The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, students of Carbonear Collegiate saw history come alive last week with one of Norway's most decorated war heroes of World War II, Captain Gunner Sonsteby, addressed Level I and Level II students at the school about his war experiences.

Mr. Sonsteby, a member of the Royal Norwegian Army, is the only Norwegian awarded the Norwegian War Cross with two bars, the highest award bestowed by Norway during the War. He has also written a book about his experiences called Report from #24 which he presented to each of the six Royal Canadian Legion branches in the Trinity-Conception region.

The eighty-three year old veteran lectured the high school students about his experiences and discussed anecdotal experiences about his many adventures during the Second World War. It was an excellent chance for local students to hear firsthand historical experience about the effort of veterans.

I want to especially thank Mr. Jack Murphy, President of Royal Canadian Legion, Carbonear Branch 23 for his hospitality during the visit.

Our veterans played an important role in our freedom, Mr. Speaker, and this visit to my area, was an excellent chance for our students to never forget the contribution these veterans made for their freedom.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate Barry Pearce of Trinity who was named a recipient of the 2000 Bancroft Award at the recent Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers' Association (NLTA) annual convention.

The Bancroft Award was establish in 1980 to mark the 90^th anniversary of the NLTA. The award recognizes outstanding service at the branch level of the NLTA for the betterment of education and professionalism for teachers.

A teacher for over twenty-nine years, Mr. Pearce retired in 1999. He held numerous offices at the branch level and was active in many issues affecting education and teaching in his branch.

I would like to especially congratulate Barry Pearce for receiving this award and on behalf of the residents of Trinity North publicly thank him for his years of service to his profession. I would also like to extend congratulations to the other Bancroft winners this year, Randy Smith of Port aux Basques, and Charles Dillon of St. Mary's.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am on a roll, Mr. Speaker. Two days in a row.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: I got my maiden speech in yesterday, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on the Model Forest and School District Hosting Envirothon. Starting today, May 3 and going until Saturday, May 5, in Corner Brook the Western Newfoundland Model Forest and the Deer Lake-Corner Brook-St. Barbe School District will be hosting a regional Envirothon Competition. This is the first time this competition will be held in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Envirothon is North America's largest and fastest-growing high school environmental competition. Teams of high school students from across Canada and the United States test their knowledge of wildlife, forestry, aquatics, soils and current environmental issues.

In 2000, a team from Regina High School in Corner Brook, under the guidance of teacher- advisor Cec Lake, participated in the Nova Scotia Envirothon in Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia. The team then went on to the Canon International Envirothon, held at Acadia University in Nova Scotia.

This year, nine teams will compete at a local competition to earn the right to represent the Province at both the Nova Scotia event on May 11 and May 12 and the International Cannon Envirothon being held in Jackson, Mississippi on July 24-29.

I would like to commend those involved in organizing this event and I also extend best wishes to all participants.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, and Recreation.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to update my hon. colleagues with the most recent filming activity taking place in our Province. Shooting has begun in the Province for the film, The Shipping News, which is based on the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel by E. Annie Proulx.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation has been involved in this production since its inception in 1997. Prior to the establishment of the corporation, the former Departments of Industry, Trade and Technology, and Development and Rural Renewal were involved in the logistical stages of this project.

The production company, Miramax Productions, has been in the Trinity area since March building sets. Filming recently commenced and will continue through May and June months. Approximately half of the production will be filmed here, primarily in the Trinity-Bonavista area, which was the same region used for the shooting of the mini-series, Random Passage, last year. Random Passage was just in Ireland and shown in Ireland with the directors there and had a very positive response. One of the main settings for The Shipping News will be the Quoyle House located at Savage Point in Trinity Bight.

Mr. Speaker, this Hollywood production will bring tremendous economic benefits to the Province. Over 200 accommodations have been secured in the Trinity and Bonavista areas and the production company has hired many local people to work on this exciting project. As well, the Wave Tank at Memorial University has been booked for a two-week period for filming. This production activity is expected to generate approximately $20 million in the provincial economy.

The film is being directed by Lars Hallstrom, who originally won an award for Cider House Rules, and the film stars include Oscar winner Kevin Spacey.

Mr. Speaker, it is positive to see this Hollywood production being created in our own back yard, and we are very eager to see Newfoundland and Labrador on the big screen. This is a golden opportunity to exhibit our Province to the entire world, as this film will help create more awareness of the spectacular scenery and beauty of our Province. Productions like this one and others, including the filming of Random Passage and The Red Door, help to build both a viable filming industry as well as support for our growing tourism industry.

This will be a banner year for Newfoundland and Labrador's film industry, and we look forward to helping continue the growth and momentum in this valuable industry.

To demonstrate the level of activity and development within the local film industry, we would like to point out that the Film Development Corporation has committed for this fiscal year approximately $1.5 million for the development and production of local films, and the level of requests for funding speaks volumes to the potential that exists in this industry.

I would like to congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, a corporation of the provincial government, for their hard work in securing film production projects and promoting this Province as a great place to do business.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We welcome the good news about a major film project in this Province. Certainly, they are contributing tremendously to the local economy, particularly in the rural communities on the Bonavista Peninsula.

From my own perspective, I am disappointed that The Shipping News, which was set in a Northern Peninsula community, was filmed largely outside our Province and none of the benefits flowed directly to our area.

While we applaud the government for starting to tap into the enormous potential of the movie-making industry, we note that this Province was late off the mark and still taking time playing catch-up.

With the low Canadian dollar, places with Vancouver and Halifax have been booming, reaping hundreds of millions of dollars from the U.S. film industry and kick-starting local companies.

We do have questions about whether this Province is able to handle requests for major multiple film proposals in a timely and efficient manner. Is the learning curve too steep? Are we losing benefits to other regions because of bureaucratic red tape and inefficient process? We have to do all we can to ensure we get what we can from this growing industry, because our communities cannot afford to lose out.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We certainly welcome the news about The Shipping News being shot to a large extent in this Province. Certainly, the work of the Film Development Corporation has been positive in the last number of years.

We were told that our late arrival as a film development corporation province was good because we had solved all of the problems and we knew how to do it right. Well, Mr. Speaker, we just lost three films because the minister has said himself that we really haven't had time to study the sector.

We have to be involved in this sector in a very big way. We have to see a sound stage built here. There is a proposal afoot for a sound stage in the stadium site here in St. John's. Is this government going to get behind that and try and make that happen so that we, too, can take advantage of the very large amount of filming being undertaken in this country to the benefit of our economy and our workers?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MS FOOTE: A point of privilege, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of privilege, the hon. the Minister of Education.

MS FOOTE: I rise, Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege today.

I want to point to a press release that was put out by my critic, the Member for Habour Main-Whitbourne. I am disturbed about the content of the release, particularly the headline which says the Education Minister reverses position on primary school language arts.

The member opposite knows this is not the case. It is interfering with my ability, as Minister of Education, to do a responsible job for the students of this Province. The member opposite is playing games with the education of the children of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, it is hard to imagine that, as a former teacher - and thank heavens it is former teacher - he is standing in this House asking questions and then fabricating a response and putting it out for the parents and the children in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I have a problem with this. I rise on a point of privilege, because I really believe it is interfering in my ability to do a job.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to continue with her -

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, not only the education critic, but the leader of the Opposition party, Mr. Danny Williams, has fallen into the same trap. I really regret that a man of that caliber would stoop to such a low political tactic.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the point of privilege, I might add that the minister must feel very defensive about an issue, if she rises on a point of privilege.

Mr. Speaker, §31.(3) of Beauchesne 6^th Edition indicates -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Opposition House Leader. I ask him now to continue.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Beauchesne 6^th Edition, §31.(3) indicates that, "Statements made outside the House by a Member may not be used as the basis for a question of privilege."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, this is a very important point of privilege. It represents members recognizing the importance of not misrepresenting facts, and this is what this particular -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask hon. members now to let the Government House Leader make his point.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, one of the fundamental principles of any Parliament is that members be accountable for what they say, that members report -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, one of the fundamental principles of Parliament is that people be held accountable for what they say, and when we make references -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask hon. members now to let the Government House Leader make his point.

MR. LUSH: - and when we make references to what a member says, when we quote what a members says, Mr. Speaker, there is an onus on us to report it accurately; and if we do not report it accurately, if we make any misrepresentation, then the onus is on the member to withdraw and to acknowledge that they have made a misrepresentation.

Here, Mr. Speaker, the headlines say that the Education Minister reverses position on primary school language arts. Mr. Speaker, there is not one iota, not one scintilla - not one scintilla! - of truth in that statement.

MR. J. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. LUSH: I say, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. member should withdraw his statement and apologize to the member. If hon. members are going to be making misrepresentations -

MR. J. BYRNE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. Member for Cape St. Francis not to interrupt.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: If that is the kind of activity that is going to go on in this House, Mr. Speaker, I will say that we would be reduced in stature considerably. The onus is on all hon. members to ensure that the principles of this House, that the rules under which we operate, are upheld and that members will speak the truth and report the truth, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will take the point raised by the hon. member under advisement.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My colleagues and I on this side of the House, and I am sure members on the opposite side of the House, have been getting quite a few telephone calls and mail from all over the Province in recent days from people who are very concerned about the takeover and change in the board of directors of FPI. People, Mr. Speaker, are concerned about two things: concentration of ownership within the fishing industry, and the fact that FPI is now in the hands and is directed by its competitors.

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture today is: How is he responding to these concerns, and do you have a plan to address the concerns of the people in the fishing industry?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As we have continued to say in the past month, we are concerned about FPI, unlike the members opposite who do a different flip or a flip-flop every single day of the week on where you stand on that issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: One day in the House of Assembly you are saying we should do something, we should nationalize this, and the next day, Mr. Speaker, your leader is on the open airways of this Province saying we shouldn't interfere, and then the next day he is saying we should interfere. So I would like for you to tell us where you stand and what you propose to do, but decide that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, what the Opposition should realize is that the only thing that has changed in FPI in the last few days is the board of directors. The owners, the shareholders of the company are the same today as they were last month. Nothing has changed except that the shareholders of that company exercised their democratic right to elect a new board of directors for that company.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are concerned about a number of issues that relate to FPI. We met yesterday, just hours after that board was elected and sworn in, with the majority of that board. We told them about our concerns and we also told them that we will make sure that they live up to the commitments that they made to the residents of this Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, yes, the only thing that has changed is the board of directors. The minister is absolutely correct, but a majority of FPI shares are now owned by FPIs competitors and a new board of directors was put together by FPIs owner/competitors. Can there be any doubt in the minister's mind that domestic and foreign competitors of FPI are now in charge of the company? Does he have any concern that they may be able to neutralize FPI as a competitor of those companies?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. member opposite said that now the board of directors is in the control of competitors with FPI. I will have the member opposite know that at least eight of those members are prominent Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

Another point I would like to make is that Mr. Barratt, who is the President of Sanford Seafoods in New Zealand, is also on that board of directors. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Young, himself, asked Mr. Barrett to be a member of the slate that he was proposing to put forward this year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I do not question the integrity, and I certainly do not propose to enhance the integrity, of the eight Newfoundlanders who are on the board of FPI now.

If Ford and GM controlled the board of Chrysler, I would suggest that everybody in this House would question the ability of Chrysler to compete against Ford and GM in the market.

I say to the minister - if I could have just a minute here - Fishery Products, from his statement yesterday -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I question the minister on this: Fishery Products International was created by the Legislature of the Province and that FPI legislation can be modified at any time to ensure that the provisions of the act reflect current circumstances and address temporary concerns.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, the question is: Will you, before this House closes in a couple of short weeks, table legislation to address the serious matters related to FPI, its competitors, and ensure that the people in the fishing industry of Newfoundland and Labrador and the integrity of FPI to be able to compete in the market as it is today?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There are a couple of things I would like to address about the integrity that he talks about. He is saying that the people over here have no integrity and that we do not care about the people of this Province. You also talked about integrity, and yesterday afternoon your leader got up and said that I am more in the dark than I was and that I know nothing about the fishery.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All that is happening here today is that the group opposite are trying to cast aspersions on the new board of FPI. That is certainly a very dangerous thing to be getting into. That company means a lot to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, especially those rural Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who are employed in that company!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: By casting aspersions that this company is going to be propped up and flung to the winds in this Province is not necessarily the best thing that you could be doing today.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are to the acting President of Treasury Board. The agreement that the Premier and the President of Treasury Board reached last month with CUPE and NAPE has not yet been signed. One union, CUPE, has even been reported today in The Telegram as saying that the agreement is off. I want to ask the minister: Why is the agreement that was negotiated falling apart?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The words that the Opposition House Leader chooses are his words, not the words of any union leader that negotiated with this government. Nobody has said that the agreement is off. As a matter of fact, I can report to the hon. member that the President of Treasury Board, who happens to be out today, as late as this morning has had a conversation with Mr. Lucas, representing CUPE. She, I think, attempted to have a conversation with Mr. Hanlon, although he expresses no concern and suggests, to the contrary, that the arrangements that were tentatively entered into, subject to ratification by his members, is a very, very good deal and he is happy with it. So, to suggest that the tentative agreement is off the rail is totally, completely and utterly inaccurate.

Also, to the extent there are issues that need to be discussed further with our officials of Treasury Board and the officials of the unions, these discussions are ongoing, will continue into early next week and, I think, the hon. member should have a restful weekend if he is fearful that the tentative deal is falling apart. Quite to the contrary, there were tentative deals. There were issues to be resolved that were agreed to be resolved at the local level because they are of a local nature and the process is carrying on, unfolding, and the outcome, I am quite confident, will be positive and a ratification vote will be put to the members eventually.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister, he has indicated an inaccurate statement here: Nobody has ever said the deal is off. Mr. Lucas, of CUPE, said the deal is off. I will ask the minister to read today's Telegram where he is quoted as saying the deal is off.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: I ask the minister: Isn't it a fact that the health care boards and some school boards have refused to sign off on agreement that the Premier and the President of Treasury Board made unless government puts up the money to those boards to pay for it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yes, I have read The Telegram this morning. It is not the most important document that comes across my desk 9:00 every morning, I say to the hon. member, but we do read it as a matter of course and I am familiar with the comments that are there.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. MATTHEWS: The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, the union membership has not rejected any tentative deal because the tentative deal, as I understand it, has not yet even been put to the members. That process will happen imminently as always happens in the course of tentative agreements that are subject to ratification by membership. As I understand it, the ratification process will start sometime soon by both NAPE and CUPE, and we will await the outcome of that process. Obviously, we will not comment on it or speak to it because it would not be right.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask the minister if you actually knew what they were doing on that day because the settlement that was accepted involves cost fare over and above the salary and pension increases that were announced? Isn't it a fact that the minister committed this government to contract benefits without knowing what the cost would be and you are now trying to download those costs on the hospital boards and the school boards in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. MATTHEWS: No, Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MATTHEWS: The question he asked was: Did the Premier and the President of the Treasury Board know what they were doing and agreeing to? Absolutely, they knew what they were doing and agreeing to. More than that, if he does not have a level of comfort in that, it is quite apparent, I think, to everyone in the Province that the president of the two unions knew what they were talking about and had agreed to, and the level of confidence expressed by Tom Hanlon and NAPE in the tentative agreement that has been reached, I think, is affirmed in the paper this morning. There are some local issues that have to be concluded in terms of the details that need to be worked out. That was acknowledged by the union when the tentative agreement was done, as well as by government. These matters will be worked out between Treasury Board officials and between members of the various unions, and the tentative agreement will then move forward to hopefully ratification subject to the union members being made aware of what the contents are and getting a chance to vote on it.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to ask the minister: Is he aware that a master agreement is now being negotiated amongst school boards - there were five separate agreements - and that now there are certain costs involved over and above the negotiated settlement, that this government is trying to put back on the boards in this Province? Is the minister aware of that master agreement?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, contrary to public perception and maybe the perception of the hon. member, I will try to be non-provocative so that he does not have to wear himself out asking supplementaries.

We are not trying to download unknown costs to school boards or hospital boards beyond what was generally agreed to in the tentative agreement and subject to working out certain local conditions that were agreed to be worked out at the local level between both government, NAPE and CUPE. Beyond that, no, we have not and we are not inflicting or contemplating passing along costs that would be extraordinary to the normal process of working out these issues.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. About three weeks ago, I raised some concerns here in this House as it relates to seasonal workers, and I think particularly the fish plant workers, fishermen, loggers and other people who cannot return to work for reasons beyond their control. I raised the concern that those people now have their employment insurance benefits cut off because of the duration they are entitled to under the new rules and regulations. The minister assured me that it was not only the people on this side who were concerned, but that he was concerned as well and that he was working with his federal cousins in Ottawa to bring some resolution to this. I wonder if the minister would give not only myself but those seasonal workers who are laid off, an update of his success in dealing with his counterparts in Ottawa to resolve this very serious situation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I assured the member at that time that I was certainly very concerned about this. I do not know if a person's level of concern can be measured; but, as we can measure IQs - I am not so sure it is as definitive as that - I did tell the hon. member that I did not think his side had a monopoly on concern, that we were concerned on this side and will continue to show concern.

Now, I may have to force the hon. member to change his press release, because I know that he probably has his press release all prepared, but I am going to defer this question to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment who has been working directly on this in the past couple of weeks.

I am going to defer to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

I ask the hon. minister now to quickly give an answer.

MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Indeed, as my hon. colleague has pointed out, one of the responsibilities that I do have in my Ministry of Human Resources and Employment is to deal directly with the EI program. I understand the concerns raised by the hon. member opposite. He and I have discussed these things on a number of occasions. All hon. members of this House, especially those who represent rural districts, have a real understanding and feeling for how important the EI program is to the people of this Province. In fact, I have lived and worked with this for a number of years. I have many people in my own district who are dependent on this. In fact, rural Newfoundland today could not survive if we did not have the EI program present.

One of the things I have always lived in fear of, as a member representing a rural riding, is that whenever we look at EI reform, all it would take would be one simple change, and it has sometimes been talked about, that you would have to draw down benefits in the Province in which you qualify. One simple change like that and we would wipe out rural Newfoundland.

Mr. Speaker, indeed we are very vigilant. As a government, we are very much aware of how important this is.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer quickly.

MR. SMITH: We are appreciative of the changes that are presently being made. I would ask the hon. member to just restrain himself. I will speak directly to the question. We are pleased with the changes that have been made in response to representations that have been made from both sides of the House, and the changes that are currently before Parliament and proceeding through -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister now to finish his answer quickly.

MR. SMITH: - will make a significant difference, but we will be pressing for additional changes as well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister that the need is now. The need is not in three or four weeks time. It was five or six weeks ago, and it continues today.

Minister, we are not talking about a cash-strapped program here; we are talking about a program that has in excess of $30 billion in it. We are talking about a program that the federal Prime Minister, the Prime Minister of this country, apologized to the people in the country for the draconian changes that he brought about as it relates to EI.

I ask the minister: What advice or what comfort can he give to the thousands of people who are out there today unemployed, unable to support their families? Where does he suggest they turn in order to provide for their families for the necessities of life?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, with regard to the specific issue that the hon. member raises, indeed we have been actively pursuing that. In collaboration with my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, we have been addressing that very specific issue with the appropriate ministers at the federal level.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister, it is certainly not the first choice of many of those individuals, but for some of them it might be the only choice, and that is to go to your department to look for provincial funding. Unfortunately, you have a policy that states that all income that has been awarded to somebody within the last sixty days is taken into account. Some people have their income tax return back, which you take into consideration.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question.

MR. FITZGERALD: Other considerations that have been taken into is unemployment insurance this last five or six weeks. You can change it to make a difference. Will you today commit to do away with that policy, to help those very people we are talking about?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I cannot respond with just a blanket statement that would deal with all of the issues that the hon. member raises here. All I can commit to do, as a minister of the department with responsibility for carrying out a certain mandate, what we have to do is look at the individual cases. If an individual presents himself or herself, looking for assistance from my department, then we will certainly look at that.

I do have to say to the hon. member that we do in fact have to look at all of the issues that he has raised. We have to determine eligibility. Everybody who goes, who presents himself to my department, is subject to the same type of scrutiny and examination; but, we will certainly be prepared to look at each and every individual case. Where we can assist, we will be glad to do so.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. The negotiating text of the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas, as discussed at the Quebec summit, have not been made fully public yet. Yet, Trade Minister Pierre Pettigrew says that the provinces have had access to the negotiating text for some weeks.

Will the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs advise the House what the implications of the Free Trade Agreement for the Americas are for the export of bulk water from this Province, particularly at Gisborne Lake? Will he make available the text of the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas to the public for scrutiny so that we can assure ourselves what the consequences of the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas might be for this Province, including the export of bulk water from Gisborne Lake?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows very well that there has been no indication that the export of bulk water will have any effect at all with respect to free trade. He knows that.

He knows that there has been nothing definitive decided on this. He knows that quite well. He just wants to play politics with this situation at this moment.

Mr. Speaker, if there is anything the hon. gentleman wants tabled, that can be tabled, we will table it for him. Anything that we have in our possession that will enlighten members opposite, we will do that. We are an open government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: We are as open as an open book, and anything we can table we are going to table.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

He is starting to sound like the Liberals and Tories in the House of Commons, who said that NAFTA wasn't going to affect water either.

Why is the SunBelts Corporation of California suing, under the NAFTA agreement for bulk water? Every indication is that Chapter 11 (inaudible) provisions are in the FTA. Will the minister table those provisions of the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas so that we can judge for ourselves? Because the words of the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs are like the words of his federal counterparts; they cannot be accepted at face value.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, we are government that is not afraid to look into knowledge. We are not afraid to open up debate, to open up discussion, to the people of this Province. That is why we are taking a look at Gisborne Lake. That is why we are taking a look at it, because we know that we have intelligent people. Given the facts, our people are able to make an intelligent decision, and that is what is going to happen.

Mr. Speaker, if we had to table all of the documents the hon. members want tabled, we would have to raise the ceiling of this House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LUSH: They want everything tabled!

I can tell you, if we have in our possession information that we think will enlighten members opposite, will make them a little more enlightened, we will table it in the House, supposing we have to remove the ceiling!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's West.

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, and they concern Ms Nellie Nippard, a person who was stabbed thirty-three times. Ms Nippard basically went very public with a very private matter in her fight to ensure that victims of crime, such as she herself suffered, would have standing at the National Parole Board. But it seems that standing is available only to people who can afford it, and people like Ms Nippard are again being victimized because they cannot afford to appear in front of the parole board. What is the government prepared to do about that?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS KELLY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to get this question because I think, as the member may know, Nellie Nippard is from Central Newfoundland, and the women's centre out there have been very, very supportive - and all the people of Central Newfoundland - in ensuring and helping Nellie, who I think made history when she was able to obtain standing for herself and for other victims at parole hearings.

Of course, while she has standing, she is not allowed to speak. We have worked very hard, many of the women here in Newfoundland and Labrador and across the country, to ensure that in the future, and we hope that in the very near future, she will be able to not only attend, but to speak.

The issue the member mentions today though, of being able to afford to attend, because it is important, that while she may have access, it is also an affordability issue. We will ensure that Nellie Nippard is able to attend these hearings, but also we are ensuring that at the fall meeting of the Ministers' Responsible for the Status of Women across this country, that it is on the agenda to move forward with an item to solve this issue of affordability for victims, like Nellie Nippard, who have made such a huge contribution already, but should never be denied, while you have the right to attend, the access to attend.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's West.

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask the minister now - in response to my question she said that they would ensure that Nellie Nippard would be able to attend. Is the minister telling me today that the government is going to provide financing for Nellie Nippard to attend the parole hearing which is coming up very shortly?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The ability to go, as my colleague just said, will be provided, but until I speak to Nellie myself, and until we look into this issue with her, it is very difficult for me to provide answers. I have already had several calls today to my office of offers to help Nellie. I have also, through the Women's Policy Office and through several other avenues within government, already made inquiries into the fact that we need to assist her to make this happen. Nellie Nippard will be able to attend that parole hearing, either with government assistance or with other types of assistance that will be determined in the next few hours.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's West.

MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to say to the minister that Nellie Nippard went public years ago when she found herself in the unfortunate circumstance of being a victim of a very terrible crime. Now she has had to go public again to demonstrate how poor she is and she has to go to, either to the women's centers out there - is government going to provide funding, or do the people have to have bake sales in the mall so that Nellie Nippard can get to the parole hearing?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

No, people do not have to have bake sales and take up collections in this instance. They do not. I have already answered the member's question in that way. The government has not been approached on this until today. We will have an answer very shortly. As I have said to you, I am the MHA for Gander district, the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, and I tell you that Nellie Nippard will have the financial resources that will not come from her own pocket or from bake sales to attend that hearing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.

Order, please!

Before I recognize the hon. minister, I want to acknowledge today the presence of a former Member of the House of Assembly. He was the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse Clair, Mr. Danny Dumaresque.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the report of the Public Tender Act exemptions for March.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I hereby table the Annual Report for the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women Newfoundland and Labrador for the fiscal year 1999-2000.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour.

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, An Act To Amend The Workplace Health, Safety And Compensation Act, And The Occupational Health And Safety Act. Bill 16.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have a petition against the bulk export of water from Newfoundland and Labrador.

The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, reads:

We, the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, wish to petition the House of Assembly, with copies to the House of Commons, to oppose the bulk export of water from this Province.

Every major resource, such as Churchill Falls, that has been developed in Newfoundland and Labrador has resulted in the majority of benefits going outside the Province.

It is time that we demand our full and fair share!

With water being one of the few resources remaining where we have the opportunity to deliver maximum benefits through jobs, spinoffs from secondary processing, as well as royalties, we demand that any water sold must be bottled and processed in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, this issue has been well debated throughout the Province. The people of Newfoundland and Labrador have spoken. The people of Newfoundland and Labrador have made very clear what they want done with this resource; and what they want done with this resource is to have it processed in this Province, to have it bottled in this Province, to give secondary jobs, to give spinoff and royalties to his Province.

It is no different, Mr. Speaker, than what they want done with the ore from Voisey's Bay. It is no different than what government has been promising to do with our resources, to get maximum benefits, our full and fair share. That is what the people of this Province are asking for this resource, Mr. Speaker. That is what the people of this Province are asking to have done with our water, to not only protect it but to ensure that the people of this Province get maximum benefits in terms of jobs, secondary processing, packaging and transportation. It is time that we do that with our resources.

We have heard other members of the House, from the other side of the House, say that water is very, very inexpensive to process, it is perhaps even more valuable than oil. When you look at the cost of putting Hibernia out there, the gravity-based structure, the seismic work, exploration and everything else, to make Hibernia a reality - and it would be a fraction of the cost, Mr. Speaker, to get a processing facility here to bottle water. We already have bottling plants here in this Province and they are growing by leaps and bounds. The bottling water industry throughout the world is growing by leaps and bounds. The demand for water throughout the world is growing.

There will come a time when water will be so valuable that it will be very easy to sell, whatever quantities we want to sell, bottled or in any other form.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like, today, to present a petition on behalf of the people of Jackson's Arm, Sop's Arm-Pollards Point and area, on a health care issue in that area.

Mr. Speaker, there are about 1,200 people and two fish plants in this area employing over 200 people in a twenty-four hour period in the middle of the fishing season certainly. The health care centre in the area is certainly desperately lacking in staff, and there is no doctor permanently stationed in this area.

For three days a week the health care that is provided in this area is in the form of a doctor who comes in from Deer Lake, from 10:00 a.m. until 3:00 p.m., as I said, for three days a week. The remainder of the week, the other two days in the working week, the health care is provided by a nurse practitioner. So, on the weekends they are basically without any health care services, and are desperately lacking throughout the week.

As I said, Mr. Speaker, there are 1,200 people in this area and it is a long distance from this area to the nearest health care centre. Also, in the summer with the fish plant working, there are logging operations in this area, there are tourism operations in the area, and without a doctor within the area, I would suggest, that people are in a very desperate situation here and find themselves, from time to time, having to travel to Corner Brook for health care services. As anybody who is familiar with the area knows, it is quite a distance for anybody to travel for health care under the best of circumstances. When you get into the winter months you will certainly find, from time to time, that it is practically impossible to get through. Putting your life in danger to try to improve your health is certainly not a very good predicament to find yourself in.

Mr. Speaker, this is sort of, I hesitate to say typical, but it is certainly not an uncommon situation around Newfoundland and Labrador where we find shortages of doctors and health care providers. In my own district, from time to time, we find ourselves desperately lacking health care services in areas like Flowers Cove and Roddickton and, from time to time, in St. Anthony. This is an issue, I think, that the government really needs to seriously look at and, as the petitioners say: we urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and particularly the Minister of Health, to undertake an aggressive search for a doctor who is willing to permanently locate in this area of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, on the behalf of the people in Jackson's Arm, Sops Arm and the Pollards Point area, I present this petition to the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislation convened and, as in duty bound, our petitioners will ever pray.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Motion 3, Mr. Speaker. I ask leave to move first reading of a bill entitled, An Act to Amend The Provincial Court Act, 1991. (Bill 14)

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act, 1991," carried. (Bill 14)

On motion, Bill 14 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, Order 3, Concurrence Motion, Government Services Committee.

MR. SPEAKER: Order 3, the Government Services Committee, Concurrence Motion.

The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to stand today and make a few comments on the concurrence debate as it relates to the Government Services Committee under the headings of Municipal and Provincial Affairs; Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation; Department of Environment; Works Services and Transportation; Finance; Public Service Commission; and Department of Government Services and Lands.

Certainly it is interesting when I look at these headings today - and I think it is time that the government started having a serious look at the financial situation in the Province, and where we are headed here, especially out in rural Newfoundland where there are a lot of concerns. I think it is time to get back to the basics in this (inaudible).

As I was preparing some remarks today I just happened to be forwarded a copy of this weeks The Newfoundland Herald and I was really surprised at the readings, Mr. Speaker. On page 38 and 39 there is a major interview with the former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. It is certainly interesting; some very interesting comments from the former minister. When I look back, a lot of it has to do with the leadership race that was held back in February, but certainly it was very interesting. When I look around and see some of the members on the other side, I can see why there was a bit of a hesitation today when the former Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair happened to be in the Speaker's gallery. It is very interesting that everything would come together on a day that I decide to talk about back to the basics.

A lot of people, I would say, are very concerned that the former Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair is back in town again, because when he was roaming around town in January, I am telling you, there were a lot of nervous people on the other side of the House. Certainly, as it closed in on the campaign in February, and they headed off to the Glacier, there were a lot of concerns in this House. The Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace was one of the people who was very concerned. He was very concerned, Mr. Speaker. I see him down now trying to, I guess, receive some forgiveness for his sins in February. Knowing the former Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair very well, and after spending a few years here in the House with him, I know that he does not forgive very quickly. I would not say he has forgiven the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, and if he did forgive him for his doings in February, I would say that he received a heavy penance.

I would like to make a few comments, if I could, on what I believe is a time that has certainly changed the face of Newfoundland politics. As we sit here in the House, certainly we have some concerns. Everybody thinks that all is well. If I could quote from the Premier, on the stage, after receiving the leadership of the party by fourteen votes, he said: the key for all of us is this: as of now there are no more campaign teams inside the Liberal Party. There is just one great, strong united Liberal Party that can move forward with pride from today.

I have to say, when we look here today and discuss the finances of the Province, and we are discussing things as important as government services, and discussing the Public Service Commission, we think there is one united family. Then I go to this weekend's edition of The Newfoundland Herald and I find I am really confused. I see the Government House Leader looking over. I would say at times we are all confused. I really find it strange sometimes, and I am confused on some of the things that happened, and I will get to those in a few minutes.

In the meantime, I would just like to say that there are a lot of people hurting out in Newfoundland and Labrador, there is a lot of concern out in Newfoundland and Labrador, and certainly there are a lot of people confused of what the plan is of this government; what the plan is to address the concerns in rural Newfoundland, what the plan is to address the concerns of people who have been forced on social assistance in this Province, to know what the plan is to address the concerns that have been raised with the FPI situation, and all of these issues that are out there. At times we are all somewhat concerned about what can happen.

We look and we see that many people from rural Newfoundland came into St. John's, into Mount Pearl, in February, with a plan. A lot of people who were delegates to the Liberal convention came in here with a plan, and that plan was to elect the then Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture as the new leader and the new Premier of the Province, because they felt, the people of the Province felt, that he would have a better idea of how to address the concerns in rural Newfoundland and how to, I guess, get to the bottom of the issues.

Then, when I pick up literature here, whether it is the local Charter, which covers the Placentia-Cape Shore area in my district, whether it is The Telegram, or whether it is The Newfoundland Herald, a quote from the former minister, Mr. Efford, in his leadership bid, and I found this very, very interesting, said: I couldn't understand why my supporters weren't cheering. Then, I knew it was over.

We look up then at the Member for Bay of Islands. I find it really, really strange that the Member for Bay of Islands went out of his way, from what I can understand, and raised a fair bit of money, a fair bit of cash, if my information is correct, and I have no reason to believe that my information is not correct. We are talking about finance here. I would like to talk about the finances - that the Member for Bay of Islands went out and raised a fair amount of money for the Grimes campaign. Where is the reward for all your hard work on the street, for all the hard work? You went out to try to do something to change the face of this Province, to try to do something to address the concerns of this Province. You went out and raised thousands of dollars, from what I can understand, thousands of dollars, I say to the Member for Bay of Islands. Years ago, we used to have a show on television called the Six Million Dollar Man. Now, we have the Member from Bay of Islands and they call him the $20,000 man. Well, he went out and raised his quota but he did not get as much as - did he get a thank you? I don't know. Did he get as much as a thank you, Mr. Speaker? That really concerns me.

MR. JOYCE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Just a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

The member is making accusations there that I was out raising money for Roger Grimes. If I did or did not -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I just want to remind hon. members, when referring to members of the House, they ought not to use their names.

Go ahead.

MR. JOYCE: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker.

- out raising money. If it is true, it is true; if it is not, it is not. It is not true.

Second of all, I do not ask for, and never, ever did ask for, any thank you from anybody in this House. My thank you is the people of Bay of Islands who get the benefits from a good Liberal government, whoever it is in government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, I don't want to upset the Member for Bay of Islands. All I am saying here is that I picked up a copy today of page 38 and 39 of The Newfoundland Herald this week, which somebody forwarded to me this morning, and there is a quote. You really have to ask yourself who is confused in this Province. Here is a quote, and the quote comes from the former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, "When I was on that stage, (Acting Premier) Beaton Tulk walked out, shook my hand and said, ‘Congratulations Premier.'" I am the Premier, he figured. "Then Roger Grimes came out and took my hand, congratulated me, held my hand high, turned around and left the stage."

Now, who was coddin' who? I would say, who was coddin' who?

MR. FITZGERALD: He said he was only here to represent the people, and that he had no concern.... Read that part there.

MR. MANNING: Okay, I will get that in a minute now.

Mr. Speaker, the part that concerned me the most, the part that certainly caused me the greatest concern, was another quote. If I could, Mr. Speaker, I would just read this quote from the former minister. I am sure he will agreed these are his words. He said, "Even now, weeks later, you wake up two or three o'clock in the morning, and you shake your head and you get that strange feeling down through you - what could I have done differently? Eight more ballots and I would have won. And then I think of things some of my friends did to me..." -

MR. EFFORD: Now my so-called friends.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: "...so it is difficult but time will hopefully heal ( all wounds)."

MR. EFFORD: It never will.

MR. MANNING: It never will?

That concerns me. One thing I have to say - the former minister is on the other side of the House, and has been since I came in here - I have to say in all honesty that he has treated me very well. Any time I went to him with a concern or an issue from the district, he treated me very well. All I can say is that, with friends like that, who wants enemies in that regard?

I look around over there and, I will be honest with you and say this with complete honesty and no malice intended: I was very surprised. I want to quote another paragraph, if I could. "After deciding to run for Premier, Efford soon realized he was on his own. Almost to a man, the rest of the Liberal caucus backed Grimes. That's when Efford turned to Dumaresque - his long-time friend and former MHA for the south coast of Labrador." Mr. Dumaresque happened to be here in the House. It is too bad he is not here now. I would like to congratulate him on a fine job. He rattled a lot of cages.

MR. EFFORD: A point of order, Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER (Ms Hodder): On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. EFFORD: I have to correct the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's. Not all of the caucus was against me. I have to mention Madam Speaker. Don't exclude Madam Speaker.

MR. MANNING: I was getting to that. I am not overly concerned about Madam Speaker, because I have known her for quite some time now and a fine lady she is. I was not surprised when I turned on the TV and found her supporting you. Do you know why I was not surprised? Because she comes from the grassroots. That was why I was not surprised.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: But, I was very surprised when I picked up a copy of the April 25 by-election in Trinity North. I was very surprised when I look at a place like Elliott's Cove, where the now sitting member got thirty-two votes and one in Elliott's Cove. I was very surprised when he won Hillview; I was very surprised when he won North West Brook; I was very surprised when he won Butter Cove and Gooseberry Cove; Little Heart's Ease; Queen's Cove; Petley; Britannia; Hickman's Harbour; Aspen Brook; Snooks Harbour. I was very surprised when he won all of them. I was very surprised, when he won all of them, and when he was asked to support you, after you going down and supporting him and making him sit here in the House of Assembly, I was very surprised that he did not say yes. I was very surprised when you went down to the hotel and announced your candidacy - and this Province was in an uproar about your candidacy, I would say. I know people in my own district were very excited that Mr. Efford was standing up to the plate. I was very surprised when he announced, down in the hotel here in downtown St. John's, that the Member for Trinity North was not sitting by his side. I have to be very honest; I am not joking.

I have said here in the House before and I will repeat it again, just to make sure that everybody is clear, because sometimes you have to do it a couple of times to make sure everybody is clear - I say to the Member for Bay of Islands, I will get back to you in a second.

I was out in Trinity North campaigning for our candidate, Mr. Stagg. We all went out and did out part, like everybody. I went out there, and everywhere I went people said to me: John Efford was here today; John Efford was here yesterday; the Member for Port de Grave was here last week. He was down there, knocking on doors, going around and campaigning. I still stand - somebody has to prove me wrong, and nobody has proven me wrong so far. Someone has to prove me wrong, that what I say is wrong, that the member, in my view - and we are all entitled to our own views - the Member for Trinity North would not be in the House today only for the efforts of John Efford.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Then, to stand up and say, I am going to run for the Premier of the Province and not have the support from people like him; because he comes from a district of grassroots. He comes from a rural district that depends a lot on the fishing industry, in which this minister had performed quite well for over a number of years. I was very surprised, to say the least, in that regard.

I have to ask the question, because in another comment that I contributed to the former minister, when I look around and see the people up in the nosebleed section, the Member for Trinity North; the Member for Carbonear -Harbour Grace; the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; while some of them got some positions, parliamentary assistants, to make them feel good, whatever the case may be, to keep them all at peace, there is another quote here and I found this one really interesting. I have to say that I find the quotes from the former minister interesting all the time, but there are a couple of other quotes that I found very interesting too. The former minister said, "There's no worse place to be for an individual who's got energy and who wants to do things than on the back benches on the government side." I will repeat, because I want to make sure that everybody got that, "There's no worse place to be for an individual who's got energy and who wants to do things than on the back benches of the government side."

I say to the former minister, I know there is not a lot of energy up there - I know that -but I would say there is no worse place to be. Coming from a man who was in the back benches, who ended up in the front benches, who is now - they thought they were going to put him up in the back benches but they had to put him out front. They were not going to put him up there. I have three or four copies of the seating plan here. Talk about confused. I came down one day and the former Minister of Mines and Energy was up in the back. That is the first sheet we got. Then the next day we came down with a sheet and he was down in the front, and the Member for Conception Bay East was back in the back. Then we came back down the next day and he was gone. He left altogether; he bailed out. Now we have the Member for Conception Bay East back down in the front, but the Member for Conception Bay East will always be in the front seat by himself because he will not be in any Cabinet. He was not going to be in Effort's Cabinet and he was not going -

MR. EFFORD: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. EFFORD: Madam Speaker, I have been here in the House of Assembly for almost sixteen years and I know debates are pretty wide-ranging when it comes to government services and concurrences. While he is continuing to talk about an article that was in The Newfoundland Herald, I know what is in the article and I do not need to listen to it all again. We need to get on with the government debate on government services. While we are wide-ranging, he has not yet mentioned one sentence of anything to do with government services in the budget debate.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Madam Speaker, I understand the interest that the former minister has in my comments. This is my preamble. I know you were sidetracked by talking to some other members, but what I started off talking about was the concern of government services, the concern of the financial situation in the Province, the concern of the Public Service Commission, as an example, the concern that people have out there. They were hoping to address the concerns that the people had and the issues they wanted to address through the leadership race.

If I could also make a few comments. Back a few weeks ago we had some concern raised about the by-election in Humber West. When the Leader of the Opposition questioned the Premier on when he was going to call a by-election in Humber West, the Premier said, at the time, that it would be up to the district executive in Humber West. Here we have a district which does not have representation here in the House and he says: It is going to be up to the executive of Humber West.

Well, I will read another quote, if I could, from Mr. Borden.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MANNING: What is that?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) take it you would not have (inaudible).

MR. MANNING: No, and if you did not have Efford you would not have a seat.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: So don't get on with that. If you did not have Efford you would not have a seat. I am not talking about effort, I am talking about John Efford.

Madam Speaker, if I could, I am trying to talk about Humber West but I keep getting interrupted. I know the Member for Trinity North has a lot on his conscience, but he will have to deal with that. I cannot handle that.

MADAM SPEAKER: I have to remind the hon. member that his time is up.

MR. MANNING: By leave.

MADAM SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MADAM SPEAKER: Leave has been withdrawn.

MR. MANNING: Madam Speaker, I want to make a few comments, if I could, on the by-election call in Humber West and concerns from Wayne Borden who is the -

MADAM SPEAKER: I remind the hon. member that leave has been withdrawn.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Madam Speaker, if the hon. member wanted to address the important issues of the day we would allow him to continue, but under the circumstance there is no leave.

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

MS KELLY: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

I think my first comment should be in concurrence with the Member for Port de Grave to say that we do need to speak on important government matters and the concurrence debate is important when we speak about the Estimates. My preamble I think is going to be much shorter. I should not run out of time, before my preamble is up, to get to the matters that I need to speak about today and that I want to speak about today.

Today I want to talk about the establishment of the Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education Department. I think that the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's ought to be very interested in that, being that he is my critic.

Also, I would like to talk a little about government's focus on youth services and post-secondary education, and to say that, in the creation of this department, we are creating a stronger voice for youth, for their issues to be heard within government. Actually, we need to create a central point of contact for youth in government so that their services and their programs can be brought to the forefront. By pulling together all of the programs that we have in government, the personnel that we have in government who are focused on the needs of youth and post-secondary education students, this will intensify our effort and to bring these issues to the forefront. I think it is very important that we are doing this.

We have put a lot of effort, over the last five years, into our K-12 system in bringing forward a system that is streamlined and adding services all the time. I think it is important that we relate now and make sure that we help our young people, while they are in the K-12 system, to move forward to post-secondary and to have good programs that are related to career experiences and career choices. We want to facilitate the transition from school to post-secondary education, and from post-secondary education to the labour market because, of course, as our economy is evolving and growing all the time, we need these skilled graduates.

I should say that one of the most important pieces of work that we have done over the past few years in the Jobs and Growth Consultations, we very strongly heard the message from the people of this Province. They said that we need to create opportunities for the young people in this Province, and with the creation of this department, that will be the main focus of our department. We will explore ways to help the Province's young people grow, mature and be a part of our economy while they are still youths. We also want to explore ways to export this Province's great educational products. As we know, with the declining enrollment in our school system right now, we will have less students to go into our post-secondary education facilities, in particular, Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador. So it is going to very important to have a good international program.

Speaking of that, this morning I started my day off by hosting a breakfast for a delegation that is here from the State of Qatar. In this Province, our College of the North Atlantic is listed on the short list of only four colleges across Canada to be selected for the largest international education contract ever to be signed in this country's history. We are on the short list, as I have said, the College of the North Atlantic with the Northern Alberta technical institute, with the Southern Alberta technical institute, NAIT and SAIT, and also with the British Columbia technical institute. So we are one of four. We had, I think, a very positive meeting this morning with the group from Qatar. Also, if we do win this contract it will be extremely important for the College of the North Atlantic and a recognition of the great international work that they are doing. So, it is a very important piece of work that we have been doing this week.

We also want, as I have said, to improve the capacity of our youth to participate in and gain from economic development because, you know, there really isn't much point in having our economy grow if our young people are not able to grow and prosper, and be a part of it. Right now, that is one of the biggest challenges we have to face as a government and as a people. In talking about government's commitment to post-secondary education it should be pointed out, and not many people in Newfoundland and Labrador know this, that the per student operating grant to Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador was ranked the highest of all provinces in eight of the last twelve years. The per student grant that this government gives to Memorial University is the highest in the country, and I think that is a very important piece of information. I think when Dr. Axel Meisen became the president of the university it was a very pleasant surprise for him to find out how well supported the university is here in our Province.

University tuition rates at Memorial University are the lowest in Atlantic Canada and our college tuition fees are second lowest. My colleague tells me that in Nova Scotia and PEI the tuition rates just went up. As you know, we are reducing tuition rates at Memorial by 10 per cent this year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS KELLY: We hope to continue this as a three-year program, to have a decrease of 10 per cent again next year and 5 per cent the following year. We have frozen the tuition rates at the College of the North Atlantic for medical students and for the College of the North Atlantic.

While we are moving in the right direction we need people to know that we are already doing a good job in that area. In particular, that is a very important thing for students who live outside of the areas that they are going to college, because it is more expensive for rural students to be going to college when you have to pay for your living expenses. Many people think that it is tuition that is the big impediment to many of these students, but, you know, the biggest impediment is the living expenses that students have when they move away from home.

We are also addressing students financial concerns through a review of the Student Aid Program. We hope that will result in improved financial arrangements for students of our Province. It is very difficult right now for a lot of students. They are graduating from the colleges and the university with a very high student debt. While we do have some good programs to address this, these programs need improvement. That is why the student aid review process was put in place by Minister Foote through the Department of Education six months ago, and it will be a part of my responsibilities to bring forward that program. We will be bringing the report forward for public consultation in the next few weeks. We will be putting it out to the private colleges, the public colleges, the universities, to anyone interested, in particular, parents and students across this Province so that we can receive input before I finalize a Cabinet paper to bring forward. We hope to move quickly on this. We hope that we will be able to, before September of this year, bring forward improvements for students in this Province.

Of course, one of the biggest things that we are continuing to do is lobby the federal government to restore transfer payments to the provinces for post-secondary education. That is something that all of the ministers of education, and the ministers of higher education, post-secondary, are pursuing across this country. But, I have to say, I am very proud of the fact that in spite of the fact that we have had less money in transfer payments we have been able to keep up our student grants to Memorial and our College of the North Atlantic.

Government operating grants to the university have increased by 11.3 per cent over the past two years, from $115 million in 1998-1999 to $128 million this year. Government operating grants to the College of the North Atlantic increased by 21 per cent in three years, from $37.8 million in 1997-1998 to $45 million in the year 2000, in this year.

Another very important program, I think, that Memorial University has been pursuing with government's assistance over the past four or five years is the Opportunity Fund. They started off trying to raise $25 million for new programs and put in place more bursaries and more scholarships at the university. They approached government and we said: We will match you dollar for dollar. We have done that. When they reached $25 million, and felt they could do better, we said: We will carry on with you. The program actually raised $29 million. In this years' budget we allocated $3 million to go towards the Opportunity Fund.

Last year, in the year 2000, we put $2.1 million into Sir Wilfred Grenfell College for refurbishment; $6 million went into renovations for the colleges Prince Philip Drive Campus. That was very, very important to do. As you know, we closed out the old Topsail Road campus and this $6 million really needed to be spent to refurbish the Prince Philip Drive campus.

Also, another half of a million dollars went into equipment purchases to modernize the medical science program; because there is not much point in having great classrooms if you do not have really good equipment, state-of-the-art, the best technology equipment to put into them. That was one of the reasons this year, when we retired the government air ambulance plane, while the frame of the plane was old, the avionics equipment on it was state-of-the-art. I have to thank the Department of Works, Services and Transportation for allowing this to happen. We now, at the College of the North Atlantic in the Gander campus, have this state-of-the-art avionic equipment for our students to be able to enhance their learning on.

I think that we have now to focus on several other issues at Memorial University. Because of the declining enrolment, we need to get involved in recruiting students from around the Province, from other provinces and countries, to attend Memorial University. It is extremely important that we do this. MUN has really enhanced its recruitment from high schools in the Province. They have been out there now annually with a set program, competing with the mainland universities who are down here trying to lure our students out of the Province. We have school groups that come regularly into Memorial University for guided tours, both at the Corner Brook campus and at the St. John's campus. MUN regularly meets with guidance counselors to keep them informed of new programs and new opportunities at Memorial.

Of course, the new president of Memorial University has been very active all around the Island part of the Province and into Labrador, as often as possible, meeting with groups and looking at opportunities and encouraging students in this Province to go to Memorial University.

We also now have recruiters from Memorial University who are going to the Eastern Seaboard of the United States. We have much closer working relationships right now in that area, in trade and export, but now we are also looking at recruiting students from that area of the United States. It is proving to be successful. Right now, we have enough Memorial alumni down there that they have formed their own group and are actively helping us. The council on higher education has been putting together new promotional materials to market this Province as an educational destination.

I have to say that when I was on the Team Canada mission in China in February, it was interesting to note that now Canada's main product for export is educational services. There is no doubt about it. This Province wants to be in that market. Because it has been proven, when students come here to go to school, they often see many business opportunities here and they stay afterwards and set up businesses. It is good for our economy.

I should also say that we now have a provincial Web site: www.education.gov.nf.ca. I think it is important that we look at the services that are listed on that site so we know just what we have in this Province. It is a product to be proud of.

This morning when I was meeting with the State of Gatar, they were telling me they could not believe, in a province that only has a little over a half million people, which is exactly about the same population that they have, that we probably have ten times the educational opportunity in this Province. That is why we have the ability to export this as a service.

Social and economic benefits are increasing the number of international students, and those opportunities include allowing us to maintain a comprehensive post-secondary education system despite declining demographics. It will increase opportunities to build international partnerships and expertise, as I have said, for education and the private sector, and it will increase opportunities for us to have student work terms and job placements overseas. So it is very important for us to be able to develop these international marketing opportunities in education, and it is something that I will be focusing on during my term in this portfolio.

I briefly mentioned before some of the initiatives that we are looking at for student aid. I would like to talk about that in a little more detail, because government is committed to ensuring the Student Aid Program is responsive to the needs of students, to all students in Newfoundland and Labrador.

We have been doing, as I have said, an internal review of our provincial loans program and we have also been working with the federal government on the Canada Student Loan Program. A complete review of the program was undertaken with students and other stakeholder groups on the committee. They have started to submit their report. We recognize the valuable and vital role that students play in helping us to improve services that are designed to meet them; so, of course, we have been including them every step of the way.

The report has many recommendations in it, and I think some of them are really, really interesting. One of the things that we are told would be a great improvement in the system would be, if we put in performance-based grants for students with the greatest need; if there were reductions in tuition costs. Of course, we have already started to act on that. Enhanced assistance during the repayment process: in other words, if we are going to be helping students out with the repayment process, do it right from the beginning so that you do not have as much interest occurring. Consolidation and enhancement of student employment programs: we have so many programs out there between the federal government and the provincial government and other groups and foundations and that, that students are telling us it is very confusing to them. In our new department, we hope to put in place an ability for students to have one place to come for information. The zonal boards across this Province have been saying exactly the same thing to us, as have our individual students.

We need also to put in measures to facilitate wise choice and timely completion of programs. I think a lot of students, when they are going off to post-secondary, some of them are even going on a whim. They are saying, because my mother or father was in that profession, maybe I would like to do that too; or, it is something that I have seen on television. It gets to be mighty expensive when you go off to university and discover, in your second or three year, after you have done a work term, that this is not what I really want to do. We would like to put programs in place that start in the K-12 system that are able to help students gain work experience, to do some job shadowing, to have a mentor, to be able to help them make wise career choices. It does not mean that you cannot change your mind when you are at a post-secondary educational institution, but it means that less students should have to do that, because they will make decisions based on a lot more information. The information is all out there, but the experience, the ability to get the experience, is not.

As we put in place our new student employment programs in the upcoming years, we want to tie them directly to the experience that students want to get, to help them determine what their career choice should be.

Of course, we need to put in alternate assistance measures for targeted groups. One of my very big interests and my very big concerns is the fact that we have a really good Early Childhood Development program, and a requirement in this Province, if you are to work in that profession, that you must have a two-year program. The two-year program is excellent; but, as we all know, many parents in this Province do not have the ability to pay really high child babysitting rates. We need to be able to assist students when they are coming out of this program, who have really high debt, because their wages are still not anywhere close to the national average. We need to look at this group in particular to ensure that students who are graduating from the Early Childhood Development programs will have some assistance so that they are able to go to work in their chosen profession, and not have to move into another job because they cannot afford to pay for their student loans.

We also, of course, need to make sure that there are reasonable accountability measures put in place. By that, I mean that students have to be able to, and the government must adhere to, certain programs so that students themselves have to be accountable and responsible when it comes to the borrowings of money for which they will have to pay back. We want them to have to pay back less, but we also know that everyone has to be responsible: government, parents and students.

The government plans to implement many of these recommendations for the next academic year. Right now we are working really, really hard in my department. I have staff that are extremely dedicated to this task, and they are working to ensure that we can put these programs in place by September, as I have said. Right now, we will soon have our consultation document out on the report that the Student Aid Review Committee did. Then we will look forward to hearing back from students and others, stakeholders in this system, to be able to consult with us, so that when we put the programs in place they address the real needs.

MS S. OSBORNE: (Inaudible).

MS KELLY: Is it really? Okay.

MR. SHELLEY: You told us.

MR. FITZGERALD: You said you weren't going to take much time.

MS KELLY: Yes, and here I am, I have actually used up all the time. You know, I wanted to talk about changes, further changes, that we are looking at with financial assistance legislation, but I am sure I will have another opportunity to do that. I wanted to talk about a few of the issues around youth out-migration also, but there will be other times to do that.

If the members would like to hear a little bit more about some summer employment programs, I could do that, but I can also do that at a later date.

MADAM SPEAKER: Does the hon. minister have leave?

MS KELLY: You would like to have that information.

AN HON. MEMBER: Go ahead.

MS S. OSBORNE: Yes, Minister.

MS KELLY: Okay. Well, I will conclude, Madam Speaker, by talking about the various employment opportunities that we would like to bring forward.

There will be strong support for youth attending post-secondary programs and initiatives, that will ensure high quality and affordable post-secondary education. Of course, the types of programs are both federal and provincial. Human Resources and Employment, who we work very closely with - we have the SWASP programs, we have the Graduate program, the Small Business Cooperative Placement program, the Newfoundland and Labrador Conservation Corp Green Initiative, and I should say, we would like to be able to put in place a white initiative also, which means you would be able to have a winter program for the Conservation Corp. We have students who are not able to access the post-secondary education system because they need to save money before they can go to school, and they also want to get some work experience. So we are going to be looking at enhancing that program. Of course, the high school student program, which we have now for Levels 1, 2 and 3, which I know many members greatly appreciate throughout all the districts in the Province, we would like to be able to expand that program a little.

From Health and Community Services we have the Community Youth Networks which are funded under the National Child Benefit and the Teen Tobacco Program. From the Department of Education we have the Youth Services Division which includes grants to the youth organizations, like Boy Scouts and the Boys and Girls Club and the 4-H Club. Of course, then we have the travel Exchange Programs, the Duke of Edinborough Award for the Young Canadian Challenge, and another really important program, I think, Tutoring for Tuition programs, because all students benefit from that. The students who do the tutoring are able to save money towards their education, but the students who need the tutoring really benefit. We hope to expand that program.

I think a lot of it is not so much that we need new programs, we need to expand the programs we have, because in many instances we are able to help put in place a few hundred students, but we should be able to expand that now. I hope that this year some of our programs for this summer, there will be increased weeks and increased availability for the programs.

Student aid and support for post-secondary education is also transferred to my new department. The new department will be taking steps to establish a process that will facilitate interaction between youth and government. Of course, over the next few weeks you should see an ad in the papers looking for nominations for the new Youth Advisory Council that will go into place. I hope that that Youth Advisory Council will represent youth from all over the Province, from various organizations, that there will be gender equality amongst that advisory board, that we will have youth that are disabled on the board, that we will have youth who are aboriginal, that it will be a very broadly based initiative, and I really look forward to receiving their advise.

Both HRE, Human Resources and Employment Department of government, and my own department are working together to develop innovative methods to address the needs of youth.

I thank you very much for giving me leave to expand on this a little and I look forward, before the debate in this House recesses later in May, to be able to tell you about more initiatives in my department.

Thank you.

AN HON. MEMBER: Bravo! Bravo!

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

There were times this afternoon I wondered exactly what expenditure heads we were doing, and I think the minister is probably a couple of days late in talking about Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

Madam Speaker, while some of the things the minister was saying may have been of interest, the one thing that she did not say, that would have been of tremendous interest to a lot of students in this Province, was the total debt load that students are building up as they go through Memorial University, as they go through the College of the North Atlantic. We have students today who are coming out of university owing $40,000, $50,000, and $60,000, and I did not hear the minister mention that at all. I believe, Madam Speaker, that if we are going to talk about grants or we are going to talk about this sort of thing, this is the type of thing that we should be talking about.

As well, Madam Speaker, on the heading that we are supposed to be on today, the expenditure of the Government Services Committee, I would like to touch on the Public Service Commission. I would like to know: Do we have a Public Service Commission anymore? Is there such an animal now within government? I understand that a short while ago we appointed a Mr. Bob Noseworthy as either Chairman or Vice Chairman of the Public Service Commission. I would like for somebody to tell me what Mr. Noseworthy's job is and exactly what he does in that department in Newfoundland and Labrador, when forty people were just hired, again to go to work with the Special Events Organization in this Province, of which none of the jobs went through the Pubic Service Commission in this Province; not one of them. There were somewhere close to forty people hired. I would like to know who hired them. I would like to know what Public Service Commission they went through, or are we still following on from the last -

AN HON. MEMBER: ( Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: Why don't you sit down in your seat and I will give you a chance to get up and talk all afternoon, boy.

So, Madam Speaker, we hired forty people. What papers did we run the advertising in? Where did we seek young people of Newfoundland and Labrador, or again was it on the whim of some minister that we should hire forty thousand people and stick them in the government jobs? There is a day coming, a day coming when this crowd will not be able to do that anymore. That day is coming and that day is probably not to far away. I think it is ridiculous that we can go out and hire forty people to go to work in the public service of this Province and there is no application, there are no ads, there is no call for employment, there is nothing. So, who's whim, Madam Speaker, was that done on?

I would really appreciate knowing exactly what Mr. Noseworthy's job is. I know he held a very responsible position with Municipal and Provincial Affairs and I also know that he is no longer there. So, I would like to know what Mr. Noseworthy's job is and I would like to know how many people Mr. Noseworthy and the Public Service Commission in this Province have the right to hire, and, in actual fact, do they have the right to hire anybody? I would also like for somebody to tell me where the forty people came from, what types of jobs they were, what salaries are in these jobs, where are they, what kind of salaries are we paying out. I think it is a question, Madam Speaker, that certainly begs to be answered.

As well, Madam Speaker, under the Government Services Committee we also have the Department of Works, Services, and Transportation. I have heard the minister say, I believe it is in excess of $250 odd million that is needed for paving in this Province this year. The man was going to dance a jig if he did not get somewhere close to that, and I believe I heard it announced a little while ago that we have $18 million to service this whole Province in roads; $18 million dollars. You take your 15 per cent or 20 per cent engineering fee away from that and it is not $18 million, Madam Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: ( Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: Yes, but you are not, you see, minister, you are not. So, that figure comes down and comes down by at least $3 million. So now, Madam Speaker, we are down somewhere in the $15 million range.

I know my colleague from his district, I am sure that he could take the $15 million and there would not be one nickle of it that would not be put to good use. He could do a tremendous job with that money. But then we have other districts in this Province that need a lot of servicing. Again, the amount of money for Works, Services and Transportation really bothers me. Again, the $150-odd million where we just bought used machinery from a company in Newfoundland and Labrador, absolutely no tender call, absolutely no consultation with the people who formerly had this equipment rented, and yet we spend this. Yet, the president of the Liberal Party says: I do not know anything about that. Now he is only the sales manager, or some kind of a manager who deals with this equipment, but yet he knows nothing about a $150-odd million purchase. What nonsense. What absolute nonsense!

As well, I would like to get into Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. I attended the Estimates Committee here that night, and at that particular time I thanked the minister and his staff - I think I did - for turning out that night. He had a fair crowd with him. I hardly realized there could be as many people in management working there, as the group he had sitting behind him on that side of the House.

There were an awful lot of questions concerning Newfoundland and Labrador Housing, the way in which we divvy up money. I am sure you have had the calls; I have had the calls. People are offered housing unsuitable to residents who have to move into this housings. I will give you one example of a call I yesterday from a single mother who has two children, one about one year old and the other about three, who was offered a residence in the city here. She lives outside right now, but because of marital problems she has to get out of where she presently lives. She has two very small children. On the back of the home that they were offered to move into, there is a 100 foot drop and not very many safeguards around for two very dear and small children. She told them that maybe she should not move into this home. She was then threatened and told: Either you take this house or you go back on a waiting list for one year.

Who are we serving? Are they serving themselves or are they serving the people of Newfoundland and Labrador? That is the question that bothers me, and it bothers me a great deal. I trust, before this day is out, I am going to have some kind of an answer to that complaint.

It is time that we did not use threats any more for people to get into what I consider to be acceptable accommodations. For a lady in her position, with two such very small children, I believe that this lady should certainly have been given much better consideration before this lady had to move into this type of facility, with that type of surrounding around that particular home.

Again, I raise that question here today. I also, Madam Speaker, in the Estimates Committee, raised the question: Where is the money coming from? Some of the people who work there, what do they think? That they put their hand in their own pocket and take out the money to repair somebody's home, to repair somebody's water system, is that what they think? If they do, they are wrong. That money comes from you and I, the taxpayers and the citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I believe there should be a lot more consideration given to this type of problem. If we are going to go out and fix those problems for people, then these are things we should do.

Over the last several days, under Municipal and Provincial Affairs, I have talked about infrastructure money. I am sure, Madam Speaker, you have the problems, and I do not disbelief that every member of this House has the problems. I have been into areas of this Province where I have seen what used to be white socks now brown because of the conditions of the water, and we expect the people of this Province to drink that?

I have stayed in hotels in this Province where, when you went into the room, there was a note on the desk where the phone was, saying: Please, do not drink the water. Now this is a hotel in this Province where we are trying to attract tourists to this Province. Yet, there was a note there saying: Please, do not drink the water. In other words, the water that goes into that hotel is not fit to drink.

I know of another area in this Province where the bottled water was laid again on the table in the room and the sign said: Don't brush your teeth. Don't use the water the comes out of our tap to brush your teeth.

Madam Speaker, a few years ago, I had the opportunity to represent an organization to go out of this country. I came back and, in less than a week, I became very sick. I ended up having my daughter take me out to the Health Sciences Centre and I had all kinds of tests done and all kinds blood tests done and finally one of the doctors came in and said: Mr. French, have you been anywhere lately? I said: Well, what do you mean, have I been anywhere? He said: Have you been out of the country? I said: Yes, I have been to Puerto Rico. He said: By any chance, you didn't drink the water? Madam Speaker, the first two days I was in that country - I take medication for diabetes - I took the medication with water that came out of the tap. Finally, on the second or third day I actually went out and bought two litres of Diet Pepsi and started to take my medication with Diet Pepsi. The doctor looked at me and said: Mr. French, that is your problem. You may have picked up a bug while you were in this country, because you drank the water.

Now, Madam Speaker, is that what we are coming to in Newfoundland and Labrador. We have in excess of 200 boil orders for drinking water in this Province, which I think is disgraceful, and I think the federal government should become more involved here. The former Premier stood down in the East End of St. John's on the waterfront and watched the bubble, and we all know what the bubble is in the St. John's harbour, coming up. That has to be cured, and I will fight with the federal government for a commitment to fix that, for the federal government's commitment to go in to help to put an end to the sewerage and the condition to the St. John's harbour.

It is very interesting to note that the federal government gave the City of Toronto $500 million to correct sewerage and this type of thing on their harbour in Toronto. What is the difference between Toronto and St. John's, Newfoundland? What is the difference between Toronto and the outports of Newfoundland and Labrador, where people cannot drink the water that flows through their taps? You know, where are we coming from? I believe, Madam Speaker, that this should stop. I believe, federally, there should have been more money put into the infrastructure program, and I believe our own commitment, I think we should have a very serious look at where we get our money, how we get our money and how we spend our money, so that we can also put money into this type of program. I have had calls from all over this Province from residents who are very, very concerned that their community has a boil order for their drinking water, the basic human right. I have also had calls from my own district where people are afraid to get in to take a bath with a three or four or five year old child, to put that child in the bathtub because the water that comes out of the tap is brown. The water that comes out of the tap is almost, Madam Speaker, like sewerage. Is that right, in the year 2001? I don't think so. I think we should have a better commitment, the way our dollars are spent, and this is one area that I believe we should also look at.

As well, under the municipal infrastructure program - and I notice the minister is here now - I know again from my own district that there has been a request submitted to the minister for the paving of gravel roads under the infrastructure program. I know in my own area the number of roads that have to be done, that need to be done and that should be done. I hope at the end of the day my own district does not receive lip service or mere pittance. I hope that our area is certainly carved out for some of this money. I really and truly do not expect to get very much money for repairs and upgrading of roads from Works, Services and Transportation, although I have written a letter concerning a road in my district that has two schools, an awful lot of residents - the area has been built up almost overnight - and the road conditions in that area, with five and six school buses a day traveling back and forth over that particular area, is ridiculous. The road is not wide enough and the conditions of the road are really, really ridiculous. This is something that Works, Services and Transportation should be looking at as well. I can only feel the greatest of sympathy for members in this House, again on both sides, who have massive amounts of gravel roads in their districts. To go out in the spring of this year and cover those roads with calcium chloride does not cut it. That is a poor substitute and a poor excuse for pavement. These people have the right today to drive over something decent. The school children who travel on these buses have the right to drive over something in a decent school bus and on a decent road, in the year 2001.

MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: I believe that. Maybe there are areas in this Province where you need a decent member, I say to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

When we do some of the things that we do - I believe the monies that we spend, or that the government spends, should be spaced around a heck of a lot more, and it should never be determined on where you sit in this House, but should be determined in this House by the amount of needs that you have. I can only talk about my member here.

MR. TULK: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: I hope not.

Again, I can only go back to my friend and colleague here, where he comes from, and I listen to him every year present petitions in this House. I watch people who sit back and think it is a big joke and a big laugh. I watched the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation and the Minister of Finance, the other day, poke fun because this member was standing up presenting a petition on behalf of residents of his area. That is what he was elected to do, Madam Speaker. He knows what he was elected to do. These are things that he was doing for the rights and privileges of the people that he comes into this House to represent.

Madam Speaker, there are lots of things that we should have a look at here. I realized earlier on that I got into the wrong area talking about the Social Services Committee. I got into that early because the minister gave her whole speech and, in actual fact, spent all of her comments and all of her time talking about a department, and departments, that we debated about three days ago. We are into a different department today and these are the ones that I speak on: Municipal and Provincial Affairs; Works, Services and Transportation; Environment; Finance; public service; and Government Services and Lands.

Again, the minister is here today. I had some need, about a week or so ago, to call his department about somebody who had an application in to have their home converted to a bed and breakfast. It was well in excess of a month and this individual had not heard back. There were all kinds of excuses, but still no answers. I called over and got talking to this nice young lady and I said: Madam, if you would let me, why don't you allow me to be the devil's advocate? What happens if this gentleman today, while he is on holidays, heaven forbid, drops dead? Does that mean we stop everything that this man is doing or do we not have somebody in that department who can take this person's application, sit down and look at it, and say: Hey, this man is right you know. There is no need to hang up. This man's application should have been approved two or three weeks ago.

Madam Speaker, I was very fortunate or lucky, I guess, because I got talking to one of the directors. He called me back after I told him the problem my constituent had and he said: Mr. French, you know you are right. There is no reason why that application should sit for another week on that man's desk. That application can be dealt with some time today in this department. I said: Sir, all this gentleman wants is a letter from your department which he can take to the municipality where he lives, present this letter and know that he has the sanction of the government department and that his application will be approved. He said: Mr. French, that letter will be written. By the time we get off the phone that letter will be started. I thanked him very much and called back the gentleman who had called me. He was very happy and very pleased that finally, after a month or so of waiting, his application had now moved forward enough so that he could go ahead and construct the bed and breakfast, which is in a beautiful area of our town. It looks out over Conception Bay; a tremendous spot. This was something that this man was going to use, naturally enough, to supplement his income.

Again, it took in excess of thirty days, and the days were still climbing. The days kept going up and up and we really had nothing to offer this man. I believe that these are areas - if we are going to improve services to people in this Province, and it says: Government Services and Lands; and service, Madam Speaker, is a service. If we are going to provide these services, and good services to people in this Province then things, like I just mentioned, should not take as long and should not go on as long as this was allowed to happen.

These types of things should not happen and I would urge the government in the future not to allow them to happen. I can only say to my friend, the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, that he give due diligence this year when the money is being carved up to be passed around, to tie in with the infrastructure funding so that communities in this Province who have suffered for a long time, and suffered long and hard, can reap the benefits of some of this money because for some of them it is probably the last time that they will have the opportunity to apply for such funding. I do not think that this -

AN HON. MEMBER: That's not true.

MR. FRENCH: It is true, I say to the member. Yes, it certainly is true, that no matter where we sit in this House, we, in every district in this Province - Madam Speaker, I can take you this afternoon, if you are interested, and drive you through parts of my own district and show you raw sewage coming out into the ditches along the side of the road. I can do that with you this afternoon. I can take you to homes in my district where the water they used to drink - they do not drink it anymore. They carry the water now for their small children - where white socks are now brown because of the iron content in the water. I can take you to places in my district and show you, as I am sure other members of this House can, but in 2001 people in this Province should not - like what happened to me when I went to Puerto Rico. We should have the right and privilege to sit down and know that the water we drink is fit for human habitation; and we can drink that water and have no fear of our children, grandchildren or anybody else drinking that water.

I know, Madam Speaker, in your own area, where you come from - I know quite a few people in your area who have the same problems as I talk about this afternoon. I am sure you can agree with most of the things I have said.

I see the Member for Bay of Islands nodding his head. I am sure he can agree with me on some of the things I have said here this afternoon because these are needs, real needs, that need to be addressed. They do not need to be addressed in five years time, they need to be addressed today.

I thank you very much for your time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. REID: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I will make it short. I just want to raise a few points. Some of them have to do with what happened in the House yesterday. It is not that I have a thin skin, and I do not mind people criticizing me, but what bothers me is when they criticize me for something that I did not do or something that I did not say.

Yesterday afternoon, in a debate in the House, I talked about - over the past three, four or five weeks I have constantly asked members opposite and others in the Province what we could or should do with the Board of Directors of FPI. Everybody has come back to me, including the legal advice, and said nothing.

Yesterday in the debate I kept asking and talking about the Opposition who kept changing their mind, one way to the other, back and forth, and that I could not determine where they stood. In that debate I said: I am just as much in the dark today as I was yesterday about it. What I meant was that I am just as much in the dark today about where the Opposition stood on it - and I am still just as much in the dark as to where the Opposition stands on it - as I was then. Having said that, Madam Speaker, the Official Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party, who was either not in the House of Assembly at the time, or certainly never read Hansard, quickly ran off to one of the news media in the Province and stated: Gerry Reid said in the House today that he was just as much in the dark about FPI as he was yesterday.

Madam Speaker, I have a master's degree in Linguistics, which is the study of language. I taught English for seven years. In fact, I co-authored a textbook that has been in use in the Grade 10 curriculum throughout the Province for the past twelve years. The title of the book is Transitions, but it is about argumentation and persuasion. In that it teaches you - and I did a good job at teaching the students that I taught - that there are certain things that you do not do in argumentation and persuasion. One is that you do not take quotes out of context, and you do not used selective omission. The other one is: You do not attack the person; you attack the argument. The Official Leader of the PC Party yesterday broke all three of those. Things that kids in Grade 12, Grade 11, and Grade 10 would not do because they know the difference. He chose to do that and went out to the media last night and said that I admitted that I did not know anything about FPI. That is not true. What really upsets me is the fact that they are trying to use the debate about FPI for their own political good. They are taking cheap political cracks at us. It seems to me that they are far more interested in gaining some political points than they are about the futures of those affected by the FPI takeover of the board last week, and that concerns me, Madam Speaker. It went on again today because they keep asking the same questions: What we are going to do; when are we going to do it? I continue to ask: What do they propose to do? And I still get no answers. Having said that, I have a bit of a tough skin. You have to have one after you get in here for awhile. I must say I did not when I came here. I thought that people played by the rules and they would not do that with you.

Madam Speaker, what really is starting to concern me here now is about what is being said, not only in the House of Assembly by the Opposition, but by others in the Province who know the difference; what is being said about the new Board of Directors of Fishery Products International. We did everything that was in our power to do with regard to the selection of the Board of Directors for FPI. We could not do anything else short of nationalizing the company. The Leader of the PC Party was on record one day saying that we should not do that. Another day he is on saying that we should have. So I do not know where he stands, but legally, we could not interfere with that unless we were going to nationalize the company. Having said that, the fact remains that it is done. We have a new board of directors at FPI, a company that employs a lot of people in this Province; a company that did over $700 million in sales last year and whether that company survives or not will play an important role in this Province.

What is beginning to concern me, Madam Speaker, are the questions that are being raised in this House and the innuendo that has been floated around this Province about the integrity of the new board of directors of that company. Now, whether they like these people or whether they do not like these people, that is their own decision but we should be - and when I say we, I say all of us - very careful what we say about these people because the world listens. As I said, I was quoted yesterday as saying something by an individual who was not sitting in this House at the time that it was said; something that I did not say. As we speak right here, and as I speak right now, this is going into the newsrooms of this Province live. Every word that I say right now is being recorded, if it is wanted to be recorded, in every newsroom in this Province. What I am saying is that we should be very careful over what we say about these individuals because the world is listening.

AN HON. MEMBER: Words are important.

MR. REID: Words are important, and I am sincerely worried that if the integrity of this group - and I do not know these people personally, Madam Speaker. All I know is that eight of them are prominent Newfoundland business people who have done well in the Province, who know a lot of people in this Province. I do not know their political stripe, except for one, the Hon. John Crosbie. We all know that he is Progressive Conservative. I do not know how the rest of these people vote, but we should be very careful about what we say because if we question the integrity of that board and the people - and they were saying that this company is going to be divvied up. It is going to be cast into the air and there are going to be pieces of it picked up in Iceland, pieces in New Zealand, and pieces down in the United States. Madam Speaker, are the shareholders in that company going to continue to leave their money in that company? That concerns me. That concerns me greatly, not necessarily from my point of view. I am the Fisheries Minister, but more importantly, for the people who are employed by that plant.

I am glad, as well, even though the debate which has taken place in this House in the last four or five weeks is probably not one that we wanted to have because I, like a lot of us, do not always like change, but the fact that it is done and the fact that the debate happened makes us all far more aware today of Fishery Products International and the impact that it has on our Province; far more so than we ever have in the past. FPI has been out there and operating well, and there has not been a lot said about it. In fact, Madam Speaker, I would challenge most Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to tell me who was on the last board of directors of FPI, besides Mr. Young. I would challenge them just to think. I am not challenging them; I am asking them to think, who was on the last board of directors of FPI? By raising this debate and the fact that the board of directors changed has made us all more aware of the impact that a company like that has on us. As a result, we will be far more vigilant in looking at what happens with that company than we were before, far more vigilant than any of us. I am not criticizing the Opposition or anybody else; because I think that because the company operated well we just sort of left it alone and said, keep going.

I came to work in here in 1989 with Walter Carter, the then Fisheries Minister, and we had some important questions at the time to ask FPI, and we did. For example, last year in the Province, FPI did approximately $200 million in secondary processing. A large amount of money, $250 million for secondary processing. The unfortunate thing about that - and you probably know because one of the plants is in your district, in Burin. The fish plant in Burin did $50 million in secondary processing, and I commend FPI for having done that; but, what I think about even more is the fact that Burin did $50 million in secondary processing last year but there was $200 million of secondary processing carried out in a plant in Danvers, Massachusetts.

MR. TULK: Where?

MR. REID: Danvers, Massachusetts.

I can remember, in a meeting with FPI back in 1989-1990, when the then minister said: How come we cannot do more of that secondary processing in Newfoundland? The answer at the time was: It is because of the tariff on secondary processed food going into the United States.

You could buy into that, the fact that the Americans were putting a tariff on food coming into the U.S., but since then we have gone through a Free Trade Agreement and today those tariffs do not exist. When I asked an official at FPI - and I did it before this debate came up, before this debate about the board of directors came up - who I do not want to name here today, why we aren't doing more of that secondary processing in Burin or in any other community in Newfoundland and Labrador, the answer at the time was: Gerry, it is too complicated to explain to you now on the telephone. Maybe one of these days we should sit down and have a talk about that. That concerns me, Madam Speaker. I think we have to take a far closer look at what has happened with FPI in the last seventeen years and certainly what will happen to it in the next few years.

The other thing about it is that the Opposition rises every day and tells me that we should protect the marketing arm of FPI. I give you the commitment that we will do everything in our power to protect the marketing arm of FPI. The only problem I have with it is that most of the marketing arm of FPI is also located in the United States and in Montreal. There is very little of the marketing arm of FPI located in this Province. That is another thing that we will be addressing, and that we did address with the current board of FPI when we met with them yesterday. As we speak, there are officials from the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Department of Justice and Executive Council meeting with the new Chairman of FPI to talk about such things.

What I want to say, the other thing, is that FPI is buying and sourcing fish from all of the countries, a number of countries, around the world. All of this fish that is being sourced by FPI is not necessarily processed in Newfoundland and Labrador. It could be, and probably is, being processed in Danvers, Massachusetts, and that concerns me. I read in the paper this morning a comment by Mr. Barratt of Sanford, a fish company in New Zealand, who is now on the board of directors of FPI. He talked about hoki, a white fleshed fish that they buy and market. He said that maybe, with some partnership with his company and FPI, that FPI could be doing some of that product here in this Province. I certainly hope that can happen, because what we need in this Province is employment.

In closing, I would just like to say that we should all be very careful of what we are saying about the board of FPI, because what you say abut the board of FPI is what you say about FPI, and FPI is more than the board. The most concern for us in this House is, FPI are those individuals who work in the plants around this Province. These are the people who we should be concerned about. Any negative impact that might come about as a result of continually harping on the board of directors and the fact that they are acting in concert, and their competition and all of this, none of that is doing the company any good today. Regardless of what we feel or how we feel about the current board of directors, the fact is right now that it is done. There was nothing we could do about it, but we will be vigilant in what this company does. I think right now that we should be very careful about what we say about this board. We should also be very careful about going out and making comments that are not entirely true.

I would also like to say, in closing, that I have continually asked members of the Opposition what their stand on this is. They question me every day, if I am going to do this, that or something else, but I have never heard one suggestion from them as to what we should do. In fact, on the contrary, they flip from one day to the next depending on how they can get that ten second media clip. In saying that, I would like to sit down.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly going to rise today. My full intention today is to use my time in this concurrence debate to speak on some of the heads, as the Minister of Post-Secondary Education did when she rose to speak today. I have a list of a few things I want to cover that pertain to my district but also provincial matters such as education and works, services and transportation, and in a constructive way to put forward some points of view and talk about them in sort of a factual way and also to make suggestions.

Before I go on to that, I am not going to get into an long debate on it because we spoke about it yesterday in private members', it has been in Question Period and, of course, it has been in the media and so on, but it is just one point that I am going to talk to today, and that is one that I would like to hear responded to again; because I do not know, when the minister - of all of the other points, I am just going to deal with one point. The minister has said on a number of occasions now that the Opposition, either inside or outside the House, has been casting aspersions on the new board.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer for everybody. Maybe the minister has some media print or he has some tapes of media where somebody has cast aspersions on the new board. I can speak for myself to this point: I certainly have not. I am going to meet with the new board. We know that it has happened; it is a done deal. We have to move on with it.

I can guarantee you that I have never cast any aspersions or questioned the integrity of anybody on the new board. As far as the rest of my caucus, my colleagues, including anybody on this side of the House, I do not know what they said in print, or if they said that it is taped in media or anywhere like that. All I know, to this point, is that I do not know anybody on this side of the House who has cast aspersions in any way or questioned the integrity of the new board that now presides over FPI. That is the only discussion I want to have on FPI today. That is the only one I am unclear about.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I am going to have to see it or hear it - at least see it in print or hear it on tape - because I have not seen it. I think a lot of times when there are a lot of things happening, that we are uncertain, as far as this debate on FPI, that everybody - and somebody said it right yesterday, maybe it was the Deputy Premier - nobody has a monopoly in this House on how loyal we are as Newfoundlanders in protecting the rights of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and protecting the rights of Newfoundland and Labrador when it pertains to rural Newfoundland. Nobody has that. Nobody is better than the other. We all have concerns about FPI. At the end of the day, the truth is, none of us really know where it is going to end up in four, five or six years from now as we sit in this Legislature, or whoever is sitting here at that time. We really do not know, because the corporate world changes.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) question?

MR. SHELLEY: No, I will permit a question.

The corporate world changes, as it did since FPI was formed, and for the reasons that it did some time ago. I am not going to use my time here today to talk about FPI, because I want to talk about six different issues that I am going to speak about, but just to make a point of that. As far as casting aspersions, to be on the record, nobody in this party on this side of the House has ever cast any aspersions in any form on the new board of directors, or questioned their integrity. I certainly have not; and, if we have, we should not have. I will say that, Mr. Speaker.

I want to continue on, on a few issues that I have decided to talk on today. The first one is on transportation, seeing that it is one of the heads for concurrence debate today and somebody made a notion or a few comments about it earlier. I am just going to deal with some factual things. The minister is here today and he can correct me if I am wrong. I am not 100 per cent sure on all these facts and numbers but I am pretty sure. The point being that transportation - I know people have said to me: Oh, you are getting up on another petition, you are going to do all the same thing over again; because I know it so well. As a matter of fact, one of my own colleagues today reminded me of my district in particular because of the road system we have. I guess that is why I have such an acute understanding of the problems with the road system in the entire Province. The bottom line and the facts are this: this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador today still has some 900 kilometres of unpaved roads. These are roads that were constructed that were never done. I have been trying to get this point across to the minister and to his entire government, and I hope they address it in Cabinet: we have a problem that is not just looming but is now out of control.

The fact is that beside the unpaved roads in this Province we have a combination problem of the old pavement in this Province. That is where the minister is having his trouble, not in the situation with the gravel roads that are left to be done. He knows, when you combine the other problem of the old roads - and he sent me over some information and I appreciate the information.

AN HON. MEMBER: ( Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, probably, but it is also Liberal pavement over the years, back and forth, with the changes and everything. That is all coming up, I say to the minister. We do seriously have a problem, and the minister knows. I know he knows the problem. We have a combination of all these people who are sitting around this Province still driving over a gravel road. We sort of forget about it when we come into this House, but the people who have their child get on the bus every morning and go over that dirt road every single day, they don't forget about it, Mr. Speaker. They don't forget about it.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I am not saying that you do not forget about it, but the people who live in the community are reminded of it on a daily basis.

Mr. Speaker, the biggest problem we have, and the problem that we have to address because it is getting worse - I have described it as a bad credit card getting out of control - this year again the minister has a problem with the gravel roads plus he has the problem of 1,400 kilometres, I think it is 1,468 if I am correct, of pavement that is twenty years or older. Over the next year or two or three, we are going to see a demand like he has this year, which is some $198 million in work that needs to be done as soon as possible, and he is going to see that balloon.

As I mentioned before when I present petitions, when you have $18 million - I am glad there is an increase in it this year. It went from something like $14 million last year; that is what ended up in provincial roads. We ended up at $18 million this year, which was an increase, and the minister said he was looking for a much bigger one. Of course, he did not get it. He did not get as big as what he wanted, I will tell you that.

Like the Member for Twillingate just said, he could take that $18 million and spend it in his own district, and I am sure he could. I tell you, I could spend $18 million in my district and we still would not cover the problem.

We have a problem, Mr. Speaker. It is a problem, and my point in talking about this today is, it is no good every year, whether it be the new minister, the former minister I spoke to last year, or the minister before that, every April rural members especially have to go banging on the door, begging for the crumbs. He knows himself. Sure, he is begging for them himself, for his own district. The minister knows, begging for the crumbs to fight over. It is almost like throwing fish guts on the water and letting the gulls go at it. It is just not there.

This year, I saw some announcements already of something like $400,000 and $800,000. That works out to approximately some - $100,000 usually gets you a kilometre, if everything goes well. That is if you haven't got extra things to do, if the cost of fuel is not rising, if you don't have to do culverts, if you don't have to do more upgrading on the road; but usually on the average it works out to $100,000 a kilometre. That is what it works out to be. So, when you are looking at all this gravel road, you do not have to have a calculator out to figure this out. If you are looking at 900 kilometres of gravel road and you have $18 million to answer that, you are not even going to answer that.

What happens next year when this old pavement, the twenty-year-old pavement, another La Scie Highway, starts cropping up. My point is, until we do a long-term plan - and I agree that this provincial government on its own cannot address that. It has gotten so bad over the years, with different governments, with different administrations in this Province, that over the years, Mr. Speaker, age has played its part on the road system of this Province. In order to address that now, there is only one way. Yes, we can maybe add a few million dollars more from the provincial budget, if we are lucky and things go well, things turn out, but the truth is that will not address the problem. We are going to need federal cooperation in order to bring in a major program, Mr. Speaker.

The point I want to raise today on that: what I think is part of the answer is a federal-provincial agreement. Mr. Speaker, in order to get one of those - and I know the minister has been working on it, and some of his predecessors worked on it, to get a federal-provincial agreement - what are we going to have to give away this time? I mean, we gave away the railway so we could some extra money for roads, to do some work, and some good work has been done but mostly on the major trunk roads and on our provincial Trans-Canada Highway. Then, Mr. Speaker, we had take over the expense of the ferry system in order to do work in Labrador.

My question now is: If the answer is going to be, and we know it is and the minister knows it is, that we are going to have to have a combination of provincial and federal funding in order to address the road problems in this Province, what are we going to have to give up next time? That is what I am worried about in this Province today, Mr. Speaker.

So, Mr. Speaker, the combination of the provincial- federal agreement is the only way to address this problem if we are going to come up with enough money in the Budget to get it down. Because when we look at the $198 million - and that was the last count. I do not know if it has gone up since then, minister. The minister can tell us, maybe, if it has gone up since then, but it was $198 million just a couple of weeks ago, and we got $18 million to address it. So, what happens next year? We have $250 million worth of requests and we have $20 million to address it? It is just like your credit card and the interest on it. The dilapidation of the roads is just like your credit card, it gets worse and worse every year, and in five years from now we are going to have a demand for $300 million and we are going to have $20 million to put into it. So, where are we going to get with that? Where are we going to get it, Mr. Speaker. It is a bad credit card out of control.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of more minutes and I have to raise another issue. That was on transportation. Another issue I want to speak on today - and I have waited to speak on this - is education. The minister spoke about it earlier. There are a lot of things we should make suggestions about, and it is an overall theme, I guess. You have to have a theme or an idea in order to get the ball rolling, insofar as reviving the economy in this Province - and the minister touched on it earlier today - and that is young people remaining in this Province. I believe that one of the biggest single problems of the rebounding economy in this Province is the fact that the young people - I mean people who have graduated. I am talking about the age group between twenty-five and thirty-five years old who have left this Province. Those are the people who are starting families, they are building homes, they are buying cars. These are the people who spend the money, and, Mr. Speaker, they are the ones who are leaving. Until we make policies in this Province, whether it be this government or the next government, until we address the main issue of the younger people, our younger citizens, our young families staying and living in Newfoundland and until we direct policies toward that, I do not believe we will ever rebound the way we should in this Province.

Third, Mr. Speaker, just to make a couple of comments on it, still pertaining to education, our teachers. I decided today to take some time in my debate on concurrence to talk about teachers. I am a former teacher, Mr. Speaker. My wife is still a teacher. I know there are lot of teachers in this House. It is a funny thing, you know, when you see negotiations are starting again now, but then you look at - I am going to do a little comparison for you now, Mr. Speaker. The reason why I do it is because the two, I believe, most criticized professions in this Province, probably in the country, are teachers and politicians. I do not know if I can say I am fortunate enough to have been both. I am fortunate enough to have been both like so many people in this House of Assembly. As negotiations get near now for the settlement with teachers - every time I have seen it, historically over the years, the government of the day, whether they be Tory or Liberal, as they negotiated with teachers, always used the factor in their negotiations that the teachers do not get a lot of public support. They do not, Mr. Speaker, and governments know it and have used it historically in the past.

The first thing we hear, this general criticism of teachers, is: Oh, you know, they only work until three o'clock in the day, they have all the summers off, they don't have anything to do, and they are getting paid a lot of money. Well, Mr. Speaker, until you walk in the shoes or the boots of a teacher and experience it, the same as, until you walk in the shoes of a politician, you do not really understand it. I do understand and I understand it first-hand.

I will always remember a speech Jean Charest gave back some years ago, when he was in this Province, and he spoke about teachers. It is not very often we get a politician talking about teachers in a public forum; not very often at all. I do not know the quote verbatim, but I do remember him saying: We have got to show more respect for our teachers for the simple fact that, when I took my little five-year-old girl to school for the first time, and you give that five-year-old's hand to the teacher, that teacher will influence that young person, probably more than her parents will. In many cases, especially with working families today, Mr. Speaker, that teacher, over the twelve years or so that they are in elementary, primary and high school, will influence that child more than the parents themselves. They will develop morals and principles that will relate to what that teacher is like with them.

I am sure a member anywhere in this House can stand up and talk about a teacher who has influenced him somewhere in his life. I certainly have been influenced by them. As a matter of fact, I attribute teachers, who I had in school, with getting me where I am today, for a lot of reasons. Because at home, with a large family and so on, your parents do not always have the time to do all the things they want to do with you. You spend all that time, from eight-thirty or nine o'clock, in a school.

Here is the point, Mr. Speaker -

MR. SWEENEY: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I am not going to stoop to your level, I say, Minister.

Here is the point: That it is not the nine to three in the classroom that makes the teacher and the importance of teaching, it is after school from three to five or six, which I, as a phys. ed. teacher, did almost every day of the week. Besides that, Mr. Speaker, is the extracurricular and how important that is. It is not the nine to three with the books, the math and the science, but it is on a Saturday when you pack a bunch into a car or a bus and drive for two or three hours for a hockey tournament or a basketball tournament. That is probably the most important part of education. To me, it is. I always believed that. Yes, we want our children to be smart and do good in mathematics and get high marks in biology and get scholarships and so on, but my personal view is that the extracurricular of teachers, what they do after school and what they do on Saturdays and Sundays, adds to the importance of what a teacher can do to mold a person on his principles and morals, which is what gets you through life. You cannot always go back to look for your algebra theorems to get you out of hard situations, you look for what you learned when you were on a road trip, you look for what you learned when you were in a tight situation in a basketball game. That is what you look to, and they do relate to the things that you do in life.

As far as teachers go, Mr. Speaker, and as we start to look at negotiating for teachers this year, and what their value is to us, as a profession, we should never - and we talked about it earlier today, about FPI - cast aspersions on the teaching profession, or call into question their integrity. Are there good teachers and bad? Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. Are there good politicians and bad? Absolutely, Mr. Speaker.. Are there good police and bad? Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. In any profession there are good and bad, but, overall, the teaching profession is probably, not the most, I would not say the most, but it would certainly be clumped in with the top four or five professions that are around us, including our police forces, politicians, teachers. They are probably the most important of the professions that we need in this Province, if we are going to rebound this economy. That is putting a good attitude and a backbone and principles into the teaching profession.

Mr. Speaker, I salute the teachers. I have always been proud to stand publicly anywhere and talk about the teaching profession, because they are the people who are going to mold the next generation of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

Mr. Speaker, teaching and post-secondary is our way to recovery. If we are ever going to recover in this Province, we are going to have to keep that age group of twenty-five to thirty-five in this Province. They are the ones who spend the money. They are the ones who are starting new families, who are buying new cars, and so on.

Mr. Speaker, that is what I wanted to raise a few points on today, instead of talking about what I discussed earlier on FPI. I think those are two good issues.

I will conclude, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to take a few moments this afternoon in this Concurrence debate to respond to some of the issues that have been discussed in the last couple of days of great importance to the Province, in particular in relation to Fishery Products International.

Mr. Speaker, I was there Tuesday morning at the Delta hotel when perhaps 1,500 or more people were there, most of them Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who had a great interest -

AN HON. MEMBER: How were you there?

MR. HARRIS: The hon. member asks how I was there. I was invited to attend the annual meeting of shareholders, as I have been for the past several years, and, as I understand, a number of ministers and other members have been for the last several years. I attended on Tuesday, as I did last year, the year before and the year before that, because I happen to think that Fishery Products International was perhaps the most important corporation in this Province because it represents, not only our historic industry, our raison d'être as a Province, the fishing industry, but also because it was a company that we had every reason, and have every reason, to be proud of, as a company that was built, sustained and developed by the people of this Province; in terms of the beginning to the end, Mr. Speaker, from the catching of the fish to the harvesting of the fish, to the processing of the fish, the marketing of the fish, the research and development that went into designing the products to be sold, the marketing organization, the distribution of the fish and the creation of a company that has withstood -

MR. SWEENEY: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: I asked the member how he was listed on the invitation. Was it Jack Harris, MHA or some other capacity? It might have some relevance on his statement that he is making.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

No point of order.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I think that intervention deserves nothing in response; nothing whatsoever, except to ignore it.

This company, Mr. Speaker - and the hon. member, I suppose, shows his ignorance in not recognizing the political importance and significance of this company. The other day, despite some suggestions that all we had happening was a change of directors - that seems to be the position of the government from the very beginning, when the Premier expressed his lack of interest in asking any questions about what was happening. All was happening was a change in the directors.

That is not the understanding, the feeling and the response of the people who were at that meeting on Tuesday morning, many of whom have spent their entire lives in the fishing industry of Newfoundland and Labrador, either working in the industry as fishermen, plant workers, owners of plants or businesses, or people in the business. Their profound feeling was that they were witnessing the demise of control and operation in this Province of the fishing industry. There were tears in the eyes of long-standing senior Newfoundland businessmen who saw the passage of power, control and influence in our own industry outside of the Province.

Mr. Speaker we can talk all we want about the place of residence of certain directors. We can talk all we want about that. Those who assisted in the transfer of power away from Newfoundland and Labrador of the control of Fishery Products International, they will have to answer for that in their own way by history or otherwise. But they assisted effectively in the takeover of Fishery Products International by its competitors, by interests primarily now controlled by Iceland, New Zealand, and Nova Scotia, outside of this Province. That is something that was a historic moment in this Province and sensed and realized by everybody there. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, not sensed and realized by this government and members opposite. There was a real sense that, once again, we, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians collectively - and that does not only include the government - are once again seeing control of our Province, control of our resources, control of our future go out of our hands.

MR. TULK: Nobody believes that.

MR. HARRIS: Now the minister says: nobody believes that. I do not think that that is true.

MR. TULK: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. HARRIS: If you ask the people of this Province whether people believe that or not, you will find that I am right and he is wrong.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development.

MR. TULK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me say that I did not say that nobody believes that. What I said is: Nobody believes one word that that fellow says about the fisheries.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What the people of Newfoundland and Labrador believe, and know to be true, is that on Tuesday the control and the future of the fishery of Newfoundland and Labrador went out of the hands of the people of this Province. They know that. They understand that and they believe that. If the members opposite do not believe that and do not understand how that works then they have not been exercising their commonsense in understanding of how the world works.

MR. TULK: Those eight Newfoundlanders now, who form the majority of the board, are going to give away Newfoundland (inaudible). How can you make that statement? You might as well -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, as I said a few moments ago, the people who are on that board of directors, whose place of residence happens to be in Newfoundland and Labrador, will have to answer for whatever it is they have done and will do. They will have to answer to history, but most of all, they are going to answer to the people whom they were appointed by, the shareholders of FPI, who are now majority controlled by the Icelanders, the Nova Scotians, the New Zealanders; the competitors of FPI in the industry. That is who they are going to be answering to. That's who elected them.

MR. TULK: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development, on a point of order.

MR. TULK: I raise the point of order because I cannot believe that I am hearing what I am hearing over here.

The hon. gentleman is telling us in this Legislature this evening, that the eight people, the majority on the board - which the act says has to be the case - the eight people from Newfoundland and Labrador are going to sell the people of Newfoundland and Labrador down the drain because they are going to answer to their foreign owners. That is what he said. Is that what he said?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not about to give the deputy Premier a lecture on corporate law.

MR. TULK: I wouldn't take it if you (inaudible).

MR. HARRIS: For all the talk of shareholder democracy that we heard from John Crosbie in the last couple of weeks, what we did not hear was that this is not a democracy as we know it, where one person has one vote. This is a sort of democracy in which you can buy votes; that each share is entitled to one vote.

In fact, when we look at the results of the votes on Tuesday there were 106 shareholders who voted in favor of the Risley board and 1,429 shareholders who voted for the then existing board. Guess who won? Did the 106 shareholders win or did the 1,429 win? The answer is that those 106 shareholders had 82 per cent of the shares. They won because they controlled and own those shares. If that is what they call shareholder democracy it is not the kind of democracy that we have when we go to the polls for an election, or a by-election, and each person is entitled to one vote. Each person who has a share is entitled to one vote per share.

MR. TULK: The eight Newfoundlanders who were there before were okay. The eight Newfoundlanders who are there now are not.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HARRIS: I understand that the government wants to support the new directors and the takeover group. I understand that -

MR. TULK: Don't try to (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HARRIS: (Inaudible) my comments about what every Newfoundlander and Labradorian, save them, seem to know, Mr. Speaker, that what we witnessed on Tuesday was the passing of power and control over our fishery, and a source of pride.

As the Member for Port de Grave said the other day: I sincerely and honestly support exactly what it said. I actually feel the same way. There is a tremendous source of pride in what has been built by the management and the staff, and the fish harvesters and the plant worker, and the researchers and the marketers, put together by the Newfoundland and Labrador Corporation, FPI, and by its directors and managers over the last seventeen years. We are very proud of that. In fact, Mr. Speaker, that was why it was such a target of takeover. That is why it was such a target of interest of its competitors in Iceland, Nova Scotia, and New Zealand, who seen that this was a jewel of a company which was well operated, well financed, very efficient, providing jobs throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, including the Minister of Education's district. Mr. Speaker, we have seen that pass out of the control and management in the interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

This government does not want to acknowledge that because they know they have participated in letting that happen; to their shame. To their shame they have participated in that. I think that all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians feel a sense of loss and a sense of responsibility too, because we have witnessed that pass. I understand why the deputy Premier is upset.

MR. TULK: I am not upset.

MR. HARRIS: I understand why he wants to change the topic. I understand why he wants to talk about something else. He does not want to recognize, acknowledge and accept the fact that he, and his government - as have Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in general, I would have to say - have let this go; have let this happen. Collectively, we have let this happen. I think our Province is the lesser for it, and the pride that we had in that company has somehow been betrayed by letting it go and seeing it taken over by a different group of people. We do not know what is going to happen to it. We cannot predict. We know the government is going to have a much tougher job in keeping some kind of control over the corporate culture of that company. The center of gravity of that company will move. The interests of that company will change. We do not know what will happen but we do know that the way the company had operated in the past and the expectations people had for it, for the future, will be very different under the new leadership.

Mr. Speaker, I think that this government has to take responsibility for that and not say: Well, Vic Young did not ask us to do anything, therefore we did not do anything. This is not Vic Young's company. This is a public purpose, private corporation created by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to act in the interests of Newfoundland and Labrador having some control and say over its fishery. That is what is past, Mr. Speaker. That is what is gone, and it does not matter what kind of spin the government wants to put on it, that has happened and this government has let it happen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will just take a few minutes this evening to take part in this concurrence debate. I will start by saying that this government is totally committed to the environment. It is obvious of course when they created a separate Department of Environment to look after the important role that it plays in the lives of all of us in this Province.

I am certainly pleased to be the Minister of Environment, to oversee such a dynamic staff that we have over there. Very dedicated, very enthusiastic and very professional. I just wanted to say that my main purpose of getting up today, I have noticed on a couple of occasions that my colleague from Conception Bay South has gotten up in this House and he has talked about the unsafe drinking water in this Province. I want to set the record straight, that there is no unsafe drinking water in this Province. In fact, we have good quality water in this Province.

The Member for Ferryland just referred to the boil order that he has in Ferryland. In fact, there are some 240 boil orders in Ferryland, and the reason for that is because of inadequate or no chlorination. The Department of Health advises us that we have to be absolutely safe, as a precautionary measure, to ensure that the quality of water is maintained, that we put a boil order in place for protection purposes only.

I heard the Member for Conception Bay South talk about the brown water. It is not unusual in this Province to have brown water. We have a very high organic content which causes the brownness in the water, but he water is quite safe to drink. When we talk about boil orders, we are talking about 15 per cent of the population that have boil orders in place. He does not talk about the 85 per cent that have no boil orders, Mr. Speaker.

MR. FITZGERALD: Can I ask a question? Does government have any rules or regulations against yellow snow?

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Of course, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Bonavista South wants to distract me from my speech.

I was going to say, when we talk about water, that I know of an individual who they say could turn water into wine. Now, the people on the other side think they have a fella who can walk on water, their new leader, but I guess he has a long ways to go to prove to us that he can walk on water.

The priority of my department is water, good quality water in the Province. In fact, at the First Ministers' Conference on Monday and Tuesday in Winnipeg, Newfoundland was the lead on water. We lead the country in terms of discussions on water and water quality. I am quite pleased to say, when we talk about water and water protection, that we here in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador lead the country with water protection. We have in excess of some 250 protected watersheds, more than anywhere else in the country, and that is a milestone and a challenge that we leave to the rest of the country to catch up.

I know that the Opposition House Leader is pushed for time. I know that he has some important things to get done, but I just wanted to say that there have been some petitions in the House now about bulk water and we, as a government, have made a commitment to take the bulk water issue and to research the facts concerning bulk water; but, I will tell you, what I am impressed about is that my critic, the Member for Bonavista South, has been for the past couple of years telling the people of the Province how drastic it is going to be if you ship bulk water out of the Province. We are going to be ruined, he has been saying. They are going to come in here and take the water from us, without our permission. Now I find out, a couple of years later, after he has spread all this rhetoric around the Province, that he is now saying there may not be any implications under NAFTA. Can you imagine, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: Who said that?

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: That is my hon. critic from St. John's South.

MR. TULK: You have that there on paper.

MR. RALPH WISEMAN: I have it here on paper. He said, even if there are no implications, right?

Now, Mr. Speaker, after spending all this time telling the people of the Province what implications there were on NAFTA, that people were going to come in here and take our water without our permission, he now, two years later, has some doubts about his own facts. In other words, he could not have had any facts. He got up with a lot of rhetoric and now, a few years later, is finding out that his rhetoric is starting to catch up with him.

We have taken the responsible way. We are going to go out and research all the facts, and we will table them here in the House so that everybody can see.

I want to say that the other priority of my department is waste management. We are in the process of working with communities around the Province, to work with them to make a difference in the way that waste is handled in this Province. I must say, I have traveled to a number of districts and was quite impressed with the approach that the federation and municipal leaders are taking in terms of waste management. I will tell you, we are commited to working with municipalities on quality water and on waste management.

I realize that some of the members opposite have commitments in about twenty minutes, so I will allow them the courtesy to meet their commitments and close my debate for now.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I heard the minister make a comment and try to put words in my mouth.

AN HON. MEMBER: A point of privilege.

MR. T. OSBORNE: A point of privilege, thank you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. T. OSBORNE: At no time did I ever say, I will make clear to the minister, that there were no implications, because there are implications. Your federation cousin, David Collenette, and your cousins in Ottawa - there are two ministers in Ottawa, and the Prime Minister, who all agree that there are implications.

I will say today that I am glad the minister is not the Minister of Education, because he obviously cannot read Hansard.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order and no point of privilege.

Is the House ready for the question?

Is it the pleasure of the House to concur in the report of the Government Services Committee?

All those in favour, ‘aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, ‘nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do now adjourn.

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Monday, at 1:30 p.m.