Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Gerry Rogers, MHA for St. John's Centre, substitutes for Lorraine Michael, MHA for Signal Hill – Quidi Vidi.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, John Dinn, MHA for Kilbride, substitutes for Tracey Perry, MHA for Fortune Bay – Cape La Hune, for a portion of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte – Springdale, substitutes for Eli Cross, MHA for Bonavista North, for a portion of the meeting.

The Committee met at 9:00 in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Brazil): Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to welcome everybody to the Estimates Committee for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

I would first like to start by asking the Committee if they would introduce themselves, but I first should note that we do have a substitute. Ms Rogers is filling in for Ms Michael. Welcome.

We will just ask the Committee where you are from, your district and your name, please.

MR. CROSS: Eli Cross, MHA for Bonavista North.

MS PERRY: Tracey Perry, MHA, Fortune Bay – Cape La Hune.

MR. RUSSELL: Keith Russell, Lake Melville.

MR. BALL: Dwight Ball, Humber Valley.

CHAIR: You can introduce your staff too, please.

MR. BALL: Diane Randell, Researcher, Official Opposition Office.

MS ROGERS: Gerry Rogers, St. John's Centre, and the amazing Daniel Smith, NDP Office.

CHAIR: Thank you.

I would like to welcome the minister; and I do understand, Minister, that you have had some minor medical issues. We will go through it, and if it becomes too painful then we can recess and reassess again if that is fine with everybody.

I will ask the minister if he would introduce his staff or have his staff introduce themselves. I do ask that when you do ask to speak, if there is a question passed on, be cognizant of announcing who you are so that Hansard can record it properly.

MR. DALLEY: They can introduce themselves. Go ahead.

MS HEARN: Judith Hearn, Deputy Minister.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: Mary Taylor-Ash, Assistant Deputy Minister of Tourism.

MR. M. JONES: Mark Jones, Assistant Deputy Minister for Culture and Recreation.

MS QUINTON: Diana Quinton, Communications Director.

MR. S. JONES: Scott Jones, Departmental Comptroller.

MR. HYNES: Darrell Hynes, the minister's Executive Assistant.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Before we start I have a bit of housekeeping to do. Could I have a member make a motion to accept the minutes of the April 30 Department of Environment and Conservation budget line reviews and the May 2 Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture minutes?

MR. RUSSELL: So moved.

CHAIR: So moved by the Member for Lake Melville; seconded by the Member for Fortune Bay – Cape La Hune.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Opposed?

Minutes carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: As everybody should be aware of now, the process would be to give the minister fifteen minutes, if he needs that much, to just do an overview of his department and the budget lines itself very quickly, or just an intro on his department. Then we will go directly into the Opposition to start on the budget lines themselves.

I have in the past, because there have been some new members, given some latitude when they got into questions that were not directly related to the budget lines. I want to stress because of time frames that we keep it as much as possible to the line budget issues relevant to the discussions.

Mr. Minister.

MR. DALLEY: Thank you.

I will not make a lot of comments to open, but I do just want to reference our department, I know you are familiar with it, but in terms of Tourism, Culture and Recreation we are the department that is responsible for the arts in the Province, the culture and heritage side, as well as supporting recreation development, and obviously tourism.

We are guided by our strategies. In 2006, we had a cultural strategy which in working with industry partners we were able to develop a new plan and a new direction which we want to focus on particularly for the preservation, the promotion, and certainly any economic value of the arts, culture, and heritage in this Province.

In 2007, we came out with a new Recreation Strategy which was very positive in working with industry partners to be able to refocus, put more attention into recreation and sport in the Province, focus on Active, Healthy Newfoundland and Labrador, the challenges in schools, obesity issues, and all kinds of things, and a focus on society in general towards healthier living. The strategy was very timely as well.

In 2009, we had a new strategy for tourism in the Province, a tremendous collaborative effort that enabled us to develop Uncommon Potential: Vision 2020, map out a direction we want to go with tourism, and be able to align the efforts within the industry. Obviously, we have had tremendous success with our tourism in recent years.

I will make a brief comment from the budget exercise and the line items. I think you will see as we go through, we are not a large department, but what we do is obviously very significant. It has a great impact on stakeholders and communities. We went through a budget exercise, particularly the 3 per cent exercise; our true focus was to try to ensure that recognizing our core mandate, recognizing some specific things where we need to catch up, where we need to try to focus on this year as well through different aspects of the department.

We try to share the 3 per cent exercise out so that everybody kind of took a little part of the fiscal management. I do not say everybody because that is not exactly how it worked, but we did share it out as best we can. Our goal and objective was to try to minimize obviously the impact on our frontline and our stakeholders.

We are pleased that we are able to achieve that for the most part, but fully recognize that we have come a long ways in our programming and there are still challenges, there is no question about that. We realize that and we want to continue on the path that we have been on and work with our industry stakeholders; we have had great feedback from them. We have great partnerships out there in all aspects of our department. I think it is very positive for us and very positive for the Province and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I just want to kind of have my words and kind of give you some sense. I think as you go through line by line and you will see how little pieces of money have been carved off here and there to try to help spread out what we are doing. Having said all of that, we are very upbeat and very positive about our budget. We are going to continue the great work that has been done in recent years. We look forward to the year unfolding and moving forward with – obviously working with our industry partners. With that, Mr. Chair, questions.

CHAIR: Mr. Minister, again before I turn over to Mr. Ball, I just want to outline the process that I will use. We will go fifteen minutes back and forth. If you are close and you only have a question or two left, a minute or two you need in a particular heading on a budget line, I will give you the leeway, just let me know, if that is fine with everybody, so that you finish that heading and move on to another one.

Mr. Ball.

MR. BALL: Perfect. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I really have no problem with my colleague here, Gerry, if we are into a particular category and the conversation is going and there is a question – I know what we have found in some other Committee meetings that it made it more efficient; the staff do not have to move around certain categories.

If there is something that I am saying that I might have missed in a certain area, and Gerry wants a follow-up question, I have no problem with that at all. I certainly understand the conditions that the minister is working under this morning, and if we have to break and recess or whatever it is, we have no problem; we will co-operate fully for sure. We certainly understand that.

The process for us so far, as everybody is somewhat familiar with, is that we prefer to go through a line by line and then we will get the questions out there and see where we are. What I will try and do is actually use the numbers there and go through the certain bullets. So, if I use a bullet, that is probably the line item that you can go down to.

We will get started. For us, it will be 1.2.01 is the first question I would have. That would be under the General Administration, Executive Support. The salary line there 01, we see a budget decrease there of about $132,000. Does the minister want to explain that for us, please?

MR. DALLEY: That reflects two salaried positions that were transferred over to social Strategic Planning and Policy. You will see that figure show up again, a similar figure show up – 1.2.01.01 is that the one you are –

MR. BALL: Subhead 1.2.01.01, Salaries.

MR. DALLEY: Sorry. That reflects the reallocation (inaudible) and primarily what we have done here is we are looking at special events like we have had over the past couple of years – World War I planning commemorations. We are looking at obviously celebrating Newfoundland and Labrador's role in the wars –

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MR. DALLEY: We can try again: Salary reallocation and it is in the special events area which we will be focusing on World War I commemorations.

MR. BALL: Okay.

When will they start?

MR. DALLEY: We are in the planning stages for that. It is kind of a post-Budget announcement but a significant piece of work is being done and something we are looking at doing over the next two to three years.

MR. BALL: Okay, good.

MR. DALLEY: We will have a full announcement on that coming soon.

MR. BALL: Good.

The next one would be 1.2.02 – Gerry, I do not know if you have anything in the first category there before we move on?

Subhead 1.2.02, the salary position there – this is where I would imagine you were referring to earlier. Is there one –

MR. DALLEY: Yes, that is where we transferred basically two salaried positions. They stayed in the same positions but we transferred in the proper budget place, I guess, in Strategic Planning and Policy. These positions are a front desk position and a registrar's position. They have not changed. We just moved them to Strategic Planning and Policy because that is basically who they report to.

MR. BALL: Line item 03, Transportation and Communications, we went from a budget last year, $464,000, revision to $367,000, and this year's budget at $104,000.

MR. DALLEY: What we did again, that is basically moving some money around. What was happening in that particular administrative support section, we were taking care of some of the mail outs and the trade show booth costs, these kinds of things for Tourism, but it was being administered and taken care of in this section. So, what we have done, we have transferred roughly $360,000 out of that line item and it has gone to 2.1.01.03, which is over in Tourism.

MR. BALL: Okay, so I just want to question the revenue there, I see it is a consistent line. Obviously there is only $10,000, but where would you generate revenue?

MR. DALLEY: The two areas there, basically one is travel advances. Sometimes when people travel they get a travel advance, but then when we get that back, it has to come in as revenue. That is primarily what it is.

MR. BALL: Okay.

The next page would be the Strategic Planning and Policy, 1.2.03, and we see the salary increase – I think I know the answer there now – from $131,000, the revision is $343,000, to the estimate this year of $426,000.

MR. DALLEY: Yes, Salaries. Again, that is where the transfer has been reflected from admin support and those two positions will show up there.

MR. BALL: Okay.

Professional Services in the same category, 05, there was no budget last year and you spent around $100,000 for something. What was that for?

MR. DALLEY: That was basically in consultation through a process – in looking at the information management process within the department, we realized some work needed to be done, and working with OCIO as well. So, basically what that was is we hired an information management consultant to be able to come in and work with us in management protocols. What we did is we kind of scratched and clawed where we could, and that position was not a position, but it was a consultant that was hired to do that piece of work.

MR. BALL: That was information management, and what would they do?

MR. DALLEY: Basically, the issue that we wanted to address was the storing and accessing of information, and files and all kinds of things that go through the department. It is a process in terms of risk management and being able to ensure that we are following the proper protocols for managing the information in our department.

MR. BALL: Okay, good.

The next one under Capital – no surprise here to get a question on this one, being the Grants and Subsidies. I think I know what the answer is, but you had a budget last year of $2.8 million, up to $3 million, and then now up to virtually $9.5 million.

MR. DALLEY: The significant increase there is for the Colonial Building revitalization.

MR. BALL: That is what I thought.

MR. DALLEY: It is over $6.6 million. A part of that as well you will see, the revenue side, is the federal portion. That is the significant increase there under grants.

MR. BALL: When is that expected to be done?

MR. DALLEY: The Colonial Building?

MR. BALL: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: In 2014.

MR. BALL: Okay.

Did you have a question, Gerry?

MS ROGERS: I just have a question about the Colonial Building. What are the plans for it?

MR. DALLEY: As you know, it is a commitment that our government made in looking at the Colonial Building. One, it is obviously a very important heritage structure, but certainly a venue which will tell our very rich political history as well. There is a process that we have been following, different phases; I will get to that in one second.

We have different construction packages that we need to go through. Right now we are up to the second construction package. There are five in total. To date, the architectural design work has been completed. There have been some reports done on the historical structures themselves. In the Colonial Building there are two very significant murals on the ceilings. They have been restored as well.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MR. DALLEY: It is that process as we go through its outlines that we will be able to get to the point where obviously it is all done. It has to be done in phases and stages and try to protect the integrity of the heritage structure itself through the process.

MS ROGERS: Once it is completed, how will it be used? Is the whole building going to be primarily a historic site museum, or will we have anybody else involved in it?

MR. DALLEY: No, I think the plan is – obviously it is a historical part in the building itself and protecting that part of our heritage. As well, there will be some office space in there. Right now, my sense is it will be used by some of our own groups, some of our provincial associations and so on. I think I have that here. That is what we are hoping in terms of some of our heritage groups and our professional staff and so on, that we house here as well.

MS ROGERS: Some of the professional staff from within Tourism, Culture and Recreation or non-government organizations?

MR. DALLEY: Again, I am not sure how much space or exactly what would be available, but I do know there were some groups operating in the building. As we get the building done, the hope is that we would be able to have some of our provincial organizations there as well. It would be a little early to speculate as to what or how much of that we can do. Part of the vision and hope is that we would be able to provide space.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MR. DALLEY: It would be a great venue to work out of and it fits in. Once this building is done it will probably be the flagship of our historic sites in the Province. It is a significant investment but we certainly feel it is worthwhile.

MS ROGERS: It is a great move.

Thank you.

MR. BALL: In 2.1.01 Tourism Marketing, Transportation and Communications, we have seen some increase there; $345,000 last year, down to $259,000 and then up to $580,000 this year. It is a virtual doubling.

MR. DALLEY: The transfer of the $360,000 that we referenced earlier, that is where it is transferred, to this line item. That is the reason for the increase.

What we are seeing, the piece that was done in Admin Support in terms of supporting postage that was involved, as well as some of the communication. They had professional booth space. These kinds of things that were administered there are now going to be administered here.

MR. BALL: Is that part of the answer for 05. Professional Services, too? It went from $433,000 to $425,000, to $255,000.

MR. DALLEY: No. Professional Services, what you see there, particularly the decrease in professional services, last year we engaged in a number of surveys to get up-to-date and get some more accurate and current information about our tourism and what is happening in tourism trends so that we can support the operators out there in the Province.

We did surveys. Last year we did an exit survey. We did a resident survey, and we did a Labrador survey. This year we will not need to do those surveys, so ultimately, the reduction in that budget.

MR. BALL: Were they ever released?

MR. DALLEY: Not yet, because we are in the process. It will be, of course. Industry is certainly looking forward to it. It is quite a bit of information, and we are processing all of that and having it done so we can get out of that data what we need to get out of it. So, we are in that process of analyzing data.

MR. BALL: I do not ask that question to be probing, although I am curious.

MR. DALLEY: That is fine.

MR. BALL: All of this information is so important for communities to do up strategic planning, and you get obviously groups of areas.

For instance, the area that I live in, we look forward to having this kind of information that is current stuff that is available to us to be able to do strategic planning on communities in certain areas. So, I think the faster we can get that out there and make it available to those groups, it would be extremely important.

MR. DALLEY: If I can just add to that. The current information will identity our trends, our market, what people are telling us. That is going to feed not only our department and the direction that we would want to go in, but the private sector is a very important part of our tourism industry. They are looking for this kind of information to help guide their own personal investments as well, besides the non-profits. Obviously, IBRD is supporting the economy. So, it is a great circle that this information will certainly feed, no question.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

When can we expect some report?

MR. DALLEY: We are expecting something in the fall on the exit survey.

MS ROGERS: In the fall, great.

MR. DALLEY: It is certainly a priority for us, because as we know, with data and information we do not want to sit on it because it becomes outdated.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: We want to try and make it as current as possible, so the fall is our plan.

MS ROGERS: Have you seen any particular trends, just sort of a thumbnail sketch of any surprises or any trends that you might have been able to look at so far?

MR. DALLEY: We have some data on the Web site, and early information – what we are seeing, obviously, is a huge increase in air travel.

MS ROGERS: Air travel.

MR. DALLEY: Numbers are up significantly, and the road traffic is down in terms of the vehicle traffic. So that is one of the things that is kind of –

MS ROGERS: Coming into the Island.

MR. DALLEY: – seeing it is important and giving us some information. So, that is probably one of the things that jumped out early, and we have had those stats upfront. The surveys will give us more of a feedback from the tourists themselves and the personal experiences, and what they like or do not like, or information they can share with us.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MR. BALL: If we turn the page to the Strategic Product Development, 2.1.02.

MS ROGERS: Before you go ahead –

MR. BALL: Yes, sure.

MS ROGERS: Line 2.1.01, still Tourism Marketing. Grants and Subsidies, can we have a list of those?

MR. DALLEY: Sure.

MS ROGERS: Great, thank you.

I just have a few broad-stroke questions around Tourism Marketing as well – and I want to say congratulations on the successful marketing campaign. Lost and found is just great, and the marketing towards stay home is just great.

MR. DALLEY: Thank you.

MS ROGERS: So often we see people equating arts and culture, and tourism – that everything has to be done for outsiders. To celebrate within our own Province and to encourage tourism and attendance at arts and culture events within our own Province is just so laudable. I congratulate you on such a very gorgeous campaign and, I would imagine, a successful campaign. I would like to get to that, too.

What are the plans, or do you have any, for the coming year? Now, I know that would be planning for next year. Are there any specific plans or directions in your marketing for next year coming up?

MR. DALLEY: The short answer is yes. We have had tremendous success with the Find Yourself campaign. Obviously, we monitor that with some of the industry stakeholders as well, our Tourism Board, the people we work with, Target Marketing as well, that do a lot of work for us.

We have had tremendous success with that. As long as that continues to provide the appeal we want and we continue to get the tremendous feedback we get, obviously, we are going to stay focused on that campaign. It is about the chapters in our story, and we have many, many chapters and many stories left to tell. That will be our primary focus.

Throughout that whole marketing piece and throughout what we do to try and promote the Province, it is not just our ads. We have a lot of things we do to help promote Newfoundland and Labrador, whether it is through magazines, newspapers, supporting certain groups with some marketing support, our trade shows that we go to, or whatever might be the case.

We will continue to focus on those kinds of things, but our focus and our marketing focus will continue to be on our people, our culture, and our natural environment. Our focus is to get people to come to Newfoundland and Labrador. We believe we still have a great story to tell, so we will continue to focus in that direction.

MS ROGERS: Are there any plans for further and more creative uses of social media?

MR. DALLEY: Back to one of the trends that you had mentioned, we are finding more and more that the on-line tools are becoming the way of the future. Particularly in terms of what tourists and how they are managing their trips. We are doing some development around that. We are going to do more of the on-line. Uptake has been good. We feel we will get more. We see an uptake here and perhaps less in terms of travel guides and those kinds of things because people are going in to do their own.

As well, we are looking at developing an app.

MS ROGERS: Oh, good. I was just going to ask you that.

MR. DALLEY: So, we are trying to get modern, and our information tells us over 80 per cent of the people are carrying iPhones or BlackBerrys, or cellphones or iPads, so that is an area that obviously we are going to continue to focus on.

MS ROGERS: Are you working at all with any other departments within the provincial government looking at the gaps in the broadband services and cellphone coverage in the Province, as it relates to tourism?

MR. DALLEY: Well, obviously it is always a concern for us. We recognize that there are certain areas of the Province, and that is a part of, as we develop our on-line tools, we have to recognize that not everybody is tapped in on-line, and as well that some of things are not working in certain areas.

We continue to work closely with IBRD, in terms of our message and needs, and they continue to push as well, as we have seen with government investment, $8 million last year and $2 million this year in the Budget. We have come a long ways, as we know, when it comes to broadband and particularly that area. We have a ways to go, as well. We recognize there are a lot of smaller communities and regions that we want to continue to be able to get better quality, so we will continue to work together on that.

MS ROGERS: Have there been any audits done on the success of the program? We all feel in every fibre of our being that it has been very successful, but have we done any empirical work there in terms of –

MR. DALLEY: Maybe I could ask Mary if she could provide a comment on that.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: I guess the success in the program has been the growth in tourism, and that has been our primary indicator that we are on the right track. In 2010 we had a record number of non-resident visitors to this Province. In fact, it was as many people visiting here as live here. I think the compound growth has been about 3 per cent. We do –

MS ROGERS: Did you say 3 per cent?

MS TAYLOR-ASH: Compounded since 2003. Overall since 2009-2010 the growth was something like 7.3 per cent, and then the growth in expenditures from non-residents was over 9 per cent. So you are talking about the proof is kind of in the pudding in terms of the growth that we have seen.

We also do, with Agency of Record, target marketing. We obviously also work with them to see how things are in the marketplace, how our ads are being received, how our different kind of marketing activities are being received. So, we also work very closely with them to make sure that we are on mark and on target.

MS ROGERS: In any of your surveys are you looking at all at what the ad campaign promises and the satisfaction of tourists, in terms of what is delivered?

MR. DALLEY: (Inaudible) particularly with the exit survey, that is a core piece that we want to get a sense from tourists as to what their experience was like here in Newfoundland and Labrador. One of the themes obviously is come experience our people, our culture and our environment, come to Newfoundland and Labrador for a rich, authentic experience, and we want to hear back from them as to what it was like.

Through all of that as well, again we will work with our industry, our Tourism Board and Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador and our Destination Management Organizations. We are looking at taking some of that feedback and looking at the whole issue of quality assurance as to what actually is happening out there on the ground, specific experiences whether it is with a B&B, a restaurant or the whole service piece that is attached to our industry. We are looking forward to getting that information as well and that feedback.

MS ROGERS: I have just one last question in this area. The Atlantic Canada Tourism Partnership – how is that going? How much money is allocated for that? What are the benefits and has there been an audit on the success of that program?

MR. DALLEY: Maybe I would ask Mary to provide some feedback on that.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The Atlantic Canada Tourism Partnership is a very beneficial partnership that we have. We have spent about $480,000 to be part of that and it leverages so much more money because we are leveraging federal dollars. It enables us to be marketing in marketplaces where we as a Province would not be able to have – our brand could not standalone. Some of the destinations, for example, enable us to be in the UK and market there, as well as to do some work in Germany. We need to have the broader Atlantic Canada brand to be in that marketplace.

Also it enables us to be in the US in some markets there. Yes, it has been a very successful partnership.

MS ROGERS: Are there any other specific targeted populations or regions now that you are planning, like Japan for instance?

MR. DALLEY: I will let Mary answer again. It is a good point you make because, as we know, we want people from all over the world to come, but it is our research and what it tells us in terms of the target market who is travelling, what type of visitor we are getting and we focus on some key areas. Certainly some of the Canadian market, Calgary, Ontario, these are still prime markets for us, and the US as well to some extent. As we know the dollar fluctuates and has an impact on the US market but still a very important market to us.

MS ROGERS: Thanks.

CHAIR: Mr. Ball.

MR. BALL: Okay, we will keep going to 2.1.02, Strategic Product Development, the Professional Services. There was $100,000 budgeted last year, it does not look like we used much of it, and that is now gone.

MR. DALLEY: Sorry?

MR. BALL: Line 06, Purchased Services, or 05, Purchased Services.

MR. DALLEY: Purchased Services.

MR. BALL: Sorry, Professional Services. What is it we have discontinued there?

MR. DALLEY: Basically what happened there, that is a zero-based budget. Each year we would have to submit a budget so that as it works, if something comes up, we need to be budgeted for it. That was a zero-based budget, but we did not really use much in Professional Services. We transferred that funding as you will see to Purchased Services, which ultimately it ended up in Grants and Subsidies. That is how it worked. Basically it came out of Professional Services and ended up into the $100,000 increase in Grants and Subsidies from $321,000 to $421,000.

MR. BALL: Okay, last year.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MR. BALL: Okay, let us go right there then. Well no, the next line, the Purchased Services from $603,000 to $573,000 to $340,000, line 06. What was that?

MR. DALLEY: The decline in what you are seeing there in Purchased Services is primarily that we had one-time funding last year in which we looked at product development. That was over $300,000 in some product development initiatives. As a result of that it was just one time, so you see the reduction.

MR. BALL: That is good.

Culture and Heritage, 3.1.01., the only question I have there would be on the Grants and Subsidies. I am just wondering if there is a list of those available.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MR. BALL: Okay, so we can probably get those. I am assuming that when the information comes that whatever Gerry asks for or whatever I ask for, we would share it with both – are you okay with that, Gerry?

MS ROGERS: (Inaudible).

MR. DALLEY: We will provide it to the Chair, not a problem.

MR. BALL: Thank you.

The Arts and Culture Centres, 3.1.02, just the $3 million there under Purchased Services, 06, what is that?

MR. DALLEY: In the Purchased Services?

MR. BALL: Yes, it seems to be a consistent line.

MR. DALLEY: That piece there, here is how it works: Whenever there is a rental or a production that takes place in the Arts and Culture Centres around the Province, obviously there is an agreement with the production, whatever revenue is generated ends up going into Purchased Services.

Any payout that we have to do to productions, to any third party production, we have to do it through Purchased Services; hence, the fact that it was $2.9 million, for example, then it went to $3 million. We saw a slight increase because we saw an increase in production this year. So, the revenue generated from that goes into that pot. We have to budget so that we can take care of those productions. Is that clear?

MR. BALL: Yes, that is fine. It is a good answer. We looked at the revenue and that would have been my next question. So this is the offsetting line here, I guess.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MR. BALL: Good.

It seems to be there is a surplus there of around $400,000. Where does that go? When you look at your revenue, if that is offset with the Purchased Services, and it may not be as clean as that. There might be something else that is in the revenue line as well.

MR. DALLEY: The revenue comes into general revenue. Any revenue generated through Arts and Culture Centres comes back to government general revenue. That is why we have the budget upfront to be able to pay for the productions and so on, their share. That is how it works.

MR. BALL: Okay.

Line 3.1.03 – I know Gerry is going to want to ask that question, so I will not even go there.

I will go to 3.1.04, Grants and Subsidies. This would be The Rooms. That seems to be pretty straightforward.

MR. DALLEY: It is.

MR. BALL: There is $200,000 less. How do they feel about that?

MR. DALLEY: We have a great partnership with The Rooms, and I certainly want to acknowledge here the great work that they do and the tremendous facility that it is. Again, if you notice throughout, there are little pockets of money that we have shaved off and they are comfortable that we are going to be able to deal with that through administrative efficiencies. That is, again, what we have tried to do through this process without impacting programs.

I think the short answer is they are going to be able to absorb that, but I am sure, like everybody else, all of us, anytime there is any reduction we all have a need for more. I am sure they would prefer to have it the other way, but we are comfortable that they are going to be able to absorb that.

MR. BALL: This is my first year in this meeting, of course. I am just surprised there is no revenue here. What happens to the revenue at The Rooms?

MR. DALLEY: I would have to defer that question to Judith.

MS HEARN: The Rooms operates as its own corporation. So in their annual report and in their financial statements you would see any revenues coming in and how that was spent. Government gives The Rooms a grant, and then they manage that grant and run their operations.

MR. BALL: Okay. So that is the difference between The Rooms and the Arts and Culture Centres, for instance.

MS HEARN: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: We own the Arts and Culture Centres, but the corporation runs The Rooms.

MR. BALL: Okay, good.

That information would be available too, at some point?

MR. DALLEY: Oh, absolutely. They have to file an annual report.

MR. BALL: Yes, okay.

For me, the next one would be 3.1.07. There is a new salary position. This is the one you spoke about earlier, I would imagine. Is this one position, two positions?

MR. DALLEY: Two positions.

MR. BALL: Two positions, yes. It seems to be pretty straightforward.

Grants and Subsidies however, am I assuming there that it is moved somewhere else? That would be 3.1.07.10 Grants and Subsidies, $250,000 spent last year under the revision and nothing this year.

MR. DALLEY: Again, these were one time. This year, as you can see, from Special Celebrations there is some funding put there for the planning and process for the World War I commemorations.

MR. BALL: That grant would have been to whom?

MR. DALLEY: The one-time grants, one went to the International Congress on Traditional Music. We had funded that congress. As well, we are supporting the Placentia 350 celebrations this year. They had come forward with a proposal and we are supporting them through that funding as well.

MR. BALL: The rest of it is fairly straightforward, at least for me, except for 4.1.02. These grants and subsidies, I do not expect to see a list here today but it will be okay if we get that list. Could you provide the list under 4.1.02.10, these being the Grants and Subsidies?

MR. DALLEY: Sure.

MR. BALL: There are some there, of course, under 4.1.01. I guess what we are asking for is a list of grants and subsidies.

MR. DALLEY: A list of grants and subsidies, sure.

Those grants, as you know, particularly in the recreation area there are multiple grants in terms of community rec., senior rec., capital grants.

MR. BALL: They are much appreciated, I must say. All the groups that use them, they just love them.

That is pretty much it for me under this section.

Gerry, I wonder if you have some more questions there.

MS ROGERS: If we could go back to 2.1.02 under Tourism, Strategic Product Development. Line 06 Purchased Services.

MR. DALLEY: Strategic Product Development?

MS ROGERS: Yes, 2.1.02.06. I am so tempted to say it is a good bingo.

Purchased Services, can you give us a list of those? You said there was a one-time funding for product development. Can we have some kind of an idea of what kind of products were developed under that?

MR. DALLEY: There are a number of things there, primarily around season extension. Things like Roots, Rants and Roars; Trails, Tales and Tunes at the other end of the season. Part of what we are trying to do to expand our seasons. We hear from all of our stakeholders and the leadership within the industry. Our prime tourism season is very strong and solid, and we are finding more and more we are trying to extend the shoulder seasons. That particular line item there has enabled us to be able to support that and move out in both directions.

MS ROGERS: Well, it is going to be really interesting now with the federal government shrinking the shoulder season.

MR. DALLEY: That is one of the challenges. We will monitor that and continue to work with our Tourism Board and HNL. It is probably the most significant concern from a tourism perspective, with the recent Parks Canada announcements.

We have a tremendous tourism product and we do very well. We are very confident in our industry and the leadership, but that is one of the pieces. The potential fallout from this is how significant that will be. We have, through Uncommon Potential and our strategy, tried to focus on expanding our seasons. So this will be a concern for us and one we obviously have to monitor.

MS ROGERS: Of course, I want to ask: What are your plans? How are you going to deal with it? How can you mitigate some of the negative consequences for private operators in the Province? I know this news is so very new, unless you did know earlier. I am not sure.

MR. DALLEY: Upfront, it would be fair to say it is a little early to speculate. We only got this a few days ago, like everyone else. We look forward to having some discussion with the Tourism Board as well and looking closely at what some of these implications are.

Having said that, I am certainly encouraged as well that none of these sites are closing down. It is unfortunate we have to see that as a positive, but nothing is closing down which is positive. We still have a tremendous tourism product which is extremely positive as well.

It is too early to speculate as to exactly what it is going to mean and how it is going to unfold. Whether it is going to mean a shortened season, reduced hours, or what that will mean in various regions as well. A concern, but something that we are looking forward to having some conversations as well with the Tourism Board to see what the reaction is.

I will say that while it is disappointing, obviously, and a concern, I believe our tourism industry has been extremely resilient. We have come a long ways. We have growth when other parts of the country are in decline when it comes to tourism. Our numbers have been up and significantly growing. We have tremendous strengths.

I believe collectively as the industry, the leaders and the private sector as I referenced before, is an extremely important part of our tourism industry from private investment and reasons for surveys and these kinds of things. We have a tremendous volunteer base as we all know in the non-profit groups. These are the kinds of things that collectively I think we need to focus on the strengths of our industry and I am sure we will overcome this as well.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

What kinds of new tourism products are being developed?

MR. DALLEY: Tourism products – maybe I will have Mary give you a little idea of some of the things we are focusing on for this year.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The department is not so much responsible for developing products as trying to identify where potential gaps exist. We work with, and the minister has referenced, the Provincial Tourism Advisory Board. We work with them, and we are concentrating very much now on identifying what – doing a bit of a review about assets that we have, what we have in the Province, and where some of the gaps might occur to encourage private sector investment in tourism.

Our job is to be facilitators of that. We try to stay very true as well to what our core is, and very true to what we are promising out there in our marketing campaign. We are looking at things that really do reflect our culture, our heritage, and those kinds of things.

The minister has mentioned as well the season extension. We have been working very much with our industry on that. We have a very busy tourism season during the summer months. It is very busy; in fact, in certain places we are full. We need to extend on both sides. We have also been working very much on that. That is definitely a priority of working with operators to find ways to get people to either come earlier in spring or come later in the season in the fall and winter.

MS ROGERS: What are some of the gaps that you have identified?

MR. DALLEY: That is part of the process with the exit surveys and the information that will tell us in terms of the visitor experience. As was referenced, our numbers are up. Our numbers are telling us that we are on the right path and the right direction. We are obviously very encouraged by it; industry is very encouraged by it.

We are looking forward to the exit survey results because that will tell us firsthand of what the experiences were. Whether it is cell service, whether it is the service from a B & B, or whether it is about our roads, whatever might be, whether it is a negative or a positive, we will take from that and we will be encouraged as to which direction we really want to go in and identify those kinds of gaps.

MS ROGERS: Are there any plans for development of the North Coast of Labrador and its huge potential there with the ferry system as a tourist destination?

MR. DALLEY: I do not know about a specific plan. The northern part of Labrador, like many regions of our Province, is a rich area in culture and history. I believe, as well, and concur with your point it is an area of interest to people. As our investments in roads open up Labrador, we are going to see more and more. We have a Destination Management Organization in Labrador. The group is on the ground and we will work closely with them and they will work with us in terms of identifying what people are looking for and what visitors are looking for in the Labrador region as well.

There is so much potential in Labrador in the tourism aspect. Investment in roads will make a big difference as well. It is bringing a lot of positive attention. There are a number of things happening up there already. We will build on that obviously. We will work with our DMO. I understand as well the Nunatsiavut Government has some plans for tourism. We will work with them as well.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Somebody wanted to know: Is there any possibility of pursuing the designation of the Labrador husky as a recognized, unique heritage species?

MR. DALLEY: That is a good question, Gerry. I do not want to put someone on the spot here. It is an interesting question, but I do not know the process actually to get that designation. I do not know if Mark would know that.

MR. M. JONES: Two things: I would suggest that individual write and we would be able to have officials follow up with them as to the process one would follow. In general terms, for commemoration, we do have a Commemoration Board looking at people, looking at places, and looking at events. That is an example of one avenue we may be able to pursue and indicate to that person to work with that board. There may be others. Wildlife and designation of species I am sure is a subset of that. I would encourage that person to write and we can have someone follow up.

MS ROGERS: Great.

So again in Strategic Product Development, the Burin area: Is there any specific work being done to look at expanding the Burin tourism potential, that wonderful jewel down there?

MR. DALLEY: That will refer back to our strategy. I have referenced in a number of speeches, and I firmly believe it has been extremely positive for our industry, that we have been able to align our efforts in the tourism industry. Out of Uncommon Potential: Vision 2020 we have developed a Tourism Board who works closely then with Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador and our Destination Management Organizations. We have regional DMOs and there is a new Eastern DMO as well.

What that has done is ensure that we are focused and we are not going off in different directions. It has also enabled us to have people out there on the ground, leaders in the industry, and a place where private investors and our non-profit groups can connect. Through all of that, we are seeing there is more co-operation, there is more focus on what the needs are, and there is an avenue for our non-profit groups and the private groups to be able to work through and find out specifically what is happening in their regions.

It goes back to our focus: to be able to bring people to the Province. All of our regions are very unique in their own way. They all have their own stories to tell. Our DMOs are going to be an important organization to be able to channel that, to be able to work with the entities within the region, and to be able to focus on what direction they need to go in.

MS ROGERS: What I understand from that is there is nothing really specific at this time, but with the different planning groups and organizations –

MR. DALLEY: I will get Judith to speak to that in terms of some of the direction.

MS HEARN: Right now the Tourism Board is looking very seriously at – we have moved from product development to destination development. With respect to how we are working with the DMOs, you asked about gaps in the market in terms of product development. We are in the process now of inventorying what our assets are. Then that will give the DMOs the right list and the right provincial and regional look at what needs to be done. We are trying not to put the cart before the horse. We are trying to inventory and then plan with the DMOs.

In the case of Burin, that will be coming. We have started down that road. The specific projects will be determined by the actual DMOs that are closest in the region in concert with the overall plan through the Tourism Board. The department is leading on the inventory asset side so we can inform that conversation.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Port Union and the Coaker properties, in terms of development again?

MR. DALLEY: Regionally, as you go through, I firmly believe each region has their strengths. That is obviously one in that region.

Again, that will fit into the model and approach that Judith just referenced in terms of the DMO, working with the local groups and organizations, and channelling that then with our Tourism Board and with the overall strategy and plan. It is an important part of our tourism product, without question. As all of this unfolds and we look at inventory and where we are trying to get to, that will be a part of it for sure.

MS ROGERS: Will there be any effort by the Province to get back some of that property? For instance, the Coaker house, is that privately owned still?

MR. DALLEY: I will defer to Mark.

MR. M. JONES: That is, I will not say complicated but a complex situation.

MS ROGERS: It is, yes.

MR. M. JONES: Most of the properties are owned by the Coaker Foundation, but there are some individual, private residences. While we have provided some advice as to the process one would follow, really it comes down fundamentally to an issue between private landowners and the foundation, who work with the town.

It is an ongoing situation. The last word I heard, while it was awhile ago, was that things are somewhat more positive than perhaps they had been in the past. Beyond that, that is about where that situation is right now.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thanks.

Again, looking at Strategic Product Development: Where are we with ecotourism, adventure tourism, and geo-tourism? What is happening in that area in terms of developing those areas or strategizing about them?

MR. DALLEY: Specifically, what is happening on Fogo Island is all about ecotourism. I believe it is going to be one of the highlights this year in the Province with respect to tourism and what is happening with the Shorefast Foundation under Zita Cobb, as you know. We have been very supportive of what is happening. It is a tremendous development.

Through Shorefast, there has been exposure around the world. The tourism numbers are up for Fogo Island, the interest in tourism, the organization. The development on the ground of being able to receive tourists is on the rise as well. I can certainly see it. Again, I have been very close to that, what is happening on Fogo Island and Shorefast, and the whole development all the way through.

I see tremendous things happening. I think it is going to bring a lot of attention to the whole issue of ecotourism. It will blend in with adventure tourism, which has been an area in the last few years which has been more prominent in the Province. We are excited about what is happening on Fogo Island. As I said, it is going to be one of the highlights this year.

MS ROGERS: Is there any plan to look at encouraging, facilitating, helping the development of similar kinds of things? Probably not as large, not everybody has those kinds of deep pockets. We see that increase worldwide of ecotourism and adventure tourism, in terms of helping to facilitate the development of that in other parts of the Province.

MR. DALLEY: I think it goes back to our vision; it goes back to our Tourism Board and our organizations, different proposals and different interests and the different strengths of different regions in the Province. In this particular case in the Central region, it has been very positive. It is proposal driven and in this case it is private interest as well.

We are always open to new ideas and proposals to come forward. For us, obviously, we are guided by our strategy. We are guided by support from the Tourism Board and how we work together. Anything that comes forward from another region that has a potential in terms of our culture and our heritage, our promotion or preservation and any economic value that is there, obviously, we are interested and would be interested in developing and taking a look as to where it fits.

MS ROGERS: Back to Fogo, the ferry is a problem.

MR. DALLEY: It is. It is not a tourism matter in terms of a budget item.

MS ROGERS: It is getting there.

MR. DALLEY: I can speak to you on the Fogo Island ferry and keep going until suppertime if you like. It is a tremendous problem. It is not something that we do not recognize or we are not working on.

From a tourism perspective, obviously tourism is important and we have invested money out there. There is a lot of private investment and things are going in the right direction. Quite frankly, the negative publicity we get does not help our tourism industry at all, which is a concern from a tourism perspective.

MS ROGERS: That is right, yes.

MR. DALLEY: First and foremost, for the people of Change Islands and Fogo Island, that is their link to the mainland. It is very important to them. It is important to their daily lives. It is important to the commercial traffic, as well as important to the economy. We fully recognize that.

We are in a situation here now, a very, very unfortunate situation. There was some damage to the Winsor, she was out and had some extra work that had to get done. That is directed by Transport Canada. Added to that, the other ferry then had an oil leak. She had to come off, unfortunately. The ferry that was dispatched to go there ran into bad weather. It had to take a little longer to there. It gets there sometime today.

Again, I think it speaks to the position that we have taken. As Minister Hedderson has often referenced, we do have a strategy. We are making investments. The problem is we are trying to catch up. We went through a period of time where there were very little investments in our ferry fleet. As a result, it got to a stage where we are really trying to catch up.

We have two ferries build. There are six in design that are due out by November. The Winsor is another decision that was made over a year-and-a-half ago. The design work is just about done, should be done within the next few weeks. All the reason we are investing millions of dollars. It is something I am very supportive of.

I am very supportive of our rural communities and our island communities. I am certainly pleased with it and hopeful we will get some of this sorted out in the short term, and obviously continue with our long-term plans.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The Air Access Strategic: Taking Flight was released in 2010, with one of the goals to establish Newfoundland and Labrador internationally as a preferred destination for tourism and business. What recommendations have been implemented? Where are we with the recommendations from that?

MR. DALLEY: The thing for us in the tourism industry, our ad campaign. Our ad campaign is what markets Newfoundland and Labrador from a tourism aspect. We firmly believe that Newfoundland is a place you want to come and live, and work, and visit, but ultimately stay.

That is the line we have taken in the Air Access Strategy, which is in Innovation, Business and Rural Development. They manage the Air Access Strategy, but it is to work with airlines. We do not subsidize seats, but it is about helping to market different routes and encouraging new routes to make Newfoundland and Labrador more accessible.

MS ROGERS: You are encouraging new routes. What do you see are the main challenges there in terms of air access and tourism?

OFFICIAL: Air Canada.

MR. DALLEY: Fair enough.

There are two challenges: accessibility, the number of routes coming to and back and forth the Province; but obviously, the cost as well. Air travel, as we all know, is extremely expensive. Having said all of that, we have seen over an 8 per cent growth from last year in our airline traffic. So, it is hard to argue the numbers when you are seeing such a positive increase, but I guess through our own marketing and what we are seeing, obviously, it is an area that is providing growth to our Province and we are encouraged by it. We encourage as much flight into Newfoundland and Labrador as we can get.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MR. BALL: Just to go back to that area, when you say 8 per cent growth, are you talking about air traffic in general or just tourist air traffic?

MR. DALLEY: Air traffic in general.

MR. BALL: Is there a way to actually separate that because –

MR. DALLEY: There is, but the definition of a tourist is very broad. If somebody comes in here for a conference, for a three- or four-day conference, they are a tourist. Even through they may not be here specifically to tour the Province, they do partake, so it is very board.

MR. BALL: Yes, I know it is difficult to separate. Obviously, I live in an airport town and it really the base of our economy, but with that said I do recognize the fact that Fort McMurray is having a huge impact on the amount of air travel in our district too.

MR. DALLEY: I think there is way to – again, the airlines would provide some of that to us, but they are the ones who would have the data.

MR. BALL: Yes, exactly.

MR. DALLEY: The other point, if I might, Dwight, back to the exit survey, that will tell us some of this information as well.

MR. BALL: I agree. Continuing with that, of course, one of the biggest challenges that we find in the summertime, and I know you guys have done some work with it in the past, you know what I am going to say, that being around car rentals. Where are we with that now? I know you did some work on that. Is there anything that we can expect in that area?

MR. DALLEY: We commissioned a study – maybe I can get Mary –

MS TAYLOR-ASH: We commissioned a study because we knew we had a big problem in the Province and industry was very concerned about it. What was happening was we did not have enough car rentals available, either on the West Coast with people coming in there and, certainly, coming into St. John's.

The study we did with Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador told us that it was a problem, but the problem was quite contained within a short period of time. We had an issue over, I think, probably a six-week period that was really a bottleneck, so we took some actions. One, we put together a working group committee and we had at the table car rentals companies. So, now we are dialoguing with them. One action that we took which is actually alleviating some of the pressure is that through our Visitor Information Centres that we have at both Deer Lake Airport, operating year-round, and St. John's Airport, operating year-round, we use those as the information centre for car rental companies now to let our people know where there is availability.

Part of what we found in that study, and the study is available on-line on the government Web site, was that there were some times rentals available, but there was no way to connect those with the travelling public. That is one thing we have done that has helped tremendously. That is just an information piece. We are sharing better information for travellers coming in.

The other specific action we took that is also reaping dividends is we put more information out in the public domain on our Web site in our traveller's guide that says: If you are coming to our beautiful Province, we want you to be able to get around and see it, so please book your car before you come here. Do not come here and get disappointed because you cannot get a car. Even that kind of information dissemination has been extremely helpful with lessening the problem. That is where we are right now, and it is improving.

Also, on the other side, car rental companies are responding to the demand. They are constantly growing their fleets based on the demand and the information we are giving to them, saying: Well, the numbers are up in July next year; therefore, you need to make sure you are prepared for that business demand.

MR. BALL: Just back to the Labrador tourism: Do we have a development officer in Labrador right now?

OFFICIAL: Yes.

MR. BALL: We do? That is in which area? Would it be in Happy Valley-Goose Bay?

MR. DALLEY: Lab West.

MR. BALL: Oh, Lab West.

MR. DALLEY: Again, it is through the DMO.

MR. BALL: You mentioned identifying the gaps through the DMO, through the Tourism Board, and obviously that would follow up into the department.

Once you identify an asset base, how do you address that? One of the things you mentioned there is about the inventory and the assets around. If a DMO actually came and said we have identified this particular area where there is an asset actually missing, how would you address that? Would you do that strictly through public-private partners or through other departments? Just an idea of where you would go with that if there was a significant asset you recognize as being (inaudible) –

MR. DALLEY: We have tourism development officers regionally on the ground for people to go and have early discussions, similar to the IBRD offices that have people there as well. Generally what happens, particularly in tourism – and people come forward because I get them come to me all the time. We do not have funding to start tourism operations. That is not our role. Anything to do with a tourism operation, really it is a small business or depending on the nature of it. It is redirected to Innovation, Business and Rural Development and tied to business plans and so on.

Our role is to help facilitate that with our tourism development officer, work closely with IBRD so that we are focusing on our strategy and what the market is telling us and what the trends are. We would help provide that kind of information. As well, through our department we encourage, where we can, and make our staff available to encourage partnerships in terms of private investment, or the non-profit sector and trying to encourage that type of development where we can.

MR. BALL: I know you would be disappointed – I am about to wrap up my questions and I am sure you would be disappointed if I did not ask the question on snowmobiling. Is it too early to tell where the season has been for the federation or for the industry in general?

MR. DALLEY: We have not had a meeting recently. I was fortunate enough to have discussions with them and we monitored very closely this year. They have had a couple of seasons where it has been a real challenge, weather being a part of it among other things.

We built a positive relationship with the Snowmobile Federation. We have monitored what has happened this year; we have supported them as well. The marketing effort alone I think was very positive. We have listened to their concerns.

What we have kind of concluded is that we need to take a closer look – and we are going to support them in this – at how they do business, what their plans are, what the future is going to be, whether it is sustainable in the current position that they are in, whether the model actually works. We get different feedback from different areas of the Province, as you would know.

We are collectively going to be working together now in the coming months to get a better handle on what the users are saying. It is a user-pay system; there are challenges out there, without question. We are going to get out there and hear from people and see what we can do to work with the Snowmobile Federation to ensure that they have a fabulous product; it is an important part of our winter tourism product. There is potential there for growth, without question. Through all of that we will continue to work with them and see which direction we need to go in.

MR. BALL: As you know, I live kind of right in the middle of all of this so I am very familiar with the impact it can have, both in a negative way and in a positive way. I would absolutely encourage you to do whatever you can do as quickly as possible because this whole industry is at a tipping point right now. It could go either way.

The experiences over the past few years have been mixed. If we soon do not address some of the problems we see here – and I am not here to make specific suggestions on where I might think the problems are today. I would not mind having a discussion on it. I think we all know that they need to be addressed.

In our own area, for instance, on the West Coast, it is a very complementary product. Especially in some of the smaller communities, it can have such an impact on what happens there in the wintertime when there is really not much else to do. I would certainly impress upon you to do whatever you can so that next year we can get off to a great start.

MR. DALLEY: I certainly appreciate those comments.

It is about users, but it is about, as you referenced, smaller communities as well. Economically it is very important, whether it is a hotel, the gas bars, or whatever might be the case. That is certainly not lost on us or the industry, as well. Overall, this year was probably better than other years, the last couple of years anyway. There are some decisions that need to be made and there are some things to look at.

Our message to the federation, and to their credit they certainly agree and agree to co-operate in this, is that we really need to hear from the stakeholders and we really need to hear from the users in the different regions of the Province, and hear their suggestions and concerns. We look forward to that. From there, I agree with you, we want to get to the point where we can continue to have a good product.

MR. BALL: Good.

MS ROGERS: Outfitters – are there any policy-planning work being done in partnership, for instance, with Environment and Conservation to make that a more sustainable industry? Are there any new options or new species?

MR. DALLEY: We work very closely with the Outfitters Association throughout the year and recognize it is a tremendous industry with tremendous potential. They, too, are not without their challenges. We are working with them very closely. They have some proposals into us. We are doing some evaluation and analysis on that to try to help the industry.

As well, that is a piece from us. There is a whole side of the outfitting industry as well that belongs in Environment. The moose management issues and those kinds of things are done through the Department of Environment. Our side, from a tourism side, is that obviously the non-resident hunter is what drives the outfitting industry and, of course, that is where our role comes in.

We are working closely with them and we have a great rapport with them. We have some proposals in from them that we are looking at and we are optimistic that we are going to be able to help them out and see that industry grow.

MS ROGERS: What do you see as some of the major challenges and what is the wish list of the outfitter industry?

MR. DALLEY: There are a number of things. I think one is sustainability, not only sustainability of the moose management piece, again it is out of Environment, but that is a key issue. That is the resource that they need to be able to offer the product. That is a critical piece for them and how that is managed and the different decisions that are made around that, and I know they have has some good conversations with Minister French, as well. We both met with them actually, we want to hear what they are saying, what they are recommending to us.

That is one area, but the sustainability of their organization itself is important. They play a very important role so they are challenged there. Of course, funding becomes a challenge for them, so that is one of the areas again that they are talking with us to see if there are ways or means in which something can be done to help support the association.

The other areas, as well, I guess is the whole utilization. The outfitting industry has been around a long time in this Province and within the industry itself there are small players and big players and that creates different challenges and different plans in different areas, so it relatively complex, but the reality is we do have a number of outfitters out there that want more licences. They believe they can sell more; they believe they can drive the industry. So how we get around that, the policy and the directions that we can do to ensure that we protect the industry and we protect all players in the industry, are some of the things that we are engaged in talking back and forth with.

MS ROGERS: As the Minister of Tourism, what would you like to see happen there for them?

MR. DALLEY: What would I like to see?

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: I would like to see the outfitting industry become stronger. It is an important part of our tourism product, but it is a very delicate industry. There are other facts that impact your industry, like the economy and the Canadian dollar; all of these kinds of things have a strong bearing on the industry.

I would like to see it get to the point where outfitters that want to grow this industry and do more, that we can enable them to do that. Not just us because it is not strictly up to us, but certainly work with the Outfitters Association to develop the right policies that can meet those challenges. I believe, again, in listening to the outfitting industry, they believe they have still great potential and I am excited about that. I want to move forward with those kinds of things.

MS ROGERS: Catch and release recreational fishery, how is that working for us in tourism, then with the fishery, with environment?

MR. DALLEY: The outfitting industry represents that side as well. To be honest, we have not had a lot of conversations about the angling side. No doubt, there are some challenges there but right now I think they are focusing on the broader piece of the outfitting. I have not had discussions on the angling side.

MS ROGERS: Muskrat Falls and water rights agreements, how will it affect the recreational tourist industry? Will that at all, fishing, boating, or hiking?

MR. DALLEY: There is no discussion that we have had at this point. Muskrat Falls is a significant development. Anytime we see these kinds of developments, it is weighed against some other things as well. The Province has been pursuing Muskrat Falls and all the issues surrounding Muskrat Falls. I am sure that is a part of it that will be captured as well. At this point, we have not had any (inaudible).

MS ROGERS: Has tourism kind of looked at it, looked at Muskrat Falls with that lens in terms of any effects?

MR. DALLEY: Something of that magnitude. Typically throughout, depending on the nature of the project and what is happening, there are interdepartmental committees where comments can be made and any concerns raised and issues and so on. That would be the general process, but at this point we have not raised any significant concerns at all.

MS ROGERS: I have just one more question before we move on to culture. The UNESCO Heritage sites, is there any work being done to try and further the number of UNESCO sites we might have? Like, for instance, Red Bay or Mistaken Point? Is the Province –?

MR. DALLEY: There are two of those areas actually. The process to become a UNESCO World Heritage site is very lengthy.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: It takes a number of years. It is a tremendous undertaking but we are supportive and will be to do what we can, both in the Red Bay area and the Mistaken Point. To go through to get that particular designation, there are environmental issues as well. There are all kinds of things related to that. So, it is ongoing. We are encouraged by it.

MS ROGERS: There is a concerted effort, though, to –

MR. DALLEY: Yes, very much so, and environment would be part of that as well.

CHAIR: Excuse me, Ms Rogers, if I could suggest that we take a ten minute break; if anybody wants to stretch their legs or go to the washroom. I can see a few antsy people there.

OFFICIAL: Mr. Chair, maybe we should check to see how much longer we would need.

CHAIR: Yes, Ms Rogers.

MS ROGERS: I have some questions and line items on Culture and Heritage.

OFFICIAL: Okay, so we will need –

CHAIR: Yes, we will need a fair bit of time.

Okay. A quick ten; back at 10:40, if everybody could come back on time, please.

MS ROGERS: Perfect, thank you.

CHAIR: I want to reconvene, if I could, and I will go to Ms Rogers. You can continue with your questioning.

MS ROGERS: I have just one more question before we move off into Culture and Heritage. I cannot wait to get there.

St. Anthony as a cruise ship destination: With all of those wonderful things happening up there with Iceberg Alley and L'Anse aux Meadows, is there any plan to look at encouraging, fostering, and exploring that? I know there are some structural infrastructure problems there that are not insurmountable in terms of boats docking and whatnot.

MR. DALLEY: I will refer to Mary for that.

MS TAYLOR-ASH: We work with the Cruise Association of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is how we engage in the cruise market; we assist them with some marketing activities. When it comes to infrastructure and the development of the product, they are the ones who are very much engaged on the ground with that.

In terms of growing cruise in this Province, of course we are quite interested and always looking at opportunities there. I would not be able to comment specifically on the infrastructure in the St. Anthony area.

MS ROGERS: (Inaudible).

MS TAYLOR-ASH: The source for that information would be more of the Cruise Association.

MS ROGERS: As a Province in doing your planning and policy, and strategic development, as the department facilitating, exploring and encouraging certain types of activities in different areas, is –

MR. DALLEY: Back to the point of our Tourism Board and the hospitality industry itself and particularly the regional DMOs, that is the alignment that we have been able to do to carry forward on all kinds of things as I referenced, in terms of different regions and their strengths, and to be able to be connected at that level. Ultimately again, though, in terms of development, whether it is private or non-profit groups and involvement with Innovation, Business and Rural Development and through our structures as well, if there were proposals or interest, that is how that would evolve.

MS ROGERS: I am just wondering is there any interest or is that on anybody's radar at all in terms of looking at and encouraging the –

MR. DALLEY: Specifically the cruise industry, as Mary referenced it, it is the cruise industry that drives the industry, and we are there to support them in any way with marketing. That is primarily what we do; we do not have the infrastructure or funding.

MS ROGERS: Yes, I know that.

MR. DALLEY: I have to go back to our goal in working with the leaders in the industry is to drive our tourism numbers. We want to get them up, we want to build a very unique, authentic product here in Newfoundland and Labrador, and if there are proposals and interest, that can help shape that.

Ultimately, again the question is sustainability and these kinds of issues are creeping into more and more every day in any new developments that we are looking at, or supporting, or the direction we need to go in has to be sustainable when you factor all that in.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: Anything that is going to drive our tourism numbers up, we are interested.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Cultural and Heritage – but just before we leave that again the Tourism one, in 2.1.02, Dwight, had you asked for 06, a list of the Purchased Services? If not, could we have that?

MR. DALLEY: Purchased Services, the product development piece and those kinds of things?

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: I am sure we can.

MS ROGERS: Okay, that would be great.

Subhead 3.1.01. Culture and Heritage – Dwight has already asked for the list of the grants and subsidies.

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MS ROGERS: In Purchased Services, we see a dip there from the budget to the revised, and then a dip again from previous years' budgets to this year's budget. Can you talk a little bit about what kind of purchased services were there?

MR. DALLEY: The numbers in Purchased Services, we budgeted $348,800 and it went down to $166,400. What you will see is there are lots of times within different sectors that we are shifting money around because different priorities or different things come up. Particularly in Purchased Services, we were able to see some cost savings, reallocations of different things, and be able to use the money elsewhere.

In particular in Purchased Services, things like support for the Provincial Historic Sites, the Arts and Letters Competitions, or other things we need in terms of support for general operations is generally what comes out of the Purchased Services section. That will vary from year to year.

MS ROGERS: When you say support for the historic sites, what does that mean?

MR. DALLEY: Well, we have Provincial Historic Sites and there are different things we may need to do. We may need to spend some funding to help the managers in the sites, do something with the buildings themselves, for the operations, and these kinds of things.

MS ROGERS: Would any of that include money for non-profit groups, for historic groups?

MR. DALLEY: Not in that line item, no.

MS ROGERS: Not in that? Okay.

The Strategic Cultural Plan that was launched in 2006 has expired, I assume? Is it? Is there a new plan that is being planned?

MR. DALLEY: Mark has a little more of the corporate history when it comes to the cultural plan. So, Mark, if you would.

MR. M. JONES: You are correct, Ms Rogers. The 2006 cultural plan was launched in 2006; however, there is no expiration date on that plan. It continues to guide us. Its nine foundational key directions are still relevant and we work on them continuously with our sector partners. That would include the Arts Council, the Heritage Foundation, and The Rooms, all-in, and basically we continuously work to strive towards those goals. They are reflected in our strategic plan. Also reflected in our strategic plan are action plans of the Arts Council, The Rooms, the Commemoration Board, and the Heritage Foundation.

So, we continue the work, we continue the investments and sometimes that notion, I think, may come from the fact that the initial investment plan that came with the cultural plan was announced at the same time, but that investment continued and continues.

MS ROGERS: So you see that strategic plan as an overriding plan that will continue on?

MR. M. JONES: Correct.

MS ROGERS: Have you had any audit to look at the success of the plan or the implementation of the plan, how it is going?

MR. M. JONES: Yes we have, but qualitatively inside the department. We meet regularly, twice annually actually, with both the arts sector and the heritage sector and we collect our data. We actually have, very deliberately in the last eight or nine months, struck a working group on collecting some cultural statistics so that we can better inform as we move forward. The most immediate plans are to – now that we are about five years in and those investments have been made, we are collecting that data and compiling a plan to formally evaluate, on a larger scale, the cultural plan as launched.

MS ROGERS: Can we have access to some of the reporting of that?

MR. M. JONES: Information basically comes out in our strategic plan and in our annual reports every year. We can certainly collate that, yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

What was the amount for the CEDP last year and what is budgeted this year?

MR. DALLEY: Around $1.53 million.

MS ROGERS: Sorry?

MR. DALLEY: Totally, the CEDP was over $2.9 million.

MS ROGERS: That was last year and for this year, the budget –

MR. DALLEY: It is very similar, a slight decrease, but very similar.

MS ROGERS: The other information that I would like about that – and I do not know if you can give it now, maybe you will have to get back to me – is how many applied through that program? What was the level of application? How much was given out? How much was refused? Could we have an idea of that?

MR. DALLEY: We could provide some of that information for you. As you know, it is application driven.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: Various components of that. We try to do what we can to support as many groups. As we know, small amounts of money mean so much to them. We can provide you with as much information as possible, sure.

MS ROGERS: Okay, that would be great.

The cuts to CBC and the closure of Studio F will have a real negative effect on the local music industry. It is a horrible loss to the music industry, to the recording industry. I am wondering if the Province has any plan to somehow help or offset that great loss. It is going to have such a negative impact on the music industry.

MR. DALLEY: I certainly concur with you that the federal cuts – and again it is a little early to speculate as to how deep or what impact. The music side and some of the programs as was referenced at the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council awards show, we are concerned about that.

At this point we are not in a position to replace the federal funding portion of that. We will lobby – I have some meetings coming up as well and I am looking forward to being able to share with my counterparts the concerns and the impact. Having said that, it is still early and we are looking forward to hearing from industry as well.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The seal memorial and interpretation centre in Elliston, they said for every $2 raised the Province will match $1. If they have raised $1.6 million – is it where they are at now – where will the $800,000 from the Province come from?

MR. DALLEY: That piece is with Municipal Affairs.

MS ROGERS: Municipal Affairs? Not culture and tourism even though it is a heritage site?

MR. DALLEY: No, obviously we are supportive –

MS ROGERS: Sorry?

MR. DALLEY: Obviously we are supportive of that kind of an initiative, but it is through Municipal Affairs.

MS ROGERS: Municipal Affairs.

MR. BALL: That is Cabot 500, right?

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you.

The Provincial Historic Sites, how are they doing? What are some of the stars? Which ones have the greatest challenges? What is the state of the art of our –

MR. DALLEY: Mark, I will let you get this.

MR. M. JONES: We realized quite a significant increase in activity and rejuvenation, if you will, with our Provincial Historic Sites. Very deliberately sought after, captured in the cultural plan. Over the past, three, four years in particular, we have undertaken innovative approaches on our programming and our interpretation. We have enhanced, changed, and made more modern most, if not all of the interpretive plans and the stories that are told at our sites.

For example, the Commissariat House here in St. John's had launched just last summer its new interpretative plan and the story that it tells there. Bonavista, Trinity, the network across the Province, through our staffing, through our efforts, have all had that rejuvenation. Visitation is up, our presence is up, and we are generally very pleased with how it is also being aligned and plugged into our efforts on the tourism side of the department. That has been very deliberate in a lot of the conversations and collaboration inside of our own department.

MS ROGERS: So, Mark, how are they run and how are they staffed?

MR. M. JONES: They are staffed by provincial employees – some permanent, some seasonal. We have a manager position, just three years – that was one of the initiatives that government undertook, actually, was the permanent hiring of a provincial historic site manager, working with our director of heritage, and that has helped us realize most of the gains. We have a lot of incumbent staff, season staff, and they are the primary movers of what happens at our Provincial Historic Sites.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

So then, community groups or heritage groups, for instance, like the Rose Blanche lighthouse, or the museum up in Conche, those are not specifically provincial heritage sites, but very much, I would think, target destinations for tourism and very valuable in the tourism scenario. There seems to be a problem with funding for the groups that are running these very valuable, I think, sites. Some of the problems that seem to be are some that have traditionally relied on JCP, either not getting the JCPs or the JCPs coming too late for the tourist industry. The other thing is the SWASP announcements – too late.

I have worked in the tourist industry; I owned a fantastic inn in Carbonear, and also worked with some of the drama groups that tried to get events happening in Carbonear. Pete Soucy was out there with the Sheila NaGeira festival. It had to fold because the announcement of funding is too late. We are seeing that all over the Province.

I am wondering if the Department of Tourism has done any work around that area, encouraging the shifting of deadlines and announcements. We know what happens is that if a drama festival is going to take off, they need to know before June whether or not they can offer people jobs and the preparation time that involves. I am wondering if the Department of Tourism will play a role there with those who administer SWASP and JCP.

It is a very critical problem because what is happening is some of the groups are saying to us they are not going to be able to fulfill their mandates this summer or they will not be able to do it the way they want to do it. Particularly for those who are doing interpretive services, drama, or festivals to not know soon enough. It is a major issue in tourism, I would think.

MR. DALLEY: Specific to JCPs, as you know, it is administered by Advanced Education and Skills. In terms of timing, I know the JCPs have been announced, so the timing issue is that it is good timing to be able to get out. What happened last year is there were some delays, but the model was revamped a little bit in terms of intake, assessment, and so on. Last year created a bit more of an issue, but I am certainly pleased the JCPs are announced early this year. I am sure the work is continuing with SWASP.

We are certainly well aware of all of the issues around operations and management of so many of our tourism venues around this Province. Every one of us in all of our communities has very valuable operations occurring, particularly the non-profit sector, as well as the private area. You are right: Timely announcements are very important. People need to plan and get ready.

I will say one of the challenges we are all faced with is there is more and more demand for funding. We understand that operational costs are increasing, salaries are increasing, utility bills are increasing, and all kinds of things. A lot of these venues are in older buildings that require restoration and maintenance, but the reality is we just cannot do everything. That is why we try to spread it out as much as we can. Small amounts of money become very, very important to these operators through our grants. Likewise, any opportunity through government funding for staffing becomes important as well and we recognize that.

We are faced with those challenges. So, timely to get it out and I certainly appreciate your comments, the importance of the JCP and the SWASP as well.

MS ROGERS: Yes, I think that they really are. It is really hard on people's personal lives, in particular people who work in this industry who work for very, very little money in the non-profit sector to provide these kinds of services. It is very difficult.

MR. DALLEY: That is a part of it. I think for me as well, though, we have so many volunteers who put so much time into their communities and helping to protect and promote the local heritage. It is important to their community. It is not easy, there is volunteer burnout, there are challenges to get more volunteers, and all of these kinds of things I believe play a role in that as well.

The other side in terms of it, if I could make a brief comment, our government over the number of years has really increased the minimum wage and brought it to where it is today. It has been a great help, no question. I remember my days working in the museums and working in the lighthouse, tour guides and all that stuff, there was very little pay then. At least it is a little more now, but point well taken.

MS ROGERS: Yes, and I know like Rose Blanche, the lighthouse did not get their JCP; the museum up in Conche did not get their JCP. I do not know what that is going to mean for this summer. Those are important attractions.

MR. DALLEY: No question and those are two; I could list many as we know.

MS ROGERS: There are more.

MR. DALLEY: As I said we all have them. The department is aware of it and working through those kinds of issues. The challenge is there is only so much funding, and how do we direct that and make the best use of it. That is the (inaudible).

MS ROGERS: Speaking of funding, the Museum Association of Newfoundland and Labrador, they lost what? There was a cut of $1.5 million federal funds which leveraged other monies for them. That was the money that they used to provide training to community groups about archiving photos, sound recordings, preservation of our stories. Is there any plan to somehow help with that?

MR. DALLEY: We help all of those associations where we can. We are not in a position to be replacing the federal funding that is cut at this time.

MS ROGERS: I understand that.

MR. DALLEY: We are quite concerned about that and we will continue to work with them to see if and what we can do to support them, but we are not in a position to replace the federal funding.

MS ROGERS: It is a big loss.

MR. DALLEY: Huge.

MS ROGERS: Not just the money, but our stories and what that means to our cultural heritage.

Visitor Information Centres – on the Northern Peninsula, there is just the one at Deer Lake and there is nothing beyond Deer Lake, is there?

MR. DALLEY: Provincially, it would be ICs.

MS ROGERS: We have two?

MR. DALLEY: We have two in Deer Lake. There is one on the main highway in Deer Lake and there is one at the airport in Deer Lake.

MS ROGERS: Nothing further up the Northern Peninsula?

MR. DALLEY: Not provincially, no.

MS ROGERS: Is there any plan for addressing that, as we see more tourism up in that area?

MR. DALLEY: The issue with the ICs – we are looking at a review of the ICs, our provincial VICs and a number of things, I guess, in terms of operations. As well as visitations, there are a number of things – again, go back to the on-line comments and the issue of an app and so on. What we are finding are more and more people are finding their own way – trip planning and all kinds of things that are happening.

So that is factoring into the number of visitations, but with that said, they still play a very valuable role and staff do a great job there. We will add summer students there as well and it is an important role that they play, but we are doing a review in terms of how this is going to look in the future.

MS ROGERS: Are there any plans for changes in hours of operation?

MR. DALLEY: No plans at this point.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Staff training, where does that budget come out of for staff training for Visitor Information Centres?

MR. DALLEY: Tourism Product Development.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Great, thank you.

Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, 3.1.03, we know that we are among the lowest in the country. I know that there was a significant increase and now we have a problem of success, which is a good problem to have, I think. The applications have doubled and I think when we look at the arts and culture programming at MUN, at Grenfell and at Stephenville, we are making it more possible for our youth and our people to see that culture and arts is important. So, they come out of school and they want to get at it and do their work.

We see a definite increase in the application process, but it is not enough. We did really well when we had the increase, but now we are pretty close to the bottom again in terms of the per capita funding for arts and for the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council in the country. Now less than a third of applications can be funded.

I have sat on those juries over the years. It is really tough because we are not turning down proposals that are half-baked or not very interesting. We are turning proposals from even very senior, experienced artists. We know that artists are among the lowest paid in the country and in our Province in terms of their earning capacity.

I am wondering if there is any plan to expand that. The Arts Council is one of the only places for funding for new ideas and for the development of ideas. Almost any major production or tourist or cultural event that we have in the Province started with a small grant from the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council. Without it, we will have nothing.

I know what the budget is this year. I know it seems the cut is insignificant in some ways, but it sends a message and we have been over that. Going forward, is there any plan to –

MR. DALLEY: If I could comment, Gerry. I certainly appreciate your passion. I know it is a strong background of yours and I respect that as well.

A few points that you touched on we need to recognize. In terms of respect and appreciation for the arts and the value of the arts in our Province, I do not think that is lost on anyone. Certainly not us and certainly not the people we sit around with and discuss our budget issues with and so on.

The key point here is that we are having tremendous success with the arts. Since our strategy, I particularly point back to that, and with the great leadership from the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, we have come a long ways. By and large, success is the product of what we have been able to do as a government.

When a number of years ago federal funding got cut, we were the ones who helped replace some of the federal funding in the Culture and Heritage arts side. When we look at globally what we are doing in the arts, we have been able to help fuel the success, and that is not to take away from the arts community at all.

You referenced Grenfell, and I know there are Grenfell graduates working throughout the industry. It is tremendous. It is our own students graduating in the Province, and we want that to continue. I think the point you are making about the success, it is a good story. It does put us in a place, and we recognize, with that success comes expectation and more demand.

I recently met with the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council. I had a great conversation with Tom and all of his crew. I have to say, I was really excited to be able to sit there and listen to them talk about what is happening around this Province in the arts. It is unbelievable.

We all concur that the arts are now in a place, perhaps better than ever before, where the people of the Province have more respect and appreciation. I say all of that to preface the fact that we understand that. We went through a budget exercise where we tried to minimize this impact. We are having the same number of grants out there available for people. The number of grants will not change. In talking with the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council the funding will not change.

We fully recognize that when we get in a position we need to do more. Right now, we are not in that position. If I were to go down through what we are doing for the arts in this Province in terms of Arts and Culture Centres, the CEDP for the arts, the Art Procurement Program, the Arts and Letters Competition, the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council, Music NL, the whole film industry. If I go down through all that, it is a priority for us and an importance for us, but we just hit this spot right now.

I believe, whether it is dance or theatre, the visual arts, music, literary work, all of these aspects of the arts have probably never been stronger, more vibrant and more exciting than it is right now and have the respect and appreciation of the Province, and becoming more and more important I think in the whole aspect of recruitment. When I look at all of that, we understand. We have tried to minimize through this process and not lose the success that we have had.

We will work closely with the arts community and when we are in a position, I can assure you, I will be the first one to advocate that we be able to do more.

MS ROGERS: I think we have to continue to talk about not what we are doing for the arts but the investment in the arts, and that it is an investment. Because we see a very tangible, real return in any investment dollars in the arts. It is a bit scary to think that we are in a time of prosperity, yet we are cutting to the arts.

The Rooms: great works, great exhibits, a wonderful treasure, great programming, bringing in children, fantastic. Can you tell me what the numbers are like? Have we been seeing an increase in visitors to The Rooms? There has been a decrease in funding.

CHAIR: Say your name first, please.

MS HEARN: Judith Hearn.

I would be happy to provide that information to you. I do not have it in front of me today, but certainly I sit on the board of The Rooms. It is a very exciting time. There is lots of good news, and everything is moving forward in the right direction, so I would be pleased to provide some information.

MS ROGERS: Is there any specific work – I see we have a decrease of $216,000 there at 3.1.04, number 10 the Grants and Subsidies to The Rooms.

MR. DALLEY: It is something that will be absorbed through operations; but, having said that, as Judith referenced, there are a lot of exiting projects that are going on and planned and will continue. It will not be impeded by this at all.

MS ROGERS: This is just simply one of those we have to cut?

MR. DALLEY: It is one of those – again, my opening comments. We have tried to do, where we can, to minimize the impact and not have, as a result of budget exercise, a few take the brunt for everybody. We have tried to share it out, recognizing our mandate and some things we want to accomplish this year, but share in that fiscal management piece. We felt we were able to do this, but at the same time continue on with the very exciting plans at The Rooms.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

Line 3.1.06 Historic Sites Development; the Newfoundland Film Development Corporation and people are doing great work and film is – but the Historic Sites Development, 3.1.06. Just a quick question, what is on the horizon there? Are there any particular plans?

I see it is for the acquisition of land and the redevelopment of the Province's historic sites. Is there anything particular in the works there?

MR. DALLEY: Again, we are continuously looking at upgrading and reinvesting, where we can, in our Provincial Historic Sites. Back to the other issues of maintenance, restoration, sustainability, and so on, while a lot of our non-profit groups are faced with that, we as a government are faced with that as well with our own sites. We have channelled – again, with the marketing piece and some of the programming, we have focused on that and we want to continue to build on that so that we get our numbers up in the visitations and, obviously, continue to promote that important part of our Province.

MS ROGERS: So no particular planned items under that?

MR. DALLEY: No.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Subhead 3.1.07, Special Celebrations and Events. I know you have mentioned the World War I anniversary coming up. Is there anything else to look forward to?

MR. DALLEY: I think we do; I think it is going to be very exciting for the Province –

MS ROGERS: When will that be?

MR. DALLEY: I am not sure exciting would be the right word because it is more of a commemoration and a tribute or respect to our involvement and history in the wars. We have a fabulous history. We are coming upon the 100 anniversary of Beaumont Hamel, a period of time in our history where Newfoundlanders, to coin the phrase, answered the call, and we believe there is a great story that needs to be told and retold and celebrated in some respects.

So we are looking at a major piece within government and, as I said, we will unfold the details in a post-Budget announcement, but there is great work, there are great people involved and it something we are looking at Province-wide.

MS ROGERS: That is sort of the main event, special event that the Province is focusing on now. Is there anything coming that we have –

MR. DALLEY: That is the specific focus from a provincial focus from our department for sure.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great. Thank you.

Dwight, I do not know if you have anything, I have a few questions on Recreation and Sport.

MR. BALL: You can continue if you have a couple more questions left before (inaudible).

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, 3.1.08. For Total: Culture and Heritage the decrease is $427,000, is that just an overall cut, basically, where you have to find the savings.

MR. DALLEY: That is on the bottom line item? Yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you very much for all of this.

Recreation and Sport, 4.1.01.01, Salaries, we see an increase of $109,000 in the revised.

MR. DALLEY: The increase reflects the retirement of an employee and the payout of severance. There are other things built in there in terms of annual leave, overtime, and these kinds of things. It is not any specific impact in hiring or anything like that.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

In 4.1.02, Community Sports Facilities, Grants and Subsidies, can we have a list of that?

Dwight, did you already ask for that? Okay, thank you very much.

MR. DALLEY: That particular item involved rink funding. It was a three-year federal funding. Last year was the last year for that rink funding; hence, the change in the figures in terms of our grants and subsidies.

MS ROGERS: The plastic rink in Appleton – is that a provincial rink or is that municipal?

MR. DALLEY: Municipal.

MS ROGERS: I play hockey. I have to try it out. I cannot wait.

How much is being allocated for recreation grants for promoting healthy lifestyles? I know there was a new initiative partnering with one or two schools.

MR. DALLEY: Twenty-five schools, an afterschool initiative.

MS ROGERS: That is great.

MR. DALLEY: Again, trying to address those challenges and part of the focus we have in trying to engage more youth in physical activity. So far there has been positive feedback.

There is $800,000 in that particular program and it is over two years.

MS ROGERS: So was it $400,000 last year and $400,000 this year?

MR. DALLEY: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Have we had a full year?

MR. DALLEY: No.

MS ROGERS: It has really just started, then.

MR. DALLEY: This is the first year and it rolled out just after Christmas.

MS ROGERS: How is it going?

MR. DALLEY: The early feedback has been very positive. There are a couple of challenges we have heard from schools. As you know, I have been involved in the rural schools and in transportation, these kinds of issues, to provide kids the opportunity to have access. This funding has enabled our students to have that opportunity. So far the feedback has been really positive.

MS ROGERS: Do we have any particular healthy lifestyle and recreation programs for seniors? There is a Seniors' Secretariat, but is the department doing anything specifically to look at the recreational needs of seniors?

MR. DALLEY: We have a Seniors Community Recreation Grant application process in which we will make some funding. We have some funding available and it is by application process.

MS ROGERS: Right.

MR. DALLEY: There are significant programs in Health and Community Services as well in terms of health and wellness of seniors. We do have specifically funding to help and support seniors' community recreation activities.

MS ROGERS: What is the budget for that?

MR. DALLEY: It is $200,000.

MS ROGERS: Okay, $200,000.

The 2012 Newfoundland Summer Games, now there was an investment of $200,000. Was that given last year or is that coming this year, or is it both? There was $200,000 for operating costs and $150,000 for travel costs.

MR. DALLEY: Yes, see the games, there is a preparation piece. That is the total that we will put in support of the games.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: The $150,000 would be to support coaches, teams travelling and that aspect of it to ensure that people can actually get to the games. The $200,000 will go directly to the host committees in terms of preparations and their work.

MS ROGERS: That is money that is coming only this fiscal year, is it?

MR. DALLEY: They have it from the last fiscal year.

MS ROGERS: They have it. Is there any money planned for them for this year?

MR. DALLEY: For the games?

MS ROGERS: Yes, for the Newfoundland Summer Games.

MR. DALLEY: No, the money would have been given to them up front in plans and preparations. Other than that, whether they come forward looking for any of their regular capital grants and these kinds of things, they would have that opportunity.

MS ROGERS: There is no more money for it in this fiscal year?

MR. DALLEY: No.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Marble Mountain – are there any plans to somehow extend the tourist season at Marble Mountain? I know we cannot expand the snow, but we have a great big, gorgeous facility there. Is there anything planned?

MR. DALLEY: Marble Mountain operates as a Crown corporation and is somewhat arm's-length as well and we help fund, obviously. They have operated for 100 days this year, more than they have done for a while, probably since 2008. That is their key focus on their winter tourism.

There has been some new leadership over there; they have refocused to try to expand the work that they are doing. I understand that their summer activity is becoming very busy; they have something like twenty weddings booked for this summer. There is a business in there as well Marble Zip Tours, which is operating right on-site. They are having great success and growing. They have really tried to expand their offering outside of their core winter tourism product. It is a part of trying to become a multi-seasonal facility. They are finding more and more summer activities increasing.

MS ROGERS: Thank you.

There were a number of announcements in the spring and summer in the lead up to the election about playgrounds and that there were going to be a number of playgrounds completed. Do you have any update as to –

MR. DALLEY: We do not specifically have funding for playgrounds or earmarked for playgrounds. We have through our capital programs, whether it is the minor capital grants or the major capital grants which people can apply for from their districts. Again, it is application driven. That funding can be used where we would support the development of playgrounds and see it as important, but we do not have specific playground funding.

A lot of the announcements that you may have been hearing is a part of what they call Let Them Be Kids, national program.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: It is a national program that is providing funding, matching funding through an application process. Successful communities are able to raise money and Let Them Be Kids will match the funding.

MS ROGERS: There is a provincial part of that then, is there?

MR. DALLEY: No. Let Them Be Kids is totally separate of anything that we do.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MR. DALLEY: What I have found is that when these communities are successful with their applications with Let Them Be Kids, which is a national program, they are coming to us looking for their capital grants because they can use that money then to get matching money from Let Them Be Kids. Generally we are finding – where we can, of course, especially where we have an opportunity for matching funding, that we will certainly support them.

MS ROGERS: Has there been much leverage on that program?

MR. DALLEY: All of our funding for our capital programs, our grants, everything goes out the door, no question.

MS ROGERS: Great.

Can we have a list of the successful applicants of the projects?

MR. DALLEY: We can do that, sure.

MS ROGERS: That would be great.

Has the department made a multi-year commitment to fund recreation facilities? Are there any recreation facilities on the horizon anywhere?

MR. DALLEY: We do not fund recreation facilities in terms of operations. We have the Sports Centre, which we own and which we are responsible for.

MS ROGERS: There is one of those, right?

MR. DALLEY: Yes, it is the provincial Sports Centre here in St. John's. Your typical recreational facilities, like stadiums and so on, we do not provide funding to those operations at all.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

With the population growth in the Northeast Avalon, we see a lot of young families and seniors looking in that whole area of the Northeast Avalon. Has there been any work looking at what are the recreational needs of people in those areas? What is happening? We are seeing a real push in population there and everybody –

MR. DALLEY: Absolutely. What I will say, the issue of recreational infrastructure is a municipal issue.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: It falls within the municipalities through municipal capital funding. The RInC funding that I referenced earlier was through your federal funding from Building Canada, in which the Province would have a share of that as well. That was channelled through municipalities coming forward to Municipal Affairs with their Municipal Capital Works programs.

MS ROGERS: What kind of role then would the Province have in looking at the recreation or lifestyle needs through, particularly in your department because it is recreation and sport? What would your mandate be then?

MR. DALLEY: Through active, healthy living, our strategy, and helping encourage more sport and recreation participation involvement. We work both with our federal counterparts on different agreements. I know we work with our provincial sport organizations. There are forty provincial sport organizations. We help fund some of them – all of them actually, some funding.

They are the governing bodies that would promote their sport and develop their sport. We will support them through – we have three, basically, organizations: School Sports Newfoundland and Labrador, Sport Newfoundland and Labrador, and Recreation Newfoundland and Labrador.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: These are the overarching bodies that govern their sports. Within that there are provincial sport organizations. We will channel money through them and they will do the promotion and support; added to that, of course, built into all of our grants and subsidies which we get out the door to support communities. Then there are always some special events sometimes, where if there is a way for us to get involved and support we do.

One of the big things that happened last year was this development of Sportfest. That is happening next week. It is driven by Sport Newfoundland and Labrador. It is bringing all the provincial sport organizations together, as many as can participate, and help promote their sport at the grassroots level and get kids involved, get them engaged, encourage parents to work with them as well.

They had tremendous success last year. It is coming up next week. We have also had discussions with them about how we take that across the Province. We do have a population explosion in this area, and you are right in terms of the recreational needs.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MR. DALLEY: We still know there are recreational needs right across the Province. We are looking at Sportfest and looking forward to working with them to see how we can take it further across the Province.

MS ROGERS: When we see that population shift – and there is some great private enterprise, recreational complexes, and gyms opening up, but it proves to be a real challenge in terms of affordability for people.

I believe I may be done. I am interested in the area of festivals and come home years, and if the Province is looking specifically at fostering or supporting those kinds of events?

MR. DALLEY: We do what we can through cultural events funding. It is driven by application. We support where we can, recognizing a number of factors – primarily what budgets they are using – to help drive in terms of what we are able to do. We realize small amounts mean a lot, but we have so many events and festivals happening in the Province. It is application driven.

We are delighted when these take place. It is an important part of our tourism product. It has done wonders for our economy, particularly in rural areas as well. There is an application and we will support them in any way we can.

MS ROGERS: I believe I might be done. I do want to say once again, thank you for today and for your fantastic work.

I do have a concern about us being in a time of prosperity and to see cuts in the arts. I have grave concern about that, and particularly what it means to us as a people and how they are underpinning as well so much of our heritage, our culture, for the tourism industry as well.

MR. DALLEY: I appreciate those comments.

A closing comment on the cuts; we understand nobody wants cuts. It is not something we wanted to do either as a government, obviously. There is a fiscal reality that we live in.

In this particular case, the arts are sharing in some of the fiscal management. We have done our very best, in conversations with the Newfoundland and Labrador Arts Council in particular, to minimize the impact on our artists. The number of grants should stay the same. As I said, the commitment we would have and a mandate through our department is if there is any way we can support the arts we will, and will continue to do so.

MS ROGERS: There has been so much wonderful research done showing that where there is a thriving, active arts and culture community that it is a stimulus to economic growth –

MR. DALLEY: Absolutely.

MS ROGERS: - and can actually help us through the tough times, and the times of prosperity.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms Rogers.

Mr. Ball, I think you have some remaining questions.

MR. BALL: I will just finish up.

Gerry brought it up about the outfitters. I know it is really not directly related to your department, Derrick, but one of the things I have heard and I think you will hear more about, and it will probably come out in the environmental assessment, will be the impact that the transmission line will have on the Northern Peninsula when it comes to outfitters.

This line will virtually go through some of the prime outfitting area and the impact it will have on the experience as you fly into some of those camps and have to pass through a 200-foot transmission line. I think it is something that when you work with the association, it is something you are going to be hearing a little bit about and how it affects the overall experience. I will just leave you with that. I know there is not a lot we can do about that today, but to make you aware of it, that it is something you are going to hear a fair bit more about.

I am glad you brought up Tales, Trails and Tunes because we know we are two weeks away from that. Well, it is probably even less than two weeks away from that now. It is a fantastic event.

I will close by saying thanks for the great work you have done and how responsive you have been. I know the conditions that you work under today.

Thank you very much to you and your staff.

MR. DALLEY: Thank you very much.

I appreciate the questions.

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Ball, Ms Rogers.

Before I thank the minister and the committee, I am going to ask the Clerk to read the Budget headings so we can adopt them.

CLERK: Heading 1.1.01 to 4.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Inclusive; you have heard the headings.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

Motion carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 4.1.02 carried.

CLERK: The total.

CHAIR: Oh, and the total, go ahead.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, ‘nay'.

Total carried.

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, total heads carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation carried.

CHAIR: Mr. Minister and your staff, I want to thank you for coming and giving so much good information and discussion back and forth, and clarification. I want to thank the Committee for their diligence and their good questions. Again, I look forward to further debate in the House.

Thank you; we are adjourned.

CLERK: A motion to adjourn.

CHAIR: Can I have a motion to adjourn?

MR. CROSS: Yes.

CHAIR: The Member for Bonavista North.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Carried.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.