March 15, 2001 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 2


The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order please!

Before we begin our routine proceedings, I want to introduce to all members of the Assembly our new Page. To my right we have Miss Karen Moores. Karen is a student at Memorial University.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

 

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island.

MR. WALSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On Thursday, March 15 - today, as a matter of fact - the Provincial Council of the Duke of Edinburgh Award Program is holding a bronze ceremony at the Town Hall on Bell Island, tonight. The Duke of Edinburgh Award is an international award for young people. This award program has been active in Newfoundland now since 1974. There are currently some 1,775 young people and 500 adult volunteers participating in the award program. The success of this program is largely due to the partnership which exists with the provincial government.

The following individuals from Conception Bay East & Bell Island, my own district, will be receiving an award at tonight's ceremony. They are: Edward O'Brien, Jeremy Boone, Amanda Fowler, Judy Whalen, Sharyn Hiscock, Crystel Churchill, Alex Boone, Christine Tulk, Cathy Tulk, Gordie Bennet, Jason Slade and Melissa Sheppard. These twelve young people will be receiving their awards, as I said, tonight at Bell Island.

We should all take pride in the accomplishment of these individuals, and I would like to take the opportunity to offer my personal congratulations to the recipients and hope that they continue with the program.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. WALSH: That is all I needed.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

MR. WALSH: In actual fact, that was the last word, Mr. Speaker.

I hope they continue with the program.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, it is with sadness that I rise once again to speak on the tragedy at Pouch Cove, and the loss of three young men: Jesse Elliott, Adam Wall and Adrian Sullivan. There were many people involved in the search and recovery of the three young men. There were many acts of bravery, from the boys themselves in trying to save each other, to the people at the scene putting themselves at risk in trying to save Jesse, Adam and Adrian. The air search and rescue people and, in particular, the individual who went into the icy waters to recover Jesse Elliott, are very much appreciated. Support from the people of the community of Pouch Cove and the various groups was humbling to me, and to see. The RNC, the Rovers, the Pouch Cove Firefighters, the Ladies Auxiliary, the ladies of the community, and the Lions and Lionesses of Pouch Cove, all played an important role in helping to bring Adrian, Adam and Jesse back to their families and friends. Particular attention, recognition and thanks - although thanks is certainly not necessary -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. J. BYRNE: By leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. J. BYRNE: - has to go the residents of Pouch Cove who eventually found the three young men. The persistence, tenacity and knowledge of these men brought Adam, Adrian and Jesse back to their families and friends, which will, in the long term, help bring closure for their families, friends, and the community in general.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West

MS M. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to pay tribute to a great Newfoundland woman who was laid to rest here in St. John's on Wednesday of this week. Helen Canning was a devoted wife of former MHA Patrick J. Canning, who represented the people of Burin-Placentia West in this House of Assembly for almost thirty years.

Mr. Speaker, there are many members in this hon. House who can attest to the valuable role a supportive partner often plays in the performance of our constituency duties. Helen, or the little princess, as many affectionately referred to her, proved to be one of the very best as she continuously touched the lives of so many through her assistance to Patty, in his role as a highly respected MHA. Helen's commitment to her church and community did not end with political life but extended well beyond these years of political involvement. Helen will long be remembered for her smile, her generous heart, and her open door policy. Our Province has lost one of its best, and I am certain all honorable members join with me today in extending condolences -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MS M. HODDER: Thank you,

- to Helen's daughter, Dr. Pat Canning; her husband, Richard Cashin; her sister, Gertrude Fleming; and three grandchildren: Jennifer, Stephanie, and John Paul.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask all members to join with me in congratulating Newfoundland and Labrador's first-ever winners of the National Junior Men's Curling Championships. On February 10 in St. Catharines, Ontario, skip Brad Gushue, third Mark Nichols, second Brent Hamilton, lead Mike Adam, and their coach Jeff Thomas, did our Province proud.

This week and next week, along with fifth man Jamie Korab, they are representing Canada at the World Junior Curling Championships in Ogden, Utah. It is a tremendous honor which they have earned through hard work perfecting their skills.

They have been busy practicing at the St. John's Curling Club, in my district, which is the curling rink they call home base. The Gushue rink is playing its first game this afternoon at 1:00 p.m. Utah time, 4:30 p.m. locally, against the U.S. We wish them well and assure them that not only the entire Province but indeed the whole country will be cheering them on.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, yesterday, March 14, was Literacy Action Day. Literacy Action Day was initiated in l993 by several national literacy organizations. The goal of Literacy Action Day is to raise the awareness of the need for further and continued support for literacy.

Mr. Speaker, literacy is a critical social and economic issue. There is an estimated seven to ten million adults, that is virtually one in every two Canadians, between the age of sixteen and older who cannot work well with words and numbers. Low literacy levels affect nearly all aspects of life, including our health, our income, our social populations, and educational attainment.

I would like to commend the Literacy Development Council of Newfoundland and Labrador for endorsing and promoting literacy action and raising public awareness during this issue.

On that same note, I would like to acknowledge the accomplishments of the Vista school district, in the Clarenville area, for their tremendous work in the area of literacy.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Last week, the minister announced that there were six schools in the Vista school district - six out of twenty schools in the entire Province - to have been top schools participating in Levels K- III in a reading program initiated by the minister. I would like to commend the Vista school district and their staff, and the parents and teachers, for that effort.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take a few moments, if I could, to speak about Carl English, who tomorrow night will take to the basketball court in Dayton, Ohio, for his debut with the National Collegiate Athletic Association. Carl is a member of the Rainbow Warriors Team, from the University of Hawaii. He assisted his team to win a berth at this NCAA Tournament with the game of a lifetime last Saturday night in Tulsa, Oklahoma. At this game, Carl scored twenty-five points, and with 1.8 seconds left on the clock he drove in for a basket that sent the game into overtime. His team finally won the game, seventy-eight to seventy-two.

Carl's is a story that dreams are made of and movies are made of. The fact that Carl English has reached this level of success is in no small measure to the commitment, hard work and sacrifice he has made during his lifetime. Carl was left an orphan at five years of age - with his four brothers - after a fire on Good Friday morning in Branch, St. Mary's Bay. His mom and dad succumbed to the injuries after that fire, and both died. He found comfort in basketball. He was separated from his brothers and went to live with parents -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. MANNING: Last year his stepfather died in his boat that was tied up to wharf in St. Bride's.

Carl's homemade basketball hoop on the main road in Patrick's Cove - the stories have reached as far as The Globe and Mail, The National Post, our own local media here in the Province and throughout the United States. In the small community of Patrick's Cove, with 150 people, it is no small feat. One thing for sure that Carl stands apart from in his debut in basketball in the United States is that his favorite food is cod fish.

The distance he has to travel has never bothered him. The journey has been a dream come true. Tomorrow night we would like to, on behalf of the Province, wish him the best - from a self-motivated and self-made proud Newfoundlander.

Thank you.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to update my honourable colleagues on my meeting yesterday with the Prime Minister of Canada, the Honourable Jean Chrétien.

I am pleased to report, Mr. Speaker, that my meeting with the Prime Minister was a very positive one. The Prime Minister demonstrated a clear understanding of the opportunities and pressures facing Newfoundland and Labrador. He agreed that we will work together, where possible, to achieve real and meaningful results for the people of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister and I discussed the state of the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery, and I expressed the strong opposition of this government to further allocations of shrimp to new interests in other provinces. I clearly indicated to the Prime Minister that the principle of adjacency must apply in the management of our fisheries resources. It was agreed that the federal and provincial Ministers of Fisheries should discuss this matter at the earliest opportunity. Our Minister of Fisheries has already written on the issue and a meeting is arranged.

The Prime Minister and I discussed the serious plight of substance abuse faced by the Innu children of Labrador. He indicated his continued support for our collective efforts to address this serious problem. Health and Community Services Minister Julie Bettney will continue to cooperate and consult with her federal counterpart, Minister Allan Rock, in addressing this important matter.

We also discussed the provincial name change, and agreed to ask federal and provincial Intergovernmental Affairs Ministers to work together to expedite the necessary processes.

The Prime Minister and I discussed a number of other important matters, including the divestiture of Ports and Harbours from federal to provincial jurisdiction; the equalization program; "clawbacks" on resource revenues; and the disposition of the federal government's 8.5 per cent share of the Canadian Hibernia Holding Corporation. We have agreed to work toward a realignment that would be advantageous for both our governments.

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister recently met with President Bush, and it is clear from that meeting that North American Energy Policy is an area of prime importance for all of us. The energy sector is one in which this Province is poised to play an increasingly important role. There is substantial interest in the development of the Lower Churchill Power Project, and in offshore natural gas development - both for local conversion to electricity on the Island, and for export. I was pleased to learn that the Prime Minister recognizes that both of these components could form a part of the North American Energy Policy.

Mr. Speaker, productive relationships are built on trust and understanding. I accept the Prime Minister's commitment to, and interest in, addressing the needs of this Province. This government will work with the Government of Canada, and indeed the other provincial governments where appropriate, in advancing our interests. I look forward to working with the Prime Minister as he addresses the priorities we discussed in our meeting yesterday.

Mr. Speaker, this was an introductory meeting, one which generated necessary follow-up activity in several key areas. As we pursue these issues, my Cabinet colleagues and I will report to this Legislature on developments as they occur.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is the Premier's first ministerial statement in the House as Premier. I thought it would have provided some opportunity or some measure to provide more beef. I mean it is reminiscent of the British comedy: Yes, Prime Minister/Yes, Prime Minister; because that is all that has happened in the meeting yesterday with the Prime Minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: For example, everybody on this side of the House and everyone in this Province were of the impression and understanding that the shrimp allocation last year to PEI would be a one-time issue only. Did the Premier come back with a commitment that that would be lived up to? Absolutely not, Mr. Speaker.

When we talk about the disposition of the Canadian Hibernia Holding Corporation's 8.5 per cent share of giving that to the Province, where did we hear that before? This Monday from the Leader Elect of our party and from myself, Mr. Speaker. Did the minister come back with any substance whatsoever from that? Absolutely not.

To add insult to injury, I have yet to hear this Premier talk about how the Province of Quebec continues to enjoy special status, continues to hold this Province hostage when it comes to energy development. We are supposed to live in an age of deregulation which allows us to freewheel our power across their province. Did he bring that up with the Prime Minister? I

with the Prime Minister? I say to the Premier, the next time you meet the Prime Minister talk about free trade within Canada before you talk about free trade within North America.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the last thing I will say is that if this is the type of report that we can expect from this Premier and this minister, my advice to you, Sir, unsolicited as it may be, behave like the groundhog, stay in the hole that you are in and don't even bother to come out to see if you have a shadow or not.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier reports that the meeting with the Prime Minister was a positive one. Well before the meeting even started, the single most important issue, the equalization formula, the Premier was shot down by the Prime Minister, just as the Minister of Finance was shot down by Paul Martin in Halifax two weeks before. Even though for the last five or six months we have heard the former Premier, supported by this government, suggesting that the equalization formula was going to be changed, we needed him and all of his ministers, all of his other Liberal members in Ottawa to do that. What we have, Mr. Speaker, is the Premier of this Province going to Ottawa with his shopping list and being told that there is nothing in the shop for him. He brought back nothing.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: He is going to have to do better than that if this Province is going to get any advantage from the deals that we need and the changes we need to have our rightful place.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my hon. colleagues of the Department of Education's comprehensive program of initiatives to improve literacy levels in our Province.

With the realignment of the department, we are able to devote more energy to improving the K-12 education system and intensify our focus on the provincial literacy strategy and early childhood education. Also, recognizing the importance of tackling literacy before the age of five and the vital role parents play in the development of children's literacy, responsibility for Early Childhood Education will become part of the mandate of the Department of Education. The department is currently involved in developing strategies to assist families long before their children reach kindergarten, together with the Departments of Health and Community Services, and Human Resources and Employment.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education's comprehensive strategy to improve literacy and numeracy, beginning in the primary grades, is well underway.

Reading specialists have been hired at each geographical school board office in the Province. In partnership with school districts across the Province, we are delivering specialized training to all primary classroom and special education teachers in how to teach reading, writing, oral language and other language arts skills. This training follows the implementation of a new language arts program in grades K-3. For children requiring extra assistance with reading, early intervention programs in reading are provided. To ensure that children in the primary grades have acquired the skills they need, an annual comprehensive testing program in language arts has been developed for Grade 3 students.

This year, a new program in mathematics was introduced at Grade 1. New learning resources and significant training for teachers were provided in an effort to increase achievement levels in mathematics by the end of Grade 3. Over the next two years, a new mathematics curriculum will be introduced to children in Grades 2 and 3. A few years ago we implemented new curriculum and resources for science in grades K-3.

Initiatives from the recent Ministerial Report on Education being considered to enhance literacy and numeracy levels include lengthening the primary school day and increasing the amount of instructional time for language arts and mathematics. These changes are being considered by government pending changes in legislation. Government also accepted the panel's recommendations to change the method of allocating teachers to school boards. This year a new allocation framework was implemented. This has resulted in an increase in the number of teachers allocated to the primary grades.

Our most recent initiative, as you may have heard last week, is that we are moving forward with our plan to increase class time in primary grades for language arts and mathematics. This latest initiative is part of our well-planned, well-thought-out, comprehensive strategy to improve literacy and numeracy levels in our Province and provide a well-rounded education to our students. I believe this is the right thing to do for our Province and the right thing to do to ensure our students are well prepared at the early stages of their education to move through the system and into their careers.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for giving me an advanced copy, but it really wasn't necessary because I read this, I think, in the Letters to the Editor three or four days ago in The Telegram. Let me tell the House that the spin is on.

There is no argument, minister, on this side of the House that we do need comprehensive, early literacy strategies. To look at what is actually being done in the schools, you put in programs and you talk about the language arts program going into the primary grades. It is a good program, minister, but you are not putting in the resources that are necessary for that program to be carried out. You are sending teachers in there with half the class number of books that are required. There is a ratio -

AN HON. MEMBER: It is shameful.

MR. HEDDERSON: It is shameful.

When you talk about professional development of the teachers, you are giving them one day, at the very most, to introduce these new particular programs. Your most recent initiative of taking time away from other subject areas to increase the time in language arts. Again, these initiatives were done without the proper consultation. You went ahead and dictated from above to the teachers who are the ones who are implementing these programs, and you did not even talk to them. So, when we look at you, as a minister, standing up today and saying that everything is fine -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HEDDERSON: - minister, it is shameful.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Certainly there is no one in the Province who would not support a thrust to increase the literacy of young children and see the Department of Education get fully involved in early childhood education as part of the mandate in the Department of Education. This is something that is long overdue. Many students in this Province need a lot of extra help in preparing them for school to be able to meet the program needs.

The real issue here is the one that has caused the most controversy, and that is the initiative mentioned in the last paragraph here about increasing class time in primary grades for language arts and mathematics at the expense of other programs. The Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers' Association, the people who are in the classrooms everyday of the week, every week of the school year -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: - are the ones who are questioning the minister's approach to this, and it should be reconsidered.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am glad to see the House open. We will get the opportunity, over the next several weeks and several months, to give the new Premier his opportunity to live up to his self-professed billing of straight answers and real solutions.

In line with that comment I would like to ask him this. In the 1999 Throne Speech, are you aware that the former Premier in the Throne Speech - a government of which he was part of - said: A loud and clear message has been sent to Inco by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. There will be no mine at Voisey's Bay unless the ore is processed in the Province. That is the choice. It is Inco's to make. My government's position, the position of the people of Newfoundland, will not waiver. Could he explain that statement, of the government he was a part of, with the one that he just made when he became Premier at his news conference, with his Minister of Mines and Energy, when he said: That the government would reopen formal negotiations with Inco with a clean slate. What do you mean, Premier, by a clean slate? Is it your way of saying that you feel no obligation whatsoever to live up to the commitments of your former Premier and your government, as you stated during the 1999 election, and in many, many subsequent statements both inside and outside this House?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the opportunity to give an answer in the Legislature because I have answered that question probably 10,000 times elsewhere in Newfoundland and Labrador. Maybe the Leader of the Opposition has chosen not to listen to the answer. I believe the people of the Province have listened to the answer. The short answer is this, because I will try to give short answers: There is no change in the position from the mandate sought in 1999 to today. None.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: There is a change, Mr. Speaker.

I will ask him this question. On May 19, 1999, under direct questioning in this House by me to the former Premier, Brian Tobin, I asked him this question. I will ask it to you, and we will see if you will give the same answer as he did. I asked him: Is the government still fully committed to the processing, that there will be no mine in this Province unless 100 per cent of the ore is processed in this Province, and also that the product that leaves this Province requires no further processing? Is that your position, yes or no?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have fast-forwarded from the election he talked about, and the Red Book of 1999 which was in January and February to May.

The commitment and the platform on which the members on this side of the House ran in 1999 was that there would not be a project at Voisey's Bay unless a method was found to have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador. That was what we said in 1999, in the election, and there has been no change.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: You see, Mr. Speaker? This is the same member who got up one day in this Legislature and tried to lecture us on "words are important". I say to the Premier: They are, and you may live, Sir, to eat yours. We will see.

I will ask him again, and I will quote from Hansard. Premier Brian Tobin, in response to me when I said: - and I wonder if you can stand up and say the same thing - Is government still fully committed to 100 per cent of the ore being mined, refined, and processed in this Province? It goes on to say - the hon. Premier, Premier Tobin, says: Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is the position of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask you again: Is that still your position? Because what you said a few moments ago does not reflect the position that the former Premier, who spoke for you and your government, said. Can you answer that today?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe I might ask a question of the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, he did make it quite clear just two short days ago that he would be reasonable and responsible in his role as the Leader of the Opposition, and that he would take opportunities to suggest what they would do if they were ever the government.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the question that I would like to ask is this - the question I would like to ask, because everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador knows the answer when I am asked. They say: Would you like to find a way to develop the Voisey's Bay project so that we can have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador and get on with some economic prosperity?

The answer, when I am asked that question, is: Absolutely yes. We would like to find a way to do that so we can have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador, and get on with economic development and have some further prosperity for Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: Would the Leader of the Opposition like to find a way, would he like for the government to find a way -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. Premier to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: - to make sure that nickel leaves Newfoundland and Labrador so that we can start our project in Voisey's Bay? Or, would he like for any negotiations to fail utterly and abysmally so that we can have nothing done? That is the question today, Mr. Speaker!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER GRIMES: Do we want something to happen or not? We want to make something happen, and we will try to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: I will say to the Premier: You will have enough ample opportunity asking questions in this Legislature in the very near future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: He reminds me of that sheep that was cloned in England: Dolly. Yesterday he talked about, in the Throne Speech, that he is going to be recognized for straight answers and real solutions, and today the clone of the Premier shows up and will not answer a question.

I will ask him again: On November 19, 1999, six months later, the former Premier, sitting in that chair, made a response - I will ask him if he is aware of it - that Inco is coming to recognize there will be no mine/mill development unless there is 100 per cent processing of concentrate in this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: I will ask you again, Premier: Is that your position?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do know the position. I do know absolutely the position on which every single member on this side of the House offered themselves for election in 1999, which was that we would not enter into an arrangement for a development in Voisey's Bay unless there was going to be processing to a nickel product in Newfoundland and Labrador. He read it from the 1999 version of the Red Book, and that was what was presented to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

That is what we lived with then, that is what we will live with today, and that is the commitment that we gave to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Elect us - which they did - and we will not do a project unless there is full development in Newfoundland and Labrador, maximum benefits, and that nickel leaves the Province.

I hope that my colleague, the Minister of Mines and Energy, has more success than I did when I was trying to do it, in terms of coming to an arrangement whereby we can proudly stand up and say to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that we have reached our objective, that we have an arrangement whereby we are going to have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador, and we can proceed with the development and get along with the economic benefits, go ahead with the economic benefits for everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador. We would be pleased to present that in all of its detail if our colleague has success on our behalf.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: The Premier cannot have it coming and going at the same time. I will ask him this. He talks about the Red Book. Is he aware that during the 1999 election, when former Premier Tobin opened up the headquarters of the Member for Gander, about ten days in, when questioned directly about how you would let ore go out of the Province, this is what a reporter said, and I have the transcript here: Let me be clear. During the election it is our policy to have all the ore processed in the Province, but beyond that we are not even prepared to discuss any alternatives.

Is that the position of your government today, Sir?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When we were having the debate a year or so ago in this Legislature, and I stood as the Minister of Mines and Energy, it was quite clear that just as the Minister of Mines and Energy will stand in this Legislature and give updates as to progress on the talks - because we hope there is progress. We do not want to stay here stalled with nothing happening. We want to make progress towards our objective of maximum benefits, full processing in Newfoundland and Labrador.

When we did talk about how words are important, every single day Hansard will show that inside this Legislature, and outside in the media, when I was asked the question, I indicated that what we were going to achieve was full processing in Newfoundland and Labrador. Full processing, two English words, Mr. Speaker.

I have been asked many times, what does that mean? What that will mean will be determined through a round of negotiations and bargaining by the Minister of Mines and Energy, and we will gladly lay out for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador what full processing means, because it will meet the commitment of the 1999 election. It will bring maximum benefits for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and it will have a nickel product leave Newfoundland and Labrador or there will not be a project.

Maybe they will get their wish, because they have their fingers crossed every single day, frightened to death that we might have some success and we might actually make this happen. They are over there in fear and trepidation that we might actually get this done, because they hate to see it done. They do not want to see it done. Which is why I am asking the Leader of the Opposition: What do you want to accomplish for Newfoundland and Labrador? Do you want to see the project go ahead? Do you want to see a nickel product leave Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: Do you want maximum benefits for the people, or do you want it not to happen so that you can go ahead with a political platform and suggest that maybe something will happen in the future? We will try to make it happen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, let there be no doubt what I want. What I want to accomplish for this Province is to rid this Province of a government that has not been forthright, that has not been honest, that has not been transparent, and we are about to do that!

Now, the Premier says: Let it be clear that I said, whenever I spoke - he talked about full processing. You, Sir, were not the one that received this mandate. This mandate was received on the premise of, who do you want to negotiate 100 percent of the ore, all being processed in this Province?

I ask you again, is that your position? Because it was your former, former, boss's position. Has the position of your government changed? Yes or no? Mr. Straight Answers and Real Solutions!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will try to restrain and constrain myself - getting a bit carried away at the issues today.

The Leader of the Opposition, as I just interpreted, clearly just admitted that he has no interest whatsoever in the development of Voisey's Bay, has no interest in whether or not any economic development happens in this Province. His only interest - and we will see it recorded in Hansard tomorrow - is that he wants to see the government changed. He does not care if anything happens, does not care if any one thing happens with respect to any development in Newfoundland and Labrador. His only interest, and he has admitted it in the very first day in Question Period, is to stand up and repeat over and over again whatever he has to, in the best interest of trying to get himself and his colleagues into the government. What happens in between, they could care less. He admitted it; he said it in his own words. The record will show the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that his only interest - and I take it he speaks on behalf of the Official Opposition, all of them. I am not sure if he speaks on behalf of the Leader of the PC Party, because he is not here. He is not in this Legislature.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: He is not in this Legislature, and does not want to come in to this Legislature. He has no interest in coming into this Legislature.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier to conclude his answer.

PREMIER GRIMES: Just to answer the question, the fact of the matter is that we, this group here, in case he did not know it -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: - the whole group of us ran in 1999 and we received a mandate as a team, not one person. It was not a person. It was a team that got elected in 1999.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier now to take his seat.

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Premier, I am glad he brings up mandate, because this is both an issue of mandate and of trust. Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are apprehensive about you and your government's handling in terms of who can make the best deal. Up until this point, everybody in this Province knew what this government's stance was. They do not know it today. Eighty per cent or more of the people in the Province supported that stance. They do not know what it is today. No one today, except Inco, has any idea where you or the minister stands.

I will ask the Premier: Do you understand the apprehension and suspicion amongst the public when you start splitting hairs and not providing the straight answers required in this Legislature? Do you feel at least as much obligation to them, Sir, as you do to watering down some further commitment about the mandate you received?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: No, Mr. Speaker, basically everyone understands that forty-eight people ran in 1999, in an election, and forty-eight people were elected, not one person. We do not run a system where you elect the President of the United States on a single ballot - one person. Each one of us - a few changes since - ran in the election. The Leader of the Opposition accurately quoted the Liberal Government's commitment to the people of the Province in 1999. It said: Elect us and we will make sure that there is no project unless nickel leaves Newfoundland and Labrador. I say again, for better and greater clarity, that has not changed one iota.

The only people splitting hairs and trying to suggest that there is some difference or confusion, is the Opposition. They have admitted why today: because they are trying to sow the seeds of doubt and confusion, because they want that to be the circumstance, because they are only interested in playing politics with the issue, because the only interest is - he has admitted it today - to try to take over the government, because he does not want to see - and I am more convinced then ever that each one of them is over there hoping, every single day, that we get nothing done because then they want to go to the polls and say: Look at that crowd; they did not do anything. Elect us, and guess what? We will do something.

Well, I will tell you one other thing. There is something else we will borrow from your Blue Book. Your Blue Book says: Elect us and we will do some things. We will do a Voisey's Bay project if we can meet the standard that was set forward in 1999, which is to have nickel leave Newfoundland and Labrador, and maximum benefits for our people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, he is right, we did produce a Blue Book and said we would do some things, but what they are really worried and confused about now is that they got elected and they did it - on our Blue Book!

I will ask him this; I will give him one final opportunity. Everybody understood in the Throne Speech of 1999 that former Premier Brian Tobin, speaking for the government, said clearly - I can quote it again but there is no need to - that Inco has come to understand that 100 per cent of the ore must be refined here.

Now, at your first press conference updating the Province, you said: We won't make a deal that cannot be explained.

What kind of a assurance is that? We won't make a deal that cannot be explained.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: Two years ago it was 100 per cent of the ore or nothing; today it is: We won't make a deal where it cannot be explained.

Premier, what is it? You cannot have it both ways. What is your position?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just let me state again: available in the public domain in Newfoundland and Labrador is the actual written statement from the Liberal Party and its candidates in the Election of 1999. As a matter of fact, I would invite people to look back to the 1996 Red Book, because almost the exact same words were also in that particular document.

With respect to the Blue Book and the Red Book, maybe you are starting to catch on to the strategy over here. Our plan for the election in two years' time - and I say this in all seriousness - we are going to put together a proposition whereby we will say to the people of the Province: We are Liberals, we run on Red Books; however, the Blue Book is all done - we will have done it - so now you have to elect us so we can get on with doing the Red Book.

That is our plan; we are going to have all of your stuff done. Then we are going to say: There is no point in electing them because that is all done. Now you have to elect us so we can do our own stuff.

You are catching on already. Mr. Speaker, they are starting to catch on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER GRIMES: With respect to this issue, it does not matter how the question gets asked; it is only important how it gets answered. The commitment was clear in the 1999 Red Book, in the election, and the commitment - I will say it every single time - has not changed today and is not going to change with this government.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are to the Premier. I want to ask the Premier about his pilgrimage yesterday to the Prime Minister's office in Ottawa. He went up there to follow up on the federal Liberals promise to stop or reduce resource clawbacks from equalization payments.

I want to ask the Premier: Will he report to this House how much these clawbacks are going to be reduced in the next fiscal year, and how much more resource revenue are we going to be able to keep during the next fiscal year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I cannot give the specific details of that today; however, I can tell you in all seriousness that the Prime Minister of the country is quite open and quite committed to the whole notion that the clawback arrangements should be changed and that he will take an active role in that. We look forward to positive developments on that particular issue.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier said he was pleased to report the meeting was a positive one. I say, God help us if he had to come back and tell us it was a negative one, with what he came back with.

I want to ask the Premier: Didn't the Prime Minister, didn't the federal Finance Minister, didn't the Industry Minister, who now doubles, does double duty as the Prime Minister's bodyguard, didn't they promise in the last federal election to reduce clawbacks to this Province on our resources?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker, all three politicians just named - and I have great respect, by the way, for the office of Prime Minister of the country, and I treat it with great respect. I also have great respect for any person who serves in Cabinet in the Government of Canada. All three of those gentlemen, in the election, did indicate that they felt that it was right and proper and appropriate that provinces like Newfoundland and Labrador, and the rest of the provinces in Atlantic Canada, should be given an opportunity to keep more of their own source revenue. That commitment was restated again yesterday by the Prime Minister of the country, which is why there are a whole group of different people now that will meet and look at the details of how that will occur, and when it will occur.

I look forward to progress, positive progress, and a real commitment that will mean real revenues, money and cash for Newfoundland and Labrador above and beyond what we receive today. I take it as a commitment that was made during the election, and a commitment that was reaffirmed yesterday by the Prime Minister. The details are not worked out; the money is not flowing today. I did not go yesterday expecting to bring back five cents - not one cent - but I wanted a reaffirmation of the commitment. It was given, and I expect that we will have action on that in the foreseeable future and we will gladly report back to the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister, you said that you hoped to achieve an 80 per cent recycling rate within the next year. We conclude that a goal of 80 per cent recovery is an optimistic target; very unrealistic, Minister. We base this conclusion on the fact that the highest recovery rates in Canada are in Alberta at 79 per cent; however, Alberta have higher refunds. In fact, the full deposit is given back as a refund in Alberta, a system they have had for thirty years. Now, in all honesty, how do you realistically expect to deliver an 80 per cent rate of recycling in this Province within the next year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Environment.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I realize the situation that my hon. critic finds himself in. I guess the simple answer to his question is that we would try to make eighty. In fact, we are going to try to make ninety.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: The Opposition, Mr. Speaker, finds that kind of funny. I do not, because if we are here as a government then we have an obligation to try to do the best possible job that we can do, and to present the facts as we see them, as we have done.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: My information tells me that in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick they have reached 75 per cent to 80 per cent. Mr. Speaker, if they can do it in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, there is no reason why we, here in Newfoundland, cannot do the same thing.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Minister, I realize the position I am in. I wonder if you realize the position you are in.

Minister, in Nova Scotia they have supplementary programs. I just quoted from the Grant Thornton Report, your own department's review of your recycling program, and in the Grant Thornton Report they clearly outline that only after three years of a more attractive six cent deposit and five cent refund would this Province reach 65 per cent recycling.

Now, Minister, you have the facts.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Minister, I am asking you this: Are you saying you are right and your own report, your own facts, are wrong? If so, tell us what report you are basing your responses on.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: First of all, Mr. Speaker, it is not my report. We did not do the report. It is was a report that was done and presented to the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board. I still stick behind my statement as to what has been done in Nova Scotia.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: My hon. critic referred to what is being done in Nova Scotia. In fact, Mr. Speaker, he has encouraged publicly that we go to the blue box system here in Newfoundland and Labrador. The actual fact about the blue box system in Nova Scotia is that it only collects 3.8 per cent of the beverage containers.

AN HON. MEMBER: Red box.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Yes, that is an idea. My colleague is saying that maybe we should bring in a red box.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: I can understand why they are probably having some problems with this, Mr. Speaker. This was never in the Blue Book.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that we, on this side of the House, are going to try to reach an 80 per cent collection rate on the beverage containers. If they do not want to do that, then that is up to them. They are not on this side of the House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. I want to refer him to the report issued by Voisey's Bay Nickel Company in the year 1999, in February, after the election, indicating that the benefits to this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and taxpayers, would be a total of $417 million, while the federal taxpayers would receive $4.9 billion in revenues from Voisey's Bay Nickel.

These are the only numbers that we have seen. Is this the kind of maximum benefits to Newfoundland and Labrador that the Premier is talking about when he is talking about the maximum benefits from Voisey's Bay for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We will maximize the benefits to Newfoundland and Labrador in every way possible. One way is to maximize the employment opportunities themselves from a mine/mill operation, from a processing facility, and all of the attendant things to come with that. Secondly, we will maximize, to the greatest extent we can under the fiscal regimes that are in place in the country and in the Province at the time, the revenue streams to the government, the provincial government, so that we can use those revenues to provide quality services to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that they desire, wish, want and hope for from their government.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, from the tone of the Premier's remarks and response it seems to him totally acceptable that we have a regime in this country that gives ten times the benefits to the people of Canada for a provincial resource, under provincial constitutional values.

Now that the Minister of Finance has been told no by Paul Martin in Halifax, the Premier was told no before the meeting yesterday, there are to be no changes before 2004, how can the Premier and this government negotiate a deal on Voisey's Bay without knowing what the revenues are going to be to this Province, without knowing what the benefits are going to be? How does he plan to do that? Or is he just going to be whistling in the dark and hoping there are going to be some positive changes down the road?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All of the current rules, regulations and fiscal regimes are well known to everybody involved: the provincial governments, the federal governments, the companies themselves. Everyone that is involved knows the current fiscal regimes. If there are changes, positive changes, which we anticipate with respect to the clawback issue in particular, which is a big feature of Voisey's Bay because we stand to generate very significant royalty revenues from the deposit at Voisey's Bay, and if the clawback arrangement, which is the key to the whole thing, is altered so that a province like Newfoundland and Labrador can keep more of its own source revenues, then obviously the numbers that were in that study a couple of years ago would change significantly.

In any event, while those numbers are fairly accurate for the time they were put together and reported, the circumstance is that while that cash value is clearly the number that reflected the circumstance in 1999, the whole circumstance of whether or not Newfoundland and Labrador was better off and less dependent upon the Government of Canada for transfers is also a part of the whole discussion. We will gladly have, we will absolutely, gladly, look forward to the day that the Minister of Mines and Energy can stand up and outline a project with all of the attendant benefits for Newfoundland and Labrador, and show to people, and demonstrate to people, how we did get maximum benefits for this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

MR. LUSH: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to bring to hon. members' attention a couple of the rules regarding our Question Period. We have designed the rules ourselves. This House has designed the rules and there is an onus and a responsibility on all members to follow the rules. I observed today where a couple of the rules were broken. I think, as I said, there is an onus and a responsibility on us all to follow them. I want to remind hon. members of subsection (4) of our own Question Period, which says: Oral questions must not be prefaced by the reading of letters, telegrams, newspapers, extracts or preambles of any kind.

Mr. Speaker, these rules are there for a purpose, to govern the orderly and smooth flow of Question Period, and hon. members ought to follow them.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. LUSH: I am not finished.

Mr. Speaker, I want to bring to the attention of hon. members one other rule from Beauchesne, which is §409.(1), talking about the question. It says: The question must be brief. A long preamble on a long question takes an unfair share of time and provokes the same sort of reply.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, it finishes by saying, "A supplementary question should need no preamble."

I will leave these thoughts with hon. members and let them inwardly digest them.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to respond to the point of order and say that from time to time, I say to the Government House Leader, we all must be reminded of the Standing Orders that we govern ourselves. I was perplexed, very perplexed, that the Government House Leader didn't read on in the Standing Orders, or read on in Beauchesne, where it talks about responses to questions that are asked in this House - that they must be brief..

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: From my memory, I bet you it is almost succinct, almost direct from it, that the answers must be brief, that the answers must be to the point, and they should not waste the time of this Legislature.

I say to the Speaker, with the utmost respect, when you, as you always do, in a very impartial way, enforce the rules of this House, while you have had to, from time to time, enforce them on us, please ensure, Mr. Speaker, that you apply the rules equally to the ministers and Premier across the way.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, all hon. members know our own Standing Orders as it pertains to Question Period. Honourable members know that questions ought to be brief. They also know that responses should be brief as well. I ask all hon. members, when asking questions and when answering the questions as well, to keep in mind our own Standing Orders and the guidelines for Oral Questions as stated in Beauchesne.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Select Committee appointed to draft a Reply to the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, I am pleased to present the report of the Select Committee as follows: To His Honour the Lieutenant Governor, the Honourable A.M. House:

May it please Your Honour, we, the Commons of Newfoundland and Labrador, in legislative session assembled, beg to thank Your Honour for the gracious Speech which Your Honour has addressed to this House.

On motion, report received.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair would like to table a number of items. First of all, in accordance with section 39 of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary Act, 1992, I hereby table the annual report of the RNC Public Complaints Commission for the year ending March 31, 2000.

As well, in accordance with section 32 of the Auditors General's Act, I hereby tabled the report of the Auditor appointed by the Commission of Internal Economy to audit the Office of the Auditor General for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2000.

In accordance with section 35 of the House of Assembly Act, I hereby table the annual report of the Commission of Members' Interest for the period April 1, 1999 to March 31, 2000.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House approve in general the budgetary policy of the government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I give further notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply to consider certain resolutions for the granting of Interim Supply to Her Majesty, Bill 2.

Further, Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply to consider certain resolutions for the granting of Supply to Her Majesty, Bill 3.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I give notice and ask leave of the House to move, pursuant to Standing Order 65.(1), the appointment of the Striking Committee to consist of the following: The Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island, the hon. Mr. Walsh; the Member for Trinity North, the hon. Mr. Wiseman; the Member for Ferryland, the hon. Mr. Sullivan; the Member for Bonavista South, the hon. Mr. Fitzgerald; and the Member for Terra Nova, myself.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

You have heard the motion.

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

Motion carried.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow introduce the following Private Member's motion:

WHEREAS too often in the past the people of this Province have not received fair benefits from our resources; and

WHEREAS there are people along the Labrador Coast and in other communities in Newfoundland and Labrador in desperate need of access to the northern shrimp resource;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly strongly oppose any further allocation of the northern shrimp resource to out of the Province interests.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition that has been signed by over 500 residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I also note that there are more petitions that are arriving with the same prayer. It is addressed to the hon. House of Assembly and it reads as follows:

The petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland, Canada;

WHEREAS the Newfoundland and Labrador Public Libraries Board permits the viewing of pornographic, violent, degrading behaviours by way of the Internet to patrons nineteen years of age or over in areas where children are exposed to unsuitable material; and

WHEREAS we do not wish our tax dollars to be spent in this manner;

THEREFORE we call upon the hon. House of Assembly to request government to introduce legislation to protect our children from exposure to this material.

Mr. Speaker, I note that this matter has been raised in the public forum by concerned citizens, and in particular, Mrs. Gwen Andrews. The people who signed this petition come from all parts of this Province; Chamberlains, Mount Pearl, Paradise, Port Saunders - just going through here - Howley, Triton, Brighton, Raleigh and all across this Province.

The people who signed this petition do not want to interfere with the good work that the Libraries Board is doing in our many communities. However, they want guidelines established that will prevent our libraries from being used in inappropriate manners, prevent our children from being potentially exposed to the violence that is available for them to see by way of the Internet, prevent them from being exposed to pornographic and other unsuitable literature.

The people who signed this petition think that the government has some responsibility to give directions to the Libraries Board, to give firm direction, that makes it impossible for any young children to be able to see this kind of pornographic and violent behaviour that can be accessed through our libraries and how (inaudible) it is. They are trying to make it unavailable to young students and young people but it is possible, in some of our libraries, for young people to see this kind of material.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. House, parents send their children to the public libraries for all the right reasons. They should feel comfortable that their children are in a safe, morally, and conducive environment. They do not want their children exposed in any way, for any possibility to exist, that they would be exposed to pornographic, violent or degrading behavior. They are not against the Internet. The Internet is wonderful, however there needs to be guidelines established that would make sure that it is used for all the right reasons and that our young children will not have any potential at all to be exposed to this kind of behaviour which represents the prayer and plea of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who signed this petition. Mr. Speaker, that there are many more petitions coming because these people want action on this, and they would like to have it immediately.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a large number of people from all over Newfoundland and Labrador. I have to say first of all, that it is directed to the Premier and all MHAs and not in the usual proper form for this House, but it is concerning Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. I would ask that leave be granted to present the petition to the House.

The petition asks that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Corporation reverse its decision on layoffs and transfers of Hydro employees in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. This action by Hydro in its future plans for layoffs will have a severe social and economic impact on our communities.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Corporation is a public corporation which has a responsibility to provide a high level of service to all residents of Newfoundland and Labrador. Although it is primarily involved in generation, it also distributes electricity in many rural communities in Newfoundland and Labrador. What they have done by this action is stripped the rural service in Newfoundland and Labrador. They have applied a different standard for reliability. They have admitted in public statements and private meetings that they in fact will be reducing the reliability of their service by removing some of the people involved here, people who in some cases are laid off, in some cases transferred out of areas where service is provided. Mostly on the Northern Peninsula and the Labrador Coast, but also the South Coast and Ramea is being affected by this.

In Labrador, even though in the Happy Valley-Goose Bay region they have in excess of $100,000 of overtime being used now by the lines people out of the Goose Bay region, they are reducing the number of people available, downgrading the service, and making less service available to rural Newfoundland. This comes as a great shock to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. The Mayor of Flowers Cove, and other mayors and municipalities throughout rural Newfoundland, have urged - along with the members of the IBEW whose individual members are affected - Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to change its position. They have also called on the government, the Minister of Mines and Energy, to direct Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to take its responsibility seriously in terms of the delivery of service to rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

In terms of the issue of safety, which has been raised throughout this, in the fact that there will be less people available when a pole has to be climbed and a high voltage of electricity has to dealt with.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, we ask that the minister respond to this petition and respond to the prayer of the petition.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to present a petition to the House on behalf of hundreds of people throughout this Province, and in particular, the people who are affected by Newfoundland Hydro's recent layoffs and reorganization of staffing throughout the Island.

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and Labrador;

WHEREAS Newfoundland Labrador Hydro's decision to layoff and transfer Hydro employees in rural Newfoundland and Labrador and its future plans for layoffs will have a severe social and economic impact on our communities; and

WHEREAS your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to direct Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to reverse its decision in this regard. As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to speak for a few minutes on this and point out the importance of this issue to all of Newfoundland and, in particular, to the people of the tip of the Northern Peninsula and The Straits & White Bay North. You cannot overestimate the impact of losing any number of jobs in a rural economy, like the tip of the Northern Peninsula, where jobs are already in short order. You cannot overestimate the serious implications of these cuts on services to the area. This is an area that is far removed from the Province. It is very hard to get to in the middle of the winter when trouble is often the case. That is when trouble comes along, in the middle of the winter. People cannot be serviced in this area when you have no ground worker drivers and the staffing is just not there to do the job.

The main thing here is this, as people have pointed out over the past number of weeks since this decision was made by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, this flies in the face of government's stated policy of using government departments, government agencies, government personnel and services to stabilize and generate employment, in some cases, in rural Newfoundland where the areas are severely economically disadvantaged. At this point, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro has completely gone against government's policy here. We have had no action and no response from the minister to direct Mr. Wells and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to reverse this decision.

On behalf of the people of the Northern Peninsula, rural Newfoundland and IBEW, I would like to ask the minister to direct Mr. Wells to reverse this decision, and certainly in addition to this and in conjunction with the layoffs, to look at the recent transfer of poles by Newtel Communications to Newfoundland Power in areas like the tip of the Northern Peninsula where Newfoundland Power does not have a presence -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. TAYLOR: - and if there is a problem in this area we are going to have to look at - the closest Newfoundland Power crew is in Corner Brook so it should not take them too long to respond to a broken pole in Raleigh, I would not expect.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: If Mike O'Brien gets a hold of you, you will be in the barn, I say to the minister, for a long time too. If he had to get out of the living room the other evening you would not be here today.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I am just saying, I am up here on my feet trying to make a few comments.

AN HON. MEMBER: Tell us a story.

MR. MANNING: No, I can't be at that.

Mr. Speaker, I have known the O'Brien brothers for a good many years. It is very interesting to see that they are constituents of the hon. member opposite. As soon as I get on my feet he brings up about the barn. I just want to make a quick comment back that he will be out in the wood shed when Mike O'Brien gets a hold of him. It is interesting, but I cannot go into too much detail on that now.

I am on my feet today in the House -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) gets a hold to him?

MR. MANNING: Mike O'Brien, when he get a hold -

AN HON. MEMBER: I was up to see him last week.

MR. MANNING: No, you didn't see Mike, I say to the minister. You did not see (inaudible) because if Mike had to see, you would not be here. They had to keep Mike in behind because I really believe that he wanted to talk to you. I truly believe he wanted to talk to you but his brother was very astute knowing that it would not be wise to have Mike out talking to you.

If I could make a few comments, Mr. Speaker. I am going to talk about the O'Briens later on in regard to the Throne Speech, and believe me, I can tie it in.

I am pleased today to stand in the House of Assembly and make a few comments on the Speech from the Throne that was brought forward here on Tuesday, March 13. Some people would like to call it the new face of the Liberal government. This is the new face of the Liberal government. I say to the Minister of Finance, I know all about his visit the other day. The new face, the new direction of the Grimes' team. This is it, this is the new face of the Grimes' team. The straight answers, real solutions.

Today is March 15, the Ides of March, the day the knives are out. This is the day the knives are usually out. On that side of the House they know all about the knives after what they went through a couple of weeks ago out at the Glacier in Mount Pearl. Out at the Glacier in Mount Pearl they know all about the knives. We will get into that, but there are a couple of members who are not here today.

I want to take a moment, if I could, to talk about the Throne Speech and look at the new team, the new face of the Liberal government that is before our eyes today, and to take a moment to make a few comments on the new team and what has happened over the past couple weeks as this speech was being put together, the Speech from the Throne. If I could go back to the formation of this government, which brought forward this document to us on March 13, I look and the only difference I see with this book and the one from the last Speech from the Throne is that it is stapled differently.

I want to make a few comments on what I believe is the new face, what I believe is reading between the lines of this document that was put forward in the House of Assembly on March 13, and the new face of this government and what they are putting forward to the people of this Province. I want to make a few comments on what we believe, on this side of the House, to be a rendition of the Blue Book that we put forward in the House of Assembly, but before I do that I would like to make a comment. I am a little bit confused - maybe if someone had an opportunity they could - with the seating of the House.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member from Trinity North, I will get to you in a minute.

I am a little bit confused on the seating arrangement in the House. I came down here on March 9 and I was given a seating arrangement. It must have been put up on my desk. I came down and looked across the House and found the Member for Humber West right up there in the nosebleed section. Right up in the nosebleed section on March 9, according to this document that I have here in front of me.

The Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island was down in the front row. Once again, almost in Cabinet, Mr. Speaker. So close and yet so far away, I say to the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island. You made a mistake in regard to Cabinet, in who you supported, but you did not make a mistake in who you supported. I agree 100 per cent there, I say to the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island. It is just that in the overall picture, what happened. Then after the first ballot, where you went, it caused a whole lot of problems for you. I understand that. That is why you are back in the second row now. The Member for Humber West must have called somebody between March 9 and March 13 because when we came down on March 13 the Member for Humber West is down in the front row and the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island is up in the back. I would like to know why a comment wasn't made on the seating arrangement in the Speech from the Throne? You came down and put out a plan like we have here on March 9, and on March 13 the plan has changed already. It just goes to show, Mr. Speaker, that the tail is wagging the dog in this situation and this is a clear example of it right here in front of us.

Mr. Speaker, we look through the Throne Speech and see an announcement that there is going to be a Child Advocate put in place. A notion that the PC Party, through the Blue Book, brought forward in the last campaign, a Child Advocate. Something that is needed in this Province. Something that has been needed for quite some time. Now we have a situation where a Child Advocate has been brought forward in the Speech from the Throne, and we wait with anticipation on this side of the House to see who will - there are two important aspects to this statement here on page 4 in the Speech from the Throne. The first important aspect is the fact that we are getting a Child Advocate. We all agree with that. You will get no argument from this side or, I would say, from any person in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that there is a need for a Child Advocate.

The second part is what concerns us on this side of the House. The second part of this is: Who is going to be the Child Advocate? There are a couple of criteria that you need to be, that we see, a Child Advocate. One is that you had to be a delegate at the convention that was held at the Glacier. That was one of the things that we seen here, and that is what concerns us. Is one of the criteria for the Child Advocate - a very important position in this Province - that you had to be a delegate at the convention at the Glacier? We ask that question in all honesty because we do not want to see the Child Advocate just to be somebody that is put in place. We want to see meat put on the bones here, and we are asking the question: Did you have to be a Liberal delegate at the convention at the Glacier to be the Child Advocate? Also, we want to know: Is the Child Advocate going to report to that side of the House or are they going to report to all of us in the House of Assembly? We hope that it will be a report to the House of Assembly. That it will be arms length, just like the Auditor General, and will report to the House of Assembly. Therefore the confidence is instilled in the office of the Child Advocate by the people in this House to the people of the Province. If we don't, from day one - and I say it very sincerely - put a level of confidence in the position of Child Advocate in this Province, we are failing on day one. I stress to government to make sure that it is an open process, that it is straight answers and real solutions when it comes to the Child Advocate and that we have the opportunity to make sure that it fulfills its role.

Another part of the Throne Speech that I found very interesting was the first order that was put before the House for this session, the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador. We will have to wait for the details of the act to find out exactly what the plans are, but it is certainly something we could live with on this side of the House, I am sure, if it is something that is real, if it is something that is concrete, and if it is something that means something. The Order of Newfoundland and Labrador - I listened the other night to one of the open-line shows and someone suggested that the first Order of Newfoundland and Labrador should go out to the fishermen and the people who helped in Pouch Cove last week. I think that would be a great idea. As the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador comes forward, we will find out exactly what it means. Certainly the fishermen and people involved in the rescue attempts in Pouch Cove could be some of the first candidates for the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I also found in the Speech from the Throne a review of the Freedom of Information Act. Again, we wait with bated breath on this side of the House for the new laws, new regulations and reviewed act with regard to the freedom of information because it has been a circus here for the past several years on the Freedom of Information Act. What would you need in a circus? You need clowns, and we have them too. The bottom line is that the Freedom of Information Act has to be an open document, an open process where we do not have to wait forever to find information.

Televised proceedings of the House; I look forward to that. We will not be sitting here with all these empty chairs when the televisions are in here. The hairdressers will do well when the televisions get here. It is going to be interesting to see the changes that are going to come here with the fall sitting when the televisions are here. I can see now that it is going to be an interesting process.

Another part of the Speech from the Thorne talked about the Provincial Youth Advisory Committee, another great opportunity to have the youth involved. We have to concentrate on our youth. We have to concentrate on the people who are leaving the Province, the young people who are being trained here and leaving the Province. We have to concentrate on them, and I look forward to seeing that committee being put in place. Once again, I hope it is not just a committee for the sake of having a committee, that it is a committee that has meat on the bones once again.

I find the word action used a fair bit in the Speech from the Throne. I have been here for several years now and it is the inaction that I am concerned about more so than the action of the members opposite.

It has been an interesting process over the past couple of weeks to watch this government be put together, to watch this government come together and put forward their ideas to the House of Assembly on Tuesday, and indeed to the Province as a whole.

Certainly there are a lot of concerns and I was very pleased, we were very pleased, to see a new Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs. A new Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs is certainly something that we, on this side of the House, think is a good idea. We are very pleased to see that the minister of that new department hails from the great land of Labrador and that, once again, the minister is heading up a new department as he did in his previous department. We are going to give him time to get things put together in regard to the new Department of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs, and we look forward to the challenges that will be coming with that.

I am sure that the Member for Lake Melville is looking forward to taking on that new role as the new minister of that new department. Certainly from his track record of other departments he has been involved in, I would say that he is not going to ruffle too many feathers in getting it, but hopefully at the end of the day he will get the job done. He is not a fellow for ruffling too many feathers. For a giant of a man he is very quiet, but we are sure that his heart and his soul are in the right place in regard to the new department and we look forward to his involvement in that.

I watched over the past several weeks as the new government - I call it the new government, because it is a lot of old faces. I don't say that to the President of Treasury Board, but certainly a lot of old faces. It definitely is an opportunity to put some new faces in the Cabinet. I was surprised at a few, I will be honest with you. I am still reeling from a couple of the appointments. I have a job to keep the car on the road straight when I hear some of them on the radio speaking as a Minister of the Crown. I was going to make a comment on one of the ministers, but he is not here right now so I will wait until he comes back.

It was interesting to watch the swearing in ceremony down at Government House. I see that everybody got a clap except the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation. That was interesting because, when you look back a few days after at the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, he was not on the right side out in the Glacier first. Then, when he had a choice to go somewhere else, he made a step in the right direction. With the closeness of the last ballot, I think, if nothing else, that the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation deserved a clap down at the Government House. That was the least they could do for him, because he brought ten or twelve votes with him, or maybe more, that helped put the now Premier over the top at the convention, and you never even gave him a clap. He was never a fellow for making inroads, but I was surprised that he did not even get a clap down at Government House.

AN HON. MEMBER: Even if they had given him a mild applause.

MR. MANNING: A mild applause. You did not have to jump up and say that it is great that you are on our side, or we are delighted that you are on our side.

A part that concerned me the most was when the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace - I was expecting the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace to go into Cabinet, because with the refusal of the Member for Port de Grave to go in, it is a large area down there and a heavy populace in that area -

MR. H. HODDER: It is the first time in forty years that area has not been represented in Cabinet.

MR. MANNING: It is the first time in forty years, the Member for Waterford Valley tells me, that area of the Province, Carbonear-Harbour Grace, Port de Grave, has not been represented at the Cabinet table. I have to say, we were very surprised on this side of the House.

Here he comes now. I think we should give the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation a clap.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: He never got one at Government House, but we gave him a clap here today, and we are very pleased..

I want to get to the fact that, for the first time in forty years, the area of Carbonear- Harbour Grace, Port de Grave, is not at the Cabinet table; the first time in forty years. He did not say anything because he is quite content up there in the nosebleed section, and that is where he is going to stay.

Then, I looked and the Member for Trinity North did not make it into Cabinet and I was concerned. I asked myself: Why isn't the Member for Trinity North in the Cabinet? I know why, Mr. Speaker, because the new Premier could not handle two wise men in his Cabinet at the one time. He could not handle two wise men. We all know what one Wiseman has done since he got there. What would two wise men do? We cannot allow that level of wise men, that level of wisdom, to be in the new Cabinet. So, we have to keep it at one Wiseman, and we all know his track record over the past couple of weeks, since he has been in the Cabinet. All we have to do is drive up to O'Brien's. Here he comes; he is back now.

I asked the question: How come the Member for Trinity North was not in Cabinet? The only conclusion I could come to was that they could not handle two wise men in Cabinet at the one time. We all know what one Wiseman has done. We all know what he has done up on O'Brien's Hill. Two old gentlemen up on O'Brien's Hill, he was going to charge them $500,000 a day, but he got his reins hauled in on him there. The Minister of Mines and Energy was up to visit, and he got his reins hauled in. We all know what he is going to do with recycling, the cash grab on recycling, and what did he do? He got his reins hauled in again, three weeks in the job. We, on this side, are waiting to see what you are going to do next.

AN HON. MEMBER: The flip-flop minister.

MR. MANNING: The flip-flop minister, and you are only there a couple of weeks. All we can do is stay tuned to that. Stay tuned.

Then, we had the Member for Humber East - where is the Member for Humber East - who was very disappointed that he was not in Cabinet. We are disappointed on this side.

The sandbagger cannot be in the Cabinet. We have to be very careful there. They are not going to give you a chance to sandbag the new Premier. They are not going to give you a chance, but it is interesting to see that you held on to your post in the Chair. We look forward over the next several months of you giving good, solid rulings, and we look forward to your fair and square rulings.

Mr. Speaker, I say to you in all honesty, think how we treat you towards how they treat you, and I hope that your rulings will reflect that over the next few days.

It is very interesting how things have been laid out. When I look back at when the Premier was putting together the Cabinet and trying to put the new face on his team, we had the former Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Efford, who stood up and said: no way. Then we had the former Minister of Finance, and Mines and Energy, Mr. Dicks, who stood up and said: no way. Then we had the former member for Labrador, the campaign manager for Mr. Efford, stand up, and they told him to go away. Go away, they told him.

It is interesting to see how it all came to pass. We are very pleased with some appointments to the Cabinet, we are very concerned about some others, and over the next couple of months we look forward to the new face of government.

I have to ask, Mr. Speaker: We wonder why the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair was not in Cabinet? We really thought - because when I was here in the House before, she was on this side; when I was on this side of the House. she was over here with us, on this side. It wasn't with us, thanks be to God. She wasn't with us, but she was on this side of the House. Then she went over to that side of the House, hoping that some day she would make it to Cabinet. In order to get to Cabinet, you had to deliver your delegates, and Danny delivered the delegates. Danny delivered twenty-four solid delegates, and that is why the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair is up in the nosebleed section, and that is why she will stay there until the next leadership which won't be too far down the road.

Mr. Speaker, we are looking forward to the day -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) in Danny's chair.

MR. MANNING: You are in Danny's chair up there and we look forward to the day when Danny will be back in the House.

Mr. Speaker, if I could get back for a moment -

MS JONES: Which Danny is that?

MS S. OSBORNE: (Inaudible) back in the House.

MR. MANNING: Don't worry! We are not concerned about any Danny; you are concerned about two of them.

If I could get back, Mr. Speaker, to the Speech from the Throne and the plan that was put before the House on March 13, it is very interesting.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, I have to say that the appointment of the new Fisheries Minister is welcome news. I can stand up and give credit where credit is due. You are very lucky your last name is not Wiseman because you wouldn't have two wise men in the Cabinet. We are very pleased with the appointment of the Minister of Fisheries. We think it is good news. The man has a history in the fishing industry, Mr. Speaker, and we are very pleased to see the new Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture in his place, especially coming from a district like Twillingate and Fogo which I know is very immersed in the fishing industry. To have a voice at the Cabinet table, Mr. Speaker, really is welcome news to that district. I look forward to working with the minister over the next several months. When we look at an area like that, that is strategic planning to have a Minister of Fisheries from an area like that.

Then we look at the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace - they forgot about him. They left him up in the back benches. Forget about Carbonear-Harbour Grace, forget about Port de Grave - forty years at the table. I can hear them now on that side: they have enough, boy, they have enough, leave him up there. Mr. Speaker, they forgot about him; forty years washed down the drain.

Mr. Speaker, it is the first time since Confederation that Corner Brook has not sat to the Cabinet table. It is the first time since Confederation that the face of government didn't include the City of Corner Brook. Mr. Speaker, I think that is a shame; a city like Corner Brook not included with the new face of government. That is why we cannot understand that, I say to the members opposite. We cannot understand that.

MR. SWEENEY: (Inaudible)

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member fo r Carbonear-Harbour Grace, I can't hear you. Say that again.

MS S. OSBORNE: What is your excuse for not being in Cabinet?

MR. MANNING: As I said to the former member for Labrador, Mr. Speaker, and I will say it to the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace: I will be in Cabinet before you.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you coming over?

MR. MANNING: I am going over, but I am bringing a lot with me when I go over, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) step aside for Danny.

MR. MANNING: Don't you worry. We don't have to worry about that. It is a strange thing, you are all so concerned about Danny. In the month of January you were all concerned about Danny. It was another Danny, but you were all concerned about Danny in the month of January. Where is Danny today? What is Danny calling about today? Who is Danny calling today? Everyone was worried and concerned about Danny. I sat down, because I am interested in politics and always have been, and watched the better part of the Liberal convention.

Madam Speaker, it is great to see you back in the Chair. It is great to see you.

Madam Speaker, I watched the Liberal convention. I used to flick back and forth to the cartoons. I wasn't sure sometimes which one I was watching, but I used to get mixed up when I would come back. I remember when the former Minister of Fisheries went up on the stage for that great handshake at the end. He thought he was Premier and, I am telling you, there are a lot of you who thought he was Premier, because the look on your faces, Madam Speaker, going up over those steps, it was just like someone was after dying belong to you.

AN HON. MEMBER: Did I look happy or was I worried?

MR. MANNING: You weren't as worried as you were on O'Brien's Hill last week, I tell you that. You were pretty worried, but you weren't as worried as you were on O'Brien's hill. If Mike had to get out of the room at you, I am telling you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: No, Sir. I would say, sit down and I will tell you how worried you were. If you were not worried, how come you sent an advance man up there to check out the lay of the land? Don't worry, I have friends. I say to the Minister of Mines and Energy, if you weren't worried how come you sent an advance man up there? I would say that Mike O'Brien - it would be worth a visit.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)

MR. MANNING: You are laughing. It is going to be interesting to see what transpires. The Minister of Mines and Energy, whose constituents are the O'Briens, look forward to them coming to explain their case. From what I can understand from my sources, their case got a good hearing from the minister. I applaud the minister on that; I have no problem with that. If the minister could talk to the minister down there and tell him to leave those two fine, elderly gentlemen alone on O'Brien's hill, we would all be happier in this Province.

Oh, no, the Minister of Environment had to find someone to pick on - two weeks on the job, boy, come on. I have to find someone to take on. So I will go up, two eighty-years-olds on O'Brien's hill, and take them on.

Come on, boy. Wake up, for God's sake. It is a shame on the Minister of Environment, to do that to these two fine gentlemen, but he got his reins hauled in.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: See, every time I get up he does that.

MR. MATTHEWS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I just want to say to the hon. member that if he has any concern as to the level of comfort and the level of confidence and the level of being well taken care of, that the constituents of St. John's North have, he has to look no further than right under his nose. The hon. the Member for St. John's West, who is my constituent, I think, is a picture, is a perfect example, of a constituent who is at peace with herself and is at peace with her member. She realizes every night when she goes to bed that she can sleep well, that she can sleep tight, and she knows full well that as a constituent of St. John's North she is in the best of hands, she will get the best of care, she will be afforded the greatest of courtesy. What I would ascribe to the hon. the Member of St. John's West, my very fair and wonderful constituent, I can assure the hon. member applies to all of the 12,000 members of St. John's North.

The people in the north are in good hands and I would ask the member not to worry too much with respect to their welfare in the context of the speech that he is making at the moment. Look no further than under your nose, Sir, and you will find and see perfect contentment and a well cared for constituent.

MADAM SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: I say to the Minister of Mines and Energy, I am glad, I am very happy, very pleased, that the Member for St. John's West can sleep at night, because there was a big concern over whether you could sleep at night a few weeks ago on that side of the House. If I remember the Premier correctly: I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I thought he was advising one of my ministers.

There is no one on our side of the House, there is no one working up in our office, that would cause me to lose sleep at night, and that is very comforting. You had to worry there about sleeping at night. I am sure the Member for St. John's West can sleep at night.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I can say one thing about our Danny, Madam Speaker: We want to have him. You have a Danny and you do not want him, but we want the one we have.

MR. SWEENEY: We have a choice.

MR. MANNING: You have no choice, not where you sit in the House, I say to the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace. To sit up in the nosebleed section and not to be on your feet demanding that great area of Carbonear-Harbour Grace, Port de Grave, be represented at the Cabinet table. You have no choice, you have no voice; you have nothing. You have no right to speak, if you are not going to stand up and fight for your constituents to have representation at the Cabinet table.

As I said, Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to see you back in your position. I am glad that they treated you with the utmost respect on that side of the House. We are pleased on this side. We have no argument with your appointment to Deputy Speaker.

I want to get back, if I could, to the Member for John's North, the Minister of Mines and Energy, and the fact that he is confident that the people of St. John's North have been treated fair and square. I do not argue that point, that the people of St. John's North have been treated very fair and square. What I wanted to highlight here today - they have been treated fair and square from the Minister of Mines and Energy - what I have proposed here today is that they were not being treated fair by the Minister of Environment. To go up and tell two elderly gentlemen on the top of O'Bien's hill that they might have to pay $500,000 a day because some oil spilled out in their property, and then to send a backhoe up there, that was on hold for four days before the Minister of Environment stepped in to do something, to send up a back digger and to tell them to dig a hole over behind the shed. The minister is the only man in the world who thinks that oil runs up hill, because behind the shed was up the hill. The oil came out and went down the hill and he sent the backhoe up to dig up the hill. Water does not run up hill, and I am sure oil is a heavier substance and that does not run up hill.

I tell you who should run up the hill, the Minister of Environment himself. He should go up and see firsthand the problems that are up there, and address the concerns.

I have to give credit where credit is due. The Minister of Mines and Energy, the member for that area, the member who represents the O'Brien brothers here in the House of Assembly, went up to see the O'Brien family. I will give credit where credit is due, but then there was no choice. The public opinions on the O'Brien family's side, on the O'Brien brothers side, they had no choice but to head up the hill, but at least he went up the hill.

AN HON. MEMBER: To fetch a pail of oil.

MR. MANNING: Yes, to fetch a pail of oil. He went up the hill, no more than what the Minister of Environment did. The Minister of Environment was there, like I said, three weeks in the job, had to take on somebody. I am fired up. I know more about this department than anybody else. I am here since 1992. Do you remember that, out in the lobby the other day? I know all about this department. I have to find someone to take on. Sure, dodge up O'Brien's hill and find two eighty-year-old men to take on. Shame on you, I say, Minister. Then you were sent with your tail between your legs and the O'Brien brothers were taken care of.

If I could get back for a minute to the Speech from the Throne, to say that we sat here the other day and we listened to the Speech from the Throne. We sat and listened to the plans, and we are not one bit impressed. This document - we wrote more than half of it. We are not impressed that you have taken our document and rewritten it, changed a few words.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, if you are not going to stand up and fight for your seat at the Cabinet table, don't be talking. It is the first time in forty years you haven't been at the Cabinet table, so unless you are going to get up and fight for that, stay calm.

All I say is that the Speech from the Throne is something that lays out the plans for the government. It lays out a framework for the next little while of what they are going to do, of what they are going to bring forward to this House, what they are going to bring forward to the people of this Province in relation to a plan.

While there is some good initiatives in this document, we hope, on this side of the House, that it is not just words. We hope, on this side of the House, that a Child Advocate answers to the people of this House of Assembly. We hope, on this side of the House, that there is meat put on the bones of the Child Advocate. We hope that the Ombudsman that is appointed, that the criteria is stringent and is something that we can, as I said, put meat on the bones, that the Ombudsman answers to the people of this Province. We are not looking forward to an Ombudsman being appointed here. We are not looking to a Child Advocate being appointed, that one of the criteria is that they are a Liberal delegate at the Glacier in January.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: No, I say to the member; that is your way of doing things, but then you only had a short time up there, and I have to give credit again where credit is due; you were a good caretaker. As all people who do what they are told, and do a good job, you will be rewarded. You will be rewarded, and I look forward to meeting the hon. minister somewhere in a few months down the road, and saying: Good afternoon, Mr. Senator. I look forward to it, Sir.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I can see some color instead of red, some other color going into that House in Ottawa. I look forward to that. I look forward to the member being put in the (inaudible).

Once again, I have to make a comment. I was very surprised when I turned on the radio and I found that the Member for Bellevue had finally made it to the Cabinet table. I was happy that the Member for Bellevue had made it to the Cabinet table. I was delighted, because I would not want to see anybody spend thousands of dollars on suits and never get to wear them. The Member for Bellevue is finally getting to wear his new suits.

AN HON. MEMBER: He is well-suited for the job?

MR. MANNING: I would say that the Member for Bellevue is well-suited for the job. I was very pleased to hear his announcement because you are well-suited for the job. You are well-suited, with fifteen suits home in the closet. I wouldn't say there is anybody else here better suited for the position of minister than you are. We were pleased to hear it on this side. The people of Bellevue deserve a voice at the Cabinet table, and we are very pleased to see you there.

I would say to the Member for Bellevue that you might want to buy a couple of new ones, because some of those colors were gone out in the 1980s. Some of those colors went out in the late 1980s.

Madam Speaker, if I could get back to the Speech from the Throne, I look at the comment made about the fishery and the fact that fish landing in 2000 were on par with 1999. "In 2000, landed values increased to $585 million, up by $79 million or 16 per cent from 1999...."

There is no doubt about it that the fishery in this Province is worth more today in dollars than it was in the past. The problem that we are finding with the fishery is the amount of land jobs, we will call them, are not there because of the fact that we have a fair amount of the product, a large amount of the product, especially in crab and shrimp, being moved out of this Province unprocessed. As sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, the meat is taken out of the shell somewhere. They do not eat shell and all, so the meat is taken out of the shell somewhere. All I am asking is that we take a different approach, that we look at the possibility of taking some of the meat out of the shell on this side of the Atlantic, on this side where we would create jobs in this Province, and hopefully we could address that.

Madam Speaker, also in the Speech from the Thorne there was some discussion on tourism. Once again, we know we have a growing industry in tourism. We were pleased on this side of the House, again - I was pleased, I don't know about everybody else - to see the member for the Stephenville area appointed as the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, that department. We were very happy with it. The fact that the member has been around the House for quite some time, he brings a fair bit of experience to the Cabinet table, and with a growing industry like tourism we were very pleased to see the member put forward. What we were surprised about was that you weren't as excited as we were at Government House when the member was appointed to his post.

Another concern that was brought forward was in regard to health care. As usual, health care is always a concern.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: I say to the Member for Bellevue, I won't be in the backbenches as long as he was. A few moments ago I said I was very pleased that you are in your new position, and I am. The man has been around the House a long time, a fair amount of experience. We are very pleased and we look forward to some new initiatives. We look forward to the member helping the people of the Province in his new role as Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. We do not have any problems with that. We have concerns, but we are not as concerned as we are about the Minister of Environment, but I will get back to that.

Madam Speaker, if I could make a few comments in my cluing up remarks about health care. There is no doubt about it, we have said here time and time again, we have said here as Members of the Opposition, as members of government have said, that health care is the number one concern. It is the number one concern with a lot of people in this Province. It is the number one concern with almost every man, woman and child. I have two aging parents myself. My mother is in the hospital as I speak here today. There is a concern with health care in this Province. There is a concern that there are not enough human resources. There is a concern that there is not enough capital investment. There is a concern that there is not enough real strategic planning going on with health care in this Province.

We certainly hope, over the next couple of months, to address some of the concerns that have been raised with us as Members of the House of Assembly. We look forward over the next couple of months to addressing some of the concerns that have been raised with us as the PC Party as we move into a phase of preparing for the next election.

Madam Speaker, I was very pleased to hear, on community-based health care, that the Province is looking at some way of increasing the remuneration that home care workers receive, and we wait again for the details. As the Leader of the Opposition stated the other day, the devil is in the details, and we wait for the details of this here, certainly as it relates to home care workers in the Province and making sure that they receive remuneration for their hard work and the very vital role they play in the health care system in this Province. We look forward to the details on that.

Once again, as we clue into the education of our children - the Minister of Education was on her feet today making some comments and some plans in education - we look forward, on this side of the House, and the critic for education waits with bated breath, for the details of what the education plans are for this Province.

On the last page - and I would like to clue up if I could with this - it says: ambitious work plan, our hopes, dreams, aspirations are to be fulfilled. Well, I am very sorry to disappoint you. We, on this side, intend to dash your dreams and dash your hopes over the next several months. We, on this side, intend to put a plan forward to the people of this Province, to prepare for the next provincial election. We, on this side of the House, plan to show that this is only a reprint, that this is only a by-product of the Blue Book, and over the next couple of months we intend to put that forward. Over the next couple of months we plan to take this book and take every other piece of information that comes before this House of Assembly, go through it and make sure that this government lives up to straight answers and real solutions.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. MATTHEWS: You have to go over there now. You have to face your leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, you used to be over here and we threw you out of it, I say to the Minister of Mines and Energy, and you are not coming back either. You are allowed to come for a visit. You are on a day pass or a ten or fifteen minute pass only, sir. Now, do not start me again. I laid it out here one day when all the real and true Liberals on that side of the House - I was going to sit down seven or eight times and do you know what they did? They kept saying: Oh, tell us it all. They really wanted to know all of the history of the Minister of Mines and Energy. Do not start today. We will have lots of opportunity over the next several months to deal with it.

Madam Speaker, it is a privilege to stand today to respond to this government - I should not say this government but the new First Minister, the Premier of the Province - to his first Throne Speech. No matter what he says, no matter what he does, no matter what happens in this Legislature - and there was an example of it today - there is a significant difference between what was said in this Throne Speech, vis-à-vis Voisey's Bay, as compared to what was said in 1999.

For the record, because this is going to become an evermore important debate, this government has won two elections, 1996 and 1999, on the promise of delivering to the people of this Province the right deal, the only deal. I intend to show, over the course of this sitting - and our homework is done, our research is done, we have it here - I am going to begin today to show what this government has said and what they are doing right now.

To start off, let me say this - I want to read for the record, that in the Throne Speech of March 16, which was four-and-a-half weeks after the 1999 election, then Premier, Brian Tobin, supported by every member, I suppose, at least publically, on the government benches, had the Lieutenant Governor sit in the Speaker's Chair of this House and read the following Throne Speech. When it came to Voisey's Bay, here is what was said. These are the government's words. This was the government's stand in 1999.

"A loud and clear message has been sent to INCO by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador: there will be no mine at Voisey's Bay unless the ore is processed in this Province. That is the choice. It is INCO's to make. My Government's position - the position of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador - will not waver."

Today we saw, not a wavering but a significant shift away from that position and outside in the scrum area with all of the Provincial media asking the Premier that question, here is what he said outside that he would not say in here, that he did not have the backbone or the courage to say in here, that what possibly they could be looking at is an equivalent amount.

AN HON. MEMBER: What!

MR. E. BYRNE: An equivalent amount. That was said today, after question period, out in the scrum area in front of the cameras.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you serious?

MR. E. BYRNE: Absolutely serious.

An equivalent amount of ore: now, what does that mean?

MR. SULLIVAN: When did he say that? Today, did he?

MR. E. BYRNE: Absolutely. Fifteen minutes ago in the precincts of the House, out in front of the cameras. That is what he said.

What does equivalent amount mean? Does it mean that it will come from somewhere else? Does it mean, the statements of this government, each one of them to a person over the last two-and-a-half years, that there will be no semiprocessed or unprocessed material leaving this Province, does it mean that now it will?

Each one of you, in this House, before this debate is over will be put on the record, by members here and by myself, on this issue. There is no escaping the record of the House. There is no escaping the public record, where it has been defined, where it has been articulated and where it has been annunciated, particularly by former Premiers, on which this government sought a mandate.

Before I get to that, lets all be clear. In January 1999, this government lead by former Premier Brian Tobin, went before the microphones in this building, in their caucus room, and asked one question. He asked it to the people of the Province. He said: Who is it that you wish to negotiate Voisey's Bay? Who is it that you wish to negotiate on the Lower Churchill negotiations? Is it me or is it the Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party or the leader of the New Democratic Party of Newfoundland and Labrador? That is the question that he asked.

During the course of that campaign, Madam Speaker, I traveled the Province. I was in thirty three or thirty four districts in twenty one days and during the course of that campaign, about half way through, here is what happened. I know it happened because I caused it to happen. At the opening of the Member for Gander's headquarters - the Premier was there, I think he made six or seven visits there - but at the opening of her headquarters, the official opening, he was asked the following. I will read it verbatim. These are not my words, these are not paraphrasing of what happened. This is the official transcript of what took place during that time.

"There are more indications the provincial government is softening its stance on Voisey's Bay." This is from a CKXD Radio(Kixx-Country, Gander) "In a recent interview with CBC television, mines minister Roger Grimes said government would allow some of the ore to be processed outside of the Province if Inco met certain conditions." He basically said the same thing outside the Legislature today.

"Grimes says the public may see it as a major policy change but suggested that the "no smelter/ no mine" stance didn't necessarily mean that "every spoonful" of nickel concentrate from Voisey's Bay would be processed in the Province."

MR. J. BYRNE: That is when he started to change the policy. That is when he started.

MR. E. BYRNE: It began then.

I have a chronology of events of every public statement made inside this Legislature, made outside this Legislature, by each and every member in this House. Anyone of you who have made a statement on it, we have it. This is some of the public material, backup material. We do not have access to all of it, but what we do.

Let's recap for a second. Roger Grimes said it did not necessarily mean that every spoonful of nickle concentrate from Voisey's Bay would be processed in the Province. Here is where it gets really interesting, I say to my hon. colleagues:

But when asked the question by KIXX-Country reporter Dave Brophy during the last election campaign, that wasn't the answer given by Newfoundland Premier Brian Tobin. That was not the answer, I say to the member, my colleague.

I will read it to you, because I know the member for Bell Island engaged you. Forget about him for a moment. This is very important:

But when asked the question by reporter Dave Brophy during the last election campaign, that was not the answer given by Newfoundland Premier Brian Tobin.

Here was the question, at the Member for Gander's headquarters. David Brophy says: You have consistently said, Premier, that `no smelter, no mine at Voisey's Bay'. But you haven't said whether or not the amount of ore to be processed in the Province is on the negotiating table. Is it the government's policy - he asked directly - to have all of Voisey's Bay ore processed here, or is it government's policy to allow some of it to be shipped...?

He couldn't even get the word out before the then Premier interrupted and said: Hold it, hold on now, let's be clear Mr. Brophy. It is our policy to have all of the ore processed in the Province. But beyond that, we're not even prepared to discuss any alternatives or options with Inco or with anybody else ‘til first of all Inco moves formally away from the position that they took on this earlier this year - last year, in fact - when they said that their position was for a project that would see a mine-mill in Labrador and the ore shipped entirely out of the Province.

Tobin made the comments in January at the official opening of Gander MHA Sandra Kelly's campaign headquarters.

During the leadership, during the leader's debate during that election, this issue raised itself yet again. The then Premier of the Province was unequivocally clear then: there will be no mine, no smelter in this Province, none whatsoever.

MR. J. BYRNE: Who said that?

MR. E. BYRNE: Premier Brian Tobin speaking for the government.

I will say this, that there are at least nine or ten members that sit on that side of the House today for one reason only, because of the coat tails of one Brian Tobin. If it wasn't for him they would not be sitting in this House.

That would normally be enough evidence, but there is a lot more. There is quite a bit more, and I am going to get to the chronology of events surrounding Voisey's Bay and how this government has willfully won two elections, knowingly doing something behind the backs of the people of the Province, saying one thing publicly. The Premier said yesterday, he gave his definition of what it means to be Liberal. I have come to realize what that definition is because I have seen it, I have debated it, front and center. It is to say whatever needs to be said at the time to ensure that you get the maximum amount of votes, and then when you gain power, do what you have to do even if it is something completely different. That is the history federally and provincially.

Let me get back to it. That would normally be enough evidence, I say. Now, on March 19, when that Throne Speech was given, the issue began to raise itself again in the Legislature in Question Period. On May 19, I think there were at least sixteen to eighteen Question Periods in a row, but one in particular on May 19 stands out, and again this is extremely important.

The Speaker recognized me in my position as Leader of the Opposition and I asked this question, "Mr. Speaker, nobody in this Province, no matter how you want to spin it out, is prepared to see high-grading." That is a semi-processed form of ore. "That is clear. Not only from your point of view, not only from our point of view, but more importantly from the people of the Province's point of view. It is very clear!"

"Secondly, it is also very clear that the questions this afternoon are to clear up what is perceived to be a change in government policy." That is the question that was asked the leader of the government.

"Let me ask you this", I said to the Premier, who spoke for the government and every one of them over there. All of them were in their seats when this question was asked. "Is government still fully committed to 100 per cent of the ore being mined, refined and processed in this Province? Yes or no?"

It is a very straightforward question. Unlike the current Premier, who is on a public relations campaign, so to speak, about trying to bill himself as the leader of a government that is going to give straight answers and real solutions - that collapsed here this afternoon in Question Period, because I asked him the same question - the former Premier said, "Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is the position of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Was that the answer that this Premier gave today? I wish there were cameras here today, I say to the Government House Leader. Let's forget about the fall. Let's ask the Speaker and everybody else: Is there some way we can get them in here by next week, even on a temporary basis? Let's get them in here next week. Let's not wait until October or November. Let's get a feed in here right away. I dare say the Premier's answers might change a little bit by then. He talks about cleaning up, and cleaning up the decorum of the House. That was the position on May 19.

On November 16, this was the time when negotiations were extremely close to being concluded. This was the time in the Legislature, on November 16, 1999, when the former Premier was not in the House. I think some of my colleagues will recall - the ones who were here - during that fall of 1999 when there was an on-again, off-again sort of approach to negotiations, we were standing.... Here is some of the language that was going on. The then Minister of Mines and Energy, now the Premier, saying: No, we are not negotiating with Inco. We are having informal talks with them.

So, it was not formal; it was informal. Then, subsequent questions in Question Period at that time, because the Premier of the Province at that time purposely stayed out of here, and for good reason. It was a good strategy because he did not want to be nailed down. He wanted to let Roger the dodger, at the time, do the negotiations, take the heat and feel the pulse of the people of the Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Absolutely, but here was the response during that time that we were close in negotiations: Subsequent questions in Question Period and pressure by the Opposition uncovered, finally, that there were not informal talks - but if you want to call them informal talks - informal talks were going on, on a day-to-day basis for three months. Informal talks, we were told, were going on for three months. Then everyone can remember the picture, the Minister of Mines and Energy, now the Premier, CBC and NTV cameras projecting to the rest of the Province in everybody's living room with his briefcase in one hand, his suit bag over his shoulder. He was gone to Toronto for the eleventh-hour negotiations, and what happened? I know what happened. Then Premier Brian Tobin met him in Toronto, met with executives of Inco - these are their words, not mine. That is a matter of public record that they met. Something happened that weekend, that they had a deal. It was on the table. It is not unlike what happened, what we are negotiating right now - to say that there are additional negotiations. The premise from which these negotiations are moving forward is not the premise on which you sought and got a mandate from the people. It is not. No matter how you want to worm around it, wiggle it, giggle it, do whatever, you all know it is not. You cannot stand up and say it. There are only two members who did say it.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: I will say this: there are only two members on that side of the House who called a spade a spade: the Member for Port de Grave and the Member for Humber West; and where are they today?

AN HON. MEMBER: Gone.

AN HON. MEMBER: One is in hospital.

MR. SULLIVAN: Who is in hospital?

MR. E. BYRNE: I am talking collectively, generally. In the last three months one of those members categorically, in a televised debate, said: Come on, Roger, you wanted to ship ore out of the Province.

Now, when that took place, he was the current Minister of Mines and Energy. The other individual, in a publicized debate, said: Brian Tobin was tough on Inco, but I was tougher.

Neither one of those individuals are here to speak for themselves, and I will respect that record, and I want to be clear, I am not trying to reference people who are not in the House. I am trying to reference the fact that there were two members on that side of the House who did speak up in the last several months.

Each and every one of those people over there, members in that seat, in some part - some of them do not owe it at all, but a lot of them do, in some part or in whole - owe their seat in this House to that stance and to former Premier Brian Tobin.

On November 16, 1999, while this was getting very close to a deal being struck, I asked the question yet again, page 5 in Hansard, November 16, 1999, Inco questions. It took up twenty-two minutes out of thirty minutes oral Question Period that day. Here is the question. Premier Brian Tobin's response contains it all. It even contains the question I asked.

"Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is - I can't figure out why he is in the mood he is in." Had he been here, he might have figured it out, but he wasn't here. "The Province is growing at double the national rate; we have kept our books in line; we have reduced our taxes, the first time in the history of the Province since Confederation. It is the second major tax decrease after a sales tax decrease. Our prospects are strong."

Here is the statement, November 16, 1999. "Inco is coming back to recognize that there will not be a mine/mill development unless there is 100 per cent processing of concentrate..." That is the important statement - of concentrate in this Province - because some of the processes that have been recommended by this government, or some of the options, I should say - let me correct myself - that this government have looked at and considered have been a semi-processed form of nickel being smelted in the Province, and that semi-processed ore being sent out to other places like Sudbury or Thompson, Manitoba, to be further processed.

That is why this statement is critical, because the Premier of the Province - and no matter what any of you hon members say opposite, he did speak for you. He did speak for the government. It was the position that all of you maintained when he said, "Inco is coming back to recognize that there will not be a mine/mill development unless there is 100 per cent processing of concentrate in this Province. They are putting on the table a proposal as to how that can be achieved. The Minister of Mines and Energy received that proposal in general form yesterday...." - meaning November 15. "The Province, as I had said in the paper - you should read the full article..." - he was lecturing me on how I should read the full article - "...is going to assess that. We do not know at this stage whether or not that constitutes the basis of a formal negotiation, but if it does - if we come to the conclusion it does - we will announce that."

That is very clear. The Premier stood in the House today and wished his new - this is what is interesting. That is why I say to the Government House Leader, let's get the cameras in here ASAP. Then, any person who wants to see this debate over the next several months will be able to see it immediately, and judge for themselves.

Now the Premier today, in response to questions, said to all of us, I guess: The new Minister of Mines and Energy, I hope that he can be more successful than I was. I hope the obstacles can be removed from the process so that he will be more successful than I was.

Do you know what that is code for? It is code. That is a parliamentary code.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I understand, as Leader of the Opposition, that I have an hour. If I sit down, you can clarify that or straighten it up for me.

MR. SPEAKER: You are correct. I made a mistake.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That is parliamentary code. When you are here long enough, experience does count for something. Here is what it is parliamentary code for. You see, the Premier already knows that the obstacles that he faced are not the obstacles that this Minister of Mines and Energy will face. Here is why: When he was the Minister of Mines and Energy, he faced a number of obstacles. Let me say what they were. Premier Brian Tobin was the big obstacle. The former Minister of Mines and Energy, the former Member for St. Barbe, Chuck Furey, was the second obstacle. The former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Member for Port de Grave, John Efford, was third obstacle. The Minister of Finance at the time, the Member for Humber West, Paul Dicks, was fourth obstacle.

Those were the obstacles which that Premier, when he was the Minister of Mines and Energy, faced. He knows already. That is the code, you see, I say to members opposite, that is the type of parliamentary language and code that, when the cameras get in here, we are going to be able to explain, that we are going to be able to put forward. People are going to see it for themselves, because in the age that we live in it does not take three weeks or four weeks, or three months, like it did twenty-five years ago, to get information into this place out to people. When the cameras come here, if it is done properly, they will have it as we speak it. Those are the obstacles that the Premier talked about.

This Premier knows, I say to my colleagues, that his Mines and Energy Minister is not going to face those obstacles because he has eliminated them. He has eliminated those obstacles. The premise on which this government won and got the right and the privilege to be a government has now changed. The directions given to the current Minister of Mines and Energy from the throne of the eighth floor are different from the directions that were given to him when he was the Minister of Mines and Energy.

That is parliamentary code for "the water on the beans has changed"; things are about to change. When the Premier, who will not admit in here in a straightforward, forthright manner, and goes outside after Question Period today and talks about the equivalent amount of ore, that is code for either unprocessed or semi-processed ore leaving the Province. I understand that something else is on the table.

Here is the next big one, I say to members opposite, and this may come as a surprise to some. If people will recall, in 1997 the notion of a copper smelter was a hotly debated issue in this House. At the time, we had proposed that there was enough ore, based upon our research - copper within the Voisey's Bay find - that would justify a copper smelter in the Province. The then Minister of Mines and Energy, the former Member for St. John's West, Dr. Rex Gibbons, got up and said: No, there is no justification for it whatsoever.

We continued to press. As we continued to press, we asked them a fundamental question: Upon what basis, upon what financial analysis or study, do you suggest that such a smelter is not viable? He could not answer it. Do you know why? Because there was no study. The next day in the Legislature - I think it was the next day, or a couple of days after - he announced a company that was going to do a feasibility study on the notion of a copper smelter in the Province. I contend to this day that a copper smelter still is viable. Is that on the table, Minister? The notion of a copper smelter with ore and copper coming in from somewhere else around the globe? Is that on the table in discussions?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Ah, ha! Hold on, now. It is clean slate. It that on the table? I can say this to you: If a copper smelter is viable, with what is there and what can be shipped in, then it should be treated separate and apart from what these negotiations are about, because if it is viable, it is viable; if it is not, it is not.

The other side of it is, when you look at Voisey's Bay Nickle Company and Inco's own statements, and they have said in their own reports there is a sense around - I mean, we have to rid ourselves of this backward, backwater, outdated, colonial mentality, because that is the biggest impediment to us moving forward. There is a sense among some quarters in the Province that: look, boys, if they don't do it now, they are going to Goro, New Caledonia, they are going to go somewhere else, this is going to be off the table for wherever in the future. This fear factor that we have that is so much a part of the mentality of the past but cannot, in any way, shape or form - if we are going to move forward and progress as a Province and as a people we have to rid ourselves of that, because that is a stumbling block. Can you imagine! Inco's own statements.

AN HON. MEMBER: What?

MR. E. BYRNE: Would you like me to read it to you? You robbed everything else off the Blue Book. If you would rob that I would stand up and applaud you. It is as simple as that, I say to the minister. Would you like me to send you over a copy? I have it here. Not a problem. Would you like it?

MR. MATTHEWS: Send it on over, boy. I get all kinds of junk mail.

MR. E. BYRNE: What is the issue? In Inco's own statements recently, here is what they said. I am paraphrasing but I am not wrong.

AN HON. MEMBER: Be careful what you paraphrase.

MR. E. BYRNE: Not a problem. I have never gotten in trouble by paraphrasing, if you do your homework, I say to the minister. That is what all this is about, you see.

Voisey's Bay, 1992 to present, selected backdrop documents referred to in the index. That is the index, everything you and any other member has said on Voisey's Bay, in this House and outside. Voisey's Bay, 1992 to present, index in chronological order. I will get to that shortly. I have lots of time. My homework is done. I am not going to get in trouble by paraphrasing what I am about to paraphrase.

Inco said that there is enough nickle, that it is so rich, that the other metals contained - just listen to this! - that the other metals contained in that find, once refined and sold on the marketplace, in their estimation, will actually ensure that the cost of processing or mining the nickle will be zero. I mean, that is such a significant statement. From our point of view, we are going to consider today - you know, we have seen so many political hoodwinks in the Province. Lower Churchill is the most contemporary one.

AN HON. MEMBER: The Sprung Green House is another.

MR. E. BYRNE: I will say this to you about the Sprung Green House: when members in this Legislature wanted information under the current Freedom of Information Act you got it, all that you needed. We had it.

Mr. Speaker, that is Voisey's Bay's own statements.

Mr. Speaker, if you would indulge me for a moment: Could you let me know how much time I have left, because I want to get a sort of idea of where I want to end today and where I want to begin.

MR. SPEAKER: You have thirty minutes.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you.

I say to the minister, the best thing you could do would be to deliver on what you and your government want a mandate on, and that is to deliver what you said you were going to deliver. If you do that, who could not stand up and applaud you. There have been times in this House, absolutely, there have been many times in this House, when this Assembly has put aside its partisan differences and we have stood up and applauded government on many occasions. The record speaks for that.

Now, I say to the new Finance Minister, your experience has been somewhat coloured by the Member for Ferryland. So I understand the backdrop from which you are coming.

AN HON. MEMBER: He has done his job.

MR. E. BYRNE: Oh, absolutely! He has done his job and very effectively, extremely effectively.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: No, definitely not.

As the critic for Health and Community Services in this Province I think he will go down, at least in the last twenty years, as being the best critic ever for health, in pointing out the weaknesses in our health care system and pointing out what government, not only failed to do, but what they would not tell anyone else they were going to do.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Hold on now, this is the same Premier and the same minister, who are walking and travelling around the Province now touting the notions of transparency and accountability, then stood for three years in the House and would not release the Atkinson's Report. When they finally did release selected parts of it, it was that outdated it did not mean anything anyway. There is a history here.

Let me get back to Voisey's Bay. Just to put it in perspective, Mr. Speaker, I have some selected quotes, public statements. Will I do one from the Gander convention? I will do one from former Premier Brian Tobin at the Liberal convention. Listen to this. The current Premier says what was in the Liberal Red Book. Just listen to this, this was at their own convention. October 24, 1999, at their convention, and I quote: Tobin, at the Liberal's annual convention in Gander said he expects a proposal from Inco within weeks. Inco wants a deal by Christmas, he said. Tobin reaffirmed his no smelter, no mine position. Tobin said it could be completed in a week if Inco proposed local refining. He said if Inco comes forward with a plan to take concentrate - here is the word again, concentrate - oh, an extremely important word. This word, concentrate, raised its head as a trial balloon politically, all in the fall of 1999. Very important. Very, very important, I say to the Government House Leader.

Let me continue. For the record, again, concentrate is a semi process. It is not fully processed. It is not 100 per cent processed.

MR. SULLIVAN: They can't seem to concentrate on the one answer, they can't.

MR. E. BYRNE: No, or the one mandate or what their mandate was, but here are the words. He said: If Inco comes forward with a plan to take concentrate from Labrador and process it within the Province - very important - then Inco will have itself a deal. He was that unequivocal, that clear, that strong. He went on to say: We are not interested in talking about a Voisey's Bay development unless, as part of that development, there is a plan and a means. Now, this is even more clear. How anybody could misinterpret! Just listen to this. It is even more clear in his statement. I am quoting now: We are not interested in talking about a Voisey's Bay development unless, as part of that development, there is a plan and a means to convert concentrate ore into a finished nickel product.

Every one of those members at that convention; the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, the new Minister of Environment, the Minister of Labour, the Minister of Government Services and Lands, the new Minister for Post-Secondary and Youth Services, the Minister of Justice, the new Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and House Leader, the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Mines and Energy, the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace - I can't say Trinity North because he wasn't elected then - Mr. Andersen, the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair, the current member, then Premier of The Straits & White Bay North, the Minister for Tourism at the time, the former Member for St. Barbe, at that statement - I will read it again for the record. When Mr. Brian Tobin, the Premier of the Province, stood up at his own convention and said - and I am quoting here directly, not paraphrasing, I say to the current minister. Quoting directly the leader of the government: We are not interested in talking about a Voisey's Bay development unless as part of that development there is a plan and a means to convert concentrate ore into a finished nickel project. Every one of those members that I just mentioned, and others I forgot, were the first ones to their feet in Gander with a standing ovation for that Premier. I ask them today, where are they today?

I say to my colleague from Cape St. Francis, does it remind you of another debate that took place in this House?

MR. J. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, I think it is. Does it remind you of that? In some ways it does. Even more important, every member - contained in these documents we spent six months doing. Contained in these documents right here. Any member who has said anything about Voisey's Bay in any paper, in any R&B paper, on any radio station, in this Legislature or outside this Legislature, the record is right here, Mr. Speaker. Every single last word of it, and if somebody does not believe me I am going to give you some evidence of what we have. We are going to continue to put their feet to the political fire where it belongs right now because they are trying to worm away from the position, from the premise, from the foundation on which they got elected and which the people of the Province gave them a mandate to govern. When they move away from that - I said it during the Throne Speech and I assured the current Premier then - we will hold them to account.

Let me get a little bit current. I will not go back to 1992, yet; 1996, when the former Premier came. Start with January 2, 1997; several proposals to power an Argentia smelter/refinery, two using the Long Harbour phosphoreus plant, one to beef up Holyrood, one for Come By Chance. Now this is an important matter. It may not seem like an important matter but the issue of power to this development is extremely important. Minister, how do you plan to power this development if it ever occurs? There is only about 100 megawatts left on the Island; if that. That is if they dam everything; Big falls in Corner Brook, Torrent River on the Northern Peninsula, Terra Nova River. If they continue with Hydro damming up those rivers that are left. Getting extra capacity - that is hydro power now - because it is going to require power to drive this thing. Anyway, that is a debate for another day. It is a huge issue, and raises the question: If there is a hydro-metallurgic process and if it does work - and lets give them the benefit of the doubt that all the ore and ore concentrate will be processed here. Are they going to have access to enough energy to do it from Argentia?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) Labrador.

MR. E. BYRNE: We have recall there, don't we? Recall provisions exist there.

Anyway, January 6, 1997; Voisey's Bay nickel has awarded the project management to the construction contract for the mine and mill (inaudible). Fair enough.

Again, January 1997; copper inventories are seen as staying low. Despite rising production suppliers worry they will not be able to keep up with demand. Smelter capacity is not growing fast enough to keep up with demand. This was the whole notion of not putting a copper smelter here, because that was talked about vigorously at the time. Maybe behind the scenes it is being talked about now. You never know.

MR. MATTHEWS: You have fifteen minutes left to (inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Oh, I have more than that left, a lot more than that left. I don't think I am restricted on the amount of times I can get up on address and reply, am I?

 

MR. MATTHEWS: Don't misunderstand me, I am not getting bored. It is all very interesting.

MR. E. BYRNE: 1997; Carbonear wants part of the action of the Argentia smelter. Do you remember the 1996 election? That smelter and refinery was going everywhere. Remember? It was on wheels. It was going in the Bay St. George area. Baie Verte was an option. White Bay was being looked at as an option. Labrador West was an option. The (inaudible) was an option. I don't know if there was ever any region in the Province - the only place that was not considered, I think, was the Member for St. John's East cabin down in Tickle Harbour. It was probably the only place that was not considered at the time. Boy, there was some optimism during those times. How times change.

On January 10, 1997, the former Member for Placentia & St. Mary's was appointed Legislative advisor to the Minister of Mines and Energy, Rex Gibbons. Do you remember that?

AN HON. MEMBER: Bud Hulan promised to fill the seat. You missed that one.

MR. E. BYRNE: Just a second, now. He promised he was going to bring snow down there and everything.

MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, but he was more `electable' than Kevin, so he would run there (inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Very important.

On March 11, 1997, it is interesting, you talk about Throne Speeches. This is the actual quote from the Throne Speech: "In the past year, My Government has ensured that the Voisey's Bay smelter and refinery and the offshore oil trans-shipment facility will be built in this province."

Happy Valley-Goose Bay, a press release here, April 25: Scoping sessions with the Environmental Assessment Panel in Voisey's Bay about: What are the environmental considerations? What will take place there? How will that unfold? How many people will be involved? Will there be adjacency questions in terms of employment opportunities involved?

We have to get to the real juice here now. There is some interesting stuff here. There is a lot more coming. Does everybody remember the Hatch report?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: That is the report that came after the minister said it would not be viable. Mr. Speaker, look -

MR. SULLIVAN: Put it back in the shell?

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, the Hatch report (inaudible) the hatch.

Mr. Speaker, the point of all this - the Minister of Mines and Energy asked me earlier: What is the point of what you are talking about today? The point is simply this. It can be summed up very clearly. This new Premier's arguments did not win the day at the Cabinet table in November, 1999. That is what went on. They did not win the day. He came back with a deal in his pocket that he felt confident he could sell, but the former Premier, Mr. Brian Tobin, felt that he could not, for all of the reasons that I have outlined here today, for all of the reasons, because of his public statements, that it was on behalf of the government that he had a position and he stuck with it. The point now is that those obstacles that were in the way of the Minister of Mines and Energy at the time, now the Premier, have been removed. The proponents or objectors to that deal put a stop to it. Internally it was done and shortly thereafter, as they say, the rest is history, isn't it? It really is.

Another interesting point that was pointed out to me recently: Since 1989 the Ministers of Mines and Energy have been the following: Dr. Rex Gibbons, the Premier, Chuck Furey, the Minister of Mines and Energy, the former Member for St. Barbe, the Member for Humber West, Mr. Paul Dicks. How many are those? Five? Four of those five, with the exception of the Premier, all supported other candidates during the Liberal leadership over this issue. I mean, it is pretty significant.

It is one thing for an opposition to stand up and accuse, or to make the accusation that a minister or a Premier is moving in a certain direction, but it is quite another when you have two Cabinet colleagues vying for the top leadership post in the Province and, during a televised public debate - they have been colleagues for over ten years, at the Cabinet table together for about eight - looks one in the face and says: Come on now, Roger, you wanted to ship ore out of the Province.

There is a lot at stake here. Some may say, those who are of smaller minds - and I saw some evidence of that today - would say there is a lot at stake for the PC Party of Newfoundland and Labrador if this government reaches a good deal. They are wrong. They are absolutely wrong.

There are others who will say there is a lot at stake for the new Premier and his government if they do not sign the right deal. That goes without saying with any government; but what is at stake is the future of the people of the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: That is what is at stake. That is the real debate.

If we want to get into accusing each other of cheap politics and all of that sort of stuff, fair enough, but the people outside of this Legislature, we do not give them enough credit. They are a lot smarter and they are ahead of us in this Legislature more often on most issues, but they are keenly interested in this one.

They are aware and they know what has been promised to them since 1996. They know that this government sought a mandate on that issue. They know that they gave this government the mandate they sought on this issue, and they also know that they are not going to accept anything less than what this government gave them.

When you think about the statements that have been made just in the past few weeks - the current Premier says publicly in a press conference with his Minister of Mines and Energy: I am not going to sign any deal that cannot be explained. What does that mean? This is the individual now who is going to coin himself as giving straight answers to everybody, but what does that mean? Anything can be explained. The real question is: Is he going to sign a deal different than the premise he sought a mandate on?

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot say that as a team we were elected when at least nine or ten of them owe their very existence in this Legislature to that position and to former Premier Brian Tobin. You cannot say that we have a mandate unless you are going to carry out that mandate as it was given, as you asked for. Any change from that mandate, Mr. Speaker, and then, in my view, as I said during the Throne Speech, they will have the legal right to continue to govern, there is no question about that, but do they have the political right to continue to govern? That is the edge of the sword that the Cabinet, the Premier, and that entire caucus are walking right now.

Mr. Speaker, with that, my few introductory remarks on this very important issue, I am going to sit down and let other members have an opportunity to stand in their place and talk about what their position is with respect to Address in Reply.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take a few minutes this afternoon to talk about the Speech from the Throne. Before I get into what I really want to talk about today, first of all, I would be very negligent in my duties if I did not welcome two new colleagues to the House -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: - who sit on this side of the House. Contrary to all the helicopters that flew in, contrary to all the ministers who flocked in, contrary to all the members who went to supper down there, there were enough Cabinet ministers one day in St. Anthony they could have had a Cabinet meeting. Then, in all the crowd who flew in on Monday, the day before the election, they all got off like sheep, followed the then Premier to the hotel for supper, and then went out into the community and every house that had a blue sign or a blue picture in its window, in they went, knocking on the door, saying: Get rid of that, boy, get rid of that!

AN HON. MEMBER: They were attracted to Mr. Trevor Taylor as much as much as the rest of the people were.

MR. FRENCH: I believe they were. Yes!

It is very interesting, Mr. Speaker, to find out that those blue signs stayed up. They did not come down. The signs stayed up. As a matter of fact, some long-standing residents of those communities, because I had the opportunity to be in both during the last two provincial by-elections, thank goodness at this time, or at that particular point in time, we were no longer going to be bought with our own money. Our own money was not going to buy us any more. We had ladies out with shovels, shoveling snow so they could get down deep enough to cut brush, to groom another trail for ski-dooing. That is what they were at. They promised one of the teams down there $10,000. I fully support that team certainly being offered the money, because I believe in my heart and soul that we, at this time, and at no time since I have been elected to this Legislature, do we ever put enough money back into sport and recreation in this Province. The only thing I can look at is the money that we have taken out.

I found it very strange earlier this afternoon to see the Member for Trinity North sitting in the last seat in the front row. I don't know if he realizes who owns the last seat in the front row to my left, because I can assure him, as my colleague did when he was up speaking, the fellow that he owes his seat to, if he had been around here today, believe you me, the Member for Trinity North would not have sat in that seat. He would not have been allowed to go handy to that seat.

It saddens me a bit this afternoon to learn that the member is ill at this time. I understand, from one of the gentlemen on the other side, that he may have been in hospital. If he is out of hospital, I am glad of that and I am glad to see that he is up and around.

Mr. Speaker, there are a few other points I would like to touch on today.

AN HON. MEMBER: He had knife wounds (inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: One of my colleagues made a joke, maybe he is in getting checked upon for knife wounds.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of municipalities in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that are under boil orders for their drinking water. During the last by-election, I spent some time in one of the parts of Baie Verte - not Baie Verte -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: The first night we were there.

AN HON. MEMBER: Hawke's Bay.

We stayed in a hotel in Hawke's Bay. At Hawke's Bay, at that particular time, I say to the minister, in the hotel you were not allowed to drink your water.

AN HON. MEMBER: No ice.

MR. FRENCH: No ice. My understanding is that also at the same point in time, maybe at the hotel in St. Anthony - I stand to be corrected on this - you were not allowed, there was an order by the hotel; you could not brush your teeth with the water that was coming through the taps at the hotel in St. Anthony.

MR. SULLIVAN: It is not good for tourism.

MR. FRENCH: It is certainly not good for tourism, I say to my colleague for Ferryland. It is not good for anybody when in this day and age, in 2001, we have communities in our Province, and I say this sincerely to the minister, who are living like they were living in a Third World country. I do not know if it is time for us to apply to UNICEF or some of these other people to give us money so that we can go into areas of this Province to ensure that the people of our Province have clean and decent drinking water.

I will always remember, I say to the minister, in 1996, campaigning on a road in Foxtrap. I believe the Member for Topsail knows where this road is. It is a road called Batten's Road. I went up and knocked on a lady's door. "Come in, Bob." I went in, and I say this to the minister, I saw white socks that were yellow because of the caliber of the water that these people got from a dug well. There was more septic running into different parts at that community at the time than you could shake a stick at.

I am glad to say today that, under former minister Art Reid, who was the member at that time, I can only hope, Minister, that you become as good a member or as good a minister as Art Reid was for the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. Art Reid has to be one of the best ministers that this Province has ever seen in that department.

I will also say this: The previous two members before you, who have served in a ministerial capacity in that particular department, have not been a patch on the rear end of Mr. Art Reid. They have never ever been able to do the job and do the job properly. They have never had an understanding of municipal and provincial affairs. They never had the ability to do the job, did not understand a municipality. I can only hope, Sir, as you more and more into your new position, that you will come to have an understanding and a learning of that department and what it means to the people of this Province who do not have decent drinking water and who do not have decent sewer systems. It is time that we came up with more money from the provincial side, and certainly more money from the federal side, to put into infrastructure within the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

As well, I would like to touch on some of the comments that were just made by my colleague, the Leader of the Opposition, and I am not going to get into discussions on Voisey's Bay. My colleague from The Straits today read a petition, and I know that he had a conversation with the minister concerning what is transpiring with Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. The problem is that a couple of days ago I heard the minister - I believe it was on radio - saying: I don't want to get involved with the internal workings of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. I would like to point out to the Minister of Mines and Energy for this Province that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro - I don't know if he is aware of it or not - has a generating station in Seal Cove, which is in my district. Apart from all the soot ash and everything else that floats out of those stacks when the plant is running - I won't get involved in that. What I want to talk about is how I heard this minister say he did not want to be involved. Madam Speaker, we have men in Holyrood who are being laid off, their jobs are being contracted out. About a week or so ago, at home at night, I got a call from one of their union members who told me that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro in Holyrood were trying to sell off all of their inventory. Now they had a motive for disposing of their inventory. Their motive was to sell their inventory to a company so that when they go before the PUB looking for a rate increase, they could say to the PUB: Look, we have gotten rid of all our inventory in Holyrood. It is gone, but the deal on the back end of this - my understanding is - if they were granted a rate by the PUB the money would be then taken and all the inventory would be bought back by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. Yet, we have people out there being bumped. We have work out there being contracted out at $65 and $75 an hour when the same work could be done for $17 and $18 an hour. Why, in the name of goodness, are we doing this? Why are we treating longstanding and longtime employees of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro any differently than we would treat anybody else in this Province?

I say to the minister, I believe it is time that you became involved with Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. He told, not asked, some of these people down there to clean up their act, to make sure of what they are doing - why we are going to sell off our inventory. The deal being, as soon as we get an increase, bang-o, overnight we are going to buy all the inventory back. Maybe if we did sound management and work with the employees in that area, maybe we wouldn't see people losing their jobs. My main concern here is that at the end of the day there are people being bumped out of various positions. I do not think that is right because some of these people have set up roots in my district and have been longstanding residents who, all of a sudden overnight, may very well find themselves unemployed. I don't think that is right and I don't think that is proper to see any human being treated in such a manner.

Madam Speaker, one of my colleagues, when up speaking earlier, welcomed the Member for Bellevue and said how glad he was to see the Member for Bellevue back in Cabinet. I can only say that -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) not back in Cabinet.

MR. FRENCH: That he is now in Cabinet. I am sorry about that. I would like to say to my friend and colleague, I will refer to him as two suits Barrett. I am glad to see that he is now going to get the opportunity to use, somebody told me, two suits. My understanding is that may have risen to maybe as many as fifteen suits, because one of my colleague tells me that he burned enough gas - the Member for Trinity North will be glad to know this - coming back from Clarenville that he probably could have bought twenty suits. He made that many trips into St. John's figuring that he was in Cabinet, he was going in Cabinet, and all for naught because at the end of the day he did not make it into Cabinet.

I am glad to see my colleague and friend over there, Mr. Reid, in Cabinet. I believe that he has worked long and hard. I believe that he has an understanding of the fishery. I can only say to my colleague that if he puts as much interest into being into Cabinet in Newfoundland and Labrador has his brother put in as Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, then I have nothing but the highest regard and the highest hope for that particular minister. Because if he is half the man that his brother was when he was there, he will certainly do a good job.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: So I look across and I say to my colleague from Twillingate -

MR. HARRIS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: I was wondering, Mr. Speaker, whether the member is either sitting on the wrong side of the House or trying to get all of his praise over at once so he can then start criticizing them all.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, I realize that there is no point of order so I will just carry on.

I can only say to my colleague from the NDP, I don't mind giving credit when credit is due. I don't care what that crowd over there, or even one or two of my own colleagues think, because I happen to think that Art Reid made a very good Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. He made a very good minister. Any time that I went to his office to ask questions about municipal and provincial affairs, he had a very good knowledge of what his department was all about and he understood his department. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same about everybody over there, but he did have an understanding of his department. Maybe it goes back to his ability to serve as a mayor in a community in our Province, but he had the nerve, the guts, and the decency. I always found with Art Reid, that if I asked him a question I got a very straight answer and if he could do something for my district it was done. I can only speak for his division. Like I said, unfortunately I cannot say the same for every member who has now gone in this Cabinet and, of course, there are other things that concern me.

After watching the last leadership convention I have to wonder now if there is anybody left at that convention who doesn't have a job. Is there anybody left from the last Liberal convention? Tom Murphy, Melvin Regular, Graham Flight, all of these fellows with jobs. All of these fellows who are still feeding at the public trough have now gone back to feed even more. Was there nobody in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador who could do consulting work for the Department of Education, or was the only genius, the only soul we had left in this Province Melvin Regular? Was he the only name that came up? Brian Tobin, when he strolled into the Liberal convention in Gander said: Oh, welcome home Melvin. Welcome back Melvin. How glad we are to see you. A month before that the same man would have gotten up with a gun and shot the then Premier Tobin. Is there nobody left from that convention who does not have a job?

When we see people drawing pensions, not minute pensions, but larger pensions than some of the civil servants who, at the end of this month, may have to hit the streets. Some of the people in this civil service, at the end of this month, may have to hit the streets because they cannot reach a suitable agreement with this government who sits on that side of the House.

MS THISTLE: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: I would certainly hope not, I say to her. I can only hope, Minister of Labour, that is was not your doings. I hope you did not play any part in the appointing of these three buckoes, whom I have named, to paying positions. They are back eating at the public trough again. What kind of a pension does Melvin Regular get? He is also the pastor for one of the largest churches in the City of St. John's. Is he drawing a salary from that? Is he drawing a salary from the Department of Education? How much, in the name of goodness, does this fellow take to live on?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: Well, he is head of one of them. Believe you me.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: No, he is not, hey! Well, you have a different view of him than I have, Sir, and your information is not the same as what I get from people in my district.

AN HON. MEMBER: Lloyd, you didn't give him the job, did you?

MR. FRENCH: I hope you didn't give him the job.

He is drawing a pension from the Government of Newfoundland and now we have to pay this character $1,000 a week to work for the Department of Education. Was there any school teacher in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, looking for work, who could not go there?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, you got the job. That's who it was. I thought it was the Minister of Labour. I apologize to the Minister of Labour.

MR. FRENCH: I do not care if he is flattered or not. At $1,000 a week he should not be hired! There are school teachers in this Province who would love a job at $1,000 a week. These people are out there today, I say to the minister, and they are not drawing pensions. The person who he appointed to the chairmanship of the Pippy Park Committee, my understanding, draws a pension from this government. I heard the other morning somebody refer to him on one of the open-line shows, as landslide Murphy. My colleague from St. John's South took care of him back in 1996, so today does that man deserve a job at $30,000 a year? Is there nobody else in this Province who could have gone up and ran Pippy Park, or do we have to pay this man $30,000 a year to take over that position? The former member, which my colleague for Windsor-Buchans looked after -

AN HON. MEMBER: Windsor-Springdale.

MR. FRENCH: Windsor-Springdale, what's the difference? Windsor-Springdale looked after. We have to pay him $350 to attend every meeting he attends. Make no wonder when I ran into him two weeks ago at the airport he was on his way to Florida. I should say he would be going to Florida. We are probably going to give him enough money to cover that off.

So, at the end of the day what are we doing? What have you created now? A retirement home for ex-Liberals in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Is that what we have created? It is certainly not a personal care home because I have thirty of them who are treated like dogs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Is there anyone over there who is not getting extra money?

MR. FRENCH: There is nobody on that side of the House who are not getting extra money. I said I believe that everybody who attended that Liberal convention now have paid positions. What is really interesting to note is when the cameras went up on them at the convention, what colour of necklace they had around their neck? Who were they supporting?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: I don't know. What about you still not sitting in Cabinet? Your former boss was there and your former boss was a good man. I am a lot closer to Cabinet than you are, sir.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Call an election today and we will see who gets in the quickest; you or me. I will be beat out going through the door and you will be still up in the nosebleed section. You will be where you are today. You are where you deserve to be today, in the nosebleed section of this House. You could not make it and you are not going to make it now. You are not coming with us. We don't want you. Stay where you are. We are not taking you. You do not have a choice.

Now, Mr. Speaker, earlier on in the speech I was in a bit of a conciliatory mood and I am glad -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FRENCH: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: No leave.

MR. FRENCH: One other department that I am glad to see formed -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

No leave. The hon. member does not have leave.

MR. FRENCH: Is there no leave?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS KELLY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

This afternoon I would like to start actually - as I would like to respond to the Speech from the Throne, but I would like to start by agreeing for once in my political career, I think, with the member opposite from CBS. I agree with him on one statement that he just made, and it was not the one about Mr. Regular being a pastor because I know that not to be correct, but I will agree with him that one of our previous Ministers of Municipal and Provincial Affairs was indeed an exemplary minister. I know that our present minister will do just as good a job. I know also that his brother will do just as good a job in his portfolio. It is a pleasure for once to be able to stand and agree with something that the member opposite said. I did not think the day would ever come that I could do that. So it with great pleasure that I stand to do that, but the real purpose that I am standing here this afternoon is to talk about the Speech from the Throne.

MR. J. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS KELLY: Oh, what did I do wrong now?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis on a point of order.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I want to be clear on what the minister is saying here now. She said she agrees with the Member for Conception Bay South in a statement he made with respect to the previous Minister Reid with respect to municipal affairs. What he said was he was the best Minister of Municipal Affairs. Is that what you are saying, that he was the best minister?

 

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order

The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

MS KELLY: I agree that he was one of the best, and that we have had very good Ministers of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. As a matter of fact, I would venture to say that one of the members of the party opposite was a very good minister years ago, from my own district. I remember, Hazel Newhook, very well. So, there have been very good ministers in the past, Art Reid included, but just watch the minister we have now. In the next session you will be able to stand up and say there have been two best ministers.

Anyway, I would like to get to the Speech from the Throne. I was very proud this week to be part of a government that delivered this Speech from the Throne. I again want to go on the record to thank the Lieutenant-Governor for his words and for his delivery of that Speech on our behalf. It was indeed, I think, a work plan of action, one that I am very proud, under our new Premier, to be apart of. As it says, and I would just like to highlight a few things, from the Speech from the Throne, "... a period of change, confidence and challenge".

For us, that is so true. We have a new plan of action, and I think later on the week we will be hearing more about part of that plan of action as we unroll the Jobs and Growth strategy. It is a plan of action that involves the people of this Province. In consultations, I think we did twenty-three forums around the Province and ten sectoral round tables that I was very pleased, as the previous Minister of Industry, Trade, and Technology, to participate in, but it will build on the significant work we have done over the past five years and I think we are going to see some very exciting things happen in the upcoming two years.

I think we should also point out, as the Lieutenant-Governor did, that this is the International Year of the Volunteer. As a government, we have so many volunteers to thank in this Province. Really, without the volunteers, this Province would not be the place that it is. It is so good, as a government, to have citizens like we have in this Province to work with. I think specifically of groups like school boards; hospital boards; zonal boards; the municipal councils and the local service districts; the church groups and service groups; the women's centers all across the Province - we have seven of them; the service groups like the Lions group; the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women; the youth groups, of which we have many, but in particular groups that we have worked closely with in the last year or so: the Teen Tobacco Team; the community youth networks that I will be meeting with a lot over the next couple of weeks; groups that have been here for a long time, like the Girl Guides and the Boy Scout movements, and many others. They all make this Province a better place to live. I am sure that as we move towards putting in place the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador there will be no difficulty in finding recipients for the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador.

To get into the parts that specifically speak to the new role that I have within our government, I would like to focus on issues facing youth and women in my role of the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education, and also the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women. In particular, I would like to start with youth.

We heard, through the Jobs and Growth consultation, that we needed for youth to have a bigger say in their future in this Province; for youth and women was a very loud, I think, comment that was made by the people of this Province, but for the future of this Province for youth that they needed to have a better understanding of the decisions of government and the operations of government. It is time, I think, that we put in place some real initiatives and some mechanisms to fulfill this objective.

So, we have decided that we will be putting a Youth Advisory Council in place. This will be a committee that will work very closely with the Department of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education. We are now putting together a paper that we will bring to Cabinet, that will outline how we would like to do this. We would like to do it in a very public fashion. You will hear a lot more about it in the months to come. I intend to start right away and I am already sitting down and talking to some of the community youth networks, to seek advice from them on how best to put this group together. We will be doing that, as I have said, in the next month or so.

We have being holding some extensive consultations under the direction of the previous Minister Responsible for the Status of Woman, and we will be putting some of that consultation advice into action, too, in the upcoming months, and setting some new goals and new priorities on the issues that affect women. Of course, I will be working with the Provincial Advisory Councils and the women centers throughout the Province to make sure that our advice is current as we put these new priorities in place.

Also, one of the messages that was in the Throne Speech was empowering rural communities. Never was there a time more important in our history for us to be doing just that. I am really happy that in my district, in the fall, there will be a Rural Forum and Exposition. This will be a Rural EXPO, and it will showcase business accomplishments from all over this Province, and it will encourage future investment and showcase ideas for others to take a look at the successes that we already have in place. This Exposition will put a particular emphasis on our Province's young leaders and young entrepreneurs. There is no doubt that over the past few years with organizations like the GENESIS Centre at Memorial, that we have a lot of young entrepreneurs who are making their mark in this Province. A lot of young entrepreneurs have come through programs both at Memorial and the College of the North Atlantic, and at our private institutions, that are following in some of their parents footsteps, and some of them setting out with no family experience but with a good education, to be able to set up their own businesses and create a job for themselves and, in many cases, a job for others in their communities.

This is a time when it is more and more important that we step forward with confidence in this Province, with a can-do philosophy. I think a few years ago, with the downturn in the cod fishery, it was a demoralizing time in many areas of rural Newfoundland, but now with the zonal board process in place, and the zonal boards with their action plans and their strategic plans done, we are seeing a lot come forward with good ideas for rural Newfoundland. It is time for us to help rural Newfoundland put these agenda and action items in place to get results.

We will immediately and aggressively be implementing this new agenda that is outlined in the Throne Speech. Of course, while the Jobs and Growth strategy was important, that we talked to people about what we will be doing with our economy in the future, the Strategic Social Plan is also extremely important; because if we do not integrate our Strategic Social Plan with our economic plan, the quality of life for everyone in this Province will not be what it should be. With the plan we have to integrate both our social plans and our economic plans, I know that in the future our Province will have success like it has never seen before.

With the new structure of government that is announced, and some details given in this Throne Speech, there is much that will be done within these new departments. In my own Department of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education, we have a mandate to assist youths in achieving their full potential and accessing opportunities that are arising from the new diversified economy that is in this Province, that is emerging all over the place, in the IT sector, in tourism, in the offshore, in education opportunities. There are business opportunities in education that will come forward in the next decade, the likes of which we have never seen before.

One of the initiatives that I would like to briefly mention is the Student Investment Corporation that we will be putting in place. This will be a group and a program that will be put in place to coordinate a youth employment strategy and implement it, and we will be putting in place programs that include apprenticeship. It will focus on, in particular, youth who are unemployed, and it will implement a program that will, in particular in our rural areas, prepare our young people to be able to save money and get work experience towards a job of the future; money they will save to put towards post-secondary education, to go into one of our fine private colleges, into MUN, or into the College of the North Atlantic.

It is very important that we try to focus this in rural areas where students will not only save money but will also get very valuable work experience that will help them in making choices of which career path they want to follow.

We also have some work to do with our loans remission program, and we have had a committee in place for the past several months that have been looking at some recommendations that have come from students, from educators, from government and from the general public, to look at how we can address student debt in this Province; because more and more it is becoming very important for us to recognize that students in particular who have to live away from home are graduating from post-secondary institutions with a fine education but their debt load is more than in many instances they can bear. That is not good for our students, but it is also not good for our economy. We want them to graduate and go to work and be able to get all of the things that students in this Province aspire to, to be able to take their place, buy new homes and vehicles, and get on with their lives in a timely fashion and contribute to the economy of this Province.

We have also, I think, a very important initiative that we have started this year, and it is a start. We, in the past two years, have frozen tuition at Memorial University and at the College of the North Atlantic, but this year we will be able to start reducing the debt at Memorial University. It is important for us to realize that we have to do that in a way in the beginning that matches the financial resources that we can put forward to replace at Memorial the operating costs that will be taken away by reducing the student debt of 10 per cent come this September. We hope to continue to do it until the student tuition at Memorial University is down to what it is at the College of the North Atlantic, and then to be able to decrease the tuition at the Marine Institute and the College of the North Atlantic until it is down to zero. We are a ways away from doing that, but if we do not start now we will never reach that goal.

Another very important thing for us is that the federal government must also ensure that post- secondary education becomes a spending priority. We know that through the 1990s, in the face of severe fiscal challenges, they cut a lot of the money that was available to students through the Canada Health and Social Transfer in 1996. We think it is time for some of that money to go back in to help with the student debt. We, as a Province, cannot do all of it; we need everyone working together to make this a reality.

These are just some of the things through my Department of Youth, Services and Post-Secondary Education, and being the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, that I would like to highlight from this week's Throne Speech.

There are a few other issues here, and one in particular that I was very proud to see in this Throne Speech is the Natural Areas System Plan that will be unveiled, and we will be consulting with the public in the upcoming weeks and months. This is a plan that will preserve representative samples of our Province's ecosystem and sensitive ecological sites. I think it is important for us to move forward with this, because as we move forward with large developments we also always have to keep in mind that we have to preserve land and, in particular, preserve at least a portion of every one of our eco-regions for future generations to come.

In closing, I would like to say that this was a great Throne Speech. It is an ambitious plan for action, one that I am really, really proud to be a part of, one that I know is a good work plan, and one that the people of this Province will be extremely proud of as we implement all that is in this plan. I am very proud to serve under our new Premier, who I know will help us quickly implement this plan. This is a work plan that will be implemented. This is not a Throne Speech that will sit on anybody's desk or on any shelves. This is a work plan that all of us, on this side of the House, will do our utmost to support the Premier to have every bit of this plan implemented in the upcoming weeks and months.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: I thank hon. members for their contribution today. Being that it is on the verge of the St. Patrick's Day weekend, we will close the House right now.

Mr. Speaker, I move that the House, on its rising, do adjourn until Tuesday at 1:30 p.m.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Tuesday, at 1:30 p.m.