The Committee met at 6:05 p.m. in the House of Assembly.

CHAIR (Harding): Good evening everyone.

We are ready to begin now. I would like to welcome you all as we debate the Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

First of all, I would ask the members of the Committee to recognize themselves.

MR. VERGE: It is not that I do not recognize myself.

CHAIR: No.

MR. VERGE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Wade Verge, Lewisporte District.

MR. BAKER: Jim Baker, Labrador West District.

MR. DALLEY: Derrick Dalley, The Isles of Notre Dame.

MR. HUNTER: Ray Hunter, Grand Falls-Windsor-Green Bay South.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, Baie Verte-Springdale.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Kelvin Parsons, Burgeo & La Poile.

CHAIR: We have a couple of observers, if you would like to give your names, please.

MS ELLIOTT-TEMPLETON: Vanessa Elliott-Templeton, Researcher, Official Opposition Office.

MR. MORGAN: Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP Office.

CHAIR: Thank you very much.

We will follow pretty well the same procedure as we have done other years. The minister may take up to fifteen minutes to introduce his staff and give an overview of his department's estimates for the year. The first speaker after that will also have up to fifteen minutes and then we will see if any other committee members want to ask questions or not.

We do have the minutes from the previous meeting so I guess first we will ask for a motion to adopt the minutes of the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, the minutes as circulated.

A motion to adopt the minutes as circulated.

Moved by Mr. Parsons, seconded by Mr. Dalley; minutes be adopted as circulated.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: I will ask the Clerk now to call the first subhead.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: 1.1.01., shall that carry?

Minister French.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you very much.

I do not know if I am going to take up fifteen minutes but I certainly want to thank you for having us here and I want to thank the committee in advance.

I guess I will start off by introducing the Deputy Minister, Cathy Duke; Assistant Deputy Minister Mark Jones, who looks after the cultural and heritage; and Assistant Deputy Minister for Tourism, Mary Taylor-Ash. Behind me we have Scott Jones, who is our Director of Finance, an important fellow for tonight, and Heather May, our Communications Director is next to him.

Just to keep it brief I guess, our department, as you probably already know, looks after tourism. The cultural and heritage is actually the arts and heritage piece, and of course, rec and sports. It is three separate entities but all falls under our department.

The tourism, in particular, has had some great success over the last number of years. Our budget now is upwards of $14 million and came from $6 million a few short years ago. As most of you know, and we get accused of bragging about it quite a bit but I always brag about it, the fact that we have won seventy-plus ads in our television and print ads over the last few years. It is certainly a remarkable achievement and something that we are very, very proud of.

The year before last we developed a policy, it is the second of its kind actually, Uncommon Potential. Part of that Uncommon Potential was to set up a tourism board of thirteen members. That board is made up of destination marketing organizations, industry people and government.

As a department, we are taking our direction and our advice – I do not know about all our direction but certainly some advice from the tourism board. They are assisting us in implementing much of the need, if you will, in Uncommon Potential. The main goal of Uncommon Potential is to double our tourism numbers by 2020. It will not be an easy task but something that we believe we are up to. The industry feels that they are there. We are going to do everything in our power to get them there.

Just one little set of numbers that always stands out to me is that over the last six to seven years our tourism traffic is up 14 per cent and our investment is up 14 per cent here in this Province. When you compare that to the other Atlantic Provinces, when you have Nova Scotia down 5 per cent, P.E.I. down 20 per cent and New Brunswick down 23 per cent over the same period of time, I think it speaks highly of the direction of our tourism department.

The other one we have, of course, is sport and rec. This year we have increased the budget by $350,000 for several different programs. We have actually increased the budget over the last three years by $1 million. It brings it to $3.5 million now.

I know most of the people sitting here would be familiar with things like seniors grants, rec grants. This past year we have had the Canada Games in Prince Edward Island, we have had the Newfoundland and Labrador Games in Grand Falls and we have also had the Labrador Games. We have had quite a busy year in the sport division with three of those games. Then we have our grants that, again, most of you are familiar with. We have the community rec grants for the communities under 6,000 people, which all communities in the Province get. We have our infrastructure grants that, again, you would all be familiar with.

The third piece I will speak about, and speak about just briefly, is our cultural division, and that of course takes in the arts and heritage. A couple of the things that I would like to highlight that we have done, of course, we had the Olympics. The big piece of the Olympics, and I did not realize it until I saw it myself, was the cultural piece to the Olympics and how big a role it plays at the Olympics itself. It is phenomenal actually, with countries from all over the world bringing cultural people and artists to perform. Although it is a sporting even, it is just as much a cultural event. Of course, we as Newfoundlanders, I would like to say, ran the board on that one.

We have the Republic of Doyle that is now – not only are we getting tourism hits because of it, it is quite a series. Government committed some initial funding for the program. It has now been accepted for the second season. They tell me in an actor's world, to have something accepted by CBC for the second, third and fourth season is something to be very, very proud of.

Of course, the JUNOs – how could I forget the JUNOs? A week gone and I have forgotten about it already. It was only today, actually, I was reading a letter from a colleague of mine, someone who happened to be here while the JUNOs was on, and told me a typical Newfoundland story about being met by a guy out walking his dog that turned into a tour of St. John's as he walked his dog home, got him in the car, gave him a tour of the city, had him to Signal Hill and all she started off with were directions to Signal Hill. Four or five hours later, he dropped her off at her hotel – or her company, two or three of them at their hotel with a day punched. These are the kinds of e-mails that I get on a regular basis.

On the heritage side, of course, we have the Cupids celebrations coming up that we are committed to. I think it starts on August 17 and runs to August 22. It is the 400 celebration of the first English colony in Canada. We have the Colonial Building that we have spent significant amounts of money over the last couple of years, and we have announced money for again in this year's Budget. Hopefully, all of us elected politicians will be here in 2013 when we go down and sit in the House and hopefully have, I don't know, maybe our Throne Speech from down there in 2013.

Anyway, that is all that I have to say so I will turn it over to my critic. I am sure he has a few questions that he would like to ask, and feel free.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, sir.

Before we begin questioning, I just want to remind the officials that if you have to direct a question to any of the officials, for them to identify themselves each time before they speak for the benefit of the media centre people.

Mr. Parsons.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, just a couple of clerical things, I guess. We ask each time we start out that if there are any undertakings requested from the minister in terms of further information, that they be recorded by the Chair and that would mean providing the information not only to whoever asked the question but to the other Opposition party as well, rather than have to duplicate the thing. Just because somebody did not ask does not mean they do not want it. We usually ask that, if I ask for it or whatever, it would go to the NDP and vice versa.

The other thing is, the Speaker made a comment this morning about BlackBerries not to be on the desk because it interferes with the audio. I just thought about that myself. I am wondering now what the buzzing was all morning in my ear, but it might have been my BlackBerry on my desk.

MR. FRENCH: I was saving that one in case you did not want to hear the answer.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I do not think this will be earth shattering, minister. You do not have one of the departments that usually call for a lot of deep criticism. You are in what we call one of the feel-good departments, I guess, as opposed to some that we have had the pleasure of doing estimates for.

First of all, just a few things on what we call the line by line stuff. This is more or less just specifics that we need to know about. On page 172, item 1.2.04. Capital Administrative Support, I am just wondering if you could give us some idea in 05. Professional Services, what type of professional services would we be talking about? That is page 172 of the Estimates, 1.2.04.05. Professional Services.

MR. FRENCH: The variance of $104,000 - that is the one you are referring to I assume?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, there was nothing budgeted and you spent $104,000. I am just wondering what happened to cause those professional services.

MR. FRENCH: It was consultant fees for work we were doing in Whitbourne. There was a move to do some renovation work in our Whitbourne site. The other thing was legal work for the purchase of land in Cupids. I do not know if you are familiar with it, but there was - I think there are two or three pieces of land, because of the dig site out there, that we have been in the process of purchasing.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Was that the legal fees associated with it or a purchase price associated with it?

MR. FRENCH: That would be the legal fees I would think. Scott, can you correct me on that?

MR. S. JONES: It is legal fees, yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Where would the cost of purchase be seen, or was that some other department paid for it?

MR. FRENCH: No, no, that would certainly come through our department. The cost – Scott, would you know exactly where that is?

MR. S. JONES: The purchase of land goes through Property, Furnishings and Equipment; it does not go through Professional Services.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The purchase of land was dealt with under Property, Furnishings and Equipment. Okay.

What did we have to pay for the land in question?

MR. FRENCH: Scott, do you want to carry on, on that?

MR. S. JONES: I am sorry, what was the question?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The land that we had to purchase in regard to the Cupid piece and the dig site, what did we actually have to pay to get the land in question?

MR. S. JONES: I do not have the actual amount on me here right now with the purchase of the property in Cupids. I can get that for you.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. Just an undertaking that you will get it is fine, that is no problem.

MR. S. JONES: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Chair?

CHAIR: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: Just if I could comment. I think it is three pieces of property. I know that there may only be one purchased at this time. I think there is another one maybe in the hopper if I recall correctly. I do not think the three pieces have been purchased yet. I think there is one that has been purchased and two that are in the hopper. We can get you the amounts; that is not a problem.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Under item 06. there, I noticed we budgeted $800,000 for Purchased Services and we spent $315,900. What is the nature of the Purchased Services there in that $315,900? We seem to be quite a bit less than what we anticipated.

MR. FRENCH: What it was, initially to do the VIC in Whitbourne, it came in I think at an unreasonable amount of money. It was decided at that time not to go as extensive as originally thought. I think those are the savings there from the Visitor Information Centre in Whitbourne.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

In the next line Property, Furnishings and Equipment we were up quite a bit over what we thought to the tune of $725,000 under Property, Furnishings and Equipment. What is the explanation for that?

MR. FRENCH: We are in the process of buying a cultural property in the Province. You will probably see an announcement in the next day or two. You know the way this works is that it goes in trust for usually a couple of weeks before all the "i's" are dotted and "t's" are crossed.

I am hoping to have an announcement on that in the next couple of days and I am sure it is one that the people of the Province will be more than happy with. It is protecting a significant piece of property that we have here in the Province.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Because the money has been paid out, you had to show it in there as expenditure –

MR. FRENCH: Exactly.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - in the last fiscal year.

MR. FRENCH: I can share that with you before –

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No, no problem, that is sufficient.

The next page 173, 2.1.01., item 05. Professional Services. What kind of professional services would we be talking here? You spent again about only a quarter of what you had budgeted.

MR. FRENCH: That is in 2.1.02?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No, 2.1.01., Tourism Marketing.

MR. FRENCH: Okay.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The Purchased Services are $12.4 million allotted for this year. It was $12.4 million last year. I would take it that is what you actually pay the people who produce the ads or whatever. I am just wondering what the professional services would be?

MR. FRENCH: In 2009-2010 it was planned to do an exit survey. That is something, because of the price of it, is not done every year. We do some exit surveys yearly. For example, we do have stuff on Marine Atlantic and we do have stuff at the airports that people can fill out at our VICs, but ideally, we want accurate details every four years on exit surveys.

Last year what happened was it was postponed, they decided to do a piece of it in-house. Right now, actually, we have the RFPs in our department to evaluate and make a decision on. So, that is why it went from - we have it again this year because it was not used last year. The 108 was some of the stuff that we did do in-house on our own as in the other information that we acquired from the airport.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Page 174, 3.1.01., Culture and Heritage, item 05., again the Professional Services. There was $122,000 allotted, revised to $180,000, this year back to $122,000. What kind of professional services would we have been talking about there?

MR. FRENCH: It went up an extra $58,000. The reliance variance, $58,000 and change, was a professional service contract on the Cultural Economic Development Program. That was awarded to Gosse Gilroy. Currently, I do not think we have it yet. They are doing something on the CEDP for us to analyze - because that program is a $1.2 million program. They are doing an evaluation on it for us, so that is why the extra $58,000. We should have that hopefully any day at all. Again, once we do get that we will certainly share it with you.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: This is not a line item, but I noticed on 174, I just see Arts and Culture Centres there. I raise the question: I am just wondering the overlap between your department, which I understand funds the Arts and Culture Centres versus the Department of Transportation or Government Services, who maintains the buildings? Who looks after the buildings?

I raise this because of the issue of accessibility by handicapped persons. We raised it a couple of years ago in Estimates. We had an assurance that it was a case of a female student who was disabled who could not attend their own graduation services at the Arts and Culture Centre from the stage. We were told at that time not to worry, she could use the lift that was there, I understand it. Now, I understand that there was another incident this year, still not done, the lift is not usable, and should not be used for that purpose. Whose responsibility is it to make sure that the Arts and Culture Centre – all of it – is accessible to disabled persons?

MR. FRENCH: My instant answer is TW. They would be responsible for the shell of the building and the operations of the building. When you get in to the seats, the facility, the curtains and the draperies, that would probably be our responsibility.

The incident in question that you are talking about is not something I am very proud of, to be totally frank with you. What happened was, apparently, when you wanted to access the stage in the St. John's facility, you used an elevator that is there. Several days or, I will say, several weeks prior to – no, it was not several weeks. I am trying to recall. It was probably on a Thursday they found out about it. Word did not get back until the Monday. When the poor young person went down there, they were not allowed to put people on this lift, this elevator, to go to the stage. Hence, that is what happened. In other times, when there is notice given, I think they actually physically build a ramp for graduation ceremonies and that stuff so people can actually enter from the main floor. So, it was unfortunate.

My understanding now is that the tender has been called. I do not know if the work has been completed yet, but I know the tender has been called because it was called shortly thereafter.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Can we get some information in that regard – exactly who got the tender, when it is likely to be done and so on?

MR. FRENCH: No problem.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That seems to be a continuing problem involving the same individual, actually.

MR. FRENCH: Like I said, it is one of those issues that sometimes it is hard to imagine that they come up at facilities in this day and age, but unfortunately it did.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Where in these figures, Minister, would we find the information about how much money we put into the Olympics?

MR. FRENCH: You would find that under Special Celebrations.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: 3.1.07?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So that is the reference in 06. there, I take it? You had budgeted $2.158 million and spent $1.190 million?

MR. FRENCH: Not only there. I do not think that is the only place you would find Olympics stuff.

Just one second there now.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Are the Grants and Subsidies also a piece of it?

MR. FRENCH: 3.1.07., under Professional Services?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: There are two there: Purchased Services shows $2.1 million of which you spent $1.1 million; and then there is Grants and Subsidies of $3 million and you spent $3.5 million. I am just wondering was what we did for the Olympics or the JUNOs or anybody else, could you give us a breakout on exactly what that – it looks like $4.7 million roughly.

MR. FRENCH: You want a breakout of the whole (inaudible) -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I am just trying to get an idea of how much government would have invested in the Olympics, how much we would have invested in the JUNOs. I am assuming - is that the only place that we are looking at here to find that information?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I am just trying to get a ballpark on how much went to the JUNOs -

MR. FRENCH: The JUNOs cost $1,025,000; $750,000 was to sponsor the event, we partnered with the City of St. John's and ACOA; $200,000 of it went to a host committee. The $200,000 was basically for the week of events leading up to the JUNOs; we put a committee in place for that week.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I believe somewhere there was seventy-five for the George Street piece.

MR. FRENCH: That is the next piece, seventy-five on top of that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The Olympics breakout, the total?

MR. FRENCH: The Olympics breakout, there were two funds. I will explain it to you this way: This fiscal year $1.9 million was the cost of the Olympics. Overall, the cost of the Olympics was about – well, we budgeted $3.4 million; I think we actually used $3.2 million. The initial $1.5 million, $750,000 was part of becoming an Olympic sponsor and the other $750,000 was to the Own the Podium campaign which funded athletes going to the Olympics. I think there were four provinces paid $750,000: us, Nova Scotia, Saskatchewan, and one more. The rest of them - I think it is the rest of them - paid $5 million. I guess we had the smaller amount because of our population.

The other $1.9 million, $500,000 was our contribution toward Atlantic Canada House; $65,000 for the Paralympics. We sent ninety artists up, that cost $450,000. We spent $400,000 to bring the Olympics back to Newfoundland, that included the eight regional celebrations that we had and entertainment and so on there.

The CTV show that we had at Mile One and Newfoundland Day here at the Olympics that cost, if I recall correctly, $160,000. I might be off a little bit on that, but I am pretty sure that is right. Newfoundland and Labrador Day warm-up segment at BC Place was another $210,000 celebration showcase. Then, we had other smaller ones like the Healthy Living Commotions piece we did here was $30,000. We had a Newfoundland networking reception that cost $82,000. Of course, the accommodation piece at the Olympics was $67,000. The Cultural Olympiad, I guess that was to pay for artists, was $124,000. I do not know what that adds up to. Are we close? I am giving it to you all over the place.

OFFICIAL: We jumped around a bit, yes.

MR. FRENCH: Yes, we jumped around a bit there. The extra expenses come out to the $1.9 million or $1.7 million.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: With the Own the Podium campaign, how do we factor into that? I know it is to support athletes, but we did not have any athletes from this Province at the Olympics.

MR. FRENCH: No, we did not.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: How does that work and so on? To think that we paid towards it but we did not get any athletes who were in there, how does it work?

MR. FRENCH: My understanding, it goes to a national pot. The national pot pays the salaries, if you will, to athletes based on their experiences nationally and what they have accomplished. For example, Brad Gushue leading up to the Olympics was part of the Own the Podium program. Even though he was not at the Olympics, he had been paid for the previous year, I will say, a stipend to be trained for this Olympics based on the fact he had won gold in the previous one. It was based on previous performance along with world championships and so on.

I remember one of the speed skaters - her name escapes me now - she had received a certain amount per month because she was the reigning world champion, or over the last three years, she had won numerous medals. That is the way it was allotted out, based on previous performances.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: What kind of money are we talking about? For Gushue, for example, what would he have received?

MR. FRENCH: I would not be able to tell you. I would have to get that information for you. That is something I would have to get from the Olympic committee, I would think, or one of their groups. I will try to obtain that for you.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

I noticed this year you have only allotted $125,000. Does that mean we do not have any – it was a big year with the JUNOs and the Olympics, I realize that, but that is a fairly insignificant amount compared to what we have spent. I am just wondering: Is there nothing going on of major significance this year? You have $125,000 there in Grants and Subsidies and nothing for anything else.

Is the Cupids thing taking place this year or has that all been paid up front?

MR. FRENCH: No, no, most of it was, but there is still a portion of it that is coming this year. That falls under that $5.3 million in the Special Celebrations and Events. That is part of that $5 million. That $5 million includes Cupids, the JUNOs, the Olympics, another small amount like the Bartlett celebrations.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So that was all last year's money?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, that is where that was.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So my question is: There is only $125,000 allotted for this year under Special Celebrations and Events, so I am assuming we have everything pretty well paid up and there is nothing on the horizon for this year.

MR. FRENCH: No, there is not. The $125,000 – just a second now. Scott, would you have any information on that one (inaudible)?

MR. S. JONES: Yes, it just reflects the reduction from the Olympics and the JUNOs, and any anticipated special events and celebrations that will be coming and that have been identified for this year at this point in time.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I am assuming we have the Newfoundland and Labrador Games again this year. We have the Labrador Games this year. Where would that fit in the scheme of things?

MR. FRENCH: That would fall under Recreation and Sport, but as you know the games are in cycles. So, there is no Newfoundland and Labrador Games this coming year. They are two out and that will be the Summer Games. Labrador Games is a cycle as well. I think the next Canada Games is in 2011 in Halifax. So, you have games every second year, provincially, and they alternate, winter and summer. In the meantime, you are on a four-year cycle of funding. Every year you are paying into the pot, if you will. So the Canada Games four years out, you start funding it four years in advance.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So where is that funding shown in this budget?

MR. FRENCH: That would fall under Recreation and Sport.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

That is not considered a special celebration or an event?

MR. FRENCH: No, that is part of the Rec and Sport budget.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

You mentioned the Republic of Doyle. Did we actually put money into that?

MR. FRENCH: What we did, we gave them $3 million tax credits and $1.5 million in film equity – I think it is called. The deal was - I do not know if the deal was, the way it was suppose to work was they get $1.5 million in equity funding the first year and they wanted $1.5 million in equity funding for the beginning of the second year and a $3 million tax credit. Now initially, they did not need one of the $1.5 million because of their offshore sales or overseas –

OFFICIAL: Foreign sales.

MR. FRENCH: Foreign sales, yes. So really, I guess, government's investment was $1.5 million in film equity for this past season and $3 million in a tax credit.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: And next year?

MR. FRENCH: Next year -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That was last year, were you anticipating -

MR. FRENCH: I know they are knocking on our door again, so I suspect it will be something very similar. There has nothing been approved yet, except the $1.5 million they were already committed to, of course, in this fiscal year. We have not really made a decision, but I know they have a request in to us. Based on what they put back into the economy in the Province from us -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That was my next question: What are the estimates on what spin off the return is on our investment?

MR. FRENCH: I am trying to remember the numbers right now. I think it was something like $22 million or $24 million back into the economy directly, but the biggest piece of it is that $9 million of it is directly into salaries, which is significant with a heavily laden Newfoundland content. That is the big winner for us there. Forgetting about the tourism piece and how good it looks on TV and all that, putting all that to one side, the return on investment is actually a big deal for us.

Today I heard the comment again. What we have done now is we have created a film - and I know we have a ways to go, but we are starting to create a film industry here in the Province. Not to take anything away from what we have done in the past, but right now, tomorrow, if you came to St. John's or came to the Province and wanted to film a movie, you would be hard pressed to find staff to do it simply because everybody is working on the Republic of Doyle who is into that industry. That is a real challenge we have now. Obviously, we hope that Republic of Doyle goes on forever and a day, but the real challenge we have now is bringing people in the Province to the next level, training more people so that they can carry out - should a movie come tomorrow for wherever, to be shot in Ferryland, we would have a job to staff it.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The Canada Games Annex in Corner Brook was converted a few years ago to be used as some kind of a theatrical reproduction type facility?

MR. FRENCH: A soundstage I think it was initially.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Is that being used? Has that been used for anything since we made that investment?

MR. FRENCH: Not to my knowledge. Mark, do you know anything about it? Mark Jones.

MR. M. JONES: The primary user of that facility now happens to be the College of the North Atlantic for film production. It varies, of course, but the College of the North Atlantic is the primary user right now.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So has there been any film production at all there?

MR. M. JONES: Specific projects? Not in my memory right now, but I can certainly find that out for you.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you. I would appreciate that, if you would.

MR. M. JONES: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, on page 177, the Recreation – Operations, and looking at this as well in conjunction with the Community Sports Facilities, just so I am on the same page as you are.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I noticed 4.1.02. talks about Community Sports Facilities and it says it deals with the "assistance with the repairs and maintenance of sport and recreation facilities." The top one, 4.1.01., deals with operations of existing facilities, I guess.

Where is the new money if you are going to build a new stadium? Where would one look in the Budget to see how much money you have – we are going to build a stadium in Pouch Cove?

MR. FRENCH: The only time we ever had money for actual infrastructure, to my knowledge, is this past year, and that was through the rink program. Prior to that, if you wanted to build a stadium wherever, you went through Municipal Affairs. So that is the only reason, I guess, that this occurred here is because of the rink funding. You are familiar with it, certainly.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: The reason you will see the variance there is not that the money was put there, it is just that it was time to spend it, time to get it out the door. So, as you will see the money has been basically re-profiled for the next year with additional money and different commitments that have been made. That, of course, was based totally on a federal commitment that we are getting – I have that here somewhere too. By investing what we have invested, I think we get $22 million from the feds to go along with it.

We will put in $8.3 million; that was what we put in last year. Of course, most of that was re-profiled, but the total project investment is about $21.5 million. The soccer field in CBS was announced in the last fiscal year, I think that was a $1.4 million project, but I would think that the money has not been taken for that yet, even though they have just started construction on it. So it will follow over; they will not get the money until next year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. I take it on the $2.9 million you spent last year that is actually out the door, so you know what that was spent on.

MR. FRENCH: Right, yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The $10.4 million, you must have some idea of what is in the queue.

MR. FRENCH: Yes, apparently all this money has been announced. There is nothing left to come.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. That is where I was heading here. Can we get a list of what it was spent on last year and what you have already announced, just a complete list?

MR. FRENCH: Yes, I will give you a total list, no sweat.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, is there anything planned this year – we talk about marketing and as you have indicated, we have won several awards and so on for marketing campaigns and that in the past. It appears that there is $12.4 million budgeted for this year for that same thing.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Are you at liberty to say what kinds of things are in the works?

MR. FRENCH: Well, I am sure we can give you a ballpark. That is our budget, so we spend it different ways in different years. Just to give you an example, last year we had the ad from Labrador. That was an expensive ad, if you will, because you needed helicopters and so on to do it. This year we do not have planned right now to do another television ad because we have done ten over the last few years. The year before last I think we did three. We have chapters now. We have ten chapters and they are still playing very well. I still get comments at work from the first one that we did. We have a good, decent stockpile right now.

One of the things we have to get into now is we have these destination marketing organizations that we formed because of Uncommon Potential and because of our tourism board. They have decided that is the way we should go to develop our tourism market. You have the Western DMO over there, for example, and we have Central DMO and we have the Labrador destination marketing board. That is a road we have to go down now and invest some money into. We do not have all the details worked out in that yet, but that is a road that we are going down.

The other big piece of it that we have to get into and keep – I do not know if reinventing is the correct word to use. With the Internet, just to give you an example, at one point we were doing 200,000 travel guides; in the last two years, we have been dropping 40,000 a year because people do not want them because most of the people now are doing all of their shopping on-line. So, that is where our Web presence has to be increased. We have to get better at that. That is another area where we will be spending money.

Of course, we have been doing a For the Love of NL campaign. We have concentrated on the shoulder seasons, but also to promote the Province to our people who live here at home. We have a summer campaign, a winter campaign, and I think we have a spring and a fall campaign as well. So, we are trying to encourage people within our Province to move. That is another area we are investing money in.

Am I leaving anything out, Mary?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: There are a number of different initiatives that we are on. Now, some of this stuff we have been doing all along, but some of it we need to pick it up a notch.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In the Estimates last year, the minister at that time indicated that you were awaiting a consultant's report about departmental reorganization. He had referenced that there had been a consultant's report relating to the reorganization of your department.

MR. FRENCH: I am not familiar with the reorganization of the department.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That is the information that I have. It was here actually and there was some indication that the consultant had been asked to look at the department to see if reorganization was required.

MR. FRENCH: We have been looking at the Rec and Sport Division, for example, but not to take it away or maybe just a different way of doing business. I have no idea of a departmental –

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay, I was under the impression that –

MR. FRENCH: I will tell you what I can do, though, I will check to see if there is a report in the department for the reorganization of the department and I will certainly let you know. That is not a problem.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: A favourite topic of mine, I guess, is Marine Atlantic, coming from that district. What kind of relationship do you personally have as the minister with the President of Marine Atlantic? Do you have any meetings with him? How often have you met?

MR. FRENCH: I would say the first meeting I had was with the new CEO before the Budget, and I expressed some of the things that I saw in the Auditor General's report and expressed some of the concerns that we as a Province have. I was delighted to see the $175 million in the Budget. Whether that is going to be enough or not to address some of the issues that we have there, time will tell. I guess I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt the first year and see how things unfold this coming season and what their plans are but I have not meet with them since the Budget. I am wondering if we talked by phone, because I have talked by phone with him a couple of times. I do not know the exact dates but I have been keeping an open line of communication. He knows where we are as a Province or where I am as the minister and I think he is with us. I really feel that he is supporting our cause. Like I said, $175 million is nowhere near what the Auditor General recommended but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to see where that $175 million – where he takes us anyway in this first year. I think it is over a two-year period, $175 million.

So, I am going to see how the traffic trade is this year. I know some of the complaints and problems we had this year and we have a good enough relationship whereby we both agree that he realizes there are going to be times that we are not going to agree. He is prepared for that, and certainly I am prepared for it, too.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: In the past, Marine Atlantic and the federal government have made it quite clear that their principle concern is to operate a service that gets freight, and that is actually their constitutional requirement under Term 34 of Confederation. It says nothing about servicing or enhancing our tourist trade. In the past, we have had vehement arguments with the federal government and Marine Atlantic saying: Look, fine, you have to do that but you also need ferries that can carry people that are proper and they are not cattle cars and stuff like that.

In my experience, and I have dealt with every President of Marine Atlantic since 1980, I have not seen much change in their attitude. Have you sensed any change in the attitude of the current president that he is pro-tourism as well as truckers, because truckers and movement of people –

MR. FRENCH: I am not familiar with the history like you would be, obviously. I know a little bit because I have been in government and living in the Province. If you have not heard a complaint about Marine Atlantic you must have had your head buried some far in the sand the last twenty years, but a couple of things that he explained to me that I took - I do not know if comfort would be the right word but I took some liberty to say: well, you know, that seems like the right thing to do.

One of the things that he mentioned to me is that they hired a vice-president of customer relations. It is the first time ever that the company has had somebody dealing strictly with customer relations. He went on to tell me the type of role that this person was playing. Now, we had half an hour or an hour meeting - I suppose we went for an hour. That was something that was new to their whole Marine Atlantic division. They had never had a vice-president. So that is somebody who reports directly to him, involved with customer relations. My comment was it is long overdue and I think you are headed in the right direction, because if you are working to keep the customers happy, then that is the ideal point for us when it comes to the tourism and access to and from our Province. That is one of their major problems, is how they treat their customers.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You mentioned when we began about exit surveys and stuff.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Have you done any of that recently, vis-à-vis Marine Atlantic, in the level of satisfaction?

MR. FRENCH: Do you remember some of the stuff I was talking about in-house? That was some of the things that we have been doing, is exit surveys through Marine Atlantic.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. Can you share the results with us as to –

MR. FRENCH: I do not have the results here in front of me. Do we have any in?

Mary Taylor-Ash, if you could –

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The work that we do on the Marine Atlantic ferry and in the airports is under our exit survey piece. We are just preparing now to go back into – the last time we did extensive survey results was 2004; they are readily available. We will be going back into the marketplace for doing the exit survey again in the fall of this year.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The new ferry program between Blanc Sablon and Corner Brook which was implemented - I realize it was just, shall we say, a trial session during this winter using the Bond I do believe. Any thought to that as possibly continuing from a tourist angle?

MR. FRENCH: I will be totally frank with you and tell you that I have no – other than that it happened and it seemed to be working well, there were a lot of compliments about it. It would seem like the natural fit for tourism obviously, especially with our road network in Labrador being enhanced. No, I have no information on it, I have no surveys on it; I have no statistics on it. I am not saying that Transportation and Works - I do not know what piece of work they have done with it or if Labrador Affairs has done any work with it, but there is nothing to my knowledge that we have.

How long was it - how many months did it run for?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible) I am not sure.

MR. FRENCH: Four months maybe?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: No, because we always seem to talk about - we bring tourists in through Port aux Basques, we bring them in through Argentia, and we talk about having the circle route which makes it more appealing for them, and Gros Morne, L'Anse aux Meadows and so on. It just seems to be an obvious fit. You might not want to drive all the way up the Northern Peninsula and drive back, whereas if you could drive up and go across and shoot out through Labrador or come in and take a ferry, it just seems to be an obvious fit.

MR. FRENCH: It seemed like the residents of Labrador appreciated it quite a bit as well. I think some of their concerns – I think I seen it on a news clip – was the twelve-hour ride on the boat. There is always ways to deal with that sort of stuff.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, again, last year in these proceedings apparently there was a report commissioned to review the Province's Arts and Culture Centres. I am wondering, was that publicly released or finished?

MR. FRENCH: Go ahead, Cathy.

MS DUKE: Yes, you are right. There was a consultant's report that was completed looking at a complete reorganization for the Arts and Culture Centres. There were five or six major recommendations there. What we have been doing internally in the department is tackling each of those. As we did that, we learned that the very first thing that needed to be done was really an analysis of the whole organization.

Where we are right now is that we have done that detailed analysis. We have a new organizational structure which we are now proposing to government and that will mean some changes to existing positions, some new positions. Those that will no longer be relevant will be reworked. That will also then allow us to do some of the other things recommended in the report in terms of developing more regional programming and so on. We are in mid-stride with that and we will be seeking approval from government very soon to implement those changes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Is that report likely to be released, or can it be released?

MS DUKE: It has not been released, has it?

MR. M. JONES: (Inaudible).

MS DUKE: Oh, it has?

I am told by Mark Jones, our ADM, that yes, that report was released publicly. I guess it is a year ago now that that was released.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

Is anybody else picking up static on their earphone? I do not know if the BlackBerry is the problem. I am getting a squeal in mine; maybe it is just this one. I had it this morning as well.

MS DUKE: I would just like to offer that we can certainly provide a copy of that report for you.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, if you would please.

MR. FRENCH: Just on that point, I think it is important that we make the Arts and Culture Centres more user-friendly from a regional basis. That is where my head is to as minister, to be totally honest with you. I want to see more local involvement in the Arts and Culture Centres in the Province. I think that is with our cultural industry boom, if I can use that word. I think it is a sin if we do not have more local content in our Arts and Culture Centres. That would come from appropriate staffing, whether that be local committees involved, whatever the case may be. I think it is very, very important that we maintain our Arts and Culture Centres not only as a facility to deliver high-level performances from national and international acts, and even high-level local acts, but also bring it down to a starter program too, if you will.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Minister, where are we right now with the Colonial Building? What is the status on the Colonial Building?

MR. FRENCH: The Colonial Building right now, the next step in the Colonial Building, this year $1.2 million was approved and that will fix the slate roof. So, that is the next step.

I know there has been quite a bit of work done on the interior of it. I am trying to figure out - I just forget the original walls and the original paints and the original colours. The ceilings have been restored. The Polish gentleman who they used to let out of jail to redo the ceilings while he was in jail, that has been restored, but in order to maintain that - the fear is, of course, that leaks - and it is a slate roof, which I did not know hardly existed, but apparently there is such a thing as an original slate roof, that is going to be a substantial cost. We had $1.2 million for it this year. So, it is a big bill. I initially thought: why couldn't we put shingles on it? But it does not work that way when you restore buildings. Apparently, you have to bring it back to its original content.

There is an interesting story that somebody told me about the Colonial Building, that when they were here - the building was built in, what is the year it was built?

OFFICIAL: The 1800s, I believe.

MR. FRENCH: Yes, the 1800s. Someone said: By God, this was quite a building for St. John's in the 1800s. They came back and said: No, this was quite a building for North America in the 1800s. So it was good to hear from an outside source.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: The gentleman who was the guest of the Speaker today in the Speaker's gallery, who sat in the House of Assembly for sixty years-plus, was telling me after today that he actually sat - sixty years of course would take him back to when the old Colonial Building was being used. He actually partook and listened to the national debates, and voted twice against Confederation he reminded me.

MR. FRENCH: I knew he took in the national debates because he calls me at home.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I told him he was a bit of an artifact himself with that history.

Minister, if one was to look in your department for where he or she might look for some assistance for special little stuff, and I will give an example. I have a group who approached me in my district in Burgeo & La Poile. They were asked to attend a music festival last year in Toronto. It cost them about $30,000 to do it. They were a bunch of kids who did not know the proper end of a saxophone when they started the program. They have a lady out there who is not a local, who came to town some years ago, and she has a doctorate in music. Through nobody's initiative but her own, she encouraged these kids to get involved to the point where not only did they win the prizes when they went last year, but they have been asked to come back to Ottawa again this year. They come to you - of course, they do their fundraising. They have their cookie sales, their bake sales, their soup sales, sub sales and whatever, but yet they expect – we see it in the Olympics when we pay whatever, millions of dollars to send them. I realize that is a world-class event and we should partake in those things. I have no problem with that. I have no problem with the Republic of Doyle and stuff like that either. It is great, and great economic returns.

Where in your budget do we find that stuff, and how - and is there a process where people like that can make a proper approach to your department? Because it seems like a lot of this stuff – and, quite frankly, I do not think it is the proper approach that MHAs have to run to the minister and say: Look, we have this project, can you squeeze a few bucks out? To me, it is a very legitimate process, programs. Where would we look to in your budget to be able to say: Look, do you have any money in that particular pot to help these people?

MR. FRENCH: I will be totally, totally frank with you. I was quite shocked actually when I got to the department myself to discover that for kids in choirs - we do not have a program that funds youth choirs, for example, but we do fund professional artists. So, if I and you are considered professional, we can get funding. However, if you are a start up choir or a junior choir at a local school, then our department is not the place to come look for money because we currently do not have a program for it.

Now, I am not sure about education. I do not know if the Department of Education would have anything for anything like that, but I know I have had choirs in my own district that have approached me. I do not think it was a choir. Actually, it was a junior band, or whatever it was, but I know exactly what you are saying. When we have young musicians or young artists at a young age who are travelling to, I do not know, St. Pierre to be part of a choir or a cultural event, there is currently not a program that exists in our department for that. However, I will tell you that it is something that I am looking into.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes, I am just thinking of priorities. I agree that we put millions into marketing through ad campaigns and whatever; I think it is just equally important that we market ourselves through our kids. Culturally, it fits your department -

MR. FRENCH: Now, there are a couple of things in the meantime that do - there is the cultural connections piece in the Province, interprovincial travel they will subsidize, and then there is a the Labrador piece as well that they allow people from Labrador to travel to the Island portion or travel within. So, we do have a fund for interprovincial travel.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Where is that to in your budget? Is there somewhere you can point to?

MR. FRENCH: That is not in our department. The Department of Education has that.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Oh, okay.

It has to be, as you say, interprovincial.

MR. FRENCH: Do we have the Labrador travel? Is that in our department, the Labrador travel?

OFFICIAL: It is with the Arts Council.

MR. FRENCH: It is with the Arts Council, we fund the Arts Council. So, their Labrador travel fund is through that.

Now, the other thing that we do subsidize in the meantime is the Kiwanis Music Festival. We subsidize them all, and I think some of them are called the Rotary Music Festival. We do bring kids together or help bring kids together for that. You are right if the group wanted to go to Montreal -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: There is nothing available.

The TODS program. There is a lot of confusion out there right now as to - I think we all understand the nature of the program and what was intended. Can you give us the status right now of that particular program?

MR. FRENCH: The TODS program will be fully implemented, or is planned to be fully implemented, I am thinking it is going to take anywhere from two to four years to be fully implemented.

Right now what is happening around the Island is that the legislation, they have been enforcing the previous legislation, as you probably know, and they are taking down illegal signs. Now, they are supposed to be taking down illegal signs. I have known of stories where, by accident, a legal sign has been taken but put back in place. What is supposed to be happening now is illegal signs come down. TODS is something that I do not know if anyone wants to go down and cut down a sign of a business, to be totally frank with you, I certainly do not want to do it, but it is the biggest complaint we get from tourists in the Province. The biggest is signage. That is everything from signage direction to the amount of signs they see to – to see a sign and so on.

The reason TODS was selected, the reason I am saying TODS was selected was because the seasoned traveller is used to using TODS. TODS is all over Europe. I think every province in Canada, with the exception of one or two, has a TODS system in place. There are forty states in the US that use the TODS system. So, we are not trying to reinvent the wheel. We are trying to appease, if you will, or enhance the seasoned travellers' way finding. Way finding in itself has taken on a whole new role altogether. Signage, I think, will be like talking about like the eight-track in three or four years. We could be looking at a spot somewhere down life's road where GPS will rule the day.

It is a necessary thing that we have to do. I am going to try to do it with as much consultation and as much community involvement as I possibly can. This is not something that government is taking on its own. It is something that is driven by a committee that has been struck with Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador, Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador, Municipal Affairs, Transportation and Works. We have brought as many people into the main committee as we possibly can.

As we roll it out, like I said, my main goal and the direction that I have had with officials is: Guys, we have to do this to appease as many people as we can, however still staying within the TODS program because the reason we are doing it is for the tourism business.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So when you head outside of town here, like the Moorlands you are driving in, I noticed there are still dozens and dozens of signs. You are telling me that these are legal signs under the existing legislation.

MR. FRENCH: Correct.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: When we brought that in years ago, whoever owned those signs complied with the regulations and got a permit to put them there?

MR. FRENCH: Correct.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: When are those signs coming down?

MR. FRENCH: Well, I guess if the TODS program - their signs, while being a legal sign, we will not go out and remove a legal sign. The hope will be that they will buy into the TODS program, but if the TODS program is not in place and your sign comes up for renewal –

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: For permit for renewal. Will they get one?

MR. FRENCH: You can still get a permit for a legal sign.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay, so anybody who was fortunate enough to have complied with the law and got a permit before you brought in TODS, and if they are on the ball enough to come back in and get a renewal, they will keep their sign forever and a day?

MR. FRENCH: No, no. You can still get a permit for a legal sign. Tomorrow, if you opened a tourism business for example, you can get a permit for a sign.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. Let me give you back this situation. We have a set of regulations that we brought in some time ago saying you have to be so far, certain corridors from the road. It has to be a certain graphically acceptable type sign, hopefully. You cannot put a piece of garbage up. They ask you to be nice about it.

The guy from Ramea has a B&B.

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: He has a nice sign, comes into your office now and says: I have a nice four by eight and here is a picture of it. I want to put this up on the Trans-Canada Highway, tell me where the legitimate corridors are, give me a permit and he buys his permit. He can still do that?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

MR. FRENCH: Now, here is the catch because this is what you are looking for, I assume. If you get a permit tomorrow to put up a new sign -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: - part of that letter that you receive will undoubtedly say that you have one year. You might get two years; you might get three years until the new regulations come in.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay, and what happens then?

MR. FRENCH: Then, you will be asked to take part in the TODS program.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: If you do not?

MR. FRENCH: If you do not, the date that was on your letter, we will say, you will lose your sign (inaudible) -

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay. My understanding was that the press release and the announcement and the instructions that went out last year was that you had to have your signs down by June 9 - that sticks out in my head.

MR. FRENCH: That was illegal signs.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: That was illegal signs. Okay, because that was not clear to a lot of people in the Province. I get a lot of people asking me now how come when you drive across the Province you can still see 500 signs up and nobody has taken them down, yet I lost mine. It is the illegal persons who have lost their signs.

MR. FRENCH: I was literally on my way from Government House pretty well and one of the first calls I had was a friend of mine who said: Does this mean I can leave my sign up on the Manuels Arterial? His sign is down.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I take it he was illegal.

Eventually, if you are telling me that, those are the persons who come in now. Anybody, you are telling me, who on a go-forward basis comes in for a permit renewal, they will be told that?

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You are okay, but once TODS comes here, you are done and then you have to take it down.

What are the time limits on the existing permits now? The guy, for example, who has his sign up for Burgeo on the Trans-Canada, he was given a permit. What was his timeline?

MR. FRENCH: It is Government Services that sets that regulation, but I believe it is a year. Do not quote me, as the fellow says, even though I am in a position now that I am quoted, but I think it is a year but I know Government Services is who you would have to ask that specific point to.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: My understanding is that it was for a number of years.

MR. FRENCH: Initially, they were for three years.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

MR. FRENCH: Initially, before TODS, you could get a permit for three years is my understanding. You could get a three-year permit; your permit was good for three years.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: You are saying now if they come in the renewal is for one year?

MR. FRENCH: Yes. Again, you would have to check with Government Services, but I do not think there are any more three-year permits, if you will. If there is, there is a stipulation on it that once the TODS are brought in you are expected to be part of the TODS system.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: So, the TODS system is being brought in by your department -

MR. FRENCH: Yes.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: - but, first of all, the permitting of it and the implementation of it and the enforcement of it will be done by Government Services?

MR. FRENCH: Correct.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Okay.

OFFICIAL: And Transportation and Works.

MR. FRENCH: And Transportation and Works.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Pardon?

MR. FRENCH: And Transportation and Works.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: And Transportation and Works, they are the guys who bring the chainsaws.

MR. FRENCH: Yes, they are the bad guys.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

I have no further questions, Minister.

CHAIR: Thank you, sir.

Do we have any further questions for the Committee members?

AN HON. MEMBER: No.

CHAIR: Okay.

I will ask the Clerk to call the subheads.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 carry?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CLERK: 1.2.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall 1.2.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.2.01 through 4.1.02 carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation carried without amendment?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Estimates for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation carried without amendment.

CHAIR: Thank you very much.

At this time I would like to just remind the Committee members that our next meeting will be tomorrow evening at 5:30 here in the House, and we will be debating the Estimates for the Department of Business.

Now I would like to thank the members of the Committee, the House of Assembly staff, the Minister and his officials. If the minister would like to have a few concluding remarks.

MR. FRENCH: I just want to thank the Committee and thank my critic. Certainly, it was not too strenuous. I have seen some of these questions to be very polite and very sensible, not like some committees I have been involved with in the last seven or eight years. I want to thank everybody involved.

Thank you very much.

CHAIR: Thank you very much.

A motion to adjourn now is in order.

MR. VERGE: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved by Mr. Verge that this meeting adjourn.

This meeting now stands adjourned.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.