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April 24, 2018                                                                                        RESOURCE COMMITTEE

 

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Barry Petten, MHA for Conception Bay South, substitutes for Tracey Perry, MHA for Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.

 

The Committee met at 6:03 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

 

CHAIR (Warr): Okay, if we can get ourselves comfortable, we will begin.

 

Good evening everybody. Welcome to the Estimates of the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour.

 

Just a note that Mr. Petten is substituting for Ms. Perry tonight and the first thing I'll ask is the Committee to introduce themselves, starting with Mr. Petten.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

Barry Petten, MHA for Conception Bay South.

 

MR. SHEPPARD: James Sheppard, Researcher, Official Opposition.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Lorraine Michael, MHA, St. John's East - Quidi Vidi.

 

MR. MORGAN: Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP caucus.

 

MR. FINN: John Finn, MHA, Stephenville - Port au Port.

 

MR. BRAGG: Derrick Bragg, MHA, Fogo Island - Cape Freels.

 

MR. DEAN: Jerry Dean, MHA, Exploits.

 

CHAIR: My name is Brian Warr; I'm the MHA for Baie Verte - Green Bay and your Chair for this evening.

 

Minister, we will offer you some opening remarks. I'd like for your staff to introduce themselves as well.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

To make sure the mics are working – Al Hawkins, Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour – I'll let my staff introduce to make sure we're all online.

 

MS. DOOLING: Good evening. I'm Genevieve Dooling, Deputy Minister.

 

MR. HANLON: Brendan Hanlon, Departmental Controller.

 

MS. DUNPHY: Debbie Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister of Corporate Services and Policy.

 

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS: Hi, I'm Candice Ennis-Williams; I'm ADM, Post-Secondary Education.

 

MS. LANGOR: Hi, Fiona Langor, Assistant Deputy Minister, Workforce Development, Labour and Immigration.

 

MR. MAVIN: Walt Mavin, Director of Employment and Training Programs.

 

MS. O'BRIEN: Donna O'Brien, Assistant Deputy Minister for Regional Services.

 

MS. PITCHER: Margot Pitcher, Executive Assistant to Minister Hawkins.

 

MS. HOWARD: Jacquelyn Howard, Director of Communications.

 

MR. BRANTON: Glenn Branton, CEO, Labour Relations Board.

 

CHAIR: Thank you.

 

Just before we get started, I'd just remind the staff of the department if you're asked to speak just say your name and wait for your tally light to light up. It's most helpful for the Broadcast Centre, so we'd appreciate that.

 

Minister, if you'd like to start off with a few remarks?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

I certainly thank you –

 

CHAIR: I'm sorry.

 

CLERK (Hammond): (Inaudible.)

 

CHAIR: Okay. Thank you.

 

CLERK: (Inaudible) procedure.

 

CHAIR: I'll ask the Clerk to call the first subhead.

 

CLERK: 1.1.01.

 

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 carry?

 

Mr. Minister.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

I certainly thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Estimates, the budget relating to Advanced Education, Skills and Labour. I want to say thank you to my colleagues, the interest that they have and look forward to some questioning with regard to what we have budgeted within the department.

 

I'll just make a few comments before we get into the questioning piece. It's a pleasure for me to represent a department such as Advanced Education, Skills and Labour. I took over as minister at the end of July 31, the 1st of August. It's certainly been a rewarding eight months since that change. I know the first few months trying to embrace all the changes and trying to embrace all of the different functions and programs within Advanced Education, Skills and Labour was a challenge but, hopefully, I'm getting there.

 

Whether through skills training, student financial assistance, immigration, labour relations, or various socio-economic supports, the objective of the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour is one and that's to help the people. We are guided by the philosophy that we should do everything possible to meet our commitments in The Way Forward to enable people to live independent and fulfilling lives. We want to ensure that only the best of services and programs are offered to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to help them achieve employment and independence.

 

Over the past year, the department has marked significant milestones in immigration, skills training, apprenticeship and labour legislation. I'm going to highlight some of these, and I know probably some of them will come up in the questions. But just in case we don't get a chance to discuss that, I wanted to highlight some of these initiatives that we had.

 

Twenty-five of the 39 initiatives, Mr. Chair, of The Way Forward on Immigration in Newfoundland and Labrador, our five-year Immigration Action Plan, were initiated or implemented by the end of the 2017-18 fiscal year. This includes measures such as convening the Minister's Roundtable on Immigration with the first round table held in February, expanding newcomer settlement services throughout the province and supporting the foreign qualification recognition. In partnership with the federal government we expanded the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization Project to include six additional trades and we will continue to work on increasing that as well.

 

We also completed preparations to introduce an online training option in 2018-2019 for five of the trades, enabling apprentices to continue working while completing the training they require for journeyperson certification. We think this is a very important move because we've heard complaints in the past that some of the apprentices would have to conclude their employment in order to get their training. Now, we're going to be providing that opportunity so they can do online training and still continue their employment.

 

We passed amendments to the Labour Standards Act that align with changes to the Canada Labour Code to enable working parents to access the new federal parental leave benefits introduced, job-protected leave of up to 17 weeks to provide care for critically-ill adult family members and to expand the eligibility for critically-ill child care leave to include immediate and extended family members. The amendments also enable nurse practitioners to provide medical certificates to verify entitlement for new and existing leaves under the Labour Standards Act which should make it easier rather than having the physician make that determination.

 

I'd like to take a few moments to share some of the highlights from Budget 2018 and then turn it over to the Committee to ask the questions. In the budget this year our government has allocated a total of $366 million for Memorial University, which includes $55 million for the faculty of medicine in recognition of its critical role in the province's society, culture and economy. That's significant, Mr. Chair. That's more than New Brunswick provides for its four universities and almost as much as Nova Scotia provides for all 10 of its universities.

 

Put another way, this provincial funding represents approximately 80 per cent of Memorial University's general operating revenues compared to the Canadian average of 49 per cent. It works out to be a public investment of over $22,000 per full-time student. This funding helps Memorial University deliver high-quality programming more affordably than anywhere else in Atlantic Canada and well below the national average. Canadian and international students can currently complete an undergraduate engineering degree at Memorial University for about three times less cost than the average elsewhere in Canada. There is $87.6 million, this year's budget, in operating funding provided for the College of the North Atlantic and its 17 campuses.

 

As you can see, our commitment to accessible, affordable, post-secondary education remains strong. Budget 2018 allocates $73.1 million to enable current tuition levels to be maintained for Newfoundland and Labrador students. This includes an increase of $4 million for Memorial University and $1.1 million for the College of the North Atlantic in 2018.

 

This year we also announced an independent review of the public post-secondary education system, which will explore how our post-secondary education system compares to other jurisdictions, and recommend options to achieve better outcomes in a more cost-efficient manner. That really piggybacks on the Premier's Task Force for the K to 12, so we felt it was very timely to look at post-secondary institutions.

 

The provincial government continues to invest significantly in infrastructure at our public post-secondary institutions and through our strong partnership with federal government as well. Budget 2018 allocates $55.6 million to the province's public post-secondary institutions for infrastructure projects. They include: $25.1 million provided for the Memorial University's Core Science Facility, $13.6 million allocated for the construction of the Centre of Excellence for Heavy Equipment and Industrial Trades at College of the North Atlantic and $10.8 million to support the construction of Memorial's Animal Resource Centre.

 

Budget 2018 provides funding for programs and services to maintain the province's skilled workforce and prepare Newfoundlanders and Labradorians for emerging and future labour demands. As a continuation of our government's commitment on The Way Forward to expand agriculture, aquaculture, oil and gas and technology sectors, we are supporting career development opportunities for youth by allocating $196,000 for a new Student Mentorship Program.

 

Budget 2018 also includes an investment of $13.1 million to delivering employment and training programs; $6.1 million for youth-focused employment and career related activities; $1.3 million to build capacity and provide online training in the apprenticeship system; $641,000 in federal government funding this year to establish the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization office in this province – a first for Newfoundland and Labrador and we're proud of that – and $230,000 cost shared among the four Atlantic provinces for the establishment of an Atlantic Workforce Partnership Secretariat in this province, another first for the province.

 

Our government will invest $2.4 million, in addition to the $1 million in federal funding, to support the continued implementation of The Way Forward on Immigration in Newfoundland and Labrador with a goal to increase immigration by 50 per cent to 1,700 newcomers annually by 2022. It's important to point out the provincial government continues to work with our federal colleagues to access federal funding where possible to support programs and services for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

 

We've had great success in identifying opportunities to leverage federal funding. The examples of this include the establishment of the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization office in this province and the Post-Secondary Institutions Strategic Investment Fund which has given us significant federal funding.

 

We have recently finalized a new generation of labour market transfer agreements with the federal government which will provide almost $900 million to support employment and training programs over six years. This represents an increase over previous agreements of over $80 million over a six-year period for this province. Using federal funding strategically, and ensuring available funds are fully utilized, helps reduce pressure on the Provincial Treasury. These are just some of the highlights of this year's budget. Of course, it will be interesting now as we delve into some of the line items.

 

Mr. Chair, I will attempt to answer the questions to the best of my ability. If I can't, I certainly have more than adequate staff that are capable of answering the questions.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

 

Mr. Petten.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

1.1.01. Minister's Office; what positions are included under the Salaries?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I didn't hear the question, Mr. Chair.

 

MR. PETTEN: In 1.1.01 what positions are included in the Salaries line?

 

MR. HAWKINS: That would be the minister, the executive assistant and, certainly, the departmental secretary would be included. You're looking at three staff.

 

MR. PETTEN: Yeah, sure.

 

Travel and Communications; what was this used for?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Travel and Communications? As you noticed, of course, we had budgeted $59,000 in 2017-18 and down to $55,900. Part of that was, as I said before, we have put in zero-based budgeting; we have looked at opportunities where we can save as much as possible. There were lower district travel requirements for me during '18-'19 from Grand Falls-Windsor to St. John's versus having to travel to Corner Brook. With the new minister coming in, there were some slight changes with regard to that amount.

 

MR. PETTEN: 1.2.01, Executive Support.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 1.2.01.

 

MR. PETTEN: The revised amount was $59,300 less than what was budgeted. It was back up to the ….

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, that's the salary piece. Between budget 2017-18 and the revised we had a change within the department; there was an ADM who left our department and became a deputy minister in another department. The salary adjustment on that would have been what you see in the difference there in the $50,000.

 

MR. PETTEN: 1.2.02, what about the number of positions in that Salaries line in this compared to last year, in the previous year?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I can tell you that we do have – I think it is 56 positions that we have currently in that section there. You will also notice there was a decrease. We've changed the medical transportation staff; we're transferring them to the Department of Health and Community Services.

 

You'll see further on in our Estimates we'll pick up the other 15, but in this particular decreasing and budgeting there, it relates to two positions that we have transferred. You'll see the other 15 positions with a reduction in salary later in our Estimates.

 

MR. PETTEN: The reduction in the Transportation and Communications, is that a result of those staff moving as well?

 

MR. HAWKINS: There is no reduction. What we're doing is we're taking 17 positions that were doing the transportation in AESL and we're transferring 17 positions to Health and Community Services because we feel there are better efficiencies in that. We don't have the duplication and they can better control exactly how the transportation – sometimes there have been complaints; one department handling this type of transportation and Health and Community Services handling another type of transportation.

 

Now, at least it's streamlined and we don't have that duplication piece. We've actually taken the amount of money, plus the 17 positions, and transferred to Health and Community Services.

 

MR. PETTEN: My reference was to the Transportation and Communications line.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Oh, I'm sorry.

 

MR. PETTEN: It's $46,000 this year down from $74,000.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We've had a slight reduction there. Basically we've cut some travel down for audits and we're going to be doing one audit per year. Don't get alarmed at that in saying that audits are not going to be done; we still have a fair number with federal funding. There's federal programming involved so they do external audits anyway. It was a cost-saving in that we were able to reduce and just do the one versus what was there previously.

 

MR. PETTEN: The Revenue line there, could you explain what that is? What's included in that revenue?

 

MR. HAWKINS: It went from $200,000 to $700,000. There's a $510,000 differential. That's an increase due to funding that was returned from a previous year for community partnership groups. We just picked up that funding when they transferred through. That's the $510,000 that's there.

 

MR. PETTEN: When you say community partnership groups, what groups would you be referring to?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Do we have a specific one? We have the spinal cord?

 

I can give you a breakdown on that one. The provincial revenue includes: reimbursement from the Nunatsiavut Government for AB delivery of $66K; unspent 2016-17 grant funding from organizations such as Visions of $16K; (inaudible) and place $22K; Murphy Centre $34K; Marine Resource $34K; MUN $75K; Spinal Cord Injury Association $35K, and there are some other smaller ones.

 

MR. PETTEN: That was funding they never used? Is that correct?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Correct. That was not used so it was returned to us.

 

MR. PETTEN: Is there any way we can get that list?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Absolutely.

 

MR. PETTEN: 1.2.03, Program Development And Planning. There was an increase in Salaries by $200,000-plus. What were the increase in positions here? Because I notice it's dropped down again this year.

 

MR. HAWKINS: That's through the attrition, the retirement continuance costs of personnel moving out. That was part of the attrition retirement piece we have to pay out in severance and that sort of thing. So it is extra costs involved.

 

MR. PETTEN: How many positions were involved there?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Positions that we had there – we have 16 there now. I'm not so sure.

 

OFFICIAL: There are three.

 

MR. HAWKINS: There are three positions.

 

OFFICIAL: Three positions that were tied up with severance.

 

MR. HAWKINS: There were three positions with the severance.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

An attrition plan; speaking of attrition, what are your numbers this year in attrition from last year to this year?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Specifically, in what area?

 

MR. PETTEN: I guess within the department.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Well, the department is fairly large as you know and we've had positions over a number of years that we've looked at through attrition. For 2018-2019, through our attrition we're looking probably at around 13 positions. That's throughout the entire department.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

Grants and Subsidies, what groups or organizations receive these?

 

MR. HAWKINS: That would be grants – Newfoundland and Labrador Association for Community Living would be one; the habit community English as a second language thrust, would be another one; Rotary Club of Exploits. That would be three of them.

 

This is a very small grant and subsidy area, and maybe because of where ministers changed partway through the year there was not a big uptake on that. Again, it's a very, very small grant. So that would have been the three that got it in the last year.

 

MR. PETTEN: A lot of these groups didn't apply last year? Is that what happened –?

 

MR. HAWKINS: No, actually – it depends on if there's a special project that's out there, a small project that someone may want to avail of for a particular service, then they would certainly have the ability to apply under that small grant.

 

MR. PETTEN: 2.1.01; under the Salaries line there was an increase in the revised but now it's back down by $1.7 million this year.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah. Right there, that's where we capture the 15 positions that we have transferred out to Health and Community Services. You will find that adjustment there within the salary piece. So that captures those 15 positions.

 

MR. PETTEN: When you say for community services, where exactly are –

 

MR. HAWKINS: Health and Community Services.

 

MR. PETTEN: Health and Community Services, sorry. I'm partially deaf, too.

 

Will there be any impacts as a result of this, Minister?

 

MR. HAWKINS: No. The only impacts that we feel are going to be positive impacts because, as I said, it will probably eliminate some of the confusion that sometimes exist when clients are applying for medical transportation, and at least now it will be streamlined. It's under one department. So I think there would be significant improvement in the services that will be provided.

 

Again, like I said, it's no reduction in staff. It's just a matter of more – getting in line with almost like a one-stop shop when it comes to providing these services.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

3.1.01, under Salaries there's almost $100,000 more than last year. Are there extra positions, or what ….

 

MR. HAWKINS: That is attributed to an increase due to a senior policy development position we have there. It is responsible for after-hours services, emergencies, social services charge. It's charged to income support, but funding for this position was not moved from the policy division. So we're picking up the cost of the senior policy development position.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

Allowances and Assistance, a $3.6 million reduction.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Allowances and Assistance, 09, a decrease again. Another one of the moves that we've made. We've moved our shelter funding to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp. Again, we feel that it's probably the best place where that should be.

 

Anything having to do with emergency shelter, shelter funding and that sort of thing, it certainly would make more sense for that to be in the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp. so they can better manage. So what we have basically done is we've decreased our budget and we have transferred that funding to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp.

 

MR. PETTEN: Were there positions that went with this?

 

MR. HAWKINS: No positions went with that. Just the money.

 

MR. PETTEN: Just the money. There is no concern on the delivery of service, changing them from one department to another, but no –

 

MR. HAWKINS: No, we just feel that was the right thing to do. We feel it will improve efficiencies and improve the ability to be able to properly manage shelters of all types. Certainly, Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp. is already providing housing and it would make sense for that to be under their purview versus Advanced Education, Skills and Labour dealing with housing.

 

MR. PETTEN: This amount is the same now over in the Housing Corp.? The amount is still $3.6 million?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes, $3.6 million is what went to them to provide that shelter.

 

MR. PETTEN: What about the employees who administered this program in the department? Did they move to another department, or what happened to the employees?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Do you want to answer that one for me, please?

 

MS. DOOLING: The employees that managed this when it was with Advanced Education, Skills and Labour, this was just a small part of their job. We did a workload analysis prior to transferring the funding over to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. While no positions transferred over, the Housing Corporation had positions available that could handle this work once it was transferred.

 

The individuals in the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour stayed where they were. They continued to work on other components of the income support file, but the housing is transferred over now to the Housing Corporation and they have positions that will carry out the work.

 

We have an implementation and transition plan. We'll work with them through the transition to make sure there's a smooth transition of the emergency services over to the Housing Corporation.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thank you.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Petten.

 

Ms. Michael, nice to see you again this evening.

 

MS. MICHAEL: The second time today.

 

CHAIR: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: A long day.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Long for punishment.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes.

 

CHAIR: Ms. Michael, thank you.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

 

I would like to ask a question actually, exactly where you were just now in answering Mr. Petten. I know this emergency money – because sometimes my assistant has to, at midnight, be looking for emergency shelter. Marianne always knew exactly where to call and where to go. What happens with the transition for somebody like her who's doing her job?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The transition; again, like I said, I firmly believe there will be significant improvement for that because at least now we know where to contact. That information will be out, the marketing will be done and Newfoundland and Labrador Housing will provide that, making sure there are no gaps within that transfer.

 

That's a piece of work they will continue to do and we'll continue to monitor as well. The last thing we want is if there's an emergency situation, someone not knowing where they have to contact. That information will be out and will be distributed to our clients and to anyone that's been availing of these services.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

I would suggest I think constituency assistants really need to know.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you very much.

 

I totally agree with what you're doing. It's the same way with the other piece that you're putting over to NLHC as well. It makes all the sense in the world that's where the money should be – or no, the travel money under medical, that just makes all the sense in the world. I'm just thinking through Marianne's experience. I know the many times that she's had to avail of that for constituents.

 

I'd like to come back. I usually don't. It's only if something I want to ask hasn't been covered.

 

2.1.01, under Transportation and Communications there is a change there. The budget for last year was $832,000, the revision was $681,300 and now the Estimate for this year is $766,200, so just a brief explanation, Minister, of all of those variations.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Thanks. That's a good question.

 

A lot of last year we put an emphasis on looking at discretionary travel. Any areas that we found discretionary we tried to avoid. We did a fair amount of video conferencing as well, versus travelling and, of course, we did a lot of conference calls. Those were just some of the areas we cut.

 

One of the other points in that Transportation and Communications area was that we found the cost of postage was down. That's obvious because if you do more electronic communication, then you're going to reduce that. What we've basically done is we've adjusted slightly up but significantly less than budget of 2017-18.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you very much.

 

Under Purchased Services there's also a bit of variation here. It's not a lot but it was $367,800 budgeted, $321,600 revision and then still down $348,700 in this year's Estimate.

 

MR. HAWKINS: This, again, was interesting. Our copying costs came in less than what we had anticipated. There was a fair difference there, actually, in the copying. We've just made a slight adjustment going forward in 2018-2019 but, surprisingly, that was one of the areas that we had less cost. Some of the other was attributed to – our business insurance cost was a little bit lower than we anticipated.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Would the copying there be copying of information handouts for clients, that kind of thing?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Documents.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Documents, right.

 

Okay. Thank you very much.

 

I just want to check backwards and see was there anything else back there. No, I think that's okay – wait now, no, I'm going the wrong way.

 

It's not a big thing but 1.2.03.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 1.2.03. Okay.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Under Professional Services $33,800 was budgeted, the revision was $20,500 and now $19,800. First of all, what would those professional services be and why the change?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I think that one would relate to the income support Appeal Board. That would be per diems that would have been paid out to the Appeal Board. There's a reduction there for '17-'18 in the per diems paid out.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you very much.

 

I think we've taken care of 3.1.01. Under federal revenue which is 01 –

 

MR. HAWKINS: Which tab?

 

MS. MICHAEL: Oh, I'm sorry, 3.1.01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay, Income Assistance.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Under federal revenue I'm just curious, what was that $45,000 budgeted? Nothing seemed to happen with that.

 

MR. HAWKINS: That's the agreement we had with the Innu. Of course, all of the services now have been devolved to the Innu Nation.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right.

 

MR. HAWKINS: The federal funding will be going to them versus us having to supply the services and then charge out. That's completely devolved to the Innu Nation now.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you.

 

The provincial revenue is $5.5 million and this year keeping $5.5 million, but there was $500,000 unspent or actually revised in '17-'18.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We sort of try to determine what the collection rates are going to be. We had budgeted $5.5 million for collections. Actually, our collections were down and so there's a discrepancy of about $500,000 in our collections. We've again conservatively estimated our collections will run about $5.5 million. That was what happened there, some of our collections are down in that last year.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right, but doing the zero-based budgeting it looks like you should keep the $500,000.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you.

 

3.1.02, the National Child Benefit Reinvestment; I'm curious about the $60,000 difference.

 

MR. HAWKINS: It's interesting because you probably would think that income support would be increasing, but the number of families with children in receipt of income support continues to decrease. This year, we have 28 fewer than we had one year ago, which I guess maybe is positive. In addition, a number of families with children under the age 12 that are eligible for child care has decreased over an 11-year period from 6,013 in 2006 to 3,777 in 2017.

 

MS. MICHAEL: So is it more the numbers of children that's decreasing or the numbers of families?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Well, we all know what's happening in families.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes.

 

MR. HAWKINS: The number of children are obviously decreasing.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We see that in our schools. We see it in our College of the North Atlantic. We see it in our Memorial University and we see it in our private training institution. If we look at, historically, over the last three years, we're averaging roughly about 10 per cent reduction in enrollments. That's simply – I shouldn't say simply, but it's primarily because of the fact that we're having less and less graduates that are coming out of high school. So all of that adds to the fact that there are less and less services in this area required.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right.

 

Well, in the next section, 3.1.03, I'm suspecting that's one of the reasons there as well, fewer children –

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: – because under Allowance and Assistance in particular is what I'm looking at.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: It's gone down there, so I'm assuming –

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, the same.

 

MS. MICHAEL: – the numbers are going down.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Ms. Michael, in the past five years, we've gone from an average of 387 clients per month to an average of 148 clients.

 

MS. MICHAEL: That's a jump, holy cow.

 

MR. HAWKINS: In 2017-2018.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Michaels.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

CHAIR: Mr. Petten.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

3.2.01

 

MR. HAWKINS: 3.2.01, let's go back up, Income Assistance.

 

MR. PETTEN: The next page.

 

There's an increase in Salaries there of $185,000 from last year's budgeted amount, but then it's gone back down to a little over that again for this year. What's the fluctuation there?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I think I might have referenced that earlier, Mr. Petten. It's due to a senior policy development position that's there, if I'm on the right one you're on, 3.1.01.

 

MR. PETTEN: No, 3.2.01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 3.2.01, I'm sorry, my apologizes.

 

MR. PETTEN: I'll forgive you.

 

MR. HAWKINS: It's been a long day.

 

MR. PETTEN: I know.

 

MR. HAWKINS: I'm not getting any younger either.

 

Okay, so 3.2.01 and you're talking about the reduction there, that again is our management restructuring and I think it probably equates to four positions. That, again, is through some of the salary continuance costs related to the management restructuring.

 

MR. PETTEN: It went up by $185,000 and now it's dropped down.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes, because we would have had attrition costs with regard to the management restructuring. You either would have had severance or salary continuation or there are a couple of other areas.

 

MR. PETTEN: What were those positions? Do you have any idea what they were or what their titles were?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I don't have that list with me but if you want, we can provide that to you.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay, thanks.

 

Purchased Services, what is included in this in this division?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Purchased Services, that basically would be copying, copying machine, copier; printing services is basically what that would be. We had really lower than anticipated cost for that in last year and some of the work that we're doing also with social media now versus print material.

 

MR. PETTEN: Subhead 3.2.02, under Allowances and Assistance, can you advise what allowances and assistances are included in this line?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Allowances and Assistance?

 

MR. PETTEN: Yeah.

 

MR. HAWKINS: So the question is what's the differential there?

 

MR. PETTEN: Yeah, I guess, that's a two-part question: What's the differential, why the drop and what is included in those Allowances and Assistance?

 

MR. HAWKINS: So what we have in that is funding is provided for employment development services. Also, we have the ABE placement supports and, of course, a lot of that then becomes federal funding. I think it's probably up to may be 90 per cent federal funding matching for that. That would be included in the Allowances and Assistance.

 

MR. PETTEN: Why was there a drop in the revised amount?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The demand for the services wasn't there and we feel now, going forward in 2018-2019, to make sure that we capture any increase in demand, we felt it was prudent for us to include the same budget for 2018-19 as we had budgeted for 2017-2018 but, as I said, the intake in the revised in '17-'18 just wasn't there but, again, we don't know what will happen in 2018-2019.

 

MR. PETTEN: Under Grants and Subsidies, who receives these and what are they for?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Well, under the Grants and Subsidies, you would find that's where our Linkages program would be. You'd also find Newfoundland and Labrador works. JobsNL would be included in that. You'd also find the Employment Development Supports would be there and there is some funding as well that we have with the Poverty Reduction Strategy funding that we make available and that includes a community collaboration facilitator for the Western and Central regions, and we also do work with the transition to work program, which is a program that originally started in Corner Brook and Grand Falls-Windsor, and now I think this year we might have done Marystown and some other areas as well. So that's a transition to work program that would be covered under these Grants and Subsidies.

 

MR. PETTEN: Could we get a list of those recipients of those Grants and Subsidies? Yeah.

 

So what was the reason for the drop of $334,000?

 

MR. HAWKINS: What was the question?

 

MR. PETTEN: Grants and Subsidies, there was a reduction from last year.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Well, I think I mentioned that it was a lower than anticipated uptake in the funding for the employment transitions. The requests didn't come in for that. So what I've done now is budgeted as if we will be back to 2017-2018 budget levels, just to make sure we are covered, in case there is an increase in the intake.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

You don't have the numbers of people compared year over year?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I think we do, somewhere. I thought I saw it somewhere.

 

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible.)

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MR. PETTEN: 3.2.03, Professional Services, that's a big increase there.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay. That's a significant increase. It's an upgrade to the system. We're getting into a performance measurement strategy as we get into the new Labour Market Development Agreement. We're trying to bring our system online so we have a proper reporting system.

 

We have to be compliant with the federal government in providing information to access as we move into this new Labour Market Development Agreement. There would certainly be upgrades that we have to make to our system.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

Under Allowances and Assistance, what's included in this? I noticed that, too, was a $6.4-million increase as well.

 

MR. HAWKINS: In Allowances and Assistance? The significant amount of funding would be, obviously, in our Skills Development Program – that's where our JCP program comes in – our Self-Employment Assistance Program and apprenticeship supports. There's some money there for the work, health and safety commission as well but, primarily, that's our programming funding for these departments.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

Under the federal revenue line there's an increase over what's budgeted this year over last year of $7 million.

 

MR. HAWKINS: That's the new Labour Market Development Agreement.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

MR. HAWKINS: I think when I spoke earlier I said over the next six years it's roughly about another $80 million that will be going into Labour Market Development Agreement as well as our Workforce Development Agreement. This is where you would capture that increase in the federal funding that's coming in. We're seeing an increase in that funding.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

In 3.2.04, Purchased Services, a substantial increase of $600,000.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Again, that's tied to the Workforce Development Agreement. There are two agreements. There's the Labour Market Development Agreement and there's a new Workforce Development Agreement.

 

The same scenario; the performance measurement support system that is required in order for us to be able to share information with the federal government will be captured in there. We will be investing that money into the system in order for us to be compliant and be able to provide the information that the federal government needs so that we can actually share with the federal government, they can share information with us and we can share our information with them, as well. That's where that cost will be.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Petten and Minister.

 

Ms. Michael.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

 

Minister, if we could just come back 3.2.03.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 3.2.03, okay.

 

MS. MICHAEL: I think that's where I want to go. Yes, I think so. You may have answered this, I'm not sure, but if I missed it, I apologize. Under the Grants and Subsidies, what are those Grants and Subsidies related to and why the difference?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay.

 

I guess I'll start, first of all, with what the Grants and Subsidies are for. There's roughly about $4 million there that's attached to the Labour Market Partnerships; the Employment Assistance Services, EAS services, would come out of that; wage subsidies would also be there; our Job Creation program; and Self-Employment Assistance. There's a fair amount of programming into those grants and those subsidies.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right. Thank you.

 

They're all the EI-eligible programs, right?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you very much.

 

I meant to say this earlier on but can we assume that we are going to be able to have your binder?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Oh, absolutely.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes, right. So then there will be a lot of details in the binder that we don't need to get you to go through.

 

Going back to 3.2.02, Mr. Petten did ask for the number of recipients of the Grants and Subsidies. I'm assuming you would have the individual recipients, as well as agency lists, et cetera, for those programs.

 

MR. HAWKINS: I'm saying yes because we have a fair number of groups that will, obviously, avail of the Linkages program which is a very important program for us.

 

MS. MICHAEL: It is, yeah.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We would have all that information on what groups and organizations would be getting these Grants and Subsidies.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you very much.

 

I'm just going to make sure there is nothing else under 3.2.03 that I want to ask. No, I think they're all done.

 

Under 3.2.04 Mr. Petten asked about the Purchased Services. The Allowances and Assistance, I can't remember if Barry asked that or not.

 

MR. PETTEN: (Inaudible.)

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

The Allowances and Assistance, again, there's a variance last year between the budget and the revision, and a variance upward this year between the Estimate and last year's budget.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Ms. Michael, we did some re-profiling, as well, in that particular section. Again, the allowances for that transitions to work program, we re-profiled that to Grants and Subsidies. We made that sort of shift, so that's a re-profiling within the department.

 

MS. MICHAEL: With the next line?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The Allowances, we'll pick it up as well within the – Bren, what line did we go to on that one?

 

MR. HANLON: Grants and Subsidies.

 

MR. HAWKINS: It went to Grants and Subsidies.

 

MS. MICHAEL: So the next line underneath?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The next line.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes, okay.

 

There's not a complete correlation though, is there?

 

MR. HAWKINS: There might not be a complete total correlation but if that is a difference then we've added something else there.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

MR. HAWKINS: And we have.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yeah, because the revision last year was $874,700 and this year the estimate is only $5,175,600. I'm curious about the revised number last year that was quite a revision of $874,700.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah. Again, the additional funding is provided under the LMTA, the Labour Market Transfer Agreement. There was $779,000 additional funding that we got there which was attributed to that.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes.

 

MR. HAWKINS: The transition to work program funding re-profiled from Allowances – there was about $96,000 that was re-profiled.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

MR. HAWKINS: It's the additional funding provided under the Labour Market Transfer Agreement.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Why is it back down to $5,175,000 this year?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The additional Workforce Development Agreement funding for 2018-2019 – there's $570,000. I'm not sure if I'm getting at what you're looking for as the rationale.

 

There's offset by a decrease of $500,000 related to the fisheries support worker funding transferred to the Department of Fisheries and Land Resources. We transferred out to them $500,000. So when a fish plant closes, we – they were actually funding that.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right.

 

MR. HAWKINS: So what we did, we decided we would transfer $500,000 so they would be able to cover that from the Fisheries and Land Resources.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. That explains that discrepancy. Thank you.

 

You've already explained the federal revenue because it's gone up.

 

Okay, thank you.

 

3.2.05, it looks like this program is gone. Are all the workers being taken care of somewhere else?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes. What happened in this program, the target initiative for older workers is phased out and now will be included under the new workforce development, which will primarily be looking at persons with disabilities, target initiatives for older workers, job creation and indigenous people. So that becomes a separate Workforce Development Agreement, and that's now captured under that agreement with additional funding.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. So it's a separate agreement under that agreement.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Correct. What we now have is the Labour Market Development Agreement and the Workforce Development Agreement. So we have two separate agreements.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay, got it.

 

Thank you very much.

 

3.2.06, this is Employment Assistance Programs for Persons with Disabilities. This program continues, does it? It looks like it does.

 

MR. HAWKINS: If I'm understanding; this will be a cost-shared agreement.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right.

 

MR. HAWKINS: The funding is provided for training services, program support, employment, job trainers, PRS initiatives. That's a shared responsibility from the federal and provincial government. That is the Employment Assistance Programs for Persons with Disabilities.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. It looks like new money has been put into this program under the agreement, because under federal revenue –

 

MR. HAWKINS: No.

 

MS. MICHAEL: No? It went up by $478,400.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, okay. Let me just look at my notes there.

 

There is additional revenue provided under the Workforce Development. There's about $399,000 that came out of that. So we did put money in there from that agreement.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

MR. HAWKINS: There's about $400,000 into there.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

Then going back up to the Allowances and Assistance, I guess last year there just wasn't as big an uptake.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Right.

 

MS. MICHAEL: And this year you have increased, though, based on a real expectation, I assume.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Again, sometimes it's your best guess as to what might happen or might not happen when you go through the budgeting process. In this particular case, we did make provisions for a training services program and there was less demand than was anticipated.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Again, it all depends. For next year we've just gone back – or for this year coming, in 2018-2019, it's probably a realistic budget that we feel should cover it. We don't want to be shortchanged by anybody, obviously.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right. Thank you.

 

I only have 27 seconds, so.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Michael.

 

Mr. Petten.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

I want to go back to 3.2.04 for a quick question. Under Allowances and Assistance, I want to know how many people availed of this program this year compared to 2016. This past year, I should say.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We don't have that number. We can certainly provide you with the number of people that took advantage of that. I don't like using the word took advantage – the number of people who availed of that program. We can get that number.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thank you.

 

3.2.07, what types of allowances and assistance would be included here?

 

MR. HAWKINS: These are basically your Youth and Student Services. These would be your student summer employment jobs.

 

MR. PETTEN: Post-secondary and all summer students?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes, this is your summer student program.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

So last year this was reduced?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Correct.

 

MR. PETTEN: Now this year it's back up again?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes. I'll tell you how that worked out.

 

In 2018-2019, $240,000 of the $542,000 for the GRI reduction under the Youth and Student Services budget was applied to the Student Summer Employment Program. So that would have really calculated to about 150 fewer summer jobs.

 

What we've basically done this year is now we've put in what's called a Student Mentorship Program, which is going to give us an additional 100 jobs. That will be funded through the federal funding and will be in areas of aquaculture, agriculture, oil and gas and forestry. There are 50 new mentorship jobs for students that will be available.

 

And I'm not sure – when are the applications going out for that? Some time in April?

 

OFFICIAL: This week.

 

MR. HAWKINS: This week?

 

Applications will be going out for those specific industry sector-related summer jobs this week.

 

MR. PETTEN: On the Grants and Subsidies line, what's the reason for the fluctuations there?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Well sometimes, believe it or not, you put out a budget and there are varying reasons, sometimes the Student Summer Employment projects do not materialize. Obviously, if they don't materialize we don't put the funding at it for the employers.

 

There was an adjustment last summer. There were savings due to lower than anticipated uptake in the Student Summer Employment projects.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

4.1.01, what investments have been made to – under Salaries, there's a fluctuation of almost $200,000.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay. I think that probably includes about 13 positions. Again, part of some of the costing there – as you know, I mentioned in my preamble as well, we have a new office, the Atlantic Workforce Partnership project, and that is cost shared between all four Atlantic provinces on a 30-30-30-10 basis. Some of costs you see there is offsetting the two positions that are going to be under the Atlantic Workforce Partnership. So there's some cost sharing that's involved there. We have to budget it in.

 

MR. PETTEN: Grants and Subsidies, again there's a lot of fluctuation in those as well. It's a lot – that's $700,000 less?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes.

 

We put in Grants and Subsidies for 2017-2018 developing a website and the savings that you see is related to lower than anticipated cost for the development of the website, LMI forum, request for proposals and foreign qualification carry forward. So there was some money, there was about $150,000 there in '18-'19. So that's why you'll see a variation in the amount.

 

For 2018-19, it's roughly down about $705,000, for the foreign qualification recognition funding is now moved out of the Workforce Development and Productivity Secretariat and is now moved into the Office of Immigration, so you'll see that change. So it's out of there and into Office of Immigration.

 

MR. PETTEN: Federal revenue, that's dropped as well, $405,000, but it also went down $150,000 from the last year's budget to revised.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes, again, the $150,000 differential was the lower federal funding revenue due to savings that we found under the Foreign Qualifications program and the differential now going into revenue for 2018-2019 again is related to the moving of the funding from this section or department into the Immigration department.

 

MR. PETTEN: 4.1.02, the Salaries line, there's a drop from last year and there's an increase this year.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Bren could probably explain that, but, basically, we did some budget rightsizing in the salary. I think it was probably about $35,000 that we – there was some salary budget rightsizing in that.

 

The other piece we dealt with was there was salary savings as a result of two new positions that we're going to be adding to the – and I think they came on in August. Was it August they came on? So a part of the year and next year then we will take up the full complement because we feel with the number of applications coming in, we wanted to try to increase some efficiencies in that area. So we've added two new positions in the Budget 2017.

 

Bren, I don't know if you want to – that's okay.

 

MR. PETTEN: Grants and Subsidies, (inaudible) what these are and who received them? There's a fair increase there too.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Again, I can answer the questions for the savings piece there.

 

That was due to consolidation of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador websites into: a rare find, so there was some savings in that area. The increased cost for 2018-19 is a transfer of funding for the foreign qualification Workforce Development Secretariat. There's $180,000 in that transfer that came out of one that we just did into this one. There's a forecasted increase in funding for Immigration Action Plan, English as a Second Language that would be included in that and we also have some small amount of funding in there for Sharing Our Cultures annual event, and it's a small amount.

 

MR. PETTEN: Provincial revenue line there, what accounts for this amount? Where does this go?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The provincial funding there is a fee structure. There is revenue – every time you have a provincial nominee, we go through a Provincial Nominee Program, there's an application process. So there would be a cost that would be incurred for the filing of those application pieces. So there would be a small revenue stream – that's where that funding would come from for that.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Petten.

 

Ms. Michael?

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

Minister, I have a couple of non-line item questions but related to this section that we've just been dealing with, Immigration and Multiculturalism.

 

How many people came in under the various streams in the Provincial Nominee Program in 2017?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay, I think I have that.

 

In 2017, total newcomers to Newfoundland and Labrador were 1,172. That's inclusive of principal applicants under the Provincial Nominee Program and the Atlantic Immigration Pilot Program and their family members as well as refugees; 2017 saw a 25 per cent increase in principal applicants over 2016. So we're now finding the highest number of applicants ever supported provincially.

 

Right now, these numbers are encouraging and, again, we're looking at certainly trying to strive to reach the targets that we've set by 2022.

 

If I can just take a moment or two, the Atlantic Immigration Program which basically came in March of 2017, there's a bit of education that has to happen and we need some advocacy on that because, again, all these federally supported regulations for immigration, we have to engage employers. So in the Atlantic, we have to try to encourage more of our employers to get involved in the Atlantic pilot program.

 

Some of the other provinces are finding a greater success by using their temporary foreign workers and for some reason we, in Newfoundland and Labrador, are not targeting our temporary foreign workers. So that's going to be an exercise for us this year, going forward, to concentrate on that because under the Atlantic Immigration Program, we can move the applications through fairly quickly and more efficiently than under the Provincial Nominee Program, which by the time it gets from filing the application to the end, it's probably about 16 months, versus we can probably try to get them through now within four, five and six months, which cuts a tremendous amount of time and, certainly, it would be advantageous for us to sort of put a bit of a focus on the Atlantic pilot program.

 

MS. MICHAEL: How many came in under that program?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Under them separately?

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes, I'd like to (inaudible)

 

MR. HAWKINS: I don't know if I have my numbers exactly on that, I'm trying to remember now. The last time we had – there were somewhere like a 130-plus? I thought it was a 132 at one time under the Atlantic pilot.

 

MS. LANGOR: (Inaudible) 285 came in under the Atlantic Immigration Pilot.

 

MR. HAWKINS: (Inaudible) for the record.

 

MS. LANGOR: Sure.

 

In 2017, there were 285 that actually came in, principal applicants, under the Atlantic Immigration Pilot and 544 under the Provincial Nominee Program.

 

MS. MICHAEL: 544, okay.

 

MS. LANGOR: So that would just be (inaudible), in addition to that you would have your family members and refugees would be included in our total to bring us to 1,172.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

Minister, under the Provincial Nominee Program, will your binder have the breakdown of the number of skilled workers, international graduates and the express entry? If you do it –

 

MR. HAWKINS: No.

 

MS. MICHAEL: No.

 

MR. HAWKINS: No, my binder won't have that detail, Ms. Michael, but I'd be more than glad to provide that.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Again, because I think what we're seeing is encouraging and, I know one of the focuses that we're putting on is looking at our international graduate students. Hopefully we will eventually get the federal okay on us putting together our entrepreneur program.

 

That's something we're aggressively working toward but I'm optimistic. The numbers we're seeing are encouraging. We'll continue to do that and we certainly solicit support from Opposition Members as well as we work to get those numbers. We'll certainly be able to provide that for you.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you.

 

Do you have the numbers of those who became permanent residents in '17-'18?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, we should have that as well.

 

MS. LANGOR: There were 1,172 permanent residents in 2017.

 

MS. MICHAEL: New ones?

 

MS. LANGOR: Yes.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

What about retention statistics, Minister?

 

MR. HAWKINS: We are doing quite well, actually, with retention. Right now we're running at about 55-56 per cent for retention. It's encouraging. Our highest family class retention is running at about 76 per cent.

 

Newfoundland and Labrador, right now, has the second highest retention rate in Atlantic Canada; we're second to only Nova Scotia. As I said, in our family class, Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest retention rate at 76 per cent.

 

I can only think that's hopefully going to get better. I think we just, over the weekend, engaged Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador in partnership to put together a welcoming community tool kit which hopefully will be able to address some of the challenges that particularly – not necessarily the applicant because the applicant usually is the one that's working – family members that are attached, sometimes they find challenges within communities.

 

We have to try to make it easier for these additional family members to integrate within the communities. We're going to be aggressively working with Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador to ensure that we are providing every possible service that we can to make it easier for them to transition within the community, become a part of the community and contribute to the community.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Will English as a second language training be a part of that?

 

MR. HAWKINS: English as a second language training is very important for us. We've engaged in partnership with Memorial and we've made funding available to the Association for New Canadians as well. We're providing funding to make sure that we are focusing on English as a second language because, again, that becomes a real challenge.

 

Yeah, we are certainly making that funding available for partners.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you.

 

I'm going back to line items now; 4.1.03.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 03?

 

MS. MICHAEL: Labour Relations.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay.

 

MS. MICHAEL: I'm going to use my intelligence with regard to the Salaries line. I don't have a lot of questions here, actually, but under Supplies it was $6,400 last year budgeted and revised, and this year down to $3,800. What would that have covered, the Supplies in that line?

 

MR. HAWKINS: That's just basically supplies running the offices. As we've done with many departments or with many lines within our department, we've asked for a zero-based budgeting – for you to give us the accurate to, as much as possible, under the zero-based budgeting. That would certainly be an exercise there. They decided we can shave a couple thousand from our Supplies.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right. Thank you very much.

 

Those are all the questions I have for that section.

 

4.1.04, Standing Fish Price Setting Panel.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Right.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Again, I'm just curious about the drop there in Professional Services. Was that just rightsizing also or zero-based budgeting?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Again, that was another departmental zero-based review. What they did is they based it on the recent expenditures they had for the panel. They felt they could live within that reduction in the budget there.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Thank you.

 

I only have 30 seconds so I'll pass it back.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Michael.

 

Mr. Petten.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

A quick question – I don't know if Ms. Michael asked it or not. On 4.1.03, there's some fluctuation with the Salaries. Not a lot, but can you explain that?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I'm sorry, I didn't get that.

 

MR. PETTEN: Salaries.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MR. PETTEN: On 4.1.03 there's some fluctuation in Salaries.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Basically, that's budgetary rightsizing based on requirements that we feel for '18-'19. The original budget was higher than required for the full staff complement so what we've basically done is made that adjustment.

 

MR. PETTEN: You're saying rightsizing. There was more money there than what's required for the salary budget.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We just reduced the amount. Obviously there was $23,400 from the original budget and that was not required in '18-'19. So if it wasn't required in '17-'18, it's not going to be required in '18-'19.

 

MR. PETTEN: No staff changes either?

 

MR. HAWKINS: No.

 

MR. PETTEN: 4.1.05.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 4.1.05.

 

MR. PETTEN: A $70,000 reduction in Salaries.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Labour Standards?

 

MR. PETTEN: Yes.

 

MR. HAWKINS: What was the question?

 

MR. PETTEN: Salaries there is down by $70,000?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay.

 

In that year, between '17-'18 Budget and Revised, there was a partial year vacancy in a policy position in the department. You would see the savings there.

 

MR. PETTEN: But it's still down this year so is that position eliminated?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah and what we're targeting on that is we anticipate attrition of one Labour Standards officer. It's an attrition piece there.

 

MR. PETTEN: Attrition. One position is included in that?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MR. PETTEN: 4.1.06, the Labour Relations Board; how many employees are presently with the Labour Relations Board?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The Labour Relations Board; we would have a chairperson, secretary to the chairperson, chief executive officer, a deputy CEO, two Labour Relations Board officers and a full-time clerk typist III. That should be how many positions? One, two, three, four, five, six – we'll say six positions.

 

MR. PETTEN: Under Professional Services what's included?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Professional Services; I guess that would be professional fees that would be paid to board members in accordance with the Treasury Board policy for agencies, boards and commissions. Their per diems would be included in that.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

Purchased Services has dropped by $20,000 from last year to this year.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah. That is money that was provided for copiers, copying costs, miscellaneous repairs, printing, advertising and rent. So they've reduced that. I guess the biggest portion, Mr. Petten, is related to – the board has moved to a government-owned building, which is part of our efficiency when looking at leasing. That certainly would see some of the significant reduction in cost.

 

MR. PETTEN: Thanks.

 

5.1.01, Salaries; they're up from last year and been revised –

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah. That would certainly be the new Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization Project, which is 100 per cent federally funded. When I mentioned that in my preamble, this is where you would find that, within the Salaries.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

What about in Transportation and Communications, a fairly substantial increase there as well.

 

MR. HAWKINS: That would be – as I said, attached to that office the increase is primarily due to federally funding, staff travel and communications.

 

I think, if I remember correctly, it's probably about – in transitioning the office, there was probably about 12, 13 trips that had to be made to make that transition. Advisory committee meetings, there was an increase there. So the real cost of moving that office would be included in that Transportation and Communications; but, again, I just want to make sure that we fully understand that this is 100 per cent federally funded.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

Supplies, the increase in supplies.

 

MR. HAWKINS: The same; setting up the office, standard office supplies. That certainly would be – the cost would be incurred there.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

5.1.02, the Grants and Subsidies line, there's a decrease of $500,000.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Transportation and Communications?

 

MR. PETTEN: No, Grants and Subsidies.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Grants and Subsidies?

 

MR. PETTEN: Yeah.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes. Basically, less provincial funding required, and that's due to more of the ABE program was funded under the federal LMDA program for 2017-2018. We were able to leverage more federal funding and as a result of that we reduced the provincial contribution. We were able to offset that almost, I think $500,000, close to that. We're able to offset some of these costs. So it's federal dollars that enable us to do that.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

The revenue there; where's that coming from?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Revenue on the provincial piece there?

 

MR. PETTEN: Yeah, Revenue - Provincial.

 

MR. HAWKINS: That would relate to registrations of private colleges.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

5.2.01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 5.2.03.

 

MR. PETTEN: 01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We're going back?

 

MR. PETTEN: No.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Oh, 5.2 is it?

 

MR. PETTEN: Yeah.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Sorry, I'm just like – I need a break I think somewhere along the – do we have breaks in this thing here, Mr. Chair, or are you just slave drive, just put it on through?

 

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible.)

 

MR. HAWKINS: I tell you, the temperature in the room is about 500 degrees.

 

MR. PETTEN: It's warm, yeah.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Sorry, Mr. Petten, what was the question?

 

MR. PETTEN: I never asked you one yet.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Oh, I'm sorry. I was trying to get out of here.

 

MR. PETTEN: I was waiting for you to get to the section.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Is there a hockey game on tonight or anything?

 

MR. PETTEN: Tomorrow night is a big night.

 

Under the Operating Grant, there's a decrease in the operating grant this year over last. I guess that question there is going to be more like – I know what's happening there. The reduction in Operating Grants, do you anticipate that that will result in increasing fees for students? You can be sure the university will make up the difference somewhere.

 

MR. HAWKINS: No, these are basically fees that we pay for seats at the Atlantic Veterinarian College.

 

MR. PETTEN: No, no. No, you're on the wrong section.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Am I?

 

MR. PETTEN: I'm over at Memorial University now, 5.2.01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 5.2.01. Okay.

 

MR. PETTEN: Regular Operating Grant was cut by nearly $8.7 million. My question is, I guess, the university will have to find the difference, make up the difference. Will this not result in increased fees to students in coming years?

 

MR. HAWKINS: We don't determine where the fees are going to be; the Board of Regents would make that decision. We basically have been very, very clear as a government. We've increased the amount for the tuition freeze. We increased it by $4 million again this year to offset that.

 

Again, our message has been clear; we want to enable a tuition freeze. As I said, I can't speak on behalf of the Board of Regents, that's decisions they will have to make. I'm assuming their budget will probably be coming down some time in May.

 

As with all of our agencies, boards and commissions, we've been very clear of that, not only within our agencies, boards and commissions, but also within every department within government. We've all had to look for ways in which we can reduce, and we've been given targets. We've all worked through that and there are no real surprises. We've done our projections since 2016, and we're trying to work within the parameters we have. 

 

As I said before, we provide to Memorial an operating grant; 80 per cent of their operating grant is provided by the province. We provide more funding in operating than Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick, and really, almost as much as all 10 universities get in Nova Scotia.

 

So I can't answer that question, with what they will do with their budget. That is certainly an area they will have to look at, but we have been very clear in our message to them that we have put measures in place to continue to enable a tuition freeze.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

 

Thank you, Mr. Petten.

 

Ms. Michael.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

Minister, if we can go back to 5.1.02, Literacy and Institutional Services. I think you may have answered this for Mr. Petten, but I'm not sure of the source of the provincial revenue.

 

What is the source of that provincial revenue, the $138,300?

 

MR. HAWKINS: That's the private colleges. They have to –

 

MS. MICHAEL: That's what I thought.

 

MR. HAWKINS: – register with government, so that would be their fee.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yeah, I thought that's what it was. I just wanted to confirm that.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Just a couple of questions. How are things going with the Adult Literacy plan?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Well, thank you for the question.

 

It's going quite well. As you know, of course, we started the consultations. We have completed them. I think there's still opportunity to do online submissions, which we're getting some good response for online submissions. Then we will have significant discussions as we move forward with an Adult Literacy plan that we hopefully will have in place to have a report in – our target is 2019.

 

Of course, in that literacy plan there's a great opportunity for participation. We need suggestions, we need ideas and we need to know how we want to move the Adult Literacy plan forward. We all know there are some challenges, and part of that – as well, of course, we have an opportunity to talk about the ABE program, what individuals feel is working or may not be working.

 

So it's a wide range of opportunities to have some discussions. We will continue to have that over the next several months.

 

MS. MICHAEL: And when in 2019 would you hope to have the plan ready?

 

MR. HAWKINS: We're looking at the spring of 2019.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay, thank you.

 

ABE students, do you have the numbers – I'm sure you do, but do you have them at your fingertips, though, the numbers of students enrolled in private versus the public college?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay. Of course, there's no public now.

 

MS. MICHAEL: There's none at all now, is there?

 

MR. HAWKINS: They're all in private colleges.

 

MS. MICHAEL: They're all in private?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah. All the ABE would be in private.

 

And I don't – the numbers. Do I have that on a piece of paper there somewhere?

 

Okay. Ms. Michael, I'll leave it to Candice, she has the numbers readily available there.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS: The total number of students to date for last fiscal was 1,879 students.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. Do you have the graduates' numbers as well?

 

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS: I don't.

 

MS. MICHAEL: You don't, okay. Well, if you have them, maybe we could get them, please?

 

Besides those who are enrolled, then knowing exactly how many students graduated would be helpful information.

 

Thank you very much.

 

I have a few questions with regard to apprenticeship. I don't have any line questions. I'm just going to have some general questions around apprenticeship.

 

Where is the office located? Under 5.1.01, the Apprenticeship and Trades Certification. Where is the office located?

 

MR. HAWKINS: What number is it?

 

OFFICIAL: 5.1.01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 5.1.01.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yeah. What I'm asking is not on a line item.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay, all right. Okay.

 

The new apprenticeship?

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes, yeah.

 

MR. HAWKINS: That's located here in this building.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Oh, in this building.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay, great.

 

Thank you.

 

I just have a few questions now. I think the others have been answered.

 

Under Grants and Subsidies, in 5.1.01, what is included in the Grants and Subsidies there? Does that include the government hiring apprenticeship program for example?

 

MR. HAWKINS: The Grants and Subsidies are for, like the youth apprenticeship supports, distance delivery of apprenticeship, government hiring apprenticeship program for approximately 80 placements provided to health care boards, school boards, the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp., Department of Transportation and Works. So that would be the groups that would be included under that Grants and Subsidies.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right. Okay.

 

Thank you.

 

Minister, could we have an update on the Apprenticeship Wage Subsidy and the number of participants in 2017-18?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, we certainly can get that for you. Not a problem.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

Statistics, the numbers of apprentices doing journeyperson training, journeyperson certificates issued, and if we could have a gender breakdown of both of those?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Also, the number of women served by the Office to Advance Women Apprentices.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay. So we'll get all that information.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Absolutely.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you very much.

 

I think I have to go back, one more thing or maybe not.

 

This is just a question. It relates – it might help you if I give you the exact thing so you'll see what it's relating to. Relating to section 4.1.05.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 4.1.05.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Labour Standards.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes.

 

MS. MICHAEL: You mentioned there was a loss of one position through attrition and it was a labour standard officer. What would be the role of the person in that position?

 

4.1.05, you said there was a loss of one position and you said the title of the position was labour standard officer.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah. Well, that particular officer would be looking at enforcement compliancy within, whether the minimum wage, minimum Labour Standards Act, training. Anything having to do with the labour standards for employers, employees, that would certainly – I'm assuming that would cover –

 

MS. MICHAEL: Would that work be picked up by somebody who has the same title that that person had?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes.

 

MS. MICHAEL: It would.

 

Okay, thank you.

 

All right, now you can go forward again to 5.1.01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 5.1.01.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Oh, no, I'm sorry.

 

Barry, you were at 5.2.01 weren't you?

 

MR. PETTEN: Yes.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes.

 

5.2.02.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 5.2.02.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay.

 

MS. MICHAEL: We're almost there, Minister.

 

MR. HAWKINS: What's that? Almost there.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Almost there.

 

MR. HAWKINS: That's right.

 

MS. MICHAEL: This is the Physical Plant and Equipment for Memorial. I see that the Grants and Subsidies went up significantly.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes.

 

MS. MICHAEL: I can guess which construction that is, but could you tell us –

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes. That area, if you look at the first one: Loans, Advances and Investments –

 

MS. MICHAEL: Yes.

 

MR. HAWKINS: – that's a good news story. That actually we are ahead of schedule with the core science facility, so we had to put the loan forward to them. That's a good news story in that they're ahead of schedule.

 

The Grants and Subsidies; it's the province's contribution to Memorial for their capital projects, and that excludes any budget provision for the Faculty of Medicine.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Right.

 

MR. HAWKINS: So that's giving them working capital within their capital for their physical plant and equipment.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay, thank you.

 

Very quickly, the federal revenue has gone down slightly. How come?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes. Well, that would be again –

 

MS. MICHAEL: Well, it went up and then came down.

 

MR. HAWKINS: – with the delays, some of the delays. The animal research centre, I'm assuming, would be in that one.

 

OFFICIAL: It's just really a cash flow.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah. It's a cash flow that we're just – we're going to catch up eventually, but just trying to make changes while – I don't want to use the term make the changes on the fly. I don't know if that's a good thing when you're talking about budget but –

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay, thank you.

 

I think my time is up.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Michael.

 

Mr. Petten.

 

MR. PETTEN: 5.3.01.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 5.3.01.

 

MR. PETTEN: Did you notice the operating grant was reduced there as well?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MR. PETTEN: Do you expect any campus closures as a result of this reduction?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I'll make a statement now: As of right now I have no idea. Certainly, it's not a surprise.

 

These are targets that we've set with the College of the North Atlantic. Some of that offsetting – you're looking at $1.4 million. We're offsetting that $1.4 million by continuing our tuition freeze for Newfoundland students which is $1.1 million. We don't anticipate any major changes, other than what have been customary changes or tweaking with regard to program offerings they've done over the last number of years.

 

With any post-secondary institution that is offering programs there always has to be a review of what the labour market demands are. If, in fact, labour market demands in certain areas are not there, then that's the college's right to adjust programming. That has always happened and we don't see anything any different this year.

 

MR. PETTEN: Do you know what the enrolment numbers were for 2016 compared to 2017?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, we do. I thought I had that there.

 

Candice, do we have that write off? Do you have that number right there so that I don't have to look for it?

 

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS: (Inaudible.)

 

I have the number of graduates for 2016-17. For CNA it was 2,592. For enrolment for fall 2017 it was 5,482 for CNA.

 

MR. PETTEN: Would that be an increase? I know it's based on graduates and enrolment, but is that an increase from – one is graduates and one is enrollees, right?

 

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS: That's correct.

 

MR. PETTEN: How do I know if enrolment is up or down?

 

MR. HAWKINS: I can assure you that, as I mentioned earlier, right across the board we have a challenge. We have a challenge in our private training institutions, we have a challenge in our public post-secondary institutions, whether it's College of the North Atlantic or whether it's Memorial. If we have less students coming out of school, our enrolments are going to be down. We are seeing enrolment reductions, in the last two and three years, that are less.

 

In order for us to continue to have a competitive education going forward, we need to look at other areas. That's why I think it's important that we concentrate on international students and Canadian students. Right now, if you look at Memorial University – it's an interesting fact – one-third of the student population is from international students or Canadian students.

 

If you look back probably 20 years, I'm sure those numbers would have been significantly different. That's an area that we have to – as colleges and the university – continually monitor because we have to ensure that we have enrolment levels that provide revenue so we can have instructors and what goes around.

 

MR. PETTEN: Under 5.3.02, the federal revenue line.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Which line?

 

MR. PETTEN: The federal revenue.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MR. PETTEN: What is that?

 

MR. HAWKINS: That revenue line is under the Strategic Investment Fund, SIF. We have a number of projects that we're getting federal funding. This was a fund that was made available with very tight timelines in getting construction completed. In Newfoundland and Labrador, with some of the winter conditions that we have, not all of them have reached areas that we feel they should be.

 

We have applied for extensions under the SIF program and I think we've been pretty much granted all – if not all, just about all. You'll see adjustment in that federal funding. As more of these projects get closer to completion, then that's an adjustment of the federal funding that we have here.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

5.4.02.

 

MR. HAWKINS: 02?

 

MR. PETTEN: 5.4.02, yeah.

 

In Grants and Subsidies there's a decrease of $3.5 million and back up again this year.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, we had budgeted $5.6 million. Actually, we revised it to $2.1 million. Basically, what happened there is we used cash on hand.

 

The Newfoundland and Labrador Student Financial Services actually have a bank account. When collections come in from student loans, they go into this account. In 2017-2018, rather than getting a loan or taking it out of the budget, we were able to use cash on hand for that. That's where you're seeing the differential. We're back, in 2018-2019, at the $5.6 million level again.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay, so the $3.5 million was cash on hand?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Correct.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

The Revenue – Provincial; there's a $250,000 reduction in the revised in 2017.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes, the decrease was based on a review of the prior year trends. Again, the same scenario; it was cash on hand that was used to cover some of these operations. It's basically having the cash at the time versus having to find it in some other area.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

5.5.01, Purchased Services; the $1.564 million reduction in Revised and it's back up to $10 million again this year?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah, that was another one of those areas that it's probably difficult to predict precisely. The differential between the budget in 2017-18 and revised was lower-than-anticipated uptake of apprentice block training. The funds were transferred to the LMDA program to be used for other projects. It's not a matter of us losing the funding; it's just a matter that there was less of an uptake for the block training.

 

MR. PETTEN: Okay.

 

That's almost final. I just have a couple of questions to ask you, if you don't mind.

 

Would you provide me with how many 13-weekers are in your department?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Say what?

 

MR. PETTEN: How many 13-weekers.

 

MR. HAWKINS: We'd have to get that. I have no idea.

 

MR. PETTEN: No?

 

What about the total number of positions in the department for this year compared to last?

 

MR. HAWKINS: We do have that somewhere. What do we have here? That one here, Gig, that we have, going back to April 2013. Want me to go back that far?

 

MS. DOOLING: I can get the numbers.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay.

 

MS. DOOLING: Mr. Petten, I can answer that for you.

 

In 2017-18, the department had a total of 651 positions. In '18-'19 there are 609. So there's a change of 42 positions. I could step through those with you so that you understand the difference of the 42. Nine positions would be related to our attrition management plan; 30 positions related to the restructuring, the management restructuring that was done in the department is part of the '17-'18 budget, and three positions were normal turnover.

 

MR. CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Petten.

 

Ms. Michael.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

 

I just have one more question, Minister, and it's a general question. It has to do with the college's review and modernization plan. We were told they would be working with the province on infrastructure challenges. Can you give us an update on that, please?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes. Thank you.

 

Of course, there are probably a couple of plans. Memorial certainly has gone through a governance review. The College of the North Atlantic is working through their modernization plan which they've done a significant amount of work, and they're also looking at – they started looking at a strategic plan as well to incorporate within their broader mandate of what services they want to provide.

 

I guess following the Premier's task force on K to 12, there hasn't been a comprehensive study done, an independent study done of our public post-secondary education for quite some time, maybe 10, 12 years. We had discussions with Memorial, with the president. We had discussions with the president of the college, also with the chair of the Board of Regents and the chair of the college board and felt it probably would be prudent at this time to do a comprehensive study of our post-secondary public education system to make sure we have a system in place that projects into the next decade and the next decade.

 

There are a lot of changes that have happened really in the last 10 and 12 years, and we need to really be able to capture that. Part of capturing that would be looking at, how can the university and how can our post-secondary – and, of course, we don't look at the private training institutions because they're separate, they are private business. At least when we are providing a public education, we got to find ways in which we can provide these services more efficiently, more effectively and beneficial to our students and to faculty.

 

So what we're going to be doing is we're going to be embarking on a pretty extensive review. Involved in that extensive review will be the president of the college and president of the university; key stakeholders, such as students as well. Because I think it's very, very important that we engage students in that whole study and putting together a terms of reference.

 

Once that terms of reference has been put together, then we will look at putting together an independent committee, whether that's through the IAC or some other means. Right now, we are probably leaning towards the IAC to put together an independent committee that will then work on the terms of reference and looking at the possibility of then engaging an outside consultant or an independent consultant to be able to help them work through those terms of reference.

 

Again, there's not a lot of flesh put to what we're looking at but we're getting there on the framework piece. I would suspect that come the fall we probably should have our terms of reference pretty much set. Then, of course, the work will begin. We're pretty excited about that and would invite any ideas or any recommendations that you guys would have as well to help us as we put together. That certainly would be welcome, because I think it's important that we do this right. I'm really anxious to get in and get working on that.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

Something like the colleges reviewed modernization plan, that would just continue on –

 

MR. HAWKINS: Uh-huh.

 

MS. MICHAEL: – their own track?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yeah.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

Are you involved in working with them on that?

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes.

 

MS. MICHAEL: You are. Okay.

 

MR. HAWKINS: What's that?

 

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible.)

 

MR. HAWKINS: Yes, we do.

 

MS. MICHAEL: What was that?

 

MR. HAWKINS: No, she just reminded me. We get regular reports from the college on –

 

MS. MICHAEL: Okay.

 

MR. HAWKINS: – where they are. They've made some significant improvements in the way they are trying to modernize the services we're providing.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Great. I guess they'll have it ready for 2019.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Well, that's the target.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Since that's the target. Okay.

 

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister, that's all I have.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Okay.

 

Thank you.

 

CHAIR: Thank you.

 

MS. MICHAEL: And may I thank you and – because it will probably be the last time I'll speak. Thank you and your staff for being here tonight and working through late hours.

 

MR. HAWKINS: Not a problem.

 

Thank you.

 

MS. MICHAEL: Thank you.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Michael.

 

Mr. Petten.

 

MR. PETTEN: Yeah. I just wanted to close off, too, thanking the staff and you, Minister, for providing answers and staff for sitting in and providing the background.

 

From my pervious life, I do know what's involved with Estimates. There was a time I used to sit over there. So I do understand the process and I appreciate your time, patience and providing us all the answers.

 

Thank you very much.

 

CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Petten.

 

Can I ask the Clerk to recall the first subhead, please?

 

CLERK: 1.1.01.

 

CHAIR: Shall 1.1.01 carry?

 

All those in favour?

 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

 

CHAIR: All those against?

 

Carried.

 

On motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

 

CLERK: 1.2.01 to 5.5.01 inclusive.

 

CHAIR: 1.2.01 to 5.5.01 inclusive. Shall those subheads carry?

 

All those in favour?

 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

 

CHAIR: All those against?

 

Carried.

 

On motion, subheads 1.2.01 through 5.5.01 carried.

 

CLERK: Total.

 

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

 

All those in favour?

 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

 

CHAIR: All those against?

 

Carried.

 

On motion, Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour, total heads, carried.

 

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour carried without amendment?

 

All those in favour?

 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

 

CHAIR: All those against?

 

Carried.

 

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour carried without amendment.

 

CHAIR: I need a mover of the minutes of our meeting this morning.

 

MS. P. PARSONS: So moved.

 

CHAIR: So moved by Pam.

 

All those in favour?

 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

 

CHAIR: All those against?

 

Carried.

 

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

 

CHAIR: Just a reminder, our next meeting of the Resources Committee is this coming Thursday, April 26, at 6 p.m. and we will be reviewing the Estimates of Tourism, Culture, Industry and Innovation.

 

With that, I want to thank you, Minister, and your department as well for a great evening. We're out early, so go enjoy yourselves.

 

Thank you very much to the Committee.

 

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible.)

 

CHAIR: Thank you as well.

 

I would entertain a motion to adjourn.

 

MR. BRAGG: So moved.

 

CHAIR: So moved by Mr. Bragg.

 

All those in favour?

 

Carried.

 

On motion, the Committee adjourned.