has there been any contravention of it in what has happened here?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Maybe there is a perfectly legitimate explanation when everybody gets their head around the issue, but it just boggled us when we were preparing.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes. Just for the record, I will certainly undertake to get that information for you. The purpose of the Estimates, I suppose, as you said from the outset, that you ask questions on behalf of the people and we respond. So we will certainly have that done.

CHAIR: Thanks very much.

The only other thing, I guess we will probably have to check with the other departments as well to see if the same thing has happened.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: This is the first opportunity I have had to - my first Estimates getting into for this year that I have noticed this, and that is why we bring it up at the first opportunity.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

CHAIR: Okay. Thank you, sir.

Now you may proceed with your questioning.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: My time is up, Mr. Chair. I do not know if any other members have any questions.

CHAIR: We will try that. Are there any other questions from the other members on the Committee? No.

We will proceed now with Mr. Parsons. You can take whatever time you need.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, last year people in the Province learned of the marketing initiative titled the Fresh Air campaign.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Where government sponsored a unique taxi promotion in downtown Toronto. I believe you actually had a ride in it.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, we did.

No, I did not have a ride in it. I was hoping to but I did not get one.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I am just wondering, can you advise us exactly how much was spent on that initiative and where we might find that in the Budget?

MR. JACKMAN: I cannot tell you right off the top of my head right now, but I can certainly get that information for you. I don't think either one of the staff – you wouldn't know?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: Unfortunately, I do not have it at my fingertips right now, the exact amount. We certainly can get that for you but it would appear under Purchased Services. It was part of the marketing activity that we engage in through target marketing as our agency of record. They would have done that for us and it would have been part of that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can you give me a ballpark figure of what it would have cost, subject to your providing the actuals?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: I would hate to do that and to not be in the ballpark. We can provide this for you quite quickly. It is just my Director of Marketing would be able to tell me that in a heartbeat.

MR. JACKMAN: I have a figure in mind, but likewise, I would not want to say it and then not be correct.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: But it is encompassed in that Purchased Services.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: By the way, I do not intend to hold anybody – if I ask for a ballpark figure, I do not ask for a ballpark and then go out and say you were wrong when you gave me the actuals. I am just looking for something to get my head around my next question, whether it was $10,000 or $100,000. Like, I have no idea. That is why I ask. I do not ask for the purpose of trying to go offside with you later on. I do not do that.

We see in almost every line - of course, I have gone into that, we have seen the numbers change. As I already indicated, we find it very difficult to – as I say, I will just use that as an example again. I asked for a figure on one campaign in your department and I could not get the answer. Now you understand where we are coming from with our difficulty in trying to pick this apart. You people work it and live it, and I could not get the figure on the initiative cost. So you can imagine what we have gone through here in trying to get the figures on some of the stuff.

Minister, tourism numbers have been down in the past two years, and that is your own figures I do believe. Just to make sure I am on the right assumption here, I am assuming from what I have read, the documentation coming out of your department is that the tourism industry is down in the Province.

MR. JACKMAN: I think if we want to look at the overall numbers, yes, you are right. It is down this year close on 2 per cent overall, but we are seeing that there are particular areas that are up. While this year it is down almost 2 per cent, it is interesting to see that the expenditure of the tourists that have come here -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Increased.

MR. JACKMAN: - have been up, have increased. We are seeing things - for example, this past year with many of the challenges that we face with Marine Atlantic, that was down about 10 per cent but at the same time we are looking at air traffic that is up by 4.4 per cent. So we are seeing a changing dynamic, I suppose, within the market and you are seeing a different type of traveller and how people are getting here.

MS DUKE: If I might, minister.

The minister is perfectly correct in saying our visitation numbers, in terms of visitors, was down 2 per cent last year but our expenditures overall was up 3 per cent. So he is correct in saying that we have been very targeted in our marketing campaigns and we have been able to attract a higher yield customer who come on the shoulder seasons, who are looking for a specific product and willing to pay more for it. I think in that sense, our marketing campaign has been successful in increasing overall revenues.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just so I am on the right wavelength here, when I use the word tourism I am thinking, in my head, not the stuff that occurs inter-provincially of course, people travelling within, but anybody who comes in. Do you have a ballpark on what percentage of our tourism comes in by air versus through Marine Atlantic?

MR. JACKMAN: I do not know. Mary, would you have –

MS DUKE: We do produce a report each year and we have just completed one which we actually have posted on our Web site. It does provide very detailed information in terms of non-resident travel, and we do have numbers on Marine Atlantic and air access landings and so on in various airports.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What are those numbers?

MS DUKE: I am sorry I can't tell you off the top of my head.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. I had a supplementary to that question of the numbers being down as to what impact that might have on operators, but I guess given the fact that the amount spent was up, there was no negative impact on operators. I will assume, the numbers were down originally, you would think while the numbers are down operators did not make as much money.

MS DUKE: I think that when I talked about the niche market a moment ago, visitors will be looking for specific types of activities and experiences. So what you will find is that perhaps some of the rural areas of the Province may not have done as well as some other areas. It depends on what the interests of the traveler are. There certainly would be some communities that would not have done as well as others.

MR. JACKMAN: I think one of the things that we saw this year, in terms of what the Deputy Minister just said, is that certain areas of the Province we saw getting increased traffic at particular times. For example, with the number of icebergs that we had come in this year, going out the Bay Bulls shoreline, out that way, we saw an early visitor arrive. So that might have helped offset some of the other things.

Going down the Trinity Loop, for example, it appears that they had a very good year down there. Numbers were, in fact, up. Whereas in June, it looked like it was going to be down. Then all of a sudden they picked up in July and August.

The reports that we have gotten from the industry are that we have held our own and done fairly well again this past year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, you indicated, I believe, that the Marine Atlantic passengers went down about 10 per cent last year.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, they did.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I would think that was in part due to the $1.50 a litre gasoline, which might have discouraged some people from driving.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, and a surcharge, as well.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: And a surcharge on Marine Atlantic.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Which leads me into my questions, have you had any discussions – you are aware of course, I have seen something put out by you in terms of the Vision –

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, we have.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We have a new vessel that is going to be on the Port aux Basques-North Sydney route this year.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Have you had any discussions with Marine Atlantic about the vessel, what you hope the impacts to be, et cetera?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, we have.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can you tell me the outcome?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes. We have met Mr. Follett. They have a new CEO there, Mr. Wayne Follett. I am taking Marine Atlantic from two perspectives. One, is that we are certainly hoping to see improved service this year because of the new Vision that is on. Secondly, last year, added to the two challenges that you stated, there were the numerous mechanical breakdowns.

So we have met with them, and this is the way I would put it to Marine Atlantic: As a people of the Province, I still think that the majority of people think that Marine Atlantic is an extension of the Trans-Canada, and as such, we will continue to ask for that.

The second part of it is that we have to remember that the majority of Marine Atlantic people that work there are Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Mr. Wayne Follett is, he is from down in my area, he is from Grand Bank. His interest is making sure that the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador get a quality service. He also wants to make sure that the visitor who travels on Marine Atlantic has a good experience. So we have been saying to him, first and foremost, let's take a look at the amenities that are offered there. Let's attempt to ensure that from the time that someone steps onto that ferry, that it is a part of the Newfoundland and Labrador experience.

We have been speaking with Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador, we have met with Marine Atlantic, we have people in our department that meet with Marine Atlantic on a regular basis, and so therefore, we have spoken about that.

One of the things that they are looking at this year, too, is revising their schedule so that their arrival times on the Island will be different, and that they do not find themselves in a situation where they are continuously rushed because of breakdowns, and you have waiting and backups and so on and so forth.

I have to say, that to this point the discussions with Marine Atlantic have been very encouraging. I think Mr. Follett brings with him a new type of approach, a very upfront type of approach but one that will in the end, I think, provide us with a better quality service with Marine Atlantic.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, Mr. Follett, of course, is just new in the position, relatively new as the President and CEO.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: There has always been a difference of opinion as to what the purpose of Marine Atlantic was. Some people who have run it felt that it was only to move freight, principally freight, not only, but principally to move cargo from the mainland to Newfoundland and that the tourist industry should be secondary, and they treated it as such.

I reference the stewardship of Sid Hynes, who was the skipper, and not only a skipper, master mariner, but also President and CEO for a while and chairman of the board. Many felt that his hand at the tiller was: let's get the freight across the Gulf and the tourism industry is second.

Now Mr. Follett, as I understand, comes from an administrative service oriented background in terms of Coast Guard and DFO movement of a service or provision of a service as opposed to the tourist industry either. Has he given you any indication of where he is going to come down on these two sides, cargo versus tourist industry?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, my meetings with him is that, first and foremost, I think he feels that if we are going to do something positive here we have to start to rebuild the reputation of Marine Atlantic.

Also, I would say that while he recognizes that we have to move goods and services, I think he is equally committed to ensuring that the resident and the non-resident traveller that steps foot on those vessels, they get a quality experience as well. The thing that I am impressed with is that he is very open to meeting with us and hearing the suggestions that we are putting forward.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In addition to agreeing to meet with you, does Marine Atlantic ask for or accept any advice or do you offer any advice with respect to the scheduling? Because the tourists that I have met, personally, and that is my district, so I happen to see a lot of people who come off the boats there, have coffee with them at the coffee shops and so on, just to see what their experience was. Many of them feel that it is not fair because Marine Atlantic dumps them off, for example, in Port aux Basques at 2:00 o'clock in the morning, and vise versa, dumps them off in North Sydney at 2:00 o'clock in the morning. People are saying: just a minute now, we all know we have problems with the moose on our roads and here we are dumping 500 cars at 2:00 o'clock in the morning on the highways.

Now, it is a problem because - the local chalets, bed and breakfasts and hotels love it because the people who do not want to go on the road have a hotel booked. So it is good in that perspective, but from a safety perspective there has been a lot of tourists who just do not want to put up with that and will not come for that reason, because of the scheduling.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, and that is a discussion that we have had. Like I have already said, one of the things that we had a discussion about, and it is not so much that we brought it up as I recall him bringing it up, was that the landing times are something that they are looking at. Now I have not seen their finalized schedule yet but I would anticipate that you will see some moves in that direction this year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Have you made or have you been asked to make to the federal government, by Marine Atlantic, any representations in writing or verbally to the federal Minister of Transport to help out with the Marine Atlantic intention of fleet renewal? Because they have the new Vision which is only a leased job. The Caribou and the Smallwood are twenty years old. That is part of the problem for the maintenance repairs you referenced from last year, mechanical breakdowns. Have you been asked or have you done anything?

MR. JACKMAN: I have not been asked by Marine Atlantic. We have done our own representation.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: To the federal government?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes. Because one of the things that we are aware of right now is that we have the new Vision on, there is a sister ship to the Vision that is out there and I think we need to keep that front and center in our mind because barring how this works out, we need to push and see where we can go with getting possibly a second one. What impresses me about the Vision currently is there are enough accommodation spaces on there for all people who get on-board of it. You will not have people lying around and sleeping sitting up and everything else that any of us who have travelled on it would have noted.

So certainly, representation, like I said from the outset, to the federal government on two ends; one, that we feel as a Province it is a link that should be established because it is an extension of the Trans-Canada and second, to the fact that we need better ships. I mean we, in the Province, are replacing our own fleet of ferries because we are saying that they are ancient. I do not think that we should expect anything less of the federal government because our Marine Atlantic fleets are getting ancient as well.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just to be a bit more specific, minister, have you talked on the phone, e-mails, letters to the minister?

MR. JACKMAN: I have spoken to federal officials on this matter.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Has there been any written correspondence from our department to the federal government?

MR. JACKMAN: Oh, there has definitely been written correspondence.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Could you undertake to provide us with copies of that?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, just to go back, you mentioned that the Gulf crossing should be considered as part of the TCH.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: There is a longstanding complaint from the people of the Province about the cost of getting across the Gulf, particularly when Marine Atlantic tax on their surcharges and everything else, it makes it worse.

MR. JACKMAN: I am glad to see they have removed that as of this point.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: They have, and very nice to see.

It has been a position of many of the tourists agencies, I do believe Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador and so on, and certainly the unions and a lot of people who travel, that the cost of travelling the Gulf on the ferry should be the same as it would take you to drive the same distance by vehicle.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In other words, it is a subsidized service by the federal government and why should you have to pay $30 to get across if you could drive the 100 kilometres that it is, or ninety miles that it is, for $8? The federal government should subsidize it. Do you agree with that, that that should be the criteria that the feds would apply?

MR. JACKMAN: Certainly. Since I have been in this department, and I have not run across anybody yet in this Province who feels that it should not be a service that the federal government provides as an extension of the Trans-Canada. However they arrive at getting to that is irrelevant to me, as to the point that it should be a service that is extended to the people of this Province as being a part of this country.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, Marine Atlantic has agreed to put the Vision, or decided to put the Vision on the North Sydney-Port aux Basques route for this year.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: There are talks that they are going to put it on the Argentia service next year. My understanding, from talking to people within the company, is the reason is to test and see where the ship actually fits in terms of marketing because they have 198 cabins.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Whereas, the Gulf route is only five, six hours versus the Argentia route, which is eighteen hours, they may maximize their profits if they put it on a longer run. In other words, if you go from North Sydney to Argentia, because it is eighteen hours they might buy a cabin, one of the 198 cabins, but they are not going to spend the money to buy a cabin to go from North Sydney to Port aux Basques, certainly not on a day crossing.

Have you been approached by anybody so far in this Province to switch the Vision from the Port aux Basques route to the Argentia route this year?

MR. JACKMAN: No.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay, because there is some suggestion out there that there was lobbying going on to have the route changed this year.

MR. JACKMAN: I can unequivocally say to you that I have not been approached; it is as simple as that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Just to switch gears here now – excuse me; I have a head cold, folks. I don't normally sound like this. Besides that, I lost my hearing in the pressure from the plane when I came in.

Minister, can you give us some idea of why the Labrador Games were cancelled? What transpired around that whole deal?

MR. JACKMAN: It is not that they were cancelled; it is that they were postponed for a year.

Well, let's put it this way: There were discussions ongoing in Labrador about holding the Games. There were a couple of factors that came into play. One was that they were getting close to having critical time in order to pull the Games together. There was a committee that was put in place. The committee then approached us as to postponing them until another year, and we agreed with them. There was a $500,000 allocation in the budget last year. That has been re-profiled to this year; however, we did give them $35,000 to spend on some preparatory work and getting ready for 2010.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So, is it on scale now for next year? Is it on the go?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, it is.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Is it being downsized or anything, from what was anticipated originally?

MR. JACKMAN: No. We have budgeted the same thing, the $500,000 as was allocated previously.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Was there any response from the Aboriginal Sport Council to the postponement?

MR. JACKMAN: Not that I am aware of. We dealt primarily with the committee, and we acted in agreement with the recommendation that they brought forward.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, I will be switching gears on you here fairly quickly.

MR. JACKMAN: That is fine.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We have heard some issues, complaints, whatever, about the core funding that used to go to some tourism corporations around the Province. Apparently that no longer exists. It is my understanding that, instead of any core funding, the money now goes to groups like distance Newfoundland, I do believe, and distance Labrador, instead.

MR. JACKMAN: Destination.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Destination, excuse me.

We know, for example, that the Labrador West Tourism Corporation ended up being inactive for a year as a result of this issue. Is there any thought of reconsidering this strategy and maybe providing some core funding?

MR. JACKMAN: I will let Mary Taylor-Ash speak to it; but, before she does, I want to just speak to the tourism funding and whatnot.

If I see it from a department, and I look at the money that is going out, you will see a small amount going to this group, something going that group, and we have varied groups across the Province that are getting these pots of money.

My thought on it is that somehow or another we have to take a look at where we are going to get the total best bang for our buck. If that comes through a destination marketing organization where we pool the money, and then that gets collapsed into a larger planning exercise for a particular area, then I think that is where it needs to be.

We have been working with Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador and speaking with the tourism associations and looking for the best way forward, but I will get Mary to speak to the specifics as of this immediate moment.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: In 2004 there was a study that was completed on product development in the Province; it is called A Special Place A Special People. Within that, the strategy really articulated a new model for how tourism should be organized in the Province; because, as you point out, we had many regional tourism associations.

Now, just to clarify something, most of those regional tourism associations were never funded by the Province. Some of their projects received some funding, but they were never core funded by the Province; they were typically core funded through the federal agencies like ACOA, and there were an awful lot of them that existed. So it was thought that a better system could be put in place for tourism organization, and grass roots organizations, and that really developed into the emergence of these destination marketing organizations that we now see existing.

So there is a Western Destination Marketing Organization, there is a Central one, and there is Destination St. John's which covers the Eastern Region.

MR. JACKMAN: (Inaudible).

MS TAYLOR-ASH: And Labrador, as the minister is saying.

The only one that we provide what would be called core funding from our department is Destination Labrador, and we provided $100,000 to Destination Labrador over the last three years. They just get that money, and they also get money through ACOA, to do their activities. In the current budget it has been approved now to increase that to $150,000 so that they can indeed do more activities in Labrador.

With the other Destination Marketing Organizations, we do assist them but it is always for them to do marketing, so we partner with them on a number of marketing projects. We have never provided core funding, and we are trying to follow the recommendations in that 2004 report in order to have, I guess, fewer organizations on the ground but still have effective organizations.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I do not want to hog everything. I do not know if the other government members have any questions they might like to ask.

CHAIR: Okay, we can check and see.

Are there any questions from the other Committee members?

Okay, it looks like you are going to have to carry on.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you; not a problem. I just thought that there might be some issue that might concern some member of the government with the department's operations.

Minister, the Province spent, according to what we can pick out of the figures here, $1.4 million on the ads, the Find Yourself Here campaign. That is the figure we delved out of this, the $1.4 million which focused on the Gros Morne National Park and the L'Anse aux Meadows site.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: By the way, I thought it was an excellent job. I said so in the House today. I thought the campaign was well done in terms of the preparation of it. They focused upon those two areas, Gros Morne and L'Anse aux Meadows, as being ideal destinations. That was the whole purpose of the marketing campaign.

Given your focus there, how does your department respond to the Lower Churchill environmental assessment which plans to clear-cut, actually, two football parks, basically, in the park for transmission towers? How do you square those up? There seems to be some issue here.

MR. JACKMAN: First and foremost, I think we recognize there is a process here that has to be gone through. There is going to be an environmental assessment process, and in that process, before any project proceeds, the public of the Province has the opportunity to have their input into what is going to happen. Then, decisions get made after that.

If we listen to the response from Mr. Ed Martin of Nalcor, who said this is a World Heritage Site, a UNESCO site, his comments, from the head of that corporation, say that if we think that is going to threaten that then it will not be done.

My final point on it would be that, before things and projects of that magnitude happen, there is an environmental process that has to be undertaken. The public will have their input into it, and then decisions get made accordingly after that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I appreciate the fact that the public are going to have an input, but my question is: How do you, as the Minister of Tourism - because there are two issues here, or three, actually, in my view. We have an energy generation issue under the Department of Natural Resources, which is going to lead to the environmental assessment being done; we have environmental issues here from the Department of Environment; and, we have tourism issues here in terms of yourself.

Aside from the public, who will get their opportunity to speak on what they think of the possibility of a Lower Churchill transmission line going through the park, what is your view, as a minister of Crown, on that regard, and will you be making commentary? Because you do represent a lot of those people; you do represent every tourist that we hope to attract here, and we have just spent, in one ad campaign alone, $1.4 million to get them here.

MR. JACKMAN: At the government level, people such as Mary Taylor-Ash and the people who work under her in our department, whenever events of this nature happen, we definitely will have input into the process.

As you have indicated, Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador are part of the group that I represent. The tourism industry is part of what I represent. We put Gros Morne out there as one of our premier destinations, and I will certainly be putting forward my opinions on that. I know what your next question will be: What is your opinion?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What is your opinion?

If not the, it is one of the, crown jewels of our tourism industry.

MR. JACKMAN: Well, Sir, as I have said, the environmental process will happen and I, in the end, will expect that the integrity of Gros Morne will remain.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, a review into the Province's Arts and Culture centres was commissioned last year.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, it was.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It came back with several recommendations, one of which you would think - we think, at least - one of the most important being that the Arts and Culture Centres should remain at arm's-length from the Province. Where are you in assessing the overall report and the recommendations that were made?

MR. JACKMAN: I was looking through some of the notes that we had, and last year I believe we said that after this it would be a matter of a few months before the report was out. I believe we had that report finalized somewhere around June or July. As you indicated, there are a number of changes that are recommended there, everything from governance to suggestions around how we can improve programming, how we can improve technology.

What I can say to you at this particular point is that there are some things that we are moving with within the existing budget; for example, how we can get better programming, how we can do more outreach, which is suggested. So we are presently moving on that, and the staff are working on that.

We are still currently in the process of reviewing that. I cannot give you a time frame as to when we will come forward with where we believe we should be moving, other than to say that we are still in the process of reviewing that report.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, while on the subject of Arts and Culture Centres, just two questions, I guess, more of a specific nature. We had an issue last year and we raised it in the House, I believe, in Question Period, and I certainly raised it privately with you as well –

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - about wheelchair accessibility at the St. John's Arts and Culture Centre, so that persons with disabilities could access the stage.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I am wondering if you could provide us with an update as to what happened there.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

One of the things that have happened - we have explored a number of possibilities. Under the report that came down, in terms of the infrastructure overall we need to do some work. I recall the question that you asked; I believe it was specific to someone attending a graduation. We certainly want to do that.

I will say that the building is accessible; it is just that right now if we are to get someone to the floor we have to go through measures of using the service elevator, and so on and so forth.

We have met with MUN to take a look at some of the things that we can do. I am not 100 per cent certain if some of the work has been done, but there is some move to put in handrails, and so on and so forth, those types of things. We are looking at an option whereby we may be able to put a different entrance in the building to make it more accessible. So, as we move ahead with that report, I certainly hope that we can move ahead with remedying the situation to everybody's satisfaction.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So, Minister, I am correct when I say that the issue that we brought to your attention last year about the disabled graduate not being able to access the stage has not, to this point, been rectified.

MR. JACKMAN: Other than as I said to you; some matters have been dealt with to address some issues, but this one in particular is still as it is.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The report itself, do you have any problem with providing us with a copy of the report on the Arts and Culture Centres?

MR. JACKMAN: I cannot see why there would be an issue with it.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Just for the record, Mr. Chair, too. The secretary to the committee usually keeps a list of the various undertakings that are made and we usually get copied with that after, so that we can follow up with the department to make sure that we get each one in turn.

MR. JACKMAN: I note you mentioned earlier that you understand from the report that the recommendation is that the Arts and Culture Centres be operated at arm's-length?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

MR. JACKMAN: So am I to understand that somewhere along the way you have seen the report or you have some indication as to what is in the report?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No. We have, I guess, the old brown envelope pieces, inside information and stuff like that.

MR. JACKMAN: So am I to understand that you might have most of the report?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No, incorrect. We have certain information which - again, that is why I preface my remarks by asking the question because we do not know if half of the information you get is reliable and I do not want to be saying anything if it is not reliable. If it is not, I would certainly appreciate you rectifying that it is not reliable. The ultimate test, of course, is to ask for the report? If you get it then it is black on white, and that is why I ask.

Just a little side issue here, minister, the renaming of the Gander Arts and Culture Centre, is there any fallout from that since? It seemed to be a bit of a local issue where the manager did not want you to change the name of it and the government said: Well, tough, and it got changed. Mind you now, I personally have no problem.

MR. JACKMAN: I hope you would not have a problem with Mr. Smallwood.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Calling it the Joseph R. Smallwood Centre is not a problem with me, personally.

MR. JACKMAN: No, we have not had any fallout from it. As a matter of fact, I have to say that the ceremony that took place there, I thought it was quite a tasteful ceremony and an enjoyable one, I have to say.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

The annual report for 2007-2008 for your department, you referenced a few of the comments from that report in your introductory remarks tonight.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It says that the reorganization within the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation was necessary in order to fully implement the recreation and sports strategy and to address certain deficits in key infrastructure as well. Can you elaborate on that a bit, the actual restructuring and advise what exactly was done?

MR. JACKMAN: No, I cannot give you the details on what is to be done because the report is near completion. When I say to you that it is months out, it is not months out. It is in the very near stage of being submitted. So, for me to make comments on it, other than - I do not think there is ever a time that there is anything wrong with us re-evaluating or taking a look at a particular division to see if indeed there are things that we can improve.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. Correct me if I am wrong here, I was under the impression from the report, which is out, the 2007-2008 report -

MR. JACKMAN: Oh, no, I am talking about the consultant report.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No, all I am referring to is your -

MR. JACKMAN: Okay, okay.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - tabled report of 2007-2008 which says that reorganization was taking place in your department and the reasons why. I am just wondering, is the reorganization complete I guess?

MR. JACKMAN: No, it is not.

MS DUKE: If I might answer that. We have contracted a consultant to -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Consultant's report that is what I am talking about.

MS DUKE: Yes, this is what the minister is referring to. I am sorry there was some confusion there.

One of the recommendations of the active living report, the one that you are referring to, was that we look within our department to ensure that we have the resources and the expertise and so on to be able to implement the strategy. So we have contracted an external consultant who is completing a review of the division, and that is the report that the minister refers to. That is almost complete.

MR. JACKMAN: Sorry about that, there are too many reports.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No problem.

Minister, the annual report again, the 2007-2008 annual report that was tabled, also references a review of the provincial signage.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I guess that is a perennial problem we have had with signage in the Province. I remember going back long before I ever got involved in politics with squabbles over signage. We have learned that this will involve an overhaul actually of every sign in the Province. It is going to be that comprehensive, is that correct? Could you give us some idea of where we are on that signage piece?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, what we are looking at is - you are right in saying that it is has been problematic. The review that I have done of it and working with the department on it is that there has been a number of attempts to tackle the problem. Second, I do not think there is anyway to avoid it if we are going to do justice to our tourism industry.

When you see reports come out and exit surveys, and you have the industry telling you that one of the top items that you need to deal with is signage, we have no choice but to deal with it. If not, we are doing an injustice to our tourism industry and our travelling public, both resident and non-resident. Yes, we will be moving forward with a plan.

We, as a government, have adopted the TODS system, which is Tourist-Oriented Directional Signage. What we will be doing is putting in place a committee to develop the plan as to how we move forward with that. In the end, we will be hopefully moving forward with that in terms of it is an internationally recognized signage system which will benefit the tourism industry in the Province. So we will be moving ahead with that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Any idea on the timelines?

MR. JACKMAN: You can expect to see some things happening this spring.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In terms of actual signs on the highway?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That soon?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, apparently there was a review, or an audit I guess, done of the study of the MusicNL by your department. Can you give us some details surrounding that?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, I cannot give you the specifics of it right now. I have some of the details but I have to get more detail on that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We understand there was a specific study or report done concerning MusicNL, where we fit into it as a Province –

MS DUKE: I am afraid that I am not terribly familiar with that because I am fairly new to the department as well, but my understanding is that we did provide some funding and MusicNL have produced a strategic plan. So it was a strategic planning exercise for the industry.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

MR. JACKMAN: They are doing it internally.

MS DUKE: They are doing it internally, yes. We did certainly provide some support and are very engaged with them on that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So it was not the government that -

MS DUKE: No.

MR. JACKMAN: No, that is why I had to wait and see. No.

MS DUKE: Yes, that is my understanding anyway.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I appreciate the clarification.

Where is your department with respect to the status on the artists' research issues? Including there are artists (inaudible) and some things like that, a whole pile of new taxation policies regarding artists and so on.

MR. JACKMAN: Well, I cannot give you a specific answer. I would have to get some information and follow up with you on that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Quite often we hear, in the tourist industry in particular, about labour force shortcomings. Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador have often spoken about it and that it plagues the industry from time to time.

What is the status right now in terms of the labour issues vis-à-vis tourism, the ability of tourist operators to attract labour and so on? Has there been any involvement of government in trying to deal with this issue, and if so, how?

MR. JACKMAN: Do you want to answer that or do you want me?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: There are labour issues in the tourism industry from, I guess, a couple of perspectives. One is that it typically has been viewed as an industry of last resort. So it is typically viewed not always – that is not always reality, but the perception is that people are lower paid. So we have struggled with that. When I say we, we work very closely with the industry on this. Then there are specific areas within the Province that have seen some outmigration and have had some difficulty in getting people working there.

We support Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador, who really have a mandate for professional development and recruitment. We provide them with funding and we partner with them to help them in a number of initiatives around that particular, sort of the broad piece of professional development. We provide them funding without – and this would be a bit of a ballpark, but maybe to the tune of about $50,000 a year, specifically to make sure that they are really helping operators in terms of recruitment. We are not directly involved in that.

One other thing I will mention, which is a very big initiative for us right now, is our tourism vision, which you have perhaps heard about. We have just developed a tourism vision – we, again, being government and industry. We have identified seven strategic directions. One of those strategic directions is around the labour market and people, and finding some ways to engage more people in the tourism industry, and the right kind of skilled people in the tourism industry.

So, through the tourism board, which is just being established now, a private-public sector partnership, it is one of the areas that we will be addressing even more.

MR. JACKMAN: I think the thing too, is that it is an issue that not only the tourism industry faces; it is becoming more of a challenge in many other sectors. I think the key point here is – I can use some examples of a tourist site that I went to that have moved into becoming very professional, and as a result the business return that they seem to be getting is good, and they are paying their workers above the minimum wage.

So, I think the key to this is going to be, those who get out there, be inventive and creative and get ahead of the game. They are going to be the ones that will have the people.

MS DUKE: I might just add a couple of other points. Our department is also working with other departments of government who are focusing on labour market. The Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment is doing quite a bit of research on the labour market and have rolled out a number of activities and strategies that we are engaged in, one of which is the Youth Retention Attraction Strategy and looking at ways that we can keep young people in the Province, certainly attract them and keep them. Also, they have their immigration strategy.

There are a couple of things that government is doing across the board, which certainly would impact the hospitality industry, just as it would other industries. So we, as a department, do work with other departments on some of those strategies to make sure that our stakeholder group are engaged.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, regarding the issue of tourist education programs, that sector for many, many years - of course, I know out my way I personally heard some people complain about the service they got on Marine Atlantic and the staff were not up to snuff in terms of service and quality of service and so on. Restaurants around the Province, some people said we are lacking sometimes in terms of how the staff are trained to deal with someone who comes into a licensed establishment and so on. No doubt, different groups, Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador I know put off several programs to try to improve that, whereby employers in the industry would have an opportunity to take advantage of some educational training programs to make everybody better.

It is our understanding that there have been a number of attempts and offerings for tourism sector education programs here but that it is in severe decline in terms of enrolment. The information we have is that there is a severe decline in enrolment in the tourism sector education programs. Are you aware of this, and has this been dealt with in your department?

MR. JACKMAN: No, I am not aware that there is declining enrolment. I know that from a department we are actively working with College of the North Atlantic in one particular case to see how we can get more of the programming in there. I noticed through some of the ads on TV that some of the private schools are still offering those programs but I am not aware that numbers have declined in that, but it is certainly something that I would not mind looking into.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, our information is that it is principally the private operators that are having problems attracting people and I am wondering if it might be as a result of the comment that your Assistant Deputy Minister made in regards to – it is considered an employee of last resort, sort of thing, and maybe that is the reason?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: It has always been challenging to sell training programs to the tourism industry, simply because not all people think they need to have training. There is no question that the programs that do get offered, when you speak to the Tourism Industry Association, Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador, they are somewhat challenged. However, they are and we are addressing some of the challenges by providing support to them by offering more things on-line so that it makes it easier for people to be able to access the programs. We also tried to deal with that from a cost perspective. We have what we call a market readiness program. If you are a tourism operator, we will give you 25 per cent of your expenses if you go and take a training program. So we try to offer incentives to address that issue as well.

It would not be a new issue that there is not always a lot of take up on training programs. I think it is really now that the industry is looking very much at ways to deal with that, whether it is in the delivery or in incentives to be able to assist. Then there are other programs like the Gros Morne institute for Sustainable Tourism, which operates, obviously, out of Gros Morne. They have offered some very well received and very well attended programs out there.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The minister is waiting for the light.

MR. JACKMAN: I have seen it a few times.

I think there is one thing that is key to this, if you followed our tourism vision, we are looking at doubling the revenue generated within tens years, doubling it from $840 million to nearly $2 billion. One of the parts to that plan is professionalizing the industry. The industry, as I said, we are advertising to the Internet and a lot of our users are not onto that. So getting this industry to double its revenue means that we are going to have to professionalize it. I think the way we can do that is to work as closely as we can with the industry, and that is what the tourism vision plan is about.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, the issue about the cancellation of the flight to London, a lot of feedback in the media on that some months ago. Is anything happening now from a tourism perspective to try to get that back on track with any of the operators?

MR. JACKMAN: As far as I know at this particular point, there has not been anything finalized, but I know that across several departments there are ongoing discussions to see if there is something that we can do. As of this point, as of the latest that I have known, there has not been anything finalized.

MS DUKE: If I might add to the minister's comments, I guess it was the Department of Transportation and Works did commission a study earlier this year on air access and that study has been completed and has been released publicly. The Department of Business has now been appointed as the lead in terms of doing a consultation and getting comments from stakeholders about the results of the study and it is a commitment of government now to develop an air access strategy. There are four departments of government that are involved: the Department of Business; Transportation and Works; Innovation, Trade and Rural Development; and the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

So we expect that some time this year, hopefully, we will have an air access strategy that will be released.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I appreciate that. Sometimes it is difficult for us to know who is doing what. That is very informative.

Minister, we had the destruction of the King George V and the indoor soccer field here in St. John's some time ago. Obviously, devastating blows to the soccer associations. Are there any plans or any monies in the budget to assist with the repairs that are required? If so, how much and what –

MR. JACKMAN: $20,000.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That is total for – there are two facilities, as I understand it, that had an issue, wasn't it?

MR. JACKMAN: The King George V pitch.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Right, and was there another field that had an issue?

MR. JACKMAN: Not that I am aware of..

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Maybe I am misinformed.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, you go ahead, Jimmy.

MR. TEE: Yes, the other facility is the indoor facility. That is down in Pleasantville.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That is my understanding, yes. Is the total $20,000 for the repairs on both or $20,000 for each facility?

MR. JACKMAN: (Inaudible) $20,000 for King George V.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Have you been asked to support the other repairs?

MR. JACKMAN: No. That is a private enterprise.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Just a few specifics here. The Labrador Interpretation Centre had some problems due to lack of water and sewage at their Gateway Labrador building and I understand that was brought to your attention. Is it still a problem, or was funding provided or will funding be provided?

MR. JACKMAN: I know at that particular time when it came forward they relocated to the Arts and Culture Centre and set up some services there. I do not have the latest at hand here right now but I can certainly get that and provide it.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I appreciate that.

Minister –

MR. JACKMAN: Mary, could you –

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The Gateway Centre, to my understanding, because I was just in Labrador recently, both ACOA and INTRD have been approached and are in the process of working on finding a solution for that problem.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, there has been an increase in fees at The Rooms from, I believe, $5 to $7.50. Is there any particular rationale for that?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, if we look at charges at comparable institutions, if I could call it that, these would not be out of whack. As with all other things, there are increasing expenses and as such, The Rooms have raised their fees.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Do you think the fee increase might be a deterrent to the number of people who will attend?

MR. JACKMAN: I do not think so, and indications are that numbers have not been impacted by it. So I do not think it is a deterrent. I think The Rooms is a wonderful facility that has much to offer. Any time that I see anyone I encourage them to make sure they take a visit. Maybe I am promoting it as much as anyone else. If we get everyone else who has visited there to suggest to a friend or two to go visit there that certainly would help The Rooms, but I do not think at this particular time it has been a deterrent.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I wonder if you might give us an update, shall we say, on the Mealy Mountain Park. Where are we with that right now?

MR. JACKMAN: I cannot speak to the full details on it because this would be through the Department of Environment, which is the lead department on that. I know there are some recommendations that have been brought back to the steering committee and I cannot say specifically where they are at this particular time. That would be an issue that you should raise with the Department of Environment.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

I am not sure, Mr. Chair, if there are any government members who have any questions at this time. We are an hour-and-thirty minutes into this. I would not want to overlook them, of course.

CHAIR: I can ask again if government members have any questions for the minister.

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Chair, I have a question for you.

Do you have a description of Estimates meetings, the kind of protocol for Estimates meetings there with you? Just in terms of length, duration, content, anything like that?

CHAIR: No, unless you have a question that you want to ask, you may do so. Speaking to the Estimates or something -

MR. DALLEY: No question. I was curious as to whether there were any documents actually available in terms of Estimates meetings, for my own knowledge.

CHAIR: Yes.

Okay, Mr. Parsons, you may proceed again.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Just to continue here. Regarding the T'Railways, we have received a great deal of feedback from people around the Province, actually, most of it negative feedback of the extension of the T'Railway to abandoned roads and bridges in some cases in many areas of the Province. We learned about the Burin Loop project. I understand that is down in the minister's neck of the woods as well, and imagine that you might yourself be facing some pushback on the issue of the sticker issue and the enforcement issue, despite the worthiness of the project.

Can you comment on what you feel about the whole T'Railway issue, the sticker requirements? Is there any other, better way to fund the activities of snowmobile users, for example, the federation and get some more consensus around this issue?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, at present, the system is as is. The Snowmobile Federation collects the fees and the trail network that is in place – when I think about people who invest huge amounts in these expensive machines they want a good system of trail network.

I think there is a safety issue as well, that we do ensure that these trails are maintained and as such, the system that is in place is still standing. Where it will be in the future remains to be seen, but the Snowmobile Federation - snowmobilers in the Province in 2004 asked for this and were granted this. So I suppose it comes down to a thing such as if we have snowmobilers in the Province who want a good trail to ride on, then we would expect that they would pay the fees, and through the Snowmobile Federation and the grooming network that we have, then that system of trails will be provided.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, we raised some questions in the House today concerning this being the sixtieth anniversary of Confederation for the Province and to ask if there was anything in particular being done to commemorate the occasion. Any particular reason why we did not?

MR. JACKMAN: I think today in Question Period the Premier adequately addressed that. That question was posed by the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, and you are well aware of it, the Premier's response was very political, as one would expect in Question Period.

My question is: Was there ever any thought given in your department to a possible celebration of the sixtieth anniversary, forgetting about the Stephen Harpers of the world or anybody else? Was there any thought given by your department to possibly having some kind of celebration as part of the Bob Bartlett and the Cupids piece or whatever else, or a stand alone piece, because it was going to be the diamond jubilee?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, as a department, as I outlined in my initial comments, we have a number of celebrations that are taking place this year. We discuss across the department celebrations all the time, as to what we would do. This one being no different, but as a government, as I said the Premier's answer today – personally, in light of the happenings as related to the helicopter crash, one in particular, I would not be one who would feel like celebrating at this particular time as to what it might be, but as we give some time to heal, I certainly would.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes. I fully appreciate the comments about the current environment, given the crash. I fully appreciate the Premier's explanation vis-à-vis how he feels about the federal government. I agree that it would not be an appropriate time to do it in the current environment, including casualties that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have suffered in war, which was another reason given.

My question does not relate to whether I think it was appropriate or not. My question was: Was there any thought given – before any of this happened, before the crash happened, going back. These things usually take months and months of preparation. My question is: Did you put any thought or was there any thought given to the possibility of having a sixtieth celebration?

MR. JACKMAN: As I said, we have discussions from time to time on various celebrations. In regards to this one in particular, I will be upfront with you, no.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, to really, really localize this, I guess as the MHA for the Port aux Basques area, we have the –

MR. JACKMAN: We are not having Canada Day Celebrations in Port aux Basques.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: With regard to the tourist chalet in Port aux Basques, your department did a fantastic job with infrastructure improvements there.

MR. JACKMAN: It is probably one of the best in the Province now.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It is a very, very good showcase for the entry to the Province and it is not lost on the tourist, either, I might add, nor the local population, and it is much appreciated by the people there, and certainly by the employees who work there.

Are there any variations in 2009 versus 2008 with regard to hours of staffing and the number of employees? The reason I ask that is, it is always a major issue with the tourists again; because I have had cases where friends, actually, who worked at the tourist chalet over the years did not like to work in the night by themselves, and we had issues where there may have been one person working at 1:00 o'clock or 2:00 o'clock in the morning –

MR. JACKMAN: Yes, we have discussed that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: – to accommodate the travelling public; yet, you did not know who was coming off the boat. So there were safety issues and concerns, and there were some concerns in the past that they liked to have two, at least, rather than one.

A lot of tourists have indicated, through our Chamber of Commerce, and through fellows like myself, through e-mails: Well, what is the good of having a ferry schedule such that the boat drops us all off in Port aux Basques at 2:00 o'clock in the morning and there is no tourist chalet open?

That is why I ask the questions in terms of staffing and hours. That is always a concern.

MR. JACKMAN: Just before Mary answers, there is one thing: If we see changes in Marine Atlantic scheduling then we are going to have to adjust our scheduling accordingly. Secondly, the issue that you raised about safety is one that we have discussed at the department level as well.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: I just have to preface this by: Port aux Basques does have the flagship Visitor Information Centre in all the Province and we are looking right now at how to deal with issues of people working alone, and hours of work. That is a concern for us.

We have not worked out our entire schedule for this summer, and how we will deal with the combination of students and regular employees, but we are working our way through that. We want to make sure that we meet the needs of the customer, and we want to make sure that our employees are feeling in a safe, secure, environment.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just a question that cropped up very recently, actually, in terms of employment. Apparently the guidelines are, right now, that in order to be employed at the centre you have to be a university student.

I stand to be corrected, but my staff tells me that if you want to work there, for example - and generally, if you get hired, you are there for three years, I do believe, and that is good because you have the turnover; you do not have to educate somebody every year as to the industry.

My understanding is that a high school student, for example, Grade 12, who is graduating to go to university, would not qualify for the job, whereas someone in university would. Is that correct?

MR. JACKMAN: I am not certain on that. I have not delved into the details. I have not had it raised with me, but it is something -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I am just wondering if maybe someone can clarify that for us, because several of the graduates, of course, their views are: We are going to university in September, so why shouldn't we qualify as well as someone who just finished the first year?

Now, maybe they are totally off base but we could not get an answer to that quickly, so maybe somebody can provide it to us.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: A few questions, and these are on behalf of Ms Michael who could not be here, referring in particular to heading - and this is back to the Estimates book again, for 2009 - item 3.1.01 on page 170.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Excuse me, I have that wrong; it is 3.1.06. That is on page 172 and it talks about historic sites development.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Bear with me, because I did not prepare these notes and I am trying to decipher the reading here. It appears the question is - there has been $1 million that was allotted in 2007-2008 for the Colonial Building in particular and the money was not spent.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: It was budgeted again in 2008-2009 and not spent. Apparently it is there again this year for the Colonial Building. What is going on with the Colonial Building, such that the money is not being spent?

MR. JACKMAN: Before we could move ahead with the actual groundwork there had to be some consultant work done around developing things in terms of the interpretative plan and infrastructure planning, so that work has been completed. We have re-profiled $275,000 of that $1 million and you can expect to see that Phase 1 will have some work ongoing. You will see more intense work happening this year.

What we are looking at, infrastructure work that I am talking about, is: make sure that we install an elevator, that the electrical is done, that the base of it is structurally sound. That work will start, I would say, within the next two to three months.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just to bring me up to date here, and I apologize for my ignorance on this issue, on its current status, Chief Justice Wells, who retired today, by the way, as the Chief Justice, was a big advocate of having the Colonial Building used as a Court of Appeal. He was advocating for years and years and years. He had a certain number of backers. I know when I was in Justice he made several appeals and so on to get it done and it never got done.

Has there been any talk by anybody since to use it as a courthouse, or have you definitively decided what it is going to be used for?

MR. JACKMAN: Well, since I have been in this division I have not discussed it with anyone. I think we owe it to the people of the Province to restore that. One thing is that we certainly hope that the federal government will help us out in this. I mean, this is as much a national treasure as it is a provincial one, I do believe; but, to directly answer your question, from my perspective, and the discussions that I have had, there have been no discussions with me to have that as a Court of Appeal.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, back to the Estimates book, item 2.1.02 on page 169, Strategic Product Development.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: According to the information I have, there have been lots of people hired and there is $471,000 in Grants and Subsidies.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What is that money being used for?

MR. JACKMAN: One of the things is what Mary Taylor mentioned before: we have $150,000 of that is going to Destination Labrador. We also have grants that go out to the VICs, somewhere around $130,000 or so. We also put $100,000 into the East Coast Trail network, a thing that we committed to last year, for five years. Those are a few of the projects that are in there.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Now that you have explained that is what the $471,000 would be used for, artisans, for example, who want to get into some form of product development, that is obviously not included in that.

MR. JACKMAN: No.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Where would we look to find that information, or is there any money being provided to artisans who might want to get into product development?

MS DUKE: There are actually a couple of mechanisms. We do provide funding to the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, and on our behalf they do provide grants to artists on the creative side, whether it is in film, writing, visual and performing arts. We also have more of an economic development program called our Cultural Economic Development Program and we do provide grants as well. We have one program for the arts sector and the second one for the heritage sector, so there is an opportunity there as well to provide assistance.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

In the Estimates book again, item 3.1.04 on page 171, The Rooms, they are apparently being told there is an extra $528,700 in that count, and yet we have the fees gone up. What was the increase for?

MR. JACKMAN: Not only have they availed of the money that has come from the increased fees, but we are providing them with an additional $250,000 this year as well. Operating expenses at The Rooms have gone up, and as such there are a couple of ways that we can do it. We can continue to raise the fees or we can step in and help out as a government. In addition to that, we have put in $250,000 as well.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just so I understand the process of how it works, The Rooms Corporation operate the facility.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Staff, wages, cleaning, whatever, that they have to pay.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I am assuming that the corporation would prepare a budget, and they would come to your department and say: Here is our budget.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: We are going to have a shortfall this year, based on expenditure increases, as you said, and the shortfall is going to be x dollars.

Do you then say: Look, you have a $300,000 shortfall; we are going to give you $250,000 and that is it - which led to The Rooms increasing their prices - or, do The Rooms come to you and say, as part of their budget presentation: We have a shortfall. We are recommending we are going to increase our price to $7.50 from $5.00. That still leaves us a $2.50 shortfall. Will you give us the money?

How does it work, that they have to make a decision to raise their prices? Because obviously, I would think, if the government were prepared to put the whole cost increase in there, these people would not want to go out increasing their fees. How does that happen?

MR. JACKMAN: I think no one wants to see fee increases ever, but what The Rooms would do in terms of raising their fees, they have gone out and researched other institutions, for example, what the Geo Centre pays and what the centre in Charlottetown might pay, and then they make a judgement based on that.

First and foremost they say our fees are not out of whack with others, and even with this raise we will still be below what other institutions may charge, so they raise it based on that.

Secondly, then, in terms of shortfalls, they come to us as a department and ask for money. As a result, this year we approved $250,000 additional.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That is what I am trying to get at in terms of process. They are expected to come up with their source funding themselves the best way possible. They make a decision on a fee increase, and when they have a shortfall determined then they come to you. It is not the other way around where you say this is all we are prepared to give you; you have to go jack your prices up.

MR. JACKMAN: No, no.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay, I just want to clarify that.

On item 3.1.05, Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, there has been an increase there of some $215,000.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The reason for that increase?

MR. JACKMAN: This is operational.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

I guess, unlike The Rooms, just to use a comparison, Newfoundland and Labrador Film does not have an option to go and raise the fees to get a certain portion back.

MR. JACKMAN: No.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You either have to fund it or you do not fund it, I guess.

MR. JACKMAN: That is right.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On page 172, subhead 3.1.08, again, Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, under the Capital account, there looks to be an increase of some $1.75 million. Again, an explanation for the increase?

MR. JACKMAN: One of the things that we have done here is, you may recall, in previous years to that $1 million, in last year's budget we provided $750,000 and that was based on the number of projects that they had ongoing. This year they came back - and the volume is always there, it is increasing - so we committed $250,000 to that. Secondly, there is a project that is ongoing right now that, unfortunately, I cannot disclose to you the full details on, but if all things fall through you will be hearing about that before too long.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, to look at things in the overview here now, it looks like overall your department has had a substantial increase in budgetary amounts this year to the tune of about $17 million over last year. That is quite a substantial increase. It seems that most of the gains, as well, or the increases, came in the area of community sports facilities.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I do believe $7.5 million is the figure.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, the infrastructure spending money for sports facilities funnelled through your department, is that a first or was it always under -

MR. JACKMAN: No, this is a unique one. I would like to say we could go back and we would get all extra money and you would support it and say that is wonderful. That $7.5 million is related to the federal stimulus program. So, as the federal government works through its process there, what we have done is we as a government have committed $7.5 million. So that would be on a matching type of project. In the end, it could conceivably be this is a three-way split; if the federal government comes through with their stimulus, and we as a Province, the community, and the federal government.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. I am just curious now why - I still take it, the actual application process, if community A wants a rink, they put in their application as they would through Municipal Affairs -

MR. JACKMAN: I think that - we are working very closely with Municipal Affairs on this. The details have not been worked out here as to how this money would be administered but from my perspective, and I think in discussions with Municipal Affairs, we would be working closely with them so that projects that are in the hopper, if I could put it that way, would be the ones that we will work with Municipal Affairs on.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So traditionally, in terms of the planning, the application process, the approval process, the engineering, the tendering process, everything goes through Municipal Affairs?

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: And, as you say, it is a work split sometimes between the feds, Province and the community.

Why is this one a bit different? Why are we showing the increase going through Tourism this year? Why didn't we just say: well, everything else - because everything else I understand, it remains the same. The engineering, everything is the same. It is going to be the Department of Municipal Affairs that is going to do it.

MR. JACKMAN: Well, I think it very well could end up there. It is just that the details at the federal level have not all been worked out yet, to our understanding. Therefore, in the end, the money that is used here could be used to support projects that are with the Department of Municipal Affairs. It is just that we have to wait and figure out the final details on the federal stimulus package.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Because there is still, it is confusing to the people out there as well who - you talk about shovel ready projects, for example, which the stimulus was supposedly all about. It is confusing, because everybody that I know, certainly in my district that I have dealt with, they go to Municipal Affairs when you have a project. They would not even think - like I would never have thought to say to the Town of Burgeo: well, let's go to the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation to build a rink. I would have said let's go to Municipal Affairs and see where it is.

MR. JACKMAN: I do not think the confusion is on our end. I think if there is either bit of confusion it might be on the federal government. If they straighten out their affairs and get their act in order as to how the stimulus package is going to be all rolled out, then we will work it through it. If there is $7.5 million that is going to come from the federal government, we will have no issue with working with Municipal Affairs and looking at the priority list that they have developed.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No problem with that minister, but with all due respect, it is your government that prepared these budget documents and these estimates. It is your department and your government that decided to put this $7.5 million over under Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

All I am asking is: how do we, or how does the public know this? The town that deals with Municipal Affairs, in all fairness to them, would go to Municipal Affairs for a recreational facility. All I am saying is if we do not have some way of communicating that to them, you have lots of communities out there who are not going to look to your department for that kind of recreational facility financing. I am just saying how do we get that message through to them? It was not the federal government who said put it over under tourism. Somebody made a decision in this government to take their share and said put it in Municipal Affairs, ITRD, Tourism or whatever. I am just concerned, and I have had the concern raised, people come to me all the time and say: Where are the pots of money in government that you might get some funding? I would never, ever tell anybody to go to your department to look for funding for a stadium.

MR. JACKMAN: Well, like I said to you, I do not know how I can answer it other than as we see the stimulus package unfold then - we are not going to operate here in isolation of Municipal Affairs. If anything, over the past three to four weeks we have met with Municipal Affairs on numerous occasions around this particular thing. Right at this point, where to park the money, it was decided to park it right here. Where it will end up to, it is definitely going to be in conjunction with the projects that have come forward through Municipal Affairs.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. It is at least educational now and informative for us to know that you have a pot of money.

MR. JACKMAN: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Now, who accesses it is another different issue or what the criteria is, that is fine, at least we are aware now to ask –

MR. JACKMAN: And if anything changes, we always let the MHAs know.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Are there any other pots of money that came from the federal government, such as this, that have been parked elsewhere that you are aware of that we do not know about.

MR. JACKMAN: No.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

This being stimulus money, now that we know it is parked there, and the stimulus money was supposed to be, hopefully, shovel ready projects, I take it this money has not been earmarked for any particular application to date. This is new money that you have just parked it over there. There are no specific applications that have been made for those facilities.

MS DUKE: Just to add to the minister's comments, we are working very closely with Municipal Affairs on this. I guess at this point, because the projects have to be shovel ready they would be projects that would have already gone through Municipal Affairs. The due diligence would have been completed, and the engineering and architectural work completed and would be shovel ready. So there would not be, very likely, other projects which would come in through our door that would not have already been through theirs.

So I think it would be safe to say that in the first round of funding from the federal government that all the projects that would be funded in Newfoundland and Labrador for recreational infrastructure would very likely be a mirror list to what Municipal Affairs would have. As we go forward, and as the federal government does refine its guidelines and going forward, if there is some flexibility that things could be funded otherwise than through a municipality, through Municipal Affairs. At least by it being in our department we have a little bit of flexibility around that, but that has to be determined.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I have no problem with that. I appreciate the explanations. It is very informative. At least now we know, as MHAs, if you go to Municipal Affairs and it is already going to be a project that is on the books, no doubt, and they tell you – if the Deputy Minister over there says: we have no money; we are all out of money. My question is going to be: Well, what about the $7.5 million over in recreation which we did not know about before?

MS DUKE: I think that is a fair question, and that is something that certainly has been discussed. That if we can use some of the recreational infrastructure money, the new money that is on the table, and replace projects that might have otherwise been funded through municipal capital works or other programs, then that just opens up money that could be used for other things. That is why we need to work together and get the maximum we can out of it.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, that is why I believe in the Estimates process. I think it is a good to and fro. I think questions get asked. I think we get more answers, answers we would never, ever get in a Question Period and answers that only come about in this forum.

That is the end of my questioning, and I appreciate the openness and the candidness of you and your staff in providing these answers. We look forward to the undertakings that you provided as well. I appreciate it very much.

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you very much, Mr. Parsons.

Are there any further questions from the Committee members?

Do the NDP observers have any questions they want to pass on to Mr. Parsons?

Okay.

I will ask the Clerk to call the subheads.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 4.1.02 carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation for 2009-2010 carried without amendment?

All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, 'nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation carried.

CHAIR: Before we adjourn, I would like to thank the minister and his officials, thank the members of the committee, especially Mr. Parsons under the circumstances, and also our observers and the House of Assembly staff as well.

The only other thing I want to mention is that the next meeting for the Resource Committee will be tomorrow morning, and the Committee will be dealing with the Department of Business.

So, a motion is in order now to adjourn.

MR. VERGE: I so move.

CHAIR: Moved by Mr. Verge.

This meeting is now adjourned.

On motion, Committee adjourned.