May
28, 2015
HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLVII No. 22
The
House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Verge):
Order, please!
Admit strangers.
I am
very pleased today to welcome to the public gallery a group of students from
Holy Name of Mary Academy in Lawn.
They are here with their teachers Lori Strang, Hannah Annebury and
Jean Ann Lambert.
Welcome to the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
I am also very pleased
today to welcome to the Speaker's gallery Mrs. Cyrilda Poirier, President of
the Provincial Francophone Federation; Mrs. Roxanne Leduc, Assistant
Executive Director of the Provincial Francophone Federation; Jim Prowse,
Manager of the Office of French Services; and, Natalie Matthews, the Office
of French Services.
Welcome to the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
Statements by
Members
MR. SPEAKER:
Today we will hear
members' statements from members representing the Districts of St. John's
North, Mount Pearl South, Bonavista South, Port de Grave, Labrador West, and
St. John's East.
The
hon. the Member for St. John's North.
MR. KIRBY:
Mr. Speaker, today I
would like to recognize the tremendous efforts of the committee of
volunteers who organized the Safe Grad at Prince of Wales Collegiate which
was held on May 15.
As a
result of their hard work and dedication throughout the 2014-2015 school
year, these school volunteers ensured that this year's Safe Grad was an
amazing time for this year's graduating class.
There were about thirty parent volunteers involved this year and their help
was immeasurable. This
incredible team of parent and school volunteers were exceptionally generous
with their time. They could be
counted on anytime where they were needed to help out.
I
would like to single out the following individuals who were leads on the
subcommittees for Safe Grad 2015: Co-Chair and Secretary Irene Batstone,
Co-Chair and Decorator Kathy Pretty, Past Chair and Treasurer Carol O'Keefe,
Food and Refreshments Co-Chairs Bev Preston and Susan Jackman, Entertainment
Co-Chairs Christine Wheaton and Enid Pendergast, Fundraising Co-Chairs Ruth
Mandville and Ruth Power-Blackmore, and Teacher Representatives Elizabeth
Tuff and Jennifer Gibbons.
I
ask all hon. members to join me in recognizing the hard work of all of the
Prince of Wales Collegiate Safe Grad committee volunteers.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Mount Pearl South.
MR. LANE:
Mr. Speaker, it gives me
great pleasure to rise in this hon. House to recognize an individual who has
made a tremendous difference in my community.
Long-time Mount Pearl resident, Mr. Reg White is the very definition
of what it means to be a community leader.
Whether it be through Mount Pearl Minor Hockey, baseball, softball, the
First United Church, the Frosty Festival, or anything else that is going on
in the City of Mount Pearl, you will find Reg with his sleeves rolled up
making a contribution to the cause.
This has not gone unnoticed in our community, as Reg has been
inducted into the Mount Pearl Sports Hall of Fame and has been honoured as
one of Mount Pearl's Citizens of the Year.
In
addition to his great work in our city, Reg has volunteered with Habitat for
Humanity for the past seventeen years and in that time has worked on nearly
thirty builds, including a Global Village build in Thailand two years ago.
He can also be found volunteering almost daily at the Habitat for
Humanity ReStore in St. John's.
On
May 15, in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Reg was honoured nationally as
Habitat Canada's Volunteer of the Year.
I
ask all members of this hon. House to join me in congratulating Reg on this
accomplishment and thank him for the significant contribution he has made to
our community.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Bonavista South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. LITTLE:
Mr. Speaker, hon.
colleagues, I rise today to recognize Bonavista native, Adam Pardy, on his
career as a hockey player in the National Hockey League.
Adam
is the son of Stan and Lorraine Pardy.
He has two older brothers, Neil and Todd, currently working at Long
Harbour. The family is very
close and they had to make many sacrifices in order to commit whatever they
could towards Adam's hockey career.
Prior to his hockey career, Adam played ball hockey as a junior.
In 2003, he was named the most valuable defenseman in the junior
nationals by the Canadian Ball Hockey Association.
In 2004, he won a bronze medal with Team Canada at the World Ball
Hockey Association championships in Slovakia.
Adam
turned professional in 2005 and started his career with the American Hockey
League, playing with Omaha AK-Sar-Ben Knights.
He appeared in seventy games in his first full American Hockey League
season in 2006-2007. Adam made
his debut in 2008-2009 into the NHL.
He began his career with the Calgary Flames and subsequently played
with the Dallas Stars and Buffalo Sabres.
In 2013, he signed on and is currently playing with the Winnipeg
Jets.
Mr.
Speaker, hon. colleagues, please join me in recognizing Adam Pardy on his
accomplishments as a professional hockey player and another person from this
great Province who represents us all on the national and international
scene.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Port de Grave.
MR. LITTLEJOHN:
Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
I
rise today to give thumbs up to the Grade 2 classes of All Hallows
Elementary for their involvement in a national agriculture program called
Little Green Thumbs.
In
this program, students planted various kinds of vegetables like tomatoes,
beans, cucumbers, and peppers in earth boxes set up in their classrooms.
Each class was linked to a Department of Agriculture coordinator who
worked with the students to facilitate the garden classrooms.
The students then took care of their plants, watering, snipping, and
cutting when needed. The
excitement and eagerness of experiencing nature in the classroom was very
evident.
When
the plants were ready for harvest, the classes had tasting parties and
shared the vegetables with others in the school.
This helped them understand where their food comes from and
encourages healthier food and nutrition choices in their daily lives.
The
students also grew along with their plants.
Their teachers say they showed positive growth in reading, writing,
observing data, and overall a better caring of their environment.
They are now eagerly planning a year-end celebration in the Little
Green Thumbs program.
I
ask all members to join me today in congratulating the Grade 2 classes of
All Hallows Elementary on their Little Green Thumbs.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
stand in this hon. House today to congratulate the organizers of the
community rally to support laid off workers at IOC in Labrador West.
On
Monday evening, several hundred residents of Labrador West gathered at the
Union Centre parking lot on Hudson Drive to walk in unison supporting and
showing their support for those affected in the upcoming layoff in June.
This layoff, of course, will add to the recent list of adverse
downturns in the economy within the iron ore industry and have a very
negative effect on our communities.
It was somewhat uplifting to see the community come together in such
a strong show of support for the people and the community as a whole.
Walking alongside the employees of IOC and listening to the effect this will
have on their daily and day-to-day living puts a different perspective on
what many of us take for granted.
I applaud the United Steelworkers of America Local 5795, and all
those who helped organize this event.
It showcased the comradery, the loyalty, and the tenacity of the
people of Labrador West.
I
ask all members to join me in recognizing the efforts of the communities in
Labrador West.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY:
Mr. Speaker, unlike my
beloved Montreal Canadiens, the Gonzaga Vikings have had a golden year in
hockey this year with some silver thrown in for good measure.
The
Vikings won the City Championship, they won the Confederation Cup for the
first time since 2008, and they won their regional championship to compete
in 4As. They won silver in the
Darryl Reid tournament, a Grand Falls-Windsor tournament, and the Dragon's
Lair tournament in Chicago.
Head
coach Ryan Morgan, assistant coaches Kris Abbott and Peter Keough, teachers'
representative Krista Grimes, and team manager Kelly Hutton should all be
commended on their work with these boys who, in addition to their great
playing, have also been involved in the Canadian National Institute for the
Blind Courage Canada Program, helping children with visual impairments to
skating at Mile One.
Congratulations to Captain Adam Caines, Assistant Captains Coady Barron,
Michael Connors and Cameron Dunn, and the other great Vikings of the team:
Joel Bishop, Sam Bishop, Iain Gamba, Brady Holwell, Eric Hutchings, Matt
Hickey, Jack Hutton, Zack Fitzpatrick, Ben Jessome, Matty Marshall, Eric
McKay, David Penney, Henry Power, Daniel Rice, Robin Schilg, Ryan Shea, John
Simms, Chris Smith, Joey Walsh, and Owen Winsor.
I
ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating Gonzaga Vikings on an
outstanding hockey season.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Statements by Ministers.
Statements by
Ministers
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Service Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. CRUMMELL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, I rise in this hon. House to note that next week, from June 2 to 4,
the provincial government will carry out Roadcheck 2015.
During this period, Service NL enforcement staff will engage in a
road check blitz for commercial vehicles.
Roacheck 2015 is an initiative of the Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance,
and represents a major undertaking by vehicle safety enforcement personal
across Canada, the United States, and Mexico.
Mr.
Speaker, during these three days, highway enforcement officers and weigh
scale inspectors from the Motor Registration Division of Service NL will
conduct spot checks of commercial vehicles to promote road safety, and to
remind owners and operators of safe operating practices.
Staff will be checking for mechanical deficiencies, reviewing driver
records, inspecting cargo securement, and monitoring compliance with other
legislation. These roadside
inspections will be conducted in accordance with nationally developed
inspection criteria for commercial vehicles.
Mr.
Speaker, road safety is a key concern of our government.
Roadcheck 2015 provides an excellent opportunity to promote safe
driving practices among commercial vehicle operators, and emphasize the
significance of provincial and national laws that promote road safety.
Service NL is tasked with that responsibility of ensuring vehicles
transporting cargo and passengers in our Province are mechanically fit,
operated by qualified personnel, and compliant with federal and provincial
legislation. We take that
responsibility very seriously.
Newfoundland and Labrador's continued participation in Roadcheck
demonstrates our ongoing commitment in this regard.
As
we prepare for Roadcheck 2015, I want to take this opportunity to recognize
the great work of our dedicated enforcement staff, who perform their duties
faithfully every day. Their work
is greatly appreciated by our government, and vital to the safety of
motorists throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.
I also want to applaud the efforts of everyone in the commercial
transport industry who promote road safety and best practices.
These professionals always perform well during Roadcheck, and
throughout the year, and I thank them for setting a strong standard of
practice for others.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Mount Pearl South.
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
would like to thank the minister for the advance copy of his daily
Ministerial Statement.
Mr.
Speaker, over here in the Official Opposition we want to also recognize next
week as Roadcheck 2015. We are
certainly very supportive of this initiative.
Anything we can do to keep our highways safe is a good thing.
I
encourage the government to continue down that road of making our highways
safe, and not just with this initiative but initiatives such as working with
MADD Avalon to improving issues around impaired driving, working with SOPAC
to improve moose safety on our highways, and to ensure that we get the lines
painted on our roads so we can actually see where we are going.
That would certainly go a long way in avoiding accidents and dealing
with all the ruts and all the potholes.
We even have communities like Rose Blanche where they are actually
canoeing in the potholes. So we
certainly need to address things like that.
I
thank the minister for this initiative.
Obviously, there is a lot of work to be done.
I ask the minister to roll up his sleeves and get it done.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY:
I thank the minister for
the advance copy of his statement here today, Mr. Speaker.
There is no doubt that the staff at the National Safety Code do some good
work in protecting our fellow motorists out there.
The dedication of the enforcement staff is second to none in
sometimes very trying conditions.
I think the minister recognizes that.
Roadcheck 2015 ensures compliance with the rules of the safety of our roads
but government also should recognize our roadways have become hazards in
their own right, Mr. Speaker.
Good roads themselves help keep maintenance costs down, especially to heavy
equipment operators out there.
That in itself, Mr. Speaker, coupled with a good maintenance program, leads
to a culture of safety in its own right.
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Acting
Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY:
Mr. Speaker, I rise in
this hon. House to recognize May 30 as Provincial Francophonie Day.
Mr.
Speaker, since 1999, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has been
recognizing Francophonie Day in the Province.
Each year Francophones, Acadians, and their many friends and
partners, including the provincial government, have come together to raise
the Franco-Newfoundland and Labrador flag just outside the House of
Assembly.
Once
again this year a ceremony is organized by the Francophone Federation of
Newfoundland and Labrador to be held tomorrow just outside the East Block of
the Confederation Building. My
colleague, the MHA for the District of Port au Port, will attend the
ceremony and join the Francophone community in raising their flag.
There are also other ceremonies taking place around the Province in
areas such as the Port au Port Peninsula and in Labrador to mark this
important day.
Mr.
Speaker, I am very pleased to inform you that an important milestone has
been reached by the Francophone community centre in St. John's this year.
The School and Community Centre des Grands-Vents is celebrating its
tenth anniversary. This centre
has become the heart of the Francophone community in the St. John's area
serving as a place where the Francophone community's arts, heritage, and
culture truly come to life.
This
year also marks the twentieth anniversary of the Office of French Services
in the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.
The office provides French language training, translation, linguistic
support, and community liaison services to government departments.
It also provides a vital link between the Government of Newfoundland
and Labrador and the Francophone and Acadian community in all regions of the
Province.
For
their many accomplishments and their contributions to the historical,
cultural, linguistic, and economic fabric of our Province, I ask all hon.
members to join me in congratulating the Francophone and Acadian community
of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE:
Mr. Speaker, I thank
the minister for an advance copy of his statement.
[Speaks French.]
Je
d้sol้ if I did not get that out absolutely right.
It has been about thirteen years since I have taken a French course.
It may be an opportunity to go back and look at the services that we
do offer here within the Confederation Building and encourage others.
The
Official Opposition joins the government in celebrating Francophonie Day.
Despite the small and scattered Francophone and Acadian population in
our Province, almost 25,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians speak both of
our official languages and more and more children are opting for French
immersion. We must strive to
make these opportunities more readily available.
The
French Shore Historical Society in my district highlights Croque as once the
administrative headquarters for the French migratory fishery on the French
Shore. Conche has a 222-foot
Jacobean tapestry. I
congratulate the centre and the French Services for marking these milestones
and welcome the dignitaries here today.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I too thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.
I
remember well when I was on the Ministerial Advisory Committee on French in
Education, established by then Education Minister Gerry Ottenheimer in the
1970s, looking into, for the first time, the inclusion of French in our
school system. How delighted I am to stand here today and see how far this
Province has come in recognizing the existence of French language, French
culture, and the people of the French-speaking community.
Monsieur, je dis f้licitations tout le monde les Francophones de
Terre-Neuve-et-Labrador, le Centre Scolaire et Communautaire des
Grands-Vents, et le Bureau des services en fran็ais.
Merci.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Bonjour to the minister.
The
hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. BRAZIL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
stand to inform this hon. House of a new innovative approach to road
maintenance. I am pleased to
announce today that through a Budget 2015 allocation of $600,000, we will
purchase four asphalt recyclers to enhance our ability to make
longer-lasting repairs to roads during colder months.
The
period of time between late March and early May is the most difficult time
for road conditions. After the
winter, we see large potholes appear.
People are anxious to have them repaired and we want to make sure
that these repairs are done and are long lasting.
Spring is difficult, Mr. Speaker, due to regular freezing and thawing.
A pothole forms when water soaks into the ground beneath the
pavement. The water freezes,
then it expands, causing the pavement to break apart from underneath.
When the temperature rises, the water melts and leaves a hole
underneath the pavement. The
pressure of many vehicles driving over it pushes the pavement down and
creates the potholes.
In
the warmer months, permanent repairs can be made.
However, in the colder months when the asphalt plants are not open,
crews use cold patch. This
product is not as flexible as the hot asphalt mix and does not last as long.
The
purchase of asphalt recyclers will enable us to reuse old asphalt and to
make longer-lasting repairs to provincial roads during the cold season.
This not only benefits those who travel on our provincial roads and
highways, but will help keep old asphalt out of our landfills.
Mr.
Speaker, this is one of the many strategic investments this government is
making in key areas of our transportation network.
Over the past three years, more than $400 million has helped
maintain, upgrade, and enhance hundreds of kilometres of roads, as well as
replace twenty-three bridges, and repair forty others.
The
asphalt recyclers will be purchased for the upcoming winter season and
placed in four regions of the Province.
I will be pleased to provide an update on their use as we continue to
work to provide safe and reliable transportation networks throughout
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's South.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
After twelve years in government, this is what they come up with as a new
and innovative way of improving our roadwork.
I will agree with the minister, however, that cold patch does not
last very long. Potholes and the
need for patching, however, are indicative of a much bigger problem.
I am hoping that the minister does not see this as a measure to put
off infrastructure spending where roadwork is needed.
Mr.
Speaker, while asphalt recyclers should be a better remedy to cold patching,
it should not be considered as an option to further delay necessary
roadwork. I am happy to see that
there is an effort being made to recycle asphalt, as opposed to sending it
to the landfill, so we look forward to seeing the results of these asphalt
recyclers.
I
will say, though, on a lighter note, Mr. Speaker, I have noticed that the
minister has been a little bit edgy lately.
I understand now why. I
am delighted to see that he is finally coming off the patch.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY:
I am not going to top
that one.
I
thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement here today, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. MURPHY:
While this is a good
announcement, it does not belittle the fact that government has neglected
road issues for a long time.
Even the Auditor General says that they have been playing catch-up with the
amount of neglect of our roads out there.
I
think, Mr. Speaker, he tagged it at the time as something in the order of
$800 million that we needed to see back in the roads and bridges.
That is shameful in itself.
A proper road maintenance schedule for our roads would have prevented
these problems from happening in the first place.
So I
ask the minister, perhaps he can address this a little bit further in the
future and come out with a plan for roads and bridges so that we can deal
with that.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. MURPHY:
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
Oral
Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of
the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In
Estimates this year, the minister said that he has accepted a closure plan
for Wabush Mines. He said we
have accepted their plan and it will now go through various stages.
However, a community that is directly impacted by this this is of
course the Town of Wabush says that they have not been consulted on this
plan.
I
ask the Premier: Why did you accept a closure plan that did not include
consultations with the Town of Wabush?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY:
Mr. Speaker, in order for
anyone to operate a mine in this Province they have to go through various
steps and stages around getting their licensing.
One aspect of that, which is covered through the legislation, is that
they have to provide financing for rehabilitation and closure.
In
the event that the mine closes, Mr. Speaker, their environmental obligations
they have to provide funding, proof of that funding.
We have that funding from Cliffs Resources to ensure that the rehab
and closure plan is implemented.
Discussions are ongoing all the time, Mr. Speaker, with these aspects.
As
for whether the town are aware of the full plan, I would have to check that
out, Mr. Speaker. If they are
not, I have no problem letting them know what the stages are because it is
important for the people on the ground and important for the town as well.
We will certainly work with them, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of
the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
think the people in Wabush would be some of the first people that you would
think who would be included in this round of consultations.
They are the people who are impacted the most.
A
big issue in Labrador West is dust control from this site, and already this
year we are seeing an increase in dust in this area.
We understand that with the closure plan accepted, there is a limit
to the amount of dust control in this region.
Not only is this an environmental hazard but this is a health hazard
as well, and the minister said at the time they are monitoring the
situation.
I
ask the Premier: Aside from monitoring this, looking at this, what are you
doing to actually control the high levels of dust as a result of the closure
of Wabush mines?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY:
Mr. Speaker, the Leader
of the Opposition raises a very important issue for residents of Wabush.
It has been an ongoing issue, but the responsibility and the
obligation rests with the company.
What
we have been doing, we have gone back to the company with respect to their
obligations as well as their closure plan, and how it fits in that
particular aspect of the environment.
As well, we are also considering internally whether the company
complies or whether we take the actual money for the rehab and closure and
get the work done, but we are in consultation with the Town of Wabush.
We understand it is very serious for the people of Wabush and we will
be proactive in working with them to ensure that we do what we can to
mediate the dust issue in Lab West I am sorry, in Wabush.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of
the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, the responsibility actually cannot be left to this company and it
cannot be left to the responsibility of the Town of Wabush.
The responsibility for dust control in Lab West, in the community of
Wabush, squarely lies, clearly lies with this government I say, Mr. Speaker.
Government spent $65,000 for insurance on the idle Roddickton pellet plant
last year. They spent $84,000
the year before. When asked last
year, the minister said the $84,000 insurance payment would be the last that
this government would make.
I
ask the Premier: Why did you spend another $65,000 on the insurance for this
private company when you said last year that there would be no more
payments?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY:
Mr. Speaker, there are
two points to his question. The
Minister Responsible for Forestry can answer the second part, but I just
want to clarify a point he made, that the responsibility of this dust
cleanup is not with the Town of Wabush.
That has never been implied.
It has never been indicated by this government, Mr. Speaker.
It
is the responsibility of Cliffs Resources, the owner-operator of the Wabush
Mines. There is money in place
to take care of this. We are
working through a process. We
have been clear to the company that they have a responsibility.
We have been clear to the people of Wabush that, as a government, we
will work with them, we will work with the company, and if we have to use
the money to clean up the dust, we will use the money, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of
the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, as I mentioned, $65,000 on an idle Roddickton pellet plant last year,
another $84,000 the year before, this to pay insurance for a private
company.
I
ask the Premier: Why are you spending $65,000 again this year for insurance,
when clearly last year you said it would be the last payment that was made?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister
Responsible for the Forestry and Agrifoods Agency.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. GRANTER:
Mr. Speaker, the
provincial government has invested nearly $10 million to diversify, or
attempt to diversify, the forestry on the Northern Peninsula, and especially
with regard to Holson Forest Products.
There is an asset down there that is sitting there.
We
invested again this past winter, or the company did some investments this
past winter for a new business plan.
They are shopping that around now, Mr. Speaker, a new engineering
plan, a new business plan. We
hope someone out there in the market will pick up, with regard to the pellet
industry, and advance that along.
I
have an asset down there, Mr. Speaker, without any insurance on it.
It was imperative that the government would provide the insurance
cost this particular year, just in case a travesty or a disaster would take
place.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of
the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
need some clarification here.
The minister just said that after a $10 million investment they are now
shopping this investment around to see if there is any interest.
Can
the minister please explain what it is you are shopping around?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister
Responsible for the Forestry and Agrifoods Agency.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. GRANTER:
Mr. Speaker, it is
interesting that on a day in, day out basis the Opposition parties stand in
this House and they talk about rural diversification in the economy.
This
government stepped up to the plate a number of years ago to assist Holson
Forest Products on the Northern Peninsula, to help diversify the economy in
that particular part of the Province in the forestry industry.
We stepped up to the plate.
Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, it has not worked to date.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. GRANTER:
The company has gone back
this past January and redesigned the business plan.
They had engineering work done.
Let me be clear, the company is out shopping their business plan
around to see if they will get any partners, Mr. Speaker, to advance the
forest industry on the Northern Peninsula.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of
the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
will ask the minister, or the Premier, whoever decides to answer the
question $10 million you talked about investment in rural Newfoundland.
I
ask the minister, or the Premier: How many jobs has that $10 million
created?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister
Responsible for the Forestry and Agrifoods Agency.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. GRANTER:
Mr. Speaker, as I said,
we have invested in that particular company on the Northern Peninsula.
I am sure that the members of the Opposition and in the Third Party
would ask all of us as governments, and as we move things along, to invest
in rural parts of the Province.
They stand on their feet on a day-to-day basis to invest in rural parts of
the Province. We stepped up to
the plate, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. GRANTER:
We stepped up on the
South Coast in the fishery, we stepped up in the fishery around the coastal
parts of the Province, we stepped up in the forest industry, Mr. Speaker,
and we will continue to do so.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
The
hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, I guess we will find out how many jobs were going to be created when
the second business plan gets done because government is now spending
$120,000 for this company, the very same company, to do another business
plan and an engineering study.
I
ask the Premier: After $10 million in taxpayers' money given to this private
company, why are you spending another $120,000 on yet another business plan?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Mr. Speaker, if you
listen to the member's opposite, it sounds like it is a bad thing to invest
in business and partnerships in Newfoundland and Labrador.
We have invested in numerous opportunities in Newfoundland and
Labrador and we have created thousands of jobs, Mr. Speaker.
Just
yesterday, we asked the member opposite if he supported a great project that
is underway in Labrador, Mr. Speaker, one called Muskrat Falls.
He could not say yesterday if he supports it or not.
He is not sure if he supports it, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
That project is
creating thousands of jobs in Newfoundland and Labrador and it will create
revenue for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians for generations to come, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
The minister just
mentioned about the great success story that has happened on the South
Coast. Aquaculture on the South
Coast is providing more jobs than anyone could ever imagine, Mr. Speaker,
and members opposite are opposed to it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Leader of
the Official Opposition.
Order, please!
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Since the Premier is on his feet talking about investment in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador, I ask the Premier: How many jobs of this $10
million investment in the Roddickton pellet plant create?
How many jobs?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Mr. Speaker, I will
stand on my feet all day long, if member's opposite want, and talk about the
diversification in the economy that we are creating over on this side of the
House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
We will talk about
the jobs that we are creating, Mr. Speaker.
We will talk about the jobs that we are creating.
We are not afraid to make a decision.
They can stand in the House all day long and stand behind their
secrets because they have lots of them over there.
There are lots of secrets over there.
We
are tested every single day on our policies.
We are creating an economy.
We are creating growth and development in businesses.
We are creating jobs and opportunity in rural and small parts of the
Province. We make no apologies
for it. As a matter of fact, Mr.
Speaker, we celebrate it and we will continue to do our best efforts to
partner with businesses throughout Newfoundland and Labrador to drive our
economy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
The
hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.
MR. BALL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The
story in Roddickton continues because government also gave this very same
company a power-generating asset at a very nominal cost.
In turn, what did the company do?
It sold the asset to a Quebec competitor for millions of dollars.
I
ask the Premier: Why did you allow profits from the sale of a public asset
to go to a private company? Why
did you allow this company to flip this asset?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY:
Mr. Speaker, I would ask
the member perhaps to check his facts.
It is a wood chip plant I assume he is referring to.
I will stand to be corrected too, but it is a plant that was opened
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. DALLEY:
It was a plant that was
opened in 1990, a five-megawatt plant in the St. Anthony, Roddickton, and
Main Brook area, Mr. Speaker.
Through the efforts of government at the time and the federal government,
there was some money supported to interconnect the Great Northern Peninsula
to access lower-priced, more reliable electricity.
Through that process then, as a result of that, there was no need for the
facility. So it went through the
PUB in 1996 and, Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government approved the sale in
2001.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
The
hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE:
Mr. Speaker, the
Office of Public Engagement Estimates were not debated in committee as
scheduled. I have written the
Government House Leader's staff, minister, and asked Office of Public
Engagement officials when the committee will get the opportunity to question
their spending. These requests
have been ignored.
Mr.
Speaker, since the government claims to have an Open Government Initiative,
when will the minister schedule an Estimates meeting for the Office of
Public Engagement?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister
Responsible for the Office of Public Engagement.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. KENT:
Mr. Speaker, even members
opposite may acknowledge that I answer every question I am asked in this
hon. House.
I say to the hon. member, there are three hours of Concurrence debate coming
up. There is also going to be, I
believe, about two-and-a-half hours dedicated to debate of Executive Council
Estimates, of which the Office of Public Engagement is a part.
There will be ample time in this House.
I would be happy to answer any of the questions the member has
related to the budget for the Office of Public Engagement.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE:
Mr. Speaker, it is
very clear that being an open, accountable, and transparent government is
not a priority of this government or this minister.
If that was so, he would call an Estimates committee meeting that was
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. MITCHELMORE:
already scheduled
when you have access to ministerial
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. MITCHELMORE:
staff, office
staff, to ask line by line questions.
All other Estimates committee meetings that were scheduled were
debated here in the House of Assembly in committee, and they have been voted
on. This government hallmarks
the Office of Public Engagement, but yet will not bring it into an Estimates
committee meeting where you can have staff and debate that for three hours
in the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. MITCHELMORE:
So I ask the
minister: Will he reconsider his answer and have an Estimates committee
meeting for the Office of Public Engagement?
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. MITCHELMORE:
We should know, and
we should have that ability to question where spending is.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
The
hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
The
minister has clearly articulated the opportunities and abilities that exist
here in the House of Assembly to ask questions.
That opportunity is going to exist, Mr. Speaker, as we go through the
Budget process.
There are many hours of discussion left, Mr. Speaker.
There will be opportunity for open discussion and transparency, and
all the questions they have.
I
can tell you, Mr. Speaker, it is somewhat in contrast to members opposite
who are building a very strong history of secrecy.
They have secret leadership funding.
They have secret $10,000 Toronto balls
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
The secret ball in
Toronto, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Now they are secretly
writing off their debts, Mr. Speaker, and not saying who is responsible.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
When are members
opposite going to start to live by their own policies, Mr. Speaker, and be
open and transparent?
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE:
Mr. Speaker, the only
thing open and transparent about this government is their unwillingness to
be open and transparent for their Open Government Initiative.
Mr.
Speaker, the sunken Manolis L is a
serious threat to our environment and the economy of Newfoundland and
Labrador. Correspondence from
the City of St. John's confirms that the federal government has no intention
of being proactive and remove the 600,000 litres of fuel and oil.
I
ask the Minister of Environment: Has he met personally with the federal
minister, as committed, on May 4, and did he get a commitment to remove that
oil permanently?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Environment and Conservation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. CRUMMELL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, the Opposition continues to play politics with something that
fundamentally everybody in this Province is onside on.
He knows exactly where I stand on this issue.
He knows where everybody on this side of the House stands on this
issue.
I
have spoken with Minister Shea.
I have spoken with Minister Aglukkaq just the other day, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. CRUMMELL:
They are all onside
looking for a long-term solution, Mr. Speaker.
We
need to have timelines built around removing that oil.
That is the solution we are looking for, Mr. Speaker.
We will continue to put their feet to the fire.
A long-term solution is what everybody is looking for.
We will work with the people of the
Province to make sure that happens.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE:
So he has confirmed
for the House that he has not met personally as committed.
Mr.
Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries has not received a response from the LIFO
report given in person five weeks ago, and has been ineffective in getting
the feds to pay for fisheries research, retaining Coast Guard radio, and
keeping valuable halibut quotas.
I ask the minister: Given your
poor track record and inability to get results from DFO, why would the
people of this Province accept that you can deliver on mitigating an oil
spill to protect the commercial fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. GRANTER:
It is interesting, Mr.
Speaker, when he talks about a poor track record.
We talk about the committee that we sit on.
He was hammering and knocking on the door to sit on that committee
with us so it cannot be about a poor track record.
Mr.
Speaker, yes, he is a part of the committee, as well as Members of the Third
Party. We went to Ottawa and we
did a presentation to the hon. federal minister.
We have requested a report back.
We
know that the situation with regard to LIFO this particular year has been
transferred over, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. GRANTER:
We expect a decision to
be made on LIFO from now until the next season starts, Mr. Speaker.
As soon as we get that decision, he will be notified.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Humber East.
MR. FLYNN:
Mr. Speaker, government
announced they were consolidating administrative support functions with the
four health boards and the Centre for Health Information.
They said it would mean a loss of 180 to 230 full-time equivalent
positions. We are hearing
Western Health is going to lose over 100 positions as a result of the
consolidation.
I
ask the minister: Can he confirm
if this is true?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. KENT:
Mr. Speaker, what you are
seeing here today is once again misinformation being spread by members of
the Opposition for their own cheap political gain, and it is offensive.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. KENT:
We have made it clear
what our plan is around a new shared services organization to make our
health care system more efficient and more effective.
I have outlined that there could be a reduction of between 180 and
230 full-time positions system wide, Mr. Speaker.
At this point there is no precise determination on how many positions
will be affected in each region.
This is a plan that will roll out over the next five years towards full
implementation. At the end of
the day, it will allow our regional health authorities to focus on what
matters most, delivering quality health care.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Humber East.
MR. FLYNN:
Mr. Speaker, my colleague
asked about the loss of positions in each region a few weeks ago, and at the
time the minister said the location of the losses has yet to be determined.
People in the region are very concerned about the number of potential
job losses, given the poor track record of promises they have made to the
people of the West Coast.
I
ask the minister: Will he table a list of all the anticipated job losses in
each of the regions as a result of this
AN HON. MEMBER:
Amalgamation.
MR. FLYNN:
amalgamation? Sorry.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Mr. Speaker, a
minister referenced that this is a plan that is expected to roll out over
the next number of years, a five-year period.
We have initiated a number of five-year plans to create efficiencies
in government and government operations.
The people of the Province asked us to find better ways of doing
business, more effective ways
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
to deliver services, and we are doing that.
Instead of laying off people, we are doing it in large numbers in
one day, Mr. Speaker
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
we are laying out
plans, we are developing plans.
We are trying to find, and we will find, the most effective way to do those
back operations, Mr. Speaker, that are most effective, gets best value for
the people of the Province, and will also allow us to continue on delivering
quality health care in Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Mount Pearl South.
MR. LANE:
Mr. Speaker, we have been
informed that Memorial University sets its own parking fines.
Consequently, illegal blue zone parking fines are currently set at
only $20. This creates no
deterrent and is inconsistent with the City of St. John's where fines are
set at $400.
I
ask the minister: Will you direct Memorial University to raise its fines for
illegal blue zone parking to $400 in order to discourage this illegal
activity and ensure proper access for persons with disabilities at MUN?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Service Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. CRUMMELL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, we are absolutely committed to the inclusion of persons with
disabilities in all aspects of our society.
Our government has shown time and time again examples of exactly
that.
Mr.
Speaker, our hiring practice here within government is exemplary right
across this Province. We are
held up as a model to include people in all aspects of our society.
When
it comes to Memorial University, Mr. Speaker, they do have different
statutes that oversee their operation.
We have had consultations with Memorial University and we are looking
at exactly that.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Mount Pearl South.
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
would suggest to the minister that he stop looking and start doing.
When
government brought in its new blue zone parking regulations, it set a range
for fines from $100 to $400.
Despite feedback from disability advocates that an across the Province fine
of $400 should be applied to ensure consistency, government ignored this
good advice. The Province's
three cities did not ignore that advice.
On their own initiative they opted for the higher fine.
I
ask the minister: Will you reconsider your approach and amend the blue zone
parking regulations to reflect higher fines Province-wide for those who
disregard the needs of people with mobility issues?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Service Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. CRUMMELL:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, this past year we partnered with the Coalition of Persons with
Disabilities. We are working
very closely with them on education and awareness when it comes to blue zone
parking. We are hearing
different things out there from the disability community, but that is not
one of the things that I have heard.
Municipalities do have the ability to set their own fines.
That is their right. It
is within their legislation, Mr. Speaker.
We
just increased fines in 2012. We
are satisfied with the level of fines.
We have no plans to change them at this point in time.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's South.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We
are hearing from local food banks that more and more people are showing up
at their doors. We are also
hearing from soup kitchens that more and more people are showing up at their
doors.
The
Newfoundland and Labrador Housing and Homelessness Network has reported a
steady rise in homelessness and hidden homelessness.
In 2003, 300 people; in 2005, 600 people; in 2007, 1,200.
The OrgCode report estimates 5,500 people in 2012.
I
ask the minister: Do you consider this to be a successful outcome of the
Poverty Reduction Strategy, the fact that this number has doubled every two
year?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Seniors, Wellness and Social Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN:
Mr. Speaker, anytime we
hear of people who have to avail of food banks and other people find
themselves in difficult situations, it is certainly something that is cause
for concern.
I
will say that working through the OrgCode, as we have done, working with the
various stakeholders that are involved, we certainly look forward to
improving on those stats, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's South, has time for a quick question.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Rental allowance is not enough to support rental rates
MR. SPEAKER:
The member has time for a
quick question.
MR. OSBORNE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
ask the minister: The number of people who are homeless, are they added into
the statistics of people on social services?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Seniors, Wellness and Social Development, has time for a quick reply.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN:
Mr. Speaker, that is
something I will check into and I will report back to him.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
Yesterday, the Premier declared that we are the only jurisdiction in the
country that does not engage in private-public partnerships, especially in
long-term care. Obviously, he is
not doing his homework.
I
ask the Premier: How can he justify the proposed policy change without a
thorough, transparent investigation into the implications of privatization
of long-term care in this Province when it is now proving to be the wrong
choice elsewhere?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Through this process, we have engaged with Partnerships BC.
It is a Crown corporation of the Province of British Columbia that
have proven that public-private partnerships can be done very, very
successfully, very effectively, and deliver good services to citizens, not
only in British Columbia but in other provinces where Partnerships BC have
partnered with those who have less experience, as we do with such
arrangements, Mr. Speaker.
We
have engaged with them because they have a considerable depth of knowledge
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
and have had great
success in public-private partnerships, Mr. Speaker.
They are giving us good advice and leadership on the development of
long-term care.
We
know that long-term care is required in our Province.
We know we need more long-term care to alleviate the backlogs in our
hospitals, Mr. Speaker, and we are moving forward to provide better services
to those in hospital, and need hospital beds, and also to our aging
population.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I
ask the Premier why he has not taken time to study the reports of the
Auditor Generals of Ontario and Saskatchewan not the companies that are
involved in the delivery of private operations indicating that
private-public partnerships are not working economically or any other way in
those provinces?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
I
can tell you that the department, the minister, and government have looked
closely at the experiences in other provinces.
As I have said, and I have just clearly articulated here moments ago,
we are partnering with Partnerships BC that have a good track record, Mr.
Speaker. They have a wealth of
experience and knowledge. As a
result of that, they provided a very good plan and a very good partnership
model that we are following.
This
is about long-term care for our aging population, Mr. Speaker.
This is about alleviating people who are sitting in stretchers in
emergency rooms because there is not an acute care bed available. This is
about people who have surgeries cancelled because there is not an acute care
bed available.
We
all know there are backlogs in hospitals.
Roughly 15 per cent of acute care beds are being occupied by the
people who require an alternative level of care.
Our project is going to ensure that those alternative levels of care
are available, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL:
Mr. Speaker, I ask the
Premier: Does he stand by his minister's scathing attack on the workers in
our health care system which is being used to justify the privatization of
long-term care?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Mr. Speaker, the
member opposite is well aware that I, myself
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
PREMIER DAVIS:
the Minister of
Health, and ministers in my government have stood here in this House on
countless occasions and praised the work of public servants in Newfoundland
and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
I have done it over
and over and over again. I have
stood here right in this House, Mr. Speaker, and I have done it.
I have done it publicly and I have conveyed the same sentiments to
public servants themselves.
We
hold our public servants in high regard.
They provide good services to the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador, Mr. Speaker. It has
nothing to do with what the member opposite is talking about unfortunately.
We do great work.
I
tell you our hospitals are second to none, our health care is second to
none. Our doctors do good.
Our nurses do good. The
professionals who work in health care do a fabulous job and they provide
good care to the people of the Province, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's Centre.
MS ROGERS:
Mr. Speaker, when we all
leave here this evening we all have a home to go to.
Many at-risk youth who age out of care end up in the most deplorable
boarding houses where they are in danger.
Their places are like your worst nightmare.
Does the minister even know how many vulnerable youth are living in these
unsafe conditions?
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
Mr. Speaker, housing
and homelessness is a significant issue.
I can tell you it is a matter for us, and it is a priority for us as
a government. I can tell you we
do significant work in dealing with people who need assistance and support
in housing, and not only just the housing itself, but individuals need
assistance and support in maintaining housing.
We
have partnered with numerous organizations throughout the Province, Mr.
Speaker, especially for young people.
The member brings up the youth in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Choices for Youth is probably the best example I can come up with.
It is a fabulous organization, Mr. Speaker.
It takes young people who need supports and assistance in
Newfoundland and Labrador. I can
tell you they have countless success stories of turning around the lives of
young Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, not giving them a handout, but
giving them a hand up, and they become contributing members to society.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
PREMIER DAVIS:
We have many partners
that do the same
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
The
time for Question Period has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Presenting Reports
by Standing and Select Committees
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Bonavista North.
MR. CROSS:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The
Resource Committee has considered the matters to them referred and have
directed me to report that they have passed without amendment, Estimates of
Department of Advanced Education and Skills, Department of Business,
Tourism, Culture and Rural Development, Department of Environment and
Conservation and Office of Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, the
Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Forestry and Agrifoods Agency,
and the Department of Natural Resources.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
Further presenting
reports?
Tabling of Documents.
Tabling of
Documents
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Child, Youth and Family Services.
MR. S. COLLINS:
Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
I am
pleased to stand today in this hon. House to table the 2014 Annual
Performance Report of the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation
Commission.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER:
Further tabling of
documents?
Notices of Motion.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government
House Leader.
MR. KING:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice under Standing Order 11 that the House will not adjourn at
5:30 p.m. on Monday, June 1, 2015.
I
further give notice under Standing Order 11 that the House not adjourn at
10:00 p.m. on Tuesday, June 1, 2015.
MR. SPEAKER:
Further notices of
motion?
MR. DALLEY:
A point of order, Mr.
Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources, standing on a Point of Order?
MR. DALLEY:
Yes please.
Mr.
Speaker, in Question Period as much fun as it was, there was some
information that I conveyed around a question from the Leader of the
Opposition. We talked about the
wood chip plant on the Northern Peninsula.
I
had indicated, Mr. Speaker, that the PUB approved the sale in 2000.
It started under the Liberal government, the sale process, but it was
not sold until 2011.
So
it was our Administration but it started under the Liberal Administration,
Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. DALLEY:
The process never got
done for ten years. I certainly
would like to apologize to the Leader of the Opposition because we believe
that the information should be accurate.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
There is no point of order.
The
hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING:
Mr. Speaker, with the
House's indulgence I gave a notice of motion, but
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
The
hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
With
the House's indulgence I just want to clarify a notice of motion I just gave
around the closure of the House at 5:30 p.m. Monday, June 1.
I think I inadvertently said 10:00 p.m. on Tuesday.
The intention was not to sit from Monday to Tuesday night.
So it is 10:00 p.m. Monday night 5:30 p.m. Monday and 10:00 p.m.
Monday.
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER:
Thank you.
Further notices of motion?
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
To
the House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MS MICHAEL:
the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS privatized nursing homes lower operating costs by paying lower
wages, de-unionizing, laying people off, and cutting staff in these
facilities; and
WHEREAS studies have established that for-profit nursing homes are
associated with lower quality of services and poorer resident health
outcomes, including an increased risk of hospitalization; and
WHEREAS Auditors General of the provinces of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and
Ontario have reported that P3s cost taxpayers more;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge government to immediately stop the privatization
of long-term care.
And
as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
I am
very pleased, Mr. Speaker, to stand today on behalf of the people who have
signed this petition. They come
from Central Newfoundland, from Grand Falls, and from Lewisporte it seems
from these two communities: Grand Falls-Windsor and Lewisporte.
They
are expressing a concern that I personally have expressed here in this House
I questioned the Premier on it today the concern that people have
throughout the Province, and the concern that this government needs to hear.
Sometimes we stand to present a petition, whether or not we agree
with it, because it is our obligation to do that.
I agree with this petition, Mr. Speaker.
We
have reports that have been done here in Canada and reports that have been
done in Great Britain that show us why P3s do not work, Mr. Speaker.
The report I have in my hand is a report that has been done in
England. This study shows that
without any doubt there are many points about P3s that do not work.
One is that the private sector does
not assume the risk. The
governments assumes the risk, they assume all of the risk.
If things go bad, the private sector can walk away and leave the
government holding what they were once running.
P3s
do not guarantee better value for the money.
That has been proven, one of the reasons being they are for profit.
So, part of the money that comes in has to go to help them make money
for themselves and for their shareholders.
Another thing that studies show is that the normal public sector option is
not always considered. What
happens is we stop going for what we always did, which is our public option,
and P3s become the norm.
Another thing is that P3s are not better at finishing projects on time or on
budget than ordinary contracts.
We actually have examples of that here in Canada.
If the Province and if the Premier would only study the reports in
some of the other provinces they would find that is the case.
They do not necessarily finish projects on time.
Also, the rules of P3s do not ensure complete transparency.
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
I
remind the member her time has expired.
MS MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Trinity Bay de Verde.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To
the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS many communities in the District of Trinity Bay de Verde do not
have cellphone coverage; and
WHEREAS residents of the district require cellphone
coverage to ensure their safety and communications abilities; and
WHEREAS cellphone coverage on many portions of the
highway in the district is very poor or non-existent;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly
pray and call upon the House of Assembly to urge the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador to work with the appropriate agencies to provide
adequate cellphone coverage throughout the entire District of Trinity Bay
de Verde.
As in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to stand this afternoon
and enter this petition on behalf of the residents of Trinity Bay de
Verde. I have entered this
petition probably at least a half a dozen times, and I will continue to do
so.
The government has to realize they have a role to play
in cellphone coverage in our Province, Mr. Speaker.
It was quite evident this week in a statement made by the Member for
Lake Melville that the government is not taking this situation seriously.
Just back a couple of days ago in debate, the member
said, When you are dealing with large urban centres and there are markets
in there for cost recovery for the companies, it is very easy to get the
investment in those types of districts when you want to expand coverage.
As you get out into the more rural areas, Mr. Speaker,
everybody knows it is exponential, that graph, that costing model is going
to go through the roof, because when you get out there you need to engage
the federal government
. Now,
Mr. Speaker, that is an interesting statement from the Member for Lake
Melville that we need to engage the federal government.
I have an ATIPP request here from February 12, 2015.
The requestor is asking the Province, I am requesting, under the
Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, any briefing notes
regarding cellular coverage in Newfoundland and Labrador, since January 1,
2014. Almost eighteen months,
Mr. Speaker. They want to know
what the Department of Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural Development is
doing when it comes to cellphone coverage in the Province and the
communications with the federal government.
The Member for Lake Melville clearly says we need to
engage the federal government.
In an eighteen month period, here is what the ATIPP request found.
Through our search we have found no responsive records that directly
address your request
. So in
eighteen months, Mr. Speaker, the Province has not spoken to the federal
government.
Now, the Member for Lake Melville admits that we need
to speak to the federal government.
Why aren't we doing it?
Why aren't we going to the feds?
Why aren't we saying to the federal government, it is time for you to play a
role in cellphone coverage in our Province?
He also goes on to say, I tell you what you get.
You get the complaints over here
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
I remind the member his time has expired.
MR. CROCKER:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.
MR. HILLIER:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
A
petition to the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents
of Newfoundland and Labrador humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS the Town of Conception Bay South is the second largest municipality
in the Province with a population of approximately 26,000 people; and
WHEREAS recent dangerous incidents on community streets have highlighted
concerns of high speed and inadequate traffic control in Conception Bay
South; and
WHEREAS residents, organized groups and the town continue to raise awareness
about pedestrian safety along main streets and the lack of police presence
in the town;
We
the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to urge government to review
the level of policing in Conception Bay South with an objective to increase
policing services and improving public safety for residents.
Mr.
Speaker, this is a petition that I brought forward on any number of
occasions and I will continue to bring forward on behalf of the people of
Conception Bay South.
I
would like to first point out, Mr. Speaker, that in no way am I criticizing
the work the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary do in the Town of Conception
Bay South. They continually
present themselves in a most professional manner as they go about their
daily work. Mr. Speaker, in
speaking with residents I feel the issue here is tied more to a degree of
policing perception of residents in not seeing a police presence in their
neighbourhoods and in the community.
Mr.
Speaker, the Premier should be fully aware of these issues.
He is a former member of the RNC.
He was a ward councillor in the Town of Conception Bay South, and
also the MHA for Topsail. He has
been kept in the loop regarding council's concerns regarding policing in the
town. As late as in the last
couple of weeks, the mayor of our town expressed concerns on the Conception
Bay South Bypass when we had several serious accidents within a matter of a
couple of days.
Mr.
Speaker, this petition came about as a result of speeding and dangerous
driving in our community. Route
60 and the Foxtrap Access Road, we have eight schools on those two highways.
That is students walking 1.6 kilometres or miles every morning on
these highways, poor shoulders, very little room to walk and, unfortunately,
people disregard the speed limits and residents are concerned that they are
not seeing a police presence there to get involved.
Mr.
Speaker, at one point in time the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary had a
neighbourhood policing office in the Town of Conception Bay South, that has
since closed. It closed in 2013,
and there is no indication that it will reopen at any time soon.
The
Minister of Justice talks about the philosophy of policing.
Mr. Speaker, I ask government to look into the perception
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
I
remind the member his time has expired.
MR. HILLIER:
of the low degree of
policing in our town.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. John's East.
MR. MURPHY:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
To
the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly
sheweth:
WHEREAS in 2011 the provincial government announced that it would life the 8
per cent provincial portion of the HST on residential heat and light by
introducing the Residential Energy Rebate; and
WHEREAS heat is a necessity of life and a health concern, particularly for
seniors; and
WHEREAS the provincial government has projected oil prices to increase in
the next five years;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge government to stop taxing home energy and to
reverse its decision to abolish the Residential Energy Rebate;
As
in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr.
Speaker, I anticipate that I will be getting a few of these petitions in the
mail. This one comes from the
residents of Bird Cove, and I am pleased to say that to a T they have signed
this petition calling upon government to reconsider its decision to get rid
of the Residential Energy Rebate program.
Mr.
Speaker, when we heard about it in 2011, that the government will no longer
be applying the provincial tax to a portion of everybody's home energy, I
think it was a great day. It was
a good decision that government made.
They listened to this side of the House.
They listened to about 55,000 residents who had signed a petition
initially in 2001 to have the necessity, we know as heat and light, not to
be taxed.
Having said that, we do know government has done other things at the same
time. They have decided to come
out and expand on the HST rebate to some families.
As one person said to me, they said they would rather see government
outside of their own pockets in the first place by having government
actually give back a little bit of money, rather than giving them the full
amount of money they would have deserved in the first place.
They are a lot less well off than what they would be had the tax gone
the other way.
So,
Mr. Speaker, it is going to be a couple of more times that I will be
presenting this petition in the House, again asking government to reconsider
its motion to get rid of the Residential Energy Rebate.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. MURPHY:
I will table this on
behalf of the people of Bird Cove.
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
The Straits White Bay North.
MR. MITCHELMORE:
To the hon. House of
Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament
assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS government has a responsibility to ensure that Internet access is
broadly available so that people have the right to be able to access the
Internet in order to exercise and enjoy their rights to freedom of
expression and opinion and other fundamental human rights; and
WHEREAS the Town of Goose Cove still remains without broadband services; and
WHEREAS residents rely on Internet services for education, business,
communication, and social activity; and
WHEREAS wireless and wired technologies exist to provide broadband service
to rural communities to replace slower dial-up service;
We,
the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to urge the government to
assist providers to ensure the Town of Goose Cove is in receipt of broadband
Internet services in Newfoundland and Labrador
And
as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr.
Speaker, this petition once again is signed by all residents of Goose Cove,
quite a number of people. All
residents, I believe, in the community of Goose Cove have reached out to my
office at one point or another, or in form of a petition, via a telephone
call, Facebook post or message you know reaching out in some way, shape,
or form, however they can, to highlight their concerns, whether it is
through a friend's house, family house, or at the public library.
Sometimes the Internet service is so poor in their own community, which is a
municipality. You would think
that greater preference would be given to municipalities that are trying to
deliver services and deal with public infrastructure that have taxpaying
citizens, for those services that are there and they are not being looked
at. They are going to be some of
the last communities to receive broadband Internet.
We are not talking about miles here.
It is not an exponential distance.
The
Town of Goose Cove is only seven-point- something kilometres away from St.
Anthony. It is not an
exceptional distance. It is not
a huge barrier. There are a
couple of hundred-plus people who live in that community, eighty-four
households. I see that we need
to advance telecommunications there.
There is a real reason for it, from a municipal perspective, from a
residential perspective, and from a business perspective.
So I
say, Mr. Speaker, with the federal Broadband Canada program, with provincial
rural broadband and carryover dollars, and the provincial providers that
offer this service interested in providing broadband, I see no reason why
the barrier is there. We should
form that partnership, we should be collaborative, and we should allow our
communities to thrive. Not just
survive, they should thrive and develop and be around for the long term.
I
petition and put that out on behalf of my constituents.
It is not the first time and it probably will not be the last time.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
St. George's Stephenville East.
MR. REID:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
have a petition on health care from the residents of Heatherton to
Highlands, Mr. Speaker.
The
petition reads: To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the
undersigned humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS there has not been a permanent doctor in the clinic in Jeffrey's for
almost a year; and
WHEREAS the absence of a permanent doctor is seriously compromising the
health care of people who live in the Heatherton to Highlands area and
causing them undue hardships; and
WHEREAS the absence of a doctor or nurse practitioner in the area leaves
seniors without a consistency and quality of care which is necessary for
their continued good health;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to
take action which will result in a permanent doctor, or other arrangements,
to improve the health care services in the Heatherton to Highlands area.
Mr.
Speaker, this is a situation that has gone on for quite a while now in this
area. The petition says over a
year, but the petition was circulated earlier.
It has been about a year-and-a-half now since there has been a
permanent doctor in the clinic at Jeffrey's.
It is a serious situation that has gone on for quite a while, too
long. It is a serious matter
when people do not have access to primary health care such as a doctor in
their community.
The
same situation exists in the community of St. George's.
For the last six months they have not had a permanent doctor there.
Mr. Speaker, the absence of these doctors is having implications for
the hospital in Stephenville, in the emergency room.
People do not have a doctor in their own community.
They have to travel a long distance and wait for long periods of time
in the waiting room in Stepehnville to see a doctor.
It
is not blowing it out of proportion to say that this is a health care crisis
in the Stephenville, Bay St. George area.
It is a situation that needs to be addressed.
It has gone on for too long.
People have to wait long periods of time before they can get their
tests back for serious illnesses.
They have to travel long distances to have simple things like a
prescription filled, Mr. Speaker.
It is a serious matter that has gone on too long.
People are actually thinking of leaving the rural areas of the district
because of the lack of good medical care in that area, Mr. Speaker.
I have talked to several constituents who have told me stories about
their grandparents who have had to travel long distances and wait in waiting
rooms in Stephenville.
It
is a crisis and I hope that it is addressed soon, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER:
Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government
House Leader.
MR. KING:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
move, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the House do not adjourn at 5:30
p.m. today, Thursday, May 28, 2015.
MR. SPEAKER:
The motion is that the
House do not adjourn at 5:30 p.m. today.
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
The
motion is carried.
The
hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
move to Motion 8, I move, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that the House not
adjourn this evening at 10:00 p.m., Thursday, May 28, 2015.
MR. SPEAKER:
The motion is that this
House not adjourn at 10:00 p.m. today.
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
Carried.
The
hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. KING:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
At
this time I would like to call from the Order Paper, second reading, number
four, An Act To Amend The Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador Atlantic Accord
Implementation Newfoundland And Labrador Act, Bill 2.
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It
is certainly a pleasure to stand today as Minister of Natural Resources to
speak to Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador
Atlantic Accord Implementation Newfoundland and Labrador Act.
Mr.
Speaker, this act applies to our offshore
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
I
would ask the minister to move the second reading of the act, as the first
order of business.
MR. DALLEY:
I move, seconded by the
Minister of Health and Community Services, that it be now read a second
time.
MR. SPEAKER:
It is moved and seconded
that Bill 2, An Act To Amend The Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador Atlantic
Accord Implementation Newfoundland And Labrador Act, be now read a second
time.
Motion, second reading of a bill, An Act To Amend The Canada-Newfoundland
and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Newfoundland And Labrador Act.
(Bill 2)
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Minister of
Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. DALLEY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I apologize again on behalf of our House Leader.
Today, Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Natural Resources, I have an
opportunity to speak to a piece of legislation that has been around for some
time, I guess, with respect to our offshore, but there are improvements in
our offshore. It is an
opportunity to share with the people of the Province as to what we are
putting forward today. Hopefully
we will get support as well from the other side.
Mr.
Speaker, over the past number of years we have taken significant steps to
improve the regulatory system in our offshore and to ensure that our
offshore workers operate in a safe environment.
I have said it many times in this House and I know all members of
the House our offshore is important to the Province, but we also know,
more importantly, the people working in our offshore are most important.
Offshore safety or anything we can do to improve our offshore is important.
As I said, we have made some initiatives, Mr. Speaker, around
occupational health and safety to improve the working environments
recognizing it is a risky work environment.
Today, I want to turn our attention to modernizing our liability
regime.
Newfoundland and Labrador's environmental record, Mr. Speaker, over the past
twenty years in the offshore has been outstanding overall.
We have a strong record, but it is important that, as a government,
we continue to focus on the offshore, the environmental risk and the
responsibilities in the offshore, in making sure that we have a world-class
liability regime in our offshore.
Mr.
Speaker, this comes to light I think most of the people would recall the
issue in the Gulf of Mexico back in 2010 when they had a major oil spill.
Some 4.9 million barrels of oil created quite a mess, quite a scene.
At that time it was a tragic event.
Eleven people had died.
Oil was spilling for some eighty-seven days.
Not only was the offshore engaged, but the entire world was engaged
to try and deal with that environmental tragedy in the Gulf of Mexico.
It
was some $40 billion cost to get it all cleaned up with the liabilities,
recognizing of course, Mr. Speaker, as well to point out that it is very
close to shore. It was just some
forty-one miles from offshore.
We are talking about, in our offshore development, some 300 to 500
kilometres offshore.
Nonetheless, the environment is important.
It is important that we look at how we are going to do things to
ensure that operators in our offshore are responsible for the work they do
and we are able, collectively, to find ways to protect the environment.
Mr.
Speaker, as a result of what happened in the Gulf of Mexico, the federal
government, and indeed many jurisdictions went back and reviewed their
liability levels and looked at international requirements.
We have had a Turner report here as well in the Province that made
some recommendations around offshore liability.
Natural Resources Canada has been involved.
We have been involved.
The Government of Nova Scotia has been involved.
As
well, the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development with
the federal Auditor General's Office has also made comment around offshore
liability, Mr. Speaker. As a
result of that, collectively, between the provincial government, the Nova
Scotia government, and the federal government, we have come together to
strengthen the offshore liability.
The
reason we are all involved, Mr. Speaker, is because we are all partners
here. The C-NLOPB, the
Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board, is a joint board
between the federal government and Newfoundland and Labrador.
So we share that joint responsibility.
In
Nova Scotia, they have a similar board where they share with the federal
government. As a result of that,
what we are seeing in terms of looking at offshore liability is that all
three entities, Mr. Speaker, have been involved in trying to develop a
stronger liability regime for the Newfoundland and Labrador offshore, and
indeed for the Nova Scotia offshore, with the support of the federal
government.
Mr.
Speaker, many would recall that this was announced back in June of 2013 that
the boards would come together to develop a new joint policy.
It was announced in 2013 about how this would look.
We would collectively harmonize our legislation between Nova Scotia,
Newfoundland and Labrador, and the federal government.
Nova
Scotia and the federal government, Mr. Speaker, have already had their
legislation put through. It has
received Royal Assent. What we
are bringing forward here today is essentially mirror legislation to what
the federal government has developed.
We have been a part of that process.
I would like to lay out some of the things that we can anticipate
going forward, what the companies would expect, and more importantly, what
we are prepared to lay out to ensure we enhance and strengthen the support
for environmental responsibility in our offshore.
Right now, Mr. Speaker, essentially, one of the biggest issues with this
current legislation is that the liabilities around an oil spill there are
two aspects to it. There is what
we call absolute liability.
Right now that is capped at $100 million.
Companies are required to provide a letter of credit upfront for $30
million which allowed the C-NLOBP to have immediate access to that amount of
money in the event of a spill.
Beyond that, Mr. Speaker, they have to provide some sort of promissory note
of around $70 million that could also be accessed in the event of a spill.
That is absolute. That is
without determining fault or negligence.
Built into the legislation once fault or negligence has been
determined, it is unlimited liability.
For now, it is $30 million upfront in a credit, and a $70 million
promissory note. Beyond that,
with the proof of fault or negligence, there is unlimited liability.
Mr.
Speaker, what we are proposing through the amendments to the legislation is
that we would amend the Newfoundland and Labrador accord act to include the
following provisions. One key
important issue that we have heard discussed before in this House is the
issue of polluter pays. That is
in the current act, but it is not as clear and pointed as we would like it
to be.
The
amendments will establish the polluter pays principle explicitly, Mr.
Speaker, so that it is not open for interpretation.
We will also increase the absolute liability to $1 billion.
We will move from $100 million to $1 billion.
That is absolute liability without any proof of fault or negligence.
Companies in our offshore operating will be required to provide proof
that they can have the financial capacity and demonstrate that so they can
handle an absolute liability of $1 billion.
The
deposit, Mr. Speaker, currently is $30 million.
The deposit under the new amendments would be $100 million.
The opportunity will be there for the operators to create an industry
fund, a pooled fund of $250 million that can be drawn down on as well.
Mr.
Speaker, the other aspect that is being proposed is that we are going to
ensure that the operators are responsible for liabilities incurred by their
contractors. The operators who
operate out there will contract others to come in and be a part of their
work, but the responsibility and the liability will rest with the operator.
If the operator has an issue with a contractor through fault or
negligence, it will be a requirement of the operator to deal with the
contractor, not the C-NLOPB or government.
The C-NLOPB will deal with the operator.
Those are some changes that we will see.
I will get into a few more in probably a little more detail.
One
of the other aspects of the current act, Mr. Speaker, that we would like to
see changed are issues around improving transparency and the clarity of the
operations. One of the things
that will be added here in this amendment is permitting the use of
spill-treating agents, STAs. It
is disbursements that will be allowed to be used in the offshore.
I will speak to that.
They will not arbitrarily be allowed to go make these decisions because we
are looking to protect the environment and look at the net impact of
environment. That is an issue
with spill-treating agents, but again it is another tool that will be
provided to operators in the event of a spill that will allow them, with
proper approvals, to be able to deal with a potential spill.
The
other amendment we will make, Mr. Speaker, is to create a situation where
the C-NLOPB can release some of the information, particularly around spill
response and emergency response plans.
Currently under the act, they are not permitted to do so without
consent from the other side.
This will allow them to release information to the public, but also to the
federal government, or to share with other governments, and share with the
Nova Scotia board.
Down
the road, Mr. Speaker, if we potentially get more development in the Gulf
region where we will have transboundaries, there will be an opportunity for
sharing. Right now under the act
you cannot do that. We will make
some changes to allow them to share information.
Mr.
Speaker, as well, through some changes through the federal environmental
act, we will make amendments here now to allow the C-NLOPB to be a
responsible authority to deliver and engage in environmental assessments.
So, it will designate the C-NLOPB to be an environmental agent, to be
able to do the assessments as a regulatory body involved with the offshore.
Let
me speak about, Mr. Speaker, some of the drill down a little bit into some
of these amendments for clarity, and I am sure if there are any questions
later we will get to them.
Again, explicitly we are going to we are making amendments here to
reference polluter pays, to make sure that is clearly defined.
We
are changing the absolute liability from $100 million to $1 billion, but it
is remaining in place right now, as it is in the current act.
Despite the amendments, this is going to stay the same, is that the
at-fault or negligence, once it is determined, it is unlimited liability.
So, regardless of what is upfront, the billion dollars upfront if
it is $2 billion, or it is $20 billion, Mr. Speaker, whatever might be the
case, once fault and negligence has been proven, then the company, the
operators, will be required to be responsible for damages.
As
well, Mr. Speaker, as part of the amendments, the proof of financial
resources, because sometimes companies come in and they have to provide
proof of the financial resources around the absolute liability; even if they
do their work and they did not find oil, and they cap and move on, there is
still a responsibility to keep the financial resources in place for a year
after, just in case there is any environmental issues.
It is just added protection there.
So, once they are gone from a site, or if they did some work and they
were unsuccessful in finding oil, they would still have to keep their
financial resources in place for a year.
The
other issue here is around the absolute liability, because there would be a
little bit of debate, Mr. Speaker, one way or the other, whether it is an
opportunity to increase the liability, or decrease the liability, in the
event of a smaller company or a different situation.
There are provisions there to do that, but it is very strict in that
the board can consider whether they need to increase liability, or if there
is a situation where they feel the risk is minimal, an opportunity to
decrease liability.
That
provision alone will involve the signature of the Minister of Natural
Resources for the Province, as well as the Minister of Natural Resources for
the federal government. So there
is a fairly rigorous process there, Mr. Speaker, in the event that some
flexibility may be needed, but the intent of the amendment is to ensure
there is added strength to environmental protection in the offshore with the
absolute liability at $1 billion.
Within that $1 billion, as I said, they have to provide financial proof for
the $1 billion, but upfront they will have to provide a letter of credit for
$100 million. So that has moved
from $30 million to $100 million.
They also have the option, if they want to create an industry-pooled
fund of $250 million where operators get together and create that pool,
either way the C-NLOPB will still have immediate and unfettered access to
the $100 million or the $250 million in the pooled fund.
I
will move on here, Mr. Speaker.
Another point that is covered under the amendments is the recovery of loss.
Again, learning from what took place in the Gulf of Mexico, it is a
$40 billion cost, because in the event of an oil spill there are multiple
things to consider. Not the
least of which is the value relating to public resources, the impact on the
fishery, the impact on tourism.
All of that, Mr. Speaker, can have a significant impact in the event of an
oil spill, as we saw in the Gulf of Mexico.
We
are making some amendments here, Mr. Speaker.
That companies or persons who are at fault, or negligence is
attributable to some of their actions, once it is determined we have fault
or negligence, they are also responsible for any actual loss or damage
incurred by any person, the costs and expenses reasonably incurred.
Whether it is by the board, by the federal government, or by the
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and they are also responsible for
the loss of non-use value relating to a public resource that is affected by
a spill or the authorized discharge, emission, or escape of petroleum as a
result of their action.
That
means, essentially, that even though you have the $1 billion absolute, if
fault and negligence is proven, then they are also responsible for the other
costs that are related, not just to the cleanup.
We are also going to protect the economic value that could be lost as
a result of a spill.
With
respect to the spill-treating agents, there are a few points here that are
very important. Currently, it is
not authorized to use spill-treating agents in our offshore, nor are you
arbitrarily going to be able to.
The amendments will provide the opportunity or permit the use, Mr. Speaker,
where it is likely in using spill-treating agents there will be a net
environmental benefit.
That
is important to consider, because if you are going to add chemicals to clean
up chemicals, then you have to be responsible and concerned about that.
It has to be evaluated that if there is a net environmental benefit
and it is a tool that can work, and it is a tool Mr. Speaker,
spill-treating agent disbursements were actually used in the Gulf of Mexico,
but there is a process.
It
is important to note, Mr. Speaker, the spill-treating agents will be
established by the federal Minister of Environment.
It is not done in the Province or by the C-NLOPB.
It will be done by the federal Minister of Environment, but the
regulations respecting the spill-treating agents will be made by the federal
Minister of Natural Resources, the federal Minister of Environment, and
through my department, Natural Resources.
There will be input, and no doubt our own Department of Environment will be
engaged as well. The federal
minister will identify the spill-treating agents and then the regulations
will be developed by the various levels of government and departments that
are involved and responsible.
The
other thing that is built in here, Mr. Speaker, is that in the event of a
spill, if a company wants to use a spill-treating agent, first they have to
get permission from the C-NLOPB.
They have to do a small-scale test, do some scientific research, Mr.
Speaker, and provide proof.
There has to be a test. There is
an element there to make a request to the board, test it, and prove it
before you can use it on a larger scale.
Another amendment we are making and proposing here today is through the
addition of, I guess, another regulatory compliance tool where the board
right now has a responsibility to ensure compliance of legislation and
regulations with the offshore.
Mr. Speaker, they do not have a lot of tools to force this.
If you are not in complaint, really the only hammer they have is to
take the license and shut down production.
We
all know, Mr. Speaker, in the event of that, there are people laid off.
It has an impact on provincial revenues.
It has an impact on a company, besides the actual logistics of
operations. What we have done
here, Mr. Speaker, we have modelled after the National Energy Board Act for
non-accord areas under the administrative jurisdiction of the National
Energy Board. What we are doing
is adding in penalties for violations.
If
we have a company that is in violation and it may not be a significant
violation, maybe something just small, but at the same time it is important
that we strengthen the ability of C-NLOPB to ensure that companies are
compliant but at what cost and how do you do that?
One thing we have added here, Mr. Speaker, is that penalties for a
violation for individuals will be up to $25,000, or in the case of a company
up to $100,000.
Again, the intent here, $25,000 for an individual who is at fault, or a
company who is noncompliant, it is not about punishing or trying to collect
money; but it is about trying to promote compliance, that there is something
else there to consider. Again,
it may be relatively insignificant, but it is incumbent on the board and the
expectation, Mr. Speaker, that the laws, the rules, the regulations, the
guidelines that are in place are going to have to be followed.
That is another piece that will be added through this amendment.
The
other point that I made earlier is that the board will be designated a
responsible authority under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, 2012.
They will be given that authority to conduct public hearings in
relation to its powers and performance of its duties as they engage in
environmental assessment; and if they do, they have twelve months to provide
a statement on any EA application, Mr. Speaker.
As well, they will establish a fund to facilitate public
participation in the EAs.
Basically, the board does some strategic environmental assessments now and
with the change to the act we will revert to they were taken out for some
reason in 2012, but the boards will go back now as the regulator responsible
for environmental assessments as well.
Mr.
Speaker, I want to point out that does not absolve the responsibility of the
provincial Department of Environment or the federal Department of
Environment and their acts, and the requirements for environmental
assessments and so on. That is
still in place. We are not
changing that. All we are doing
here, with the co-operation of the federal government, and under the
Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, is adding some responsibility to the
C-NLOPB, both in terms of functionality and efficiency, Mr. Speaker, as well
as a regulator to be able to work through the environmental aspects of any
application or development plan that may come forward from operators.
All
of this stuff, particularly four areas around cost recovery and financial
responsibility, the monetary penalties that I talked about and the
spill-treating agents, that will come together under regulations.
That will be laid out under the regulations.
The laws around that are the regulations have to be in place one year
of the federal bill coming into Royal Assent.
I think that was February 26, so we have until February 26 of next
year, collectively, to work together with the federal government and the
Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board to harmonize the legislation, try and
harmonize our regulations and guidelines there may be some changes with
guidelines, Mr. Speaker, depending on Nova Scotia and where we are in terms
of development of our offshore.
That is the intent and the regulations are being worked on now.
The federal government is leading this.
We are working with them, but again it should be in place by February
26.
Mr.
Speaker, those are the number of amendments that are laid out here, and I
know when we provided briefings to the Opposition, one of the issues raised
was around the release of information.
Based on what was in the act and the fact that we have new ATIPP
legislation and access to information of how that would be interpreted and
where would you go if you could not get information, if it was denied, we
looked into that as well.
Currently under the act, under section 115(2), the act severely restricts
the C-NLOPB to releasing information to the public.
It is very clear in the act.
When we look at that, Mr. Speaker
AN HON. MEMBER:
(Inaudible).
MR. DALLEY:
What it means is they
cannot release information obviously, commercial or scientific
information, they are still not in a position to release publicly, but there
is other information that they may want to release with respect to emergency
response plans, spill response plans filed by the operators.
They cannot share that information under the current act.
Mr.
Speaker, when we looked at the work of Mr. Wells and the commission, with
respect to this act, they were very clear.
They were very clear that section 115(2) of the current Accord Act
should continue to prevail over ATIPPA.
Basically they said that is okay.
That should be allowed to stay there.
They should have the right and that should stay in there.
What we have done in discussion with the board as well and in the
interests around some of this information is that we will increase, through
amendments, the ability of the board to release more information around
spill plans or response plans and so on.
Mr.
Speaker, in doing that, in changing it, I guess the issue then becomes if
someone wants to challenge that when the board says yes or no, where do you
have to go to challenge it whether you go to the Privacy Commissioner in
this Province or you go the Privacy Commissioner of the federal government.
We have checked into that, Mr. Speaker, both here and federally as
well. The information we have
been given is that if you want to challenge this under ATIPP, you would have
to challenge it under the federal ATIPP legislation and the federal Privacy
Commissioner because the boards are set up under the federal legislation.
There is an avenue. Essentially
what we have done here, despite the position of Mr. Wells and the
commission, we are going to make some amendments.
Again, this is mirror legislation with respect to the federal
government and Nova Scotia, consultations with the board themselves being
able to release some information.
We are providing some flexibility there to be able to do that.
As well, just to point out that should there be some issue with that
then you have to deal with the federal Privacy Commissioner, there is an
avenue available and that is what we have been advised.
Again, understanding that this mirrors legislation with the federal
government, Nova Scotia, and ourselves involving the C-NLOPB.
So it is a group that have joint responsibilities here.
That
highlights, Mr. Speaker, what the new amendments are.
I think if we look at what we have seen in the development of our
offshore, we have had twenty good years for the most part in our offshore.
There are some issues.
There are always risks, and what we are doing today in bringing forward new
legislation that has been worked on since June 2013 is to find a way to
strengthen our offshore, always looking for new ways, whether it is land
tenure, whether it is schedule, whether is occupational health and safety
and this piece is about environment, strengthening the obligation and
responsibility of operators in our offshore, protecting our environment,
protecting the economic opportunities that exist.
That
is what this legislation is about.
That is what the spirit of it is about.
I think it is very progressive.
I think it is very good for our offshore.
We have so much potential in our offshore.
We have 5 per cent under licence; there are over 1 million square
kilometres out there, a tremendous amount of seismic work going to happen
over the summer. We believe and
we are confident that the work that has been done we have much, much more
activity that is going to take place in our offshore and, collectively, we
have to hold up to our responsibility as well to do all we can to protect
what takes place in our offshore for many, many different reasons.
This
legislation does that, and hopefully we will have the support of the
Opposition as well. Again, I
emphasize the fact that it has already been given Royal Assent in Ottawa, it
has already got Royal Assent in Nova Scotia, and hopefully in a few days we
will have Royal Assent here, and again strengthen the environmental
protection in our offshore.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER (Littlejohn):
The hon. the
Member for Mount Pearl South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It
is certainly an honour to stand in this hon. House today and speak to Bill
2, An Act to Amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord
Implementation Newfoundland and Labrador Act.
It is quite a mouthful.
Mr.
Speaker, first of all, I just want to say upfront that I am certainly 100
per cent in support of this piece of legislation, of these amendments.
So, I look forward to taking my time now to expound upon that and
talk about all the reasons why I am supportive of it and sort of go through
some of the points here.
Regardless what piece of legislation it is, I think it is important that we
all do our due diligence. We
certainly saw that in this House of Assembly it was before my time, but I
can remember something about an expropriation of a mill and so on, and
something never got due diligence.
So, it is important that we do our due diligence.
Mr.
Speaker, as has been said, this is really dealing with the C-NLOPB and the
C-NLOPB, there are different jurisdictions involved in that that being the
federal government, the Province of Nova Scotia, and the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador. As
the minister has explained, the federal government apparently has already
passed these amendments to the legislation, and the Province of Nova Scotia
has already passed these amendments to the legislation, and now, of course,
it comes to this House of Assembly, which is basically mirror legislation of
what they have already passed, and it would be up to us now to debate this
particular bill and make sure we all understand what is being proposed here.
We
should never take it for granted just because the federal government and
Nova Scotia happen to agree with everything here that that means everything
is hunky dory. We certainly do
not believe in rubber-stamping things around here any more, for sure so
it is important that we talk about these things.
Mr.
Speaker, for us as a Province this is very important and when you look at
all the activity that has occurred
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, as we look at all of the activity that has occurred in our offshore
over the last number of years and of course we can remember back many
years ago when we first heard of Hibernia.
At the time, a lot of us where certainly pleased and surprised by
that announcement and we waited for a long time for it to come to fruition,
but finally since it came to fruition and we had Hibernia developed, since
that time we have had other discoveries.
We have had other projects that have been ongoing in our offshore and
we have had other wells that have been discovered.
We have a number of areas in the Province certainly where exploration
is currently taking place.
We
know there has been a lot of seismic data that has been collected and we
certainly believe that there are many opportunities for us in our offshore
when it comes to the development of offshore oil and hopefully, at some
point in time, gas as well.
Because we have a lot of natural gas out there and we have not reached the
point in our history because we are still really in the infancy of our
offshore development. We have
not reached the point yet where we have been told it is feasible to start
moving into production and so on with natural gas, but that day will come as
well.
We
are seeing it all throughout the Province, and I actually attended a
luncheon a couple of months ago now and it was held by the Mount
Pearl-Paradise Chamber of Commerce and Mr. Bob Cadigan was the guest
speaker. He was there
representing the C-NLOPB or sorry, NOIA, and he was outlining to everybody
at that luncheon during this speech all of the current activity, the
activities that are going on off our coast currently, of the discoveries,
looking at some of the timelines when some of these other discoveries will
actually see production, and of course that news is very exciting.
It is not obviously going to happen this year.
It is too bad it never happened this year because we could certainly
use the money as
MR. SPEAKER:
I remind the hon. member
to speak to the bill, please.
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, the point I am making is that there is lots of activity taking place
in our offshore and there is a lot of activity, according to Mr. Cadigan,
that we will be seeing in our offshore as it relates to exploration, and to
which this legislation will certainly apply.
Mr.
Speaker, those are just the things that are on the horizon now.
That is not to mention all of the things beyond that and the
expectations beyond that, that they feel there is going to be a lot more to
come. With that said, it is very
important that as we develop our natural resources and as we bring these
companies in to develop our natural resources and in this case whether it
be offshore oil or gas and so on, it is important that we have the proper
legislation in place to govern that activity, if you will.
That
relates to occupational health and safety, as well as the environment.
Really, the environmental piece is primarily what we are dealing with
here today in terms of the amendment, but certainly I can recall debating in
this House, I do not know if it was last year or the year before, or what
have you, a piece of similar legislation which was amendments to the
legislation as it relates to the activity in our offshore and the C-NLOPB
around safety and enhancing safety of employees.
This
kind of ties in with the safety, because we are talking safety and
environment I come from a background, prior to getting involved in
politics, where what I worked at was occupational health and safety, and
tied very closely to that was environment.
Actually, in some programs you will actually see health, safety and
environment sort of tied together as one entity and others that they sort of
separate them; but they are very similar from the perspective of it is all
about ensuring that, first of all, there is legislation in place.
From that legislation we are going to develop regulations.
From that we are going to develop policies and procedures.
It could be policies or procedures relating to employees safety, or,
in the case of these amendments, we would be developing policies, procedures
and so on as it relates to environmental protection in the offshore.
With
those policies and procedures, it is obviously going to be critical and
even with these amendments it is going to be critical that all of this
information is shared with the companies, shared with the contractors that
are being contracted out by these companies, shared with the supervisors,
and shared with the employees.
It is going to be important that training programs are put into place, or
existing training programs are going to have to be updated to include these
provisions.
Policies and procedures are going to have to be updated and shared with
everybody. Of course, Mr.
Speaker, the other piece is going to be the enforcement piece.
I found, certainly in my career in the field of health and safety,
which again is very similar and in many cases tied to the environment, some
aspects of it at least, that you can have all the procedures you want, you
can do all the training you want and awareness you want and so on, there is
also the need to ensure that the regulations, the policies, procedures, and
so on are enforced.
They
have to be enforced internally by the companies' supervisors to make sure
that the employees are in compliance with all of the regulations, including
the regulations that will flow from this piece of legislation, these
amendments. It is important that
that enforcement take place, but it is also important from a regulatory
perspective as well, which is tied in and directly referenced in here, that
it has to be enforced by the governing agency, the authority, which in case
is the C-NLOPB.
I
would certainly hope that these amendments and so on that we are seeing here
that there will be a plan in place by the C-NLOPB to ensure that this is all
properly communicated to the operators, to ensure that the operators
communicate this to their contractors, to ensure that there are appropriate
resources with the C-NLOPB in the form of inspectors or whatever they may be
called I am going to call them inspectors.
They may have a slightly different name, but to have enough
inspectors out in the field to review the policies and procedures of the
companies to ensure that their policies and procedures are updated based on
this to ensure that supervisors are enforcing the rules, to ensure that
employees are following the rules.
That is going to be critical.
We
certainly all trust that is going to happen.
It is important that it happen, Mr. Speaker, because what we are
talking about here is protecting our environment.
We own these resources.
We are very fortunate in this Province to have a number of renewable
resources such as the fishery and such as forestry and agriculture and so on
MR. SPEAKER:
I am going to remind the
hon. member to speak to the amendments of the bill, please.
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We
are also very fortunate to have our offshore oil, our non-renewable
resources; offshore oil that belongs to us.
We are very fortunate to have it, but if we are going to have
companies coming in to develop these resources and to derive all the
benefits and there are a lot of benefits; we know there are a lot of
benefits through the oil companies.
When they come in and they develop these resources, there is a large
profit margin at the end of the day there for them and there is nothing
wrong with that. Profit is not a
dirty word. It is important that
we partner with these organizations, these corporations, to make this happen
because without them, it could not happen.
At
the end of the day, it is our resource.
We own it, and yes, we will get a return from that resource whether
it be through royalties, whether it be through employment opportunities,
whether it be through spinoff and so on; but when they are actually doing
the work, providing those benefits to themselves, providing those benefits
to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, it is important that we ensure
that as that is being done that they are doing it safely, that they are
protecting our workers who are out there on the rigs and on the supply
boats, but also important that they are protecting our environment.
It
is critical that while they are doing this that they are protecting our
environment. Because if they do not
protect our environment, there is going to be all kinds of ramifications for
us, whether it be to our tourist industry
MR. SPEAKER:
I ask the hon. member for
third time and the final time to speak to the amendments of the bill.
The amendments for the bill are very
specific, I remind the hon. member, and I ask the hon. member for his
co-operation.
Thank you.
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
certainly intend to do that. I
was just trying to give some context and some background to why this is so
important to us, and the impact it will have on us if it is not done
properly. That is the point I am
trying to make, Mr. Speaker.
One
of the things here, of course, the principles that we see here, that we
heard the minister speak to, is the principle of polluter pays.
We have the polluter-pay principle, which basically means, of course
MR. WISEMAN:
(Inaudible).
MR. LANE:
Mr. Speaker, if the
Minister of Finance would like to speak to this bill, he is certainly
welcome to when I sit down. I
look forward to his words of wisdom and wit, as normal.
When
we talk about polluter pays here and the amendment to the act that relates
to that, really what we are talking about here is that if a company is out
in our offshore developing our resources and as a result of the activities
that are taking place, that they are doing, that there is a spill, then this
amendment is basically sort of chiseling in stone because I would
have thought that it was always their responsibility anyway.
It should have been.
Perhaps I think that they are saying it is just sort of cementing that,
putting it quite clear, the concept that, look, you are responsible.
Now, whether or not the spill results as a result of
negligence, whether or not the spill is a result of poor policies and
procedures, whether the spill is a result of poor training, failure to
train, lack of supervision, and so on so, things that you could say the
company, it would be their fault because they did not do these things that
they ought to have do, or even if it was a result of other things.
It could be ice conditions; the member here talks about we have
icebergs and so on out in our offshore that could cause an accident, cause a
spill, whatever.
At the end of the day, the company that is out there is
going to be responsible for that liability, for that cleanup.
I am very glad to see that, and it is too bad we have not seen that
more onshore when we talk about things like Come By Chance, Abitibi.
Anyway, I will move on.
What we have done here is we are increasing the no-fault liability
cap and proof of financial capacity to $1 billion, up from $30 million.
It is going from $30 million up to $1 billion.
Now, that is a good thing.
AN HON. MEMBER:
Big jump.
MR. LANE:
That is a big jump. That is the
no liability cap. So, regardless
of if you can prove that and what we are talking about here, as I
understand it, regardless if we can prove whether the company acted in
negligence or not, they are going to be liable up to $1 billion.
Before, that was only $30 million.
We can sort of assume that if we have a rig and he is out 'drigging'
out 'drigging'; I am confusing drilling now with jigging and I am saying
'drigging.'
Anyway, if they are out drilling in our offshore and as a result of that
activity there is an oil spill, I think we can all kind of assume that it
occurred as a result of that activity.
What we are saying is that for up to a billion dollars of liability
we do not have to prove that they did it; they are going to assume that they
did it. Now, if we prove that
they did it, then there is unlimited liability.
So
there are two pieces of liability here, if you will.
There is the no-fault liability up to a billion now, and then there
is the unlimited liability, which would kick in if we could prove, without a
shadow of a doubt and I am assuming there would be a legal process and
appeals and maybe court processes and all that kind of stuff if we ever got
to that point. If there was a
spill there and let's say for argument sake in the past the spill was $50
million, so in the past it was $50 million then we could only recover $30
million. Then we would have to
take them to court, or through some kind of appeal process, or whatever the
case might be, to prove without a shadow of a doubt that they are
responsible for the other $20 million.
Now
under this change, that $30 million goes to $1 billion.
So, hopefully, we would not have a spill that would go beyond well,
hopefully we will not have a spill at all, first of all.
Hopefully, we will not have a spill at all because hopefully they are
going to follow these recommendations, they are going to follow this
legislation, they are going to do everything properly and then we will not
be in that case; but if we were in that case, up to a billion dollars
without proving fault, they are on the hook.
Then if it is over a billion dollars to clean up the mess, then we
are going to have to prove that they did it without a shadow of a doubt, and
I guess like I said there will be some sort of court process to do that.
That is then where the other liability would kick in, the unlimited,
but we would have to prove it.
Of
course when we are talking liability, as the minister referenced and it is
here in the notes somewhere; I will get to it eventually it is not just
the liability associated to cleaning up the spill, if there was a spill, we
are also talking about other costs associated to it.
In
addition to actually cleaning up the spill, there could be other costs
incurred; for example, the loss of the product.
So, in other words, if they spilled X amount of oil that could not be
recovered, well that is oil that could have been sold, that we could have
collected royalties on.
Therefore we are out the royalty share of the oil that could have been sold,
so we could recover that money as well.
There are also things like chemicals for cleanup and so on; that all comes
into the cleanup costs. From
that perspective, Mr. Speaker, we are certainly in support of that.
I am no expert in this field; I cannot say for certain that $1
billion is a good number. I am
assuming that the people at the C-NLOPB, the experts that would have been
used, the people in the federal government and so on, our own people, our
own professionals that work in the Department of Natural Resources that
would have been involved, I would assume they have the expertise to be able
to look at this and say yes, a billion dollars liability is a good number.
That it is reasonable.
I do
not know. Maybe a normal spill
might cost $2 billion for all I know.
I doubt it because I do not think they would do it, but I am just
going to take it for granted that the $1 billion is a good number.
I certainly know it is much better than $30 million.
It is a lot better than $30 million, so if nothing else, it is a huge
improvement for sure. That is
the first point that I just want to clarify and speak to.
In
addition to that, we are going to be increasing the direct access deposit
required for drilling or production from $30 million to $100 million.
Again, that is the deposit that the companies are paying, the
corporation is paying when they go out to drill.
They have to pay a deposit.
That was $30 million and now it is $100 million.
That is more three times we have more than tripled that amount.
Again, I do not know as a layperson here in the House of Assembly, I am
not an expert in that field.
Neither is anybody else that I am aware of in this House of Assembly when it
comes to this, but certainly as a layperson looking at that I do not know if
$100 million is a good number. I
know it is three times better than $30 million so again, I am going to
assume, take it for granted, that the due diligence was done and that the
people in our Natural Resources, our experts, the federal government and so
on, that they are satisfied that this is a good number.
So if they are telling me it is a good number, I am going to assume
that it is a good number. Like I
said, from a layperson's point of view, I know it is three times better than
the number that was there.
Again, I view that as a positive.
That
is for a single operator and, of course, and then if you have multiple
operators that are involved in a project and so on they can put in a deposit
of $250 million as a pooled fund.
I am not sure it says $250 million; it does not say what it was.
I know for a single operator it went from $30 million to $100
million; for pooled, multiple operators it is $250 million.
I do not know if there was ever anything in place for pooled before
and this is like totally new, or if it was at a certain level and it went
up. It is saying $250 million,
but I am going to take them on their numbers with the experts that were used
that again these are good numbers.
Like
I already said the unlimited and these numbers whether it be the $30
million to $1 billion, whether it be the $30 million deposit to the $100
million deposit, whether it be the $250 million pooled fund that would be
paid as a deposit for multiple operators, all of these things apply to the
no-fault liability cap.
All
this money can be used to recover all the costs associated with a spill
without needing to prove that the company in question was at fault.
Even though, let's face it, if there is a rig out there and they are
drilling and all of a sudden there is a big spill of oil next to it, chances
are we know where it came from.
Certainly, I think we could prove it pretty easily.
If they wanted to challenge it, there is an unlimited liability and a
process beyond that $1 billion, beyond that $100 million deposit, beyond
that $250 million pooled deposits.
I think I am pretty clear on that and I have no issue with it.
Of
course some additional changes, we have been told, is allowing governments
to seek environmental damages as part of a claim under the liability regime.
My understanding there, Mr. Speaker, again these are additional
damages so it is not just recovering the cost to clean up a spill and making
operators responsible for cleaning up the spill and all the cost including
lost revenue and so on, but it also allows the Province to claim for
environmental damages. Because
we know if we had a spill, if that occurred, we know the environmental
damage that could cause whether it be to the ocean itself, whether it be to
seabirds, whether it be to fish and we know how important the fishery is
to us and our cod stocks and our shellfish
MR. SPEAKER:
I remind the hon. member
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
appreciate that, but, again, I am just demonstrating what the liabilities
would be that would be covered.
MR. WISEMAN:
(Inaudible).
MR. LANE:
Mr. Speaker, this is the
second time I have to say to the Minister of Finance that I am really
anxious to hear what he has to say about this legislation.
I invite him to stand up, after I sit down, and talk about the
legislation.
Mr.
Speaker, we have a number of environmental damages
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER:
Order, please!
The
hon. the Member for Mount Pearl South.
MR. LANE:
Mr. Speaker, as I said,
this is allowing government, we are told, to seek environmental damages as
part of the claim under that liability regime.
So if there is damage to our environment, whatever part of that
environment it may be, parts that are very important to us, as a Province,
we can claim those damages. That
is a good thing.
Mr.
Speaker, it re-establishes the C-NLOPB as a responsible authority for
environmental assessments. So
the C-NLOPB it just sort of cements that they are responsible for the
environmental assessments because, obviously, there are going to be
environmental assessment processes used when we are doing these types of
activities. It would only make
sense that that would be the case.
The
next point and the minister, I believe, did speak to this to some degree
was allowing spill-treating agents in circumstances where their use will
result in a net environmental benefit.
So obviously, if we were in the situation that we had a spill in our
offshore, then I would assume there are I would not assume; I know there
are established protocols, procedures, methods to contain that spill to
clean up that spill and so on.
One
of the methods, as we are lead to understand here, that can be utilized is
the use of chemicals chemical agents to contain spills.
As I understand, from what the minister was saying, is that prior to
the changes being made here, you were not allowed to use these chemicals.
Now,
I would assume the reason why you were not allowed to use these chemicals is
that these chemicals would be considered harmful to the environment.
I am not sure to what degree these chemicals would be harmful, or
exactly what the chemicals are, but obviously they would have been or will
be harmful to the environment.
Therefore, before this amendment, you were not permitted to use these
chemicals. However, somebody now
in their wisdom and I am assuming because like lots of legislation that
you see written or lots of amendments, I would say all the amendments that
you see made to legislation, is based on the fact that there was a piece of
legislation in place, it covered a particular activity, or process, or
procedure, or whatever. An
incident of some kind happened and there was no legislation to deal with it,
or the legislation that was in place did not effectively deal with it
because nobody really thought of that scenario.
Of
course when you are writing legislation and you are writing regulations, you
are kind of thinking, okay, what is it we want to accomplish and then you
talk about the what-ifs. What if
this happens? What if that
happens? What if something else
happens? What procedure what
do we need to have in this legislation to deal with that particular
circumstance?
So I
am assuming that we probably had a circumstance whereby there was a spill,
or maybe someone just had an aha moment, a what-if scenario, and they said
if we had a spill here of a certain size or what have you, and we employed
the spill control, or spill containment, or spill clean-up procedures as we
are permitted to do under the current legislation if we were to employ
those in this circumstance, then the amount of damage and the cost and
everything to do that, and the amount of environmental damage would be so
great that, do you know what, if we could do it this way with these chemical
agents, although they would have an adverse impact, no doubt, on the
environment, not ideal to do, but it is kind of like the best of a bad
situation.
I
think that is where the minister was coming from.
This is the best of a bad situation.
We have a spill. It is a
serious situation. This is what
we have at our disposal. We do
not have this at our disposal.
Even though we do not want to use this, it is better to use this because
there will be a net benefit. In
using this it is going to contain it much faster, clean it up faster, and
contain it, whatever the case might be.
There will actually be less environmental damage than if we had to do
it the way we are permitted to do it.
Therefore, it does not make sense that we cannot do it this way.
So now they are changing the legislation to allow these chemical
agents to be used in those situations.
I support that in principle.
The
concern I had, first of all, when I read that, when I saw that, one thing
that came to mind is: My goodness, I hope somebody would not use that as a
loophole. I hope somebody would
not say: Well, do you know what?
If we use the method we are required to use here, it is going to cost us a
half a billion dollars. If we
could throw a few chemicals on it, we could do it for half that cost.
So, therefore, the heck with doing it this way.
We will do it this way because it will be faster, it will be cheaper,
or whatever. It is not good
enough.
That
is why I was very glad when I heard the minister say that in order for
somebody to use these chemical agents you have to I think he said apply to
the C-NLOPB or to the agency within government, and I am assuming the
C-NLOPB itself, to say: In this situation we are requesting to be able to
use these chemicals because the environmental damage done, using these
chemicals, will be much less than if we did not use them.
They would have to prove that case.
The regulator would have to hear what they are saying there and make
a decision. I am glad that
decision is outside the hands of the company and inside the hands of the
regulator to make those decisions.
The
concern I had, initially, about the use of these chemicals, and while I
certainly do not support using chemicals, if at all possible, in principle I
do not, if at all possible, but where it makes sense; and now that he
minister has told us that they have to go through a process where the
regulator would have to approve it, they would have to demonstrate the
requirement to use them, demonstrate the fact that this is going to actually
be less of an environmental impact than if we did not use them, then I am
okay with that. I think that is
a good move. I support it 100
per cent.
I
think you are seeing a theme here, Mr. Speaker.
I am going to continue on with a few more points but, as I said
earlier, I think this is a good piece of legislation.
It makes sense. What is
important, as members here in the Opposition, is that we make our points,
ask our questions, and so on, so that we are all on record that we know what
we are doing here.
Mr.
Speaker, the next point here was the monetary penalties for non-compliance.
The penalties, we are told, is $25,000 for an individual and $100,000
for a corporation. This approach
is very similar to what you would see with health and safety legislation.
I would say they probably modelled it after that same kind of
concept. The C-NLOPB, of course,
is responsible for health and safety in the offshore and they have that
legislation and, like I said, they kind of tie together in a lot of cases.
I am assuming they kind of took that model that is being used in
health and safety legislation and have applied it here, and it makes sense.
There does need to be a penalty.
As I said, we can have all the policies and procedures we want based on the
current legislation, based on this amended piece of legislation have all
the policies and procedures incorporating all these things.
We could do all the training we want with the companies, the
contractors, with the employees, supervisors and so on, but I know from my
experience as a safety practitioner that enforcement is still required.
To
be honest with you, Mr. Speaker, as a safety practitioner, I was never one
who always wanted to go out with the big stick.
I always tried to work with the companies, the contractors, and the
employees, supervisors and so on to explain why we have this legislation,
the purpose of it, and why they need to be in compliance.
I think the same thing would apply here.
I would hope that the people who would be enforcing this legislation
with the C-NLOPB will be taking that approach to work with the companies to
ensure compliance.
It
is important to have that big stick if you need it.
As we have said here, the corporation, $100,000 for a penalty now
there are people who are going to argue, and this would be one.
I will make this point we talk about $100,000.
If a company, such as these, are engaging in very risky activity and
they decide that they are going to bypass all these environmental rules and
so on, there are some people who would say $100,000 to an oil company is
chump change; that $100,000, they could say that is just a cost of doing
business.
I do
not know, but I just raise the point.
Maybe the minister now when he gets up again or when he gets up in
Committee perhaps he may want to address it and so on.
I just wonder about the $100,000 and again not being an expert I am
again there are people who put this together that I am sure are very
competent people and all that good stuff, I am not suggesting otherwise; but
$100,000, to me, in the oil industry I think a lot of people would view as
just being insignificant, the cost to do business and so on.
AN HON. MEMBER:
(Inaudible).
MR. LANE:
Yes, very minor.
I
would like to know more when the minister gets up in Committee and so on,
I could ask the question or he could make a note and he can address it in
Committee, but I am just wondering about the $100,000 for the company.
Now
$25,000 for an individual, to me that seems like a pretty stiff penalty.
I know people in the offshore make good wages but, boy, even if you
are making $100,000 a year or whatever, a $25,000 penalty is nothing to
sneeze at. I would think that
$25,000 would be a good deterrent.
I would think that would be a good deterrent for anybody in the
offshore wherever they are working, I would think that would be a good
deterrent.
That
sounds like a reasonable amount.
Mr. Speaker, I am not sure when we talk about the $25,000 because it says
$25,000 and $100,000 I thought in the briefing and so on that I heard that
they had talked about supervisors.
I know in safety legislation, I thought it might have been the same
the company has a responsibility, the supervisor has a responsibility, and
the employee has a responsibility.
I think it is that same approach would apply here.
So
normally when we talk about violations that would result in fines an
inspector, let's say, shows up and there is an activity taking place that is
presenting a risk to the environment. The normal practice, if you were to
apply the same type model that is used in health and safety and I would
say it would apply the first thing you would look at and say, okay, well
what was the company responsible for here.
Generally speaking, the company would responsible for having policies
and procedures.
The
company would be responsible for communicating those policies and procedures
to its management, to its supervisors, to its employees, to its contractors.
The company would be responsible for training as well.
The company would be responsible for having all the appropriate
equipment for people to do the job properly, the way it is supposed to be
done. Those are the types of
things that the company would be responsible for.
Of
course, the supervisors are just that, they are supervisors.
They are responsible for ensuring that the employees who work under
their supervision know what they are doing, that they are equipped properly,
and that they are following policy and procedure.
Of course, the employees are responsible for following those policies
and procedures and doing everything they were taught in the training and
using the equipment provided and so on.
So all three of those parties, all three of those groups, the
company, the managers-supervisors, and the employees, all three had a
responsibility.
If
an environmental inspector, I would assume, went out to the rig I guess
this applies to the supply boats and everything else, everyone who is
involved in that activity. If he
or she went out and an activity was taking place that was not in compliance
with this legislation, with the regulations, and so on, they would be
looking to why. Why are they not
in compliance? They would be
looking to all the things I just listed.
Then
they would say: This was the company's responsibility.
Did they fulfill all of these responsibilities?
If the answer is no, then the company could be fined, in this case,
$25,000. Then they would look
and say: Where was the supervisor?
Where was he or she too?
Were they supervising? Were they
making sure? If the answer was
no, the supervisor is on the hook.
Of course, if the employee is not following policies and procedures
and so on, then the employee can also be on the hook.
Usually, what occurs then, once they are all on the hook or some are
on the hook, then they have to demonstrate their due diligence that they did
everything they were supposed to do.
They have to demonstrate that.
I am
assuming that same kind of concept would apply here.
If that is the case, I am assuming that there is $25,000 to the
employee, $25,000, possibly, to the supervisor, and $100,000 to the company.
While I think the $25,000 for individuals is certainly a reasonable
deterrent, again I question $100,000 to an oil company; would that just be
considered the cost of doing business?
I
also wonder if there is an activity taking place and they are fined, but
then they continue to do it the next day and the next day.
Is it going to be $100,000 today and another $100,000 tomorrow and
keep on going, bing, bing, bing; or is it just like a one-shot deal and then
they just continue on? I would
assume that would not be the case.
I would assume that if you do it day and after day, or once you are
told about it and you are fined, if you continue to do it you are going to
be fined again and you continue and you will be fined again, and so on and
so forth, to stop that activity.
I am guessing, hoping, that is the case.
I will leave that to the minister just to respond to when he gets up
and he speaks.
Another point here that the minister made was that the operators, under the
legislation here now, are responsible and liable for their contractor.
Mr. Speaker, that is another good amendment because one of the things
that you hear I am going to go back to my background in the safety
industry, but it certainly applies here.
You cannot contract away your responsibilities.
We always said in the safety industry, you cannot contract away your
responsibilities. In other
words, you cannot say I am not going to put my employee in this dangerous
situation to get this job done because I will be responsible.
So what I will do is I will just hire a contractor and let him to do.
If anything happens, I am off the hook.
No, you hired the contractor; you are on the hook.
I am
assuming that the same principle is applying here.
In other words, a contractor cannot say well, we have this work that
we need to get done. We want to
get it done really fast. If we
do it the right way, based on the legislation, all the environmental
legislation, it is going to take us a week to do this.
We do not have time. Time
is money. We want to fast-track
it and we want to avoid doing these things.
So what we will do is we will hire a contractor and we will let him
fast-track it, we will let him do whatever, and then if he gets caught or
something goes wrong, blame it on the contractor.
Those types of things can happen, Mr. Speaker.
We need to ensure that we have legislation in place to avoid those
types of activities from occurring.
The minister is saying that we indeed have this amendment included.
In the set of amendments, there is a provision here to make the
companies responsible for the contractors that they hire.
I
would assume when we talk about making them responsible that the company is
going to have to demonstrate due diligence that the contractor they hired
was informed of what the rules are, what the legislation is, that company
would be responsible for ensuring the contractor's employees are trained,
they have all their certifications, and they are qualified to do whatever
the work is. The company would
be responsible for ensuring the contractor has all the proper tools and
equipment and so on to do the job the right way, based on the legislation.
I guess they are going to have to sign off on it.
There is going to have to be written documentation that says we hired this
contractor and this contractor certified to us that his employees are
trained. He would have to sign
off that they understand the policies and procedures that they agreed to be
in compliance and all of that stuff.
Again, the same as they would do in the safety industry.
I am assuming that same type of due diligence is going to be required
now by the offshore companies, as it should, because this is our environment
we are talking about. If
something goes wrong, we are the ones who are going to be impacted here in
this Province. It is critical
that we have things like this in this legislation to protect us and to
prevent any types of catastrophes from happening.
Mr.
Speaker, we have seen things that have occurred.
I think the minister may have referenced the Deepwater Horizon in the
Gulf of Mexico and the Louisiana Coast, we know what happened there.
I do not know if he referenced it, but I will reference the Exxon
Valdez in Alaska. We know the
types of things that can happen, so it is critical that we have good
legislation in place to deal with these things.
Now,
Mr. Speaker, the next point and I know I am starting to wind-down on my
time, although I see I still have ten minutes left.
Public release of information was the other point that was pointed
out to us here. We are told that
Bill 2 allows the board to make documents filed by project proponents
available to the public. Wow,
what a novel idea. Making
documents available to the public, that is a good thing.
This would include emergency plans, safety plans, environments
effects, and monitoring reports.
Mr.
Speaker, I cannot argue with it.
That is good stuff. I mean, the
fact now that we are going to I cannot believe we had to make an
amendment, to be honest with you.
I am really surprised. I
understand that there is proprietary information that has to be protected
when it comes to the offshore.
These are huge projects and millions and millions of dollars and so on.
We know there is information that obviously has to be protected.
I
was really surprised to learn that this was sort of a last minute amendment
that got made to be able to release this type of information.
Especially safety plans, my goodness.
We look at the oil industry; we are out in the middle of the North
Atlantic, one of the most dangerous places in the world to be.
We are dealing with the work that is taking place.
It is very dangerous work.
I
will give credit where credit is due.
The oil industry full marks on safety.
I do not know if I will say full marks, very strong on safety, very
high standards, but we have had incidents.
So I cannot say full marks because full marks would mean everything
is perfect, and we know everything is not perfect.
We have heard from people in the offshore who have had concerns and
we know everything is not perfect.
We
know we have had tragedies.
Unfortunately, we have had tragedies in our offshore.
It is very important that we are diligent.
Not just that companies are diligent, not just that the C-NLOPB is
diligent, the federal government, the provincial government, the Government
of Nova Scotia, but it is also important that when it comes to things like
safety, which is outlined here in this amendment, the public should have the
right to know and to have assurance that when our loved ones are going out
to work at sea, they are protected.
That there are safety plans in place, that those safety plans have
been communicated to all the employees, that those safety plans are updated
on a regular basis, that those safety plans are audited, that inspections
are taking place, and that workers are trained.
We
need to know that the government is doing its job in enforcing safety
regulations, making sure that they are not just showing up every now and
then, making sure that they are out there on a regular basis.
They are doing surprise inspections so they could show up on any rig.
They could show up on any supply boat at any time.
It is critical to know that those things are taking place.
We as a public have the right to know and to be assured that is
taking place.
So
again I say to the minister that is another good amendment.
If you had to go you are saying that you went and spoke to whoever
to get this last-minute amendment.
I do not know if that is right or not because you said it has been
passed by the feds and it has been passed by Nova Scotia.
It is already passed there, so I am not sure when you had that aha
moment and went and spoke to those groups and made these changes.
If you did, then good for you, good on you.
I am very pleased to see it.
This
is not just about safety, of course, it is emergency plans.
It says here emergency plans.
We know emergencies can happen offshore.
We know it all too well.
It is critical that we have emergency plans if anything should go wrong and
people are put at risk.
It
is important that we as a public have assurances that it is actually
happening, that there are emergency plans, that people are trained in what
to do if there is an emergency, that we have the proper emergency equipment
if something should go wrong, that we have all the proper protocols, that
all of the resources are available to us should there be an emergency,
resources that the oil companies would be responsible for, resources that
the Province would be responsible for, resources that the federal government
would be responsible for. It is
important that we have assurances and we can get that information, if we
want to, to make sure all this is happening.
That is a good thing, I say, Mr. Speaker that is a good thing.
Of
course, the other part they talk about, in terms of information that would
be available, is environmental information and environmental monitoring.
Who could argue with that?
I am really shocked, to be honest with you, that this was like a
last-minute thing that somebody had to go to somebody and say we should
release this stuff. I would have
thought it would have been there anyway, but good on the minister.
Minister, if you had anything to do with making this amendment,
making this happen if you had anything to do with it, Mr. Minister, I
applaud you for it, Sir.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. LANE:
Because it is important.
We only have one environment.
While we have these natural resources out there, offshore oil and
gas, we have these activities while we have all these activities taking
place, which is to our benefit, we also know that if something goes wrong
there is an environmental price to pay.
There could be lives that could be lost.
We
need to have those assurances that everything that should be happening as it
relates to the protection of our environment through policies, procedures,
training, and supervision we need to ensure that everything that is
required to protect the safety of our workers through policies, procedures,
training, and equipment and all that, we need to know that all these things
are in place. The public has a
right to know these things. It
is critical that we know these things.
I am
glad and very supportive of the fact that we have this amendment that the
minister tells us he sort of championed we have this amendment in this
piece of legislation, Mr. Speaker.
I think that is great.
Mr.
Speaker, I guess just to summarize, so that we are totally clear and that
there are no doubts I do not want to leave any doubts on where I stand.
I do not want to leave any doubts as it relates to
AN HON. MEMBER:
(Inaudible).
MR. LANE:
Yes, I do not want to
leave any doubts of where I am standing
and here I am going all over the place, I know.
I wander around; I get that.
So
there are no doubts, the points that are being emphasized here: the
liability piece going from $30 million of no-fault liability up to a billion
dollars; the drilling permits going from $30 million to $100 million; $250
million for the pooled licences; the unlimited liability, if the operator is
at fault; the concept of polluter pays; the requirement for companies,
obviously, to be in compliance with all these regulations and for the
C-NLOPB to be responsible for the environmental assessments; the provision
that the Province can also go after the companies for environmental damages
and so on, if there are any; the concept of the spill-treating agents, only
where absolutely necessary, only where approved by the regulator; the
concept around the penalties for corporations that are not in compliance
with the regulations; the concept for the penalties to supervisors,
individuals; the concept of holding the companies responsible, the
operators, for any contractors that they have; and the last point was the
concept of releasing vital, critical information to the public as it relates
to the environment, as it relates to health and safety, as it relates to
emergency preparedness, as it relates to emergency
MR. SPEAKER:
I remind the hon. member,
he is wandering once again.
MR. LANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
guess to finally conclude, as I have said, I have already summarized but
just to conclude this is a good piece of legislation.
I support it 100 per cent.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The member is out of
time.
The
hon. the Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I am
glad to have the opportunity finally to speak to Bill 2, which is An Act
to Amend The Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation
Newfoundland and Labrador Act.
It has been sitting around for a while as we have been doing the Budget
debate. It is good to finally
get it here on the floor where we can talk about it.
As
has been pointed out by the minister and by the Member for Mount Pearl
South, it stems from the Deepwater Horizon disaster that took place five
years ago in the Gulf of Mexico.
Of course, none of us will forget that terrible disaster.
There were eleven workers who died and a major environmental
disaster, one which I think has taught us a huge lesson.
Five years later, we are still seeing the terrible environmental
impact that this disaster caused.
They are still finding, not only in the Gulf of Mexico, but further
away, signs of damage to the life in the water, to life on the shores.
It shows us how major a spill like this can be.
Of
course, with us dealing with exploration in our offshore and exploration
that is moving further and further away from our shores it behooves us, both
as a Province and as a country, to take extremely seriously what this
exploration means. I really
believe we have not taken it seriously enough yet.
This piece of legislation is very good and it is dealing with a lot
of important issues, but the bottom line is that even though this
legislation is dealing with what happens when environment takes places and
specifically who is responsible to pay for cleanup, I do not think we have
yet realized the responsibility that is in our hands for doing this
exploration in deepwater. I do
not think we realize that it is not enough to say that cleanup is going to
be done and we are going to make sure people responsible do it.
The problem is that even doing immediate cleanup does not take care
of the ripple effect, and the huge ripple effect that happens.
As I
have already said, five years and a month after that disaster in the Gulf of
Mexico, we are still seeing the impact to dead animals, animals that are
sick, fauna and flora are showing the signs, so the immediate cleanup does
not take care of immediate damage that happens and that goes on.
One
of the things in this bill, as has been said, that is extremely important is
that the principle of the polluter pays is named very clearly, and that is
extremely important. It is a
principle that has been around for a long time, but something that really
was not taken as seriously as it should have been until this disaster I am
talking about on a global level happened.
Both companies and governments sort of had to sit up and say we have
a responsibility here.
The
principle is important from a number of perspectives and we have dealt with
it not too badly in this bill, but we did not go as far as others have gone.
Of course, nobody will be surprised if I say we have not gone as far
as Norway. We keep referring to
Norway as sort of the model. I
believe it is, and I think we should be looking to Norway.
They have been at it a much longer time than us and they are dealing
with the same type of ocean that we are dealing with.
The things that have happened in Norway are important for us to look
at.
When
it comes to holding the polluter responsible, with Norway there are no
limits whatsoever. With this
bill, even though it is an improvement on our current act and it really
is; the whole thing of having absolute liability up to $1 billion is
certainly an improvement over where we were.
There is no doubt about that.
At $1 billion to use simple language you have to prove who was
responsible before you can hold that responsible company.
If,
for example, company A, it is their rig that has seems to have caused the
spill, what looks like the responsible company is immediately responsible up
to a billion dollars. After a
billion dollars, you are then going to have to prove that there was
negligence. You are going to
have to prove that they caused it.
Then you are going to get into all kinds of legal wrangling after a
billion dollars. If you prove
that they have responsibility, then you will have unlimited responsibility
from then on. After a billion
dollars, you have to prove that they are responsible, that they were
negligent.
In
Norway, the absolute liability is absolute, period.
There is no cap. So from
the minute the spill happens, the company that is the company from which,
say, the rig from which the disaster happens, that company from then on is
absolutely liability for all the cleanup.
They have an unlimited absolute liability in Norway.
Here
in Canada we have run scared at that obviously.
This bill that we have and the act that we have is not an act and is
not something we hold by ourselves.
This one, our act, is the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador act, but
there is also a Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Canada act.
Then you have the act that is under Ottawa.
All three of those acts have the same language because it we are all
dealing with the same reality.
So
we are not standing alone here.
We cannot make the decision on our own.
Would we, on our own, have done an absolute liability?
I would like to think that we would have, but of course here there
are two other partners involved.
I think it shows us a bit of weakness as a country that we are not willing
to go with the absolute liability that Norway went with.
Having said that, I know that we are going to pass this bill; I think we
need to pass it. It has good
things in it. It definitely has
improved the situation. I think
that we need to go ahead and pass it, knowing that Ottawa has passed their
bill and I think Nova Scotia has passed their bill as well.
We
are going to need to pass this bill, but I want to talk about some of the
limitations of the bill because I think we are not going to give up.
I do not think that we should do this bill and say okay, now we have
done everything we can do with regard to the oil industry.
I do not think we will ever be able to say that, so I think it is
important to speak to some of the limitations.
In
Canada, in Ottawa, it was the federal Standing Committee on Natural
Resources that recommended the amendments that we are dealing with today.
We have them put in the language that relates to our Province, but,
basically, the amendments that we are approving in this bill were amendments
that were done in Ottawa and recommended by the federal Standing Committee.
It is a great way to do legislation, as I have pointed out before in
this House, to have standing committees that deal with substantive issues,
substantive legislation as this would be.
So
after the Standing Committee in Ottawa thoroughly studied the situation,
these were their recommendations.
We are sort of tied to the recommendations from Ottawa.
As I have already said, it is too bad that that Standing Committee
and the government in Ottawa was not brave enough and strong enough to say
that there should be absolute liability.
The
other thing that we could have learned from Norway, and other places as
well, but specifically from Norway, because as I say they are sort of a
model for us. If you want to
look at best practices when it comes to drilling, best practice when it
comes to everything around that, Norway is certainly one of the places that
is moving in a great direction with regard to best practices.
In
Norway, they do consultation on a regular basis, which I think is extremely
important. The consultation that
they do involves the companies, the government, and the industry.
They all work together.
They all have joint decision making.
This is a best practice, globally.
It is not just in Norway.
They have it that way in Australia as well.
So one has to ask: Why is it that we have a piece of legislation
coming forward where there was not, for example, consultation with unions,
where there was not consultation with environmental groups?
So that is very disturbing.
Now,
it is quite possible and I have not looked at the whole history of how the
Standing Committee did its work in Ottawa, but because the Standing
Committee in Ottawa is a parliamentary Standing Committee they are able to
hold public meeting. They are
able to bring in witnesses. So
it is quite possible that during the work of the Standing Committee in
Ottawa, they may have had unions and environmental groups appear before
them. I would be surprised if
they did not. So that is
positive. It would have been
good if we could have as well.
I
think what I am getting at here is not only the fact that in the case of
this bill that we have not done consultation, it is the fact that we should
be looking at a model for the future that does do consultation, that there
is no division between the government, environmental groups, unions, and the
companies in putting rules, regulations, and even legislation in place.
That
is why I am sorry that another missed opportunity with this bill and
again, I am well aware of the fact that we cannot do it on our own, that we
would have to have the co-operation of Ottawa.
We would have to have the involvement of more than Ottawa.
I am
disturbed that we still are not dealing concretely with the issue of the
recommendation from the Wells inquiry on the Cougar helicopter crash.
I think we have to look at the industry and the things that are
happening in the industry as a whole.
MR. SPEAKER (Cross):
Order, please!
MS MICHAEL:
Wells's recommendation
was that there should be a new independent offshore safety regulator.
MR. SPEAKER:
I remind the member to
speak to the offshore and the intent of this amendment.
MS MICHAEL:
Yes, I will certainly do
that, Mr. Speaker.
This
bill gives new powers to the C-NLOPB; there is no doubt about that.
The C-NLOPB is the regulator currently which deals with everything.
It deals with the leases for the land and everything around the
leases for the land. It deals
with seeking people to buy the land to get into new exploration and deals
with health and safety.
This
bill gives new powers to the C-NLOPB.
In the current act, the C-NLOPB is actually not allowed to release
information. This bill is saying
you are allowed to. I mean, it
is quite amazing when you think about it that they were not allowed to.
What is happening now in this bill, which is extremely important, is
that the C-NLOPB may make a decision to disclose information or
documentation. If they do, they
have to make every reasonable effort to give the person who provided it
written notice of the board's intention to disclose it.
Then
the person which means basically the corporation or it could be other
bodies to whom a corporation is required to be given information may waive
the requirement that that happen.
If that body does consent to disclosure, that body will have
considered to have waived the requirement.
Basically what that means is that they may say, well, it does not
matter that you did not give us notice.
The
bottom line is that the C-NLOPB does have now the freedom to make the
decision that they are going to release information when they want to
release information. I suspect
that they have a freedom but that freedom can also be tested, just like that
can be tested here in Newfoundland and Labrador about the release of
information. The difference
between the release of information under this bill and under the joint
regime that we have is that the ability to challenge and look for
information, if the board decided not to release something, would have to be
under the federal legislation with regard to access to information, not
under the provincial.
Still, the board may decide if the board does not, it can be challenged
under the national legislation, the federal legislation.
When the board does decide to release or is forced to do it because
it has been challenged, then they do have to give a notice to the third
party. Even with that if a
notice is given to a third party, the board shall, and I quote from the
bill, give the third party an opportunity
within 20 days after the day on
which the notice is given, make written representations to the board as to
why the information or documentation, or a portion of it, should not be
disclosed. After the person
has had the opportunity to make representations, but no later than 30 days
after the day on which the notice is given, make a decision as to whether or
not to disclose the information or documentation and give written notice of
the decision to the person.
The
board still makes the decision, and that is what is extremely important.
I think it is a step forward that we
have opened up that. Actually it
is terrible that the current act said no, you cannot release anything.
Why would we have the regulator if they cannot do that?
That kind of protection has been part of our culture.
I hope that we are slowly getting away from that.
Certainly our new ATIPPA is a sign that we are moving away from this
kind of protection.
I
have to make sure where I am now, Mr. Speaker.
One of my concerns then, and as I say, one of the weaknesses of the
bill is that Ottawa and us, and maybe Nova Scotia as well, does not see the
need to have a separate body regulated around the safety and environmental
issues: personal safety, occupational health and safety, and environmental
issues.
I
think we will definitely have a better act, and as we move forward I think
we will have to monitor this is not something that is in the act, but it
is obviously what we are going to have to do how well the C-NLOPB operates
once the new act is in place, how well they operate with regard to the
release of information, and how well they operate with regard to the new
powers that they have been given.
It
is really a shock to think they did not have them before.
We will need to look at are they releasing information?
I think we will need to test that.
If we know there is information that should be public, or we believe
should be public, then we can ask them: Why aren't you doing it?
Why aren't you releasing it?
If we find out that they seem to be holding back information and not
using the powers that are being given to them with the changes to the act,
then I think we once again have to open up the whole issue of should they be
both regulators, when it comes to licensing, et cetera, and the body that is
overlooking safety and environmental issues?
I
guess this is a moment for us, just as we are making a change to the act
now, which is really substantive and important, that we could be in two
years' time saying: Do you now what?
We have the proof that even though the C-NLOPB has been given these
powers, they are not exercising these powers.
If we find they are not exercising those powers, then we will have to
look at our regime and see what other changes we have to make.
So
even though I think there is a weakness in the act, in the bill even
though there is a weakness there I do not think it goes far enough both
with regard to absolute liability and not looking at the need for an
independent offshore safety regulator.
At the same time, we will be voting for this bill because it is
essential. What is in this act,
the changes that we have made are essential.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Member for
Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. MCGRATH:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am
pleased to be able to rise here today and speak to Bill 2, An Act To Amend
The Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation
Newfoundland And Labrador Act.
I
was very pleased when the minister asked me to speak on this bill because it
certainly coincides with the occupational health and safety bill that we
brought in December, 2014. I had
worked on that bill so I am very pleased to participate in the debate on
this.
I
thought that the minister, in his dialogue when he spoke to the bill,
articulated very well what the bill is all about.
I listened intently to the Member for Mount Pearl South.
I thought he made some very good points.
I am pleased to hear that he is supporting this.
Certainly with his former background in occupational health and
safety, he made some very valid points.
Also, the Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi, in her debate there made some
very good, strong debate. That
is what it is all about here in the House.
We can stand and support a bill, or not support a bill, but have some
healthy debate. That is what I
am hearing here today.
Mr.
Speaker, two paramount important things about this bill are safety and
environmental protection. Those
two principles remain the priority of any decisions or actions that our
government is going to take with concerns regarding the offshore industry.
I
think everybody knows how important the offshore industry is to Newfoundland
and Labrador. We have had about
twenty or twenty-five years of good productivity from the offshore industry.
Like any other industry, it is all about constant improvements.
That is what this bill is doing; it is improving the offshore safety.
As I
stated earlier, we brought forward a piece of legislation in December of
2014, or we enacted a piece of legislation that improved the health and
safety aspect of the offshore industry.
I worked on that particular piece of legislation so I am pleased to
stand today to this one. The
whole purpose of this bill that we are debating here today is about
improving the environmental aspects of the offshore industry.
In
2013, the regime, the result of an extensive collaboration between three
parties the Newfoundland and Labrador government, the Government of
Canada, and the Nova Scotian government, as well as the two Atlantic
offshore petroleum boards were all part of putting together the debate
there, or the legislation as well as they have been here.
I
heard the word consultation used a few times.
There certainly has been extensive consultation done in preparing
this bill with those different parties, the different levels of government,
as well as the two boards. I
will not argue the fact that there is always room for more consultation.
I think that is something we recognize, finding improvements to what
already exists and always having the door open that there can always be more
improvements. I think that is
part of nature that you move forward with what you have, but you are
constantly trying to improve upon the working conditions that we have.
The
regime I talked about that we put forward for the occupational health and
safety clarified the roles and responsibilities of the operators, the
governments, the employers, the employees, and the regulators for safety in
the offshore and developed an enforceable, modern occupational health and
safety regime. That is tailored
to unique circumstances in Newfoundland and Labrador.
As we all know, the circumstances that we deal with on the offshore
are certainly unique to the rigid waters that we get in the North Atlantic.
So we need to have regimes in place that are going to govern the
environment that we are dealing with.
I
also heard the Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi refer to Norway on
several of her comments there. I
agree with her that Norway certainly can be used as an exemplary role model
for what happens in the offshore industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.
I think that we do that because quite often in a lot of the dialogues
that I have been involved with on this side of the government, in talking
about things that are happening in the offshore, Norway is a common factor
that is often referred to.
Another thing that we are looking at in the health and safety one, what we
did, one of the important things we put in, was the workers right to
refusal, taking care of the worker, their right to know, and their right to
raise issues without reprisal.
So that was all part of the occupational health and safety one.
We used that particular bill when we were bringing this bill into
place, when we were working on this bill.
I
think as I go down through my notes, there are parts here that I really want
to focus on. One of the more
important parts that I wanted to talk about, in this legislation, I want to
highlight the polluter-pays principle.
I think it is really important.
That is a very important part of this bill.
Currently, the accord legislation does not explicitly establish the
polluter-pays principle. Right
now that piece is not in there.
With
this new bill, they are going to ensure that the principle is referenced
explicitly in legislation, and that it establishes clearly and formally that
polluters will be held accountable and financially responsible.
I think that is so important.
Not only will they be held accountable, they will be responsible for
that.
That
is really important. I think
this legislation will ensure that civil liability of any person who causes a
spill is deemed unlimited so that all the damages will be covered and
taxpayers and this again very important, that taxpayers will not be put on
the hook for the damages that will be caused out there.
Mr.
Speaker, I could go on and on. I
have a little bit of time left.
I think that with the speakers who have already spoken, they were very
explicit. I heard from the
Member for Mount Pearl South that it sounds like they are going to be
supporting this bill. Certainly
the Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi has said that her party will be
supporting the bill. I think
this is a very important piece of legislation, a strong piece of legislation
that is going to improve on the environmental liabilities in the offshore
industry. I am looking forward
to this bill passing.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
If the Minister of
Natural Resources speaks now, he will close debate.
The
hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
MR. DALLEY:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I
want to thank the members opposite, the Member for Mount Pearl South, the
Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi, and certainly the Member for Lab West
for their input on this very important piece of legislation today, Mr.
Speaker, that strengthens and protects our environment in the offshore.
It is very important as we proceed with the development of our
offshore and the tremendous opportunities that exist.
A
couple of points that were raised, Mr. Speaker, during discussion and it
will only take a minute particularly around the C-NLOPB and the resources
to be able to do the work. I can
assure the people of the Province that they have the human and financial
resources to do this. They make
submissions for their budget every year to the provincial and federal
governments around their legislative mandates.
So they will have the resources to do this kind of work.
They take it very seriously as well.
Mr.
Speaker, with respect to monetary penalties, we are mirroring what is
happening with the National Energy Board.
To reiterate, it is not about the penalty, it is about the fact that
you have to be compliant. If you
are not, there is a fine. Not
only that, you get acknowledged, publicly as well, which is not something
these companies want to do with respect to their reputations and so on.
It is just an added incentive, recognizing that the Criminal Code and
other acts are what will obviously be the types of legislation that will be
applied to more serious incidents.
The
other piece I would like to say is that the Member for Signal Hill- Quidi
Vidi is somewhat critical, Mr. Speaker.
She made a comment about consultations.
I just want to point out that the Standing Committee did have
representations from unions and environmental groups.
Ecojustice was asked for input.
I
will say to her as well, Mr. Speaker, I would expect that the environmental
groups and unions will be consulted around the regulations as they are
developed. So there will be
opportunities for input. It is a
fair point to raise. It is also
important to provide some opportunity for input and that is what certainly
has occurred here.
With
that, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate their input.
I think we are going to have a strong piece of legislation going
forward for the development of our offshore.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER:
Is it the pleasure of the
House that the said bill be now read the second time?
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
Contra-minded, 'nay.'
Carried.
CLERK:
An Act To Amend The
Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Newfoundland
And Labrador Act. (Bill 2)
MR. SPEAKER:
This bill has been read
the second time.
When
shall this bill be referred to the Committee of the Whole House?
MR. KING:
Tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER:
Tomorrow.
On
motion, a bill, An Act To Amend The Canada-Newfoundland And Labrador
Atlantic Accord Implementation Newfoundland And Labrador Act, read a second
time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House on tomorrow.
(Bill 2)
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government
House Leader.
MR. KING:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
At
this time, I would like to call Motion 1, that the House approves in general
the budgetary policy of the government, the Budget Speech.
MR. SPEAKER:
I recognize the hon. the
Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL:
Thank you very much, Mr.
Speaker.
I am
really pleased to be able to stand again in this House and speak to the
Budget as we now speak to the main motion.
The main motion, of course, is the approval of the Budget.
As
is no secret, we have a lot of concerns about this Budget.
I find it very interesting that the government calls this Budget
Balancing Choices for a Promising Future.
I look at that and I think choices for whom?
I looked at the word balancing.
Balancing for whom? I
looked at promising future and I have to think promising future for whom?
When
I read this Budget, when I look at the decisions that are in the Budget,
when I look at the financial and fiscal hole that this government has put us
into something they are now asking everybody in the Province to bear the
brunt of because we have no choice I say it certainly is not balanced.
It certainly is not a Budget of choices.
That is for the ordinary people of this Province.
There is absolutely no doubt of that, Mr. Speaker.
Let's look at some of the things that are in this Budget that we have
referred to a number of times now, and I think we have to refer to them
again. I know they certainly are
issues for the people in my district, and they are certainly things that
people have talked to me about.
One
of the big ones, Mr. Speaker, is the reinstatement of the provincial HST on
home heating. It was so
important when this government brought in the Residential Energy Rebate, and
the fact that people would pay the HST, but right there on our bills we see
the rebate of the provincial portion of the HST.
That
was such a break for people in this Province, such an important break in a
Province where for so many months of the year people have to have heat on in
their homes we can be in June and have to have heat on in our homes in a
Province with a growing and aging population where you have more and more
people living on fixed incomes, where you have senior citizens who are
living on very, very small pensions if they are lucky enough to have them,
whether those pensions are private pensions or public pensions.
You
have many senior citizens, especially women, who may not have worked outside
of the home. So not only do they
not have CPP or they may have CPP, a small CPP as a survivor of somebody,
of a husband or a wife who had CPP they are living in poverty and close to
poverty. That number is growing
in our Province though this government seems to ignore it.
For
the people like that, Mr. Speaker, not having to pay the provincial portion
of the HST on their home heating was a major thing.
It was so good when the government finally listened to us, because it
is a position that we have held for years, and put it in place.
It was so important that they did that.
What
is this Budget doing? This
Budget is taking it away, Mr. Speaker.
Not only is that happening, we have a 2 per cent increase on our HST
in general. Not only are people
having to accept the fact that they are no longer getting the rebate, they
are also having to pay an extra 2 per cent now on HST, which means 2 per
cent on their home energy, 2 per cent on their electricity, and 2 per cent
more on their oil, whatever it is that they use for their home heating.
This
cumulative effect is really going to be hard on low-income people, Mr.
Speaker. Not just on people on
Income Support, but very often people whom we call the working poor, people
who are working on a minimum wage that is not going up in any appreciable
way.
The
small increase that is going to happen in the fall will do nothing to
counteract what is happening.
This government refused to accept the recommendations of the committee they
put in place. It refused to
bring minimum wage up to a point where people would not be working and
living in poverty. They refused
to accept the recommendation that they bring the minimum wage up and then
every year have a cost-of-living increase in it.
Mr. Speaker, this Budget is not dealing with that.
This Budget has done nothing to help low-income and even
low-middle-income people. As a
matter of fact, it is adding to their pain.
Let's look at some of the other things that are in here.
They have made choices and balanced their Budget on the backs of
middle-income and low-income people when it comes to the cost of energy.
Who else are they balancing their Budget on?
Who else have the backs that have to bear what this government is
doing?
What is happening with our students?
The tuition hikes are being brought in by the university because of
this government's decision to not give $20 million to the university that
they were giving. The university
is making decisions that this government directed them to make, which are,
again, decisions on the back of people, decisions on the back of students,
Mr. Speaker. Balanced on their
backs, that is what this Budget is.
So
we have graduate students, international students, and students in the
medical school all facing immense increases in their tuition.
Then not only that, on top of that the fees in residences are going
to be increased as well by $500 a semester.
For a two-semester year that is $1,000.
Not only if you are a rural student, for example, and your tuition
has been increased and you are living in residence, then you are really
being hit by what they are doing.
They are doing it callously.
It is like they think people are not paying attention, that people
are dumb or something, that they do not understand how this is impacting
them.
Yet,
Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Federation of Students at the university has a
petition they are circulating. I
have a copy of that petition.
The things they have in it are really important.
Some of their main points are extremely important.
They talk about that the tuition increase will undermine the
Province's ability to counter out-migration and population decline, and to
attract and retain a skilled and educated workforce.
They know. They are
dealing with this. They have the
statistics. They are studying
this. They are analyzing it.
We
had an example just this morning.
I heard in the news that this week's graduating class at Memorial
University, from the faculty that trains our teachers half the teachers
who graduated last year, half the number.
What was the reason given?
Well, the Faculty of Education is taking less students.
Why is that? It is
because there is not a demand.
Why is there not a demand?
Because this government is not making the decisions around the educational
system that they need to make.
There is not a demand, one, because right now, this year they are cutting
77.5, I think, positions from our educational system.
They have continually been causing cuts to the educational system.
We have an outmoded formula for pupil-to-teacher ratio.
We do not have enough specialists.
If they were to seriously meet the needs of our educational system we
would have more teachers needed, and we would not have young people now not
being able to choose education as the way they want to go.
Even
if we look at their inclusion policy; their inclusion policy does not put in
place the resources that are needed to have children of every particular
need who might be in the same classroom.
Whatever the need is, they are all in the same classroom together all
day long without the resources to help either the children with the need, or
anybody else in that classroom, including the teacher who is in that
classroom. They are completely
creating a mess in our educational system and now we have fewer teachers
being graduated at the university.
What
else does the Canadian Federation of Students say?
They say that a fee increase for students living in on-campus
residences which I have spoken to will have a disproportionate impact on
students from rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
We are trying to build up rural Newfoundland and Labrador, but here
we are cutting down on the number of teachers who are graduating.
What else are we doing?
We
are also going to have a tuition raise in the medical school.
That has not been announced yet, but I understand it is a hefty one.
One of the things that have been happening in this Province, which is
good, is that we have been having more Newfoundlanders and Labradorians
graduating from the school of medicine.
They are going back to their communities, if not directly to their
individual community, at least to the region of their communities.
I
was impressed, for example, when I was on the West Coast last year spending
some time in the by-election, meeting two or three young doctors who were
from there delighted that they can go back home.
Well I think that the big hike in the tuition fee at the school of
medicine is going to have an impact on that, Mr. Speaker.
It is definitely going to have an impact on our having homegrown
medical professionals out around this Province.
So this is what they are doing.
They are really attacking the young people of our Province.
What
else about the tuition fees that are going to be difficult?
The tuition fee increases will make it more difficult for people to
obtain a post-secondary education here in the Province, further hindering
our economic recovery. Is that
what we want? They are saying
that we have an economic mess and they are trying to fix it.
Well they are certainly not fixing it by making it more difficult for
our young people to go to university.
They are not fixing it by making life more difficult for low-income
and middle-income people through the changes to the home heating expenses
that they have.
So
let's look at some of the other things that they have done; what I am
calling death by attrition, the death to positions in our public sector.
When you look at the sheet that the Department of Finance has in
their briefing document for the Budget we see that just this year
eighty-seven positions will be gone from the different departments of
government. What is it saving,
$5.2 million. Mr. Speaker, $5.2
million is a pittance. What is
going to happen? It is not going
to affect the attrition issue.
It is not going to affect the workers who are retiring.
It is not going to affect those who are leaving.
What is going to happen is it is going to affect the people who are
depending on services from the government.
You
take AES, for example. Last
night we had the Estimates for AES, our final Estimates.
We found that there will be nine positions gone this year.
Then every year from here on that will happen again over the five
years. The concern I have is
the minister, last night, said something that I really agreed with, that he
was the minister of the department that was the department which directly
took care of people. That is
true. It really does.
It
is not giving its money to somebody else to do the work.
It is not passing money onto health care and the work of health care
is being done by Eastern Health or Western or Central.
That department itself is a department that gives out Income Support
to people who are in dire straits for whatever reason, illness, or have lost
jobs, and they are beyond Employment Insurance or whatever.
They take care of those people.
They
take care of people with disabilities.
They take care, among those Income Support people, of seniors.
They do take care of people.
I found it very moving the way the minister spoke about that and saw
his responsibility. What is
going to happen if over the next five years we have over forty positions
gone in AES? Where are those
positions coming from? No
individual is losing a job because they are retiring, but what is going to
be the impact of having that many positons gone over five years in AES
alone? That is who they are
making their decisions about, Mr. Speaker.
It is on the backs of the people who they are making the decisions,
so some balance.
They
did something that looked very good and that was the tax adjustments.
I have the sheet in front of me. They
created two more brackets which was really good.
It is something I have been looking at for quite a while now and
saying we have to have increased tax brackets.
This government finally did it and I was glad to see it.
Up to incomes of $125,000 over the next four years there will be no
changes in the rate of the income tax.
So for the lowest bracket it is 7.7 per cent and the lowest racket,
which is an income of zero to $35,000.
Actually, a lot of people in that bracket do not pay tax, and that is
a reality because all of their income is used up and under the tax laws they
basically end up not having money that can be taxed.
The
second tax bracket goes up to $70,000 and they will be paying 12.5 per cent;
the third bracket goes up to $125,000 and they will be paying 13.3 per cent
for the next two years. Then
when you get into the fourth, they will start at 13.3 per cent.
The fourth bracket is $125,000 to $175,000.
They will be paying 13.3 per cent.
Then the next tax year they will pay 13.8 per cent, and in 2016 they
will pay 14.3 per cent.
That
is fair enough. In this day and
age, there are some people who are raising a family of two on $35,000 and
there are others raising a family of two on $100,000 and both saying they do
not have enough money. It is an
interesting dynamic, money, and how we spend money and how far money can go.
Let's look at the fifth bracket: income earners over $175,000, and that goes
all the way up to millionaires; they currently pay 13.3 per cent; the next
tax bracket, the tax bracket for this year that we are in, they are only
going up 1 per cent to 14.3, and then in 2016 they may go up to 15.3 per
cent.
We
have this tax bracket of the real high earners in our Province and this
government lost the opportunity to get a few more bucks from them because
15.3 per cent pales in comparison to some other provinces.
Nova Scotia, Ontario, Manitoba, many of the provinces have rates of
over 20 per cent for their top bracket.
Why didn't this government do that?
Why didn't they say okay, now that we have created a bracket which is
really the high earners, why don't we really take money from the high
earners?
For
example, a person who has a taxable income of $200,000 which is not what
they make, it is only the taxable income they will only have an increase
of $1,000 on their tax bill.
That is a pittance for them, Mr. Speaker.
It is half a percentage point.
This government lost an opportunity to really balance.
They say they have a balanced Budget and are balancing choices for a
promising future. They have
promised nothing to low-income people, they have promised nothing to
middle-income people, and they have said to the others that is okay, you go
away.
They
did not even look at the taxation for the large corporations.
Yes, they have raised slightly the tax for financial institutions,
but we have huge corporations out there in mining and oil and gas and in
other ways that do not even have to worry about whether or not their tax is
going up.
Mr.
Speaker, this government wants us to vote for this?
We obviously cannot vote for this Budget.
This is not a Budget for the people of this Province.
This is a Budget to deal with the mess that they have created, and we
will not support it.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER (Verge):
The hon. the
Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. F. COLLINS:
Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.
Mr.
Speaker, it is always interesting to hear the Third Party respond to our
Budget and our programs. I have
difficulty understanding really where they come from most of the time.
They speak in terms of a utopia out there that government is
responsible for to be all things to all people.
I do not know how they can justify that.
They
criticize us on balancing the books and balancing our Budget on the backs of
poor people. They always take
that position. There should be
no such things as food banks.
There should be no such things as poor housing.
There should be no such things as poverty.
Mr.
Speaker, granted, it is our responsibility to try to alleviate these things
as much as possible. It would be
great to get to the position where we could say in this world there is no
such thing as food banks anymore, there is no such thing as poverty, and
there is no such thing as people without housing.
They talk about a utopia that we have to provide.
We have to be all things to all people.
When
we do come up with a program or do come up with something good, then they
take credit for it. It was our
idea it was our idea. It is
always interesting to listen to the spin they put on it, but I am not going
to spend too much time talking about it today.
Mr.
Speaker, this is the debate now on the main motion on the Budget.
I spoke on the sub-amendment and I have spoken on the amendment.
Today I will get a chance to speak on the main motion itself.
Everything that I would say today undoubtedly has been said already
because we have been debating this now for a number of weeks.
It is pretty hard to come up with some new stuff.
There is a message to be given.
The Opposition has a message that they are trying to deliver and,
obviously, we have a message that we want to deliver.
I
mentioned the last time I spoke that I did not notice a great human cry in
the public about our Budget. I
did not notice a grand agitation on the part of the public towards what we
were doing. I think the
Opposition senses that as well, so they changed their tactics.
They came with an approach of criticizing our spending practices over
the last ten years. That is all
they have done for the last number of weeks is criticize our spending
practices. We have heard the
jargon and the term of squandering the money; $20 billion of money that we
wasted.
We
came through a time in this Province, the richest time in our history, when
we had more money available to us than in other time in our history.
They are saying because of that we should be in a great place today,
with all kinds of money in the bank for rainy days.
We should be in a great place because of all the access to money that
we had. That is what they are
saying. It is basically an
attack on our spending practices.
They
are saying that instead of doing that, we squandered all the money.
We spent like drunken sailors and today we are in a mess.
That is the best they can come up with.
I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that is a feeble attempt to criticize our
spending practices. They said we
should have put money away for a rainy day and we should not be in this
mess.
We
should have not spent $6 billion or $8 billion on roads and bridges and
schools and hospitals and ferries and so on.
As a matter of fact, today the Minister of Transportation in a
Ministerial Statement mentioned that we are going to be purchasing some
asphalt recycling machines. I
hope he puts them all in my district, by the way.
One of the responses from the other side was: We would not have
needed those machines if you had put enough money in the roads to start
with. What a contradiction we
would not need these recycling machines if we had put money in the roads and
kept them up the way we were supposed to.
They
constantly refer to the state of our roads and our bridges in the Province.
They talk about the Auditor General's report about bridges.
They criticized use for that; we should be spending more money to fix
up our bridges. On one side they
are saying we wasted all this money on infrastructure and then the next
argument they are saying we should have spent a lot more.
We
got all kinds of bridges in the Province that needs work.
I am happy to say, in my district, we got a lot of work done on
bridges. There is a new bridge
on Peter's River. We placed a
new bridge in O'Donnells. We
placed a new bridge in Colinet.
We rehabilitated four bridges from North Harbour to Branch.
We did a new bridge in fall river bridge in Fox Harbour.
We built a big bridge, of course, in Placentia it is still on the
go.
We
spent money on bridges, but we need to spend a lot more money on bridges.
We need to spend billions more on bridges.
We are doing a bridge now in O'Donnells in St. Mary's Bay $3
million that is the bridge across the river in O'Donnells.
For $3 million you could lay a lot of asphalt, but the bridge has to
be done.
When
we talk about wasting money and squandering money $20 billion we could
have spent another $20 billion and still have work to be done.
I fail to understand that argument.
On one side you could say we wasted so much money and we had access
to all of this money. So, today,
we should have had a kicker in the bank to get us through the bad times.
Well, we had some bad times.
When we came in 2003 how about a rainy day?
It was pouring in 2003, in terms of infrastructure.
It
is not enough, Mr. Speaker, to criticize us for spending money and then say
we should have spent a lot more.
We should have spent a lot more and could have spent a lot more, if we had
it. We get criticism because we
have not started the Corner Brook hospital.
We get criticized because we are not building the Waterford Hospital.
We get criticized because we are not building a new HMP, Her
Majesty's Penitentiary. We are
criticized because we are not building a new court precinct in St. John's;
we have not started one in Stephenville.
We are criticized because we do not have broadband services
everywhere.
Every day we get petitions on cellphone coverage from the other side, and on
and on and on it goes. We need
these things. We need these
services. We need this
infrastructure. We cannot afford to
build it. So if we had another
$20 billion, yes, we would spend it.
Why wouldn't we? We have
to spend it.
I
think the Opposition parties both of them recognize the need for more
infrastructure spending in spite of what they are saying about us wasting
money.
We
need more services and we need to address the issues that the NDP raises
about poverty, about housing, and poor people.
This all means money. It
is all about money. When you
have it, Mr. Speaker, it is great.
The more you have the better.
When you do not have it, you have problems.
We would like to have a lot more.
So
in spite of the billions that we spent, we could spend billions more.
I wish we had billions more so I could spend more in my district, I
tell you that. I would like to
spend a million more. We need
more schools because our situation is changing now.
We are going from the situation we had in the earlier days of mould
and so on, now it is a capacity issue.
Now we need more schools on the Northeast Avalon.
We have students coming out through the seams.
We need more schools. We
cannot build them all. We need
more hospitals and clinics.
We
need more long-term beds. Every
day we hear complaints about the need for long-term beds, about people lying
on stretchers in corridors, of not being able to get acute care beds because
they are occupied by long-term care patients.
We have heard it every day.
We need long-term care beds.
We
need roads. Come to my district
if you want to see road problems.
I have 540 kilometres of road in my district, Mr. Speaker.
It is probably more than any other district in the Province.
I do not have a main road.
Lots of districts have a main road going right through the district.
If you do two or three kilometers this year, two or three kilometers
next year, and ten kilometers the next year, then you are addressing the
main road that everybody uses so everybody benefits from it.
Mr.
Speaker, I can put a million dollars into a road in St. Mary's Bay and it
means nothing to the people in Whitbourne.
I can put a million dollars into the roads in Placentia and it means
nothing to the people in St. Mary's Bay and vice versa.
That is the nature of my district.
It is a challenge to try to have a presence throughout the district.
We
made a great start, but that is all we have done.
We have so much more to do.
We were so fortune, Mr. Speaker, to have the money at the right time.
When we came in 2003 we did not have a cent, not a penny.
We had crumbling infrastructure and people leaving in droves.
I
can remember going to Placentia, my hometown, and setting up a law practice
there in the late 1990s. At
night, you had to look twice to see a car passing because there was nothing
going on. Infrastructure was
crumbling and businesses were boarded up. It
is a different story today, Mr. Speaker.
We
were so fortunate to have the money at that time so we could spend it and
rebuild this Province. We built
it and we rebuilt it. We spent
billions. We did it because we
had to and we need to do so much more.
That is why I do not understand the argument.
I do not think the people out there
buy the argument that we squandered all that money and did nothing with it.
I do not believe that. I
do not believe that for a minute.
Their job is to criticize us and to hold our feet to the fire.
That is a noble effort.
The Opposition that is what they are all about.
They have to criticize us.
They have to keep our feet to the fire.
That is the role of the Opposition.
Given the state of the Province that we were in, in 2003-2004, we
were so fortunate to be able to get the money when we did and be able to do
so much with it. The criticism
of that, I think, is a feeble attempt to criticize the Budget.
I
mentioned that we have 540 kilometres of road in my district.
The minister today spoke about what caused the potholes to form this
time of year. I dread this time
of year. I dread the spring
because in the spring the potholes come.
In my district, boy, they come.
They come by the thousands.
At least when the winter comes the potholes are covered up.
In my district, the potholes are there and the roads are there.
Anybody who drives over it knows what they are like.
When you have 540 kilometres of it, Mr. Speaker, a million dollars
does not go very far.
I
cannot complain about the money that went into my district from the
Department of Transportation.
Probably more money went into my district in transportation than a lot, but
when you have 540 kilometres of road you need a lot of money to take care of
your needs.
I
hear the people over on the other side every day with their petitions about
roadwork. I understand what it
is like. In an election time,
Mr. Speaker, you knock on doors and you can talk to people about the deficit
reduction. You can talk to
people about health care. You
can talk to people about a lot of things.
They are waiting for you to shut up so they can ask you the question:
When are you going to fix my road?
Roads mean so much.
I am
grateful to the Department of Transportation for the attention that has been
given to roads and bridges in my district.
It is like I said earlier, we have done so much, but we need to do so
much more. Mr. Speaker, $20
billion give us another $20 billion and we will squander that, I say.
Mr.
Speaker, I want to speak about Municipal Capital Works for a minute.
I am going to go to my district Municipal Capital Works.
I see what we have done in those communities.
I see what we have done in St. Mary's in terms of water and sewer
improvements; and Gaskiers-Point La Haye, Riverhead, Colinet and Admiral's
Beach, the money that has been put into water and sewer improvements, in
wells and pumps and delivery systems.
I see the work that is going on in Branch and St. Bride's in water
improvements. It is all
necessary stuff, but it is not finished by a long shot.
More needs to be done.
In
Placentia, I can build up millions of dollars that have been spent.
A new state-of-the-art school, a new Arts and Culture Centre, a new
bridge, street improvements, the regatta site has been improved, investments
in health care, and on and on it goes.
We could spend a lot more.
AN HON. MEMBER:
Is that a waste?
No.
MR. F. COLLINS:
Is that a waste?
You tell me. I do not
think it is a waste.
Broadband service, Mr. Speaker, when I came into my district ten years ago
there were places in my district that I never envisaged that would have
high-speed Internet. It would
never happen. They were too
isolated, too far removed from the main cables and so on.
At that time, you had to have service by cable to get Internet
service.
Down
in Admiral's Beach, O'Donnells, St. Joseph's, Branch, Point Lance, Cape
Shore never see it as long as I lived.
Mr. Speaker, that is not the case today.
We still have some glitches in the St. Mary's Bay area and trying to
work out the difficulties, but now we have the district serviced, almost
totally, with broadband services, and with three or four other communities
to be finished this year.
When
I knocked on doors in my first election there were two main issues:
transportation and communication.
We work on them every year and every day.
I go down to Long Harbour-Mount Arlington Heights and the billions of
dollars spent in water systems; $2 million for a new industrial park that
will provide jobs after the construction phase of Vale is finished.
I go
to Whitbourne and I see the money put into water improvements and in the
arena. I see fire trucks in
Whitbourne, St. Bride's, and St. Joseph's.
This is money that we spent.
Was it wasted? The people
in those communities will not tell you that.
There is so much more to do, though.
My agenda when I came in ten years ago was when I left politics, I
wanted to see all my roads done.
Mr. Speaker, I could never be elected long enough to get it done.
I only realized that in the last three or four years.
I will never live long enough to get them done.
This
year we are in the second year of a very important project in my district.
From Placentia to St. Mary's Bay we are opening up the road that one
time was the main thoroughfare to St. John's.
When we opened up the Argentia Access Road in the 1960s, it gave
Placentia people direct access to the Trans-Canada Highway and onto St.
John's. We abandoned the road
from Placentia to St. Mary's Bay.
Now that road becomes significant for a whole lot of reasons:
tourism; people from St. Mary's Bay working in Argentia and Long Harbour;
they need to go back and forth for services, shopping, and medical needs and
so on. Mr. Speaker, I am proud
to say that before I leave this position we will have that road reopened and
redone from Placentia to St. Mary's Bay.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. F. COLLINS:
That is going to
bring significant traffic into St. Mary's Bay.
It will be great for tourism; we have some great sites along the way
that will be opened up, Mr. Speaker.
As far as roads are concerned that will be one thing that I will be
very proud of.
I
could go into a list, Mr. Speaker, repairs to town halls, recreation
centres, playgrounds, and ball fields and so on.
The list is endless. The
argument over there, the response to the Budget, has been simply to
criticize spending practices.
Talk to the people in my district about spending practices
AN HON. MEMBER:
It is ridiculous.
MR. F. COLLINS:
It is a feeble
attempt to attack the Budget.
Mr.
Speaker, I am going to clue up on that.
We spent a lot of money.
We were so fortunate to have the money to spend.
We were so fortunate to have it at the time we had it and to do the
things that we could do, not only in our district, Opposition districts as
well. We were so fortunate to be
able to do it when we did. When
we had the money to do it, we did it and we had to do it.
We do not have the money to do it now.
We cannot do it like we did.
We will in the future, it will come again; but, right now, we have to
cut our garment according to our cloth, and that is what we are doing with a
balanced, measured approach that speaks best for this Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER:
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. KING:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Given the hour of the day I would like to wish all members a good weekend
and I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board, that the House do now adjourn.
MR. SPEAKER:
The motion is this House
do now adjourn.
All
those in favour, 'aye.'
SOME HON. MEMBERS:
Aye.
MR. SPEAKER:
All those against, 'nay.'
The
House stands adjourned until Monday at 1:30 o'clock.
On
motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Monday, at 1:30
p.m.